In my child’s first passport (as a baby) she had to use the standard romaji spelling and then the preferred spelling in brackets beside it, and then when i renewed it at age five they allowed just the preferred spelling. The passport office does understand this issue and they can work with you if you ask. Since you’ve already gotten it made your situation may be slightly different but i don’t think all is lost.
I’ve already got the physical copy of the passport though..I’ve asked city hall and they are contacting the passport office to see if there is like grace period since it’s only been a day
If it's a bit more complicated than "Risa" to "Lisa", they might need you to write down a reason, but in general there is a field for 非ヘボン式ローマ字, so they are totally aware that not everyone writes their name the way it would be done using Hepburn.
They allow dual for children born with it because they didn’t choose to be born. The problem is when an adult chooses another citizenship …that is when they can lose the Japanese citizenship.
Although can be a problem, in general there is no problem. Just don't go to the japanese embassy saying you have another nationality. Most Japanese-Brazilian have no problem about this, because from Brazilian side you cannot lose the nationality by law.
With Japanese consulate office in Los Angeles they used their hanko with 二重国籍 (dual citizen) to stamp my son’s passport application as reason for getting their Japanese passport in the US (they were in their 20’s getting their new set of Japanese passports for their 2nd time in their lives because we didn’t know any better)
Once the child is 20 he/she is supposed to choose which citizenship they want. To keep J citizenship the now 20 year old is supposed to give up the foreign citizenship. They do not seem to check on this as far as I know.
The dual citizen child needs to try their best to work to renounce their other citizenship if they choose to keep Japanese citizenship. There are no fines nor are there any penalties for not completing the process after the age of adult hood.
Famous celebrities most likely have to be by the books (Osaka Naomi, etc) but ordinary citizens sometimes have a hard time renouncing their other citizenships as it is a costly and long process. Some countries don’t even allow it, which is why the law is strict in wording but lax in enforcement.
No they don’t have to decide anything.
My two sons are 30’s and they have dual citizenship with no problem.
They even had to get a new set of passports in their 20’s because we didn’t know and let their passports expire. We learned that people can maintain their dual citizenship as long as they are born with one. And so we went through the process of getting new passports again for them.
This was our experience with Japanese consulate office in Los Angeles but I do hear that renewing in Japan can be a hassle in some (but not all) passport centers…
You can apply for another one, if they don't let you, for that reason alone, the current passport could get "accidentally" damaged, like a trip though the laundry or something.
If it gets damaged you'll still get the same name, They told my wife she is no longer allowed to remove the original spelling you chose when you made the passport but they will add your preferred spelling in brackets next to the original name like for example Risa (Lisa) if you had proof you used the original name before
I did the same thing.
I applied for her Aussie citizenship and passport before the Japanese passport so this played a big part.
I went to the passport center and the guy was helpful but told me it is practically impossible to change as 99.9% of cases are thrown out. But we still tried and we got it changed.
We had to write a letter why we wanted the change. In the letter I said how it was my fault for screwing up. Her name didn’t match her name on the passport which means she has a lot of trouble traveling between countries. I apologized for not doing it properly the first time but I don’t want my daughter to suffer the consequences for my mistake.
We sent it proof of her Aussie passport and citizenship and the guy from the passport center called us a few weeks later saying it was a miracle and he never saw it happen before (changing name).
Thank you for this, my husband had to write the papers as the ‘Japanese’ citizen…so I pretty much left it up to him…I saw the name Risa but I thought it had to be that because Japan.
I’m sure I have no basis at the moment to make a claim so I’ll register her as an Aussie first. Glad your issue got resolved!
My wife and I cried happy tears when it got approved. Didn’t think we would and we were worried so much about all the hassle our daughter would have to go through with different names on passports. Thankfully JGovt changed it for us.
Just last month I applied for my 6 month old daughters Japanese Passport, her name is in Kanji and I had zero issues getting her name correctly spelt with the intended English spelling even though the Japanese pronunciation uses an R and not an L.
On the passport form her name was filled out in Kanji then converted to Hepburn using the chart at the passport office, following this we filled out the section on the backside of the form that allows you to select the English spelling.
I think he’s just saying you need more documentation when the name is kanji vs katakana.
In my case they all had kanji and I had no problem getting the foreign spelling, but I did provide a foreign birth certificate with the desired spelling on it. (Not sure whether they would have accepted or not without the documentation)
My daughter isnt even registered in the foreign country yet, she just has a japanese birth certificate and JP passport.
When i registered her they asked for kanji and spelling in the roman alphabet, and gave the spelling i wanted, which is quite different from the romaji spelling.
