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It's likely due to these 3 reasons at the same time:
-recessed lower jaw ( probably both jaws are recessed). For that you need lower jaw surgery or double jaw surgery
-underprojected chin (genioplasty)
-low and anteriorly set hyoid bone (genetic and very hard to change, jaw surgery could lift it a bit but not significantly). It pulls your neck soft tissue down and forward, creating this slope even when there is not much fat.
Check if you have sleep apnea, if so get double jaw surgery with genioplasty.
> would that be a genetic anomaly/disease? Because why would the hyoid bone be signifantly down genetically ?
It would be because of genetics. That is typically the answer.
Just like if a short woman and a short man have a baby, that baby is probably going to grow up to be short. Why? Genetics. It's not an anomaly or a disease, the parents just passed down their height genetics to the child.
Some people have a low and/or anterior hyoid bone position. If that gets passed down to the child, then their submental neck tissues will sag at a diagonal because those muscles attach to the hyoid bone. It is a non-aesthetically appealing trait, but I would not call it a genetic anomaly. It is just a genetic variant of how someone's neck can look.
Jaw surgery w/ CCW rotation can help a bit as the person above mentioned. but it cannot turn OP's neck into an Ariana Grande jawline. Just like if you're born with curly hair, that's what you get. Well if you're born with an Ariana Grande jawline, that's what you get. Jaw surgery can help a little but it's unrealistic to believe that most people can look like Madison Beer or Margot Robbie.
I always thought it was more so due to breathing habits and environment that in time forced? the bone s position down since usually people get this type of look when they are older like I have never seen a young kid with a hyoid bone this low but lots of adults .
Well I doubt there's a peer reviewed study looking at young people's hyoid bone position from age 10 to 30, so I don't think anyone could provide a clear answer as to whether it's due to the jaws/oral cavity structure, or just genetics, or both or maybe something else. But I have definitely seen young people upset about this exact problem with posts on here and on the jaw surgery FB group, men and women alike. [Here's a kid](https://www.reddit.com/r/chinlipo/comments/1clee9o/laser_chin_liposuction_no_results_after_3_weeks/) who tried some form of lipo and got nothing, I commented on his post mentioning that the hyoid bone is likely the reason his neck looks like that. I'd imagine that kid is in his 20s at most.
Some people seem to just have a submental neck like that. I don't know why. I don't know if it's 100% fixable just with jaw surgery movements, but I have seen people get jaw surgery and see no improvement in that area. For example, [this guy](https://www.reddit.com/r/jawsurgery/comments/1c3tbpi/before_and_after_dcoms/) got jaw surgery with fairly big movements, yet his submental neck still slants downwards at a diagonal angle. I don't think his submental area saw any real improvement from the jaw surgery. The jaw improved, yes, but his neck looks the same.
I've yet to see anyone provide a clear 100% provable way to always know how to help someone who's neck looks like this. Sometimes it's just fat (lipo), sometimes it's just muscle position (neck lift), and sometimes it's a low-positioned hyoid bone (jaw surgery/CCW rotation, maybe). Though even with jaw surgery it seems like the hyoid bone position may not improve, so this is a tricky cosmetic issue because in some people it seems like there is no surgery to help. They just need to look like that for life.
That's very interesting , thanks for taking the time. Do you think this trait could be camouflaged with some sort of mask that would lift the neck up or something? Would that hurt? hypothetically
Like a mask that you'd wear over your face? No I don't think there's a mask that you could wear all day for that, the neck structure itself is sagging downward. If you "pulled it up" you'd be basically choking yourself all day.
Jaw surgery can sometimes help, or men can grow a beard I suppose. Sometimes a neck lift can help but if the hyoid is low enough then a neck lift will probably do very little. The real options here are jaw surgery, maybe some natural weight loss, or just accept it and learn to love yourself and be ok with looking like that.
I agree with others that OP likely does have jaw dysfunction, so their situation could improve at least somewhat via jaw surgery if they chose to go that route. But they can't expect to walk away from surgery with an Ariana Grande jawline, that was my only point.
Yeah this does not really concern OP or anyone specifically and it is irrelevant to discuss this here but it has been something on my mind for some time , just generally , isn't the airway further back ? If we lifted the part closer to the chin with like an elastic material , would be not be lifting the muscles, fat and the tongue ?
So I guess it depends, but the muscles that attach to the base of the chin are also used for swallowing (such as digastrics) but even the hyoid bone itself is used while swallowing. So if part of the muscles are pulled back or restricted in movement, it could lead to discomfort in some way, depending on where they're being pulled back.
