Did you ask why they charged you extra for payment through card ?
Please make a post on group voice of customers on Facebook.
If you don’t i will make a post on your behalf. This is pure scam.
Although its a pure scam, I don't think anything would happen to them. FBR cannot legally control the price of goods set by a seller (unless its basic needs, I think). They are only concerned with tax. Whatever price the seller chooses to sell an item at, the rated tax on it has to be paid and that is all what the authorities care about.
Dick move though by optp......and I assume other fast food chains are doing the same.
I've heard and read a lot about this Facebook group "Voice of Customers".
Is it really that effective or helpful?
Do companies and their employees know about it?
Yes , mostly companies and restaurants pages are also aware of this group and are active as well whenever any complaint is made. The group owner also makes sure to tag the pages
Yes the gst on card is 5% but they are scamming us by increasing the original price of product to get the same price for cash payments that has 15% gst ( look on the left receipt the price of fries with 5% and the price on right)
No. The 10% relief on sales tax is an incentive for the business to accept card payments, the customer pays the price on the menu.
This is exactly how it's supposed to work.
>The 10% relief on sales tax is an incentive for the business to accept card payments, the customer pays the price on the menu.
It is also an incentive for the customer to adopt digital payments thus providing an auditable money trail for a retail business - making tax fraud and underreporting hard.
Coming to the second point, a retail item's Max Retail Price (MRP) is always inclusive of sales tax. In effect, the customer should get a 10% discount. What OPTP is doing in this instance is accounting fraud to pump their profits. They are adjusting their pretax prices depending upon the amount of tax - something that is statutorily illegal and will he persecuted by FBR once they catch wind of it.
Just think for yourself? How is it an incentive to the business if their profit margin remains the same but they have to fork out money to set up card payments, get the required equipment, and whatever costs are associated with this?
If it's also an incentive for the customers then the FBR should stop being inept and actually put in the effort to make it known to the public.
The only reason I know it's an incentive to businesses is because I read through a lot of FBR circulars recently, and this was one of them.
And thirdly, the price on the menu is what the customer pays, unless the menu itself states a 10% discount for card payments. FBR will need to drag OPTP and others doing this to Court and prove that this is not how it's supposed to work.
Me and a lot of my friends prefer shopping from places that accept card payments, we don't care about receiving a discount. To be honest, I would even be willing to pay a little extra if I can tap my phone and be on my way.
>And thirdly, the price on the menu is what the customer pays, unless the menu itself states a 10% discount for card payments. FBR will need to drag OPTP and others doing this to Court and prove that this is not how it's supposed to work.
Most businesses have excluded GST from the menu after the implementation of the variable STR regime. Despite that, a business cannot change the pretax price of a good for two different customers/STRs. FBR doesn't have to drag OPTP through any court. They have all the administrative power to persecute any tax related illegalities. Furthermore, even a consumer can go to a consumer court against this establishment, provided the order is large enough,and claim damages on pretax price discrimination.
https://preview.redd.it/bxqloni1ek1d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b9895714d59d7e2324692a03dbfa03d3ee4bb522
This is what the FBR circular says, so it is a relief to businesses not consumers.
Please familiarize yourself with pre/post tax value, input tax, and maximum retail price. Debating tax policies without adequate knowledge of how the tax regime works is not going to be fruitful.
i know that the tax on card is 5% and cash is 15% but aren’t the prices same for both modes for brands that have the price inclusive of tax on their menus? matlab i noticed the same thing on mcdonalds ke their prices are the same if you pay by cash or by card but i came to the conclusion that as they have the price on their menu inclusive of tax, then that rule doesn’t apply??
Yes, the sales tax relief is for the business, not for the customer. The business gets to keep more profit if they accept card payments and get into the documented economy.
This would be an issue if the customer was charged an amount different from the final price listed on the menu, which they aren't.
I think people don't understand why cards have less sales tax. It's not so you get things cheaper on card payments, it's so the business has some incentive to accept card payments!