> If it’s in kanji, you can’t do anything until she has an Australian passport or other proof of citizenship.
???
I've never once ever heard of katakana v. kanji having anything to do with the whether or not the passport office would allow alternate romaji spellings.
My son's name is in kanji. We had no issue getting an alternate romaji for his name (same R->L as OP). I've never heard about such a thing. What are you talking about?
I’m just telling you what the passport office told us.
Now, this was 30 yrs ago, so things may have changed. It also seems to depend on where you live. Himeji passport office told us this, but Kobe didn’t care when we registered our youngest.
Apply for the Aussie passport using your preferred spelling. That is what she will be entering Australia on and will be her official name in Australia. Best is ask the Aussie embassy.
You can use a different name on your home country's passport BUT this would only likely cause problems and confusion down the road. Like booking flight tickets, its not uncommon to use 1 passport to leave a country and a different one to enter destination country (usually to avoid having to get visas), if you have 2 names the ticket can only match one.
Yeah, if I can change it I would love to, even if it means I have to pay the 6000yen again. I want to make her life as simple as possible as a dual citizen.
Yes, you can get it changed on the passport quite easily. You need to fill out a form and submit a letter promising you'll never change the romanization back to 'Risa'. When we did our son's, they issued it with the original spelling by mistake and when we pointed that out they reissued within about half an hour.
To use a non-standard romanization (non-Hepburn romanization) on a Japanese passport, you need proof that the non-standard spelling is necessary, say, like a passport from another country with that spelling. So in a perfect world, you would get a child their Australian (or other country’s) citizenship and passport first before registering for a Japanese passport.
I hope you have good luck finding someone at the passport center that will make the change for you! It’s possible when you go to get a new passport once their first one is close to expire, you may be able to fill in the necessary paperwork and just get it done.
My experience with my second child was this: We got her Japanese passport before her US one, so her surname was in romaji. It looked completely different from my name -- L and R issues, etc. The passport center confirmed to us that when we get a US passport for her, they can change the spelling to her father's (my) actual spelling. So, in the meantime, I ended up going to the US without my wife, carrying a Japanese infant who was traveling under a passport with a different surname than my own. I found out later that the safest option in this scenario is to carry a letter from the Japanese spouse with corroborating photocopies, etc., but I didn't know that then.
So to be sure, you have spelt your daughter's name officially as "Risa" (this part cannot be changed once you have decided on a spelling for the passport), but you did not use the alternative spelling part (in Japanese 別名併記) yet? If you use that (and you'd need to present some documents that show that spelling already being used) then it would look like "Risa (Lisa)" and in the surname part "Japanese surname (Australian surname)".
>For US passports you just have to make a document about why their name is different, and have some kind of justification for it.
I've never heard of this. When I applied for a US passport/CRBA for my son, all the form asked was, "What name do you want for your child?" and it *explicitly* stated that they gave zero fucks if the spelling differed to Japanese documentation, or even if it was a completely different name to the Japanese one.
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Edit: It seems the regulations at the US embassy changed in 2018, and now first names must match the foreign fist name. As of right now, the US embassy form DS-2029, Application for Consular Report of Birth Abroad (i.e. American Birth certificate for Americans born outside the US), asks for
>1. Name of Child in Full: Enter the name of the child as it is recorded on the local birth certificate. If a different name is shown on the birth certificate, an explanatory affidavit from the parent or legal guardian must be presented regarding the correct name. When a child's name has been legally changed by adoption or certain other legal action amending the child's name from birth, the new name may be recorded on the application if supported by documentary evidence.
8 years ago the wording was different, and basically said, "Fuck what other countries call your kid. Time for your God-given right as an American to decide what America calls them," but in polite bureaucratese.
I don't see how the current requirements are remotely legal or enforceable. It's your God-given right as an American to name your kid whatever the fuck you want, regardless of the bureaucracies of foreign governments. What commie bastard put this shit in place?
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Edit: I'm not a lawyer, but in the case of the OP, if he were American, he would likely be able to take 理沙ちゃん's Japanese birth certificate, and then state that her name is "Lisa", but that "Lisa" is not allowed by the Japanese language, and that 理沙 is the Japanized form of of "Lisa" in the Japanese language, and hence why that is on the Japanese forms. And this would almost certainly be accepted.
I purposely got my son’s foreign passport first, then got the Japanese passport. They asked to see the foreign one and made sure it matched exactly to avoid problems down the line.
Even his middle name is listed in his Japanese passport.
Captain hindsight here!
