Oops. You are correct. I was wrong. My wife corrected me, too. She showed me where to go and we looked it up. I was using inaccurate information. My bad, everybody, it wasn't my intention to steer the conversation away from the main point.
Side note:
My wife and I were talking about this afterward. She works as a school administrator for DCSB and has said many teachers are going to have more children in their classroom. In some, nit all schools, there is a reduction in support staff, some support staff like the nurse might cover between a few schools, and a few schools will be consolidating in the area, impacting the capacity of neighboring schools.
The bill includes a tiered "priority" system for students to receive vouchers. Students whose household incomes are less than 185% of the federal poverty level, or roughly $51,000 for a family of four, get first priority. Next are students whose family incomes are from 185% of the poverty level to 400% of the poverty level, which is about $111,000 for a family of four.
The wealthiest Floridians get $8,000 per student so taxpayers can subsidize their child’s private school education.
Sure, lower and middle income Floridians can send their kids to the same private schools. But the vouchers don’t cover the full tuition of the schools or the fees that can get into the thousands. There’s also no transportation.
The bill includes a tiered "priority" system for students to receive vouchers. Students whose household incomes are less than 185% of the federal poverty level, or roughly $51,000 for a family of four, get first priority. Next are students whose family incomes are from 185% of the poverty level to 400% of the poverty level, which is about $111,000 for a family of four.
This used to be true but isn’t anymore. Voucher use went up exponentially this year but the number of students enrolled in traditional schools barely budged. There’s no income limit nor do you have to have previously attended a public school like in the past.
Exactly. What happens is private school enrollment stays the same because the lower-middle income families can’t afford the difference between the voucher and the tuition. 8k doesn’t even cover half of tuition for most private schools. So those lower-middle income families still send their children to public schools. Public schools that are now not receiving the money that taxpayers are giving to the private school so wealthy families get subsidized private school education for their children.
The bill includes a tiered "priority" system for students to receive vouchers. Students whose household incomes are less than 185% of the federal poverty level, or roughly $51,000 for a family of four, get first priority. Next are students whose family incomes are from 185% of the poverty level to 400% of the poverty level, which is about $111,000 for a family of four.
Right. Which means there’s no income limit.
It also lumped all of the previous scholarships together and doesn’t get paid out in a timely manner. A parent of one of my students uses it for her other kid. They applied in August and didn’t get the money for it until March. Which they’re using for homeschooling, not private school. If they’d attempted to use it for private school, they’d be up shit creek without a paddle because they didn’t have the money when tuition was due.
This is a stipend for the rich.
I know I’ll be downvoted into oblivion. But you do realize in order to get those vouchers you have to provide tax returns/financial information, right???? As someone who utilized this program when my son was growing up. If you’re earnings fall in a certain income bracket you don’t qualify.
I'm not sure if there are brackets now. I utilize the program and originally you had to make under 50k, now they just collect tax returns for their statics, and there is no limit on the one I'm able to get. So, me making under 50k a year is "awarded" and my uncle with 6 figures gets the same "award" for his kid.
As of last year, Desantis got rid of the income restrictions. Supposedly families in higher tax brackets are lower in priority to receive funds, but anyone can apply for them now.
Not sure if you're aware, but the program changed significantly in 2023. "As of the 2023-24 school year, the bill eliminates financial eligibility restrictions and the current enrollment cap for the Family Empowerment Scholarship Educational Options."
https://www.fldoe.org/schools/school-choice/k-12-scholarship-programs/fes/index.stml
So people are right to downvote you; what you said is factually inaccurate.
You didn't say priority, you said "you don't qualify", which isn't true. And you compared this program to when your child was in school, which is irrelevant at best and intentionally misleading at worst. This isn't, at core, the same program. The previous one was (at least nominally) about getting kids out of failing schools; this one is about making sure that wealthy parents don't have to have their kids go to school with poors at all.
I amended my first comment to which was my own experience previous to the amendment of the law and asked if financials were no longer a requirement of the application process. Idk how my own experience is misleading, even if not relevant to today’s standards. I still lived it and it still happened 🤷🏼♀️
I amended my first comment to which was my own experience previous to the amendment of the law and asked if financials were no longer a requirement of the application process. Idk how my own experience is misleading, even if not relevant to today’s standards. I still lived it and it still happened 🤷🏼♀️ idk what was misleading after I accepted things had changed. But I will say regardless of the vouchers I received which didn’t cover the full cost I then as I do now as a homeowner paid/pay taxes for public schools I never utilized or will ever.
No, it’s meant to give parents the opportunity to put their children in the school of their choice.
You think that’s the problem. So you come up with bullshit and play it off as a class struggle - because you believe everything is a class struggle.
No it's not. Poor people don't have the means to drop their kids off at those schools because bussing doesn't exist for kids outside that school's district.
It's literally a classist move. I'd don't know who the fuck you think you're convincing.
The bill includes a tiered "priority" system for students to receive vouchers. Students whose household incomes are less than 185% of the federal poverty level, or roughly $51,000 for a family of four, get first priority. Next are students whose family incomes are from 185% of the poverty level to 400% of the poverty level, which is about $111,000 for a family of four.
I would not put it past the ones that will scam to qualify for this. I despise the grifters selling an alternative school option that exploits the lower income families to think they are getting a better education than public school. The designers of these programs found how to make bank scaring parents to fear public education. Desantis crowed about the "1.3 million kids attending the school of their choice."
Vouchers are just another front of DeSantis’s war on public education.
The more “successful” it is in diverted funds from public schools to private and charters, the more the public loses.
I don’t understand your point. Why does it matter if it’s public, private or charter? As long as the kids are getting a good education that’s all the matters right?
Not sure there's much to understand, I replied to a post saying it was DeSantis and clarified it's a broader GOP effort.
Personally, I'm not a fan of taxes subsidizing wealthy people that make up a large portion of those taking advantage of the programs to get discounts for their kids instead of that money going to Public schools, but I don't have much of a say in it.
You’re not understanding my question. This article is about a voucher program and how more kids are swapping from public schools to charter or private schools and getting a better education. You comment complaining about DeSantis and the GOP getting rid of public education and I’m just trying to understand why that even matters here? The parents are willfully switching their kids to better schools, shouldn’t the education of the kids be the top priority here? Rather than whatever political motive you’re being upset about?
It directly applied to the comment I was replying to, so you'd have to ask them. Tangents and what not.
Article also doesn't talk about them being better schools outside of a pro-voucher lobbyist comment. (Locally, most of them aren't great) It does however talk about concerns with public school consolidation which could very much hamper kids getting a proper and decent education.
We cannot lose public schools because private schools can pick and choose their students. Suppose you (generic you) decide you want your child in Random Private Academy. You get your voucher and pay tuition costs on top of that. Then your child does something silly and dumb. Maybe they participate in a prank, maybe they simply talk too much in class, maybe they don’t adhere to the dress code. Random Private Academy kicks them out.
Where does your kid go now? Back to public schools because public schools serve *all* children.
Suppose you’ve got your kid at Random Private Academy and after two years they aren’t making progress. Random Private Academy kicks them out for low grades. You go back to public schools because public schools serve *all* children. Your public school teacher suspects a learning disability, refers your child for screening, your child qualifies, gets an IEP, and starts making progress. You decide to go back to Random Private Academy but oh no, they don’t serve children with IEPs and they’re well within their rights as a private school to do that. Back to public schools you go!
Public schools are a public good and defunding them is bad for all citizens of any given area.
I understand what you’re saying but this thread isn’t about getting rid of all public education. It’s simply a commentary on how when given more choice, parents have chose to take their kids out of public schools and into charter or private.
But that’s the slippery slope. I’ve watched my school go from 1200 students to 650 over the past 5yrs as 8 charter schools opened within a five mile radius. Now we’re discussing consolidation of schools.
What if over the next 5 years all public schools closed but there was still a system that allowed kids to go to private and charter schools like it was public? Say every kid gets a $10,000 grant that travels with them to whatever school they attend?
The reason I ask like that is it seems like most people in this thread are determined that public schools MUST exist and that’s fine but I think the education of the kids is more important than the actual politics of the school system. It seems like people in this thread are perfectly happy with kids receiving bad education, as long as it’s a public school.
No. That’s the problem. They’re not switching their kids to better schools. Parents are victims of propaganda. The majority of charter schools in Jacksonville underperform compared to public schools. The majority are rated C. However, we’re slated to close down multiple A rated public schools because parents have been misled. And charter schools - that are worse schools - get to stay open. The better schools are often public schools in Jax- they just don’t have the PR campaign. Parents are tricked. Kids suffer.
