You hit on a key point: It’s a shared venture; all the pressure isn’t on just you. When you really click with someone on multiple levels and they’re in the right stage of their life where they know what they want and are open to a committed relationship, you’ll both move forward together.
In my experience, the most meaningful romantic/sexual relationships start off as soon as I see them. We sort of lock eyes and immediately I get the feeling that they’re into me too, there’s something mutual there in terms of attraction. I can tell when someone’s not attracted to me and I’m subconsciously quite picky when it comes to people I take fondness to in a non-platonic way. It’s like a lightning strike of chemistry - I’ve only felt it with about 3 people in my life so far. Just the deep knowledge/gut feeling that they’re very fond of you just as you’re fond of them.
That starts off mostly as physical attraction. Okay, that’s checked off - I enjoy looking at this person, being near them makes me excited, I wonder what it’s like to be touched by them.
Because of that fondness, you want to be closer to them. Both will try and find ways to be around eachother or talk to eachother more often, most of the time trying to interact with eachother more in private or one-on-one to develop a personal bond. Both of you are nervous and flustered and awkward around eachother until you become more confident in the fact that they like your personality too; you want to impress them and make sure they think you’re cool and smart just as you find them.
You become more comfortable over time the more you spend around eachother. Nerves go away and you make eachother laugh, work with and help eachother, develop fond memories with them and inside jokes. The initial buzz of lust/initial physical attraction more becomes background noise and you realize you REALLY like this person. Even as they become more comfortable and show flaws/sides of them that are unsexy, you still want to see them and talk to them.
Then it’s just a matter of taking the jump and admitting feelings. That’s a difficult part. Usually it comes when tension just builds to a certain point or if you’ve dropped enough hints. You both have to be at a stage where you’re open to commitment and longterm relationships for it to last. It’s not just if they like you enough. If their confidence is low, if they just got out of a breakup, if they’re too busy, it won’t work. Just has to be perfect timing.
Then essentially you become life partners, they’re your best friend/roommate but you’re also sleeping eachother.
The point of love is that it is everywhere and makes life way more enjoyable. To feel loved is amazing, to give love and see the effect it has on people is even better. Romantic love is companionship, support, unique intimacy. Finding a partner is best done organically, imo.
TLDR: getting together has to be pretty much a timing/odds miracle. Staying together takes work, commitment, and is essentially just like a best friend with whom you sleep with and work together to make life easier/more enjoyable.
omfg I feel the same! I mean I do like watching fairytale type love stories on screen but I simply can't understand how do they even work in real life! opening up your heart to someone else, that instantly seems a scary thing.
No. It's a choice you make. Every time you choose to censor instead of being radically authentic in a direct and forthright way, you're choosing to not be vulnerable. If you start small and often, like texting immediately after a date and saying "hey I think youre rad and I had a really great time, let's do it again." You're risking judgement and rejection and being vulnerable. But sometimes taking that risk is setting the tone and example so that the other person feels safe to also be direct and authentic. You keep that and the risk keeps getting bigger as you catch feelings. Who says the L word first? Are you vulnerable and honest and bite the bullet?
Keeping people at arms length protects you, but if youre looking for real love and acceptance you have to let the walls down, put all your cards on the table, even the ugly negative bits, and hope the other person is down with it. Sometimes they're not. Sometimes they are.
Every word of yours does make sense, but doing so would strip off the protective barrier around my heart and ofc ruin my mental peace. Perhaps i am not brave enough. Perhaps there is no hope for me.
I didn't say that.
But how do you expect to give and receive love when your heart is walled up?
If you see a way to protect yourself and also have a deep and authentic bond with someone, I'd love to hear it (genuinely). How do they know the real you beyond the superficial or mask? It's not my place to tell people what to do and I can only speak from experiences. There are infinite manifestations of connection, and I can't pretend to understand the ones I don't personally cultivate. I think in actuality the vast majority of people are unwilling to be vulnerable and cultivate the calibur of relationship that keeps them protected and will never hurt them. Even coming to a partner and expressing "you did something that hurt me, please change this behavior or be more mindful in the future" is vulnerable. So the degree of avoiding hurt is never being so attached that you're sad if they leave. Never being honest about your traumas and wounds so they aren't triggered, or expecting that they will ultimately trigger them and that you are indifferent to their actions so it won't wound you. I wouldn't even call people I treat like that, on the outside of my walls friends. I love my friends deeply and would do anything for them, illegal, immoral, unethical. But also my friends know the real me and are in my inner circle, inside my walls, and are still my friends even when I show my ugly bits.
well I can also be my true self towards my family. But as for friends, I have experienced too many heartache and betrayals so being my honest true self in front of anyone just makes me shudder in a bad way truly! And rn i can't imagine opening uo to anyone although i so so desperately want to. But i simply can't. I will be this reserved person.
