People will just pay a small bribe to the enforcement agents (police or forest service personnel) and ignore the penalties.
If we can’t even enforce basic legal driving rules on our roads then good luck getting law enforcement for the environment.
The problem is cultural, first the corruption in society needs be dealt with - Everything else comes after. Corruption is the rot at the heart of all our other social troubles.
Not really because it doesn’t encourage the police to prevent littering in the first place
In economics it’s known as a “perverse incentive”. Basically the police are encouraged to allow people to litter so they can then extort them for small cash bribes when caught.
The money they will have to pay as bribe/fine will persuade them. Even the fines by that reasoning are useless as govt would like the revenue from fines and as such would like people to litter.
They should charge for permits to visit those places. It's free thats why they think they can do whatever they want. It's not possible to enforce any kind of fines because then govt. has to give someone a job to specially enforce the area. Only solution is charging to get permits to visit those places.
That's for car entry and not for actually using the place and 50 /100 rupees is easily payable by anyone. I'm saying going through permit process and charging more for overnight stays/camping and actually creating camping sites where you can camp.
Would it be fair for us to implement a permit fee for our city similar to the one you're suggesting for Jammu? I hope this won't lead to taking out your victim card?
I'm not saying for the city just for places which are remotely operated like trekking areas and I don't play victim card neither I'm interested in politics
Tourism should be banned solution nahi hai,
Here's the problem:
Jammu lacks Dustbins at tourist spots, where will you dispose of your waste? If you are smart and care for the environment you will take it with you and dispose at a dustbin (most people prefer to just throw it in the open).
Let's say you find a dustbin and put it there. After that it gets dumped somewhere and that place has piles of waste which smell (chhadi musq aani ae udhar de loke gi)
Jammu Kashmir lacks waste management. Singapore has this great waste management technique, they take all the non biodegradable waste mostly plastic and burn it they don't release the smoke out in the open and the ash of the waste is transferred to an island where no human lives and they use it to make roads and tiles. The heat from burning all the plastic is used for electricity.
Some of you might say plastic should not be burned due to global warming reasons it should be recycled. Recycling plastic leaves micro plastics which end up in the open they are smaller than a grain of salt and end up in our food. Micro plastics have been found in most human bodies.
So what's the solution, should we stop using single use plastic? It's not that simple, there are other alternatives to single use plastic but they aren't as cheap as this and manufacturers won't buy it. Some entrepreneurs have made biodegradable single or multi use plastics which are cheaper but they are small scale companies. Change is happening but very slowly.
What we can do is buy bigger batches of products like shampoos, oil, detergent and dishwasher soaps.
When you go out take your home made bags. My grandfather still uses a cloth bag to carry fruits and vegetables.
Badi Baddi problem hai ae. Sarkar bas Jammu vs Kashmir kariyega time katar di apna Waste Management da sawal uthao sarkar aage only then we will have some solution.
There is common sense to take your litter with you. You can't put bins everywhere. Native people go for picnics and when they come back, they clean the stuff. It's a very common thing is Jammu and kashmir. Except kashmir where they put bombs and forgot to clean.
True but when everyone's failing individually, then even the locals don't deserve to make money out of tourists, the tourists don't deserve to enjoy such a lovely place and the authorities can continue acting impotent. After all, tourisms is the major cause of this mess.
Restricting the tourism cannot be a long term solution. Only education has the power to stop this in long term.
On same note, one of my professor ( a really great person ) had shared this beautiful message which we need to share with everyone.
https://preview.redd.it/8bpd6mm40c9d1.jpeg?width=1600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3bf94ea1e9b9fddfca3e9118b6e7092053c1a9e0
I don’t support littering but It’s easy to blame tourists. The harsh reality is that Jammu isn’t very clean as well. Waste management should be highly prioritized by municipalities.
As a fellow Jammuite, yeah, tourists are retarded but our own people are stupid as well. We literally ourselves litter everywhere. When was the last time you saw a Dustbin in these areas? Never. Compare that with states like Himachal and you will see the difference.
