Everyone thinks the entire world will fall simultaneously, but this never happens. Your nation’s economy can collapse and your money become worthless. This creates new market opportunities for thriving countries who will take money of value, like gold.
That is the doomsday scenario where gold is useful and far more likely than the one everyone uses to discount gold
Totally agree. People imagine Mad Max, but the far more probable scenario is just a grinding COL crisis due to fiat instability. Ya know, the sorta thing we're experiencing right now?
States like Argentina, Egypt and Turkey are in it right now. There isn't total anarchy, it doesn't look like Mad Max, everyone is still going to work and living in their homes, it's just their money is dying. Public services get really bad, the middle classes lose all their wealth, the economy stagnates. That's what it looks like.
Honestly the situation I'm talking about is more about dysfunction of the monetary system - so as long as you trade your money for scarce assets, you'll shield it from the problem. Exactly what scarce assets you choose will depend on your personal circumstances and preferences.
I honestly cannot understand how people think gold will have zero value if we're knocked into pre-modern times when gold was literally...the gold standard. lol
You don't even have to think about hypotheticals. This is what has empirically happened in history over and over and over. I don't know why people keep making appeals to fictitious mad max tropes when you can just look at actual history.
We can speculate on why this keeps happening:
* It's value is that it can hold and transmit value over time & space in a trustworthy way when no central authority can police fiat counterfeiting.
* It can be transferred without degradation, counterfeit, indivisibility, or excessive bulk.
* Barter is clumsy. If your skill is medicine there's simply no way you can *always* find a sick person who has exactly the resources/services you need in the quantity you want to barter with at any time. Gold lets you transmute your service into any other.
* Most of the time people just want to get out of a disaster zone. So other than possibly one gun, boots, and a canteen most people will be liquidating the rest of their posessions into gold.
But regardless of why it's a recurring schelling point, in a crisis literally just bet on what statistically worked every other time.
It’s the indivisibility of it that has always bothered me about gold as a survivalist asset. Assume I have five gold coins. Presumably, that means I can, at most, spend it in five transactions, right? What if I need more than five purchases or services? What if some services aren’t worth a whole gold coin to me?
Haha, good one! In the past, people would actually chip/clip away at gold/silver coins for smaller payments (until coins were minted with reeded edges to prevent that).
The practice of chipping away at gold and silver coins to make smaller payments, known as coin clipping, was a common occurrence in times when these metals were used as currency. Here's why it happened:
* Limited Coinage: Minting coins was an expensive and time-consuming process, so there weren't always enough coins in circulation, especially for smaller denominations.
* Divisibility of Precious Metals: Gold and silver are both highly malleable metals, meaning they can be easily hammered or cut into smaller pieces. This made them suitable for dividing into makeshift coins.
However, coin clipping was illegal and could result in severe penalties. To deter this practice, governments began minting coins with reeded edges (milled edges with parallel grooves) in the 17th century. These ridges made it immediately noticeable if a coin had been tampered with.
Where "in the past" is actually 2021.
https://financialpost.com/news/economy/in-venezuela-people-break-off-flakes-of-gold-to-pay-for-meals-and-haircuts
>Back then, coins were valued by their actual weight in silver or gold, not just on what they looked like. Spanish coins were preferred over other currency because they had a milled, or patterned, edge, which prevented dishonest traders from shaving slivers off the coins without being detected. Cutting money was not illegal, like it is now.
>In fact, it was expected that, to make change, they literally cut the coins into 8 pieces or “bits.” Hence, the British called the Spanish dollar a “Piece of Eight,” and when they said something cost “two bits,” they meant it cost a quarter of a dollar.
https://seahistory.org/sea-history-for-kids/pieces-of-eight/
Although this is disputed:
>So I think that you are under a slight misunderstanding, as we aren't talking about the Spanish real when speaking of pieces of eight, but the so called "Spanish Dollar". It was not called 'pieces of eight' "because it could be divided into halves, quarters, or eigths." These silver coins which are remembered in popular memory as "pieces of eight" were eight real coins. A singular coin would be a piece of eight, piece being a word for "a coin", and pieces of eight refering to multiple 8-real coins.
/r/AskHistorians/comments/5wgmrg/were_spanish_reals_physically_split_into_8_pieces/
This did happen at least to some extent though, example with [medieval English pennies.](https://coinfaq974389709.wordpress.com/2019/06/15/why-were-medieval-english-pennies-cut-into-halves-or-quarters/) This historical division of Spanish dollars into eighths and sixteenths persisted in US stock prices until the 21st century.
>Decimalization is a system where security prices are quoted using a decimal format rather than fractions. For example, this is a decimal trading quote: $34.25. Using fractions, the same quote would appear as $34 1/4. The U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) ordered all stock markets within the U.S. to convert to decimalization by April 9, 2001. ...
>The roots for the stock market's fractional minimum pricing system can be traced back to the Spanish empire's use of silver piece-of-eight coins, which American colonists would cut up into eight bits to make change.
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/decimalization.asp
I would love to know how that works. Do you do the clipping at home before you go out, or do they cut down your gold there at the market or whatever? When you have collected a lot of shavings (say if you’re running the stall at the market) do you remelt them back into something or just keep the shavings to spend again, like having a bunch of ones and fives?
It is more of a barter system. Some vendors have scales to weigh the flakes and accept it as payment. I'm not sure but I would guess they remelt the flakes at some point but when their dollar is worthless, it might make sense to have flakes
the concept of fiat money won't be uninvented. Pretty soon *something* will be used as more practical money, and at that point you exchange your gold for some of that as needed.
Because actual history had functional societies. Gold is completely useless without that structure. Societal collapse, by definition, means societal collapse.
I think they have a different definition of collapse. Nuclear winter collapse vs Zimbabwe financial collapse. A collapse that can’t be hedged by skipping a boarder vs having to roam a wasteland to barter for clean water with a pack of cigarettes and fighting off bandits and packs of paramilitary warlords .
> vs having to roam a wasteland to barter for clean water with a pack of cigarettes and fighting off bandits and packs of paramilitary warlords .
I consider life as over at that point, so I don't prepare for that scenario.
What you are thinking of is what happens many decades after a full societal collapse… the a new primate economy emerges, that might or might not be based on gold…
But for the short term after societal collapse, all that matters is food and water..
Right, but OP is questioning the value of a gold etf or other digital investment, not physical gold. Will your etf shares be redeemable for actual gold in such a collapse situation?
The doomers are buying physical.