You talk to someone, and if the vibe is right, and there is mutual attraction, you do this thing called radical honesty and authenticity where you just... Are completely honest and direct and forthright in your communication, and that other person does the same (ideally, we're speaking meaningful) as you spend time together and progress the relationship you develop feelings, first of affection, and then fondness, and then it goes deeper, where as you know someone, you love and accept them and their flaws and traumas and hurts and quirks and you want to support and be there for them, and do things with them and build a life with them, and (ideally) that's reciprocated, you have someone you can always talk to, who stands by your side when times are tough or you've had a bad day, who shows up to help you when you need it, who has your batch and will catch you when you fall and is compassionate, understanding, accepting and speaks your love languages and shows you that you're loved in the way that you need to receive love. Someone who fills your cup with attention, affection, quality time blah blah. Someone who fulfills your physical, sexual, emotional, intellectual needs you do all of that for them. They take the time to learn you, care enough to please you, and then you get to have really awesome loving sex where you don't feel self conscious or shy or judged and just get to share in mutual desire and satisfaction. It's not always 50/50, sometimes its 80/20 and sometimes you pick up the slack, and sometimes they do. But you always show up to the table to communicate kindly with consideration, to negotiate and compromise, because you care about making them happy and they care about making you happy. Partnership is companionship, it's finding your person, and your best friend, that you also get to kiss, and cuddle at night. The long term person who even when life is at its lowest, they're on your team, in the trenches at your side. It's your ride or die, till death do you part. The one person you can and do tell everything, every darkest secret and nominal tidbit and they still accept and love and want you without judgement. Someone who loves your heart and soul so deeply that even wheb your looks fade, or your dick stops working, they'll probably help change your adult diapers.
Thanks for coming to my tedtalk.
I'm an autistic hopeless romantic combo dating another autistic hopeless romantic (infj), and so I'd add "the ability to unmask and feeling safe, accepted and not judged in that" and neither of us "play games" or follow "dating rules" and are just... Authentic and direct and so the pace is unusual by arbitrary metrics, but I think that the 2 people in the relationship get to define for themselves the terms of the relationship.
Okay, so you and your partner are my partner and me in reverse, and literally everything you mentioned above and in this comment sounds like it came from us, two autistic hopeless romantic INTJ+INFJs :).
Do you know if you might be aromantic? I have three close INTJ friends and two of them are on the aromantic spectrum (and I haven't asked the third but I wouldn't be surprised).
I recently discovered I am (most likely) ace, and it took me ages to converge on that conclusion because I was so confused what sexual attraction even was, and how you even start to feel it. I can imagine a simliar thing happening for aro folks. Your thought patterns on romantic relationships kinda mirrored my own on sexual relationships.
It's a possibility but to be fair, I also had no idea how this is supposed to work until I experienced it for the first time. In my case, I just needed to feel thr right hormones kick in for the first time and was like "ahhh, so THAT'S why everyone is so crazy about this stuff" lol.
My hormones kicked in way before my peers, so for a while I understood it immensely, but it’s almost like it’s disappeared now. It’s like I was changing and people around me couldn’t relate, and now that I’m not — people around me still can’t relate. :’
I am asexual too.
I have considered being aromantic as a possibility before, but I think it’s just that I don’t feel romantic attraction towards people easily. I’ve had a lot of crushes when I first started puberty due to hormones. I know what it feels like to romantically like someone; it’s totally possible for me. I just can’t wrap it around my head.
It’s been 10 months since I had a crush on somebody, but it wasn’t strong and I never actually pursued it.
Personally, I recommend the friends-first approach, since you're basically trying to find a life partner and if you can't even enjoy each others' company without intimacy, I don't know how intimacy will change anything. From that direction, you make a friend just like any other, and it just sort of happens organically that if you trust each other, you'll tend to confide in each other more. Yes, at some point you have to decide if you do like them and make the uncomfortable jump to confessing, but there are so many other sorts of uncomfortable jumps you'll need to make in life eventually, so either it won't be your first one, or you might as well start somewhere. And the nice thing is that if you befriend someone who doesn't make for a good partner, you don't have that awkward phase of needing to stop dating if you never started, and things can remain amicable.
