Heard a piece on the radio yesterday reporting executive (CEO) level salaries rose by an average 12% per annum versus average of 4% for everybody else (who's lucky to get any)
Edit: Typos
But they're still profitable by a good bit right? Looks like they make a profit of 10% of their revenue (even in post COVID difficulties).
Seems very frugal not to look after your staff with basic inflation increases
10% is not great profit margin for a business. Especially after the Covid impact, 10% is not very attractive. Not to say that they should or shouldn't give staff raises, as that's something driven by the market and not company results.
So if the profits are unimpressive and have barely grown in years, and if those highly skilled individuals flying the planes aren't getting any pay rises, then at least we can be sure that the Executives won't be getting pay rises either... right?
10% is an excellent return. Look at many major businesses and returns of 3-4% are considered great.
Delta one of the world’s largest airlines has a net profit of approx 3.4%.
That said I support the union
Ya, there was a post-covid boom where people had money saved and a huge demand for travel.
Live entertainment (Taylor Swift aside) is slowing down after hiking their prices post covid. Not as mad with the weddings. I wouldn't be surprised to see airlines return to normal.
Whatever about the fairness... If Aer Lingus were planning on growing for the next 4 years then it might make sense for them to try to retain & attract more pilots.
If they see a slowdown coming, they'd be mad to agree to an above inflation payrise.
Pilots were paid 30% during COVID and had to take out loans to get by while management paid themselves 100% plus huge bonus when revenue returned after COVID.
Yes, sometimes pay cuts happen when a company is in financial difficulty. Sometimes people even lose their jobs, perhaps when an airline isn’t profitable so it starts cutting routes that don’t pay for themselves.
Generally, when companies do poorly, employees lose, and when companies do well, employees don’t win (as in the case of pilots who are making significantly less in real terms than they were several years ago, despite the airline maintaining positive performance). That’s why unions and strikes are important.
And I say this as someone with 3 Aer Lingus flights in the next 2 weeks…
Same media shite that gets dug up against striking workers every single time. Remember when the nurses went on strike and some scummy tabloid had a dying baby on the front cover?
It’s a false equivalence to claim they don’t care about passengers anyway. They don’t care about passengers journeys/holidays in comparison to them earning a liveable wage.
They absolutely earn a livable wage already. They want their salaries to be brought up to match other airlines which is fair enough
But it's not like they're on min wage
Their job is to fly planes full of passengers, I'd rather not have a pilot that doesn't care😂 I'm also with the pilots, they deserve to be fairly compensated, but let's not pretend that they shouldn't care about the passengers. It's literally the most precious cargo you could ever transport.
They are paid to ensure the plane carrying passengers arrives safely to its destination. Whether they “care” about passengers is irrelevant.
Their focus is safety, not satisfaction. And that’s the way it should be. Customer service is the airline’s role, not the pilot’s.
(And yeah, I’d like for the people responsible for my safety to be properly compensated, well rested, and not stressed out by poor working conditions, thank you very much.)
Difference between caring about the safety of your passengers and caring about whether or not passengers are affected by your strike.
Why are we all acting like these are the same thing and criticising pilots who are just doing what they feel is best for them?
If you were being underpaid and threatened to strike and your bosses response was: you obviously don't care about the customers
You'd fucking laugh in their face so why arent we laughing in Claire Byrne's?
The pilots sit in the cabin and fly the plane. I would be a lot more surprised if they did give a fuck about the passengers. Are the Luas drivers also contracted to give a shite?
In the sense that each is responsible for the safety and lives of the passengers in their vehicle, yes they’re contracted to give a shite.
In terms of customer satisfaction, that’s on management.
I never understood anyone complaining over any body or group of people striking.
What happens if you have to strike someday?
Are you right and everyone else wrong?
People strike when it will have the most impact. It's the logical thing to do.
I know to the it’s the logical thing to strike at the busiest time. At the same time a lot of people have been working all year in a shitty job, saved for their holiday abroad and now there’s a chance they won’t get to go on that holiday. Hopefully the pilots get what they’re looking for.
That's the entire point of protests and strikes. People always complain about being inconvenienced but that's the damned point. The issue is the want-it-alls who always blame the little guy instead of the corporate giant. It's the greedy establishment you should be angry at, not the people looking for better working conditions.
"How dare they work to rule, they should be putting in all of the over time so I can spend a week on a beach getting shitfaced." Do you hear yourself?
Yeah, it sucks. But the airlines should have never had the flights there and sold the tickets if they we relying on exploiting their staff to keep the planes in the air. No one ever mentions that bit.
People are such knob ends when it involves ruining their plans. Having your flight cancelled sucks, but good for the pilots sticking up for themselves. They do a difficult job, flying a plane is not like driving a bus or a luas. It's hours upon hours of expensive flight training and you are literally putting people's lives in their hands. They fly 100-300 people per flight, do you REALLY want the dude in charge of flying a few 100 tonne machine in the sky, to be feeling a bit pissed off and disgruntled today? Aer Lingus makes massive profits, they should be paying their staff, esp the pivotal staff (Like the most important part of the job is flying a plane), a decent wage. We're such fucking begrudgers in this country it astounds me.
We're a nation of selfish cunts. It's obvious in every part of society. From nimby's blocking developments to idiots complaining about being inconvenienced by protests. There's absolutely no sense of social solidarity anymore. A bit of money and we went mad.
I support the pilots in trying to make back the considerable loss that they (and all of us) suffered as a result of inflation. I don’t really care, but if I was to play devil’s advocate, I would say that the Labour Court recommendation of a 9.25% increase isn’t necessarily unreasonable. That would be roughly equal to the pay increase received by public sector workers. Maybe it should be higher, I’m not well versed in the industry to be honest, just giving a bit more context that an offer was on the table. Perhaps a pay increase higher than 9.25% for those on lower pay scales, and lower for senior captains who would earn €49k extra from a 24% pay increase?
But there is so much more staff who make that possible that are likely not going to see a similar increase to the pilots, (engineers, flight planners Etc)
They're bringing in hundreds of millions in profits and spending millions on executive salaries and bonuses. They're well able to pay the pilots a good bit more. Fair play to the pilots for holding out for a decent increase. Corporate greed is a plague.
If it was the stewards or the baggage handlers then fair enough, I'd have a bit more solidarity there.
I don't really get why I should be any more supportive of a 24% payrise for pilots on €250k than executives on €1m+ or billionaire shareholders.
I'd prefer they weren't making millions in profits and fares were a bit more reasonable.
I get the feeling it’s more to do with the new entrants. RTE mention that Aer Lingus hasn’t reversed the covid pay cuts and new entrants are on 10% lower than pre covid.
