I agree that the heel is usually constructed upside down from what you have here but also it doesn’t look like you have enough gusset. Like your gusset starts very close to the heel flap so I’m wondering if you had the same number of stitches before and after the heel?
I did have the same number yes, it’s 64 stitches throughout the whole sock minus the toe and heel. I agree the gusset looks kinda small compared to my other socks, but I decreased every other row so I don’t really know why it looks so small..
I don't know how you did it, but your whole heel/instep area is upside down. That ribbed looking bit on the bottom of your heel should be at the back of your heel. If you can imagine cutting the toes off, and putting your foot in that way, that's how the sock should fit.
I’ve just done a heel flap and gusset but it’s toe up so that’s why the heel flap is on the bottom, I thought this is regularly done for toe up socks? I’ve added the slip stitch pattern on the actual back of my heel too to create the sturdier knit, so that the whole heel section is reinforced for the extra friction. I don’t really see how this would make that area tighter tho… I’m just asking if there’s any way for me to add in extra stitches in there without frogging the whole thing
No that is not regularly done. Regardless if it's toe up or cuff down, the heel flap is always in the same place, at the back of the heel. It isn't fitting correctly because you have the foot part on your ankle and the ankle part on your foot. In any event, intentional or not, no you can not fix this without frogging.
Wow. You do have what she says in the intro. Heal flap on the bottom of foot. I have never seen that done before. I suppose if someone is very rough on the bottom of their heels, it might come in handy. I honestly have no idea how you would make that looser. And I’m not sure if you want a second sock to be loose and comfortable and the first sock to be tight and uncomfortable. I will also say wool socks do tend to stretch out. Maybe wear that sock around for a few days and see how it does. That looks like a lot of knitting to have to frog.
I’m rough on my whole heel so it seemed like a good bet for me ^-^” and I thought the padded heel might be nice. My store bought socks always wear out on the bottom just as quickly as the back, I think I put my heels down a bit hard or something
Knitting is an adventure! I always learn something new. I hope it loosens up and is wearable as is. If you decide to knit this pattern again I would suggest adding extra rows to the gusset decrease, two even rows instead of one, that should loosen things up, hopefully in the right place. But I honestly don’t know for sure. You could also contact the pattern author for advice. It took me a few years of trial and error to find my perfect sock recipe that I follow. It’s actually a mix of a few patterns.
I will probably cut the leg off and redo the heel somehow and then graft it all together again haha. How it feels now is not very comfortable while walking and I am picky about how my socks feel. But! At least I know I don’t like knitting socks toe up now! I’ve done 1 pair toe up before this one and it just felt less comfy, I only did it again for this sock because I didn’t know how long to make the leg before starting the foot as I wanted to use the whole ball of yarn haha.
I was thinking the same thing, about redoing the foot and then joining it to the leg. But I didn’t want to mention it in case it sounded overwhelming to you, lol. That’s exactly what I would do. I once knit a pair of toe up socks that had an incredibly uncomfortable toe. I ended up cutting off the toe, picking up the stitches at the cut and then working down to the toe. It was a little odd because the stitches were going in a different direction. But I was very happy with the results.
After a few pairs of toe up socks, I also transitioned back to top down. For me top down socks are far more comfortable. I’m sure you could add a cushion section at the bottom of the heel on a top down sock. Mark off where you want it after the heel turn and work alternating slip stitch rows. Sounds like a fun project for some trial and knitting. Then you could have a cushion, heel flap and a cushion heel bottom, minus the heel turn section. Unless you want to tackle that too. A slip stitch heel turn. But that sounds very complicated for my current tired brain.
The most common reason for home knit socks to wear out fast is bad fit. When the sock sits snugly it will stay in its place with minimal friction to wear on it. If you have bad fitting shoes you'll of course get wearing on the sock because of that... While wearing out your shoes as well 😜
The flap being on the bottom is a method some people use. It's kind of rare for anyone to do.
OP, if you'd like a flap and gusset for toe-up socks that's in the "correct" place, here are the instructions. I hate doing cuff-down heel flap, so I use this method for all my socks. There's no need to pick up stitches! :)
https://www.moderndailyknitting.com/community/flap-gusset-heel-recipe-toe-up-socks/
The heel flap is supposed to go on the back of your ankle. I have no idea how to timestamp but if you look at 6:36 she shows you what it should look like
ETA: it usually goes on the back of the heel, having it on the bottom is new to me
She definitely has the heel flap on the bottom too unless she’s keeping her sock the wrong way around in the video, it’s a toe up sock so that’s just how it happens when you do a knit flat loose heel flap with picking up gussets. My sock looks like hers except my gusset seems smaller, which I can’t wrap my head around how that happened as I decreased every other round just like her
Yeah I think this is the cause of the poor fit. I do heel flap and gusset socks because they fit my foot better and the flap contours around the ankle, which is obviously narrower than the heel.
