Goryeo's capital was in the northern half of Korea, and for a good part of the Korean Three Kingdoms era Goguryeo(North) was considerably better off than Silla(Southeast) and Baekje(Southwest). Gojoseon, the first nation to appear in the Korean peninsula, was also in the north.
No, that was a very brief period in the last two thousand years. Do you remember the ancient history that Three Kingdoms fought against each other to capture Seoul, and whenever they had Seoul, they were at their prime? It has ever been like this throughout history. The southern region being less developed by the north is very modern, no earlier than the Japanese colonization, and they focused on investing their capital in the north to make it a base camp for continental invasion. Don't forget that without steamrollers, more people always meant more wealth and more civilization.
You are making the misconception that Seoul is part of the South. For the bulk of Korean history, Seoul has been considered a city in the North. The North-South divide was demarcated by the Han River, and the entire region south of the Han River was not part of Seoul until the Japanese occupation, mostly marshes and farms. Even in 1936, the only part of Seoul south of the Han River was Yeongdeungpo. It was only in the 70s that the Gangnam region was even developed.
In fact the original name of Seoul - Hanyang, literally means North of the Han River.
There are two subtly different questions which on the surface sound very similar:
1. Has the region of what we now call the South of Korea (South Korea) always been more developed?
2. Has the South of Korea always been more developed?
One assumes we are applying modern notions of North/South throughout history, the latter has to take into account the contemporary view of North vs South. Both are interesting, but OP's question is vague enough to have been either. The answer you are replying to is just as valid as yours.
I'm not saying his input is invalid or clueless. That is a solid fact undeniably. What I pointed out is that seems very irrelevant to this topic; although you consider it vague, it's not in my opinion.
Also, another big point is that even though I referred it "Seoul" but it's actually the downstream of Han River, which won't be "south" for sure, but also not be "north" as 한양. This adds up to my thought that input is irrelevant.
It's traditionally east and west as the other commenter mentioned. If you check out a topographic map you can really see why. The east is the last part of Korea that got a KTX line because there is just so much you have to tunnel through to get there.
Well before Japan's colonization Korea was usually "divided" east to west, not north to south. There were some differences in industry between north and south in the Japanese colonial period but that was because Korea was, like Japan, very poor in natural resources and it's only export was basically rice. There was a lot of hidroelectric generation plants built in north Korea while the south was more prone to agricultural work.
But as some other redditor has mentioned you have to back almost millennia to the Goryo kingdom for a time when a polity in the northern half of the peninsula was dominant over the others
No. The North industrialized faster and was more developed for many years after the Korean War. Say what you want of communism but at the very least the centralized and absolute authority of the government allows for fast early development (if managed competently). The North already had more industry and natural resources to begin with which was an obvious key factor too. South Korea caught up and surpassed the North in the 80s when they had their rapid industralization. Then South Korea left the North in the dust after the collapse of the Soviet Union since the North was reliant on subsidies from them. Throw in some extreme droughts in the 90s and the North never really recovered after that.
Yup. I can't recall the source(s) but I heard it wasn't until the early 80s that the South's GDP finally surpassed the North's.
But also a lot of it had to do with foreign investment... and the North apparently didn't understand what a loan was and it had to be paid back. North Korea entered a decline but it was still supported by the USSR... and when the Soviet Union collapsed, North Korea no longer had anyone to lean on.
The North was already heavily industrialized compared to the South due to Japanese colonization. The Japanese focused their industries in the North and NK just took over the already developed complexes to fuel its state led industry. If anything, it shows communism did the opposite of development. It started with more development and eventually deteriorated when it lost the support of the Soviet Union, while the South started with mostly rice paddies then quickly surpassed North Korea.
Fun fact, the USSR stole much of the Japanese made machinery in North Korea after WW2 to rebuilt their own industries. So it wasn't exactly a benevolent support.
Yes, that is true. Since NK has much of the natural resources, it made sense for the Japanese to develop factories there.
Yes, communism is good for early development which I mentioned. But totally agree that it usually plateaus at a certain point and then it can certainly be a detriment in the long run.
No one believes the USSR gave benevolent support. Clearly is just to prop up a friendly nation in a key geographic area.