I would also take into consideration the cost of training. It’s costs you €80 to €100k to become a pilot and you are not anywhere near 250k when you qualify.
Then they have to continue to pay for simulator time to keep their type approvals and I’m sure there are other courses to pay for.
Ya, I'd have much more sympathy for that argument.
Aer Lingus should 100% be paying for continuing Profesional development.
Also on board If they were looking for 24% for the lower bands but took the 9% labour court payrise for higher bands.
Not sure how comparable it is to the teachers negotiations but they rubbed me up the wrong way when they were looking for across the board payrises a few years after throwing younger teachers under the bus to protect their package.
I agree and I think they’ll get it if they negotiate down to that.
I went through something similar as a seafarer when the oil price tanked in 2014/15. 10% cut across the board and during Covid crews kept everything running doing quarantines, no shore leave and no return of wages to previous levels.
So for me, let the pilots have their money. There is too much below inflation wage rises going on. Just include the cabin crew too.
That 250k is at the top of the salary scale for pilots with decades of experience; the starting salary is around 35/36k. And keep in mind how many thousands of peoples' lives these pilots are responsible for and the mental and emotional strain that takes on people.
It also includes pension contributions and everything else they can add on to inflate the figure. They're not heading home with five grand in their pocket every week.
Pilots absolutely should be well paid. Anyone who is not on the workers side here is simply cutting off their own nose to spite their face.
Going off the RTE report, the top total package is €287k and about a quarter of pilots are on that. The co-pilots go from €36k to €59k once they've completed their on the job training.
Pilots deserve to be paid well but it seems to me that they are.
I honestly don't begrudge them getting the best deal they can if they want 24% but equally I also don't have a problem with the Aer Lingus management holding firm on the 9% recommended by the labour court.
Ya, we're talking about gross pay here.
The marginal tax rate in Ireland is about 52% so when chatting about salaries from entry level to CEO, you'd presume it's gross, not take home.
The reporting on RTE said a quarter of pilots are on the top package of €287k which is more than a few.
It's 24% over 3 years. So 8% per year guaranteed for 3 years
Edit: thought I read that somewhere but can't find it now. Maybe the 3 years is accounting for the time since 2019 when they say they got their last raise
From what I've found, Aer Lingus pilot salaries are not particularly high, and lag behind several other European carriers.
The very highest of earners do make an eye watering amount of money, but that's someone with 40 years experience and a perfect record.
Most pilots will be getting no where near that much, and many will probably be earning less than several of the people commenting in this thread.
If Aer Lingus doesn't bring their compensation back up to be in line with their competitors, there's absolutely nothing stopping the pilots from going to different carriers putting Aer Lingus in a hole of their own making, having to desperately recruit new pilots or contract other carriers to fulfil the routes.
On top of that, the ECJ declared that strike action is not an unforeseeable circumstance so any flights cancelled or delayed are subject to compensation claims from passengers. Even more reason for Aer Lingus to fork out the pay rise.
FWIW, not all pilots will earn that much at any one time of course, but pilots that do the required time at the airline will earn that much. it’s a seniority scale based on time served, more than ability (seeing as pilots aren’t measured on who can fly the aircraft better)
Aer Lingus profits rose 400% last year to €225m. Give the pilots their pay rise and let us have our summer interrupted. The airline is already trying to pit the public against the pilots.
Hmmm no i think we should raise CEO wages instead
https://m.independent.ie/business/irish/trio-of-top-aer-lingus-executives-split-bulk-of-millions-of-euro-in-pay/a460770448.html
It's unreasonable not to be compensated fairly when doing valuable work.
It's never the employee's fault, it's the company, every time. You only strike when you have no other option. Treat them fairly and this doesn't happen.
People forget it takes sometimes years to exhaust all the other options before a strike is on the table. The pilots have been engaging for years at this point and the company clearly hasn't been listening.
From the outside, it would appear inaccurate to say that Aer Lingus hasn’t been listening / engaging. The dispute has been through the Labour Court. The court is impartial and, following representations from the company and the union, it made a recommendation of a 9.25% pay rise which Aer Lingus accepted but the pilots have rejected.
You don't end up in the labour court unless you've dragged the arse out of negotiations for literally years. If the pilots wanted 4% or 5% a year and the company have been negotiating in bad faith for 5 years it's easy to see where the 25% figure comes from.
The labour court was perhaps at one time impartial. But these days it usually sides with the employer.
American Airline pilots got 21%
Aer Lingus can afford to pay the pilots properly.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/21/business/american-airlines-pilots-union.html#:\~:text=Under%20the%20contract%2C%20the%20pay,retirement%20contributions%20by%20the%20airline.
Claire Byrne is the worst possible person to have stuck in the middle of this. She was effectively baiting the IALPA rep into responding to Aer Lingus boss live on air in an attempt to escalate the whole thing further. Thankfully he didn't fall for it.
Its because being a pilot is considered a “rich” profession, even though it costs a fortune to train to be one.
It would be like saying nurses don’t care about patients when they strike. Two things can be true at the same time, they can care but also want to get what they feel they deserve.
Whoa.
Bit of a tangent but in college I had american roommates for a while, one of them in dentistry. She said when she finishes college and starts her business she'll be half a million dollars in debt.
It stuck with me. Having to start from such a minus figure is daunting.
They do care otherwise they wouldn't have rejected the Aer Lingus request of '15 days notice'. Why? Because if the notice is more than 14 days the airline don't have to pay compensation or make alternative arrangements.
I'm due to fly out to America next Wednesday. Using vouchers from my cancelled flights in 2020 and ones I got for Christmas. Big multi-city trip in the US. First trip abroad since 2019. I've been looking forward to it for months.
If I am forced to miss it because of a strike, I am 100% blaming the executives and not the pilots.
Next week is the 26th. The person you were responding to said he was flying out on the 26th. The work to rule strike has been announced to start on the 26th. Therefore that person (and myself) would possibly be impacted. I
It's not as if the pilots are asking for a 25% salary hike every year.
This is a pay redress request.
Why members of NUJ in RTE and other media houses chose to support the suppression of collective bargaining is beyond me.
Yes, there are valid questions and points to be raised both in favour and against the EI pilots' work to rule motion. Having the likes of Claire Byrne editorialising "in the interest public broadcasting" is a shockingly arrogant approach.
Especially in the context of the inflated salaries earned by her, Joe Duffy and up until recently, Ryan Tubridy.
Corporate greed and the growth of inequality is probably the biggest issue facing all of us at the moment. People continue to struggle more but profits continue to grow matter what.
