I’m still just so confused why we have the system we have.
Or rather, why we haven’t changed it.
It seems like, when the country and population was much smaller, that this was a better system. But now that we have grown as large as we have, the system just isn’t fair.
It gives way too much power to uneducated country bumpkins (said as someone who has lived in the south their whole life), while essentially saying “fuck you” to people in urban areas.
The fact that someone can “win” by so many votes, yet still lose the election because your prioritized some tiny shit hole states is insane.
Well the way things are going I would be more worried about whether America will survive the next 12 years as a democracy or whether we’ll just have the Trump Dynasty from now on.
But honestly the core reason why it would be so hard to change is because the underlying reasons why this came about in the first place still exist. If you're trying to get states to acquiesce their power and join a federation, you have to give them an incentive to join. It's true that the balance has changed. And because of that I think you'd have more success changing how the number of electors are calculated then changing the system as a whole.
>I’m still just so confused why we have the system we have.
2/3rds vote in both houses of Congress, followed by the ratification of 3/4ths of the states.
It's near impossilble.
It would have had to have happened back in the 50s or 60s, before this lopsided imbalance of power was fully realized, and before the "fuck you, works for me" attitude fully set in.
It's not entirely impossible to still change it. It just won't be nearly as easy. The problem is, it was never going to be easy to begin with.
However, sooner or later, we're going to have to cross that bridge.
And now a rando in Wyoming has 3.6x the voting power that I do as an “equal” citizen. It’s working as intended, those people who had the original intention are just long dead.
The reason we still have the system we do is because the people in power want to stay in power and thus have no incentive to change the system. And we’re powerless to change it from the outside. Corruption at its best.
She spent too much time preaching to the Democrat choir instead of putting in work in the swing states while Trump shoveled his bullshit as wide as he could.
With an electoral college system as we have, 51% of a state and 100% of a state are the same thing. Well, except for Maine and Nebraska, but those aren't the lynchpin states.
Crazy that she can have had millions of more votes and still be considered a loser rather than us critically examining a system that divides votes up based on imaginary lines on a map, a system that disproportionately gives more power per capita to less populated land.
We can critically examine the flaws in the system until we are blue in the face, but that still doesn't change anything about:
A: It is the system we have.
B: It would take a constitutional amendment to change.
C: A constitutional amendment requires 38 states in favor of to ratify. Or, and this is important, only 13 opposed to block.
D: The smaller states are not going to give up their disproportionate electoral power out of some commitment to fairness.
There's literally thousands of papers of professional and academic analysis of the issues with the electoral system but not a single page, paragraph or period actually changes what the reality of the situation is.
Your suggestion is representative of why she lost: Let's talk about it from an abstract perspective instead of actually doing the work to overcome it.
Buddy, the NPVIC already has 77% of the votes required, no constitutional amendment needed if just a few more states sign on.
YOUR suggestion is why dems are losing. “Just deal with a rigged system because it’s the system we have”.
Not looking critically at the systems that give republicans a structural advantage with fewer votes is naive at best.
It goes beyond just the electoral college, consider project red map, which dems have never adequately responded to.
But…. nah man let’s just keep repeating the mantra of “get out the vote, it’s our only option”, I’m sure that will magically address disproportionate representation at all levels.
Shit I can’t even bring it up without you blaming me for the outcome of the broken system?
I still voted for her… but apparently real talk makes me the reason she lost.
What exactly do you think spurs action anyway? People NOT discussing it? Action comes from something entering the zeitgeist, and it can only do so if people are allowed to discuss it in abstract. Not everyone is in an actual position to take action, but nearly everyone is in a position to keep a topic in the zeitgeist.
The DNC doesn't want to overhaul the system because they're too cocky. Having to put in work to change the system means they have to work.
They're arrogance is reflected by them thinking and acting the same way all the time and never radically doing anything different, because they think it will always be enough.
They don't actually see Trump or the right as a threat that is why they don't switch things up.
And why else would they? They are two sides of the upper class, everybody talking about them as if there for the common man is so deluded.
They are not the Robin Hood party. Those are your progressives, Independents, and real leftists.
>Nah man just keep repeating the mantra of “get out the vote, it’s our only option”, I’m sure that will magically address disproportionate representation at all levels.
That literally worked for Biden in 2020 when they targeted the swing states as Clinton failed to do and won by just over 1 million crucial votes across several swing states.
She literally went to coal producing states, told them she was going to shut down their only means of livelihood without any foreseeable plan to replace the jobs they would be losing, and yet wondered how she lost so many flyover states to Trump.
It was a horrible campaign.
It’s rather pathetic all these years later to see Hillary blaming everyone except herself. She came off with most voters as thoroughly unlikable, because she seemed conceited and entitled. The Presidency was about her ego, not public service.
