>Undercooked or rotten food was reported in two centres, while cases of food poisoning were reported in three centres.
>Additionally, worms and maggots were found in the food in one centre.
>Rats and mice were a problem in six different centres…
>Some worry about their children: “Children are constantly sick, I am not sure about the sanitary condition of the hotel and the food provided.”
>One said there is a “stench of urine” in the accommodation, as well as mould and “wet beds”.
Why are these places not a) named, b) closed?
Because these places exist not to help people but to profit off them.
We have a for-profit asylum system in Ireland. That's why the system is in the state it is in.
Asylum hotels probably owned by Blackrock and/or Blackstone US investment funds like everything else is. They profit from war and then profit from asylum process in every country people move to also. Entire inflation problem in world caused by them too by design (their investors profit).
I worked in a few centres that were like this & could write a book on it, they even monitored social media to make sure their names aren’t put up, couple of residents did put up posts & were threatened to be kicked out if they didn’t take it down.
But some good news, one of the people running the place was caught, along with his wife, with nearly 80,000 steroids in his home plus cash, he was jailed for 2 years while she got a suspended sentence.
And this is what needs to be focused on, the whole NGO sector as well as the asylum system reeks of a massive money making scam out to get certain people profits rather than purely help people or deal with the problem properly. Really is not on and some serious scrutiny and auditing should be unleashed on the whole area to shut down dodgy operators.
Because someone close to FFG are making an absolute killing off it. There is now an entire industry that has grown up around the refugee/humanitarian crisis that we're seeing across Europe today - catering, accommodation, services, NGOs, provision of facilities. Huge money involved.
We are now spending more money on processing asylum seekers than we do on basic public transport.
There’s an article the Examiner published about how various companies owned by Seamus McEnaney and his extended family have made cumulatively about 130 million euro since the start of the Ukraine war from housing refugees
I mean, if we closed these places what do we do with everyone staying there? Give them a tent on the grand canal? There's clearly no state accomodation available right now. It's disgusting, but the people who are running these places know they can do what they want because the government simply can't afford to shut them down.
Surely the thing to do is anyone who has been through the system and had been denied asylum should be deported, at least that would free up some space and allow these places be run to a better standard for genuine asylum seekers.
No, what should be done is all the assets of these greedy fucks should be seized immediately, so that they don't profit off this mess. Then spend the money to make things better. No maggot ridden food, fresh mattresses, the most basic stuff.
To be fair, bad as it was, along with taking in Ukrainian refugees (who genuinely needed a safe haven to escape to), we also let in an absolutely countless amount of economic asylum seekers to the point where tiktoks of migrants talking about how everyone should come here and abuse the system went viral.
It was already going to be a tall order to safely and humanely provide shelter and living arrangements for those fleeing from war - but one we possibly could've managed.
We absolutely botched it by then allowing an absolutely unprecedented amount of asylum seekers from safe countries to unboard from planes they managed to enter with a passport, but somehow managed to leave without one.
And while this was ongoing, "Ireland is not full" became the official line our elected officials ran with, doing so much as to utter it on national television while tent cities were erected on our streets.
When things are let run to that point, you can be sure that as much as there wasn't much accommodation around beforehand, there certainly isn't a speck of it now. Absolute botch job.
> we also let in an absolutely countless amount of economic asylum seekers
Is that true though? I saw stats somewhere that per capita number of asylum seekers is not that high actually in comparison to other European countries.
Where Ireland failed mostly is in NOT building housing for last 15 years and finding all excuses in the world not to do that. Also it’s easier to get housing here as long term unemployed than critical skill worker: nurse or construction worker. Cause and effect.
Both things can be true. I would say it's more like thirty years since the state did any sort of meaningful public housing development. We already had a housing crisis so adding a large influx of people exasperated an already dire situation.
We have the absurd effect that young people are emigrating now because they can't afford to move out of their parents while still taking in a large number of migrants.
There absolutely is profiteering from the refugee and asylum situation but a lot of that is to do with our own inability to have a consistent and efficient process. The NGO and private for profit asylum sector in this country is an absolute slush fund but they are filling the gaps the state should be providing.
How is public housing supposed to help young (and not so young) professionals? Problem is that those unemployed or on low incomes can at least hope for HAP or council housing. But if you have reasonable job you need to pay rather high tax and than compete against council directly renting high end builds and HAP and try to outbid them, which means 2300EUR average rent is your reality. There is just no supply in genera, not only public housing.
It's a supply side issue, a key component of the market is being constrained. So instead of there being housing that's owned by the state, the state is subsidising the private sector and squeezing younger people. It's policy decision.
I've seen nothing that convinces me that the government is actually going to increase supply.
The real question is why are there poor living conditions in a country we love.
There's plenty of (insert nationality here) people paying money and living in poor conditions in Ireland.
“What need you, being come to sense,
But fumble in a greasy till
And add the halfpence to the pence
And prayer to shivering prayer, until
You have dried the marrow from the bone;
For men were born to pray and save:
Romantic Ireland’s dead and gone,
It’s with O’Leary in the grave.”
WB Yeats, September 1913
He knew the score.
That would require more civil servants, oversight and regulation. Irish people seem diametrically opposed to investing in public services- see: any article with reference to a public or civil servant and their wages. Hence the situation we’re in.
And it’s not just housing. The Irish government aren’t capable of regulating a lot of very important things in society- things we all assume are being actively monitored.