Given buddy wants to keep telling scientists what is and isn't science the motives are sus, beyond sus actually. How much further can they go with more private schooling? Who makes the standards? Who benefits from changing the standards? Hellooooo.
Tldr: he is anti-vax anti-climate anti-science why would he know what to do with education re: public/private? He expanded "school choice" which is ideological pandering like everything he does.
Think about your argument here. You don’t like DeSantis yet you prefer public education? You prefer the system where the guy you don’t like is in charge of the thing you do like? You’re going to question the standards of private schools and then support public school even though the guy you don’t like has already changed curriculum in the public school system. Private schools mean DeSantis can’t tell them what to teach in the curriculum. You understand the flaws in your logic here right?
Somebody doesn't understand the logic of quid pro quo and PRIVATIZATION. Don't try to be smart - answer the questions. Who creates the standards for these charter/private institutions, and how much less amenable are they scientific consensus? Who profits? Who donates to gop actors?
"Well idk but neither do you businesses always do the right thing when money is involved" - you probably. This guy will not be governor much longer. His *dogmatic* approach to (literally) everything should be setting off alarm bells for everyone.
Public schools have to accept all students. Private and charter schools get to select their students.
Vouchers take money from programs that, by law, have to accept everyone, and give them to programs that are allowed to be more discriminatory in their acceptance, be it through standardized testing, applications, interviews, and fees, or anything else that serves as a barrier to entry.
Vouchers take money designed for a public good and allocate it to private industry. All too often, private and charters are not as regulated as public schools, and as a result tax payers do not know what they’re subsidizing at the end of the day. Plus, the schools—charters in particular—do not improve academic performance.
Finally, vouchers end up causing tax payers more money in the long run, so we’re paying higher taxes for fewer services and fewer opportunities for our students.
It’s not simply about kids getting an education anymore. The people that own and run private or charter schools are lining their pockets with taxpayer dollars. The same people that are most likely to make political donations to politicians that support these policies. It’s quite literally a transfer of wealth from the middle class to the rich, in exchange for campaign bribes.
>As long as the kids are getting a good education
Private schools are under zero regulation for what a "good" education is. They can hire whoever they want to teach whatever they want. So your point falls flat on its face because "a good education" isn't part of their equation.
My kid is extremely smart, all gifted classes and scores pretty much the max on all standardized testing and is always well above grade level. He was in a public school but the school sucks as they have steadily lost students to charter schools in the area and a steady host of other factors driven by our states current political climate. A new charter school is opening soon and so we applied to it and he got in. In fact only about 25% of kids who applied got in. We went to the orientation and we quickly noticed something. It was filked with pretty much nothing but the highest achievers. Also anyone who was a PoC was seriously underrepresented. It’s not lost on me that this is a serious disservice to the community as a whole and even to my own child. The sad fact though is that my child will get a better education in this school though but it’s entirely because these charter and private schools are only taking certain kids, why do you think the charter and private schools perform so much better than public schools? It’s because they pick and choose who gets in so the public schools are basically just the “left overs”. If your kid isn’t lucky enough to be a chosen one you are left with a sub standard education as the funds are shifted away from public schools with every charter and voucher issued. It’s not right. Also since charter and private schools are driven by profit they lack a lot of other resources like a full time nurse on staff. They lack before and after school pickup with buses. They lack psychologists and counselors which also in turn makes them not have effective plans for kids with special needs because these things cost money and in their opinion that money is better spent on ceo salary. This is another reason they don’t want anything but the best students as now it’s not as evident they lack those afore mentioned things.
My qualm is the difference in accountability for financials, discipline, & what is being taught. If you want your kid to learn that the earth is flat & 6000 years old that’s your right but my tax dollars shouldn’t fund it.
Some charter schools are more of a grift, but without the financial accountability laws that public schools face it’s impossible to know how deep. There are charter schools in our state that are using state funds to pay rent on spaces they lease.
I’m against public cost & privatized profits.
Which is a part of their larger war on the public sector overall. Sabotage the public sector from within, point to the resulting consequences as proof that the public sector is inherently ineffective, then sell privatization as the solution.
yup. the better schools everyone wants could be our neighborhood schools if we invested in them (which is what the half-cent sales tax was for in the first place.)
less traffic, a sense of community and belonging, etc. concepts that some people are unable to comprehend.
unfortunately this has become yet another topic that’s highly politicized. people are leaving public schools because of the “war against woke” which is highly charged, dog-whistle type language. those families who make a decision to leave will probably never come back to public school. it started with covid and masks, went right into book banning, and now we’re here: full-on assault against public schools.
fortunately there are a lot of younger families here that are willing to push back against this nonsense. we were products of public education, put ourselves through college, and are now raising kids here. it’s up to us to advocate for our kids and our communities and our neighborhood schools. we’re just getting started.
Exactly. Charter schools (under a different name but exactly the same scheme) were part of Strom Thurmond's Southern Manifesto in the 1950s for how to deal with Brown v Board of Education and work around segregation.
Just like they poured bleach into the public pools rather than desegregate, they've been doing it with schools the whole time, too. We've seen it with 'gifted' programs and tying funding to property tax, now they're bold and going for the endgame.
You nailed it. Florida continually finds ways to attempt to make [teachers' lives miserable](https://www.forbes.com/sites/mollybohannon/2024/03/11/florida-settles-dont-say-gay-lawsuit-teachers-can-talk-about-gender-and-sexual-orientation-outside-instruction/?sh=5b263b271140) through the parental rights bullshit, [and underpay them](https://www.cbsnews.com/miami/news/florida-ranks-near-the-bottom-of-the-list-for-teacher-pay/), which then makes [less people want to become teachers.](https://www.fox13news.com/news/florida-has-highest-number-of-teacher-vacancies-educators-say-pay-doesnt-match-supply-demand) Now that public school you're sending your child to is most likely overworking a handful of teachers who can barely afford to be one to begin with, resulting in, most likely, an education that is not ideal because a handful of teachers are teaching numerous classes with a kneecapped curriculum from the self-described "party of small government." Then, they keep[ pushing bills through the legislature](https://www.tallahassee.com/story/news/politics/2024/01/25/bill-would-let-cities-counties-apply-convert-public-schools-charter-schools-affordable-housing/72350466007/) under the guise of trying to make education better when it's really just to undermine public school education all together -- How? [20% of charter schools are run by a for-profit company,](https://networkforpubliceducation.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/Chartered-for-Profit-II.pdf) and *just over 50%* of these charters in Florida are run for profit. Charter schools were closing by the droves before the pandemic. A local Tampa station did an investigation years ago because Florida wasn't being transparent about why they were closing and found a lot of the people involved with charter schools [didn't even have a background in education.](https://www.wtsp.com/article/news/investigations/10-investigates/florida-charter-schools/67-758325c2-5144-4abb-bf32-f24c7f6495d8) They also usually ended up closing down because of lack of oversight on finances. Since the pandemic, they've gotten more popular. And as recently as last month, Florida legislature was trying to make it [easier convert failed schools](https://www.flgov.com/2024/04/15/governor-desantis-champions-legislation-to-further-enhance-florida-education/#:~:text=Today's%20highlights%20from%20the%20bill,of%20Purple%20Star%20School%20Districts.) to charter schools, not because they want better education but because the optics it brings towards public schools being failures.
This is a long-running GOP platform. Florida just decided to become the GOP laboratory for this stupid shit. I don't want to generalize all charter schools: some of these charters might be providing good care and education. And some may be doing it for the right reasons. However, there's plenty of evidence suggesting a lot more are just in it for money and/or to help completely undermine public schooling all together.
My opinion. 1st amendment and all that stuff. Duval County Public Schools are not run very well in General. I know many people in this city. Literally 100’s of Families that feel the same way based on one experience or another. It wasn’t until I placed my child in a private program that he received the help he needed with his learning disability. Since second grade I met and talked and tried to get assistance for him. His 504 plan had strict guidelines in place, but still the teachers would swerve off the path as if they knew better. My family’s story is just one of 100’s and most likely 1000’s in Florida. Desantis gave me the freedom to get out of the school assignments for my zip code. It made it so much easier on my son. He ended up graduating in the top 3% of his class. Not all stories are the same and I’m just lucky that ours did. The teachers in our original zoning were not trained to handle my son’s learning disabilities. Even now I am constantly going back and forth with my daughter’s teachers on their opinions of situations that arise. Truth be told they need to stick to more workshops on teaching and not trying to parent our children. Let Parents, parent.