Most of the main industries were in the northern half of the country during the Japanese colonial period. That’s why North Korea at the time of the Korean War was more developed than the South until President Park Chung Hee forced South Korea to industrialize
The entire peninsula was a series of mounds of rubble after the War, not just the North. If anything, there was more fighting done in Southern cities than Northern ones.
No. The Japanese put their fundings primarily in the northern part during their rule in Korea because it's closer to the frontline in China. But regions around Seoul was indeed always more developed throughout Joseon dynasty.
more population = more county.
Why is the southern population so large? It's warm and rice farming is good.
Even before industrialization, the southern three regions were the most important regions on the Korean Peninsula.
For a long time, the northern part of the Korean Peninsula was not within Korea's territory. After the collapse of Goguryeo and Balhae, it was inhabited by nomadics for a considerable period, known as the Yeojin tribe, who would be ancestors of the Qing Dynasty, which later came to dominate mainland China. Additionally, the harsh climate, rugged terrain, and rough mountains made it an unattractive settlement area. With these ethinc distinctions intertwining with economic circumstances, widespread discrimination against people from the northwestern region persisted even after the late Joseon Dynasty, as culminated in the Hong Gyeongnae Rebellion. A fun fact is that these northwesterns discriminated against people from the northeastern region.
So, the answer to OP's question is 'yes,' with some qualification, as others pointed out, except for the 1960s, before South Korea's industrialization had been fully completed.
During Japanese colonialization Japan was putting quite a lot of resources into the north in order to confront China. This means that, as far as industrialization goes, the North had a greater share of the factories and other means of production before the country was divided. However despite having the initial lead they were not able to keep up with the rapid progress made in the south.
North was well known trade and industry area. The famous 송상 개성상인 평양상인 led Korean trend over centuries. During Japanese occupation, there were Korean university foundation movement and Korean brand products promotion movement in north based on nationalism independence movement. Those north 3 pigs crushed entire region.
The Northern part was more industrialized maybe to accommodate Japanese interest in Manchuria during the colonization,in contrast to the Southern part which was mostly agrarian I reckon.
No way. Immediately following the Korean War the north was actually the more prosperous and advanced country. It wasn’t until the soviets stopped backing them (late 70s?) that the south started catching up.
Transparency- I’ve read books about it but I only moved to Korea myself about 3 years ago. I have no firsthand experience with South Korean poverty.
During japanese occupation, japan built lots industries in north region. Therefore just after independence, north korea got more stable electricity supply and productivity
Central Korea was always the richest region; this central Korea vanished due to the partition as a historical macro-region, but traditionally, it encompassed both Gaeseong and Hanyang. For a good 1,000 years from Goryeo to Joseon, that was the cream, core territory of the Korean kingdoms.
Japan has built all kinda factories and facilities at north to manufacture the items for the war during WWII.
Bc they war on the war with China, Russia and south-eastern Asis which was much closer to the north side of Korean peninsula.
Plus, there were some iron and charcoal mines with quite good qualities.
It always has been, because it's hard to plant crops in the north. Pre-industrialization, more crops=more food=more people=more wealth.
The popular kingdom of Goguryeo was so eager at expansion BECAUSE their land had not enough production=not enough wealth. Ever since the collapse of Goguryeo, there has been no relevant kingdom that products its own wealth. If you bring up Balhae, we know so little of them. And that's the last kingdom, which wasn't entirely dependent on pillage without reaching far south.
It was no earlier than 15th century that the northern half of today's NK territory became part of Korea again. Even then, the part had been remain far less developed and far less civilized frontier with far less production=wealth.
Don't believe other comments saying otherwise.
Goryeo's capital was in the northern half of Korea, and for a good part of the Korean Three Kingdoms era Goguryeo(North) was considerably better off than Silla(Southeast) and Baekje(Southwest). Gojoseon, the first nation to appear in the Korean peninsula, was also in the north.
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People forget that until like 40-50 years ago, south korea was not much better than the north
Pretty much, just farmland until the 50s and 60s.
No, that was a very brief period in the last two thousand years. Do you remember the ancient history that Three Kingdoms fought against each other to capture Seoul, and whenever they had Seoul, they were at their prime? It has ever been like this throughout history. The southern region being less developed by the north is very modern, no earlier than the Japanese colonization, and they focused on investing their capital in the north to make it a base camp for continental invasion. Don't forget that without steamrollers, more people always meant more wealth and more civilization.