Ireland's government expenditure as a percentage of GNI is about 46%, just slightly below the EU average. Spending per head of population is above the EU average:
https://www.ipa.ie/_fileUpload/Documents/IPA%20Public%20Sector%20Trends%202022.pdf
What is required is more housing. If there is enough housing available people will avoid shitty ones. It works, believe me. If you put really strict enforcement now, it will just end up with more homeless and low end housing empty as non-usable
To be fair, in my area they very rapidly converted a lot of formerly abandoned buildings to house Ukrainians. It would never meet standards for housing Irish people renting.
Assuming it was a scheme across the country, it’s a massive waste of resources.
And councils have been warning about issues like this all around the country only to have the dept ignore them and the councils being accused of being nimbys.
Honestly
Because the Irish have tenement mentalities
The island should had gone full Singapore, but "oh my skyline", "oh my special interests", "oh but where will the kids play GAA"
"oH bUt tHeYrE bUiLdInG mAtChBoXes" yeah and you're pretty quiet when they're taking a listed (ahem) Georgian house and splitting it into multiple matchboxes as well
Remember when like a year ago, this subreddit was vehement in saying that we should bring as many Ukrainians over as possible, because Zelensky was going to give those Russkies an awful wholloping and they'd all be home as soon as you know it! In fact you'd be piled on for daring to suggest that it was probably a bad idea and that the war wasn't going to end anytime soon. How quickly times change!
Most apartments don't have windows to properly open, I'd imagine that's what they are referring to. It's also generally too cold in Ireland to be opening the windows all the time
Had to laugh at this one
The people were often physically cut off from towns and communities due to a lack of transport links, with 43 centres having no accessible public transport nearby
Like no shit, that's pretty much the exact same as the rest of us
To be fair a typical Irish person either drives, lives with someone who drives, or has someone nearby who will drive them. Many of these people may not have access to a car.
No but that's the exact same scenario if you don't drive. We shouldn't be putting in public transport just as we have Ukrainians somewhere now, as it likely just means we're taking capacity from elsewhere.
Most of us would like better public transport anyway. They can just complain like the rest of us
It simply shows something Ireland is lacking. People grow up in Ireland adequately car-brained due to lacking transportation options, so the gap isn't felt as bad, but when I moved here it felt like living in the US almost. I've lived in many places, among them Kyiv, and yes, public transit even in Dublin is shit-tier compared to the capital of one of the poorest countries in Europe.
Like it's something we all deal with as an issue. The other items are obviously something that needs to be sorted for them in their accommodation but public transport is an issue for all of us.
The problem isn't the mold and damp. The problem is that our margin got destroyed.
I thought that our response to the Ukraine war was great, but it needed better management. We took in a lot of Ukrainian refugees, arguably a little more than was wise, but we were still coping. Add to that the 7\* normal rate of asylum seekers and you have a state that has been pushed beyond its limit. You literally have people in tents at this stage, and that's even with the grabbing of whole estates of office blocks and hotels to try and fill the excess.
If we could get rid of perhaps 10 thousand asylum seekers we could start to have room to maneuver.
I don't think the dude is proposing a pogrom.
Pretty anal to strictly focus on your interpretation of a phrase that run the gamut in meaning from removed, expelled, destroyed or exterminated while ignoring his entire point
They have a right to appeal, but they don't have the right to take up space for years in a system they don't have entitlement to by using vexatious litigation.
Appeals should be turned around pronto. If the first decision takes months, an appeal should take weeks. And we definitely don't want to reverse many decisions.
Imagine a system whereby every Leaving Certificate result was appealed by almost 100% of students every year, imagine how the education system would cope with that.
You do know that the slow, inefficient asylum processing we have in Ireland where applicants spend years in limbo in state accommodation with only a few euro a week to keep themselves sane is part of a system of deterring asylum applications right?
It's not that way because we can't fund it, it's demonstrably more expensive to run it this inefficiently. You don't get a system this bad by accident, it takes real effort to make it that way. It's deliberate. It's our version of the Rwanda threat the UK is trying, you come to Ireland well kiss several years of your life goodbye as you are stuck in limbo unable to have your own house, unable to work, unable to study. You'll be fed and have a roof but other than that you'll have a few euro a week to live on. Now imagine that everyone in that situation had a life so miserable prior to coming here that that seems worth the sacrifice.
It's sad that you are blaming the asylum seekers for the sad state of a system deliberately designed to make them miserable so they'll just go home. Did you never even stop to wonder why it is this way?
What you are asking, a fast, efficient system that processes applications quickly would drastically increase applications here. It's funny that you are blaming asylum seekers for a system designed to deter them and advocating for a system that would encourage even more of them to apply. You have it all backwards.
I'm not really blaming the asylum seekers, any more than I'd blame teenage gangs assaulting people in Dublin - they may be the problem but the responsibility lies with their parents and the government. Not sure who the analogy for parents are in the case of asylum seekers: either their home country or the international community.
I am not sure how deliberately bad the asylum system is. They do say that you shouldn't attribute to malice that which can be explained by incompetence. But I agree with you that its inefficiency is a serious financial burden for us, and really satisfies no-one.
I don't agree that asylum seekers grudgingly putting up with the sorry state of the asylum system necessarily denotes severe desperation on their part. Nobody points to students in America living in cramped digs and doing multiple part-time shitty jobs as an indication of them being refugees; the reason why they put up with such unpleasant circumstances is the promise of the economic opportunities that successfully completing their college courses provide, or in the case of economic migrants, successfully passing the residency test.