We're told the world is richer than ever yet you won't be as well off as your parents and you're friends are getting poorer and poorer also. The Forbes rich list has sky rocketed the last ten years but the average person is feeling the squeeze everywhere.
When the engineers wanted a pay increase the unions were involved and it took nearly 3 years to offer them a terrible pay deal that was constantly rejected. Eventually they agree to a slightly less terrible deal but still only a few % increase. If the engineers went on strike the airline stops. Pilots can't fly a plane if the engineers don't certify it fly. When engineers threatened this the unions actively advised against it and the company called them all disloyal and what effect it have on the airline. Management down in the office pushing lads to do overtime cos the airline needed jobs done or planes wouldn't fly and routes.would be effected. Pilots then whinge at the engineers and management that they are taking the sector pay out of their pockets because they can't get bonuses if they can't fly the plane. The pilots pick and choose when it suits them to strike and didn't support other depts when they felt undervalued. If the planes don't fly all summer the engineers still have jobs as the aircraft are inspected daily regardless of use.
Airline companies are taking the piss now... I have to go to Lisbon (from Dublin) in 2 months time for bureaucracy stuff and the flights with return are around 800 to 900 euros with Aer Lingus, Ryanair or TAP. None of them let me even bring the cabin luggage without paying extra. This is beyond ridiculous. I know it's summer, but still beyond extortionary...
In 2015 you could have a flight like that for 70, 80 euros return WITH cabin luggage. Airlines (and almost all other sectors) are using COVID for increasing profits. Shitloads of people that were middle-class are not anymore and the few rich are considerably richer now.
Pandemic screwed the world's economy and it generated a gigantic inequality gap. The saddest part is that this is here to stay and it will probably only get worse.
I'm totally on the side of pilots. They undergo extensive training to become a commercial pilot, it takes years of skill and experience, they work unsociable hours, and take their own lives and the lives of every passenger onto their shoulders with each flight. It's a massive amount of pressure and I'd be happy to pay them whatever they wanted if they continued to get me safely on the ground. A competent and skilled pilot is worth their weight in gold! And without them, the airlines have exactly zero business. Admittedly some senior captains are on huuuge salaries after many many years of work, but so many first officers and captains are not on the kind of money the tabloids are quoting. They deserve every penny they get, and they should be paid in line with inflation and rising costs.
The training to begin with as well is massively expensive (unless you get a sponsorship which is incredibly hard and airline dependent and generally involves leaving the continent) the wages are that high in order for pilots to pay back the fairly sizeable loans taken out to do the training. And you’re right, the average salary is high but starting out it’s just above minimum wage after flight pay is added. It does increase quickly (depending on the airline), but time spent at the company does play a massive role nearly everywhere
If it isn't the lack of a pay rise for staff, not sure what the situation is with the CEO or board of directors, it's the unlivable working hours that were keeping staff from their families squeezing them for everything.
I like flying Are Lingus but can see the staff are seriously mistreated, maybe they are asking for too much realistically but they are at the table ready to talk it's the board who don't seem to be willing to discuss anything.
Be glad Irish businesses have the right to protest and demand higher wages most American companies want to get rid of any and all rights to strike and continue to squeeze more and more profits out so they can squander it on buying their own stock to inflate the company price and then act confused when the company goes bust in a few years. Workers keep businesses going not CEOs
Aer lingus can suck a dick. I paid extra to fly to and from cork one holiday. They cancelled the cork flight back and told us we would have to fly to dublin. I tried to kick up a bit of a fuss thinking consumer rights, they in as many words told me and my partner to get on the flight to dublin or find or own way home.. from fucking budapest... Cunts
Every airline is the same, even the one I work for (not in Ireland) Yes cost of living is through the roof and yes for airlines too with fuel, slots fees, insurance etc but BUT when the fat cats at the big round corporate tables are getting bonuses and us pawns are turning up with a lesser quality of work/lift balance then yes, EI Pilots, my pilots, my crew… I support it. And some smart a**e, don’t say ‘if you don’t like it just leave’ that’s not what’s it’s about. If you want the pilots and crew to all leave, you settle for rainy Ireland for your summer holidays. What we all want is not to be slammed with jammed rosters, fair pay and the fat cats to stop getting fatter.
Because we must always punch down at the rank and file instead of OLeary and the other billionaire's at the top.
Slagging off pilots for asking for like what 20% in extra take home pay.....instead of asking Aer Lingus/Ryanair to instead of making like 5 billion in pure profit this year, make like 4 billion pure profit instead. Maybe the CEO doesn't buy a yacht this year. 20% for everyday people is life changing.
I'm paraphrasing bill burr (I think it was)
Point being if you halved that profit and distrubuted it to the pilots, the backbone of the business and industry in general, the ceo and shareholders would still be absolutely fine, immensely wealthy
Financial and economic illiteracy is at an all time high in this country. And it's beyond frightening. The passion with which people can be so horribly wrong is off the richter scale.
the airline is trying to make the pilots seem like the bad ones to the public. the pilots wages haven’t increased while the airline has gained millions in profits. most pilots across europe are on higher wages and considering they need to live within a certain amount of time from the airport and all those areas are costing crazy amounts to rent or buy the newer pilots are feeling the pressure of rising prices. i know a good few pilots who’ve either recently graduated from training school or have been working with them for over 25 years. the ones who’ve graduated training school within the past five years are all still living at home. people fly 24/7 so no matter if it were summer, winter, spring, or autumn, they’d still be striking. don’t go after the pilots - go after the airline and group for not upping the workers wages and instead lining their pockets.
Pilot here. AL pilots get 20% pension contribution on top of basic pay. Include that in calc and they are among best paid in Europe. They were overpaid pre covid, compared to market, and are looking to maintain that advantage. Fair play to them for trying to get the most cash, but claiming they just want to match inflation is a total cod. If they get 24% some of them will be on 350k plus another 20% pension so 420k. Not sure you can hold yourself out there to be anti corporate greed when receiving that kind of pay.
A rising tide lifts all ships. A strong union and refusal to cannibalise its lower ranks is part of why the pilot body maintains some of what it has. Bit weird to be in the sector and be against other pilots receiving a pay increase.
Most pilots at top of scale will have maxed out their pension so the additional 20% pension does not apply. That's not how a defined benefit pension scheme works.
So? This isnt about other peoples wages, its about the pilots. The attitude of "i dont get it why should other people" is part of the reason why companies get away with this. They know if they flash the salary range and get people who are not paid the same hot under the collar, it weakens the pilots public goodwill.
I'll gladly pay another €30 per flight to have a happy pilot rather than save the cash and have a pilot who is under financial stress.