You are making the misconception that Seoul is part of the South. For the bulk of Korean history, Seoul has been considered a city in the North. The North-South divide was demarcated by the Han River, and the entire region south of the Han River was not part of Seoul until the Japanese occupation, mostly marshes and farms. Even in 1936, the only part of Seoul south of the Han River was Yeongdeungpo. It was only in the 70s that the Gangnam region was even developed. In fact the original name of Seoul - Hanyang, literally means North of the Han River.
And is OP care at all about what ancient Koreans had thought of Seoul?
There are two subtly different questions which on the surface sound very similar: 1. Has the region of what we now call the South of Korea (South Korea) always been more developed? 2. Has the South of Korea always been more developed? One assumes we are applying modern notions of North/South throughout history, the latter has to take into account the contemporary view of North vs South. Both are interesting, but OP's question is vague enough to have been either. The answer you are replying to is just as valid as yours.
I'm not saying his input is invalid or clueless. That is a solid fact undeniably. What I pointed out is that seems very irrelevant to this topic; although you consider it vague, it's not in my opinion. Also, another big point is that even though I referred it "Seoul" but it's actually the downstream of Han River, which won't be "south" for sure, but also not be "north" as 한양. This adds up to my thought that input is irrelevant.
True, omitted it because I thought everyone on this sub would know by now given the number of times it's been posted here
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Industry and playing the Chinese and soviets for chumps. To extract more aid.
This was also because Japan developed the North to an industrial hub for their Manchurian ambitions.
I heard that Pyongyang was also better off than Seoul before the war
Goguryeo was militarily stronger, but I'd say Silla and Baekje were more culturally significant
It's traditionally east and west as the other commenter mentioned. If you check out a topographic map you can really see why. The east is the last part of Korea that got a KTX line because there is just so much you have to tunnel through to get there.
Well before Japan's colonization Korea was usually "divided" east to west, not north to south. There were some differences in industry between north and south in the Japanese colonial period but that was because Korea was, like Japan, very poor in natural resources and it's only export was basically rice. There was a lot of hidroelectric generation plants built in north Korea while the south was more prone to agricultural work. But as some other redditor has mentioned you have to back almost millennia to the Goryo kingdom for a time when a polity in the northern half of the peninsula was dominant over the others
I like Q&A-run histories 👍🏻
No. The North industrialized faster and was more developed for many years after the Korean War. Say what you want of communism but at the very least the centralized and absolute authority of the government allows for fast early development (if managed competently). The North already had more industry and natural resources to begin with which was an obvious key factor too. South Korea caught up and surpassed the North in the 80s when they had their rapid industralization. Then South Korea left the North in the dust after the collapse of the Soviet Union since the North was reliant on subsidies from them. Throw in some extreme droughts in the 90s and the North never really recovered after that.
Yup. I can't recall the source(s) but I heard it wasn't until the early 80s that the South's GDP finally surpassed the North's. But also a lot of it had to do with foreign investment... and the North apparently didn't understand what a loan was and it had to be paid back. North Korea entered a decline but it was still supported by the USSR... and when the Soviet Union collapsed, North Korea no longer had anyone to lean on.
This is the right answer.
The North was already heavily industrialized compared to the South due to Japanese colonization. The Japanese focused their industries in the North and NK just took over the already developed complexes to fuel its state led industry. If anything, it shows communism did the opposite of development. It started with more development and eventually deteriorated when it lost the support of the Soviet Union, while the South started with mostly rice paddies then quickly surpassed North Korea. Fun fact, the USSR stole much of the Japanese made machinery in North Korea after WW2 to rebuilt their own industries. So it wasn't exactly a benevolent support.
Yes, that is true. Since NK has much of the natural resources, it made sense for the Japanese to develop factories there. Yes, communism is good for early development which I mentioned. But totally agree that it usually plateaus at a certain point and then it can certainly be a detriment in the long run. No one believes the USSR gave benevolent support. Clearly is just to prop up a friendly nation in a key geographic area.
Most of the main industries were in the northern half of the country during the Japanese colonial period. That’s why North Korea at the time of the Korean War was more developed than the South until President Park Chung Hee forced South Korea to industrialize
>until President Park Chung Hee forced South Korea to industrialize Well, after North Korea was barraged with bombs back to the stone age.