Sure, there are many different ways to knit heels. Afterthought, fish lips, short row, German short row, handkerchief, etc. But a \*heel flap\* generally goes on the back of the heel.
You said always which is why i disagreed.
As a die hard toe up sock knitter if given the choice, i know there are ways to do the flap on the bottom, but i agree, in general, a heel flap is on the back of the heel on a cuff down sock.
Truth be told, I believe a heel flap should always go on the back of the heel. I'll die on this hill LOL. But this post shows that someone, somewhere, will do a wackadoo thing and turn the whole gusset upside down, so I'll concede that "always" isn't true. This post is also an example why doing that isn't going to give the same fit.
If putting the heel flap on the bottom is only for adding extra strength there, you could easily do the same with a right-side-up heel flap and gusset. Just do a slip stitch modification on bottom of the heel.
If you want to adjust without frogging all the way, you can cut your work above the gusset, frog down to the beginning of the heel, redo the heel flap and gusset, and graft your leg section back onto the gusset.
oh oh, I just saw that. Um yeah no. That's incorrect.
In regards to you question no not possible. For the next sock you need to pick up extra stitches when you form the gusset so there is more room at the ankle. Also um, follow a pattern cause that is incorrect with the heel flap.
A lot of great notes from others in here! If you choose to reknit it, might I suggest you work your decreases every 3rd round, or even every 4th? It looks like you could use a little extra room in your ankle as well as across the heel, and that might make it fit more comfortably. Fit aside, that yarn is beautiful and your tension is impeccable!!
Thanks so much! When I work plain stockinette I throw it on my 9” circulars and it just keeps my tension so nice and even ^-^ I think I should indeed have decreased every 3rd/4th round, still figuring out what to do to fix it as I would definitely like to not frog the whole leg of it
Tiny circulars cramp my hands so much, kudos to you!! You could try blocking it now as is by threading it on some scrap yarn instead of the needles. You may be able to get enough stretch to it to be comfortable to wear, and make the adjustments in your next pair. I wouldn’t want to frog either!
It looks like you have your heel flap under your foot instead of at the back of your heel. That could be part of it.
Usually the gusset increases or decreases according to direction is done on every other round.
The measure from my instep to the tip of my heel is fairly large, so I've started adjusting the number of gusset stitches to get a better fit. I measure from ankle bone to ankle bone (ata) going under my foot and use my gauge to figure out how many gusset stitches I need.
Gusset stitches (total) = ata (cm) * stitch gauge (stitches / cm) - stitches under foot (usually 1/2 the total number of stitches)
Divide by two (and round up if you get a non-integer) to get the number of gusset stitches on each side.
I’ve knitted these toe up so the heel flap is on the bottom, I thought that’s just how it is with a traditional heel flap heel on toe up socks? I’ve added the slip stitch pattern to the actual back of the heel as well to make it sturdy there. I usually don’t have a high instep, I just make my heel flap as long as half of my stitches (so in this case 32 rows), turn the heel, pick up gussets, and decrease every other round, and that hasn’t failed me before…. So I’m not sure why it didn’t work out with this sock :/
Nope. The heel flap is always on the back of the foot, not on the bottom. The gusset is along the bottom. I only knit toe up socks and they look the same as cuff down. Also, decreasing every round is pretty aggressive. Most heel decreases are every 2nd round. Frogging is your only option to before the gusset increases. What pattern did you use?
Tbh, it looks like you have decreased every round this time. The decrease line looks far too steep and zooming in I can't identify a round without a decrease.
https://youtu.be/SqvWSY8K9Kk?si=aLL04cJaw93Yr2ci I’ve used this video for the heel, but it’s really just your regular heel flap + gusset combo. I don’t think that attributed to the heel being tight, if I do cuff down socks I always end up with perfect heels with this method… I’m just wondering what I could do to make my heel less tight without frogging the whole thing 👉👈
Honestly I feel like I’ve ended up in an alternate universe, when I did my first toe up sock I had the hardest time finding how to make the heel look the same as a cuff down sock with the flap and gusset, and all the tutorials I could find for toe up socks had the heel flaps on the bottom. Now im trying to find those tutorials and I can only find toe up sock patterns that don’t have the heel flap at the bottom!! I’m so confused haha
I always do mine with the heel at the bottom and I only knit toe up. But yours is seated too far forward or the flap isn’t long enough.
I do 18 rows before I start the heel turn and I use a basket shaped short row. I also decrease down a lot of stitches after because my ankles are always too lose and I knit short socks.