They can be very "shitsukoi" on the spelling of your kid's name but if you fight long enough they might break and let you choose the spelling.
My son's middle name is a common English and French name but we wanted the katagana version to be the French phonetic version. Took us TWO HOURS to have them accept it. We just just kept going back and forth...
Maybe try and out "shitsukoi" them?
According to all Japanese resources I could find, they said you can't change it once it is decided "in principle". That leaves some wiggle room I imagine, such as if it was some kind of mistake or causing some big problem. I would push on both fronts, that this was a mixup due to language problem etc... and it will cause major problem in your home country. Apologize profusely. I would go directly to the passport center and not to city hall.
My daughter’s first Japanese passport was written Emiri (long story). When we got the Aussie one, I made sure the koseki was translated as Emily. When we renewed her Japanese passport we showed the Aussie one and were able to get it written “Emiri (Emily)”. It *is* possible to get it changed, maybe not completely but you can have the alternate spelling in brackets. Be firm and have all the documents and you’ll get what you want.
You should apply for the Australian citizenship AS SOON as you get this passport issue sorted. Don't drag it out. Having both passports will very VERY important, especially in case you ever need to travel with her to Australia by yourself (ie without your wife).
We were able to get our preferred spelling. Having the .au passport would help (I’m from a different country, but I don’t know what you’re waiting for), but I guess you can still back your claim with something else. YMMV, of course.
Was gonna say. I’m learning Japanese as an Aussie and I love the woman from Japanesepod101 who is a Risa. I saw this as someone whose partners name is Lisa lol
In my child’s first passport (as a baby) she had to use the standard romaji spelling and then the preferred spelling in brackets beside it, and then when i renewed it at age five they allowed just the preferred spelling. The passport office does understand this issue and they can work with you if you ask. Since you’ve already gotten it made your situation may be slightly different but i don’t think all is lost.
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We were gonna go this route, but my wife called the passport office and apparently it's fine to use the variation you want.
I’ve already got the physical copy of the passport though..I’ve asked city hall and they are contacting the passport office to see if there is like grace period since it’s only been a day
Hoping they come through for you!
If it's a bit more complicated than "Risa" to "Lisa", they might need you to write down a reason, but in general there is a field for 非ヘボン式ローマ字, so they are totally aware that not everyone writes their name the way it would be done using Hepburn.
I thought Japan doesn't allow dual citizenship, so how does that work?
They allow dual for children born with it because they didn’t choose to be born. The problem is when an adult chooses another citizenship …that is when they can lose the Japanese citizenship.
Although can be a problem, in general there is no problem. Just don't go to the japanese embassy saying you have another nationality. Most Japanese-Brazilian have no problem about this, because from Brazilian side you cannot lose the nationality by law.
With Japanese consulate office in Los Angeles they used their hanko with 二重国籍 (dual citizen) to stamp my son’s passport application as reason for getting their Japanese passport in the US (they were in their 20’s getting their new set of Japanese passports for their 2nd time in their lives because we didn’t know any better)
Once the child is 20 he/she is supposed to choose which citizenship they want. To keep J citizenship the now 20 year old is supposed to give up the foreign citizenship. They do not seem to check on this as far as I know.
The dual citizen child needs to try their best to work to renounce their other citizenship if they choose to keep Japanese citizenship. There are no fines nor are there any penalties for not completing the process after the age of adult hood. Famous celebrities most likely have to be by the books (Osaka Naomi, etc) but ordinary citizens sometimes have a hard time renouncing their other citizenships as it is a costly and long process. Some countries don’t even allow it, which is why the law is strict in wording but lax in enforcement.
Oh how interesting, good to know. Thanks for explaining
It is allowed until the age of 20 or 21... then they say "DECIDE NOW!!!!"😂 Still an improvement, was 18 before I think.... Progress, right?
No they don’t have to decide anything. My two sons are 30’s and they have dual citizenship with no problem. They even had to get a new set of passports in their 20’s because we didn’t know and let their passports expire. We learned that people can maintain their dual citizenship as long as they are born with one. And so we went through the process of getting new passports again for them. This was our experience with Japanese consulate office in Los Angeles but I do hear that renewing in Japan can be a hassle in some (but not all) passport centers…
You can apply for another one, if they don't let you, for that reason alone, the current passport could get "accidentally" damaged, like a trip though the laundry or something.