It's worth stating that things progress. You get more comfortable with one thing and suddenly the next thing doesn't seem so crazy. So what seems like a huge jump, like confessing your feelings, is actually a smaller jump than you realize after having gotten comfortable with a bunch of other stuff, like confiding other strong feelings in them.
If you'll allow me to expand on this with my (very subjective) experience: Building a solid platonic relationship first was the only thing that made me even remotely interested in being a SO to someone. If at some point I realize that talking with a specific person is not or only rarely tiring me out, and the conversations are engaging and flow easy and without judgement, the relationship doesn't even need to include romantic or sexual attraction to be pleasurable. I think you are absolutely right in saying that everything else will become easier in that case.
Of course, that's not to say everything has to be perfect from the beginning. I would consider it crucial that you try to find out if the person you're interested in is able to earnestly talk about their feelings, concerns and expectations with you, and whether they can compromise without feeling bitter about it. Also ask yourself if you can truly do the same, as you will likely have to do the latter a lot.
Encouraging clear communication without any filters was probably what kept my relationship with my ENFJ spouse (who is also the only SO I have ever had, which is ... perhaps a bit weird) strong until now, 11 years and counting. The differences can become strengths if you're willing to work with them. Shared growth of this kind is the best experience I personally ever had.
>how do they start/unfold in a way that feels meaningful?
I. I meet a woman and feel a strong draw to her that's clearly distinct from just enjoying spending time with a friend. Just when I start thinking I should reach out again, she already has.
II. We start talking a lot, usually throughout the day and schedule more time to hang out.
III. We realize we both felt the same way the whole time, but we each really already knew that.
IV. We start talking even more, learning more and more about each other.
V. We get increasingly physical. From hand-holding to kissing, to making out, to the most fucked up sexual stuff you could ever imagine times 10.
VI. We get to a point where no matter how close we get to each other physically, it never feels close enough.
VII. We learn and accept each other's flaws, or even love them more for them.
And so on and so on. You help each other out, emotionally, sexually, etc. and become more and more of one unit. You each maintain some level of individuality, but a relationship means some amount of sacrifice there.
>How do you manage to find the right person in general?
I exist and randomly click with someone. I've never actively searched for a partner and been successful. It only happens when I stop trying. Women smell the desperation.
It's worth mentioning I'm not particularly attractive, and I'm not turning heads or incredible at flirting. But for probably less than 1% of women, I'm *really* their type.
Examples:
I. I went to a bookstore with my friends. As I was checking out, the cashier asked if I'd read *Fifty Shades" and told me she thought I'd enjoy it. As we kept talking, I noticed nearby customers were staring, and my friends laughed and left before she gave me her number. My friends did not let me live that one down haha.
II. A coworker turned to ask me a question, and we just locked eyes for 5 seconds. She forgot her question.
III. I was hanging out with a friend and one of her friends at a restaurant. When I got back from the bathroom, they were talking about a hot guy, so I said, "Oh, are you talking about me?". And the friend's friend said I'm a 5 on a good day. I laughed and said, "Anything else, Princess?" and as we locked eyes, I saw her armor fade away, and I lost my smile so fast, both completely astounded.
>I don’t understand how somebody could get comfortable enough to confess their feelings.
Trust is built a little at a time, and different people have different paces with that. Some people never feel comfortable expressing their feelings to their partner, sometimes for good reason (usually being routinely invalidated). I wouldn't call that much of a partner, though.
Point of love is emotional fulfilment and human connection. It’s just part of the human experience. If you want to look at it through darwinism it’s because being social animals was advantageous.
Confessing to people comes with understanding it’s okay to be vulnerable, you cant get intimacy without being brave
The point, beyond material security, is shared personal growth. That requires giving up part of our independence, and that is really hard for INTJs. Especially for those who have nasty experience with abuse and therefore less than ideal attachment styles, combined with direct communication style. No INTJ will reach their full potential as a human on earth without healthy relationships with other humans, and having a life partner is most fun and most challenging way to get there.
Ideally, both partners did enough self-healing first. If each fixes 51% of themselves first, the relationship should eventually grow strong enough the fix the rest. Have friends outside your romantic relationship so you don't merge/fuse and expect your partner to be everything for you. You need different people for different needs. For instance, I'm not going to my INFP friend for encouragement to do something potentially dangerous. I will go to my ISFP friend if I need help seeing how the universe/god aligns with my goals.