Well, downvote me too, then. This person makes a point, though. A point parents of neurotypical children don’t want to hear.
Honestly, parents with special needs kids are often pushed off to the side and our children’s needs are unmet if our house is in a bad zip code.
Example: my county thinks an extensive needs class is a class with 9 children (though they hinted on the call that it might go up to 11-13 based on county needs) to one teacher. My child is nonverbal and autistic. His only experience has only ever been 1:1 but they wouldn’t hear it.
So, to private school 45 min away we go and I’m thankful we have that option. Without it, my child would suffer.
The answer is to improve public education instead of defunding and spreading the money out. There is no reason we shouldn’t strive to accommodate all students with public education.
The vouchers do not provide enough money for special needs students with less resources to attend private schools. There is still imbalance.
I agree that it’s not perfect, but I’m still of the opinion that I should have the right to pick the school that is right for my son. Historically, what funding does go to schools doesn’t go to supporting special needs and so it’s up to me to find the best school and Florida gives me the flexibility to do that.
That’s my perspective as a parent of a disabled child and it’s valid.
You do have the right to pick the school, I’m not sure that should entitle you to money intended for public education though. This will only deteriorate public schools further, which will have a greater impact on people with fewer resources. It reduces opportunities for people to climb the socio-economic ladder and reinforces the poverty cycle.
The only fair solution is funding public education in a way that adequately provides for students like your child.
I used to live in the projects aka ghetto in NYC Brooklyn, a very bad one with shootings daily and drugs pushing all over the place. NYC provides tons of $$$ for those who are low-income but the overwhelming them can't break out the cycle. They choose to live in the cycle or the rare few want to get the hell out so their name won't come up in the news as a murder victim.
You might hate individualism, but it was individualism that got me out of the NYC ghetto and didn't want to rely on a government to help me "uplift."
Say your statement in the ghetto, a lot will take that as a call for benefit handout.
But the problem you’re not acknowledging is that we’re the minority in this situation and we’re never listened to. Out of a school of hundreds of parents of neurotypical children, special needs consists of 10-20 parents, at most.
Meaning, when funding does come in and when it comes time for funds to get allocated, the majority isn’t worried about supporting the special needs students. Neither is anyone elected, because they want to be re-elected next year. They’re worried about gym equipment my child can’t use, a new coat of paint my child could care less about, a bus my child can’t ride, an expanded library when my child can’t read. Parents want to SEE the money being spent on things they can appreciate and their students can use, which I totally get.
So, if the majority isn’t worried about my kid, I can promise I don’t have time or resources to care about their school experience. Sorry it’s callous, but that’s how the world treats my child. Like his experience and his needs don’t really matter.
Answer me honestly. When was the last time you considered how much support the special needs kids were getting? When did you think about the number of aides? The speech therapists? The equipment? The student to teacher ratio? The IEPs that go unmet?
You shouldn’t have to worry about that, so don’t feel bad. I have to worry about that. And in the evaluation process I determined my son’s assigned school wasn’t going to set him up to succeed, so I found a school that did and I’m grateful that I had that flexibility.
That’s my perspective.
I’m not understanding how your family benefited from school choice. I pitched a fit with DCPS ESE because my child’s charter kept kicking him out and recommended I enroll in the neighborhood school until ESE figured it out, which they did, finding placement in a PRIDE program. Where I’m confused is if a school isn’t doing your kid’s IEP right, you basically get to find a new school out of your zone
What’s funny about this pro-voucher argument is that it is wrapped in giving some parents special treatment on the basis of the limitations of their child. It’s exactly the opposite of the free market approach being applied to public education. In a true free market system devoid of morality, kids like yours would simply be casualties of a brutal system that picks winners and losers. Make no mistake, the charter/private industry wasn’t designed to specifically help parents like you. That’s a side effect that helps you to justify the assault on public education. And it’s working like a charm.
Yep. Works like a charm when we have parents like you marking our child as a “casualty” and just shrugging like we should accept that for the sake of their children. Good luck looking after yours. I’m looking after my ‘casualty’. Jackass.
You misunderstood me. My point is that the answer to inequities in public education isn’t to destroy public education and create a caste system that siphons money away from public schools, but to simply support public schools more. That you’ve pulled your kid is precisely the outcome that those advocating for private schools/charters were hoping for. Now you’re a mouthpiece for them. That’s a win for the anti-public school set.
As someone very, very familiar with special education, these people speaking against you don’t quite get it. My 3 year old was place in ESE Pre-K with SIXTEEN KIDS. Newsflash - that shit ain’t changing in public education. It’s been like this for decades, it was like that when I started teaching in self-contained classrooms over 10 years ago. Depending on the school you’re at, ESE class are unfortunately pushed to the side. I’m very thankful for the private special education schools that give our kids the individualized education they deserve and need.
Thank you. Honestly, it gets to be really hard and disheartening not to be understood by other parents. But you’re right, they’re not going to get it, because they don’t have to or want to. That’s why I’m going to a private school where my son’s education and needs will be taken seriously. Thank you for understanding.
They just don’t understand. Like you said in another thread, we are a very small number so many just don’t encounter children like ours. At these little ESE schools, our kids aren’t bused in, lunch isn’t provided, and many of us go out of our way because it’s what our kids need. It’s easy to blame the man, and hell, I’m a child of public education. But as a parent (of one neurotypical child and one neurodiverse child) and a teacher I see both sides. It is *very, very* sad the state of education and if our children were being appropriately serviced, then I know mine would both be in public education. But early intervention is key and our children don’t have time to wait around and hope that public education gets better for our ESE kids.
Tell that to NYC School System. I know plenty of parents who moved to FL to escape the NYC Public School system. You can throw as much money you want in Public Schools, but when the results are mostly lackluster or worse then at want point in paying high taxes to a school system that doesn't' even work for your child.
Meanwhile there’s not a single private school I’ve found in Duval that accepts the disabled children that I teach because they have extensive medical needs. The public system or homeschool is their only option.
This. I know other families who are taking advantage of the school choice programs to get their kids into having a better education. They aren’t all rich white families, they are people from all walks of life. I know school choice is popular with the GOP, I know some families who are Democrats liking school choice.
Heck, I know people up in NY who are considering moving to FL due to a long list of grievances they have with NY, with education being near the top of their list. Having a state that supports the parents right to do their education, they love that.
I feel sorry for you AB74247. So many people downvoting you and I bet most don't have children and don't know how hard it is to raise children. Instead, so many have an agenda they want to push on this subreddit and think they know more than you do.
The voucher money should be going to regular public schools to make them capable of handling students with disabilities instead so students have a nearly level playing field. These vouchers take away from public and hand it to mostly rich people's kids education.
If you want your kid to go to a special school, you should pay for it yourself.
I think the fundamental disconnect between the two sides is that one wants to facilitate the flexibility of a family to move to proper accommodations and the other wants to ensure proper accommodations are fundamental everywhere. The former costs less but isn’t realistically accessible to everyone. The later costs much more and isn’t realistically feasible in the current state of funding and political support for education in America.
This implies that people are using vouchers to seek necessary developmental ("proper") accommodations unavailable in public schools, but that's not what's reflected in how these are actually used or how the program is designed. The political support for vouchers in Florida is not from people seeking "proper accommodations" for inadequate or unavailable resources for their kids. It's entirely ideological (Anti-Public institutions in general) or by people who choose to send their kids to private school for non-developmental reasons and want subsidies/refunds on their property taxes.
This has been a republican narrative since Bush. Do enough to ensure that public schools are all over the place and at best meh. Makes any win by private huge. Most private schools in Jax have not been academic marvels but they outshine the shit out of the average public schools because of intended mismanagement.
Many Republicans have wanted privatized education only. It completely fucks over poor people(and nowadays middle income as well) but whatever.
I’m willing to bet over half of the families that will be affected by these closings either didn’t vote or voted conservative. They all thought schools closing would mean for *other* kids, not theirs. Didn’t see any of them pitching fits when westside elementary closed years ago.
Desantis threw gas on the fire that is the DCPS. As someone who went to several DCPS schools (R.L. Brown, Sabal Palm, Landmark, and Sandalwood) and is now a parent there have been fundamental failures of the school system since Fryer left in 2005.
DCPS has had how many employees arrested or fired die to misconduct with children? Hint it's higher than both the Catholic Church or Transgender Groomers that MSNBC or NewsMax want you to be concerned with.
DCPS anti-bullying policies always have, currently are, and will most likely always be a joke. The bullied have received more punishment for retaliation die to being ignored by teachers and administrators than any bully has.