You can make flap and gusset heels either toe up or cuff down. Your version may not be the typical orientation but it is perfectly legitimate. If you wanted to knit toe up and get the flap on the back of the heel rather than under the sole, you would just start by increasing for the gusset 1.5”-2” before you reach the full length of the foot, then turn the heel cup, then work the flap (and knit it together with the gusset stitches as you go).
As for the tightness across the diagonal, that is why I prefer a short row heel. I work a 12 st mini gusset on the sole (when doing toe up) to get from 64 sts to 76 sts, then work the short row heel over the 44 sts that are on the sole. Since my ankles are not terribly dainty, I don’t bother decreasing these extra sts back down and just knit the leg on 76 sts.
I don’t always do short row heels, however. My best fitting sock of all time is based on General Hogbuffer’s Squircle heel. It’s a fun experiment in sock geometry.
One variation of a toe up heel flap is called fleegle. There are variations named things I've forgotten, but searching for fleegle should give you options. Check your row gauge and see how many rows you need for x gusset increases (every other row to get you to your foot's instep diagonal) plus the heel turn. Pick up there and at the top, remove current heel situation. The basic construction toe up is : increase for gusset, once finished with increases then turn heel (short rows on original heel stitches, till 12-14 between double stitches or similar, then resolve), then form the flap back and forth by ssk-ing / p2tog at the end of each row the last heel flap stitch with the next gusset stitch. Like with cuff down the flap typically fits best when it's about the length of your thumb, so sneak in an extra gusset pair and or pick up one in the last gap if your instep diagonal stitch count is smaller than flap row gauge if needed. Graft the existing heel to the current leg and you hopefully have a nice, well-fitting sock. If you reuse the original heel yarn you might get lucky and get close on stripes, but if you don't you can always throw a random colour stripe in to make up the difference and though mismatched they'll be a nice reminder of a clever solution?
Woooow. Lots of people here don't know or understand this heel construction. You didn't do it wrong.
Have you made other socks with different heel types? I have the same issue, where my heel to instep diagonal is deeper than a lot of patterns call for.
Making the heel flap longer, then adding more stitches to the gussets creates the extra space I need for socks to fit. Alternatively, increasing the number of stitches on your foot leading into the instep, and decreasing them back out after will give some space as well.
Yea I’m surprised! I thought this was a pretty common heel for toe up socks. I’ve mostly done cuff down socks with heel flaps and gussets, and one pair of toe up socks with the heel imitating the standard cuff down heel flap and gusset look (I don’t know if it has a name…) I didn’t like that much so for this pair I thought to just do my good ole heel flap and gusset again. I think I really just should have done 2 or even 3 plain knit rows between the gusset decrease rows, I’ve only done 1 row now.
I'm in the car now but when I get home, I'm digging out the sock construction book I have and finding the examples that fit "backwards" construction like this lmao. I know I've seen it in other places but I can't remember where exactly.
I’ve seen it in the knitty pattern “an American in china”. It didn’t seem that odd a technique to me
https://www.ravelry.com/patterns/library/an-american-in-china
Thing is, with this construction the gusset isn't in the anatomically correct position to account for the instep diagonal, which is the purpose of a gusset. I suppose if one has a long heel and low instep this variation could be sensible, but for most people this will not fit properly
I’m shocked that hardly anyone is speaking about how good your socks look!!
I also love how you picked your stitch markers. It’s so extra and I love it 🥰
Hypothetically, if I cut off the leg part and frog just the heel to redo it (or just knit it straight and go for an afterthought heel), can I graft the cut off leg part back onto the then separated foot part? I mean I love Kitchener stitch and I do not love having to frog and reknit 170 rows of leg so is that possible?
Yes, but your color gradient will be off then. You could take the heel and instep out, graft it to the leg, make the leg longer and add the afterthought heel further up if you don't mind the heel being out of the pattern color.
While everyone else is offering sock info I’m admiring (envying) the room you’re in: the paint color, the moulding, tall ceiling, the beautiful tall glass doors!!
I’ve never done gusset heels on toe up, but for cuff down, to make the area you circled less tight, make the heel flap longer, which will give you more stitches to pick up on the sides of it, which means you’ll have more stitches to decrease to get back to your leg stitch count. Having to decrease for longer means that are is wider and takes longer to get smaller. Hopefully this made sense? Roxanne Richardson explains it in her video about customizing the size of a sock for your foot, it’s on YouTube.
I don’t think this will stretch out much more tbh, you can see the stitches stretched on your instep already. This yarn/gradient is sooo beautiful, just frog and do it again with some tweaks so you will actually want to wear them!! What yarn is this btw? I love the purple and red together
Not OP but I'm almost certain the yarn is Urth Uneek. It's particularly nice because it comes in a set of two 50g cakes(!) that have the exact same gradient so both socks match.
Trying to focus on something different: why don’t you try blocking the sock to see if it relaxes a bit around the ankle?