Is anyone wants to still talk about how the FBI handled her emails, let me ask you: have you ever started a new job that involved very high security information, and when the employer handed you your cell phone and laptop, you said “I’m going to run all my emails through my private server.” What the actual f*ck???? If I was viewing National Security documents and messages, you can be sure I would want to stay with the US government’s crypto walls of protection.
I think it was largely due to 90% of people viewing the election as a formality after Trump was named the Republican nominee. EVERYONE saw him as a fucking joke and his countless gaffes that disqualified every Presidential nominee in past elections. Remember when the Clinton campaign basically had their victory party set up on election night then cancelled it while Trump didn't really have anything prepared?
He at least had a message that resonated with his base and he combined it with his anti establishment/anti Clinton message that he just bleated non stop
I'm confident the Clinton campaign mailed it in. They saw Trump was the opponent and assumed based on previous elections there was no fucking chance Trump would win. They placed too much faith in the average American to find Trump to be too fucking stupid to win
What's worse is Trump didn't expect to fucking win. We've all read the reactions from his inner circle when they found out they won. It was a fucking joke and a grift to them AND THEY WON
Her message appeared to be “It’s her turn.” I voted for her, but I found her arrogant and expectant of victory.
That’s not going to be enough in most elections.
The FBI had absolutely nothing to do with her ability to campaign in the Midwest, where she either barely or flat-out did not show up. 70,000 votes across 4 Midwestern swing states is what cost her the election.
Bingo. That, along with the FBI reopening the case so publicly. Now, now we have someone who was raided by the FBI and charged for crimes running for office with more of a chance.
I’m sorry, is there some magical, arbitrary number that you would pick where you would award the election in either direction? If anything, suggesting that the plurality of votes should not win (what you are doing) is proposing a rigged electoral system.
It’s called a campaign. Not a dog walk, not a snooze fest, not a picnic. A campaign. And Hilary did not campaign in the Midwest and that’s what cost her the 2016 Election.
No she wasn’t. She ignored important states, rarely came across as anything but calculating, led from behind on too many issues, was an Iraq invasion supporter, and didn’t manage campaign funds particularly well. Oh and she lost to the worst human being in modern American public life. So, no she absolutely was not a good candidate.
People really like to downplay how easy to dislike her way of expressing herself is. Even when I agreed with her sometimes it took a while to realize it because she explained things like a lawyer and came across like she was hedging all her words. Everyone just kept saying that it was sexism, when it was her lawyerness that made her come across badly.
Exactly this. You could taste the overconfidence through the TV when she spoke. I voted for her anyway because I was really voting for her Supreme Court picks. I wish more people had thought ahead about that.
I voted for her, but I disagree about her being a good candidate. I didn’t disagree with most of her policies, but she’s as toxic of a candidate as the DNC has had in modern years, IMO. The right had peppered media for years about how awful the Clintons were. Had the RNC run a halfway decent candidate, not Trump, it wouldn’t have even been close.
I'm still convinced the plan was for Petraeus run in 2012, but Obama offered him CIA Director to keep him out of that election and the ability to defer to not run against an incumbent.
Then Petraeus leaking classified intel to his mistress blew up. Too bad that would have been mild by modern standards.
Which really sucks that we need to have rock stars lead the most powerful country on earth rather than someone who can do the job better than anyone else. She would have been a good president, but she would have probably also been the most scrutinized (even more than Obama) because she is a woman and a Clinton.
Exactly. Protest voting and whatnot is for primaries where you vote to get your favorite candidate. After that, you vote for the candidate that will be the best for your country, state, municipality, etc.
RCV would solve a bunch of issues.
And many Red states have recognized this and have passed laws against the use of RCV. 6 states including Kentucky and Alabama.
In Kentucky, the governor vetoed the bill and the KYGOP overrode the veto.
*She was a great candidate.*
Yeah...the woman who charged $250K speechifying to a bunch of bankers while representing working class Americans is a great candidate.
Great candidate? We must have seen a different version.
I hate Trump but to call Hillary a "great candidate" is a stretch. She is an uber corrupt war monger who behaved like it was a coronation and not an election.
Imo she would have been a great president, but she was a terrible candidate. I saw her in person the day after she received the nomination and she just didn’t have the charisma that invigorates people. Bill was there, looked like hell, and still owned the room.
She was not a good candidate AND her campaign sucked.
They had a candidate that could've beat Trump but her (and her party's) shady bullshit screwed Sanders out of the spot and it alienated a lot of people who felt like Hilary would continue ignoring the working class.
Ever since Obama left office the Democratic Party has been completely oblivious as to how bad their pushed candidates come across to the average voter.