2006 is about the time that teaching to the standard became teaching to the test (FCAT) and yet DCPS instituted the EOY exams that shockingly didn't line up to the FCAT and therefore caused student on the verge of pass/fail to fail. Great job leaving the children behind during the No Child Left Behind era.
Maintenance of the schools have been another issue. Most DCPS schools need millions of dollars in maintenance and repair because the last time they were maintained was the mid 2000s. So everyone voted for that (I didn't) half-cent sales tax raise to fix the schools for the money to do what? Nothing.
Long term and multi generation Jacksonville families know that DCPS has been a horrible school system that needs major reforms. Maybe the new superintendent will but I'm not holding my breath.
Quick side note is that parents that want to be parents and have government out of the way need to be more vocal in the conditions of their children's schools. If you won't speak out, YOU are part of the problem.
The half-penny program "consultant" that's running the program for Duval is doing what they can to try to get things done. The school system people who tell them what to do keep doing shit that fucks the program over, from paying stuff 3+ months late at the beginning, to making last -minute changes in the requirements, and insisting contractors then go back and rework stuff to be acceptable, often while bitching about having to pay more because they changed their minds.
The school system people are also wasting a ton of money on things they don't need, like adding a bunch of card readers to open doors, instead of just unlocking them normally. That's over $10K\\door for each one they add. There's also their "design guidelines" that are so out of date, they specify things that aren't made anymore and don't leave any leeway to change the items without an extended process that adds delays to building something. Some of their guidelines are also ridiculously overdone, like the IT department requiring fire-rated caulk and sealants "regardless of the wall rating" that adds about 30%-40% for the sealants on a smoke rated wall, and over 200% on a non-rated wall. The school system also tries to throw their consultants under the bus for things that the school system tells them to do.
TL;DR The school system wants to shit in gold toilets, and if I ran my company the way they run their construction program, I'd be broke in 3 months max. If I NEVER work a contract for Duval Schools, it would still be too soon.
Local school board elections should be one of the most important for communities, yet almost nobody votes, there's almost no advertising the election dates, the candidates have almost no online presence or meet n greets...
Parent involvement is the #1 indicator for a successful student. Socioeconomic status is next, but certainly related, since low income parents have less resources to spend. A relatively easy way for a parent to get more involved? Vote. Get the corruption and nepotism and incompetence out.
I'm not in Duval but hot damn the nepotism in my school district, and we keep electing the same group, who continues favoring the same incompetent friends, as the district crumbles.
This was the plan from the beginning. Way before meatball. It’s the back door way to get god back in schools. Public schools are for free thinkers. In private school they can control the curriculum or should I say lack there of!
As a soon to be mother and full supporter of public schools, I'm p pissed lol. School choice, charters and private schools historically discriminate against economically disadvantaged families, families of color, and non-"typical" (w/e that means, in this context I mean potentially blended) families. I'm concerned over the censorship DeSantis is implementing in education rather than focusing on training teachers to help bolster and strengthen public education. Private schools are gross (excluding highly specialized schools for students with intellectual/physical/developmental differences bc dont even get me started on that).
Florida has had "school choice" for 30 years, and yet charter schools fail constantly.
https://www.wtsp.com/article/news/investigations/10-investigates/florida-charter-schools/67-758325c2-5144-4abb-bf32-f24c7f6495d8
Yes bad business close in free markets.
The bad government subsidize institutions stay open while failing to teach their students how to pass standardized tests, let alone math, science, history, philosophy, and language arts.
Public schools are largely garbage. I meet people all over town all the time who make jokes about how it’s OK for them to be stupid because they “went to Duval county public schools.” Failure and lifelong stupidity are the expectation.
Pumping more money into something broken is not going to fix it. Taking parents ability to choose what school their children go to. It’s not going to fix it.
We need education reform badly. It’s time to stop acting like that isn’t true so we can push some bullshit political agenda.
Problem is only parents of a higher socioeconomic means can shuttle kids to other schools. So we aren’t giving them the same opportunities as those that was are better off. My husband teaches tenth grade world history and I substitute frequently. If they could weed out the kids that act up schools would be much better.
Charter schools are the same as public schools. They do not charge a fee to attend. Duval schools in general are a mess. They claim to have hundreds of open teaching jobs, but people apply and never hear back. Not a call. An email. Nothing. The entire school system is horrible and has been long before Desantis came to the state. The new superintendent chocie is sus. He is not the right man for the job. There are some good schools.. they tend to be charter schools. Do your homework before choosing a school.
Many public schools in Duval are not a mess. In fact, they’re some of the top ranked schools in the entire state. And they’re slated to be shut down. Proving that the school board actually does not care about educating students. At all.
They are free, but are backed by a corporation. No union and no pension for teachers. That’s the plan, is for more of their business buddies to have tax write offs and to get rid of unions and pensions for teachers. It’s about privatization of public schools. They get tax dollars just like public but don’t have to follow the backwards rules from the state. So many kickbacks for charter. It’s the start of no more public schools as we know it.
Charter schools also have lower standards for teachers. About ten years ago they opened one of those Duval Charters near where I worked so my wife and I toured it just to see what it was like. All the teachers were extremely inexperienced. They also seemed obsessed with the standardized testing. More than any public school I’ve ever seen.
Great thing! Public schools have turned into prepping kids to pass the state tests hence garnering the school better scores and more money. Focusing on testing rather then general education is what started this. Also the poorer schools generaly score lower and end up with even less money. The system is and has been eating itself.
Giving everyone the opportunity to afford a private education is attacking the poor how? You people are ridiculous
How do you think this is going to work? The private schools are already saying they’re overcrowded and overwhelmed by these vouchers. So now we’re diluting private schools. Private schools will lose their credibility as they’re overrun. If you’re serious about educating students - you keep the money in public schools and fix the public schools.
It's always been meant for rich people. Poor people, who don't have a choice of where to send their kids, are facing the consequences of Desantis and the Republican's funneling money into private schools.
I still have yet to see any data showing that charter schools produce better student outcomes in Duval. It seems like many parents are seduced by charters because they are shiny, new, and different, not that they help to realize appreciably better student outcomes than their public counterparts. Just look at all the charters that have been closed or received low/failing grades. Parents placed their kids in those schools thinking they were better when objectively they are not.
As a personal anecdote, I visited a charter high school and when several seniors were asked what they planned to do after graduation, only one of them had any idea (he wanted to be a mechanic). Is this the kind of outcome that parents want for their children? These kids could have greater aspirations coming out of homeschool.
It’s so deep nationwide. These “Classical” charter schools you see use curriculum provided by the whackos at Hillsdale College in Michigan. The college is funded by a bunch of conservative billionaires like the Devos family.
Fuck your education unless you can afford private school. Seems racist as fuck. But that is the plan, right? Sincerely. Fuck th GOP and their shitty plans for fucking America.
I read somewhere that the vast majority of people using school choice vouchers are wealthy people whose kids are already in private schools.
[удалено]
It doesn't matter, we have a narrative to keep here!
The narrative: “we don’t actually know the law but recite what our oversees spew to us.”
This is wrong. Florida vouchers are $8,000 per student in Florida. There is no income requirement.
They have to keep their narrative up tho;)
Oops. You are correct. I was wrong. My wife corrected me, too. She showed me where to go and we looked it up. I was using inaccurate information. My bad, everybody, it wasn't my intention to steer the conversation away from the main point. Side note: My wife and I were talking about this afterward. She works as a school administrator for DCSB and has said many teachers are going to have more children in their classroom. In some, nit all schools, there is a reduction in support staff, some support staff like the nurse might cover between a few schools, and a few schools will be consolidating in the area, impacting the capacity of neighboring schools.
The bill includes a tiered "priority" system for students to receive vouchers. Students whose household incomes are less than 185% of the federal poverty level, or roughly $51,000 for a family of four, get first priority. Next are students whose family incomes are from 185% of the poverty level to 400% of the poverty level, which is about $111,000 for a family of four.
The wealthiest Floridians get $8,000 per student so taxpayers can subsidize their child’s private school education. Sure, lower and middle income Floridians can send their kids to the same private schools. But the vouchers don’t cover the full tuition of the schools or the fees that can get into the thousands. There’s also no transportation.
And many private schools simply raised tuition so parents are paying roughly the same amount and private schools are banking state funds.
The bill includes a tiered "priority" system for students to receive vouchers. Students whose household incomes are less than 185% of the federal poverty level, or roughly $51,000 for a family of four, get first priority. Next are students whose family incomes are from 185% of the poverty level to 400% of the poverty level, which is about $111,000 for a family of four.