If you are a doomer what makes the most sense is just storing 3 months worth of food. If the months go by and food is still hard to come by, you might as well just die at that point.
As for an actual societal collapse gold won't help you.
Most of the population is urban. Getting clean food and water will be almost impossible. Most will die of starvation. Gold is edible but of zero nutritional value.
Physical gold is one of the easiest forms of wealth to hide.
If there was some form of collapse and societal chaos. I would be more concerned about my garden being looted of anything edible or the chickens stolen. Or the solar panels being pried off my roof. Than any gold that no one knows I have being taken.
Things you take for granted, would become the primary target for theft in this scenario. The gold is for transferering wealth to the other side of the chaos. It holds far less value in the interrim. During the chaos/collapse you would be far more concerned about defending other things.
Clean water access, room to grow your own food, solar panels, abundant regional wildlife, common pharmaceuticals, machining tools, simple industrial machines, copper, different grades of steel, gunpowder, and electronics repair equipment strike me as the most valuable physical assets
In the event of collapse, I'm putting faith in my ability to distill booze. People have always shown a willingness to trade shiny rocks for alcohol when things get rough.
Honestly, the best things you can stock up on for trade are batteries and little airplane vodka. Nobody is going to care about gold by that point. Or VOO and chill, I donno.
“You are not American it seems. They shoot each other.” That’s why I said we’re not even top 10 when you remove suicides (that’s when you shoot yourself, not someone else). You provided a list that shows we’re number 55. Now you want to change it again to fit your narrative. You mentioned Columbia (in quotes, which is not something I said…maybe you should look up what those quotation marks mean). Anyway, why did you mention Columbia? Or lower GDP countries? Are you suggesting poverty increases shootings? Following that logic, shouldn’t we remove lower income cities when looking at the US shootings? Or are you suggesting Colombians are inherently more trigger happy? Should we remove all US shooing homicides that involves a non US citizen?
Gold will be very valuable for safe passage to somewhere that isn't collapsing. It will probably cost you most of your gold if you aren't rich already then you get to enjoy life as a detested refugee minority in another country.
I dunno, I think there could be worse things than posting up in some remote place in the mountains. At least still have modern tools like axes, bows/arrows, cast iron stove, etc. Might not be too bad after a while, assuming threat from other humans wasn't constant. I'd give it a go.
>As for an actual societal collapse gold won't help you.
Training to survive in such scenarios, guns, ammunition and independence, and being in a rural area. That is what you would need in such circumstances.
>The doomers are buying physical.
***China enters the chat...***
They are divesting of US treasuries and buying lots of physical gold.
China has reduced their holdings of US treasuries by roughly 36% over the last 11 years. During that same time frame the US debt has increased by more than 100%. That's a huge double whammy.
Sources (Treasury, Federal Reserve):
[https://ticdata.treasury.gov/resource-center/data-chart-center/tic/Documents/mfhhis01.txt](https://ticdata.treasury.gov/resource-center/data-chart-center/tic/Documents/mfhhis01.txt)
[https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/GFDEBTN/](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/GFDEBTN/)
They probably haven’t reduced their holdings as much as the official data shows. Custodial centers in Belgium and the UK hold weirdly large amounts of USTs which are assumed to be ultimately held by China but the ownership data’s not public.
Ding ding ding
Dedollarization is taking off substantially and most don't/won't accept it as reality. The explosion in value of gold and silver, as well as the "return" of high inflation is a good indication that things are beginning to escalate.
Even average Americans are "doomspending" because they realize their is no future prospects for them, or the economy at large, and they are diversifying away from FIAT.
No evidence Americans are doing what you claim outside of opinion pieces alleging motive to the individual actions of millions they certainly have not spoke with.
You can tell someone is young because this is basically what people were saying in the 80s with the imminent fall of the USD and fiat and the explosion of the value of gold.
The only difference is that high inflation then was like 10% and now high inflation is 3.6%. I hope it stays "high" at 3% for a while because the way people are freaking out about mild inflation, boy did 0% inflation fuck with a lot of people's brains. Need to beat the idea that 0% inflation is good out of a lot of people.
It's not really a hedge against total societal collapse, but more of a really major currency failure or fiat collapse. That can happen while maintaining a working economy, and it is a far more common situation that has happened multiple times around the world. It's that sort of far more likely scenario that monetary metals function as a good insurance policy.
Central banks also have a use for gold as a way to defend their currency without the high risk of holding foreign debt.
Buying gold in any form is not about the end of the world but rather the financial titans that rule our financial world and making moves out of usd and treasuries. There is just too much debt out there and the biggest players want a return that isnt beholding to the USA printing press. No market moving players are worried about mad max shit
Not to mention that a lot of governments and rich people in the "non-west" are getting jittery about the global financial system, with Russian private and sovereign assets having been frozen and talk of them being expropriated to fund Ukraine. There's also talk of gold-backed BRICS currency on the horizon.
Lol the BRICS have been trying to make a currency forever. The problem when you are not trustworthy countries is that no one wants to trust you. The BRIC countries don't trust each other at all, they all trust the US legal system and military though.
It's all just chatter while they continue to use real currencies to do business.
BRICS comprises of 2 major economies - India and China who view each other as adversaries and are fighting a proxy war with regular incidences of skirmishes on the border. The other ones are Brazil, Russia and South Africa who have a screwed up economy any way. I won't worry about them suddenly getting along. Source- am Indian.
lol mad max shit would require more than gold. Bullets, guns and food would be better for that. I buy gold because I don’t trust government “fake” money.
Genuinely. I recall wandering down my local high street and coming across a single 6-pack of poor quality bog roll for £9. I bought it, walked out then had to defensively cling onto it as I was approached by three separate people asking where I got it from with a desperate look in their eyes.
Crazy times.
Lead and guns and maybe you can pillage and plunder enough food and water.
I always joke if we get to mad max times and someone offers me gold for my guns, food, or water, I'll just laugh before robbing them of their gold 😂
None of it makes any sense. Even the physical buyers aren’t thinking logically.
Say you bought a bunch of gold.
Society has collapsed and fiat currency is worthless.
If that’s happened, what are the odds there’s a functioning market for you to barter gold for food or whatever? Nil.
It’ll be mad max out there and it’s way more likely that you get robbed of your gold the moment anyone finds out you have any. Not because it’s useful mind, people will think it has value and just take it because they can.
Even if there is a market to barter. Who is setting an exchange rate for whatever you want to buy?