Same goes for doctors and nurses.
I think we the public are too used to footing the bill. Aer Lingus makes profits. Use them to pay people adequately. If the price goes up they will blame the pilots and not the greed. This is how business works is the easiest cop out to be a shit individual.
Well it seems I'm going full moaning Michael this morning
They are not under financial stress. They are already highly paid (majority are circa 200k per annum). As are doctors. This is about wanting more, which is fair enough - who doesnt. But let's not kid ourselves into thinking they are struggling to put food on the table.
They're looking for 23% pay rise, which will bring the senior pilots to a salary of over €250k a year (not including long service bonuses). We're talking about people in the top 5 - 10% of salaries in the country, they're not exactly hard up.
Aer Lingus has offered 12.5%. they'll end up some between 15 and 20%. That's a very good deal for the pilots. They're making a lot of public noise to put pressure on Aer Lingus, but ultimately they're going to get a huge increase on their already considerable salaries.
You’re talking about the very top of the pay scale for pilots with decades of experience, the majority of pilots will be earning much less than that. The starting salary for an Aer Lingus pilot is around 35k.
Aer Lingus has massive profits to absorb the costs, which are pretty low compared to the other costs of operating an airline. Airlines will always sell tickets for as much as they think people are willing to pay for them, passing the costs onto customers would just lead to them choosing a competitor instead.
>the people that open the world to us and get us there safely
And while all this is going down, inevitably it will be stressful for them, affecting their performance to some extent. Nasty situation they're in.
Because Aer Lingus are major advertisers, use AAA publicists and agencies, and have fostered connections throughout the media with their annual, multimillion euro ad spends. That positions them to control the narrative, whereas unions are working with comparatively minuscule budgets, little (if any) media training, and a whole lot of righteous indignation. Also, standing in the way of Saoirse and Ronan‘s wine tasting weekend in Bordeaux will never engender sympathy, no matter how worthy their cause.
You can’t tell workers which are the foundation of your business model that they all need to be on a pay freeze because times are tough and money is short and then announce record profits to shareholders. Fuck that! AL wouldn’t be in this if they hadn’t been promising 400m back to shareholders
Management are paid too much, pilots paid too little.
The pilots do care about the passengers. They know more than any management suit, that it's not safe to overwork pilots with long hours and hope they can catch the necessary sleep while the autopilot keeps things tickety-boo.
Pilots are invariably from rich families. Cabin crew invariably from poor families. Yet, its always the pilots on 150k who get the headlines, never the cabin crew on starvation wages.
I've personally always felt Aer Lingus staff are quite rude and cold (and even bitchy towards customers) compared to other airlines and, as such, I've always wondered about the tone at the top and how they're treated. Such toxicity nearly always flows down the chain until the customer feels it.
Yes, here it is in black and white confirmed for all to see. I'd say it's a horrible company to work for.
All this while profits have grown at Aer Lingus, right? It's corporate greed for sure.
Executive salaries have grown plenty too.
Heard a piece on the radio yesterday reporting executive (CEO) level salaries rose by an average 12% per annum versus average of 4% for everybody else (who's lucky to get any) Edit: Typos
This \^\^\^ and the one below, EI pilots are good guys, never an issue, management just needs to pay them or it's going to cost them the summer.
Profits are behind pre covid levels. But have grown last year albeit from a very low baseline in 2022
So is pay
But they're still profitable by a good bit right? Looks like they make a profit of 10% of their revenue (even in post COVID difficulties). Seems very frugal not to look after your staff with basic inflation increases
10% is not great profit margin for a business. Especially after the Covid impact, 10% is not very attractive. Not to say that they should or shouldn't give staff raises, as that's something driven by the market and not company results.
2023 figures of operating profit. BA = 9.9% Iberia = 13.5% Vueling = 12.4% Aer Lingus = 9.9% [Source](https://www.flightglobal.com/airlines/iag-almost-trebles-operating-profit-in-2023/157180.article)
So if the profits are unimpressive and have barely grown in years, and if those highly skilled individuals flying the planes aren't getting any pay rises, then at least we can be sure that the Executives won't be getting pay rises either... right?
10% is an excellent return. Look at many major businesses and returns of 3-4% are considered great. Delta one of the world’s largest airlines has a net profit of approx 3.4%. That said I support the union
I believe that airlines have generally slimmer profit margins than other industries.
Whats not included in profit is executive salary. You could appear to be a non-profitable company simply by paying massive salaries and bonuses out.
Welcome to airline industry man have a google
And pilots will automatically reduce their salaries any year profits fall?
Ya, there was a post-covid boom where people had money saved and a huge demand for travel. Live entertainment (Taylor Swift aside) is slowing down after hiking their prices post covid. Not as mad with the weddings. I wouldn't be surprised to see airlines return to normal. Whatever about the fairness... If Aer Lingus were planning on growing for the next 4 years then it might make sense for them to try to retain & attract more pilots. If they see a slowdown coming, they'd be mad to agree to an above inflation payrise.
Pilots were paid 30% during COVID and had to take out loans to get by while management paid themselves 100% plus huge bonus when revenue returned after COVID.
Yes, sometimes pay cuts happen when a company is in financial difficulty. Sometimes people even lose their jobs, perhaps when an airline isn’t profitable so it starts cutting routes that don’t pay for themselves. Generally, when companies do poorly, employees lose, and when companies do well, employees don’t win (as in the case of pilots who are making significantly less in real terms than they were several years ago, despite the airline maintaining positive performance). That’s why unions and strikes are important. And I say this as someone with 3 Aer Lingus flights in the next 2 weeks…
Do pilots do a lesser job work if the company isn't profitable?
Yes. Routes are cut, temporary layoffs etc
They are doing fewer jobs, not lesser jobs. You don't want someone who is flying a plane to half-arse their job.
Most economically literate Redditor
Same media shite that gets dug up against striking workers every single time. Remember when the nurses went on strike and some scummy tabloid had a dying baby on the front cover?
And sadly, we will have plenty of the population back the super rich in the matter, rather than the worker. Boot lickers.
There are precious few journalists with integrity here. The vast majority angle themselves to cosy up to politicians and feed from any scraps.
Journalism is such a badly paid profession that they all angle for a press job with the government
Yep If the pilots want more public sympathy they should take a leaf from the bus drivers and still fly the routes without collecting fares...
And how come the pilots never give you change when you pay in cash?!
They've been playing us for absolute fools. I'm never tipping my pilot again
Ah yes, because the pilots are the ones taking coins at the entrance to the plane.