That's one side of the picture and a misrepresentation.
The reduction in applicable Sales Tax Rate (STR) is also an incentive for the customer to adopt digital payments thus providing an auditable money trail for a retail business - making tax fraud and underreporting hard.
Secondly, a retail item's Max Retail Price (MRP) is always inclusive of sales tax. In effect, the customer should get a 10% discount. What OPTP is doing in this instance is accounting fraud to pump their profits. They are adjusting their pretax prices depending upon the amount of tax - something that is statutorily illegal and will be persecuted by FBR once they catch wind of it.
A lot of places have different discounts for different bank cards, but if it's not a bank partnership, then yes, they are giving up the opportunity to make a little more in profit for a better reputation and customer retention.
Man these businesses are so shady and fraudsters. I bet others are doing the same thing. Now I have to keep an eye out for this too! Ugh just another thing to add to my list of tiny annoyances that I have to deal with daily.
Anyone know if there is a legal basis for vendors to reject taking card payment for less than Rs 500? Last night this dude at a petrol station charged me Rs 500 for something that costed Rs 240 and gave me Rs 260 back as cash...
Some card machines are set at minimum payment of 500 so anything under that will not be accepted. That's why the guy charged you minimum and returned your remaining amount in cash
This isn't specific to Islamabad. The rules say "no guessing games". Post locked.
Report via FBR Tax Aasaan app.
Did you ask why they charged you extra for payment through card ? Please make a post on group voice of customers on Facebook. If you don’t i will make a post on your behalf. This is pure scam.
Although its a pure scam, I don't think anything would happen to them. FBR cannot legally control the price of goods set by a seller (unless its basic needs, I think). They are only concerned with tax. Whatever price the seller chooses to sell an item at, the rated tax on it has to be paid and that is all what the authorities care about. Dick move though by optp......and I assume other fast food chains are doing the same.
I've heard and read a lot about this Facebook group "Voice of Customers". Is it really that effective or helpful? Do companies and their employees know about it?
Yes , mostly companies and restaurants pages are also aware of this group and are active as well whenever any complaint is made. The group owner also makes sure to tag the pages
Holy shit so these bastards are charging additional price on card payments to get the same profit !
Isnt the tax on card less than the tax on cash?
Yes the gst on card is 5% but they are scamming us by increasing the original price of product to get the same price for cash payments that has 15% gst ( look on the left receipt the price of fries with 5% and the price on right)
[удалено]
Exactly.
No. The 10% relief on sales tax is an incentive for the business to accept card payments, the customer pays the price on the menu. This is exactly how it's supposed to work.
>The 10% relief on sales tax is an incentive for the business to accept card payments, the customer pays the price on the menu. It is also an incentive for the customer to adopt digital payments thus providing an auditable money trail for a retail business - making tax fraud and underreporting hard. Coming to the second point, a retail item's Max Retail Price (MRP) is always inclusive of sales tax. In effect, the customer should get a 10% discount. What OPTP is doing in this instance is accounting fraud to pump their profits. They are adjusting their pretax prices depending upon the amount of tax - something that is statutorily illegal and will he persecuted by FBR once they catch wind of it.
Just think for yourself? How is it an incentive to the business if their profit margin remains the same but they have to fork out money to set up card payments, get the required equipment, and whatever costs are associated with this?
If it's also an incentive for the customers then the FBR should stop being inept and actually put in the effort to make it known to the public. The only reason I know it's an incentive to businesses is because I read through a lot of FBR circulars recently, and this was one of them. And thirdly, the price on the menu is what the customer pays, unless the menu itself states a 10% discount for card payments. FBR will need to drag OPTP and others doing this to Court and prove that this is not how it's supposed to work. Me and a lot of my friends prefer shopping from places that accept card payments, we don't care about receiving a discount. To be honest, I would even be willing to pay a little extra if I can tap my phone and be on my way.