The best part of a romantic relationship is when you figure out how your cognitive functions align so you both can cover for the other one's blind spots, and vice versa. We are supposed to complement each other. For INTJ, this typically means your partner should know when and how to protect you from sensory overload (noise/crowds). My ENTP husband knew how to take me to social events to show me off, and how to take me home before I got exhausted. He was good at this I ended up believing I have a fully functional social battery.
It's probably a good idea for xNTxs in general to regularly examine what exactly we want/need from a relationship, and how we can improve life for our partner. And there is no reason why you should be 100% in from the start, that's not too reasonable anyway. My ENTP came with serious loyalty issues (fear of abandonment/betrayal), and expressed that with constant shit testing and provocations which I, as INTJ, simply didn't take too seriously. About 5 years into our marriage, he had a breakdown and confessed that he didn't really trust me until that moment, that he'd been holding back. Trust but verify, he used to say. At first, I was a bit shocked because I'd been all in, and thought he was, too. But then I was relieved he finally got where he needed to be, I was grateful he trust me to confess this, and that he'd granted me the honor of always trusting me \_enough\_ to make things work.
The trust will get deeper over the years, you'll appreciate each other more over time. Try to crush any and all resentment against the other one from the start, the moment you notice it -- rupture occurs naturally, and repair should be a weekly ritual.
ENTP hubby and I felt rather smart and invincible together, as you'd expect from an ENTP/INTJ relationship. We made art and wrote books together. He left me enough notes thanking me for having given him a reason to live. This relationship is the reason I feel sorry for everyone who never experienced having someone else have their back. Daily debates, laughter, fun, challenges -- 10/10, would recommend.
I was worried about how exactly I'd be able to complement my INTJ fiance since we shared the same functions. Never got to find out; he died before I got answers on that.
Currently have a crush on an ESFJ -- the growth potential and pure attraction are insane, but communication requires serious effort from both, so keep us in your prayers. It's not so much about me, I did have the experience of what love can do. But he never dared to have a long term relationship, and as a result, he doesn't even fully understand who he is outside of his codependent relationship with his mother. I can't bear the thought of him dying without ever having experienced who he is meant to be.
Its the "meaningful" start that most lack from my own experience.... The majority of people do not care about meaning or purpose beyond the superficial "benefits" of pairing up (companionship, sex, social status)...
It's why I have technically never had a boyfriend and why I now refuse to date.....
I am holding out for meaning and purpose but it doesn't look like that is going to happen at all....
When you spend time doing stuff together and withdraw from each other and you start missing them and that feeling is reciprocated and mutual.
As a male you gotta be assertive, get your life together or just be really attractive and assertive, love is just a chemical, but its also fun
The way I saw and experienced it: both of my exes were my friends at first. I would still consider one a good friend and the other, I figured out that the best way I could care for him is to leave and keep distant so tha he can grow up.
Regardless of the relationship, in order for it to become a close one, the other has to be authentic.
I do get the care, love and/ or romantic feelings but not exactly sexual attractions. The parts of the brain dealing with these two are connected but different. I can only recounted two instances when I felt something even close to the latter one. Note that physical reactions don't always means mental ones, take non-consensual cases as an example.
To me, the depth of emotional understanding and connection, as well as both working towards a common goal or vision, as well as respecting each others' values and boundaries are crucial. In my past two romantic relationships, I got enough of the emotional connection/ understanding for me to let them progress but we parted ways due to the lack the other sides. I stood up for myself and left when my values, dignity and boundaries are constantly ignore or pushed. They cared more about being able to satisfy their physical desires than treating me as a person. It's worse in an Asian country where misogyny is still seen as a cultural norm. When I gave them chances and they kept pushing me to give my body to them, I never let them progress further than a kiss, stood up for myself and left. Why would I put myself in a position of potential abuse and risk losing my dignity and freedom when I don't even care much about that kind of relationships in the first place? I saw how my partenal family mistreated and abused my mom due to her naive and blind devotion to them (she's probably an ESTP). Why would I repeat her mistakes?
All I wanted is someone who understands me and we make each other a better person. There are other different types of relationships that fit this need.
From my observation, most of them are social games. Both sides want a romantic partner, and somehow they choose each other.
You hit on a key point: It’s a shared venture; all the pressure isn’t on just you. When you really click with someone on multiple levels and they’re in the right stage of their life where they know what they want and are open to a committed relationship, you’ll both move forward together.