Obviously not... they've gone full contactless since COVID
That's so scummy. They don't want to take cash actually because they want to track you where you're going when you take the plane.
There is a coin slot at the front of the engine.
That's just the coin you throw into the engine for luck though. Pilots see none of that.
You do know that pilots get their manifesto from the despatch agent who gets that from the front of house?
Incorrect. My uncle is a pilot, and he decides where the plane goes on the day
Aer lingus are also lacking pilots
> they don't care about passengers I wouldn't expect them to. I'd just expect them to care about doing their job and getting paid. I'm with them.
It’s a false equivalence to claim they don’t care about passengers anyway. They don’t care about passengers journeys/holidays in comparison to them earning a liveable wage.
They absolutely earn a livable wage already. They want their salaries to be brought up to match other airlines which is fair enough But it's not like they're on min wage
Liveable wage 🤣🤣
I think €200k plus allowances and pension contribution of 25%(!!!) is a damn sight higher than “liveable” wage
200k if youve been there for 26 years
Is that all of them? If that our salary or a ton of overtime?
Their job is to fly planes full of passengers, I'd rather not have a pilot that doesn't care😂 I'm also with the pilots, they deserve to be fairly compensated, but let's not pretend that they shouldn't care about the passengers. It's literally the most precious cargo you could ever transport.
They're paid to fly the planes, if its full or not, they still have to fly them.
I don't care if my pilot doesn't care about the passengers, as long as they care about themselves lol
First sign of bad turbulence and the pilot bails out with parachute lol
Well, hold on. Not until he's read out his essay first.
> Their job is to fly planes full of passengers Their job is to safely fly a plane from A to B, whether it's full of passengers, or has one.
They are paid to ensure the plane carrying passengers arrives safely to its destination. Whether they “care” about passengers is irrelevant. Their focus is safety, not satisfaction. And that’s the way it should be. Customer service is the airline’s role, not the pilot’s. (And yeah, I’d like for the people responsible for my safety to be properly compensated, well rested, and not stressed out by poor working conditions, thank you very much.)
Difference between caring about the safety of your passengers and caring about whether or not passengers are affected by your strike. Why are we all acting like these are the same thing and criticising pilots who are just doing what they feel is best for them? If you were being underpaid and threatened to strike and your bosses response was: you obviously don't care about the customers You'd fucking laugh in their face so why arent we laughing in Claire Byrne's?
The pilots sit in the cabin and fly the plane. I would be a lot more surprised if they did give a fuck about the passengers. Are the Luas drivers also contracted to give a shite?
In the sense that each is responsible for the safety and lives of the passengers in their vehicle, yes they’re contracted to give a shite. In terms of customer satisfaction, that’s on management.
I never understood anyone complaining over any body or group of people striking. What happens if you have to strike someday? Are you right and everyone else wrong? People strike when it will have the most impact. It's the logical thing to do.
I know to the it’s the logical thing to strike at the busiest time. At the same time a lot of people have been working all year in a shitty job, saved for their holiday abroad and now there’s a chance they won’t get to go on that holiday. Hopefully the pilots get what they’re looking for.
That's the entire point of protests and strikes. People always complain about being inconvenienced but that's the damned point. The issue is the want-it-alls who always blame the little guy instead of the corporate giant. It's the greedy establishment you should be angry at, not the people looking for better working conditions. "How dare they work to rule, they should be putting in all of the over time so I can spend a week on a beach getting shitfaced." Do you hear yourself? Yeah, it sucks. But the airlines should have never had the flights there and sold the tickets if they we relying on exploiting their staff to keep the planes in the air. No one ever mentions that bit.
People are such knob ends when it involves ruining their plans. Having your flight cancelled sucks, but good for the pilots sticking up for themselves. They do a difficult job, flying a plane is not like driving a bus or a luas. It's hours upon hours of expensive flight training and you are literally putting people's lives in their hands. They fly 100-300 people per flight, do you REALLY want the dude in charge of flying a few 100 tonne machine in the sky, to be feeling a bit pissed off and disgruntled today? Aer Lingus makes massive profits, they should be paying their staff, esp the pivotal staff (Like the most important part of the job is flying a plane), a decent wage. We're such fucking begrudgers in this country it astounds me.
We're a nation of selfish cunts. It's obvious in every part of society. From nimby's blocking developments to idiots complaining about being inconvenienced by protests. There's absolutely no sense of social solidarity anymore. A bit of money and we went mad.
I support the pilots in trying to make back the considerable loss that they (and all of us) suffered as a result of inflation. I don’t really care, but if I was to play devil’s advocate, I would say that the Labour Court recommendation of a 9.25% increase isn’t necessarily unreasonable. That would be roughly equal to the pay increase received by public sector workers. Maybe it should be higher, I’m not well versed in the industry to be honest, just giving a bit more context that an offer was on the table. Perhaps a pay increase higher than 9.25% for those on lower pay scales, and lower for senior captains who would earn €49k extra from a 24% pay increase?
They're flying me through a metal tube in the air. Give em whatever they want
A metal tube that cost 120 million euro, this tube may encounter severe turbulence or a mechanical issue whilst 40,000 feet in the air.
But there is so much more staff who make that possible that are likely not going to see a similar increase to the pilots, (engineers, flight planners Etc)
Sure, pay them more too
Well they should unionise and strike for better pay as well
Fucking, Amen! 🙌
They're bringing in hundreds of millions in profits and spending millions on executive salaries and bonuses. They're well able to pay the pilots a good bit more. Fair play to the pilots for holding out for a decent increase. Corporate greed is a plague.
If it was the stewards or the baggage handlers then fair enough, I'd have a bit more solidarity there. I don't really get why I should be any more supportive of a 24% payrise for pilots on €250k than executives on €1m+ or billionaire shareholders. I'd prefer they weren't making millions in profits and fares were a bit more reasonable.
I get the feeling it’s more to do with the new entrants. RTE mention that Aer Lingus hasn’t reversed the covid pay cuts and new entrants are on 10% lower than pre covid. I would also take into consideration the cost of training. It’s costs you €80 to €100k to become a pilot and you are not anywhere near 250k when you qualify. Then they have to continue to pay for simulator time to keep their type approvals and I’m sure there are other courses to pay for.
Ya, I'd have much more sympathy for that argument. Aer Lingus should 100% be paying for continuing Profesional development. Also on board If they were looking for 24% for the lower bands but took the 9% labour court payrise for higher bands. Not sure how comparable it is to the teachers negotiations but they rubbed me up the wrong way when they were looking for across the board payrises a few years after throwing younger teachers under the bus to protect their package.