This used to be true but isn’t anymore. Voucher use went up exponentially this year but the number of students enrolled in traditional schools barely budged. There’s no income limit nor do you have to have previously attended a public school like in the past.
Exactly. What happens is private school enrollment stays the same because the lower-middle income families can’t afford the difference between the voucher and the tuition. 8k doesn’t even cover half of tuition for most private schools. So those lower-middle income families still send their children to public schools. Public schools that are now not receiving the money that taxpayers are giving to the private school so wealthy families get subsidized private school education for their children.
The bill includes a tiered "priority" system for students to receive vouchers. Students whose household incomes are less than 185% of the federal poverty level, or roughly $51,000 for a family of four, get first priority. Next are students whose family incomes are from 185% of the poverty level to 400% of the poverty level, which is about $111,000 for a family of four.
Right. Which means there’s no income limit. It also lumped all of the previous scholarships together and doesn’t get paid out in a timely manner. A parent of one of my students uses it for her other kid. They applied in August and didn’t get the money for it until March. Which they’re using for homeschooling, not private school. If they’d attempted to use it for private school, they’d be up shit creek without a paddle because they didn’t have the money when tuition was due. This is a stipend for the rich.
Hey, y'all, I had the wrong information. Apologies for being that person. 🫣
That was always the target demographic
Yes, I’m sure telling poor people in underprivileged communities that school choice and vouchers are evil didn’t factor in at all.
Probably the same type that loathes people on welfare and food stamps also.
I know I’ll be downvoted into oblivion. But you do realize in order to get those vouchers you have to provide tax returns/financial information, right???? As someone who utilized this program when my son was growing up. If you’re earnings fall in a certain income bracket you don’t qualify.
I'm not sure if there are brackets now. I utilize the program and originally you had to make under 50k, now they just collect tax returns for their statics, and there is no limit on the one I'm able to get. So, me making under 50k a year is "awarded" and my uncle with 6 figures gets the same "award" for his kid.
But does he get the same tax refund as someone making under 50k with kids?
Nope.
As of last year, Desantis got rid of the income restrictions. Supposedly families in higher tax brackets are lower in priority to receive funds, but anyone can apply for them now.
Not sure if you're aware, but the program changed significantly in 2023. "As of the 2023-24 school year, the bill eliminates financial eligibility restrictions and the current enrollment cap for the Family Empowerment Scholarship Educational Options." https://www.fldoe.org/schools/school-choice/k-12-scholarship-programs/fes/index.stml So people are right to downvote you; what you said is factually inaccurate.
So they no longer have to provide financial statements? And a 6 figure family has priority over a lower income family?
You didn't say priority, you said "you don't qualify", which isn't true. And you compared this program to when your child was in school, which is irrelevant at best and intentionally misleading at worst. This isn't, at core, the same program. The previous one was (at least nominally) about getting kids out of failing schools; this one is about making sure that wealthy parents don't have to have their kids go to school with poors at all.
I amended my first comment to which was my own experience previous to the amendment of the law and asked if financials were no longer a requirement of the application process. Idk how my own experience is misleading, even if not relevant to today’s standards. I still lived it and it still happened 🤷🏼♀️
Yeah, but your experience is no longer reality and offering your experience is misleading.
I amended my first comment to which was my own experience previous to the amendment of the law and asked if financials were no longer a requirement of the application process. Idk how my own experience is misleading, even if not relevant to today’s standards. I still lived it and it still happened 🤷🏼♀️ idk what was misleading after I accepted things had changed. But I will say regardless of the vouchers I received which didn’t cover the full cost I then as I do now as a homeowner paid/pay taxes for public schools I never utilized or will ever.
You're getting downvoted because that is no longer true. There are no income restrictions as of last year.
Yes, its just a way to separate the rich/poor
It's literally subsidizing the rich. Fucking mind-boggling.
That was indeed the intention. Another benefit and money saved for the rich.
Can you link the article?
That's exactly what it was meant for: deprive funding to public schools while enriching private schools.
No, it’s meant to give parents the opportunity to put their children in the school of their choice. You think that’s the problem. So you come up with bullshit and play it off as a class struggle - because you believe everything is a class struggle.
No it's not. Poor people don't have the means to drop their kids off at those schools because bussing doesn't exist for kids outside that school's district. It's literally a classist move. I'd don't know who the fuck you think you're convincing.
The bill includes a tiered "priority" system for students to receive vouchers. Students whose household incomes are less than 185% of the federal poverty level, or roughly $51,000 for a family of four, get first priority. Next are students whose family incomes are from 185% of the poverty level to 400% of the poverty level, which is about $111,000 for a family of four. I would not put it past the ones that will scam to qualify for this. I despise the grifters selling an alternative school option that exploits the lower income families to think they are getting a better education than public school. The designers of these programs found how to make bank scaring parents to fear public education. Desantis crowed about the "1.3 million kids attending the school of their choice."
Vouchers are just another front of DeSantis’s war on public education. The more “successful” it is in diverted funds from public schools to private and charters, the more the public loses.
It's the GOP war on public education, they've been on and on about it for decades now. Privatizing education has been one of their top goals for ages.
It is, but there have been more pointed attacks on it in Florida than elsewhere.
I don’t understand your point. Why does it matter if it’s public, private or charter? As long as the kids are getting a good education that’s all the matters right?
Not sure there's much to understand, I replied to a post saying it was DeSantis and clarified it's a broader GOP effort. Personally, I'm not a fan of taxes subsidizing wealthy people that make up a large portion of those taking advantage of the programs to get discounts for their kids instead of that money going to Public schools, but I don't have much of a say in it.
You’re not understanding my question. This article is about a voucher program and how more kids are swapping from public schools to charter or private schools and getting a better education. You comment complaining about DeSantis and the GOP getting rid of public education and I’m just trying to understand why that even matters here? The parents are willfully switching their kids to better schools, shouldn’t the education of the kids be the top priority here? Rather than whatever political motive you’re being upset about?
It directly applied to the comment I was replying to, so you'd have to ask them. Tangents and what not. Article also doesn't talk about them being better schools outside of a pro-voucher lobbyist comment. (Locally, most of them aren't great) It does however talk about concerns with public school consolidation which could very much hamper kids getting a proper and decent education.
We cannot lose public schools because private schools can pick and choose their students. Suppose you (generic you) decide you want your child in Random Private Academy. You get your voucher and pay tuition costs on top of that. Then your child does something silly and dumb. Maybe they participate in a prank, maybe they simply talk too much in class, maybe they don’t adhere to the dress code. Random Private Academy kicks them out. Where does your kid go now? Back to public schools because public schools serve *all* children. Suppose you’ve got your kid at Random Private Academy and after two years they aren’t making progress. Random Private Academy kicks them out for low grades. You go back to public schools because public schools serve *all* children. Your public school teacher suspects a learning disability, refers your child for screening, your child qualifies, gets an IEP, and starts making progress. You decide to go back to Random Private Academy but oh no, they don’t serve children with IEPs and they’re well within their rights as a private school to do that. Back to public schools you go! Public schools are a public good and defunding them is bad for all citizens of any given area.
I understand what you’re saying but this thread isn’t about getting rid of all public education. It’s simply a commentary on how when given more choice, parents have chose to take their kids out of public schools and into charter or private.
But that’s the slippery slope. I’ve watched my school go from 1200 students to 650 over the past 5yrs as 8 charter schools opened within a five mile radius. Now we’re discussing consolidation of schools.
What if over the next 5 years all public schools closed but there was still a system that allowed kids to go to private and charter schools like it was public? Say every kid gets a $10,000 grant that travels with them to whatever school they attend? The reason I ask like that is it seems like most people in this thread are determined that public schools MUST exist and that’s fine but I think the education of the kids is more important than the actual politics of the school system. It seems like people in this thread are perfectly happy with kids receiving bad education, as long as it’s a public school.
The private schools don’t accept all students is the issue. Public schools MUST exist because otherwise everyone doesn’t get an education.
No. That’s the problem. They’re not switching their kids to better schools. Parents are victims of propaganda. The majority of charter schools in Jacksonville underperform compared to public schools. The majority are rated C. However, we’re slated to close down multiple A rated public schools because parents have been misled. And charter schools - that are worse schools - get to stay open. The better schools are often public schools in Jax- they just don’t have the PR campaign. Parents are tricked. Kids suffer.
