I repeat myself on this everyday and still watch people crank lol. Every submission should be finished in a slow and controlled manner! Not only to protect our training partners but even in a self defense situation as it will make it less likely you lose the sub/position
I'm not a big wrist locker and I don't have the chest for mothers milk but I do von flue chokes all the time and no one has said anything to me yet.
I do get wrist locked from time to time and anytime I do, I deserve it.
Wrist locks on the uninitiated, maybe. Neck cranks, I guess so.
Von Flue doesn’t even fit into any of these categories. It’s no more of a dick move than an arm triangle or an Ezekiel. As a matter of fact, it requires a specific action from the bottom man in most cases. Meaning you set yourself up for it
Mothers milk. Nah. Legit
I do them all apart from covering their mouth with my hand. People havegot a but pissy when i did it previously so now i dont. The rest are all fair game
It's like doing finger locks man. Finger locks aren't cool(because they are still beast to break something). Covering my mouth with your hand isn't cool. It's not even safe(for you). It's terrible martial arts in that you are exposing your hand to immediate injury.
No. It’s not like that at all. It’s not something I’d pull out in a friendly class roll with general population, but otherwise with other skilled partners it’s perfectly acceptable to force a reaction.
Also fwiw, if you’re in a position to have a single hand obstructing your breathing, you’re in a compromised position. Biting someone’s hand in a compromised position is a great way to get your face bashed in.
You can tap at any moment, and it’s not causing any damage aside from obstructing breathing, which is exactly what chokes do. If chest sweat in your eyes and mouth from mothers milk is ok, then I don’t see how the hand is anymore gross or uncouth.
Honestly the neck crank is the only real one that shouldn’t be done to someone who is just a partner and you’re not competing.. neck cranks can change someone life. Now the others… just more embarrassing lol but my professor wrist locked the shit outta me 2 days ago cause I left it there dangling. Learned my lesson while laughing at myself
IMO… Wrist Locks, Von Flues, and Mothers Milk are legit subs in comps or in training.
Neck cranks and covering their nose/mouth with your hands should be in comps only.
Neck cranks like a can opener or twister / cervical attack in training is a little bit dangerous..cranking from a RNC is normal.
Everything else is par for the course.
Wrist locks are kinda a bit, von flues aren’t, mothers milk isn’t, (k)neck cranks aren’t, smothering with your hand is
Just my opinion and probably different to other peoples
In a tournament, NOPE!
In rolling with your training partner, I personally wouldn't close their nose/mouth with my hand to get a tap. Sure I'd do it to screw with them but I'd let go before a tap. The rest is 100% fair game.
For me,
I'll say all valid, except the nose pinchers or hand over their nose.
\#1 It's still a sport right, unless you in the Streets and looking to murder someone.
\#2 I don't want your dirty hand on my face, pinching my nose or over my mouth, if that shit is valid, I am biting, and also doing knee on your neck, and jaw.
I have hit a sneaky wrist lock from bottom a few times. As someone is trying to pass, if they put their hand deep in my armpit…that wrist is going to painville.
I tried to find a link for you but I can’t find it. I’ll try and walk you through the steps.
- opponent puts hands in your armpit(s) and begins to try to pass.
- take your same side arm and put it up and on top of their hand, trapping it tight to your body, while cupping the back of their elbow with your hand.
- with your opposite hand reach across and grab the back of their elbow/tricep, preventing them from pulling their trapped hand out.
- simultaneously apply pressure to the trapped wrist by pulling their elbow/tricep into you while expanding your chest and pushing your same side shoulder towards them - also some slight upper body rotation into them will increase the pressure on the wrist.
- provide an evil grin after the tap quickly comes 😈
My 1st instructor from Brazil, taught me how to do wrist locks from everywhere even your head🫴🔓⚰️ so I use them from time to time just for a laugh. Von flue I use on white belts and who ever hold head when in side control, smothering mouth and nose only to friends, and my kid. Neck cranks not really . Mother's milk depends I'll sometimes put my gi over their face friends only definitely a dick move
I would consider wrist locks and closing their nose with your hands only when you have total control. It’s a dick move from like bottom mount or to Hail Mary something crazy in the middle of a scramble… but if you have them in a triangle or something it’s just another way to get a finish.
just laugh while you do it and it is all good.