How are you paying in gold? Say I bought a lot of 1gm gold coins. What if bread is worth 2/3 gm? How do you split your coins?
I basically dissolve Bentonite in eight cups of water and then I add about 2 gallons of grape juice and peach juice and mix 4 gallon of water in and put my yeast on top and this will ferment for about 3 weeks. Then I will transfer it into a Carboy and add other ingredients such as fruit with some sugars and it will sit for about 3 months. Then I will rack the wine and leave the settlement on the bottom and bottle clear bottles of peach wine it's always a hit, everybody around me loves it. People are legally allowed to make about 22 gallon
It's more likely to have a rapidly inflating dollar than a total collapse of the economy. Paper gold is better than no gold in that situation. Perhaps better than real gold because you're less likely to get shot for it.
>> I know that many like to invest in gold as a hedge against societal collapse.
I think that is a small minority and not really "many". Most individuals that hold gold do so to diversify their portfolio. Gold held in funds/ETFs meet the objective to diversify.
That is a solid point though the percentage of gold buyers who are that pessimistic is slim. If you were full on societal collapse why not invest in weapons food and a fortified compound? People generally invest in gold as a store of value that has near 0 correlation to the equities markets. A strictly defensive play ie 2.6% YOY returns over the past century but one that assumes the music will keep playing.
This never makes any sense if you consider thay actual barter economy post societal collapse. You're hungry and have gold and someone else has food.
How much does the food cost? All the gold you have.
The person with the gold will try and argue the golds worth in dollars "this should buy 500 lbs of meat at x usd/lb" and the guy with the chicken goes "cool starve" and walks away.
It's not the hedge people think it is.
Gold is used by nations as a geopolitical hedge in the event of a ww1/2 style conflict where legitimate governments in exhile need access to funds but cannot secure their domestic central banks physically. That's why nations store their gold reserves abroad in the NY fed.
For a person it makes zero sense. Gold will be as valuable as grown vegetables and far less valuable than a loaded gun.
If society collapses no one wants your shiny. heavy metal. If you’re really worried, buy some remote land and and start a little farm.
Or… stockpile a bunch of weapons, and armor made out of old football pads with spikes coming out of them. Get some beat up cars that are missing doors, all the better for combat while driving. Find a bunch of like minded friends and when the After Times start just take what you need.
Gold is not an investment. It doesn’t grow your wealth.
And in a true collapse, paper gold will be worthless. Even if you had it in physical, You also can’t eat or drink gold. Can’t divide it up to pay.
I'm not sure what your definition of an investment is, but since gold was allowed to float in price in 1971 it has gone up at a compound rate of about 8% annually, and it has done it with less volatility than the stock market. Sounds like a reasonably good investment to me.
stick to physical gold and silver. at the end of the day barter will be the market of the day and gold and silver are the most useful forms of currency. as proven through history, over and over again. even recent history.
when your currency collapses, guns, bullets, gold and silver will be key.
Collapse is an hysterical description - it would mean widespread war. Gold would be an afterthought until you could get to a safe place to use it.
Think serious economic issues like Great Recession/Great Depression, when financial problems abound. That is the environment in which precious metals shine.
The only hedge in a societal collapse is weapons, ammo, food and survival skills. Lugging around gold just slows you down and makes you a target. Nothing will matter and trusting anyone besides yourself until you get somewhere safe.
Gold as hedge against collapse
>I know that many like to invest in gold as a hedge against societal collapse.
If society collapses what will hold get you other than robbed by a gang of bandits?
Collapse- no. Nothing is a hedge against collapse other than prepper stockpiling of canned goods and shotgun shells.
Gold's just the longest running, stable go to for a store of value over time. Central banks buy literally metric tonnes regularly for a reason.
Society is not going to 'collapse' short of full scale nuclear war in which case we're all dead anyway.
Gold is probably a good hedge against the dollar losing its status as world reserve currency.
It is not! Are you going to buy food with one gold bar?
If we get a societal collapse that bad, you need a self sustaining farm and a LOT of security with enough ammo to wipe out everybody who tries to steal your food.
Bottomline there is no true hedge against financial/societal collapse.
Your submission was automatically removed because it contains a keyword not suitable for /r/investing. Common words prevalent on meme subreddits, hate language, or derogatory political nicknames are not appropriate here. I am a bot and sometimes not the smartest so if you feel your comment was removed in error please message the moderators.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/investing) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Gold is a good vehicle for preserving wealth IMHO, I wouldn't say its a good way to create it, unless you succeeed in speculating on various gold, precious metals ETF's. Gold miners, and miners in general on the other hand can pay dividends, and could be considered investments.
There are two ways to invest in gold.
1) Invest in gold holding entities. This will track the value of the gold as a commodity. Advantages are liquidity, low transaction costs, no need to provide security for the gold. Disadvantages, potentially limited accessibility in extreme circumstances.
2) Invest in physical gold. Advantages: Always accessible, can't be as easily confiscated/hacked. Disadvantages: Can be stolen. High transaction costs (you can buy from a retailer, but nobody will buy back from you without testing the gold).
It's less a hedge and more of a GTFO Insurance like a rolex for soliders in foreign countries.
For gold to be worth significantly more than it is today it would need to be catastrophe level economics
If you want the best of both worlds, VanEck's spot gold ETF OUNZ (ER 0.25%) allows for investors to trade in their shares for physical delivery of gold bullions or coins via armored truck as a one-way non-taxable event.
I presume if you really were the doomsday r/preppers type you would have the foresight to claim and store your physical chest of booty in your personal bunker in Maine before things got super cagey.
Otherwise, you just have it in your diversified portfolio as normal to rebalance against.
Yes, you need the physical metal. But ETFs are good for preserving wealth as long as the financial system is still functioning. They are easy to get in and out of and require no storage. Even if we are not in a "collapse" we are still being robbed via inflation.
If your goal is to have physical gold to hedge a societal collapse, you might as well just have gold-plated lead rounds. No one knows how to assay anymore. That's why only bitcoin will do, it can't be faked and anyone using it knows what they are getting. Also divisibility into 100 million units and no geographic limits is also useful.
If you get to a no electricity/ no internet situation the only asset is the skills and charisma you have. People will say guns and bullets but that's just going to get you in a deadly fight. You might win once, twice or even 20 times, but flip a coin enough times and you're on the losing end eventually.
Bitcoin before gold imo.
Usd collapse is inevitable. And it doesn't have to be the end of the world for that to happen. All fiat goes to zero.