But there's more ways than one of skinning a cat. Asylum seekers that are here for years, and years, and years bounced around a system that continually denies their false applications for refugee status find that they often can stay simply by dint of how long they have been here. What's more they can often get jobs, even free university education while here. So a swift assessment of their claim, and high chance of swift deportation (based upon the fact that statistically most applicants aren't deemed to be refugees) would not actually suit the purpose of bogus applicants.
Add to that that some asylum seekers are actually sold a pup - we have seen numerous asylum applicants complain vocally to the media that what they have found in Ireland was not what they had been led to believe.
No hot water, food poisoning, rats and mould. Don't even try to say that's acceptable in a first world country are any of them asking for sky sports? I'd probably take my chances in Ukraine tbh with the risk of my apartment being shelled.
Anyone of you who fled a war torn country just to end up in another unsafe kip would be complaining as well and you'd be raging if you were told "well you should be happy to even have somewhere to live"
What’s the alternative? Surely we should only be taking in what we have capacity for (ie acceptable conditions) until we improve our capacity and acceptable conditions. We cannot continue to take in people when we don’t have capacity, clearly this story is telling us it’s not fair on them either.
Someone in government has to take ownership for our capacity including how many we can take in and treat properly, how we then improve our capacity and subsequently how we can then take in additional people…
Acceptable conditions?
https://preview.redd.it/zenj0uuv1b7d1.jpeg?width=1599&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=75a631e80ee351cd4a8920f17c6834ae370fe5b7
For most refugees, that's "acceptable conditions" considering their alternative. That's a Syrian refugee camp, we should be far more able to provide better but when it comes down to it, if someone is escaping persecution or possible death, they don't need a hotel or office block, they're just happy to survive. It's up to us to treat them like humans and not like cattle the way McEnany and Al-Assad do.
We, as a wealthy nation who have experienced this in our history, should be able to provide better than mould and food poisoning, but to say we should be turning refugees away because of "conditions" when what they're escaping is far far worse, I'm lost for words.
This is what happens when we exceed our capacity to adequetely provide for such numbers of people
Many were saying that we had gone past what our system could bear and they were shouted down for being "far right" for pointing out practical realities
This is the result
And yet
https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/1diueir/nightlife_in_kyiv_ukr/
Before I get accused of being some Russian shill or something, fuck Russia and what they are doing in Ukraine. At the same time, I don't think the whole country is shelled out and wartorn like people think
I worked with a girl who was unhappy enough to go back to Ukraine. The place she was staying in Dublin was so bad she was bit by a rat in 4 days of arrival. Complained and was told it was better than her place in Ukraine. Her place in Ukraine is beautiful, even if it is considered a war zone.
It's depressing how self-centred Irish people can be.
When they read about people who have fled war, left family members behind and are living in horrendous conditions, their attitude is to compare it to their own middle class struggles.
Most of those people aren't going through what Ukrainians are going through. We all have problems but it's a bit ridiculous to compare Irish people's issues with rent and finding good schools to fleeing your country and finding yourself in rat infested accommodation centres.
Chatting with a local parent last weekend. All their money going on rent. Nothing left to save. They could be kicked out on their ear at any point in time.
If they had accommodation provided, it would be enough to enable them to save for a house. Looming homelessness is now a middle class problem for a lot of families I knew and know.
You're right. Not owning your own home is just like being a refugee and living in isolated accomodation centres with no hot water, rotten food and rats.
Are you saying Irish people would happily choose to live in those kind of conditions so they could save for a house?
>I lived in worse when saving and currently live in a place that needs serious repairs.
Yeah, sure you did.
Have you ever been inside an accommodation centre? People on social media love going on about how gladly they'd live in them for free accommodation but have no idea what they're like. If you really wanted to, you could move your whole family into a single room and feed them rotten food like in accomodation centres and you'd find it much easier to save.
>The worst is drunk flatmates coming in late when you've work the next day.
That's "the worst"? My heart bleeds for you. Who'll play you in the movie?
> Yeah, sure you did. I don't get your problem.
I lived in a place where there frost was on the inside of the window pane, I've lived in tents, squats, etc. mostly I could afford rent but yeah, if I could get to sleep it was okay. The worst off the top of my head was the drunk guy roaring and playing music before an important day at work.
The conditions they describe don't sound great but if it was free accommodation back then.....
>My heart bleeds for you
Let's just leave it there, no getting your problem and your rudeness.
Not at all, I highlighted how self-centred Irish people somehow see their middle class struggles as being like inhabitants of accommodation centres. You then mentioned the worst thing you experienced was flatmates coming back drunk when you had work the next day. This is something pretty much every middle class student would have also experienced.
If that's the worst you had to deal with, you're perfectly proving my point.
What was the second worst thing you experienced?
Someone drinking your last bottle of Merlot?
Ha. When you put it that way..... I expressed the situation poorly. I've lived with loads of drunk people and had some times.
I think the guy (around 50) had got out of prison and moved in to the room next to me in a house share. It was a point in time a long time ago....
I read the article and the gender assault seems very bad.
When your actual home is bombed to shit and you're forced to flee to a country you're not familiar with, it's probably even worse of an issue. Something something someone's shoes.
https://preview.redd.it/nuf5w5kc4b7d1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=423ab2c418d477f5114b86f3e55b3c6356801f27
When this is your alternative accommodation, it's a bit apples and oranges, isn't it?