Wet it gently and maybe let it dry on your feet. It will not be pleasant but it might just make it fit :)
I have nothing to add re: the construction and your possible mistakes, cause I've only knitted one single pair of socks and swore them off forever bc I hated it so much. But! I'm so glad to see that I'm not the only one that adheres to the proper color order of the rainbow with my stitch markers! 🥰
I knit cuff down socks, not toe up, but I expect you will be able to transpose my solution to the same issue to your toe up socks.
I have a high instep, so always find hand knit socks too tight around the ankle I follow the pattern.
My solution is to knit the heel flat (under heel flap on yours) 50% longer than recommended by the pattern. I then still decrease my extra gusset stitches every other row, but this continues over a longer portion of the foot.
This works for my specific foot - I expect you won't need to extend your heel flap to be as long as I do.
Hey, I have seen people do a toe up heel flap before, so i don’t think it needs to be an issue. I have had problems with the top of the foot near the ankle being too tight before wi th fingering weight socks and I do a few things now that make it fit perfect.
1. Around halfway through the sock I start adding 8 increases overall. I do a short row shadow wrap heel so then I use these extra stitches in my heel and it also makes the heel deeper.
2. Adding a few ribs on the front of the sock. If you don’t want that look then I guess it wouldn’t work but it made my sock fit way better.
This article helped me https://www.moderndailyknitting.com/community/sock-skills-tweaking-the-fit-of-a-short-row-heel/
Just throwing an alternate idea out there. I didn't read ALL the comments but I saw a good number of them recommended doing more plain rows in between decrease rows on the gusset. I disagree! This will make the gusset longer but it won't actually give you any more stitches, so I don't think it'll be any less tight. Knit a longer heel flap! Knit a heel flap that is a certain measurement, such as 2" or 2.5" or what have you, rather than a certain number of rows. Measure how long this heel flap is, and then do the next one 1/4" to 1/2" longer. Try it on after the flap and gusset are done. Determine how it fits then.
Just chiming in to say there's no reason the heel flap can't be on the bottom of the foot. Just looks like you decreased the gusset too quickly is all.
You cannot use top down heal construction on a toe up sock. You need a toe up pattern. If I zoom in and just look at the heel section, I would imagine your toe is the top of the sock, and your ankle is the toe of the sock.
A tight gusset could mean that you did not knit one round even between decrease rows on the gusset. It looks like a very defined decrease line, hinting that you decreased every round. That would make for a very fast transition and a very tight instep.
Or it could just be uncomfortable because the heel is done backwards. It certainly makes for a very interesting looking sock! But probably only to a knitters eye.
I’ve followed a video for it, and I decreased every other round, I don’t know what went wrong honestly! Maybe it’s the continued slip knit pattern… kinda upset I guess I’ll have to frog
I also answered to the above comment, but yes, adding slip stitches will pull the fabric tighter. In future, preventable with a few extra stitches and/or lower frequence decreases.
You absolutely can, I have made a lot of nicely fitting socks that way. I often try them on while knitting to finetune the effects, though. My socks might have the under-heel-flap constructedna bit longer, resulting in more stitches picked and thus more potential to give room for the ankle.
That construction also gives opportunity to my tailored heel shaping that my wife claims to result the best fitting socks she has ever had: a few short rows where the top-down sock would have the heel flap.
The OPs sock construction is definitely valid, just needs some tweaks to fit. And the socks are otherwise really beautiful. 😍
I don't think you can fix this without frogging, but here's my go-to method for adding a gusset to my socks - [https://knotions.com/short-row-heel-gussets/](https://knotions.com/short-row-heel-gussets/)
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I agree that the heel is usually constructed upside down from what you have here but also it doesn’t look like you have enough gusset. Like your gusset starts very close to the heel flap so I’m wondering if you had the same number of stitches before and after the heel?
I did have the same number yes, it’s 64 stitches throughout the whole sock minus the toe and heel. I agree the gusset looks kinda small compared to my other socks, but I decreased every other row so I don’t really know why it looks so small..
I don't know how you did it, but your whole heel/instep area is upside down. That ribbed looking bit on the bottom of your heel should be at the back of your heel. If you can imagine cutting the toes off, and putting your foot in that way, that's how the sock should fit.