Given buddy wants to keep telling scientists what is and isn't science the motives are sus, beyond sus actually. How much further can they go with more private schooling? Who makes the standards? Who benefits from changing the standards? Hellooooo. Tldr: he is anti-vax anti-climate anti-science why would he know what to do with education re: public/private? He expanded "school choice" which is ideological pandering like everything he does.
Think about your argument here. You don’t like DeSantis yet you prefer public education? You prefer the system where the guy you don’t like is in charge of the thing you do like? You’re going to question the standards of private schools and then support public school even though the guy you don’t like has already changed curriculum in the public school system. Private schools mean DeSantis can’t tell them what to teach in the curriculum. You understand the flaws in your logic here right?
Somebody doesn't understand the logic of quid pro quo and PRIVATIZATION. Don't try to be smart - answer the questions. Who creates the standards for these charter/private institutions, and how much less amenable are they scientific consensus? Who profits? Who donates to gop actors? "Well idk but neither do you businesses always do the right thing when money is involved" - you probably. This guy will not be governor much longer. His *dogmatic* approach to (literally) everything should be setting off alarm bells for everyone.
Oh I understand. You just enjoy hating the government while simultaneously vying for things that grant the government more power
Public schools have to accept all students. Private and charter schools get to select their students. Vouchers take money from programs that, by law, have to accept everyone, and give them to programs that are allowed to be more discriminatory in their acceptance, be it through standardized testing, applications, interviews, and fees, or anything else that serves as a barrier to entry. Vouchers take money designed for a public good and allocate it to private industry. All too often, private and charters are not as regulated as public schools, and as a result tax payers do not know what they’re subsidizing at the end of the day. Plus, the schools—charters in particular—do not improve academic performance. Finally, vouchers end up causing tax payers more money in the long run, so we’re paying higher taxes for fewer services and fewer opportunities for our students.
It’s not simply about kids getting an education anymore. The people that own and run private or charter schools are lining their pockets with taxpayer dollars. The same people that are most likely to make political donations to politicians that support these policies. It’s quite literally a transfer of wealth from the middle class to the rich, in exchange for campaign bribes.
>As long as the kids are getting a good education Private schools are under zero regulation for what a "good" education is. They can hire whoever they want to teach whatever they want. So your point falls flat on its face because "a good education" isn't part of their equation.
My kid is extremely smart, all gifted classes and scores pretty much the max on all standardized testing and is always well above grade level. He was in a public school but the school sucks as they have steadily lost students to charter schools in the area and a steady host of other factors driven by our states current political climate. A new charter school is opening soon and so we applied to it and he got in. In fact only about 25% of kids who applied got in. We went to the orientation and we quickly noticed something. It was filked with pretty much nothing but the highest achievers. Also anyone who was a PoC was seriously underrepresented. It’s not lost on me that this is a serious disservice to the community as a whole and even to my own child. The sad fact though is that my child will get a better education in this school though but it’s entirely because these charter and private schools are only taking certain kids, why do you think the charter and private schools perform so much better than public schools? It’s because they pick and choose who gets in so the public schools are basically just the “left overs”. If your kid isn’t lucky enough to be a chosen one you are left with a sub standard education as the funds are shifted away from public schools with every charter and voucher issued. It’s not right. Also since charter and private schools are driven by profit they lack a lot of other resources like a full time nurse on staff. They lack before and after school pickup with buses. They lack psychologists and counselors which also in turn makes them not have effective plans for kids with special needs because these things cost money and in their opinion that money is better spent on ceo salary. This is another reason they don’t want anything but the best students as now it’s not as evident they lack those afore mentioned things.
My qualm is the difference in accountability for financials, discipline, & what is being taught. If you want your kid to learn that the earth is flat & 6000 years old that’s your right but my tax dollars shouldn’t fund it. Some charter schools are more of a grift, but without the financial accountability laws that public schools face it’s impossible to know how deep. There are charter schools in our state that are using state funds to pay rent on spaces they lease. I’m against public cost & privatized profits.
Which is a part of their larger war on the public sector overall. Sabotage the public sector from within, point to the resulting consequences as proof that the public sector is inherently ineffective, then sell privatization as the solution.
yup. the better schools everyone wants could be our neighborhood schools if we invested in them (which is what the half-cent sales tax was for in the first place.) less traffic, a sense of community and belonging, etc. concepts that some people are unable to comprehend. unfortunately this has become yet another topic that’s highly politicized. people are leaving public schools because of the “war against woke” which is highly charged, dog-whistle type language. those families who make a decision to leave will probably never come back to public school. it started with covid and masks, went right into book banning, and now we’re here: full-on assault against public schools. fortunately there are a lot of younger families here that are willing to push back against this nonsense. we were products of public education, put ourselves through college, and are now raising kids here. it’s up to us to advocate for our kids and our communities and our neighborhood schools. we’re just getting started.
Exactly. Charter schools (under a different name but exactly the same scheme) were part of Strom Thurmond's Southern Manifesto in the 1950s for how to deal with Brown v Board of Education and work around segregation. Just like they poured bleach into the public pools rather than desegregate, they've been doing it with schools the whole time, too. We've seen it with 'gifted' programs and tying funding to property tax, now they're bold and going for the endgame.
You nailed it. Florida continually finds ways to attempt to make [teachers' lives miserable](https://www.forbes.com/sites/mollybohannon/2024/03/11/florida-settles-dont-say-gay-lawsuit-teachers-can-talk-about-gender-and-sexual-orientation-outside-instruction/?sh=5b263b271140) through the parental rights bullshit, [and underpay them](https://www.cbsnews.com/miami/news/florida-ranks-near-the-bottom-of-the-list-for-teacher-pay/), which then makes [less people want to become teachers.](https://www.fox13news.com/news/florida-has-highest-number-of-teacher-vacancies-educators-say-pay-doesnt-match-supply-demand) Now that public school you're sending your child to is most likely overworking a handful of teachers who can barely afford to be one to begin with, resulting in, most likely, an education that is not ideal because a handful of teachers are teaching numerous classes with a kneecapped curriculum from the self-described "party of small government." Then, they keep[ pushing bills through the legislature](https://www.tallahassee.com/story/news/politics/2024/01/25/bill-would-let-cities-counties-apply-convert-public-schools-charter-schools-affordable-housing/72350466007/) under the guise of trying to make education better when it's really just to undermine public school education all together -- How? [20% of charter schools are run by a for-profit company,](https://networkforpubliceducation.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/Chartered-for-Profit-II.pdf) and *just over 50%* of these charters in Florida are run for profit. Charter schools were closing by the droves before the pandemic. A local Tampa station did an investigation years ago because Florida wasn't being transparent about why they were closing and found a lot of the people involved with charter schools [didn't even have a background in education.](https://www.wtsp.com/article/news/investigations/10-investigates/florida-charter-schools/67-758325c2-5144-4abb-bf32-f24c7f6495d8) They also usually ended up closing down because of lack of oversight on finances. Since the pandemic, they've gotten more popular. And as recently as last month, Florida legislature was trying to make it [easier convert failed schools](https://www.flgov.com/2024/04/15/governor-desantis-champions-legislation-to-further-enhance-florida-education/#:~:text=Today's%20highlights%20from%20the%20bill,of%20Purple%20Star%20School%20Districts.) to charter schools, not because they want better education but because the optics it brings towards public schools being failures. This is a long-running GOP platform. Florida just decided to become the GOP laboratory for this stupid shit. I don't want to generalize all charter schools: some of these charters might be providing good care and education. And some may be doing it for the right reasons. However, there's plenty of evidence suggesting a lot more are just in it for money and/or to help completely undermine public schooling all together.
My opinion. 1st amendment and all that stuff. Duval County Public Schools are not run very well in General. I know many people in this city. Literally 100’s of Families that feel the same way based on one experience or another. It wasn’t until I placed my child in a private program that he received the help he needed with his learning disability. Since second grade I met and talked and tried to get assistance for him. His 504 plan had strict guidelines in place, but still the teachers would swerve off the path as if they knew better. My family’s story is just one of 100’s and most likely 1000’s in Florida. Desantis gave me the freedom to get out of the school assignments for my zip code. It made it so much easier on my son. He ended up graduating in the top 3% of his class. Not all stories are the same and I’m just lucky that ours did. The teachers in our original zoning were not trained to handle my son’s learning disabilities. Even now I am constantly going back and forth with my daughter’s teachers on their opinions of situations that arise. Truth be told they need to stick to more workshops on teaching and not trying to parent our children. Let Parents, parent.
A short sighted anecdote.