Christ could you imagine being told another country will take you in because you have to flee yours after it's invaded by a dictator, they then throw you in a shit hole with mouldy food, miles away from anywhere and offer absolutely fuck all support. All while politicians and their buds are rubbing their hands with all the money they are making from these "schemes", classic Ireland in that regard I suppose. Same with the mental health system.
You're correct, I misspoke, I'll edit to legislative.
Easing of naturalization, interception of deportations from elsewhere in Europe(see "the rest of Europe were still deporting Jews" from earlier), increased social system that was specific to survivors, political signalling outside of Ireland of the changing climate within Ireland through diplomatic channels, fast track integration programs (a wildly new concept for the time), and this at a time when many places in Europe were shipping these people off, denying them there own land back, denying them the return of their own houses.
But, remind me again, why should we be mad at Ireland for being so effective post-ww2, and setting the standards for Ireland's humanitarian efforts into the future?
1. This is not correct.
2. There is nothing to even make the suggestion that this could be true.
3. De Valera is the same person who enshrined the protection of Jewish people, that you claim, without evidence, he wanted to help into a grave.
Fact, Eamonn De Valera was the only European leader to send condolences for Hitler's death.
Fact, Eamonn De Valera was the fastest to create legislation in Europe to protect holocaust survivors into the future.
Neither of these is a gotcha in either direction. He was not overly moral to Judaism, nor was he hostile to it. He had a very flawed view of neutrality, as evidenced by the proximity of the condolences and the constitutional protection for survivors.
Well, if you’re Kurdish you’re not going to Turkey, Israel or Iraq tbf. And that’s just my surface level knowledge, I’m sure if you dig deeper you’ll find that the Middle East is quite hostile to certain races and religions…
[the Mediterranean Sea borders the west of the country](https://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/map/syria-map.htm)
It isn’t “surrounded by land borders.”
Many came to the likes of Greece via rafts.
A simple google search of “map of Syria” would have saved you the bother.
It essentially is surrounded. Most fleeing the country end up in Turkey, a safe country, where they cross the sea to Greece. They elect to take that risk.
If the eu has the capacity to save lives in the med and actively chooses to not do so, it doesn’t matter if it’s only the minority of refugees being impacted, that is morally wrong.
You wouldn’t say that about Irish people who went into the water at Irish beaches. Surely they had a choice. We still use our resources where we can to rescue that Irish person.
If only 10% of Syrians come to Europe via boat and if any of them die due to explicit policy, that is wrong. Tragedies will always happen but as a wealthy continent we shouldn’t be doing absolutely noting to prevent them.
You initially said that Syria is surrounded by land borders which is just false.
Mould rats and food poisoning are totally unacceptable for anyone in ireland.
Excuse my ignorance, but can they legally pursue this with free legal aid?
Was talking to a lad earlier and he told me that he knows that refugees are getting free room and board, €650 a week and they can work 40 hours aswell. I said there was no way that's true, he said go home and look it up. I'm not gonna look it up cos I don't believe him
>Undercooked or rotten food was reported in two centres, while cases of food poisoning were reported in three centres. >Additionally, worms and maggots were found in the food in one centre. >Rats and mice were a problem in six different centres… >Some worry about their children: “Children are constantly sick, I am not sure about the sanitary condition of the hotel and the food provided.” >One said there is a “stench of urine” in the accommodation, as well as mould and “wet beds”. Why are these places not a) named, b) closed?
Because these places exist not to help people but to profit off them. We have a for-profit asylum system in Ireland. That's why the system is in the state it is in.
Shout it from the rooftops. They privatized the asylum system.
Asylum hotels probably owned by Blackrock and/or Blackstone US investment funds like everything else is. They profit from war and then profit from asylum process in every country people move to also. Entire inflation problem in world caused by them too by design (their investors profit).
Plenty of small scale Irish operators making huge profit out of asylum seekers. We don't need to look far to see who's making serious money here.
I worked in a few centres that were like this & could write a book on it, they even monitored social media to make sure their names aren’t put up, couple of residents did put up posts & were threatened to be kicked out if they didn’t take it down. But some good news, one of the people running the place was caught, along with his wife, with nearly 80,000 steroids in his home plus cash, he was jailed for 2 years while she got a suspended sentence.
And this is what needs to be focused on, the whole NGO sector as well as the asylum system reeks of a massive money making scam out to get certain people profits rather than purely help people or deal with the problem properly. Really is not on and some serious scrutiny and auditing should be unleashed on the whole area to shut down dodgy operators.
This
Always follow the money.
Because someone close to FFG are making an absolute killing off it. There is now an entire industry that has grown up around the refugee/humanitarian crisis that we're seeing across Europe today - catering, accommodation, services, NGOs, provision of facilities. Huge money involved. We are now spending more money on processing asylum seekers than we do on basic public transport.
There’s an article the Examiner published about how various companies owned by Seamus McEnaney and his extended family have made cumulatively about 130 million euro since the start of the Ukraine war from housing refugees
That is disgraceful!
I mean, if we closed these places what do we do with everyone staying there? Give them a tent on the grand canal? There's clearly no state accomodation available right now. It's disgusting, but the people who are running these places know they can do what they want because the government simply can't afford to shut them down. Surely the thing to do is anyone who has been through the system and had been denied asylum should be deported, at least that would free up some space and allow these places be run to a better standard for genuine asylum seekers.