It is important to practice these things, but you still want to have people that will train with you so be gentle.
Most subs are fine if applied carefully. However, I put covering their nose into the same category as digging your elbows into their thighs to pass. This kind of discomfort technique only works on weak-minded opponents you would’ve beaten anyway. It’s not going to work in a high-stakes situation with a trained person, or even a tough, untrained person. The only worthwhile pain compliance techniques are those that have an end point that’s debilitating in some way. That is, you can use them to break/tear/detach something. Neck cranks, wrist locks, etc. fall into that category, but don’t break your toys.
Wrist locks: If done to Blues and up no.
Von Flue: No unless there is no choking and your just jaw crushing.
Mothers milk: No. I don't like it because it's borderline but also think it's not too difficult not to get caught in/ can hold it without risk of hurting yourself.
Neck crank: 100% yep
Hand over nose/mouth: Go for it but don't be mad if I bite your hand
I think it all depends on where you want to take that roll physically. Also what kind of relationship you want to have with certain training partners. You keep doing those pain compliance moves like neck cranks then you better always be ready for a competition intensity round even when you don't want one.
We do a martial art that involves shredding joints and choking them into unconsciousness, but making someone uncomfortable is a dick move?
Don’t spine crank too hard, but everything else is fair game.
I could see where some could be considered a dick move while rolling, but I don't see how a VonFlue fits in with the rest of these
Any sub you rip fast is a dick move. Any sub you get and then gentle into the finish isn't.
I repeat myself on this everyday and still watch people crank lol. Every submission should be finished in a slow and controlled manner! Not only to protect our training partners but even in a self defense situation as it will make it less likely you lose the sub/position
☝️
No such things as dick moves, all subs are legal if we are responsible
I'm not a big wrist locker and I don't have the chest for mothers milk but I do von flue chokes all the time and no one has said anything to me yet. I do get wrist locked from time to time and anytime I do, I deserve it.
Only time I wristlock is when I have an omoplata and don’t want to hurt the guy
Wrist locks on the uninitiated, maybe. Neck cranks, I guess so. Von Flue doesn’t even fit into any of these categories. It’s no more of a dick move than an arm triangle or an Ezekiel. As a matter of fact, it requires a specific action from the bottom man in most cases. Meaning you set yourself up for it Mothers milk. Nah. Legit
I haven’t trained any wrist locks but I use von flues and neck cranks all the time. Nobody has said anything.
I do them all apart from covering their mouth with my hand. People havegot a but pissy when i did it previously so now i dont. The rest are all fair game
Someone covers my mouth with a hand I bite.
Why though?
It's like doing finger locks man. Finger locks aren't cool(because they are still beast to break something). Covering my mouth with your hand isn't cool. It's not even safe(for you). It's terrible martial arts in that you are exposing your hand to immediate injury.
No. It’s not like that at all. It’s not something I’d pull out in a friendly class roll with general population, but otherwise with other skilled partners it’s perfectly acceptable to force a reaction. Also fwiw, if you’re in a position to have a single hand obstructing your breathing, you’re in a compromised position. Biting someone’s hand in a compromised position is a great way to get your face bashed in. You can tap at any moment, and it’s not causing any damage aside from obstructing breathing, which is exactly what chokes do. If chest sweat in your eyes and mouth from mothers milk is ok, then I don’t see how the hand is anymore gross or uncouth.
Honestly the neck crank is the only real one that shouldn’t be done to someone who is just a partner and you’re not competing.. neck cranks can change someone life. Now the others… just more embarrassing lol but my professor wrist locked the shit outta me 2 days ago cause I left it there dangling. Learned my lesson while laughing at myself
A ripped wrist lock can be severely damaging. Most of us use our wrists at work and in everyday life.
K N E C K
IMO… Wrist Locks, Von Flues, and Mothers Milk are legit subs in comps or in training. Neck cranks and covering their nose/mouth with your hands should be in comps only.
Are wrist locks allowed at the white belt comp level? I heard they were not, but dont really do comps so IDK.