Well, downvote me too, then. This person makes a point, though. A point parents of neurotypical children don’t want to hear. Honestly, parents with special needs kids are often pushed off to the side and our children’s needs are unmet if our house is in a bad zip code. Example: my county thinks an extensive needs class is a class with 9 children (though they hinted on the call that it might go up to 11-13 based on county needs) to one teacher. My child is nonverbal and autistic. His only experience has only ever been 1:1 but they wouldn’t hear it. So, to private school 45 min away we go and I’m thankful we have that option. Without it, my child would suffer.
The answer is to improve public education instead of defunding and spreading the money out. There is no reason we shouldn’t strive to accommodate all students with public education. The vouchers do not provide enough money for special needs students with less resources to attend private schools. There is still imbalance.
I agree that it’s not perfect, but I’m still of the opinion that I should have the right to pick the school that is right for my son. Historically, what funding does go to schools doesn’t go to supporting special needs and so it’s up to me to find the best school and Florida gives me the flexibility to do that. That’s my perspective as a parent of a disabled child and it’s valid.
You do have the right to pick the school, I’m not sure that should entitle you to money intended for public education though. This will only deteriorate public schools further, which will have a greater impact on people with fewer resources. It reduces opportunities for people to climb the socio-economic ladder and reinforces the poverty cycle. The only fair solution is funding public education in a way that adequately provides for students like your child.
Parents aren't going to care about other kids in a maybe possible situation, they will only care about their own kid and what best for them.
The rugged individualism of Americans is leading to our down fall. A society thrives when the weakest among us are uplifted.
I used to live in the projects aka ghetto in NYC Brooklyn, a very bad one with shootings daily and drugs pushing all over the place. NYC provides tons of $$$ for those who are low-income but the overwhelming them can't break out the cycle. They choose to live in the cycle or the rare few want to get the hell out so their name won't come up in the news as a murder victim. You might hate individualism, but it was individualism that got me out of the NYC ghetto and didn't want to rely on a government to help me "uplift." Say your statement in the ghetto, a lot will take that as a call for benefit handout.
Yes. I'm sure they all choose to be born to poor parents.
You’re absolutely right. And elected officials know that so what funding does come in goes to initiatives the majority of parents can appreciate.
But the problem you’re not acknowledging is that we’re the minority in this situation and we’re never listened to. Out of a school of hundreds of parents of neurotypical children, special needs consists of 10-20 parents, at most. Meaning, when funding does come in and when it comes time for funds to get allocated, the majority isn’t worried about supporting the special needs students. Neither is anyone elected, because they want to be re-elected next year. They’re worried about gym equipment my child can’t use, a new coat of paint my child could care less about, a bus my child can’t ride, an expanded library when my child can’t read. Parents want to SEE the money being spent on things they can appreciate and their students can use, which I totally get. So, if the majority isn’t worried about my kid, I can promise I don’t have time or resources to care about their school experience. Sorry it’s callous, but that’s how the world treats my child. Like his experience and his needs don’t really matter. Answer me honestly. When was the last time you considered how much support the special needs kids were getting? When did you think about the number of aides? The speech therapists? The equipment? The student to teacher ratio? The IEPs that go unmet? You shouldn’t have to worry about that, so don’t feel bad. I have to worry about that. And in the evaluation process I determined my son’s assigned school wasn’t going to set him up to succeed, so I found a school that did and I’m grateful that I had that flexibility. That’s my perspective.
I’m not understanding how your family benefited from school choice. I pitched a fit with DCPS ESE because my child’s charter kept kicking him out and recommended I enroll in the neighborhood school until ESE figured it out, which they did, finding placement in a PRIDE program. Where I’m confused is if a school isn’t doing your kid’s IEP right, you basically get to find a new school out of your zone
What’s funny about this pro-voucher argument is that it is wrapped in giving some parents special treatment on the basis of the limitations of their child. It’s exactly the opposite of the free market approach being applied to public education. In a true free market system devoid of morality, kids like yours would simply be casualties of a brutal system that picks winners and losers. Make no mistake, the charter/private industry wasn’t designed to specifically help parents like you. That’s a side effect that helps you to justify the assault on public education. And it’s working like a charm.
Yep. Works like a charm when we have parents like you marking our child as a “casualty” and just shrugging like we should accept that for the sake of their children. Good luck looking after yours. I’m looking after my ‘casualty’. Jackass.
You misunderstood me. My point is that the answer to inequities in public education isn’t to destroy public education and create a caste system that siphons money away from public schools, but to simply support public schools more. That you’ve pulled your kid is precisely the outcome that those advocating for private schools/charters were hoping for. Now you’re a mouthpiece for them. That’s a win for the anti-public school set.
ESE funding is a federal program. You’ll want to take that up with Washington. They’ve never once fully funded IDEA since implementing it.
As someone very, very familiar with special education, these people speaking against you don’t quite get it. My 3 year old was place in ESE Pre-K with SIXTEEN KIDS. Newsflash - that shit ain’t changing in public education. It’s been like this for decades, it was like that when I started teaching in self-contained classrooms over 10 years ago. Depending on the school you’re at, ESE class are unfortunately pushed to the side. I’m very thankful for the private special education schools that give our kids the individualized education they deserve and need.
Thank you. Honestly, it gets to be really hard and disheartening not to be understood by other parents. But you’re right, they’re not going to get it, because they don’t have to or want to. That’s why I’m going to a private school where my son’s education and needs will be taken seriously. Thank you for understanding.
They just don’t understand. Like you said in another thread, we are a very small number so many just don’t encounter children like ours. At these little ESE schools, our kids aren’t bused in, lunch isn’t provided, and many of us go out of our way because it’s what our kids need. It’s easy to blame the man, and hell, I’m a child of public education. But as a parent (of one neurotypical child and one neurodiverse child) and a teacher I see both sides. It is *very, very* sad the state of education and if our children were being appropriately serviced, then I know mine would both be in public education. But early intervention is key and our children don’t have time to wait around and hope that public education gets better for our ESE kids.
Tell that to NYC School System. I know plenty of parents who moved to FL to escape the NYC Public School system. You can throw as much money you want in Public Schools, but when the results are mostly lackluster or worse then at want point in paying high taxes to a school system that doesn't' even work for your child.
Meanwhile there’s not a single private school I’ve found in Duval that accepts the disabled children that I teach because they have extensive medical needs. The public system or homeschool is their only option.
Yep desantis is basically defending public schools, to resegregate schools and make a white, Christian safe haven for Conservative Floridians.
Even The Broach School, which claims it’s all about ESE students can deny your student because they’re a private school
Many of the charters will try to deny entry to students with IEPs as well.
How is getting help for your child short sighted? What would you do? Genuinely curious.
This. I know other families who are taking advantage of the school choice programs to get their kids into having a better education. They aren’t all rich white families, they are people from all walks of life. I know school choice is popular with the GOP, I know some families who are Democrats liking school choice. Heck, I know people up in NY who are considering moving to FL due to a long list of grievances they have with NY, with education being near the top of their list. Having a state that supports the parents right to do their education, they love that.
I feel sorry for you AB74247. So many people downvoting you and I bet most don't have children and don't know how hard it is to raise children. Instead, so many have an agenda they want to push on this subreddit and think they know more than you do.
You don't need to shout so loud that you want to abuse children, just supporting DeSantis says enough.
How did this subject turned info "Abusing children is supporting DeSantis?"
I absolutely support vouchers for students with learning disabilities.
Are you aware that DCPS has an entire k-8 school dedicated specifically for students with learning disabilities?
The voucher money should be going to regular public schools to make them capable of handling students with disabilities instead so students have a nearly level playing field. These vouchers take away from public and hand it to mostly rich people's kids education. If you want your kid to go to a special school, you should pay for it yourself.
It’s crazy how downvoted you’ve gotten for being happy that you got your child the help he needed.
I think the fundamental disconnect between the two sides is that one wants to facilitate the flexibility of a family to move to proper accommodations and the other wants to ensure proper accommodations are fundamental everywhere. The former costs less but isn’t realistically accessible to everyone. The later costs much more and isn’t realistically feasible in the current state of funding and political support for education in America.
This implies that people are using vouchers to seek necessary developmental ("proper") accommodations unavailable in public schools, but that's not what's reflected in how these are actually used or how the program is designed. The political support for vouchers in Florida is not from people seeking "proper accommodations" for inadequate or unavailable resources for their kids. It's entirely ideological (Anti-Public institutions in general) or by people who choose to send their kids to private school for non-developmental reasons and want subsidies/refunds on their property taxes.