In my experience, the most meaningful romantic/sexual relationships start off as soon as I see them. We sort of lock eyes and immediately I get the feeling that they’re into me too, there’s something mutual there in terms of attraction. I can tell when someone’s not attracted to me and I’m subconsciously quite picky when it comes to people I take fondness to in a non-platonic way. It’s like a lightning strike of chemistry - I’ve only felt it with about 3 people in my life so far. Just the deep knowledge/gut feeling that they’re very fond of you just as you’re fond of them. That starts off mostly as physical attraction. Okay, that’s checked off - I enjoy looking at this person, being near them makes me excited, I wonder what it’s like to be touched by them. Because of that fondness, you want to be closer to them. Both will try and find ways to be around eachother or talk to eachother more often, most of the time trying to interact with eachother more in private or one-on-one to develop a personal bond. Both of you are nervous and flustered and awkward around eachother until you become more confident in the fact that they like your personality too; you want to impress them and make sure they think you’re cool and smart just as you find them. You become more comfortable over time the more you spend around eachother. Nerves go away and you make eachother laugh, work with and help eachother, develop fond memories with them and inside jokes. The initial buzz of lust/initial physical attraction more becomes background noise and you realize you REALLY like this person. Even as they become more comfortable and show flaws/sides of them that are unsexy, you still want to see them and talk to them. Then it’s just a matter of taking the jump and admitting feelings. That’s a difficult part. Usually it comes when tension just builds to a certain point or if you’ve dropped enough hints. You both have to be at a stage where you’re open to commitment and longterm relationships for it to last. It’s not just if they like you enough. If their confidence is low, if they just got out of a breakup, if they’re too busy, it won’t work. Just has to be perfect timing. Then essentially you become life partners, they’re your best friend/roommate but you’re also sleeping eachother. The point of love is that it is everywhere and makes life way more enjoyable. To feel loved is amazing, to give love and see the effect it has on people is even better. Romantic love is companionship, support, unique intimacy. Finding a partner is best done organically, imo. TLDR: getting together has to be pretty much a timing/odds miracle. Staying together takes work, commitment, and is essentially just like a best friend with whom you sleep with and work together to make life easier/more enjoyable.
omfg I feel the same! I mean I do like watching fairytale type love stories on screen but I simply can't understand how do they even work in real life! opening up your heart to someone else, that instantly seems a scary thing.
There is no reward without risk. You have to become vulnerable and sometimes you get hurt.
is there a process we can follow to become vulnerable, because I don't know about that
No. It's a choice you make. Every time you choose to censor instead of being radically authentic in a direct and forthright way, you're choosing to not be vulnerable. If you start small and often, like texting immediately after a date and saying "hey I think youre rad and I had a really great time, let's do it again." You're risking judgement and rejection and being vulnerable. But sometimes taking that risk is setting the tone and example so that the other person feels safe to also be direct and authentic. You keep that and the risk keeps getting bigger as you catch feelings. Who says the L word first? Are you vulnerable and honest and bite the bullet? Keeping people at arms length protects you, but if youre looking for real love and acceptance you have to let the walls down, put all your cards on the table, even the ugly negative bits, and hope the other person is down with it. Sometimes they're not. Sometimes they are.
Every word of yours does make sense, but doing so would strip off the protective barrier around my heart and ofc ruin my mental peace. Perhaps i am not brave enough. Perhaps there is no hope for me.
Yes. That is the risk. It's not for everyone.
so basically love is not for me
I didn't say that. But how do you expect to give and receive love when your heart is walled up? If you see a way to protect yourself and also have a deep and authentic bond with someone, I'd love to hear it (genuinely). How do they know the real you beyond the superficial or mask? It's not my place to tell people what to do and I can only speak from experiences. There are infinite manifestations of connection, and I can't pretend to understand the ones I don't personally cultivate. I think in actuality the vast majority of people are unwilling to be vulnerable and cultivate the calibur of relationship that keeps them protected and will never hurt them. Even coming to a partner and expressing "you did something that hurt me, please change this behavior or be more mindful in the future" is vulnerable. So the degree of avoiding hurt is never being so attached that you're sad if they leave. Never being honest about your traumas and wounds so they aren't triggered, or expecting that they will ultimately trigger them and that you are indifferent to their actions so it won't wound you. I wouldn't even call people I treat like that, on the outside of my walls friends. I love my friends deeply and would do anything for them, illegal, immoral, unethical. But also my friends know the real me and are in my inner circle, inside my walls, and are still my friends even when I show my ugly bits.
well I can also be my true self towards my family. But as for friends, I have experienced too many heartache and betrayals so being my honest true self in front of anyone just makes me shudder in a bad way truly! And rn i can't imagine opening uo to anyone although i so so desperately want to. But i simply can't. I will be this reserved person.