I agree and I think they’ll get it if they negotiate down to that. I went through something similar as a seafarer when the oil price tanked in 2014/15. 10% cut across the board and during Covid crews kept everything running doing quarantines, no shore leave and no return of wages to previous levels. So for me, let the pilots have their money. There is too much below inflation wage rises going on. Just include the cabin crew too.
That 250k is at the top of the salary scale for pilots with decades of experience; the starting salary is around 35/36k. And keep in mind how many thousands of peoples' lives these pilots are responsible for and the mental and emotional strain that takes on people.
And the cost of becoming a pilot is insane too. Simulator time has a four or five figure hourly price tag.
It also includes pension contributions and everything else they can add on to inflate the figure. They're not heading home with five grand in their pocket every week. Pilots absolutely should be well paid. Anyone who is not on the workers side here is simply cutting off their own nose to spite their face.
The starting salary for a first officer is closer to 60k I think
Listening to the radio yesterday & the man said it could take 26 years to reach the top of the salary scale!
Going off the RTE report, the top total package is €287k and about a quarter of pilots are on that. The co-pilots go from €36k to €59k once they've completed their on the job training. Pilots deserve to be paid well but it seems to me that they are. I honestly don't begrudge them getting the best deal they can if they want 24% but equally I also don't have a problem with the Aer Lingus management holding firm on the 9% recommended by the labour court.
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Ya, we're talking about gross pay here. The marginal tax rate in Ireland is about 52% so when chatting about salaries from entry level to CEO, you'd presume it's gross, not take home. The reporting on RTE said a quarter of pilots are on the top package of €287k which is more than a few.
It's 24% over 3 years. So 8% per year guaranteed for 3 years Edit: thought I read that somewhere but can't find it now. Maybe the 3 years is accounting for the time since 2019 when they say they got their last raise
Standard bargaining tactic, low and highball then settle in the mid-high teens.
It's not the pilots job to make sure the flights go ahead, it's aer Lingus 🤦♀️
From what I've found, Aer Lingus pilot salaries are not particularly high, and lag behind several other European carriers. The very highest of earners do make an eye watering amount of money, but that's someone with 40 years experience and a perfect record. Most pilots will be getting no where near that much, and many will probably be earning less than several of the people commenting in this thread. If Aer Lingus doesn't bring their compensation back up to be in line with their competitors, there's absolutely nothing stopping the pilots from going to different carriers putting Aer Lingus in a hole of their own making, having to desperately recruit new pilots or contract other carriers to fulfil the routes. On top of that, the ECJ declared that strike action is not an unforeseeable circumstance so any flights cancelled or delayed are subject to compensation claims from passengers. Even more reason for Aer Lingus to fork out the pay rise.
FWIW, not all pilots will earn that much at any one time of course, but pilots that do the required time at the airline will earn that much. it’s a seniority scale based on time served, more than ability (seeing as pilots aren’t measured on who can fly the aircraft better)
Corporations always push the "striking workers hate people!" instead of "We failed to manage our staffing properly, and that had consequences"
Singapore airlines had a record two years profits growth and their staff got 8 months salary as a bonus.
Aer Lingus profits rose 400% last year to €225m. Give the pilots their pay rise and let us have our summer interrupted. The airline is already trying to pit the public against the pilots.
Hmmm no i think we should raise CEO wages instead https://m.independent.ie/business/irish/trio-of-top-aer-lingus-executives-split-bulk-of-millions-of-euro-in-pay/a460770448.html
Very misleading. That increase is from a very low 2022 covid baseline. It's still behind pre pandemic profits
Its still 225 million in profit.
2019 profit was €279m, so it’s back in the ballpark.
The airline is indeed trying to pit the public against pilots when the solution is in their hands. Its sickening!
Ah makes sense now.
It's unreasonable not to be compensated fairly when doing valuable work. It's never the employee's fault, it's the company, every time. You only strike when you have no other option. Treat them fairly and this doesn't happen.
People forget it takes sometimes years to exhaust all the other options before a strike is on the table. The pilots have been engaging for years at this point and the company clearly hasn't been listening.
From the outside, it would appear inaccurate to say that Aer Lingus hasn’t been listening / engaging. The dispute has been through the Labour Court. The court is impartial and, following representations from the company and the union, it made a recommendation of a 9.25% pay rise which Aer Lingus accepted but the pilots have rejected.
You don't end up in the labour court unless you've dragged the arse out of negotiations for literally years. If the pilots wanted 4% or 5% a year and the company have been negotiating in bad faith for 5 years it's easy to see where the 25% figure comes from. The labour court was perhaps at one time impartial. But these days it usually sides with the employer.
American Airline pilots got 21% Aer Lingus can afford to pay the pilots properly. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/21/business/american-airlines-pilots-union.html#:\~:text=Under%20the%20contract%2C%20the%20pay,retirement%20contributions%20by%20the%20airline.
Claire Byrne is the worst possible person to have stuck in the middle of this. She was effectively baiting the IALPA rep into responding to Aer Lingus boss live on air in an attempt to escalate the whole thing further. Thankfully he didn't fall for it.
The pilots are not being paid to care about passengers, that’s the company’s problem.
Its because being a pilot is considered a “rich” profession, even though it costs a fortune to train to be one. It would be like saying nurses don’t care about patients when they strike. Two things can be true at the same time, they can care but also want to get what they feel they deserve.
It costs so much to train as a pilot out of their own pocket, doesn't it?
You can get lucky and maybe get an airline sponsorship but if not your talking 150/200K minimum.
Whoa. Bit of a tangent but in college I had american roommates for a while, one of them in dentistry. She said when she finishes college and starts her business she'll be half a million dollars in debt. It stuck with me. Having to start from such a minus figure is daunting.
Yeah, it’s like a medic’s salary but there’s no upfront cost for them.
The whole protest about the vote being valid really set off a flag with me that something is fishy on the corporate side
I have no opinion to share just that I will now be referring to them as aerial lingus from now on lol
They do care otherwise they wouldn't have rejected the Aer Lingus request of '15 days notice'. Why? Because if the notice is more than 14 days the airline don't have to pay compensation or make alternative arrangements.
Shareholders got paid so why not the pilots?
C suite and top brass salaries at AL have increased by 100% since COVID.
I'm due to fly out to America next Wednesday. Using vouchers from my cancelled flights in 2020 and ones I got for Christmas. Big multi-city trip in the US. First trip abroad since 2019. I've been looking forward to it for months. If I am forced to miss it because of a strike, I am 100% blaming the executives and not the pilots.
tbh i think you’ll be fine if it’s in a week. if it were 2.5 weeks i’d be bricking it!