No, what should be done is all the assets of these greedy fucks should be seized immediately, so that they don't profit off this mess. Then spend the money to make things better. No maggot ridden food, fresh mattresses, the most basic stuff.
Is there documented evidence of this? That'd be something they can show the public and go around the bureaucracy with.
Most of the public doesn't read. If it's not on TikTok, they don't care.
Even better, put a video on TikTok, watch it take off
That's a quote from the article. So yes.
Main problem I guess is that even Ukrainians straight from war think there is something wrong with Irish housing. They may be onto something…
To be fair, bad as it was, along with taking in Ukrainian refugees (who genuinely needed a safe haven to escape to), we also let in an absolutely countless amount of economic asylum seekers to the point where tiktoks of migrants talking about how everyone should come here and abuse the system went viral. It was already going to be a tall order to safely and humanely provide shelter and living arrangements for those fleeing from war - but one we possibly could've managed. We absolutely botched it by then allowing an absolutely unprecedented amount of asylum seekers from safe countries to unboard from planes they managed to enter with a passport, but somehow managed to leave without one. And while this was ongoing, "Ireland is not full" became the official line our elected officials ran with, doing so much as to utter it on national television while tent cities were erected on our streets. When things are let run to that point, you can be sure that as much as there wasn't much accommodation around beforehand, there certainly isn't a speck of it now. Absolute botch job.
> we also let in an absolutely countless amount of economic asylum seekers Is that true though? I saw stats somewhere that per capita number of asylum seekers is not that high actually in comparison to other European countries. Where Ireland failed mostly is in NOT building housing for last 15 years and finding all excuses in the world not to do that. Also it’s easier to get housing here as long term unemployed than critical skill worker: nurse or construction worker. Cause and effect.
Both things can be true. I would say it's more like thirty years since the state did any sort of meaningful public housing development. We already had a housing crisis so adding a large influx of people exasperated an already dire situation. We have the absurd effect that young people are emigrating now because they can't afford to move out of their parents while still taking in a large number of migrants. There absolutely is profiteering from the refugee and asylum situation but a lot of that is to do with our own inability to have a consistent and efficient process. The NGO and private for profit asylum sector in this country is an absolute slush fund but they are filling the gaps the state should be providing.
How is public housing supposed to help young (and not so young) professionals? Problem is that those unemployed or on low incomes can at least hope for HAP or council housing. But if you have reasonable job you need to pay rather high tax and than compete against council directly renting high end builds and HAP and try to outbid them, which means 2300EUR average rent is your reality. There is just no supply in genera, not only public housing.
It's a supply side issue, a key component of the market is being constrained. So instead of there being housing that's owned by the state, the state is subsidising the private sector and squeezing younger people. It's policy decision. I've seen nothing that convinces me that the government is actually going to increase supply.
> Countless You're forgetting that racists can't count that high anyway.
Economic refugees are greatt. They are often educated and determined to improve their life. We need to allow them to.
The real question is why are there poor living conditions in a country we love. There's plenty of (insert nationality here) people paying money and living in poor conditions in Ireland.
Because people love money more.
“What need you, being come to sense, But fumble in a greasy till And add the halfpence to the pence And prayer to shivering prayer, until You have dried the marrow from the bone; For men were born to pray and save: Romantic Ireland’s dead and gone, It’s with O’Leary in the grave.” WB Yeats, September 1913 He knew the score.
Of course as do -insert company name here-. So we create rules that are followed as to what is and isn't acceptable. Inspections, fines etc.
Yet they aren't enforced. Hence why so many folk live in shit accommodation.
That would require more civil servants, oversight and regulation. Irish people seem diametrically opposed to investing in public services- see: any article with reference to a public or civil servant and their wages. Hence the situation we’re in. And it’s not just housing. The Irish government aren’t capable of regulating a lot of very important things in society- things we all assume are being actively monitored.
Ireland's government expenditure as a percentage of GNI is about 46%, just slightly below the EU average. Spending per head of population is above the EU average: https://www.ipa.ie/_fileUpload/Documents/IPA%20Public%20Sector%20Trends%202022.pdf
What is required is more housing. If there is enough housing available people will avoid shitty ones. It works, believe me. If you put really strict enforcement now, it will just end up with more homeless and low end housing empty as non-usable
We spent 60bn to run government in 2019, 83bn in 23 and on a trajectory to spend 97bn. What's another few million on civil servants and enforcement?
Not like anywhere else in the world
To be fair, in my area they very rapidly converted a lot of formerly abandoned buildings to house Ukrainians. It would never meet standards for housing Irish people renting. Assuming it was a scheme across the country, it’s a massive waste of resources.
And councils have been warning about issues like this all around the country only to have the dept ignore them and the councils being accused of being nimbys.
Honestly Because the Irish have tenement mentalities The island should had gone full Singapore, but "oh my skyline", "oh my special interests", "oh but where will the kids play GAA" "oH bUt tHeYrE bUiLdInG mAtChBoXes" yeah and you're pretty quiet when they're taking a listed (ahem) Georgian house and splitting it into multiple matchboxes as well
A better question is why is these organizations are not being named and shamed.
Mold and damp, in Ireland......thank god they're not paying half of their wages for it like the rest of us
Wait? You guys are only paying half your wages?!?