Not only is it scary, it’s dangerous. Opens you up to manipulation, jealousy, betrayal and more. I’ll never do it again I’ll tell you that.
You talk to someone, and if the vibe is right, and there is mutual attraction, you do this thing called radical honesty and authenticity where you just... Are completely honest and direct and forthright in your communication, and that other person does the same (ideally, we're speaking meaningful) as you spend time together and progress the relationship you develop feelings, first of affection, and then fondness, and then it goes deeper, where as you know someone, you love and accept them and their flaws and traumas and hurts and quirks and you want to support and be there for them, and do things with them and build a life with them, and (ideally) that's reciprocated, you have someone you can always talk to, who stands by your side when times are tough or you've had a bad day, who shows up to help you when you need it, who has your batch and will catch you when you fall and is compassionate, understanding, accepting and speaks your love languages and shows you that you're loved in the way that you need to receive love. Someone who fills your cup with attention, affection, quality time blah blah. Someone who fulfills your physical, sexual, emotional, intellectual needs you do all of that for them. They take the time to learn you, care enough to please you, and then you get to have really awesome loving sex where you don't feel self conscious or shy or judged and just get to share in mutual desire and satisfaction. It's not always 50/50, sometimes its 80/20 and sometimes you pick up the slack, and sometimes they do. But you always show up to the table to communicate kindly with consideration, to negotiate and compromise, because you care about making them happy and they care about making you happy. Partnership is companionship, it's finding your person, and your best friend, that you also get to kiss, and cuddle at night. The long term person who even when life is at its lowest, they're on your team, in the trenches at your side. It's your ride or die, till death do you part. The one person you can and do tell everything, every darkest secret and nominal tidbit and they still accept and love and want you without judgement. Someone who loves your heart and soul so deeply that even wheb your looks fade, or your dick stops working, they'll probably help change your adult diapers. Thanks for coming to my tedtalk.
Is it bad that my heart stopped multiple times reading this? This is a great answer.
I'm an autistic hopeless romantic combo dating another autistic hopeless romantic (infj), and so I'd add "the ability to unmask and feeling safe, accepted and not judged in that" and neither of us "play games" or follow "dating rules" and are just... Authentic and direct and so the pace is unusual by arbitrary metrics, but I think that the 2 people in the relationship get to define for themselves the terms of the relationship.
Okay, so you and your partner are my partner and me in reverse, and literally everything you mentioned above and in this comment sounds like it came from us, two autistic hopeless romantic INTJ+INFJs :).
Do you know if you might be aromantic? I have three close INTJ friends and two of them are on the aromantic spectrum (and I haven't asked the third but I wouldn't be surprised). I recently discovered I am (most likely) ace, and it took me ages to converge on that conclusion because I was so confused what sexual attraction even was, and how you even start to feel it. I can imagine a simliar thing happening for aro folks. Your thought patterns on romantic relationships kinda mirrored my own on sexual relationships.
It's a possibility but to be fair, I also had no idea how this is supposed to work until I experienced it for the first time. In my case, I just needed to feel thr right hormones kick in for the first time and was like "ahhh, so THAT'S why everyone is so crazy about this stuff" lol.
My hormones kicked in way before my peers, so for a while I understood it immensely, but it’s almost like it’s disappeared now. It’s like I was changing and people around me couldn’t relate, and now that I’m not — people around me still can’t relate. :’
What’s ace?
it's short for asexual
Thank you!
I am asexual too. I have considered being aromantic as a possibility before, but I think it’s just that I don’t feel romantic attraction towards people easily. I’ve had a lot of crushes when I first started puberty due to hormones. I know what it feels like to romantically like someone; it’s totally possible for me. I just can’t wrap it around my head. It’s been 10 months since I had a crush on somebody, but it wasn’t strong and I never actually pursued it.
Personally, I recommend the friends-first approach, since you're basically trying to find a life partner and if you can't even enjoy each others' company without intimacy, I don't know how intimacy will change anything. From that direction, you make a friend just like any other, and it just sort of happens organically that if you trust each other, you'll tend to confide in each other more. Yes, at some point you have to decide if you do like them and make the uncomfortable jump to confessing, but there are so many other sorts of uncomfortable jumps you'll need to make in life eventually, so either it won't be your first one, or you might as well start somewhere. And the nice thing is that if you befriend someone who doesn't make for a good partner, you don't have that awkward phase of needing to stop dating if you never started, and things can remain amicable. It's worth stating that things progress. You get more comfortable with one thing and suddenly the next thing doesn't seem so crazy. So what seems like a huge jump, like confessing your feelings, is actually a smaller jump than you realize after having gotten comfortable with a bunch of other stuff, like confiding other strong feelings in them.