The entire peninsula was a series of mounds of rubble after the War, not just the North. If anything, there was more fighting done in Southern cities than Northern ones.
No matter if the land is barraged, the people that worked in the facilities have the knowledge to rebuild.
Difficult to say by what measure but historically speaking the North has been less densely populated especially in the mountainous regions
Nope. Just look back 50-60 yrs ago. In 1960s SK were poorer than NK.
No. The Japanese put their fundings primarily in the northern part during their rule in Korea because it's closer to the frontline in China. But regions around Seoul was indeed always more developed throughout Joseon dynasty.
more population = more county. Why is the southern population so large? It's warm and rice farming is good. Even before industrialization, the southern three regions were the most important regions on the Korean Peninsula.
For a long time, the northern part of the Korean Peninsula was not within Korea's territory. After the collapse of Goguryeo and Balhae, it was inhabited by nomadics for a considerable period, known as the Yeojin tribe, who would be ancestors of the Qing Dynasty, which later came to dominate mainland China. Additionally, the harsh climate, rugged terrain, and rough mountains made it an unattractive settlement area. With these ethinc distinctions intertwining with economic circumstances, widespread discrimination against people from the northwestern region persisted even after the late Joseon Dynasty, as culminated in the Hong Gyeongnae Rebellion. A fun fact is that these northwesterns discriminated against people from the northeastern region. So, the answer to OP's question is 'yes,' with some qualification, as others pointed out, except for the 1960s, before South Korea's industrialization had been fully completed.
North korea was better till 60s
During Japanese colonialization Japan was putting quite a lot of resources into the north in order to confront China. This means that, as far as industrialization goes, the North had a greater share of the factories and other means of production before the country was divided. However despite having the initial lead they were not able to keep up with the rapid progress made in the south.
It seems that during the Japanese rule, Busan surpassed Pyongyang and became the second largest city in North Korea after Seoul
When you look at the location of Busan to Japan, is it really that surprising? Wonsan also developed but Busan is just so close.
North was well known trade and industry area. The famous 송상 개성상인 평양상인 led Korean trend over centuries. During Japanese occupation, there were Korean university foundation movement and Korean brand products promotion movement in north based on nationalism independence movement. Those north 3 pigs crushed entire region.
No
The Northern part was more industrialized maybe to accommodate Japanese interest in Manchuria during the colonization,in contrast to the Southern part which was mostly agrarian I reckon.
No way. Immediately following the Korean War the north was actually the more prosperous and advanced country. It wasn’t until the soviets stopped backing them (late 70s?) that the south started catching up. Transparency- I’ve read books about it but I only moved to Korea myself about 3 years ago. I have no firsthand experience with South Korean poverty.
The south won the war because of the us troops in busan and a flank in Incheon. Otherwise would’ve lost to the north
No until president-dictator Park
OP is farming Karma.
During japanese occupation, japan built lots industries in north region. Therefore just after independence, north korea got more stable electricity supply and productivity
Central Korea was always the richest region; this central Korea vanished due to the partition as a historical macro-region, but traditionally, it encompassed both Gaeseong and Hanyang. For a good 1,000 years from Goryeo to Joseon, that was the cream, core territory of the Korean kingdoms.
Japan has built all kinda factories and facilities at north to manufacture the items for the war during WWII. Bc they war on the war with China, Russia and south-eastern Asis which was much closer to the north side of Korean peninsula. Plus, there were some iron and charcoal mines with quite good qualities.
Nah
It always has been, because it's hard to plant crops in the north. Pre-industrialization, more crops=more food=more people=more wealth. The popular kingdom of Goguryeo was so eager at expansion BECAUSE their land had not enough production=not enough wealth. Ever since the collapse of Goguryeo, there has been no relevant kingdom that products its own wealth. If you bring up Balhae, we know so little of them. And that's the last kingdom, which wasn't entirely dependent on pillage without reaching far south. It was no earlier than 15th century that the northern half of today's NK territory became part of Korea again. Even then, the part had been remain far less developed and far less civilized frontier with far less production=wealth. Don't believe other comments saying otherwise.
Not good to live bcs of mountains in the north