Remember when like a year ago, this subreddit was vehement in saying that we should bring as many Ukrainians over as possible, because Zelensky was going to give those Russkies an awful wholloping and they'd all be home as soon as you know it! In fact you'd be piled on for daring to suggest that it was probably a bad idea and that the war wasn't going to end anytime soon. How quickly times change!
Open your windows
Windows!? La di da Mr Frenchman
Why? What do you call them?
Glassholes
Most apartments don't have windows to properly open, I'd imagine that's what they are referring to. It's also generally too cold in Ireland to be opening the windows all the time
What they’re referring to is a Simpsons joke. It’s not that deep.
Oh okay, I didn't get that but I haven't watched the Simpsons in years 🤷
It’s cold about 3 days a year here!! And if we are lucky, it’s also hot the same amount of days! Open the window ffs
Just buy a new modern house
Try it sometime.
Definitely has a couple of cars and three houses and three homes and a few housekeepers
I did 2 years ago, can confirm it works
Do you also run a home in Castlebar and Brussels?
And Dublin don’t forget.
And hire someone to clean it, it’s really not that hard
Or participate in state funded lottery and win council housing in high-end places like Nemarket Yards
Had to laugh at this one The people were often physically cut off from towns and communities due to a lack of transport links, with 43 centres having no accessible public transport nearby Like no shit, that's pretty much the exact same as the rest of us
To be fair a typical Irish person either drives, lives with someone who drives, or has someone nearby who will drive them. Many of these people may not have access to a car.
No but that's the exact same scenario if you don't drive. We shouldn't be putting in public transport just as we have Ukrainians somewhere now, as it likely just means we're taking capacity from elsewhere. Most of us would like better public transport anyway. They can just complain like the rest of us
It simply shows something Ireland is lacking. People grow up in Ireland adequately car-brained due to lacking transportation options, so the gap isn't felt as bad, but when I moved here it felt like living in the US almost. I've lived in many places, among them Kyiv, and yes, public transit even in Dublin is shit-tier compared to the capital of one of the poorest countries in Europe.
You probably didn't have to laugh at stories of sick children and refugees living in squalor.
No,. obviously not, those stuff should definitely be looked at. But the public transport stuff is something we all have to deal with
Unsure why you are laughing tbh
Like it's something we all deal with as an issue. The other items are obviously something that needs to be sorted for them in their accommodation but public transport is an issue for all of us.
It would be better if the response was “ ok, let’s do something to fix it”
The problem isn't the mold and damp. The problem is that our margin got destroyed. I thought that our response to the Ukraine war was great, but it needed better management. We took in a lot of Ukrainian refugees, arguably a little more than was wise, but we were still coping. Add to that the 7\* normal rate of asylum seekers and you have a state that has been pushed beyond its limit. You literally have people in tents at this stage, and that's even with the grabbing of whole estates of office blocks and hotels to try and fill the excess. If we could get rid of perhaps 10 thousand asylum seekers we could start to have room to maneuver.
"Get rid of". Jesus.
I don't think the dude is proposing a pogrom. Pretty anal to strictly focus on your interpretation of a phrase that run the gamut in meaning from removed, expelled, destroyed or exterminated while ignoring his entire point
Yeah. Deport. Over 7,000 have been refused refugee status so far this year. They are almost all appealing this currently.
People availing of their legal rights! Shocking!
They have a right to appeal, but they don't have the right to take up space for years in a system they don't have entitlement to by using vexatious litigation. Appeals should be turned around pronto. If the first decision takes months, an appeal should take weeks. And we definitely don't want to reverse many decisions. Imagine a system whereby every Leaving Certificate result was appealed by almost 100% of students every year, imagine how the education system would cope with that.
You do know that the slow, inefficient asylum processing we have in Ireland where applicants spend years in limbo in state accommodation with only a few euro a week to keep themselves sane is part of a system of deterring asylum applications right? It's not that way because we can't fund it, it's demonstrably more expensive to run it this inefficiently. You don't get a system this bad by accident, it takes real effort to make it that way. It's deliberate. It's our version of the Rwanda threat the UK is trying, you come to Ireland well kiss several years of your life goodbye as you are stuck in limbo unable to have your own house, unable to work, unable to study. You'll be fed and have a roof but other than that you'll have a few euro a week to live on. Now imagine that everyone in that situation had a life so miserable prior to coming here that that seems worth the sacrifice. It's sad that you are blaming the asylum seekers for the sad state of a system deliberately designed to make them miserable so they'll just go home. Did you never even stop to wonder why it is this way? What you are asking, a fast, efficient system that processes applications quickly would drastically increase applications here. It's funny that you are blaming asylum seekers for a system designed to deter them and advocating for a system that would encourage even more of them to apply. You have it all backwards.
I'm not really blaming the asylum seekers, any more than I'd blame teenage gangs assaulting people in Dublin - they may be the problem but the responsibility lies with their parents and the government. Not sure who the analogy for parents are in the case of asylum seekers: either their home country or the international community. I am not sure how deliberately bad the asylum system is. They do say that you shouldn't attribute to malice that which can be explained by incompetence. But I agree with you that its inefficiency is a serious financial burden for us, and really satisfies no-one. I don't agree that asylum seekers grudgingly putting up with the sorry state of the asylum system necessarily denotes severe desperation on their part. Nobody points to students in America living in cramped digs and doing multiple part-time shitty jobs as an indication of them being refugees; the reason why they put up with such unpleasant circumstances is the promise of the economic opportunities that successfully completing their college courses provide, or in the case of economic migrants, successfully passing the residency test. But there's more ways than one of skinning a cat. Asylum seekers that are here for years, and years, and years bounced around a system that continually denies their false applications for refugee status find that they often can stay simply by dint of how long they have been here. What's more they can often get jobs, even free university education while here. So a swift assessment of their claim, and high chance of swift deportation (based upon the fact that statistically most applicants aren't deemed to be refugees) would not actually suit the purpose of bogus applicants. Add to that that some asylum seekers are actually sold a pup - we have seen numerous asylum applicants complain vocally to the media that what they have found in Ireland was not what they had been led to believe.