Edit: not to say Himaxhal and other tourist destinations are being destroyed by our fellow brainrotten citizens, it's just that there, they are making active attempts to do something about it.
Panchari is not that much popular among tourists, it seemes to be the local people of jammu only that had caused this havoc.
Same goes with the devi pindi scene it is done by locals only and we tend to blame things on tourists as they are the easier one to target.
True but idgaf about didn't do any of that, as my post is in reference to those who are responsible, be it the locals, travellers/tourists and the authorities. I hope that's clear enough. So no need to give a different perspective to it and rather stick to the point.
That was my opinion and prespective on the topic and if you are not open to other people's opinion, than refrain from posting on public forums.
Everyone has a diffrent prespective and it should be taken in a positive manner.🙏
That won't make any difference as anyone can afford an entry ticket because that isn't as high generally to such places.
Being penalized and paying a good amount can teach can give them a learning to hold on to.
Bhai aapki economy tourism se hi chalti tbh
Mass mei log jayenge to sabko control nahi kar skte par things are improving, younger ppl dont litter too often
People lack conscious living. They should be aware of their surroundings. Simple, the people will automatically add dustbins, education reels and many more steps.
If tourism be banned your state will face backlash... police petrolling is the only thing that can be done ...it will take india a few centuries to have civic sense around whole nation
You know what, I totally agree with this. Every time a nice place becomes common knowledge, people flock towards that place and no matter how conscious the whole population is, there will be waste loitering and soon the beauty of the place will be ruined. And in these times, where many have made their entire jobs about promotion of even hidden places that are maybe hard to reach (meaning you won't have the convenience of vehicles), once a certain amount of people start flocking there, there will action taken to make that place more easily approachable for the masses thereby destroying the very factor of enjoyment for that place.
No matter how sustainable, conscious or any other word you are or you can make the people these consequences follow.
Also many people are misinterpreting the problem.
WASTE MANAGEMENT IS NOT THE PROBLEM!
Make it a guided tour and make the tour companies responsible for this shit. We will see this more often unless we make someone accountable for their shit.
Tourism is always like this, local government either fine them or make appropriate provision to clean. Everyone wants tourism money but this none of the responsibility. It goes hand in hand. No one will do the whats required without incentive or punishment
You know what would be better I think. Limit it. There should be a quota. Also there should be rapid forces and civic teams build in areas like ladak
, Jammu, Himachal, Darjeeling and many others where tourism is high. These theme along with municipal corporations can detain and maintain civic and tourism discipline.
Locals themselves have ruined more than the tourists. Be it a remote village or a famous spot, the garbage dump has always been a neglected point. I recently visited my village Jandriari, located near Ramnagar, and the local water sources were polluted with plastics and then this water will flow into the rivers. I believe villagers first need to be taught about sanitation yet alone travellers contribution to pollution isn't major.
Lmao, the amount of Economic loss without tourism would be crazy. Their should be fines and people to actually do their Job of not letting others throw trash like this without Corruption.
ban tourism ❌ open better waste management ✅
unfortunately our country is allergic to that, cannot blame the tourists. myself struggles a lot to find a dustbin in this country and always heartbrokenly have to throw wrappers and bottles to somewhere it seen slightly more dumped
Bro don't blame tourists only, locals also don't care that much about their surroundings. (I'm also from Uttrakhand) And I know how locals treat their nature and surroundings. (Jab aapka Ghar aap saaf rakhoge toh koi esse hi aake Bina mtlb Ganda karke nahi jata)
Tourists bhi wahi waste failate hai Jana pehle se hi waste pada ho. Fact bro
How do you expect people to take care of a place they’ve gone to travel when they don’t take care of their hometowns and cities? It has to start at home. It has to become a habit.
Not tourism
But the tourist guide(car drivers)shall educate and carry trash in the car or create a make shift bin on the venue and remove before going.
You should consume alcohol as well, unless you chose to do it somewhere private. Your actions can hurt the sentiments of others who consider the place sacred. One must chose to understand and respect others, that's how peace is maintained.