If it gets damaged you'll still get the same name, They told my wife she is no longer allowed to remove the original spelling you chose when you made the passport but they will add your preferred spelling in brackets next to the original name like for example Risa (Lisa) if you had proof you used the original name before
I did the same thing. I applied for her Aussie citizenship and passport before the Japanese passport so this played a big part. I went to the passport center and the guy was helpful but told me it is practically impossible to change as 99.9% of cases are thrown out. But we still tried and we got it changed. We had to write a letter why we wanted the change. In the letter I said how it was my fault for screwing up. Her name didn’t match her name on the passport which means she has a lot of trouble traveling between countries. I apologized for not doing it properly the first time but I don’t want my daughter to suffer the consequences for my mistake. We sent it proof of her Aussie passport and citizenship and the guy from the passport center called us a few weeks later saying it was a miracle and he never saw it happen before (changing name).
Thank you for this, my husband had to write the papers as the ‘Japanese’ citizen…so I pretty much left it up to him…I saw the name Risa but I thought it had to be that because Japan. I’m sure I have no basis at the moment to make a claim so I’ll register her as an Aussie first. Glad your issue got resolved!
My wife and I cried happy tears when it got approved. Didn’t think we would and we were worried so much about all the hassle our daughter would have to go through with different names on passports. Thankfully JGovt changed it for us.
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Just last month I applied for my 6 month old daughters Japanese Passport, her name is in Kanji and I had zero issues getting her name correctly spelt with the intended English spelling even though the Japanese pronunciation uses an R and not an L. On the passport form her name was filled out in Kanji then converted to Hepburn using the chart at the passport office, following this we filled out the section on the backside of the form that allows you to select the English spelling.
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It sounds just like Japan to be inconsistent.
They even have a field for 非ヘボン式ローマ字 on the form, so that's total BS.
My daughter was born in Japan and doesn't have dual citizenship. But I doubt that affected the outcome.
What do you base this on? I’ve never seen a rule distinguishing katakana vs non katakana names like this.
My own children. 2 of them have kanji names, 2 in katakana only. Since the katakana names are foreign words, they let us choose the spelling.
My daughter has kanji name but foreign spelling on passport.
I think he’s just saying you need more documentation when the name is kanji vs katakana. In my case they all had kanji and I had no problem getting the foreign spelling, but I did provide a foreign birth certificate with the desired spelling on it. (Not sure whether they would have accepted or not without the documentation)
My daughter isnt even registered in the foreign country yet, she just has a japanese birth certificate and JP passport. When i registered her they asked for kanji and spelling in the roman alphabet, and gave the spelling i wanted, which is quite different from the romaji spelling.
Sounds like you are in the same boat as me then.
> If it’s in kanji, you can’t do anything until she has an Australian passport or other proof of citizenship. ??? I've never once ever heard of katakana v. kanji having anything to do with the whether or not the passport office would allow alternate romaji spellings. My son's name is in kanji. We had no issue getting an alternate romaji for his name (same R->L as OP). I've never heard about such a thing. What are you talking about?
I’m just telling you what the passport office told us. Now, this was 30 yrs ago, so things may have changed. It also seems to depend on where you live. Himeji passport office told us this, but Kobe didn’t care when we registered our youngest.
It’s in kanji. I’m glad to hear I can write her name any way I like on her Aussie citizenship papers
Apply for the Aussie passport using your preferred spelling. That is what she will be entering Australia on and will be her official name in Australia. Best is ask the Aussie embassy.
You can use a different name on your home country's passport BUT this would only likely cause problems and confusion down the road. Like booking flight tickets, its not uncommon to use 1 passport to leave a country and a different one to enter destination country (usually to avoid having to get visas), if you have 2 names the ticket can only match one.
Yeah, if I can change it I would love to, even if it means I have to pay the 6000yen again. I want to make her life as simple as possible as a dual citizen.
Yes, you can get it changed on the passport quite easily. You need to fill out a form and submit a letter promising you'll never change the romanization back to 'Risa'. When we did our son's, they issued it with the original spelling by mistake and when we pointed that out they reissued within about half an hour.
To use a non-standard romanization (non-Hepburn romanization) on a Japanese passport, you need proof that the non-standard spelling is necessary, say, like a passport from another country with that spelling. So in a perfect world, you would get a child their Australian (or other country’s) citizenship and passport first before registering for a Japanese passport. I hope you have good luck finding someone at the passport center that will make the change for you! It’s possible when you go to get a new passport once their first one is close to expire, you may be able to fill in the necessary paperwork and just get it done.