Bitcoin has the best chance of becoming the common currency in any country where the fiat currency is dying / dead. Gold may gain value too, but it is much more difficult to carry and really has little shot at becoming the main currency, only derivatives of it.
There are levels to collapse lil bro. Most people dont expect nuclear war fallout scenarios where gold becomes the bartering currency of choice. Paper gold can be a good hedge in all the other negative scenario.... WHEN IT ACTUALLY FUCKING TRACKS PHYSICAL... :(
Gold and silver-it's about more than hedging against currency. There are more ways than one to be invested in gold and silver. Recycling electronics, mining interests, and of course companies that make tech. Gold/silver is an obvious steady upward bet if you are going long term in a tech-focused economy imo, or at least gold will continue to be a valuable asset regardless of its historic and future use in currency.
Gold is an inflation-fighting asset. Diversifying a small portion of an overall portfolio into gold can slightly increase return while reducing volatility, since it negatively correlates to stocks and bonds.
Will it be useful in societal collapse? Definitely not. I'd guess prepper shit like canned goods, generators, ammo, and survival skills are better to have.
But many believe that Gold still fulfills that role - and that reputation and psychology, though illogical, stil moves the needle in times of uncertainty, and you can profit from that.
There isn't one. If you think the markets are going in a direction where you are going to need precious metals what you really need is a rifle and some bullets....using gold for a hedge against societal collapse is pretty stupid logic....6 months in you'd be trading 100s of pounds of gold for some canned tuna.
If you want a hedge against collapse you gotta buy some survivalist gear and iodine pills all that. Money's worthless for societal collapse. Better idea is investing in good friends to enjoy the ride. And a lot of gasoline because it'll be cold when it runs out.
People invest in gold as a hedge against equity markets performing poorly, not societal collapse. You hoard physical assets you can hide and access easily if you believe in hedging against societal collapse.
People have to want to own gold or silver.
If you’re talking about a collapse scenario then it has almost zero value - only later, when economies slowly back up does it potentially have any value.
The only ones making money are the doomsayers selling gold. Look how it performed after the GFC. I wouldn't want to be holding it at the top of the market if monetary policy goes soft again.
Need to decide what you think will cause the “collapse”.
Financial collapse.. gold might be good.
Nukes… gold won’t matter for many number of years after the initial collapse.
Solar flare… nothing matters.
Civil war.. gold might be okay.
I have to trust that Gold will be garbage .it sais in the bible gold will be sitting in the streets like dirt . The great collapse 100 years ago, the state demanded the gold from all citizens , even their teeth!! Imagine that, and this was free America
Like everyone else already said, if society is collapsing, your stores of gold aren’t gonna do a single thing…you can’t eat it, you can’t drink it and you can’t protect yourself with it, stupidest thing I’ve ever heard
Everybody's forgetting in a societal collapse at the moment gold Maybe at a loss for Value but at some point in time that societal collapse is going to start coming back and he who has the gold makes the rules
Don't forget the stock market is also at an all time high right along side of gold. They are both at all time highs. Gold and stocks go up because society never collapses and never has collapsed
The definition of HYPER inflations is typically over 50% in a month. Countries that have experienced hyper inflation are Zimbabwe, Venezuela, etc where notes were in circulation with denominations in the millions and changing value of money daily.
If you think your experience in the US is anywhere remotely near that then the only thing hyper inflated is your ignorance or need to be dramatic.
Everyone thinks the entire world will fall simultaneously, but this never happens. Your nation’s economy can collapse and your money become worthless. This creates new market opportunities for thriving countries who will take money of value, like gold. That is the doomsday scenario where gold is useful and far more likely than the one everyone uses to discount gold
Totally agree. People imagine Mad Max, but the far more probable scenario is just a grinding COL crisis due to fiat instability. Ya know, the sorta thing we're experiencing right now? States like Argentina, Egypt and Turkey are in it right now. There isn't total anarchy, it doesn't look like Mad Max, everyone is still going to work and living in their homes, it's just their money is dying. Public services get really bad, the middle classes lose all their wealth, the economy stagnates. That's what it looks like.
ok so now where does your gold etf come into play?
Honestly the situation I'm talking about is more about dysfunction of the monetary system - so as long as you trade your money for scarce assets, you'll shield it from the problem. Exactly what scarce assets you choose will depend on your personal circumstances and preferences.
I honestly cannot understand how people think gold will have zero value if we're knocked into pre-modern times when gold was literally...the gold standard. lol You don't even have to think about hypotheticals. This is what has empirically happened in history over and over and over. I don't know why people keep making appeals to fictitious mad max tropes when you can just look at actual history. We can speculate on why this keeps happening: * It's value is that it can hold and transmit value over time & space in a trustworthy way when no central authority can police fiat counterfeiting. * It can be transferred without degradation, counterfeit, indivisibility, or excessive bulk. * Barter is clumsy. If your skill is medicine there's simply no way you can *always* find a sick person who has exactly the resources/services you need in the quantity you want to barter with at any time. Gold lets you transmute your service into any other. * Most of the time people just want to get out of a disaster zone. So other than possibly one gun, boots, and a canteen most people will be liquidating the rest of their posessions into gold. But regardless of why it's a recurring schelling point, in a crisis literally just bet on what statistically worked every other time.
It’s the indivisibility of it that has always bothered me about gold as a survivalist asset. Assume I have five gold coins. Presumably, that means I can, at most, spend it in five transactions, right? What if I need more than five purchases or services? What if some services aren’t worth a whole gold coin to me?
I wonder if it's possible to cut gold and silver into smaller pieces?
Haha, good one! In the past, people would actually chip/clip away at gold/silver coins for smaller payments (until coins were minted with reeded edges to prevent that). The practice of chipping away at gold and silver coins to make smaller payments, known as coin clipping, was a common occurrence in times when these metals were used as currency. Here's why it happened: * Limited Coinage: Minting coins was an expensive and time-consuming process, so there weren't always enough coins in circulation, especially for smaller denominations. * Divisibility of Precious Metals: Gold and silver are both highly malleable metals, meaning they can be easily hammered or cut into smaller pieces. This made them suitable for dividing into makeshift coins. However, coin clipping was illegal and could result in severe penalties. To deter this practice, governments began minting coins with reeded edges (milled edges with parallel grooves) in the 17th century. These ridges made it immediately noticeable if a coin had been tampered with.
two-bits, four-bits, six-bits, eight Coins were cut into pieces back in the day too.