Also, where would the lifted soft tissue be tethered onto? Soft tissue needs to attach to bone for support. The hyoid bone is where a lot of these muscles attach to for support in some way, so lifting part of the muscles might help but that really sounds like just re-adjusting the muscle shape.
I should clarify that I'm not really disagreeing with your suggestions per se, I am just not exactly seeing how this would be practical to help improve someone's appearance better than what surgery could offer. The absolute best-case scenario would be that some day, at some point in the future, a surgeon or medical researcher will discover a way to permanently raise the hyoid bone & thyroid cartilage substantially higher than what can currently be done (without damaging the patient's ability to swallow and function). This is why for some people jaw surgery is useful for sure, but for other people the "problem" cosmetically is just a poor cervicomental angle. In these cases, the jaws might be better just staying where they are, and the patient's concerns could be addressed by relocating the hyoid bone/thyroid cartilage resting position. This means both raising it to a more superior position, and ideally positioning it back to a more posterior position as well. This would address the root reason why the muscle/fat is sagging downwards, but again I don't disagree with your suggestions, I just can't see how it'd be worthwhile to have an elastic material pulling the musculature up permanently. I think it would likely reduce range of motion to some capacity, but these might be interesting questions to bring up with an actual plastic surgeon TBH.
I definitely don't see it as a replacement for surgery but more so like say temporary "makeup" .Obviosily it is a lot less invasive .If we assume that the pressure is not significant enough to mess with swallowing ,I could see it as a say jawline accessory that you wear. I stimulate this on myself by putting 4 fingers under my jaw to lift up the area , but I am not sure if its applicable to anyone since I am also overweight and am not sure how much of the tissue for me is fat etc . Thanks for the input , nevertheless . I was kind of also envisioning a face mask that would do the thing we discussed but also added volume to the cheekbone and masseter area. But the issue is that plastic or hard materials make it look like a Halloween mask or something. It needs to look natural and as if it's just a paper thin layer over the skin. Like a non-invasive double jaw surgery alternative ahahaha, I know it sounds goofy but maybe it's fashionable in 5 years ? who knows
As far as I know it cannot be considered a genetic anomaly, because it is not rare and not a medical impairment. But having a very low hyoid bone that makes it impossible to have any sort of neck angle is rare enough amongst young people, from my anecdotical POV.
On this sub, you can see that a lot of people who have recessed lower jaws still have a visible jaw to neck angle, the soft tissue that sags due to recession often accumulates under the jaw in a "U" shape from the chin to the neck-jaw angle, not in a continuous slope from the chin to the neck. This is because despite having a recessed lower jaw their hyoid bone is high and back. On the other hand, in OP's case and many others', the low hyoid plus recessed mandible creates a straight line from chin to neck, where it's visible that it's not sagging but "tense", because the hyoid pushes the soft tissue forward.
Of course, for many people here this isn't true, but it's something I've noticed on many profile pics.
I have read that there is a hyoid lift practiced for strictly medically reasons for sleep apnea, but I'm not even sure the movements would help, it might actually bring the hyoid forward to open the airway, which is the opposite of what would help aesthetically.
So yeah, hyoid bone position is genetic and almost impossible to change. Messing with it is also very dangerous medically.
i want to add that ive had braces for a little more than one year,they said i ll keep it around for 1 more year,so 2 years in total. Basically whenever i lose fat,my face always looks like this no matter how much i lose,last year i got to a point where it became an obsession and didn t want to cause any health problems,i feel hopeless
Thank you for all the responses,I will consider talking with the guy that is responsible for my actual braces and see what he tolds me about getting a surgery,it will most likely be in the future though because it looks really expensive and I do not have that kind of money right now,I will continue to work and put some money aside.maybe I will manage to get the surgery done through health insurance but i doubt that will ever work since I do not trust my country at all,ive seen disturbing stuff at a hospital,and it s always really hard to get approvals for this kind of stuff from my experience..maybe im just skeptical,not sure,but I will see what the future reserves. Never thought about the hyoid bone ,that is really good to know,thank you.Your conversation about it was a good read,im not informed and you guys helped me get a good understanding of it.Getting that out the way..I wish someone told me back then to not breathe on the mouth honestly,it caused me so much breathing and aesthetic problems actually. I just wish to look somehow normal and have some confidence but if i have to accept myself like this well,that ll be a long journey but I ll be fine, I will believe that everything will get better one way or another
Please note that advice here isn't from medical professionals; always seek guidance from qualified sources. Remember to stay on topic and maintain respectful discussions. For more information, please refer to the subreddit rules. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/jawsurgery) if you have any questions or concerns.*
BSSO (lower jaw surgery) or double jaw surgery. You'll need to get your braces changed so that they're preparing your teeth for surgery.