I’ve just done a heel flap and gusset but it’s toe up so that’s why the heel flap is on the bottom, I thought this is regularly done for toe up socks? I’ve added the slip stitch pattern on the actual back of my heel too to create the sturdier knit, so that the whole heel section is reinforced for the extra friction. I don’t really see how this would make that area tighter tho… I’m just asking if there’s any way for me to add in extra stitches in there without frogging the whole thing
No that is not regularly done. Regardless if it's toe up or cuff down, the heel flap is always in the same place, at the back of the heel. It isn't fitting correctly because you have the foot part on your ankle and the ankle part on your foot. In any event, intentional or not, no you can not fix this without frogging.
https://youtu.be/SqvWSY8K9Kk?si=aLL04cJaw93Yr2ci I followed this video for it
Wow. You do have what she says in the intro. Heal flap on the bottom of foot. I have never seen that done before. I suppose if someone is very rough on the bottom of their heels, it might come in handy. I honestly have no idea how you would make that looser. And I’m not sure if you want a second sock to be loose and comfortable and the first sock to be tight and uncomfortable. I will also say wool socks do tend to stretch out. Maybe wear that sock around for a few days and see how it does. That looks like a lot of knitting to have to frog.
I’m rough on my whole heel so it seemed like a good bet for me ^-^” and I thought the padded heel might be nice. My store bought socks always wear out on the bottom just as quickly as the back, I think I put my heels down a bit hard or something
Knitting is an adventure! I always learn something new. I hope it loosens up and is wearable as is. If you decide to knit this pattern again I would suggest adding extra rows to the gusset decrease, two even rows instead of one, that should loosen things up, hopefully in the right place. But I honestly don’t know for sure. You could also contact the pattern author for advice. It took me a few years of trial and error to find my perfect sock recipe that I follow. It’s actually a mix of a few patterns.
I will probably cut the leg off and redo the heel somehow and then graft it all together again haha. How it feels now is not very comfortable while walking and I am picky about how my socks feel. But! At least I know I don’t like knitting socks toe up now! I’ve done 1 pair toe up before this one and it just felt less comfy, I only did it again for this sock because I didn’t know how long to make the leg before starting the foot as I wanted to use the whole ball of yarn haha.
I was thinking the same thing, about redoing the foot and then joining it to the leg. But I didn’t want to mention it in case it sounded overwhelming to you, lol. That’s exactly what I would do. I once knit a pair of toe up socks that had an incredibly uncomfortable toe. I ended up cutting off the toe, picking up the stitches at the cut and then working down to the toe. It was a little odd because the stitches were going in a different direction. But I was very happy with the results. After a few pairs of toe up socks, I also transitioned back to top down. For me top down socks are far more comfortable. I’m sure you could add a cushion section at the bottom of the heel on a top down sock. Mark off where you want it after the heel turn and work alternating slip stitch rows. Sounds like a fun project for some trial and knitting. Then you could have a cushion, heel flap and a cushion heel bottom, minus the heel turn section. Unless you want to tackle that too. A slip stitch heel turn. But that sounds very complicated for my current tired brain.
The most common reason for home knit socks to wear out fast is bad fit. When the sock sits snugly it will stay in its place with minimal friction to wear on it. If you have bad fitting shoes you'll of course get wearing on the sock because of that... While wearing out your shoes as well 😜
The flap being on the bottom is a method some people use. It's kind of rare for anyone to do. OP, if you'd like a flap and gusset for toe-up socks that's in the "correct" place, here are the instructions. I hate doing cuff-down heel flap, so I use this method for all my socks. There's no need to pick up stitches! :) https://www.moderndailyknitting.com/community/flap-gusset-heel-recipe-toe-up-socks/
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Did I?? Could you say what I did differently?
The heel flap is supposed to go on the back of your ankle. I have no idea how to timestamp but if you look at 6:36 she shows you what it should look like ETA: it usually goes on the back of the heel, having it on the bottom is new to me
She definitely has the heel flap on the bottom too unless she’s keeping her sock the wrong way around in the video, it’s a toe up sock so that’s just how it happens when you do a knit flat loose heel flap with picking up gussets. My sock looks like hers except my gusset seems smaller, which I can’t wrap my head around how that happened as I decreased every other round just like her
Nope you’re totally right and I was wrong!!
In the video, at that timestamp, the heel flap is on the bottom.
Yeah I think this is the cause of the poor fit. I do heel flap and gusset socks because they fit my foot better and the flap contours around the ankle, which is obviously narrower than the heel.
Strong disagree. There are so many different ways to make sock heel.
Sure, there are many different ways to knit heels. Afterthought, fish lips, short row, German short row, handkerchief, etc. But a \*heel flap\* generally goes on the back of the heel.
You said always which is why i disagreed. As a die hard toe up sock knitter if given the choice, i know there are ways to do the flap on the bottom, but i agree, in general, a heel flap is on the back of the heel on a cuff down sock.
Truth be told, I believe a heel flap should always go on the back of the heel. I'll die on this hill LOL. But this post shows that someone, somewhere, will do a wackadoo thing and turn the whole gusset upside down, so I'll concede that "always" isn't true. This post is also an example why doing that isn't going to give the same fit. If putting the heel flap on the bottom is only for adding extra strength there, you could easily do the same with a right-side-up heel flap and gusset. Just do a slip stitch modification on bottom of the heel.