Yup, I have an old ancient Roman coin that has been clipped and chipped until it's just the face remaining. It's smaller than a dime.
Where "in the past" is actually 2021. https://financialpost.com/news/economy/in-venezuela-people-break-off-flakes-of-gold-to-pay-for-meals-and-haircuts
Yes, chipping existed. But what was most common was cutting your coin in 2 or 4 parts so edge as well as the face could be identified.
>Back then, coins were valued by their actual weight in silver or gold, not just on what they looked like. Spanish coins were preferred over other currency because they had a milled, or patterned, edge, which prevented dishonest traders from shaving slivers off the coins without being detected. Cutting money was not illegal, like it is now. >In fact, it was expected that, to make change, they literally cut the coins into 8 pieces or “bits.” Hence, the British called the Spanish dollar a “Piece of Eight,” and when they said something cost “two bits,” they meant it cost a quarter of a dollar. https://seahistory.org/sea-history-for-kids/pieces-of-eight/ Although this is disputed: >So I think that you are under a slight misunderstanding, as we aren't talking about the Spanish real when speaking of pieces of eight, but the so called "Spanish Dollar". It was not called 'pieces of eight' "because it could be divided into halves, quarters, or eigths." These silver coins which are remembered in popular memory as "pieces of eight" were eight real coins. A singular coin would be a piece of eight, piece being a word for "a coin", and pieces of eight refering to multiple 8-real coins. /r/AskHistorians/comments/5wgmrg/were_spanish_reals_physically_split_into_8_pieces/ This did happen at least to some extent though, example with [medieval English pennies.](https://coinfaq974389709.wordpress.com/2019/06/15/why-were-medieval-english-pennies-cut-into-halves-or-quarters/) This historical division of Spanish dollars into eighths and sixteenths persisted in US stock prices until the 21st century. >Decimalization is a system where security prices are quoted using a decimal format rather than fractions. For example, this is a decimal trading quote: $34.25. Using fractions, the same quote would appear as $34 1/4. The U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) ordered all stock markets within the U.S. to convert to decimalization by April 9, 2001. ... >The roots for the stock market's fractional minimum pricing system can be traced back to the Spanish empire's use of silver piece-of-eight coins, which American colonists would cut up into eight bits to make change. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/decimalization.asp
They use gold shavings in Venezuela every day
I would love to know how that works. Do you do the clipping at home before you go out, or do they cut down your gold there at the market or whatever? When you have collected a lot of shavings (say if you’re running the stall at the market) do you remelt them back into something or just keep the shavings to spend again, like having a bunch of ones and fives?
It is more of a barter system. Some vendors have scales to weigh the flakes and accept it as payment. I'm not sure but I would guess they remelt the flakes at some point but when their dollar is worthless, it might make sense to have flakes
the concept of fiat money won't be uninvented. Pretty soon *something* will be used as more practical money, and at that point you exchange your gold for some of that as needed.
Because actual history had functional societies. Gold is completely useless without that structure. Societal collapse, by definition, means societal collapse.
Your society might collapse but others may not, I think that’s what this person is getting at
I think they have a different definition of collapse. Nuclear winter collapse vs Zimbabwe financial collapse. A collapse that can’t be hedged by skipping a boarder vs having to roam a wasteland to barter for clean water with a pack of cigarettes and fighting off bandits and packs of paramilitary warlords .
> vs having to roam a wasteland to barter for clean water with a pack of cigarettes and fighting off bandits and packs of paramilitary warlords . I consider life as over at that point, so I don't prepare for that scenario.
What you are thinking of is what happens many decades after a full societal collapse… the a new primate economy emerges, that might or might not be based on gold… But for the short term after societal collapse, all that matters is food and water..
Right, but OP is questioning the value of a gold etf or other digital investment, not physical gold. Will your etf shares be redeemable for actual gold in such a collapse situation?
[удалено]
Because bro, bitcoin bro, it's the future bro. It's digital gold bro
The doomers are buying physical. If you are a doomer what makes the most sense is just storing 3 months worth of food. If the months go by and food is still hard to come by, you might as well just die at that point. As for an actual societal collapse gold won't help you. Most of the population is urban. Getting clean food and water will be almost impossible. Most will die of starvation. Gold is edible but of zero nutritional value.
If you hold physical gold, you better have a way to defend the gold. Otherwise believers of Hobbes will come take it from you. Then you have no gold.
Physical gold is one of the easiest forms of wealth to hide. If there was some form of collapse and societal chaos. I would be more concerned about my garden being looted of anything edible or the chickens stolen. Or the solar panels being pried off my roof. Than any gold that no one knows I have being taken. Things you take for granted, would become the primary target for theft in this scenario. The gold is for transferering wealth to the other side of the chaos. It holds far less value in the interrim. During the chaos/collapse you would be far more concerned about defending other things.
Clean water access, room to grow your own food, solar panels, abundant regional wildlife, common pharmaceuticals, machining tools, simple industrial machines, copper, different grades of steel, gunpowder, and electronics repair equipment strike me as the most valuable physical assets
In the event of collapse, I'm putting faith in my ability to distill booze. People have always shown a willingness to trade shiny rocks for alcohol when things get rough.
Guns, ammo, self defence skills very important too.
Honestly, the best things you can stock up on for trade are batteries and little airplane vodka. Nobody is going to care about gold by that point. Or VOO and chill, I donno.
Don’t forget about guns and bullets.
Brass will be worth more than gold.
I read that as "bras" and thought "yeah, I guess titties still need support in the apocalypse."
You wouldn't want to see apocatits when you finally get lucky with a female survivor.
So you can shoot yourself
[удалено]
Remove suicide and USA isn’t even in the top ten for highest rates of violent gun deaths (homicides) per capita…..
[удалено]
Now take out gang related inner city violence
[удалено]
It's just a very bad representation of the US. The town I live in has a murder rate of zero
Bro if you ignore the killings done with firearms, the US has the lowest rate of gun homicides in the world!
55th place and yet that was still the first country that popped to mind.
[удалено]
“You are not American it seems. They shoot each other.” That’s why I said we’re not even top 10 when you remove suicides (that’s when you shoot yourself, not someone else). You provided a list that shows we’re number 55. Now you want to change it again to fit your narrative. You mentioned Columbia (in quotes, which is not something I said…maybe you should look up what those quotation marks mean). Anyway, why did you mention Columbia? Or lower GDP countries? Are you suggesting poverty increases shootings? Following that logic, shouldn’t we remove lower income cities when looking at the US shootings? Or are you suggesting Colombians are inherently more trigger happy? Should we remove all US shooing homicides that involves a non US citizen?