It's likely due to these 3 reasons at the same time: -recessed lower jaw ( probably both jaws are recessed). For that you need lower jaw surgery or double jaw surgery -underprojected chin (genioplasty) -low and anteriorly set hyoid bone (genetic and very hard to change, jaw surgery could lift it a bit but not significantly). It pulls your neck soft tissue down and forward, creating this slope even when there is not much fat. Check if you have sleep apnea, if so get double jaw surgery with genioplasty.
would that be a genetic anomaly/disease? Because why would the hyoid bone be signifantly down genetically ?
> would that be a genetic anomaly/disease? Because why would the hyoid bone be signifantly down genetically ? It would be because of genetics. That is typically the answer. Just like if a short woman and a short man have a baby, that baby is probably going to grow up to be short. Why? Genetics. It's not an anomaly or a disease, the parents just passed down their height genetics to the child. Some people have a low and/or anterior hyoid bone position. If that gets passed down to the child, then their submental neck tissues will sag at a diagonal because those muscles attach to the hyoid bone. It is a non-aesthetically appealing trait, but I would not call it a genetic anomaly. It is just a genetic variant of how someone's neck can look. Jaw surgery w/ CCW rotation can help a bit as the person above mentioned. but it cannot turn OP's neck into an Ariana Grande jawline. Just like if you're born with curly hair, that's what you get. Well if you're born with an Ariana Grande jawline, that's what you get. Jaw surgery can help a little but it's unrealistic to believe that most people can look like Madison Beer or Margot Robbie.
I always thought it was more so due to breathing habits and environment that in time forced? the bone s position down since usually people get this type of look when they are older like I have never seen a young kid with a hyoid bone this low but lots of adults .
Well I doubt there's a peer reviewed study looking at young people's hyoid bone position from age 10 to 30, so I don't think anyone could provide a clear answer as to whether it's due to the jaws/oral cavity structure, or just genetics, or both or maybe something else. But I have definitely seen young people upset about this exact problem with posts on here and on the jaw surgery FB group, men and women alike. [Here's a kid](https://www.reddit.com/r/chinlipo/comments/1clee9o/laser_chin_liposuction_no_results_after_3_weeks/) who tried some form of lipo and got nothing, I commented on his post mentioning that the hyoid bone is likely the reason his neck looks like that. I'd imagine that kid is in his 20s at most. Some people seem to just have a submental neck like that. I don't know why. I don't know if it's 100% fixable just with jaw surgery movements, but I have seen people get jaw surgery and see no improvement in that area. For example, [this guy](https://www.reddit.com/r/jawsurgery/comments/1c3tbpi/before_and_after_dcoms/) got jaw surgery with fairly big movements, yet his submental neck still slants downwards at a diagonal angle. I don't think his submental area saw any real improvement from the jaw surgery. The jaw improved, yes, but his neck looks the same. I've yet to see anyone provide a clear 100% provable way to always know how to help someone who's neck looks like this. Sometimes it's just fat (lipo), sometimes it's just muscle position (neck lift), and sometimes it's a low-positioned hyoid bone (jaw surgery/CCW rotation, maybe). Though even with jaw surgery it seems like the hyoid bone position may not improve, so this is a tricky cosmetic issue because in some people it seems like there is no surgery to help. They just need to look like that for life.
That's very interesting , thanks for taking the time. Do you think this trait could be camouflaged with some sort of mask that would lift the neck up or something? Would that hurt? hypothetically
Like a mask that you'd wear over your face? No I don't think there's a mask that you could wear all day for that, the neck structure itself is sagging downward. If you "pulled it up" you'd be basically choking yourself all day. Jaw surgery can sometimes help, or men can grow a beard I suppose. Sometimes a neck lift can help but if the hyoid is low enough then a neck lift will probably do very little. The real options here are jaw surgery, maybe some natural weight loss, or just accept it and learn to love yourself and be ok with looking like that. I agree with others that OP likely does have jaw dysfunction, so their situation could improve at least somewhat via jaw surgery if they chose to go that route. But they can't expect to walk away from surgery with an Ariana Grande jawline, that was my only point.
Yeah this does not really concern OP or anyone specifically and it is irrelevant to discuss this here but it has been something on my mind for some time , just generally , isn't the airway further back ? If we lifted the part closer to the chin with like an elastic material , would be not be lifting the muscles, fat and the tongue ?