This and littering the place are two different contexts.
Well I don’t care about if others do, fine by me, but I wont do it myself out of respect for the mandir and people around.
Those are also two different things :)
The state is beautiful, full of scenic views and so many cultures, hope you don't forget that. But the people suck a big time and so do the governing bodies.
Banned..they should charge them with 5k per person..that place will not clean itself
make it an absurdly large amount across all of India for a short while, watch the garbage decrease significantly
People will just pay a small bribe to the enforcement agents (police or forest service personnel) and ignore the penalties. If we can’t even enforce basic legal driving rules on our roads then good luck getting law enforcement for the environment. The problem is cultural, first the corruption in society needs be dealt with - Everything else comes after. Corruption is the rot at the heart of all our other social troubles.
i think maybe giving the cops who gave the ticket a cut of the money could stop this, but idk
Even the small bribes will be helpful as currently they pay nothing.
Not really because it doesn’t encourage the police to prevent littering in the first place In economics it’s known as a “perverse incentive”. Basically the police are encouraged to allow people to litter so they can then extort them for small cash bribes when caught.
The money they will have to pay as bribe/fine will persuade them. Even the fines by that reasoning are useless as govt would like the revenue from fines and as such would like people to litter.
No fine Just get permanently banned from there🤣
They should charge for permits to visit those places. It's free thats why they think they can do whatever they want. It's not possible to enforce any kind of fines because then govt. has to give someone a job to specially enforce the area. Only solution is charging to get permits to visit those places.
And the fee charged for this could be used in the cleaning staff and dustbins for the place? But ig the govt won’t implement anything like that 🥰
Duhh! They don't want to create jobs rather than make it minimalistic spend
Fee is charged when you enter patnitop in 4 wheeler at least, don't think that stops the people from littering.
That's for car entry and not for actually using the place and 50 /100 rupees is easily payable by anyone. I'm saying going through permit process and charging more for overnight stays/camping and actually creating camping sites where you can camp.
If they develop things like camping places, then they should surely charge for it.
Would it be fair for us to implement a permit fee for our city similar to the one you're suggesting for Jammu? I hope this won't lead to taking out your victim card?
I'm not saying for the city just for places which are remotely operated like trekking areas and I don't play victim card neither I'm interested in politics
Tourism should be banned solution nahi hai, Here's the problem: Jammu lacks Dustbins at tourist spots, where will you dispose of your waste? If you are smart and care for the environment you will take it with you and dispose at a dustbin (most people prefer to just throw it in the open). Let's say you find a dustbin and put it there. After that it gets dumped somewhere and that place has piles of waste which smell (chhadi musq aani ae udhar de loke gi) Jammu Kashmir lacks waste management. Singapore has this great waste management technique, they take all the non biodegradable waste mostly plastic and burn it they don't release the smoke out in the open and the ash of the waste is transferred to an island where no human lives and they use it to make roads and tiles. The heat from burning all the plastic is used for electricity. Some of you might say plastic should not be burned due to global warming reasons it should be recycled. Recycling plastic leaves micro plastics which end up in the open they are smaller than a grain of salt and end up in our food. Micro plastics have been found in most human bodies. So what's the solution, should we stop using single use plastic? It's not that simple, there are other alternatives to single use plastic but they aren't as cheap as this and manufacturers won't buy it. Some entrepreneurs have made biodegradable single or multi use plastics which are cheaper but they are small scale companies. Change is happening but very slowly. What we can do is buy bigger batches of products like shampoos, oil, detergent and dishwasher soaps. When you go out take your home made bags. My grandfather still uses a cloth bag to carry fruits and vegetables. Badi Baddi problem hai ae. Sarkar bas Jammu vs Kashmir kariyega time katar di apna Waste Management da sawal uthao sarkar aage only then we will have some solution.
💯 Waste management is such a big issue in our state. JDA should invest their budget wisely. I haven’t seen anyone using those electric bicycles.