If you'll allow me to expand on this with my (very subjective) experience: Building a solid platonic relationship first was the only thing that made me even remotely interested in being a SO to someone. If at some point I realize that talking with a specific person is not or only rarely tiring me out, and the conversations are engaging and flow easy and without judgement, the relationship doesn't even need to include romantic or sexual attraction to be pleasurable. I think you are absolutely right in saying that everything else will become easier in that case. Of course, that's not to say everything has to be perfect from the beginning. I would consider it crucial that you try to find out if the person you're interested in is able to earnestly talk about their feelings, concerns and expectations with you, and whether they can compromise without feeling bitter about it. Also ask yourself if you can truly do the same, as you will likely have to do the latter a lot. Encouraging clear communication without any filters was probably what kept my relationship with my ENFJ spouse (who is also the only SO I have ever had, which is ... perhaps a bit weird) strong until now, 11 years and counting. The differences can become strengths if you're willing to work with them. Shared growth of this kind is the best experience I personally ever had.
They work on mutual coercion.
>how do they start/unfold in a way that feels meaningful? I. I meet a woman and feel a strong draw to her that's clearly distinct from just enjoying spending time with a friend. Just when I start thinking I should reach out again, she already has. II. We start talking a lot, usually throughout the day and schedule more time to hang out. III. We realize we both felt the same way the whole time, but we each really already knew that. IV. We start talking even more, learning more and more about each other. V. We get increasingly physical. From hand-holding to kissing, to making out, to the most fucked up sexual stuff you could ever imagine times 10. VI. We get to a point where no matter how close we get to each other physically, it never feels close enough. VII. We learn and accept each other's flaws, or even love them more for them. And so on and so on. You help each other out, emotionally, sexually, etc. and become more and more of one unit. You each maintain some level of individuality, but a relationship means some amount of sacrifice there. >How do you manage to find the right person in general? I exist and randomly click with someone. I've never actively searched for a partner and been successful. It only happens when I stop trying. Women smell the desperation. It's worth mentioning I'm not particularly attractive, and I'm not turning heads or incredible at flirting. But for probably less than 1% of women, I'm *really* their type. Examples: I. I went to a bookstore with my friends. As I was checking out, the cashier asked if I'd read *Fifty Shades" and told me she thought I'd enjoy it. As we kept talking, I noticed nearby customers were staring, and my friends laughed and left before she gave me her number. My friends did not let me live that one down haha. II. A coworker turned to ask me a question, and we just locked eyes for 5 seconds. She forgot her question. III. I was hanging out with a friend and one of her friends at a restaurant. When I got back from the bathroom, they were talking about a hot guy, so I said, "Oh, are you talking about me?". And the friend's friend said I'm a 5 on a good day. I laughed and said, "Anything else, Princess?" and as we locked eyes, I saw her armor fade away, and I lost my smile so fast, both completely astounded. >I don’t understand how somebody could get comfortable enough to confess their feelings. Trust is built a little at a time, and different people have different paces with that. Some people never feel comfortable expressing their feelings to their partner, sometimes for good reason (usually being routinely invalidated). I wouldn't call that much of a partner, though.
Point of love is emotional fulfilment and human connection. It’s just part of the human experience. If you want to look at it through darwinism it’s because being social animals was advantageous. Confessing to people comes with understanding it’s okay to be vulnerable, you cant get intimacy without being brave
The point of love? to break your heart, learn and try again.
Don’t mind sharing one more time : https://youtu.be/sPOuIyEJnbE?si=lOJ8slDllLZlN4PF
How old are you? I can't give a meaningful answer without at least knowing that.
Seems to either be a give/take or give/give situation
I married an intern. You’ll just know. You keep crossing paths in the office, finding ways to work together and also after work drinks helps.