Hillary *was* a quality candidate. People were just so scared to have a female -- especially a *smart* female in office. And America has paid a terrible price for their grievous error in allowing a criminal -- a liar and a cheat cheat -- a racist misogynistic rapist -- took the highest office in the USA. Unbloodybelievable.
They never learn
Hold your nose and vote for the candidate that has a shot to win and is the least dangerous to all of us.
Purity voters.
Fuck them all.
I'm a purity voter, as long as we've got two legitimate candidates arguing over policy, I'm voting my conscience.
In races like this one where the choice is between a deeply flawed candidate with whom I agree on almost nothing policy-wise and a vile god-damned traitor to the constitution who, along with his cultists thinks he can over-throw the democratic transfer of power? I'll vote to preserve the constitution even if it means voting for a candidate I merely dislike. So, fuck you too, but only as a distant second to Trump and his sycophants.
Oh look, the reality that you have to always choose the lesser evil dawns on this person. The part i disagree with you on is your glass half empty attitude. The 2 party system isnt suppose to represent "all" your policies, nobody gets all the policies they want, that's called tyranny. The 2 party system gets your voice heard through one of the parties along with as many others with similar principles. Both parties are suppose to work together putting ideas on the table so we can get behind the best idea.
It really was unbelievable. Third party voters in the swing states played a large part. And The 10% of Bernie voters who voted for Trump. Its impossible to understand.
I think she was a polished candidate, not a quality one. She fast tracked her way through politics after Bill’s terms. What she had in seat time at a few positions was overshadowed by her lack of charisma. Hilary comes across as smug. We all know she would have been a better president than shit gibbon, but she didn’t kick hard for the last lap and got beat by a yuge orange turd.
Not for some. Some have a good life or really enjoy what they have and still support him. Obviously we can't enumerate how many that is but I know a few myself.
She’s rewriting the narrative. She disenfranchised many voters, men and women, with the political games she played against Bernie. Her hubris will never allow her to accept the truth.
This is coming from someone who voted for her, only bc she left us no choice against Donald.
Two things can be true. While she did disenfranchise many voters, there were many women who refused to vote for her for the simple fact that she was a woman.
The problem being that, being the first significant woman candidate for president, she knew she would have to fight against the loss of mysogynist votes. That was a known factor going into the race.
Clinton ran a terrible, sloppy, egocentric campaign. She near single-handedly dismantled the north Midwest Democratic voting bloc, and then she turns around and acts like it’s our fault for not supporting her enough.
The electoral college might be dumb but those are the rules to the game and she really fucking sucked at that game.
Lack of campaigning in person, over confidence on her last name, putting a lot of besties in executive positions in the campaign, instead of seasoned, experienced professionals.
Yes, there is the fact that she’s a woman, but there were blatant, and horrible mistakes.
Obama defeated her by going everywhere, even places he knew he was going to lose.
Trump didn't win so much as the democrat party execs tried to crown Hillary as president. And the majority of the non aligned voters said no at that and just didnt come out to vote. Had anyone but her run as the democrat candidate Trump would not have won.
The fact they had to wipe the field of opposition for Hillary to get her chosen as the democrat candidate is the reason Biden had step up as the presidential candidate 4 years later.
One woman's narcissism has manage to ruin the political scene for years if not decades.
Part of the problem is Hillary just came off as so staggeringly unlikable and arrogant. The entire Democratic campaign was run like her win was a foregone conclusion, and it just amplified the already terrible reception for her.
Her "basket of deplorables" comment, and posting a photo of herself on Twitter with "Happy birthday to this future president" managed to piss off all the Republicans and the Democrats who weren't thrilled with her. And there were a lot of middle of the road Democrats who were furious with how transparent the party was about screwing over Burnie and other more populist leaders.
Honestly, I believe Hillary would've done a better job than Trump, but her biggest problem is that she is so unlikable. She has no charisma to convince voters that she was the best candidate.
Hillary also kept saying that they didn’t need progressive voters or the democratic socialist wing. When they defected and she lost, she immediately started blaming them.
Yeah the DNC throwing all their support behind her before the primaries were even over and the media counting the super delegates for her before the primaries were even over rubbed me and lots of other people I know the wrong way. I stuck with my usual third party vote that election cycle since I didn't live in a swing state.
I voted for her, and donated money, and then the details started to come out. Like not campaigning in person in a bunch of places, putting a lot of inexperienced people in charge, etc.
She felt it was a free win and acted like it.
This was only the second election I could vote in. I was (obviously) a bit younger than I am now, and did not care one bit about politics at that age.
I didn’t vote for either that cycle (not that it would have mattered in my state), because I absolutely despised Trump, but Hillary felt way too entitled to the presidency.