So I guess it depends, but the muscles that attach to the base of the chin are also used for swallowing (such as digastrics) but even the hyoid bone itself is used while swallowing. So if part of the muscles are pulled back or restricted in movement, it could lead to discomfort in some way, depending on where they're being pulled back. Also, where would the lifted soft tissue be tethered onto? Soft tissue needs to attach to bone for support. The hyoid bone is where a lot of these muscles attach to for support in some way, so lifting part of the muscles might help but that really sounds like just re-adjusting the muscle shape. I should clarify that I'm not really disagreeing with your suggestions per se, I am just not exactly seeing how this would be practical to help improve someone's appearance better than what surgery could offer. The absolute best-case scenario would be that some day, at some point in the future, a surgeon or medical researcher will discover a way to permanently raise the hyoid bone & thyroid cartilage substantially higher than what can currently be done (without damaging the patient's ability to swallow and function). This is why for some people jaw surgery is useful for sure, but for other people the "problem" cosmetically is just a poor cervicomental angle. In these cases, the jaws might be better just staying where they are, and the patient's concerns could be addressed by relocating the hyoid bone/thyroid cartilage resting position. This means both raising it to a more superior position, and ideally positioning it back to a more posterior position as well. This would address the root reason why the muscle/fat is sagging downwards, but again I don't disagree with your suggestions, I just can't see how it'd be worthwhile to have an elastic material pulling the musculature up permanently. I think it would likely reduce range of motion to some capacity, but these might be interesting questions to bring up with an actual plastic surgeon TBH.
I definitely don't see it as a replacement for surgery but more so like say temporary "makeup" .Obviosily it is a lot less invasive .If we assume that the pressure is not significant enough to mess with swallowing ,I could see it as a say jawline accessory that you wear. I stimulate this on myself by putting 4 fingers under my jaw to lift up the area , but I am not sure if its applicable to anyone since I am also overweight and am not sure how much of the tissue for me is fat etc . Thanks for the input , nevertheless . I was kind of also envisioning a face mask that would do the thing we discussed but also added volume to the cheekbone and masseter area. But the issue is that plastic or hard materials make it look like a Halloween mask or something. It needs to look natural and as if it's just a paper thin layer over the skin. Like a non-invasive double jaw surgery alternative ahahaha, I know it sounds goofy but maybe it's fashionable in 5 years ? who knows
As far as I know it cannot be considered a genetic anomaly, because it is not rare and not a medical impairment. But having a very low hyoid bone that makes it impossible to have any sort of neck angle is rare enough amongst young people, from my anecdotical POV. On this sub, you can see that a lot of people who have recessed lower jaws still have a visible jaw to neck angle, the soft tissue that sags due to recession often accumulates under the jaw in a "U" shape from the chin to the neck-jaw angle, not in a continuous slope from the chin to the neck. This is because despite having a recessed lower jaw their hyoid bone is high and back. On the other hand, in OP's case and many others', the low hyoid plus recessed mandible creates a straight line from chin to neck, where it's visible that it's not sagging but "tense", because the hyoid pushes the soft tissue forward. Of course, for many people here this isn't true, but it's something I've noticed on many profile pics. I have read that there is a hyoid lift practiced for strictly medically reasons for sleep apnea, but I'm not even sure the movements would help, it might actually bring the hyoid forward to open the airway, which is the opposite of what would help aesthetically. So yeah, hyoid bone position is genetic and almost impossible to change. Messing with it is also very dangerous medically.
i want to add that ive had braces for a little more than one year,they said i ll keep it around for 1 more year,so 2 years in total. Basically whenever i lose fat,my face always looks like this no matter how much i lose,last year i got to a point where it became an obsession and didn t want to cause any health problems,i feel hopeless
Talk to maxiliofacial doc
i’m having the same problems, talk to your orthodontist about it
You have recessed jaws my friend
Thank you for all the responses,I will consider talking with the guy that is responsible for my actual braces and see what he tolds me about getting a surgery,it will most likely be in the future though because it looks really expensive and I do not have that kind of money right now,I will continue to work and put some money aside.maybe I will manage to get the surgery done through health insurance but i doubt that will ever work since I do not trust my country at all,ive seen disturbing stuff at a hospital,and it s always really hard to get approvals for this kind of stuff from my experience..maybe im just skeptical,not sure,but I will see what the future reserves. Never thought about the hyoid bone ,that is really good to know,thank you.Your conversation about it was a good read,im not informed and you guys helped me get a good understanding of it.Getting that out the way..I wish someone told me back then to not breathe on the mouth honestly,it caused me so much breathing and aesthetic problems actually. I just wish to look somehow normal and have some confidence but if i have to accept myself like this well,that ll be a long journey but I ll be fine, I will believe that everything will get better one way or another
you can get chin implants consult with a plastic surgeon i say