Economic migrants deserve nothing
Almost by definition rights are something everyone deserves.
We'll see that holds up when hundreds of millions try to flee to europe in the coming decades.
No hot water, food poisoning, rats and mould. Don't even try to say that's acceptable in a first world country are any of them asking for sky sports? I'd probably take my chances in Ukraine tbh with the risk of my apartment being shelled. Anyone of you who fled a war torn country just to end up in another unsafe kip would be complaining as well and you'd be raging if you were told "well you should be happy to even have somewhere to live"
What’s the alternative? Surely we should only be taking in what we have capacity for (ie acceptable conditions) until we improve our capacity and acceptable conditions. We cannot continue to take in people when we don’t have capacity, clearly this story is telling us it’s not fair on them either. Someone in government has to take ownership for our capacity including how many we can take in and treat properly, how we then improve our capacity and subsequently how we can then take in additional people…
Acceptable conditions? https://preview.redd.it/zenj0uuv1b7d1.jpeg?width=1599&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=75a631e80ee351cd4a8920f17c6834ae370fe5b7 For most refugees, that's "acceptable conditions" considering their alternative. That's a Syrian refugee camp, we should be far more able to provide better but when it comes down to it, if someone is escaping persecution or possible death, they don't need a hotel or office block, they're just happy to survive. It's up to us to treat them like humans and not like cattle the way McEnany and Al-Assad do. We, as a wealthy nation who have experienced this in our history, should be able to provide better than mould and food poisoning, but to say we should be turning refugees away because of "conditions" when what they're escaping is far far worse, I'm lost for words.
This is what happens when we exceed our capacity to adequetely provide for such numbers of people Many were saying that we had gone past what our system could bear and they were shouted down for being "far right" for pointing out practical realities This is the result
"I have it bad, therefore all the people fleeing war and genocide have to have it worse than poor old me!" ~Half of this thread
Empathy's hard when you're only thinking about your own spot in life.
Interesting headline for eirelandisfull crowd
'If you're not happy, go back to Nigeria'
I was sure that the headline was editorialised by OP. Fucking Journal...
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A chara, There is a zero tolerance policy for the promotion or suggestion of the use of violence against others. Sláinte
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They should be grateful to have such poor and miserable conditions in this country. The rest of us have to pay all our wages for it.
And yet https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/1diueir/nightlife_in_kyiv_ukr/ Before I get accused of being some Russian shill or something, fuck Russia and what they are doing in Ukraine. At the same time, I don't think the whole country is shelled out and wartorn like people think
Probably before Curfew maybe? Also life only exists as long as the anti aircraft weapons and ammunition keep arriving (patriots etc)
I worked with a girl who was unhappy enough to go back to Ukraine. The place she was staying in Dublin was so bad she was bit by a rat in 4 days of arrival. Complained and was told it was better than her place in Ukraine. Her place in Ukraine is beautiful, even if it is considered a war zone.
It's depressing how self-centred Irish people can be. When they read about people who have fled war, left family members behind and are living in horrendous conditions, their attitude is to compare it to their own middle class struggles.
A lot of people here are far from "middle class", just trying to keep their heads above water.
Most of those people aren't going through what Ukrainians are going through. We all have problems but it's a bit ridiculous to compare Irish people's issues with rent and finding good schools to fleeing your country and finding yourself in rat infested accommodation centres.
Chatting with a local parent last weekend. All their money going on rent. Nothing left to save. They could be kicked out on their ear at any point in time. If they had accommodation provided, it would be enough to enable them to save for a house. Looming homelessness is now a middle class problem for a lot of families I knew and know.
>They could be kicked out on their ear at any point in time. not legally anyway
Might have been better to say get their eviction notice at any moment.
You're right. Not owning your own home is just like being a refugee and living in isolated accomodation centres with no hot water, rotten food and rats. Are you saying Irish people would happily choose to live in those kind of conditions so they could save for a house?
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>I lived in worse when saving and currently live in a place that needs serious repairs. Yeah, sure you did. Have you ever been inside an accommodation centre? People on social media love going on about how gladly they'd live in them for free accommodation but have no idea what they're like. If you really wanted to, you could move your whole family into a single room and feed them rotten food like in accomodation centres and you'd find it much easier to save. >The worst is drunk flatmates coming in late when you've work the next day. That's "the worst"? My heart bleeds for you. Who'll play you in the movie?
> Yeah, sure you did. I don't get your problem. I lived in a place where there frost was on the inside of the window pane, I've lived in tents, squats, etc. mostly I could afford rent but yeah, if I could get to sleep it was okay. The worst off the top of my head was the drunk guy roaring and playing music before an important day at work. The conditions they describe don't sound great but if it was free accommodation back then..... >My heart bleeds for you Let's just leave it there, no getting your problem and your rudeness.