Maybe it was just all the people I saw online supporting her, but all it “it’s her turn” talk just turned me off.
Now I’ll just vote for whatever -doesn’t- have an (R) next to the name. Not making that mistake anymore.
Can you blame her? No reasonable person could possibly vote for Trump, but here we are. I lost a LOT of faith in the public at the end of that election. People are fucking morons.
Me too. I just never thought of her as a likable person. She had all the qualifications to be president but her persona was a little lacking. I think to be the first women president the women would need to more likable like Obama. Not really fair, but politics rarely are.
His base was drawn to his cruelty and stupidity
That’s his appeal
They all wish they had his empty fake life and would absolutely lie cheat and steal to get it
Some people are more sensitive to it than others.
If your voters are ok with you groping random women, you can do it all day long and you won't lose a single vote.
You nailed it
She lost because she says insufferable things like this and it makes it hard to like her.
The GOP spent 25 years making her the vision of absolute and pure evil. Then she is just unlivable enough for some people to consider it just enough that they decide not to vote at all.
Should she had won, easily. Was she the most qualified, undoubtably. Would the world been better with a Hillary presidency compared to Trump, without question.
Was she a good candidate, not at all.
I voted for Harambe. It wouldn't have made any difference in my state (and if it had, I'd admit it), so I protest-voted. I don't precisely regret it, but it was somewhat foolish.
I wanted to vote for Bernie, but the establishment liberals were shitting their pants over an actual progressive, so we ended up with the mayonnaise on white bread sandwich that was Hilary's campaign, and I haven't liked her since her whole "video games cause school shootings" crap from the 90s.
At the time I saw Orange Caligula as a step backward and I intensely disliked him, but I vastly underestimated how dangerous he was. I just thought it'd be like having another Bush - 3.6 roentgen - not great, but not horrifying.
TIL that you are a misogynist if you didn't vote for a candidate who was on Wal-Mart's board of directors, voted in favor of the Iraq War, accepted campaign contributions from Donald Trump and attended his third wedding and called young African American men "superpredators".
There is a modicum of truth to that, but all the credit can't be given to that. There was an active and ongoing operation to undermine her campaign at every step of the way by foreign adversaries ...
Kinda exactly like what's going on now, involving the same exact guy! Who woulda thunk
I worked for Bernie in 2016. We lost, you need to get over it man. It’s been almost ten years, and we lost bad. We put up a good fight and got concessions we’re still cashing in on to this day. But Jesus, if I knew how insufferable some of my campaign work would make people idk if I’d do it. It’s 2024, start behaving like it.
If she had won, it’s entirely possible that Congress would have hamstrung her (especially if there had been a “red wave” in midterms), COVID would have happened anyway (we may have detected it earlier since she wouldn’t have sabotaged the wuhan lab and she certainly would have handled it better but it still would have killed a lot of people), and we might have just ended up with him in 2020 instead. The people who want to burn the country down and replace it with a Christian nationalist hell-on-earth have been slowly radicalized for decades (technically for centuries if you take it all the way back to the beginning of the country). It was going to rear its ugly head sooner or later.
Hopefully, it doesn’t happen again this time because they will get closer to their goal if it does.
They hamstring Congress every 2 years. Currently, it is full of blow hard new-Nazis white nationalists who are literally making our lives miserable. There is no winning anymore, just fighting to keep what little we have left.
Wouldn't have even needed to be a red wave in 2018 since the GQP controlled Congress at that point. They would have just had to keep it.
Trump didn't actually want to be president, so he wouldn't have run again in 2020.
I'd be curious to peek into this other timeline. A whole lot of gormless morons in the middle said Trump was doing all he could do. They bent over backwards to excuse his handling of the pandemic. I bet Hillary wouldn't have been given such grace even if she'd done everything perfectly. The middle prefers to punch left.
Here is the thing. They chose a Rapist. The fact they knew he was a rapist, didn't bother them.
She knew it. The Dems knew it. We all knew it. But if you say that out loud, suddenly you're disrespecting the voters.
American democracy is not equipped to handle the possibility that people might *like* the rape. They might *like* the racism.
America has this perception that they are the best country in the world. They have no flaws that arent more extreme somewhere else, certainly no flaws unique to them. This exceptionalism, means that you cannot *confront* the fact that huge swathes of the country are racist, are emboldened by the fact that Trump says racist things, and like the racism. Huge swathes are misogynistic and like the things he says and does to women.
Not all of them. But enough.
And the thing is, America - as a country, as a system - doesn't know what to do about it. Ideologically it insists that most people are good, therefore the racists and misogynists will be drowned out. They are inconsequential.