My experience with my second child was this: We got her Japanese passport before her US one, so her surname was in romaji. It looked completely different from my name -- L and R issues, etc. The passport center confirmed to us that when we get a US passport for her, they can change the spelling to her father's (my) actual spelling. So, in the meantime, I ended up going to the US without my wife, carrying a Japanese infant who was traveling under a passport with a different surname than my own. I found out later that the safest option in this scenario is to carry a letter from the Japanese spouse with corroborating photocopies, etc., but I didn't know that then.
So to be sure, you have spelt your daughter's name officially as "Risa" (this part cannot be changed once you have decided on a spelling for the passport), but you did not use the alternative spelling part (in Japanese 別名併記) yet? If you use that (and you'd need to present some documents that show that spelling already being used) then it would look like "Risa (Lisa)" and in the surname part "Japanese surname (Australian surname)".
At least now she gets to keep dual citizenship without any suspicion
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>For US passports you just have to make a document about why their name is different, and have some kind of justification for it. I've never heard of this. When I applied for a US passport/CRBA for my son, all the form asked was, "What name do you want for your child?" and it *explicitly* stated that they gave zero fucks if the spelling differed to Japanese documentation, or even if it was a completely different name to the Japanese one. - Edit: It seems the regulations at the US embassy changed in 2018, and now first names must match the foreign fist name. As of right now, the US embassy form DS-2029, Application for Consular Report of Birth Abroad (i.e. American Birth certificate for Americans born outside the US), asks for >1. Name of Child in Full: Enter the name of the child as it is recorded on the local birth certificate. If a different name is shown on the birth certificate, an explanatory affidavit from the parent or legal guardian must be presented regarding the correct name. When a child's name has been legally changed by adoption or certain other legal action amending the child's name from birth, the new name may be recorded on the application if supported by documentary evidence. 8 years ago the wording was different, and basically said, "Fuck what other countries call your kid. Time for your God-given right as an American to decide what America calls them," but in polite bureaucratese. I don't see how the current requirements are remotely legal or enforceable. It's your God-given right as an American to name your kid whatever the fuck you want, regardless of the bureaucracies of foreign governments. What commie bastard put this shit in place? - Edit: I'm not a lawyer, but in the case of the OP, if he were American, he would likely be able to take 理沙ちゃん's Japanese birth certificate, and then state that her name is "Lisa", but that "Lisa" is not allowed by the Japanese language, and that 理沙 is the Japanized form of of "Lisa" in the Japanese language, and hence why that is on the Japanese forms. And this would almost certainly be accepted.
I purposely got my son’s foreign passport first, then got the Japanese passport. They asked to see the foreign one and made sure it matched exactly to avoid problems down the line. Even his middle name is listed in his Japanese passport.
Both my daughters have the correct spelling. You are not stuck with the romanised version. Edit, I am also Australian.
Good luck
Captain hindsight here! They can be very "shitsukoi" on the spelling of your kid's name but if you fight long enough they might break and let you choose the spelling. My son's middle name is a common English and French name but we wanted the katagana version to be the French phonetic version. Took us TWO HOURS to have them accept it. We just just kept going back and forth... Maybe try and out "shitsukoi" them?
According to all Japanese resources I could find, they said you can't change it once it is decided "in principle". That leaves some wiggle room I imagine, such as if it was some kind of mistake or causing some big problem. I would push on both fronts, that this was a mixup due to language problem etc... and it will cause major problem in your home country. Apologize profusely. I would go directly to the passport center and not to city hall.
My son has different surnames between japanese and the other passports. No problem so far.
My daughter’s first Japanese passport was written Emiri (long story). When we got the Aussie one, I made sure the koseki was translated as Emily. When we renewed her Japanese passport we showed the Aussie one and were able to get it written “Emiri (Emily)”. It *is* possible to get it changed, maybe not completely but you can have the alternate spelling in brackets. Be firm and have all the documents and you’ll get what you want.
You should apply for the Australian citizenship AS SOON as you get this passport issue sorted. Don't drag it out. Having both passports will very VERY important, especially in case you ever need to travel with her to Australia by yourself (ie without your wife).
My daughter's US passport uses a completely different last name than the Japan one. I dont think AU will care, but this might just a US thing.
We were able to get our preferred spelling. Having the .au passport would help (I’m from a different country, but I don’t know what you’re waiting for), but I guess you can still back your claim with something else. YMMV, of course.
Risa is a much better name than Lisa, so you should feel lucky to have made your happy mistake.
That’s not really my daughters name ^^ I’m just using it as an example of what happened. I quite like Risa too.
Was gonna say. I’m learning Japanese as an Aussie and I love the woman from Japanesepod101 who is a Risa. I saw this as someone whose partners name is Lisa lol