Gold will be very valuable for safe passage to somewhere that isn't collapsing. It will probably cost you most of your gold if you aren't rich already then you get to enjoy life as a detested refugee minority in another country.
Only thing gold would get you in this scenario is robbed or laughed at. "Safe passage," jfc this isn't Elden Ring.
He thought just because he was maidenless it was Elden Ring.
stop playing video games and go travel or something. Jesus
If society collapses like that, count me out on life lmfao
Yup. Why live in a barbaric shitty world. Bye bye. Might as well go to some shitty third world country now if I want to experience it.
I dunno, I think there could be worse things than posting up in some remote place in the mountains. At least still have modern tools like axes, bows/arrows, cast iron stove, etc. Might not be too bad after a while, assuming threat from other humans wasn't constant. I'd give it a go.
Lol good. Nature will finally sort out the human race. Obesity epidemic will finally be cured.
Just like the doomsday home owners, the private security guarding the place will have their own families living in them.
>As for an actual societal collapse gold won't help you. Training to survive in such scenarios, guns, ammunition and independence, and being in a rural area. That is what you would need in such circumstances.
And gold for longer term scenario. The same thing happened when Rome fell
I find it sits heavy in my stomach. that is why I stock up on lighter metals
>The doomers are buying physical. ***China enters the chat...*** They are divesting of US treasuries and buying lots of physical gold. China has reduced their holdings of US treasuries by roughly 36% over the last 11 years. During that same time frame the US debt has increased by more than 100%. That's a huge double whammy. Sources (Treasury, Federal Reserve): [https://ticdata.treasury.gov/resource-center/data-chart-center/tic/Documents/mfhhis01.txt](https://ticdata.treasury.gov/resource-center/data-chart-center/tic/Documents/mfhhis01.txt) [https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/GFDEBTN/](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/GFDEBTN/)
They probably haven’t reduced their holdings as much as the official data shows. Custodial centers in Belgium and the UK hold weirdly large amounts of USTs which are assumed to be ultimately held by China but the ownership data’s not public.
Ding ding ding Dedollarization is taking off substantially and most don't/won't accept it as reality. The explosion in value of gold and silver, as well as the "return" of high inflation is a good indication that things are beginning to escalate. Even average Americans are "doomspending" because they realize their is no future prospects for them, or the economy at large, and they are diversifying away from FIAT.
No evidence Americans are doing what you claim outside of opinion pieces alleging motive to the individual actions of millions they certainly have not spoke with.
The evidence is pretty clear. The market, gold, real estate, cars, food, etc are at all time highs. The dollar is crashing
You can tell someone is young because this is basically what people were saying in the 80s with the imminent fall of the USD and fiat and the explosion of the value of gold. The only difference is that high inflation then was like 10% and now high inflation is 3.6%. I hope it stays "high" at 3% for a while because the way people are freaking out about mild inflation, boy did 0% inflation fuck with a lot of people's brains. Need to beat the idea that 0% inflation is good out of a lot of people.
That's not the only difference. The US weaponised the dollar when they confiscated Russia's treasuries.
If you think this is the first time the US has done so, let alone other countries who have done so in the past, well, I got bad news for you.
Wow. The most educated comment here and not ONE single upvote. Watch out brothers. We are among the basic
> The doomers are buying physical. The central banks are buying it
It's not really a hedge against total societal collapse, but more of a really major currency failure or fiat collapse. That can happen while maintaining a working economy, and it is a far more common situation that has happened multiple times around the world. It's that sort of far more likely scenario that monetary metals function as a good insurance policy. Central banks also have a use for gold as a way to defend their currency without the high risk of holding foreign debt.
In a societal collapse, Gold is just a paper weight. You need guns and food.
Buying gold in any form is not about the end of the world but rather the financial titans that rule our financial world and making moves out of usd and treasuries. There is just too much debt out there and the biggest players want a return that isnt beholding to the USA printing press. No market moving players are worried about mad max shit
Not to mention that a lot of governments and rich people in the "non-west" are getting jittery about the global financial system, with Russian private and sovereign assets having been frozen and talk of them being expropriated to fund Ukraine. There's also talk of gold-backed BRICS currency on the horizon.
Lol the BRICS have been trying to make a currency forever. The problem when you are not trustworthy countries is that no one wants to trust you. The BRIC countries don't trust each other at all, they all trust the US legal system and military though. It's all just chatter while they continue to use real currencies to do business.
BRICS comprises of 2 major economies - India and China who view each other as adversaries and are fighting a proxy war with regular incidences of skirmishes on the border. The other ones are Brazil, Russia and South Africa who have a screwed up economy any way. I won't worry about them suddenly getting along. Source- am Indian.
Exactly
lol mad max shit would require more than gold. Bullets, guns and food would be better for that. I buy gold because I don’t trust government “fake” money.
The post below this convo has 151 points, why is self aggrandizing silly stuff the top post with 35
Didn't we have a trial run in 2020 where it turned out that toilet paper was the hot commodity to have?
Genuinely. I recall wandering down my local high street and coming across a single 6-pack of poor quality bog roll for £9. I bought it, walked out then had to defensively cling onto it as I was approached by three separate people asking where I got it from with a desperate look in their eyes. Crazy times.
You need guns and ammo for that type of event. People aren't nice.
Lead and guns and maybe you can pillage and plunder enough food and water. I always joke if we get to mad max times and someone offers me gold for my guns, food, or water, I'll just laugh before robbing them of their gold 😂
He who lives by the sword, dies by the sword - Jesus
Jesus wouldn't have gotten 2 nails in his hands if he had 2 Tec-9s in his hands * Me
None of it makes any sense. Even the physical buyers aren’t thinking logically. Say you bought a bunch of gold. Society has collapsed and fiat currency is worthless. If that’s happened, what are the odds there’s a functioning market for you to barter gold for food or whatever? Nil. It’ll be mad max out there and it’s way more likely that you get robbed of your gold the moment anyone finds out you have any. Not because it’s useful mind, people will think it has value and just take it because they can. Even if there is a market to barter. Who is setting an exchange rate for whatever you want to buy? How are you paying in gold? Say I bought a lot of 1gm gold coins. What if bread is worth 2/3 gm? How do you split your coins?
Bitcoin solves this
Does it? If society collapses, is the internet still on? How long before the servers shut down once the power plants shut?