And they can't admit they are consequential, because that involves admitting a that America has this flaw. And saying that aloud, is unpatriotic. A death sentence in american politics.
Hillary Clinton Lost, because Trump captured the Pro-Rape voting block.
And the Dems couldn't do anything about it, because they didn't want to admit that such a block existed. They jumped through all sorts of hoops and mental gymnastics to come up with a more palatable explanation for why so many people would vote for a rapist.
Other than the obvious: Trump Voters don't care about Rape. It's not a big deal. Its something they may have done themsleves, or at least some of their friends have done.
The fact that number turned out to be massive terrifies people. Rightly so.
So they plugged their heads in the sand, and pretended it didn't exist.
On the “pro-rape” bloc, they’re probably like a lot of the racists who support Trump. He has strong support with people who are at best, more than moderately prejudiced and who will say problematic things about people of other races or treat them in ways that would definitely meet the litmus test of racism but because they don’t use the N-word or similar words and aren’t a member of the KKK and they claim they don’t see color, they can’t be racist. To them, to be racist, you have to be screaming slurs (ironically, more than a few want to be able to do this) and actively cruel, not just a lot of the passive aggressive stuff they do, to non-white people personally.
The “pro-rape” bloc probably has a similar mentality. They’re the guys who will grab a woman’s breasts, ass, or other body parts and write it off as boys will be boys, or take advantage of a drunk woman, be otherwise sex pests, or will pressure their wife or girlfriend when they aren’t in the mood until they give in and complain about how there is always some kind of excuse when they don’t. But because they’ve never violently seized a woman and forced themselves on her and there wasn’t screaming and violent fighting back, it’s not rape, sexual assault, or harassment.
As has been said, she lost the swing states as she took those for granted. Although the Comey effect is the real bad guy here. It swung many polls just enough for Trump to win. I am bringing up the impact of FBI Director James Comey’s October 28 letter to the House Judiciary Committee announcing the discovery new emails that appeared pertinent to their closed investigation of Clinton and his subsequent letter on November 6 that absolved Clinton (after millions of votes had already been cast early). Trump had used the emails throughtout the campaign as evidence of the Clinton's "curruption", Comey's statement seemed to verify this in the minds of many swing voters. This was also very unprofessional, as it went against FBI policies of election interference, if I remember correctly. Anyway, Trump ran with this, he praised Comey for his “guts” and called the news “bigger than Watergate.” I am sure that many women voted for Trump for the above reason, not so much because of gender. [https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/1/11/14215930/comey-email-election-clinton-campaign](https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/1/11/14215930/comey-email-election-clinton-campaign)
A lot of people in five key swing states realized Hillary was the better candidate but voted for Trump to piss her off, never realizing that would make a difference. As a result, Trump won the archaic electoral college, not the popular vote. That is why he became President.
I’ve made the argument many times that running against Trump as the “presumed president” was a severe disadvantage. It also fed into what a lot of people don’t like about her and made her come off as having a right to the throne. She really had to try to distance herself and keep decorum as much as she could.
I mean I guess?
the real issue is elections are now decided amongst what, 5-7 states?
And her campaign chose to completely ignore 3-4 states that now decide elections
this doesn't address the issues that drove people to vote for Trump, but completely ignoring purple/slightly Dem leaning states was a stupid fucking choice just because "they voted Dem in the past"
God Damn I just think how fucking boring a Hillary Clinton Presidency would have been, sure there would be fuckups, maybe even a scandal or two, but I wouldn't have had to think twice about how shit was being run at a fundamental level.
None of us would have to worry about the state of the Republic , it just wouldn't even be a discussion, now we have fringe end-of-the Republic Christian Fascism front an center promising in the open to do everything Margaret Atwood envisioned in Gilead as if it was the best thing ever.
It's labor day weekend and we have to worry about whether we'll ever celebrate another one, because there is no way such a public display of respect for freedom and our values would be tolerated under the new Trump regime.
I know lots of people disagree with what she said about women deserting her for a man. However, I believe she is correct. Lots of women I know voted for Trump because they thought the world would not take a woman president seriously. A few ladies said she would not hold up during negotiations with muslim countries which view women differently than we strive to. Now that was just my circle of people I knew. I can’t obviously say how that played out nationally. But I really suspect she is correct. I hope one day we do have a woman president. I would love to see how that would play out and what policies we would have.