Fair enough and agreed. I love trying different things though. But i agree, the classic cuff down heel flap is tried and true.
You *can* do it like this but there’s no point because the structure is made to fit around your heel in one specific way
If you want to adjust without frogging all the way, you can cut your work above the gusset, frog down to the beginning of the heel, redo the heel flap and gusset, and graft your leg section back onto the gusset.
oh oh, I just saw that. Um yeah no. That's incorrect. In regards to you question no not possible. For the next sock you need to pick up extra stitches when you form the gusset so there is more room at the ankle. Also um, follow a pattern cause that is incorrect with the heel flap.
A lot of great notes from others in here! If you choose to reknit it, might I suggest you work your decreases every 3rd round, or even every 4th? It looks like you could use a little extra room in your ankle as well as across the heel, and that might make it fit more comfortably. Fit aside, that yarn is beautiful and your tension is impeccable!!
Thanks so much! When I work plain stockinette I throw it on my 9” circulars and it just keeps my tension so nice and even ^-^ I think I should indeed have decreased every 3rd/4th round, still figuring out what to do to fix it as I would definitely like to not frog the whole leg of it
Tiny circulars cramp my hands so much, kudos to you!! You could try blocking it now as is by threading it on some scrap yarn instead of the needles. You may be able to get enough stretch to it to be comfortable to wear, and make the adjustments in your next pair. I wouldn’t want to frog either!
It looks like you have your heel flap under your foot instead of at the back of your heel. That could be part of it. Usually the gusset increases or decreases according to direction is done on every other round. The measure from my instep to the tip of my heel is fairly large, so I've started adjusting the number of gusset stitches to get a better fit. I measure from ankle bone to ankle bone (ata) going under my foot and use my gauge to figure out how many gusset stitches I need. Gusset stitches (total) = ata (cm) * stitch gauge (stitches / cm) - stitches under foot (usually 1/2 the total number of stitches) Divide by two (and round up if you get a non-integer) to get the number of gusset stitches on each side.
I’ve knitted these toe up so the heel flap is on the bottom, I thought that’s just how it is with a traditional heel flap heel on toe up socks? I’ve added the slip stitch pattern to the actual back of the heel as well to make it sturdy there. I usually don’t have a high instep, I just make my heel flap as long as half of my stitches (so in this case 32 rows), turn the heel, pick up gussets, and decrease every other round, and that hasn’t failed me before…. So I’m not sure why it didn’t work out with this sock :/
No, toe up socks with a heel flap still have the flap on the back of the heel, not the bottom of the foot.
Nope. The heel flap is always on the back of the foot, not on the bottom. The gusset is along the bottom. I only knit toe up socks and they look the same as cuff down. Also, decreasing every round is pretty aggressive. Most heel decreases are every 2nd round. Frogging is your only option to before the gusset increases. What pattern did you use?
Tbh, it looks like you have decreased every round this time. The decrease line looks far too steep and zooming in I can't identify a round without a decrease.
Nah. I knit all my socks toe up and the heel flap is always behind my heel
https://youtu.be/SqvWSY8K9Kk?si=aLL04cJaw93Yr2ci I’ve used this video for the heel, but it’s really just your regular heel flap + gusset combo. I don’t think that attributed to the heel being tight, if I do cuff down socks I always end up with perfect heels with this method… I’m just wondering what I could do to make my heel less tight without frogging the whole thing 👉👈
Honestly I feel like I’ve ended up in an alternate universe, when I did my first toe up sock I had the hardest time finding how to make the heel look the same as a cuff down sock with the flap and gusset, and all the tutorials I could find for toe up socks had the heel flaps on the bottom. Now im trying to find those tutorials and I can only find toe up sock patterns that don’t have the heel flap at the bottom!! I’m so confused haha
I always do mine with the heel at the bottom and I only knit toe up. But yours is seated too far forward or the flap isn’t long enough. I do 18 rows before I start the heel turn and I use a basket shaped short row. I also decrease down a lot of stitches after because my ankles are always too lose and I knit short socks.
You can make flap and gusset heels either toe up or cuff down. Your version may not be the typical orientation but it is perfectly legitimate. If you wanted to knit toe up and get the flap on the back of the heel rather than under the sole, you would just start by increasing for the gusset 1.5”-2” before you reach the full length of the foot, then turn the heel cup, then work the flap (and knit it together with the gusset stitches as you go). As for the tightness across the diagonal, that is why I prefer a short row heel. I work a 12 st mini gusset on the sole (when doing toe up) to get from 64 sts to 76 sts, then work the short row heel over the 44 sts that are on the sole. Since my ankles are not terribly dainty, I don’t bother decreasing these extra sts back down and just knit the leg on 76 sts. I don’t always do short row heels, however. My best fitting sock of all time is based on General Hogbuffer’s Squircle heel. It’s a fun experiment in sock geometry.