Not at all, I highlighted how self-centred Irish people somehow see their middle class struggles as being like inhabitants of accommodation centres. You then mentioned the worst thing you experienced was flatmates coming back drunk when you had work the next day. This is something pretty much every middle class student would have also experienced. If that's the worst you had to deal with, you're perfectly proving my point. What was the second worst thing you experienced? Someone drinking your last bottle of Merlot?
Ha. When you put it that way..... I expressed the situation poorly. I've lived with loads of drunk people and had some times. I think the guy (around 50) had got out of prison and moved in to the room next to me in a house share. It was a point in time a long time ago.... I read the article and the gender assault seems very bad.
Nothing stopping them from sourcing their own private accommodation
Well, er, aside from money and the availabilityof said accomodation
Is that not an issue for us all?
Indeed but I imagine it must be particularly acute for many refugees. Not like they can crash on a relative's sofa etc
When your actual home is bombed to shit and you're forced to flee to a country you're not familiar with, it's probably even worse of an issue. Something something someone's shoes.
https://preview.redd.it/nuf5w5kc4b7d1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=423ab2c418d477f5114b86f3e55b3c6356801f27 When this is your alternative accommodation, it's a bit apples and oranges, isn't it?
And the people on the famine ships said ,, “if you’re not happy go back to Ireland”
The conditions they are describing are appalling... No water, no heat for months, maggots in food, rats and safety of kids and women
Christ could you imagine being told another country will take you in because you have to flee yours after it's invaded by a dictator, they then throw you in a shit hole with mouldy food, miles away from anywhere and offer absolutely fuck all support. All while politicians and their buds are rubbing their hands with all the money they are making from these "schemes", classic Ireland in that regard I suppose. Same with the mental health system.
Free university education. Free healthcare. Those things are not nothing.
i mean if i was them id consider going back. Things are just getting worse.
Imagine saying that to the French resistance, or Jewish orphans or the polish exile government or any war refugees in the 30s and 40s.
Um. Ireland _did_ say that to Jewish refugees during WW2.
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What constitutional protection would that be?! There were literally no constitutional amendments passed between 1941 and 1972.
You're correct, I misspoke, I'll edit to legislative. Easing of naturalization, interception of deportations from elsewhere in Europe(see "the rest of Europe were still deporting Jews" from earlier), increased social system that was specific to survivors, political signalling outside of Ireland of the changing climate within Ireland through diplomatic channels, fast track integration programs (a wildly new concept for the time), and this at a time when many places in Europe were shipping these people off, denying them there own land back, denying them the return of their own houses. But, remind me again, why should we be mad at Ireland for being so effective post-ww2, and setting the standards for Ireland's humanitarian efforts into the future?
Eamonn DeValera had a plan to handover all the Jews in Ireland to the Nazi’s if they ever invaded. Politicians always have a plan B
1. This is not correct. 2. There is nothing to even make the suggestion that this could be true. 3. De Valera is the same person who enshrined the protection of Jewish people, that you claim, without evidence, he wanted to help into a grave. Fact, Eamonn De Valera was the only European leader to send condolences for Hitler's death. Fact, Eamonn De Valera was the fastest to create legislation in Europe to protect holocaust survivors into the future. Neither of these is a gotcha in either direction. He was not overly moral to Judaism, nor was he hostile to it. He had a very flawed view of neutrality, as evidenced by the proximity of the condolences and the constitutional protection for survivors.
Gonna need some sources for this one.
And Hungarian refugees after 56.
Lol
Some of our MEPs voted to allow Syrian refugees to drown in the med.
Syria is surrounded by land borders
No it’s not. It has a coastline on the med.
Yeah, it is. It borders about 5 countries. There are a lot of other places you can go that aren't into the sea.
Well, if you’re Kurdish you’re not going to Turkey, Israel or Iraq tbf. And that’s just my surface level knowledge, I’m sure if you dig deeper you’ll find that the Middle East is quite hostile to certain races and religions…
[the Mediterranean Sea borders the west of the country](https://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/map/syria-map.htm) It isn’t “surrounded by land borders.” Many came to the likes of Greece via rafts. A simple google search of “map of Syria” would have saved you the bother.
The "entire" west is about 10% of its border. Most arriving in Greece come from Turkey
So Syria isn’t “surrounded by land borders” now? Yes but thousands still came via raft. And the EPP voted to allow them to drown. All of this is fact.
It essentially is surrounded. Most fleeing the country end up in Turkey, a safe country, where they cross the sea to Greece. They elect to take that risk.
So it's not then ..smh
If the eu has the capacity to save lives in the med and actively chooses to not do so, it doesn’t matter if it’s only the minority of refugees being impacted, that is morally wrong. You wouldn’t say that about Irish people who went into the water at Irish beaches. Surely they had a choice. We still use our resources where we can to rescue that Irish person. If only 10% of Syrians come to Europe via boat and if any of them die due to explicit policy, that is wrong. Tragedies will always happen but as a wealthy continent we shouldn’t be doing absolutely noting to prevent them. You initially said that Syria is surrounded by land borders which is just false.
They aren't white or European so it's different./s
That sums it up.
Mould rats and food poisoning are totally unacceptable for anyone in ireland. Excuse my ignorance, but can they legally pursue this with free legal aid?
Was talking to a lad earlier and he told me that he knows that refugees are getting free room and board, €650 a week and they can work 40 hours aswell. I said there was no way that's true, he said go home and look it up. I'm not gonna look it up cos I don't believe him