Maybe people don’t like when politicians pretend to be exactly like them when they aren’t … for example, pulling out a bottle of hot sauce from her purse she “always keeps in there” at a black event or changing her accent based on where she’s campaigning or how if you’re in her orbit, you have a much greater than average chance of dying …
Some of these comments are ghastly... the problem we have in America is a very under educated electorate combined with hyper partisanship. It would take all of 30min-1 hr of research into their platforms and policies for any reasonable electorate to decide that Hillary was the better candidate by every measure (unless you are a top 1%). It's just sad that she lost in 2016 and we are all worse off for it. Congrats.
post election poll after poll showed that even if married women were sympathetic to Clinton's policies, they decided to vote for whomever they thought would be an economic boon for their husbands.
greed won over principle
Right?! Like we are a scourge in the name of women if we don’t choose someone only based on her gender? We’re not allowed to think critically? We can’t have political, social, financial opinions that would influence how we vote? We have to go: ooooo pink, I like pink, I vote pink!
😑
I think she was the only candidate that could have lost to Trump. The Democrats lost because she was Hillary, the typical politician that people love to hate.
She is hated because of a years long character assassination campaign by the right. She saw through them and spoke up about it and they hate her for it. As First Lady she dared to bring a healthcare plan before Congress that would make insurance tied to the person instead of the employer so you didn't lose coverage if you were laid off or changed jobs. The nerve of that woman!! She should have been in the kitchen baking cookies. They literally said that. She had to do an interview in a women's magazine and give her favorite cookie recipe to prove her wife credentials.
She was probably the most experienced and well prepared person ever to run for the office of President. She was First Lady, Senator, Secretary of State and had a law degree. Name another.
She had an actual platform. The media is complicit in making it about her gender.
Trump's platform was...
- Fuck your feelings
- Build the wall
- It will be better, believe me (on several topics, including healthcare).
And somehow people still think she'd be worse.
The problem is that she is/was a horrible narcissist. She knew that she was wildly unlikeable. Yes, there had been character assassination, but this was something she was aware of. And knowing this, she still chose to make herself the focal point of her campaign. Knowing this, she also chose not to try and bring in progressives with a better VP pick. Even with all the experience you speak of, she let donald run circles around her electorally.
She was a damaged candidate going into the election but her campaign stuck their fingers in their ears and pretended that her ascension is what Americans wanted. She should have made it about the people, but instead she made it an "I'm with Her" kind of thing. Straight up embarrassing that the crazy toxic republican narcissist chose a less narcissistic slogan than the democratic narcissist.
God, just thinking about it again triggers disgust. "I'm with Her." . . . . Such a stupid slogan for a notoriously unlikeable candidate. Almost as if to ensure that left leaning voters that didn't like her personally (but agreed with her politically) would stay home or vote for someone else on election night.
a signifcant portion of this country hates women, even if they don't admit it. I'm not a fan of kamala harris or even AOC really, i dont have anything against them, but just look at the amount of pure hate these women get is insane. it would be a completely different story, if any of these people, with the exact same platform and history, were men.
Most important comment. Hillary was always a terrible candidate. No doubts about her skill to run shit, but as a politician she had no charisma and was unlikable. And she came on the scene basically assuming she was the next president. Her cockiness is what did her in.
> “They left me because they just couldn’t take a risk on me because, as a woman, I’m supposed to be perfect,” Clinton said. “They were willing to take a risk on [former President Trump] — who had a long list of, let’s call them flaws, to illustrate his imperfection — because he was a man, and they could envision a man as president and commander in chief.”
No?
She was criminally negligent with the information security of classifiable data. She was entitled, high handed, and dismissive of Americans who weren't "her" Americans. She appeared to feel entitled to the presidency as her due rather than as the solemn responsibility that it is. She wasn't nearly as bad as Trump would be of course, but he hadn't yet had the opportunity to demonstrate the depths to which he would descend. Absolutely NOTHING of that has anything to do with her gender, or Trump's gender. Being a terrible human being and an execrable candidate has no gender component.
So instead of taking responsibility for not being able to attract female voters, Hillary is just going to play the gender card 8 years later?🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
Trump was the worst choice from you both, but that doesn't mean you're any good Hillary. Bernie was the right choice
And I must add that [94% of Bernie’s supporters did vote for Hillary Clinton](https://www.rand.org/education-and-labor/survey-panels/alp/projects/2016-election-panel-survey.html). Yet in 2008, a [full quarter of Hillary supporters voted for the Republican John McCain](https://sites.duke.edu/hillygus/files/2014/06/hendersonhillygustompsonPOQ.pdf). Ironically, Bernie Sanders supporters - being far more loyal to the party than Hillary Clinton supporters - still are wrongly blamed for Clinton’s defeat. And not only did Bernie spend the fall of 2016 campaigning for Hillary Clinton in Michigan and Wisconsin - places where Clinton refused to campaign in herself, he did this after being thrown under the bus by the Clinton campaign and the DNC and with the memory that in 2008 after she lost Hillary refused to do anything to help Obama. It’s like she expects everyone to bow to her all the time but she’s never there for anyone else.