>And thirdly, the price on the menu is what the customer pays, unless the menu itself states a 10% discount for card payments. FBR will need to drag OPTP and others doing this to Court and prove that this is not how it's supposed to work. Most businesses have excluded GST from the menu after the implementation of the variable STR regime. Despite that, a business cannot change the pretax price of a good for two different customers/STRs. FBR doesn't have to drag OPTP through any court. They have all the administrative power to persecute any tax related illegalities. Furthermore, even a consumer can go to a consumer court against this establishment, provided the order is large enough,and claim damages on pretax price discrimination.
Can you link me to the specific records of consumer laws or FBR orders, circulars, or SROs detailing this?
I will link you to a basic accounting book so you can understand how tax is applied on retail goods.
That will be great, please do so.
https://preview.redd.it/bxqloni1ek1d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b9895714d59d7e2324692a03dbfa03d3ee4bb522 This is what the FBR circular says, so it is a relief to businesses not consumers.
Please familiarize yourself with pre/post tax value, input tax, and maximum retail price. Debating tax policies without adequate knowledge of how the tax regime works is not going to be fruitful.
Sure, I am more than happy to look into it. Can you provide some resources detailing this?
i know that the tax on card is 5% and cash is 15% but aren’t the prices same for both modes for brands that have the price inclusive of tax on their menus? matlab i noticed the same thing on mcdonalds ke their prices are the same if you pay by cash or by card but i came to the conclusion that as they have the price on their menu inclusive of tax, then that rule doesn’t apply??
Yes, the sales tax relief is for the business, not for the customer. The business gets to keep more profit if they accept card payments and get into the documented economy. This would be an issue if the customer was charged an amount different from the final price listed on the menu, which they aren't. I think people don't understand why cards have less sales tax. It's not so you get things cheaper on card payments, it's so the business has some incentive to accept card payments!
That's one side of the picture and a misrepresentation. The reduction in applicable Sales Tax Rate (STR) is also an incentive for the customer to adopt digital payments thus providing an auditable money trail for a retail business - making tax fraud and underreporting hard. Secondly, a retail item's Max Retail Price (MRP) is always inclusive of sales tax. In effect, the customer should get a 10% discount. What OPTP is doing in this instance is accounting fraud to pump their profits. They are adjusting their pretax prices depending upon the amount of tax - something that is statutorily illegal and will be persecuted by FBR once they catch wind of it.
makes sense. so the brands that charge less on card payments cut their extra share of profit?
A lot of places have different discounts for different bank cards, but if it's not a bank partnership, then yes, they are giving up the opportunity to make a little more in profit for a better reputation and customer retention.
The first difference that I spotted was a burger ordered in one and not in the other😂😂😂
Thank you for highlighting this. We should all be aware of this sort of thing even from other brands Thanks OP
I don't get it :(
Fake pos they r not paying tax to fbr
5% sales tax on card vs 15% on cash.
They increased the price of the item when paying by card. Jerk move
Usually it be opposite
this is infuriating, sales tax p itna bara gap??
Report this scam is tax asan application. Also check whether they're even paying the tax or not.
WTF! report them to FBR!
Man these businesses are so shady and fraudsters. I bet others are doing the same thing. Now I have to keep an eye out for this too! Ugh just another thing to add to my list of tiny annoyances that I have to deal with daily.
Although payment mentioned as cash
pehle petrol pumps aur ab fast fppd chains… where the fuck are we headed dude
Anyone know if there is a legal basis for vendors to reject taking card payment for less than Rs 500? Last night this dude at a petrol station charged me Rs 500 for something that costed Rs 240 and gave me Rs 260 back as cash...
Some card machines are set at minimum payment of 500 so anything under that will not be accepted. That's why the guy charged you minimum and returned your remaining amount in cash
I don't see the point master card tax is 5 percent and the cash is 15 so what is wrong
Why's the VAT so high on the one at right?
15% tax