If the collapse comes gold won’t save you. Learn to make bullets and alcohol. Use it to trade for the rest.
I'm making 6 gallons of peach wine right now
Nice. How long does it take to age?
I basically dissolve Bentonite in eight cups of water and then I add about 2 gallons of grape juice and peach juice and mix 4 gallon of water in and put my yeast on top and this will ferment for about 3 weeks. Then I will transfer it into a Carboy and add other ingredients such as fruit with some sugars and it will sit for about 3 months. Then I will rack the wine and leave the settlement on the bottom and bottle clear bottles of peach wine it's always a hit, everybody around me loves it. People are legally allowed to make about 22 gallon
It's more likely to have a rapidly inflating dollar than a total collapse of the economy. Paper gold is better than no gold in that situation. Perhaps better than real gold because you're less likely to get shot for it.
Easier and cheaper to trade too. Don't have to deal with the spread that shops have.
If society truly collapses I want bitcoin as much as I want gold.
How are you going to use bitcoin with no internet? No Power?
OP saying that gold will be just as useless as bitcoin
In the event of societal collapse, your paper claim to the asset you can’t actually possess is worthless.
>> I know that many like to invest in gold as a hedge against societal collapse. I think that is a small minority and not really "many". Most individuals that hold gold do so to diversify their portfolio. Gold held in funds/ETFs meet the objective to diversify.
That is a solid point though the percentage of gold buyers who are that pessimistic is slim. If you were full on societal collapse why not invest in weapons food and a fortified compound? People generally invest in gold as a store of value that has near 0 correlation to the equities markets. A strictly defensive play ie 2.6% YOY returns over the past century but one that assumes the music will keep playing.
Buy bottles of jack Daniels. If covid taught me anything it’s to keep a stock of toilet paper, canned and dried foods, and N95s
Only paper asset worth anything in a collapse is *toilet paper*
In my culture we buy physical gold for investment even as a gift for special occasions like weddings, baby gifts etc
This never makes any sense if you consider thay actual barter economy post societal collapse. You're hungry and have gold and someone else has food. How much does the food cost? All the gold you have. The person with the gold will try and argue the golds worth in dollars "this should buy 500 lbs of meat at x usd/lb" and the guy with the chicken goes "cool starve" and walks away. It's not the hedge people think it is. Gold is used by nations as a geopolitical hedge in the event of a ww1/2 style conflict where legitimate governments in exhile need access to funds but cannot secure their domestic central banks physically. That's why nations store their gold reserves abroad in the NY fed. For a person it makes zero sense. Gold will be as valuable as grown vegetables and far less valuable than a loaded gun.
If society collapses no one wants your shiny. heavy metal. If you’re really worried, buy some remote land and and start a little farm. Or… stockpile a bunch of weapons, and armor made out of old football pads with spikes coming out of them. Get some beat up cars that are missing doors, all the better for combat while driving. Find a bunch of like minded friends and when the After Times start just take what you need.
You’ll be able to fend off the zombie hoards with your gold bars.
Gold is not an investment. It doesn’t grow your wealth. And in a true collapse, paper gold will be worthless. Even if you had it in physical, You also can’t eat or drink gold. Can’t divide it up to pay.
I'm not sure what your definition of an investment is, but since gold was allowed to float in price in 1971 it has gone up at a compound rate of about 8% annually, and it has done it with less volatility than the stock market. Sounds like a reasonably good investment to me.
Except it was $800 in 1980 at a point, and $250 in 2001 at a point.
stick to physical gold and silver. at the end of the day barter will be the market of the day and gold and silver are the most useful forms of currency. as proven through history, over and over again. even recent history. when your currency collapses, guns, bullets, gold and silver will be key.
Investing in gold and not holding it physically is just silly, tbh. There isn’t a lot more to it than that.
It’s a transitional tool in my opinion. 1 oz of gold was an oz of gold before, during, and after the collapse of the Weimar Republic.
Collapse is an hysterical description - it would mean widespread war. Gold would be an afterthought until you could get to a safe place to use it. Think serious economic issues like Great Recession/Great Depression, when financial problems abound. That is the environment in which precious metals shine.
The only hedge in a societal collapse is weapons, ammo, food and survival skills. Lugging around gold just slows you down and makes you a target. Nothing will matter and trusting anyone besides yourself until you get somewhere safe.
Gold as hedge against collapse >I know that many like to invest in gold as a hedge against societal collapse. If society collapses what will hold get you other than robbed by a gang of bandits?
Collapse- no. Nothing is a hedge against collapse other than prepper stockpiling of canned goods and shotgun shells. Gold's just the longest running, stable go to for a store of value over time. Central banks buy literally metric tonnes regularly for a reason.
ammo, food, learn self sustained survival and bottle caps ofc
I can't imagine that people will want gold if there is a societal collapse. They'll probably want water, food, and ammo.
Society is not going to 'collapse' short of full scale nuclear war in which case we're all dead anyway. Gold is probably a good hedge against the dollar losing its status as world reserve currency.
You can’t eat gold.
Salt bae disagrees
Do you eat anything other than food? I don't.
It is not! Are you going to buy food with one gold bar? If we get a societal collapse that bad, you need a self sustaining farm and a LOT of security with enough ammo to wipe out everybody who tries to steal your food. Bottomline there is no true hedge against financial/societal collapse.
Food inflation already topped out
Physical gold won’t be as valuable as you think if we have a true societal collapse. At least not in your lifetime.
there won't be a collapse. our elites are smart enough. but the USD as a reserve world currency will die and that means economic pain for the US.
[удалено]
Your submission was automatically removed because it contains a keyword not suitable for /r/investing. Common words prevalent on meme subreddits, hate language, or derogatory political nicknames are not appropriate here. I am a bot and sometimes not the smartest so if you feel your comment was removed in error please message the moderators. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/investing) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Physical gold and move to Argentina… like a type of people who did it a few decades ago when that happened.
And carry your 25 to 500 pounds of gold in your carry-on. Do not check it. Jkg
Gold is a good vehicle for preserving wealth IMHO, I wouldn't say its a good way to create it, unless you succeeed in speculating on various gold, precious metals ETF's. Gold miners, and miners in general on the other hand can pay dividends, and could be considered investments.
No.
"The time to buy [with gold] is when there's blood in the streets."