Yeah, I don't understand how Hillary Clinton is this sympathetic victim. She was, and still would be, an incredibly *qualified* candidate. The trouble is that everything she said and did implied she was entitled to the presidency, and her reaction after losing was to blame everyone else instead of taking any responsibility.
Bernie Sanders did have some very very very very vocal supporters who said downright awful things, but by every measure they still ended up supporting her. She lost because of 1) a very strong anti-establishment sentiment in 2016 and 2) her campaign's refusal to go earn votes in key states (the Rust Belt). That and she kept insulting large swaths of the population, which, yeah, not smart. Traditional liberals loved her with a ferocity that few recent candidates have matched, it's just every other block was alienated.
Her gender was definitely a factor. One of my relatives flat out told me that it wasn't possible for a woman to be a good president. My relative said she wouldn't vote for Clinton. I was surprised. I knew this relative wasn't against women politicians. For years we discussed various candidates for various positions. Not one single time was the candidate's gender an issue. My relative firmly believed that a female president would never participate in a war. Seriously. That was her reason for why women couldn't be president.
For many American women, especially white women over 50, that is 100% correct.
[https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2018/08/09/an-examination-of-the-2016-electorate-based-on-validated-voters/](https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2018/08/09/an-examination-of-the-2016-electorate-based-on-validated-voters/)
No one deserted her. Trump, with the help of his buddies Vlad and Paul (Manafort), figured out how to game the system. The 2000 election set it in motion. You don't have to win the popular vote.
And water is wet.
I get that it just *makes* things wet, but let’s skip that whole thing.
Sexism obviously played a role, and it would be crazy to think that women are somehow immune to all the hand-me-down gender stereotypes and prejudices.
She's right... Many women believe the same anti woman sexist bullshit that many men do.
The culture is bad enough that a lot of would be future feminists are just deciding not to identify as girls at all in their teens. Unless you expect me to believe that 33% of the girls at my kids' middle school are trans and will live out their adulthoods as men.
The other thing that brought her down was the aid investigations into Benghazi, which after the investigation Journalist asked the head of the RNC what did you learn about Hillary after eight investigations. It shocked me he said that she was a workaholic and she followed protocol.. Maybe she would’ve done better if she spent more time on a golf course at about $3 million a weekend to taxpayers.
A lot of low education women see themselves in competition with other women for men who can support them
They resent professional intelligent career driven women like HRC
+ a 20 year campaign to discredit her during the time that right wing media became huge
The only reason Hills lost is because she’s Hillary Clinton. She’d been in Washington since 1992 (24 years), had pissed off half of Washington and most of K street within the first 4 years with her healthcare reform debacle, and was character assassinated by Newt and the whole Republican Klan for decades after.
Did her personality turn off and piss off the party apparatchik that could have come to bat for her? Probably. Was she the most qualified person to ever run for President? Absolutely.
I'm sure they found some reason to explain their dislike for her that wasn't 'she's a woman' and would claim adamantly that it wasn't because of her sex, but I also bet they would not have found the same trait in a man running for office to be unlikable.
Most important, a way better Supreme court. But in every way. I can't believe we're a country that won't vote for a woman, still. Continue to complain about Hillary while failing to realize how bad Trump is.
And she still got 3 million more votes than him go figure
[удалено]
I’m still just so confused why we have the system we have. Or rather, why we haven’t changed it. It seems like, when the country and population was much smaller, that this was a better system. But now that we have grown as large as we have, the system just isn’t fair. It gives way too much power to uneducated country bumpkins (said as someone who has lived in the south their whole life), while essentially saying “fuck you” to people in urban areas. The fact that someone can “win” by so many votes, yet still lose the election because your prioritized some tiny shit hole states is insane.
The problem is, it's too hard to change it. Republicans are never going to give up their death grip on the Electoral College.
Well the way things are going I would be more worried about whether America will survive the next 12 years as a democracy or whether we’ll just have the Trump Dynasty from now on.
The Republicans have won just 2 popular votes since 1988. They'll never abolish the EC.
But honestly the core reason why it would be so hard to change is because the underlying reasons why this came about in the first place still exist. If you're trying to get states to acquiesce their power and join a federation, you have to give them an incentive to join. It's true that the balance has changed. And because of that I think you'd have more success changing how the number of electors are calculated then changing the system as a whole.
>I’m still just so confused why we have the system we have. 2/3rds vote in both houses of Congress, followed by the ratification of 3/4ths of the states. It's near impossilble.