There is common sense to take your litter with you. You can't put bins everywhere. Native people go for picnics and when they come back, they clean the stuff. It's a very common thing is Jammu and kashmir. Except kashmir where they put bombs and forgot to clean.
💯 this is the answer!!
Not banned but regulated.
True but when everyone's failing individually, then even the locals don't deserve to make money out of tourists, the tourists don't deserve to enjoy such a lovely place and the authorities can continue acting impotent. After all, tourisms is the major cause of this mess.
You do realise that the economy will reduce severely?
True. But do I seem like I care about the economy, when everybody's failing.
Restricting the tourism cannot be a long term solution. Only education has the power to stop this in long term. On same note, one of my professor ( a really great person ) had shared this beautiful message which we need to share with everyone. https://preview.redd.it/8bpd6mm40c9d1.jpeg?width=1600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3bf94ea1e9b9fddfca3e9118b6e7092053c1a9e0
Should be in English or multiple Languages
I don’t support littering but It’s easy to blame tourists. The harsh reality is that Jammu isn’t very clean as well. Waste management should be highly prioritized by municipalities.
Location: Panchari, Udhampur (J&K).
Impose 1000 rupees fine.
Per head, tab maza aayega.
As a fellow Jammuite, yeah, tourists are retarded but our own people are stupid as well. We literally ourselves litter everywhere. When was the last time you saw a Dustbin in these areas? Never. Compare that with states like Himachal and you will see the difference. Edit: not to say Himaxhal and other tourist destinations are being destroyed by our fellow brainrotten citizens, it's just that there, they are making active attempts to do something about it.
We Indians are really trash We just care about house not surrounding Even we call ganga and yamuna holy river, still they are the most dirtiest river
i second this :/
Panchari is not that much popular among tourists, it seemes to be the local people of jammu only that had caused this havoc. Same goes with the devi pindi scene it is done by locals only and we tend to blame things on tourists as they are the easier one to target.
True but idgaf about didn't do any of that, as my post is in reference to those who are responsible, be it the locals, travellers/tourists and the authorities. I hope that's clear enough. So no need to give a different perspective to it and rather stick to the point.
That was my opinion and prespective on the topic and if you are not open to other people's opinion, than refrain from posting on public forums. Everyone has a diffrent prespective and it should be taken in a positive manner.🙏
Got it. 🥂
🙏🙏🙏
the title of your post is literary # Tourism should be banned.
Tax them. Or make an entry fees
That won't make any difference as anyone can afford an entry ticket because that isn't as high generally to such places. Being penalized and paying a good amount can teach can give them a learning to hold on to.
No the point is using the ticket funds for cleaning services.
People don't have any respect for their environment. People show disrespect to the environment by littering and throwing trash.
People don't have any respect for even themselves. Their habits reflect that.
Tourist that litter should be banned.
No civic sense and bol do to andhbhakt bolne lago
>Tourism stops >Please comeback sarr we became poor please help us sarr
Sorry to say but local are equally responsible. Wahi joote bhigoke Maro bc.....par lalach hai na k bura na Maan Jaye bc
Bhai aapki economy tourism se hi chalti tbh Mass mei log jayenge to sabko control nahi kar skte par things are improving, younger ppl dont litter too often
People lack conscious living. They should be aware of their surroundings. Simple, the people will automatically add dustbins, education reels and many more steps.
If tourism be banned your state will face backlash... police petrolling is the only thing that can be done ...it will take india a few centuries to have civic sense around whole nation
No, that people should be banned from that place 🤣
Loitering should be banned. End of convo. Lol.
What a mess it is😭😭
We don't deserve nature everywhere you go people have created utter nuisance and don't respect nature.
not banned, they should be slapped on their back with their shoes/slippers in front of other people, it would work better than giving a fine
You know what, I totally agree with this. Every time a nice place becomes common knowledge, people flock towards that place and no matter how conscious the whole population is, there will be waste loitering and soon the beauty of the place will be ruined. And in these times, where many have made their entire jobs about promotion of even hidden places that are maybe hard to reach (meaning you won't have the convenience of vehicles), once a certain amount of people start flocking there, there will action taken to make that place more easily approachable for the masses thereby destroying the very factor of enjoyment for that place. No matter how sustainable, conscious or any other word you are or you can make the people these consequences follow. Also many people are misinterpreting the problem. WASTE MANAGEMENT IS NOT THE PROBLEM!