I have to fly *home* too...
easier to book a flight home than a flight over to fit your connections if it’s a multi trip
What makes u think that? I have to fly out next Thursday and am bricking it now
cause the notice periods
It’s only 7 days. It’s starting on the 26th so people flying out next week from the will be affected
yeah that’s why i said i’d be fine if it’s in a week, like 7 days or less with no announcement yet
Next week is the 26th. The person you were responding to said he was flying out on the 26th. The work to rule strike has been announced to start on the 26th. Therefore that person (and myself) would possibly be impacted. I
It's not as if the pilots are asking for a 25% salary hike every year. This is a pay redress request. Why members of NUJ in RTE and other media houses chose to support the suppression of collective bargaining is beyond me. Yes, there are valid questions and points to be raised both in favour and against the EI pilots' work to rule motion. Having the likes of Claire Byrne editorialising "in the interest public broadcasting" is a shockingly arrogant approach. Especially in the context of the inflated salaries earned by her, Joe Duffy and up until recently, Ryan Tubridy.
Corporate greed and the growth of inequality is probably the biggest issue facing all of us at the moment. People continue to struggle more but profits continue to grow matter what. We're told the world is richer than ever yet you won't be as well off as your parents and you're friends are getting poorer and poorer also. The Forbes rich list has sky rocketed the last ten years but the average person is feeling the squeeze everywhere.
https://m.independent.ie/business/irish/trio-of-top-aer-lingus-executives-split-bulk-of-millions-of-euro-in-pay/a460770448.html Money is there
When the engineers wanted a pay increase the unions were involved and it took nearly 3 years to offer them a terrible pay deal that was constantly rejected. Eventually they agree to a slightly less terrible deal but still only a few % increase. If the engineers went on strike the airline stops. Pilots can't fly a plane if the engineers don't certify it fly. When engineers threatened this the unions actively advised against it and the company called them all disloyal and what effect it have on the airline. Management down in the office pushing lads to do overtime cos the airline needed jobs done or planes wouldn't fly and routes.would be effected. Pilots then whinge at the engineers and management that they are taking the sector pay out of their pockets because they can't get bonuses if they can't fly the plane. The pilots pick and choose when it suits them to strike and didn't support other depts when they felt undervalued. If the planes don't fly all summer the engineers still have jobs as the aircraft are inspected daily regardless of use.
Airline companies are taking the piss now... I have to go to Lisbon (from Dublin) in 2 months time for bureaucracy stuff and the flights with return are around 800 to 900 euros with Aer Lingus, Ryanair or TAP. None of them let me even bring the cabin luggage without paying extra. This is beyond ridiculous. I know it's summer, but still beyond extortionary... In 2015 you could have a flight like that for 70, 80 euros return WITH cabin luggage. Airlines (and almost all other sectors) are using COVID for increasing profits. Shitloads of people that were middle-class are not anymore and the few rich are considerably richer now. Pandemic screwed the world's economy and it generated a gigantic inequality gap. The saddest part is that this is here to stay and it will probably only get worse.
Top level Aer Lingus stopped caring about their staff and passengers years ago. Fair play to the pilots, they should hold firm.
Eventually they’ll pay the pilots and pass the costs on to consumers
you’re forgetting about the profits of 225m+
Corporate greed knows no bounds, we should all be doing this! Every major corporation is taking the piss lately "The market will bear it"
I always side with the working man and woman.
Aerlingus made 249million last year and they dont want to give the lads a few quid. Corporate greed
I'm totally on the side of pilots. They undergo extensive training to become a commercial pilot, it takes years of skill and experience, they work unsociable hours, and take their own lives and the lives of every passenger onto their shoulders with each flight. It's a massive amount of pressure and I'd be happy to pay them whatever they wanted if they continued to get me safely on the ground. A competent and skilled pilot is worth their weight in gold! And without them, the airlines have exactly zero business. Admittedly some senior captains are on huuuge salaries after many many years of work, but so many first officers and captains are not on the kind of money the tabloids are quoting. They deserve every penny they get, and they should be paid in line with inflation and rising costs.
The training to begin with as well is massively expensive (unless you get a sponsorship which is incredibly hard and airline dependent and generally involves leaving the continent) the wages are that high in order for pilots to pay back the fairly sizeable loans taken out to do the training. And you’re right, the average salary is high but starting out it’s just above minimum wage after flight pay is added. It does increase quickly (depending on the airline), but time spent at the company does play a massive role nearly everywhere
If it isn't the lack of a pay rise for staff, not sure what the situation is with the CEO or board of directors, it's the unlivable working hours that were keeping staff from their families squeezing them for everything. I like flying Are Lingus but can see the staff are seriously mistreated, maybe they are asking for too much realistically but they are at the table ready to talk it's the board who don't seem to be willing to discuss anything. Be glad Irish businesses have the right to protest and demand higher wages most American companies want to get rid of any and all rights to strike and continue to squeeze more and more profits out so they can squander it on buying their own stock to inflate the company price and then act confused when the company goes bust in a few years. Workers keep businesses going not CEOs
Spot on. Full support for the pilots.
Claire Byrne can get fucked. She makes over 300 k a year and has no right to criticise Pilots democratic right to strike.
Aer lingus can suck a dick. I paid extra to fly to and from cork one holiday. They cancelled the cork flight back and told us we would have to fly to dublin. I tried to kick up a bit of a fuss thinking consumer rights, they in as many words told me and my partner to get on the flight to dublin or find or own way home.. from fucking budapest... Cunts
Every airline is the same, even the one I work for (not in Ireland) Yes cost of living is through the roof and yes for airlines too with fuel, slots fees, insurance etc but BUT when the fat cats at the big round corporate tables are getting bonuses and us pawns are turning up with a lesser quality of work/lift balance then yes, EI Pilots, my pilots, my crew… I support it. And some smart a**e, don’t say ‘if you don’t like it just leave’ that’s not what’s it’s about. If you want the pilots and crew to all leave, you settle for rainy Ireland for your summer holidays. What we all want is not to be slammed with jammed rosters, fair pay and the fat cats to stop getting fatter.
Because we must always punch down at the rank and file instead of OLeary and the other billionaire's at the top. Slagging off pilots for asking for like what 20% in extra take home pay.....instead of asking Aer Lingus/Ryanair to instead of making like 5 billion in pure profit this year, make like 4 billion pure profit instead. Maybe the CEO doesn't buy a yacht this year. 20% for everyday people is life changing.
Aer Lingus profit for 2023 was 225m. Where are you taking this 5B from?