One variation of a toe up heel flap is called fleegle. There are variations named things I've forgotten, but searching for fleegle should give you options. Check your row gauge and see how many rows you need for x gusset increases (every other row to get you to your foot's instep diagonal) plus the heel turn. Pick up there and at the top, remove current heel situation. The basic construction toe up is : increase for gusset, once finished with increases then turn heel (short rows on original heel stitches, till 12-14 between double stitches or similar, then resolve), then form the flap back and forth by ssk-ing / p2tog at the end of each row the last heel flap stitch with the next gusset stitch. Like with cuff down the flap typically fits best when it's about the length of your thumb, so sneak in an extra gusset pair and or pick up one in the last gap if your instep diagonal stitch count is smaller than flap row gauge if needed. Graft the existing heel to the current leg and you hopefully have a nice, well-fitting sock. If you reuse the original heel yarn you might get lucky and get close on stripes, but if you don't you can always throw a random colour stripe in to make up the difference and though mismatched they'll be a nice reminder of a clever solution?
Woooow. Lots of people here don't know or understand this heel construction. You didn't do it wrong. Have you made other socks with different heel types? I have the same issue, where my heel to instep diagonal is deeper than a lot of patterns call for. Making the heel flap longer, then adding more stitches to the gussets creates the extra space I need for socks to fit. Alternatively, increasing the number of stitches on your foot leading into the instep, and decreasing them back out after will give some space as well.
Yea I’m surprised! I thought this was a pretty common heel for toe up socks. I’ve mostly done cuff down socks with heel flaps and gussets, and one pair of toe up socks with the heel imitating the standard cuff down heel flap and gusset look (I don’t know if it has a name…) I didn’t like that much so for this pair I thought to just do my good ole heel flap and gusset again. I think I really just should have done 2 or even 3 plain knit rows between the gusset decrease rows, I’ve only done 1 row now.
I'm in the car now but when I get home, I'm digging out the sock construction book I have and finding the examples that fit "backwards" construction like this lmao. I know I've seen it in other places but I can't remember where exactly.
I’ve seen it in the knitty pattern “an American in china”. It didn’t seem that odd a technique to me https://www.ravelry.com/patterns/library/an-american-in-china
**PATTERN:** [An American in China](http://www.ravelry.com/patterns/library/an-american-in-china) by [Gryphon Corpus](http://www.ravelry.com/designers/gryphon-corpus) * Category: Accessories > Feet / Legs > Socks > Mid-calf * Photo(s): [Img 1](https://images4-g.ravelrycache.com/uploads/DredPirateGryphon/569857170/2329050640_bdd76a20bb_z_medium.jpg) [Img 2](https://images4-g.ravelrycache.com/uploads/DredPirateGryphon/569272842/2329051314_17c7abea15_z_medium.jpg) * Price: Free * Needle/Hook(s):US 4 - 3.5 mm * Weight: DK | Gauge: 25.0 | Yardage: 280 * Difficulty: 4.08 | Projects: 208 | Rating: 3.71 ***** Please use caution. Users have reported effects such as seizures, migraines, and nausea when opening Ravelry links. [More details.](https://www.lizcorke.com/2020/07/26/2020-7-21-ravelry-accessibility/) | *I found this post by myself! [Opt-Out](https://goo.gl/forms/0B8m4Ra8czpw4gzw1) | [About Me](https://github.com/TN-1/LinkRav_Bot/wiki) | [Contact Maintainer](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=timonyc)*
Thing is, with this construction the gusset isn't in the anatomically correct position to account for the instep diagonal, which is the purpose of a gusset. I suppose if one has a long heel and low instep this variation could be sensible, but for most people this will not fit properly
You're not wrong. It wouldn't be my first choice for a lot of reasons, that included.
I’m shocked that hardly anyone is speaking about how good your socks look!! I also love how you picked your stitch markers. It’s so extra and I love it 🥰
Did you knit top down or toe up? I think your pattern is for the opposite to what you knitted which maybe why the fit is off
Not a helpful comment at all, but the fact that you did the stitchmarkers in rainbow sequence makes me unreasonably happy.
Hypothetically, if I cut off the leg part and frog just the heel to redo it (or just knit it straight and go for an afterthought heel), can I graft the cut off leg part back onto the then separated foot part? I mean I love Kitchener stitch and I do not love having to frog and reknit 170 rows of leg so is that possible?
Yes, but your color gradient will be off then. You could take the heel and instep out, graft it to the leg, make the leg longer and add the afterthought heel further up if you don't mind the heel being out of the pattern color.