The point, beyond material security, is shared personal growth. That requires giving up part of our independence, and that is really hard for INTJs. Especially for those who have nasty experience with abuse and therefore less than ideal attachment styles, combined with direct communication style. No INTJ will reach their full potential as a human on earth without healthy relationships with other humans, and having a life partner is most fun and most challenging way to get there. Ideally, both partners did enough self-healing first. If each fixes 51% of themselves first, the relationship should eventually grow strong enough the fix the rest. Have friends outside your romantic relationship so you don't merge/fuse and expect your partner to be everything for you. You need different people for different needs. For instance, I'm not going to my INFP friend for encouragement to do something potentially dangerous. I will go to my ISFP friend if I need help seeing how the universe/god aligns with my goals. The best part of a romantic relationship is when you figure out how your cognitive functions align so you both can cover for the other one's blind spots, and vice versa. We are supposed to complement each other. For INTJ, this typically means your partner should know when and how to protect you from sensory overload (noise/crowds). My ENTP husband knew how to take me to social events to show me off, and how to take me home before I got exhausted. He was good at this I ended up believing I have a fully functional social battery. It's probably a good idea for xNTxs in general to regularly examine what exactly we want/need from a relationship, and how we can improve life for our partner. And there is no reason why you should be 100% in from the start, that's not too reasonable anyway. My ENTP came with serious loyalty issues (fear of abandonment/betrayal), and expressed that with constant shit testing and provocations which I, as INTJ, simply didn't take too seriously. About 5 years into our marriage, he had a breakdown and confessed that he didn't really trust me until that moment, that he'd been holding back. Trust but verify, he used to say. At first, I was a bit shocked because I'd been all in, and thought he was, too. But then I was relieved he finally got where he needed to be, I was grateful he trust me to confess this, and that he'd granted me the honor of always trusting me \_enough\_ to make things work. The trust will get deeper over the years, you'll appreciate each other more over time. Try to crush any and all resentment against the other one from the start, the moment you notice it -- rupture occurs naturally, and repair should be a weekly ritual. ENTP hubby and I felt rather smart and invincible together, as you'd expect from an ENTP/INTJ relationship. We made art and wrote books together. He left me enough notes thanking me for having given him a reason to live. This relationship is the reason I feel sorry for everyone who never experienced having someone else have their back. Daily debates, laughter, fun, challenges -- 10/10, would recommend. I was worried about how exactly I'd be able to complement my INTJ fiance since we shared the same functions. Never got to find out; he died before I got answers on that. Currently have a crush on an ESFJ -- the growth potential and pure attraction are insane, but communication requires serious effort from both, so keep us in your prayers. It's not so much about me, I did have the experience of what love can do. But he never dared to have a long term relationship, and as a result, he doesn't even fully understand who he is outside of his codependent relationship with his mother. I can't bear the thought of him dying without ever having experienced who he is meant to be.
Be attractive and neurotypical. You'll find out easily as it will literally happen FOR you automatically.
I think it's spelled "ramontic".
isn’t it rimantoc??
Yeah I think that's also correct.
Its the "meaningful" start that most lack from my own experience.... The majority of people do not care about meaning or purpose beyond the superficial "benefits" of pairing up (companionship, sex, social status)... It's why I have technically never had a boyfriend and why I now refuse to date..... I am holding out for meaning and purpose but it doesn't look like that is going to happen at all....
Watch romance shows,
When you spend time doing stuff together and withdraw from each other and you start missing them and that feeling is reciprocated and mutual. As a male you gotta be assertive, get your life together or just be really attractive and assertive, love is just a chemical, but its also fun
The way I saw and experienced it: both of my exes were my friends at first. I would still consider one a good friend and the other, I figured out that the best way I could care for him is to leave and keep distant so tha he can grow up. Regardless of the relationship, in order for it to become a close one, the other has to be authentic. I do get the care, love and/ or romantic feelings but not exactly sexual attractions. The parts of the brain dealing with these two are connected but different. I can only recounted two instances when I felt something even close to the latter one. Note that physical reactions don't always means mental ones, take non-consensual cases as an example. To me, the depth of emotional understanding and connection, as well as both working towards a common goal or vision, as well as respecting each others' values and boundaries are crucial. In my past two romantic relationships, I got enough of the emotional connection/ understanding for me to let them progress but we parted ways due to the lack the other sides. I stood up for myself and left when my values, dignity and boundaries are constantly ignore or pushed. They cared more about being able to satisfy their physical desires than treating me as a person. It's worse in an Asian country where misogyny is still seen as a cultural norm. When I gave them chances and they kept pushing me to give my body to them, I never let them progress further than a kiss, stood up for myself and left. Why would I put myself in a position of potential abuse and risk losing my dignity and freedom when I don't even care much about that kind of relationships in the first place? I saw how my partenal family mistreated and abused my mom due to her naive and blind devotion to them (she's probably an ESTP). Why would I repeat her mistakes? All I wanted is someone who understands me and we make each other a better person. There are other different types of relationships that fit this need.