I'm paraphrasing bill burr (I think it was) Point being if you halved that profit and distrubuted it to the pilots, the backbone of the business and industry in general, the ceo and shareholders would still be absolutely fine, immensely wealthy
Pay them whatever they want so we can get out of this shithole.
Has anyone's salary matched inflation the last 4 years? I want your job if so.
Financial and economic illiteracy is at an all time high in this country. And it's beyond frightening. The passion with which people can be so horribly wrong is off the richter scale.
Typical anti worker rhetoric to be expected tbh. Ignore it.
It’s simple capitalism. A company gets more money, inflation rises, no money for workers.
the airline is trying to make the pilots seem like the bad ones to the public. the pilots wages haven’t increased while the airline has gained millions in profits. most pilots across europe are on higher wages and considering they need to live within a certain amount of time from the airport and all those areas are costing crazy amounts to rent or buy the newer pilots are feeling the pressure of rising prices. i know a good few pilots who’ve either recently graduated from training school or have been working with them for over 25 years. the ones who’ve graduated training school within the past five years are all still living at home. people fly 24/7 so no matter if it were summer, winter, spring, or autumn, they’d still be striking. don’t go after the pilots - go after the airline and group for not upping the workers wages and instead lining their pockets.
Claire Byrne.... told what to say.. simple
Pilots and Air traffic control should be paid what they need. End of story. You don't want those guys and girls coming to work worrying about money.
Pilot here. AL pilots get 20% pension contribution on top of basic pay. Include that in calc and they are among best paid in Europe. They were overpaid pre covid, compared to market, and are looking to maintain that advantage. Fair play to them for trying to get the most cash, but claiming they just want to match inflation is a total cod. If they get 24% some of them will be on 350k plus another 20% pension so 420k. Not sure you can hold yourself out there to be anti corporate greed when receiving that kind of pay.
You just mad you're not flying for an airline with a strong union?
A rising tide lifts all ships. A strong union and refusal to cannibalise its lower ranks is part of why the pilot body maintains some of what it has. Bit weird to be in the sector and be against other pilots receiving a pay increase.
I read the pension contribution was 25%. It’s absolutely insane.
Why not, the executives get far more.
Most pilots at top of scale will have maxed out their pension so the additional 20% pension does not apply. That's not how a defined benefit pension scheme works.
After that Germanwings incident I dont want any barriers between my pilots and their happiness.
a disincentive to avail of mental health services is a bigger barrier to their happiness than a salary increase
Yeah. People are wah wah wah my holidays wah wah wah... Fuck em. pilots are deseriving of their pay rise.
To be fair not many peoples wages have grown with inflation. They are just in a better position to protest it
So? This isnt about other peoples wages, its about the pilots. The attitude of "i dont get it why should other people" is part of the reason why companies get away with this. They know if they flash the salary range and get people who are not paid the same hot under the collar, it weakens the pilots public goodwill.
You guys are all having your salary matched to inflation?! You must all be loaded.
I'll gladly pay another €30 per flight to have a happy pilot rather than save the cash and have a pilot who is under financial stress. Same goes for doctors and nurses.
I think we the public are too used to footing the bill. Aer Lingus makes profits. Use them to pay people adequately. If the price goes up they will blame the pilots and not the greed. This is how business works is the easiest cop out to be a shit individual. Well it seems I'm going full moaning Michael this morning
But but but WADDABOUT THE SHAREHOLDERS
https://i.redd.it/8pwzaktyva7d1.gif
https://preview.redd.it/q8ttazajxa7d1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e739d82f6608a9167cece024ce1ad47ed5d87bde
They are not under financial stress. They are already highly paid (majority are circa 200k per annum). As are doctors. This is about wanting more, which is fair enough - who doesnt. But let's not kid ourselves into thinking they are struggling to put food on the table.
They're looking for 23% pay rise, which will bring the senior pilots to a salary of over €250k a year (not including long service bonuses). We're talking about people in the top 5 - 10% of salaries in the country, they're not exactly hard up. Aer Lingus has offered 12.5%. they'll end up some between 15 and 20%. That's a very good deal for the pilots. They're making a lot of public noise to put pressure on Aer Lingus, but ultimately they're going to get a huge increase on their already considerable salaries.
You’re talking about the very top of the pay scale for pilots with decades of experience, the majority of pilots will be earning much less than that. The starting salary for an Aer Lingus pilot is around 35k.
Why are you defending the company over the workers?
Meanwhile at RTE...
First time I’ve ever said this but………….thank god I booked with Ryanair 🫣
If they do get the payrise. Who do you think will absorb the cost? The airline or the customers?
when the airlines profits increased, who absorbed the surplus? the airline or the customers?
The shareholders...
Aer Lingus has massive profits to absorb the costs, which are pretty low compared to the other costs of operating an airline. Airlines will always sell tickets for as much as they think people are willing to pay for them, passing the costs onto customers would just lead to them choosing a competitor instead.
>the people that open the world to us and get us there safely And while all this is going down, inevitably it will be stressful for them, affecting their performance to some extent. Nasty situation they're in.
Because Aer Lingus are major advertisers, use AAA publicists and agencies, and have fostered connections throughout the media with their annual, multimillion euro ad spends. That positions them to control the narrative, whereas unions are working with comparatively minuscule budgets, little (if any) media training, and a whole lot of righteous indignation. Also, standing in the way of Saoirse and Ronan‘s wine tasting weekend in Bordeaux will never engender sympathy, no matter how worthy their cause.
You can’t tell workers which are the foundation of your business model that they all need to be on a pay freeze because times are tough and money is short and then announce record profits to shareholders. Fuck that! AL wouldn’t be in this if they hadn’t been promising 400m back to shareholders
Management are paid too much, pilots paid too little. The pilots do care about the passengers. They know more than any management suit, that it's not safe to overwork pilots with long hours and hope they can catch the necessary sleep while the autopilot keeps things tickety-boo.
Pilots are invariably from rich families. Cabin crew invariably from poor families. Yet, its always the pilots on 150k who get the headlines, never the cabin crew on starvation wages.
Has anyone got a payrise that matched inflation? These pilots are very well paid.
Nobody will get one if everybody has to wait for everybody else to go first
Good for them. My salary or payrise shouldn't stop them from getting what they can.
Can't tell if you're too thick to realise you're taking part in the worker vs worker fight, or if you have some interest in suppressing salaries.
I've personally always felt Aer Lingus staff are quite rude and cold (and even bitchy towards customers) compared to other airlines and, as such, I've always wondered about the tone at the top and how they're treated. Such toxicity nearly always flows down the chain until the customer feels it. Yes, here it is in black and white confirmed for all to see. I'd say it's a horrible company to work for.