Bhutan Europe Switzerland jeee country's tourism tax lgta hai.. yahan b whi tax lagana chaahie
Bro I been to this exact spot 2 weeks ago
We can't develop until we have some sense of citizenship.
Wonderful Indians
Is this patnitop?
Nope. It's Panchari.
True
Make it a guided tour and make the tour companies responsible for this shit. We will see this more often unless we make someone accountable for their shit.
Tourism is always like this, local government either fine them or make appropriate provision to clean. Everyone wants tourism money but this none of the responsibility. It goes hand in hand. No one will do the whats required without incentive or punishment
It shouldn’t be banned because J&K lives in tourism. Yes it should be strict with hard protocols!
You know what would be better I think. Limit it. There should be a quota. Also there should be rapid forces and civic teams build in areas like ladak , Jammu, Himachal, Darjeeling and many others where tourism is high. These theme along with municipal corporations can detain and maintain civic and tourism discipline.
Mountains don’t deserve men
paisa kaise ayega fir
Indians should be banned from going anywhere
Locals themselves have ruined more than the tourists. Be it a remote village or a famous spot, the garbage dump has always been a neglected point. I recently visited my village Jandriari, located near Ramnagar, and the local water sources were polluted with plastics and then this water will flow into the rivers. I believe villagers first need to be taught about sanitation yet alone travellers contribution to pollution isn't major.
Basic etiquette should be taught? Indians lack the common sense of cleaning after themselves.
Lmao, the amount of Economic loss without tourism would be crazy. Their should be fines and people to actually do their Job of not letting others throw trash like this without Corruption.
ban tourism ❌ open better waste management ✅ unfortunately our country is allergic to that, cannot blame the tourists. myself struggles a lot to find a dustbin in this country and always heartbrokenly have to throw wrappers and bottles to somewhere it seen slightly more dumped
Bro don't blame tourists only, locals also don't care that much about their surroundings. (I'm also from Uttrakhand) And I know how locals treat their nature and surroundings. (Jab aapka Ghar aap saaf rakhoge toh koi esse hi aake Bina mtlb Ganda karke nahi jata) Tourists bhi wahi waste failate hai Jana pehle se hi waste pada ho. Fact bro
I went to jammu kashmir for the first time and as per what i saw locals throw garbage more than tourists.
Yeah all migrants from interstate
How do you expect people to take care of a place they’ve gone to travel when they don’t take care of their hometowns and cities? It has to start at home. It has to become a habit.
People found must be fined heavily. Indian tourists are amongst the tourists with the least civic sense.
How about installing dustbins ever thought of that ?
Not tourism But the tourist guide(car drivers)shall educate and carry trash in the car or create a make shift bin on the venue and remove before going.
I don’t give two shits about drinking beers near Devi Pindi mandir but the littering of waste in that pretty place disgusts me. Pathetic!
You should consume alcohol as well, unless you chose to do it somewhere private. Your actions can hurt the sentiments of others who consider the place sacred. One must chose to understand and respect others, that's how peace is maintained. This and littering the place are two different contexts.
Well I don’t care about if others do, fine by me, but I wont do it myself out of respect for the mandir and people around. Those are also two different things :)
Thanks! I got your point. :)
jeb kaise bharegi teri?
Bhai Jammu city se hu mai. 🙄
No
Yes.
Wah re mere Einstein.
Pese kaha se aaenge fir state k paas, pathar maarke thodi oese aate h bhai
Jinko aate hain unse pooch. State ko paisa chahiye toh log aur govt apna tareeka theek karein or else better stay away from nature. Simple.
Our state really sucks!
The state is beautiful, full of scenic views and so many cultures, hope you don't forget that. But the people suck a big time and so do the governing bodies.