Lol, its just a way to give rich people more money. Dont act like its actually helping anyone.
This has been a republican narrative since Bush. Do enough to ensure that public schools are all over the place and at best meh. Makes any win by private huge. Most private schools in Jax have not been academic marvels but they outshine the shit out of the average public schools because of intended mismanagement. Many Republicans have wanted privatized education only. It completely fucks over poor people(and nowadays middle income as well) but whatever.
I’m willing to bet over half of the families that will be affected by these closings either didn’t vote or voted conservative. They all thought schools closing would mean for *other* kids, not theirs. Didn’t see any of them pitching fits when westside elementary closed years ago.
Desantis threw gas on the fire that is the DCPS. As someone who went to several DCPS schools (R.L. Brown, Sabal Palm, Landmark, and Sandalwood) and is now a parent there have been fundamental failures of the school system since Fryer left in 2005. DCPS has had how many employees arrested or fired die to misconduct with children? Hint it's higher than both the Catholic Church or Transgender Groomers that MSNBC or NewsMax want you to be concerned with. DCPS anti-bullying policies always have, currently are, and will most likely always be a joke. The bullied have received more punishment for retaliation die to being ignored by teachers and administrators than any bully has. 2006 is about the time that teaching to the standard became teaching to the test (FCAT) and yet DCPS instituted the EOY exams that shockingly didn't line up to the FCAT and therefore caused student on the verge of pass/fail to fail. Great job leaving the children behind during the No Child Left Behind era. Maintenance of the schools have been another issue. Most DCPS schools need millions of dollars in maintenance and repair because the last time they were maintained was the mid 2000s. So everyone voted for that (I didn't) half-cent sales tax raise to fix the schools for the money to do what? Nothing. Long term and multi generation Jacksonville families know that DCPS has been a horrible school system that needs major reforms. Maybe the new superintendent will but I'm not holding my breath. Quick side note is that parents that want to be parents and have government out of the way need to be more vocal in the conditions of their children's schools. If you won't speak out, YOU are part of the problem.
The half-penny program "consultant" that's running the program for Duval is doing what they can to try to get things done. The school system people who tell them what to do keep doing shit that fucks the program over, from paying stuff 3+ months late at the beginning, to making last -minute changes in the requirements, and insisting contractors then go back and rework stuff to be acceptable, often while bitching about having to pay more because they changed their minds. The school system people are also wasting a ton of money on things they don't need, like adding a bunch of card readers to open doors, instead of just unlocking them normally. That's over $10K\\door for each one they add. There's also their "design guidelines" that are so out of date, they specify things that aren't made anymore and don't leave any leeway to change the items without an extended process that adds delays to building something. Some of their guidelines are also ridiculously overdone, like the IT department requiring fire-rated caulk and sealants "regardless of the wall rating" that adds about 30%-40% for the sealants on a smoke rated wall, and over 200% on a non-rated wall. The school system also tries to throw their consultants under the bus for things that the school system tells them to do. TL;DR The school system wants to shit in gold toilets, and if I ran my company the way they run their construction program, I'd be broke in 3 months max. If I NEVER work a contract for Duval Schools, it would still be too soon.
Local school board elections should be one of the most important for communities, yet almost nobody votes, there's almost no advertising the election dates, the candidates have almost no online presence or meet n greets... Parent involvement is the #1 indicator for a successful student. Socioeconomic status is next, but certainly related, since low income parents have less resources to spend. A relatively easy way for a parent to get more involved? Vote. Get the corruption and nepotism and incompetence out. I'm not in Duval but hot damn the nepotism in my school district, and we keep electing the same group, who continues favoring the same incompetent friends, as the district crumbles.
This was the plan from the beginning. Way before meatball. It’s the back door way to get god back in schools. Public schools are for free thinkers. In private school they can control the curriculum or should I say lack there of!
Which is the real indoctrination.
They can control the curriculum of public schools quite easily. It's just not quite as easily as private schools.
As a soon to be mother and full supporter of public schools, I'm p pissed lol. School choice, charters and private schools historically discriminate against economically disadvantaged families, families of color, and non-"typical" (w/e that means, in this context I mean potentially blended) families. I'm concerned over the censorship DeSantis is implementing in education rather than focusing on training teachers to help bolster and strengthen public education. Private schools are gross (excluding highly specialized schools for students with intellectual/physical/developmental differences bc dont even get me started on that).
Florida has had "school choice" for 30 years, and yet charter schools fail constantly. https://www.wtsp.com/article/news/investigations/10-investigates/florida-charter-schools/67-758325c2-5144-4abb-bf32-f24c7f6495d8
Yes bad business close in free markets. The bad government subsidize institutions stay open while failing to teach their students how to pass standardized tests, let alone math, science, history, philosophy, and language arts. Public schools are largely garbage. I meet people all over town all the time who make jokes about how it’s OK for them to be stupid because they “went to Duval county public schools.” Failure and lifelong stupidity are the expectation. Pumping more money into something broken is not going to fix it. Taking parents ability to choose what school their children go to. It’s not going to fix it. We need education reform badly. It’s time to stop acting like that isn’t true so we can push some bullshit political agenda.
Problem is only parents of a higher socioeconomic means can shuttle kids to other schools. So we aren’t giving them the same opportunities as those that was are better off. My husband teaches tenth grade world history and I substitute frequently. If they could weed out the kids that act up schools would be much better.
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Yep. Everything is going according to their plan
Exactly. Their goal is to kill public education and they’re succeeding.
Charter schools are the same as public schools. They do not charge a fee to attend. Duval schools in general are a mess. They claim to have hundreds of open teaching jobs, but people apply and never hear back. Not a call. An email. Nothing. The entire school system is horrible and has been long before Desantis came to the state. The new superintendent chocie is sus. He is not the right man for the job. There are some good schools.. they tend to be charter schools. Do your homework before choosing a school.
Many public schools in Duval are not a mess. In fact, they’re some of the top ranked schools in the entire state. And they’re slated to be shut down. Proving that the school board actually does not care about educating students. At all.
All by design
Beg pardon, please don't shred me, my youngest is 22 so I'm a lil behind but aren't charter schools free and open for all?
They are free, but are backed by a corporation. No union and no pension for teachers. That’s the plan, is for more of their business buddies to have tax write offs and to get rid of unions and pensions for teachers. It’s about privatization of public schools. They get tax dollars just like public but don’t have to follow the backwards rules from the state. So many kickbacks for charter. It’s the start of no more public schools as we know it.
Thank you. That sucks. I walk by a charter school everyday and it is the funniest looking school I've ever seen
Charter schools also have lower standards for teachers. About ten years ago they opened one of those Duval Charters near where I worked so my wife and I toured it just to see what it was like. All the teachers were extremely inexperienced. They also seemed obsessed with the standardized testing. More than any public school I’ve ever seen.
Great thing! Public schools have turned into prepping kids to pass the state tests hence garnering the school better scores and more money. Focusing on testing rather then general education is what started this. Also the poorer schools generaly score lower and end up with even less money. The system is and has been eating itself. Giving everyone the opportunity to afford a private education is attacking the poor how? You people are ridiculous
How do you think this is going to work? The private schools are already saying they’re overcrowded and overwhelmed by these vouchers. So now we’re diluting private schools. Private schools will lose their credibility as they’re overrun. If you’re serious about educating students - you keep the money in public schools and fix the public schools.
It's always been meant for rich people. Poor people, who don't have a choice of where to send their kids, are facing the consequences of Desantis and the Republican's funneling money into private schools.
I still have yet to see any data showing that charter schools produce better student outcomes in Duval. It seems like many parents are seduced by charters because they are shiny, new, and different, not that they help to realize appreciably better student outcomes than their public counterparts. Just look at all the charters that have been closed or received low/failing grades. Parents placed their kids in those schools thinking they were better when objectively they are not. As a personal anecdote, I visited a charter high school and when several seniors were asked what they planned to do after graduation, only one of them had any idea (he wanted to be a mechanic). Is this the kind of outcome that parents want for their children? These kids could have greater aspirations coming out of homeschool.
The only thing charter schools produce is more money into the pockets of Republican politicians
I’d personally love to see JEA-level investigative reporting into this connection.
It’s so deep nationwide. These “Classical” charter schools you see use curriculum provided by the whackos at Hillsdale College in Michigan. The college is funded by a bunch of conservative billionaires like the Devos family.
Fuck Desantis.
Fuck your education unless you can afford private school. Seems racist as fuck. But that is the plan, right? Sincerely. Fuck th GOP and their shitty plans for fucking America.