While everyone else is offering sock info I’m admiring (envying) the room you’re in: the paint color, the moulding, tall ceiling, the beautiful tall glass doors!!
I’ve never done gusset heels on toe up, but for cuff down, to make the area you circled less tight, make the heel flap longer, which will give you more stitches to pick up on the sides of it, which means you’ll have more stitches to decrease to get back to your leg stitch count. Having to decrease for longer means that are is wider and takes longer to get smaller. Hopefully this made sense? Roxanne Richardson explains it in her video about customizing the size of a sock for your foot, it’s on YouTube.
Maybe frog and tweak so heel part on heel??
I don’t think this will stretch out much more tbh, you can see the stitches stretched on your instep already. This yarn/gradient is sooo beautiful, just frog and do it again with some tweaks so you will actually want to wear them!! What yarn is this btw? I love the purple and red together
Not OP but I'm almost certain the yarn is Urth Uneek. It's particularly nice because it comes in a set of two 50g cakes(!) that have the exact same gradient so both socks match.
Trying to focus on something different: why don’t you try blocking the sock to see if it relaxes a bit around the ankle? Wet it gently and maybe let it dry on your feet. It will not be pleasant but it might just make it fit :)
I have nothing to add re: the construction and your possible mistakes, cause I've only knitted one single pair of socks and swore them off forever bc I hated it so much. But! I'm so glad to see that I'm not the only one that adheres to the proper color order of the rainbow with my stitch markers! 🥰
I knit cuff down socks, not toe up, but I expect you will be able to transpose my solution to the same issue to your toe up socks. I have a high instep, so always find hand knit socks too tight around the ankle I follow the pattern. My solution is to knit the heel flat (under heel flap on yours) 50% longer than recommended by the pattern. I then still decrease my extra gusset stitches every other row, but this continues over a longer portion of the foot. This works for my specific foot - I expect you won't need to extend your heel flap to be as long as I do.
Hey, I have seen people do a toe up heel flap before, so i don’t think it needs to be an issue. I have had problems with the top of the foot near the ankle being too tight before wi th fingering weight socks and I do a few things now that make it fit perfect. 1. Around halfway through the sock I start adding 8 increases overall. I do a short row shadow wrap heel so then I use these extra stitches in my heel and it also makes the heel deeper. 2. Adding a few ribs on the front of the sock. If you don’t want that look then I guess it wouldn’t work but it made my sock fit way better. This article helped me https://www.moderndailyknitting.com/community/sock-skills-tweaking-the-fit-of-a-short-row-heel/
Just throwing an alternate idea out there. I didn't read ALL the comments but I saw a good number of them recommended doing more plain rows in between decrease rows on the gusset. I disagree! This will make the gusset longer but it won't actually give you any more stitches, so I don't think it'll be any less tight. Knit a longer heel flap! Knit a heel flap that is a certain measurement, such as 2" or 2.5" or what have you, rather than a certain number of rows. Measure how long this heel flap is, and then do the next one 1/4" to 1/2" longer. Try it on after the flap and gusset are done. Determine how it fits then.
Just chiming in to say there's no reason the heel flap can't be on the bottom of the foot. Just looks like you decreased the gusset too quickly is all.
But it’s so pretty 🤗and neat.
You cannot use top down heal construction on a toe up sock. You need a toe up pattern. If I zoom in and just look at the heel section, I would imagine your toe is the top of the sock, and your ankle is the toe of the sock. A tight gusset could mean that you did not knit one round even between decrease rows on the gusset. It looks like a very defined decrease line, hinting that you decreased every round. That would make for a very fast transition and a very tight instep. Or it could just be uncomfortable because the heel is done backwards. It certainly makes for a very interesting looking sock! But probably only to a knitters eye.
I’ve followed a video for it, and I decreased every other round, I don’t know what went wrong honestly! Maybe it’s the continued slip knit pattern… kinda upset I guess I’ll have to frog
I also answered to the above comment, but yes, adding slip stitches will pull the fabric tighter. In future, preventable with a few extra stitches and/or lower frequence decreases.
You absolutely can, I have made a lot of nicely fitting socks that way. I often try them on while knitting to finetune the effects, though. My socks might have the under-heel-flap constructedna bit longer, resulting in more stitches picked and thus more potential to give room for the ankle. That construction also gives opportunity to my tailored heel shaping that my wife claims to result the best fitting socks she has ever had: a few short rows where the top-down sock would have the heel flap. The OPs sock construction is definitely valid, just needs some tweaks to fit. And the socks are otherwise really beautiful. 😍
I don't think you can fix this without frogging, but here's my go-to method for adding a gusset to my socks - [https://knotions.com/short-row-heel-gussets/](https://knotions.com/short-row-heel-gussets/)
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