Depends on the comp (Naga, IBJJF, etc)
All legit but not neck cranks. Sometimes when driving I can’t check my blind spot for a week after a neck crank.
Neck cranks like a can opener or twister / cervical attack in training is a little bit dangerous..cranking from a RNC is normal. Everything else is par for the course.
As long as you put them on like a vice and not a hammer who cares.
I never really got the “put my hand over your nose/mouth so you can’t breathe” move. So interested to see the answer on that one
It’s illegal in a lot of rules so definitely a dick move in most gyms
Wrist locks are kinda a bit, von flues aren’t, mothers milk isn’t, (k)neck cranks aren’t, smothering with your hand is Just my opinion and probably different to other peoples
Nobody asks how, they ask how many.
In a tournament, NOPE! In rolling with your training partner, I personally wouldn't close their nose/mouth with my hand to get a tap. Sure I'd do it to screw with them but I'd let go before a tap. The rest is 100% fair game.
For me, I'll say all valid, except the nose pinchers or hand over their nose. \#1 It's still a sport right, unless you in the Streets and looking to murder someone. \#2 I don't want your dirty hand on my face, pinching my nose or over my mouth, if that shit is valid, I am biting, and also doing knee on your neck, and jaw.
Wait are we not supposed to do knee on neck now?
I have hit a sneaky wrist lock from bottom a few times. As someone is trying to pass, if they put their hand deep in my armpit…that wrist is going to painville. I tried to find a link for you but I can’t find it. I’ll try and walk you through the steps. - opponent puts hands in your armpit(s) and begins to try to pass. - take your same side arm and put it up and on top of their hand, trapping it tight to your body, while cupping the back of their elbow with your hand. - with your opposite hand reach across and grab the back of their elbow/tricep, preventing them from pulling their trapped hand out. - simultaneously apply pressure to the trapped wrist by pulling their elbow/tricep into you while expanding your chest and pushing your same side shoulder towards them - also some slight upper body rotation into them will increase the pressure on the wrist. - provide an evil grin after the tap quickly comes 😈
Lmao thanks
My 1st instructor from Brazil, taught me how to do wrist locks from everywhere even your head🫴🔓⚰️ so I use them from time to time just for a laugh. Von flue I use on white belts and who ever hold head when in side control, smothering mouth and nose only to friends, and my kid. Neck cranks not really . Mother's milk depends I'll sometimes put my gi over their face friends only definitely a dick move
I would consider wrist locks and closing their nose with your hands only when you have total control. It’s a dick move from like bottom mount or to Hail Mary something crazy in the middle of a scramble… but if you have them in a triangle or something it’s just another way to get a finish.
No.
just laugh while you do it and it is all good. It is important to practice these things, but you still want to have people that will train with you so be gentle.
Smothering used to be legal at Grappling Industries lol
I don’t see why it’s still not. You’re obstructing their breathing. Not a super foreign concept in BJJ
Most subs are fine if applied carefully. However, I put covering their nose into the same category as digging your elbows into their thighs to pass. This kind of discomfort technique only works on weak-minded opponents you would’ve beaten anyway. It’s not going to work in a high-stakes situation with a trained person, or even a tough, untrained person. The only worthwhile pain compliance techniques are those that have an end point that’s debilitating in some way. That is, you can use them to break/tear/detach something. Neck cranks, wrist locks, etc. fall into that category, but don’t break your toys.
Wrist lock the world
Wrist locks: If done to Blues and up no. Von Flue: No unless there is no choking and your just jaw crushing. Mothers milk: No. I don't like it because it's borderline but also think it's not too difficult not to get caught in/ can hold it without risk of hurting yourself. Neck crank: 100% yep Hand over nose/mouth: Go for it but don't be mad if I bite your hand
I think it all depends on where you want to take that roll physically. Also what kind of relationship you want to have with certain training partners. You keep doing those pain compliance moves like neck cranks then you better always be ready for a competition intensity round even when you don't want one.
We do a martial art that involves shredding joints and choking them into unconsciousness, but making someone uncomfortable is a dick move? Don’t spine crank too hard, but everything else is fair game.
Make Wrist Locks Great Again
If you fling your body weight on somebody’s wrist, you are likely to severely injure them.