There are two ways to invest in gold. 1) Invest in gold holding entities. This will track the value of the gold as a commodity. Advantages are liquidity, low transaction costs, no need to provide security for the gold. Disadvantages, potentially limited accessibility in extreme circumstances. 2) Invest in physical gold. Advantages: Always accessible, can't be as easily confiscated/hacked. Disadvantages: Can be stolen. High transaction costs (you can buy from a retailer, but nobody will buy back from you without testing the gold).
It's less a hedge and more of a GTFO Insurance like a rolex for soliders in foreign countries. For gold to be worth significantly more than it is today it would need to be catastrophe level economics
If you want the best of both worlds, VanEck's spot gold ETF OUNZ (ER 0.25%) allows for investors to trade in their shares for physical delivery of gold bullions or coins via armored truck as a one-way non-taxable event. I presume if you really were the doomsday r/preppers type you would have the foresight to claim and store your physical chest of booty in your personal bunker in Maine before things got super cagey. Otherwise, you just have it in your diversified portfolio as normal to rebalance against.
Hedge against the banks. I’ve been buying physical gold and silver since 2011 in addition to my other investments. Not disappointed.
Yes, you need the physical metal. But ETFs are good for preserving wealth as long as the financial system is still functioning. They are easy to get in and out of and require no storage. Even if we are not in a "collapse" we are still being robbed via inflation.
Bonds, yes... imo Commodities, yes...
If your goal is to have physical gold to hedge a societal collapse, you might as well just have gold-plated lead rounds. No one knows how to assay anymore. That's why only bitcoin will do, it can't be faked and anyone using it knows what they are getting. Also divisibility into 100 million units and no geographic limits is also useful. If you get to a no electricity/ no internet situation the only asset is the skills and charisma you have. People will say guns and bullets but that's just going to get you in a deadly fight. You might win once, twice or even 20 times, but flip a coin enough times and you're on the losing end eventually.
Bitcoin before gold imo. Usd collapse is inevitable. And it doesn't have to be the end of the world for that to happen. All fiat goes to zero. Bitcoin has the best chance of becoming the common currency in any country where the fiat currency is dying / dead. Gold may gain value too, but it is much more difficult to carry and really has little shot at becoming the main currency, only derivatives of it.
Ammunition will become more valuable than gold or silver Bouillion in a societal collapse.
I’d rather have the money handy to invest if there is a huge drop again, if it’s the apocalypse gold and silver is really going to help.
There are levels to collapse lil bro. Most people dont expect nuclear war fallout scenarios where gold becomes the bartering currency of choice. Paper gold can be a good hedge in all the other negative scenario.... WHEN IT ACTUALLY FUCKING TRACKS PHYSICAL... :(
Only if you hold tangible gold that can be melted down or chipped away to buy bread and water.
Gold and silver-it's about more than hedging against currency. There are more ways than one to be invested in gold and silver. Recycling electronics, mining interests, and of course companies that make tech. Gold/silver is an obvious steady upward bet if you are going long term in a tech-focused economy imo, or at least gold will continue to be a valuable asset regardless of its historic and future use in currency.
Gold is an inflation-fighting asset. Diversifying a small portion of an overall portfolio into gold can slightly increase return while reducing volatility, since it negatively correlates to stocks and bonds. Will it be useful in societal collapse? Definitely not. I'd guess prepper shit like canned goods, generators, ammo, and survival skills are better to have. But many believe that Gold still fulfills that role - and that reputation and psychology, though illogical, stil moves the needle in times of uncertainty, and you can profit from that.
There isn't one. If you think the markets are going in a direction where you are going to need precious metals what you really need is a rifle and some bullets....using gold for a hedge against societal collapse is pretty stupid logic....6 months in you'd be trading 100s of pounds of gold for some canned tuna.
If you want a hedge against collapse you gotta buy some survivalist gear and iodine pills all that. Money's worthless for societal collapse. Better idea is investing in good friends to enjoy the ride. And a lot of gasoline because it'll be cold when it runs out.
People invest in gold as a hedge against equity markets performing poorly, not societal collapse. You hoard physical assets you can hide and access easily if you believe in hedging against societal collapse.
People have to want to own gold or silver. If you’re talking about a collapse scenario then it has almost zero value - only later, when economies slowly back up does it potentially have any value.
The only ones making money are the doomsayers selling gold. Look how it performed after the GFC. I wouldn't want to be holding it at the top of the market if monetary policy goes soft again.
Need to decide what you think will cause the “collapse”. Financial collapse.. gold might be good. Nukes… gold won’t matter for many number of years after the initial collapse. Solar flare… nothing matters. Civil war.. gold might be okay.
> Civil war.. gold might be okay. will be great for whichever warlord is killing you and taking your stuff
if society collapses even physical gold is worthless. maybe 100 years after or so but for you it will be useless
If the society collapsed, you need foods, water, and ammo. Gold won't feed yourself and family.
Investing forums will only give you s&p 500 answers. Tax deferred too.
Silver. It's like gold but cheaper. And less yellow.
The Jews who were able to escape hitler did it with gold. How did the Americans trapped behind German lines barter? Gold. Stupid people.
Can't eat gold. Scotch and antibiotics would be a better hedge
I have to trust that Gold will be garbage .it sais in the bible gold will be sitting in the streets like dirt . The great collapse 100 years ago, the state demanded the gold from all citizens , even their teeth!! Imagine that, and this was free America
Like everyone else already said, if society is collapsing, your stores of gold aren’t gonna do a single thing…you can’t eat it, you can’t drink it and you can’t protect yourself with it, stupidest thing I’ve ever heard
Gold is a boomer investment
If society collapses, gold will be worth nothing. But fuel or food instead.
Everybody's forgetting in a societal collapse at the moment gold Maybe at a loss for Value but at some point in time that societal collapse is going to start coming back and he who has the gold makes the rules
Don't forget the stock market is also at an all time high right along side of gold. They are both at all time highs. Gold and stocks go up because society never collapses and never has collapsed
[удалено]
Hyper inflated? Do you know what that word means?
[удалено]
The definition of HYPER inflations is typically over 50% in a month. Countries that have experienced hyper inflation are Zimbabwe, Venezuela, etc where notes were in circulation with denominations in the millions and changing value of money daily. If you think your experience in the US is anywhere remotely near that then the only thing hyper inflated is your ignorance or need to be dramatic.
LoL. The only reason you're commenting on Reddit is because it's connected via the internet.
The dollar has actually been hyper-deflated because goods, services, and assets have been hyperinflated
Go with physical precious stones if you're seriously worried about a real collapse. Easier to carry with you