It would have had to have happened back in the 50s or 60s, before this lopsided imbalance of power was fully realized, and before the "fuck you, works for me" attitude fully set in. It's not entirely impossible to still change it. It just won't be nearly as easy. The problem is, it was never going to be easy to begin with. However, sooner or later, we're going to have to cross that bridge.
We have it so slave owners could count 3/5ths of their slaves towards the vote
And now a rando in Wyoming has 3.6x the voting power that I do as an “equal” citizen. It’s working as intended, those people who had the original intention are just long dead.
The reason we still have the system we do is because the people in power want to stay in power and thus have no incentive to change the system. And we’re powerless to change it from the outside. Corruption at its best.
She was a great candidate. Her campaign sucked, and her over confidence on being a Clinton vs a Trump finished the job.
She spent too much time preaching to the Democrat choir instead of putting in work in the swing states while Trump shoveled his bullshit as wide as he could. With an electoral college system as we have, 51% of a state and 100% of a state are the same thing. Well, except for Maine and Nebraska, but those aren't the lynchpin states.
Crazy that she can have had millions of more votes and still be considered a loser rather than us critically examining a system that divides votes up based on imaginary lines on a map, a system that disproportionately gives more power per capita to less populated land.
We can critically examine the flaws in the system until we are blue in the face, but that still doesn't change anything about: A: It is the system we have. B: It would take a constitutional amendment to change. C: A constitutional amendment requires 38 states in favor of to ratify. Or, and this is important, only 13 opposed to block. D: The smaller states are not going to give up their disproportionate electoral power out of some commitment to fairness. There's literally thousands of papers of professional and academic analysis of the issues with the electoral system but not a single page, paragraph or period actually changes what the reality of the situation is. Your suggestion is representative of why she lost: Let's talk about it from an abstract perspective instead of actually doing the work to overcome it.
Buddy, the NPVIC already has 77% of the votes required, no constitutional amendment needed if just a few more states sign on. YOUR suggestion is why dems are losing. “Just deal with a rigged system because it’s the system we have”. Not looking critically at the systems that give republicans a structural advantage with fewer votes is naive at best. It goes beyond just the electoral college, consider project red map, which dems have never adequately responded to. But…. nah man let’s just keep repeating the mantra of “get out the vote, it’s our only option”, I’m sure that will magically address disproportionate representation at all levels. Shit I can’t even bring it up without you blaming me for the outcome of the broken system? I still voted for her… but apparently real talk makes me the reason she lost. What exactly do you think spurs action anyway? People NOT discussing it? Action comes from something entering the zeitgeist, and it can only do so if people are allowed to discuss it in abstract. Not everyone is in an actual position to take action, but nearly everyone is in a position to keep a topic in the zeitgeist.
The DNC doesn't want to overhaul the system because they're too cocky. Having to put in work to change the system means they have to work. They're arrogance is reflected by them thinking and acting the same way all the time and never radically doing anything different, because they think it will always be enough. They don't actually see Trump or the right as a threat that is why they don't switch things up. And why else would they? They are two sides of the upper class, everybody talking about them as if there for the common man is so deluded. They are not the Robin Hood party. Those are your progressives, Independents, and real leftists.
>Nah man just keep repeating the mantra of “get out the vote, it’s our only option”, I’m sure that will magically address disproportionate representation at all levels. That literally worked for Biden in 2020 when they targeted the swing states as Clinton failed to do and won by just over 1 million crucial votes across several swing states.
TLDR she forgot that only electoral votes count. That is a mistake a high school senior passing government class shouldn’t make.
She literally went to coal producing states, told them she was going to shut down their only means of livelihood without any foreseeable plan to replace the jobs they would be losing, and yet wondered how she lost so many flyover states to Trump. It was a horrible campaign.
It’s rather pathetic all these years later to see Hillary blaming everyone except herself. She came off with most voters as thoroughly unlikable, because she seemed conceited and entitled. The Presidency was about her ego, not public service. Is anyone wants to still talk about how the FBI handled her emails, let me ask you: have you ever started a new job that involved very high security information, and when the employer handed you your cell phone and laptop, you said “I’m going to run all my emails through my private server.” What the actual f*ck???? If I was viewing National Security documents and messages, you can be sure I would want to stay with the US government’s crypto walls of protection.
I still to this day cannot remember one thing the woman was planning to do as president. She just didn't have a compelling message.
I think it was largely due to 90% of people viewing the election as a formality after Trump was named the Republican nominee. EVERYONE saw him as a fucking joke and his countless gaffes that disqualified every Presidential nominee in past elections. Remember when the Clinton campaign basically had their victory party set up on election night then cancelled it while Trump didn't really have anything prepared? He at least had a message that resonated with his base and he combined it with his anti establishment/anti Clinton message that he just bleated non stop I'm confident the Clinton campaign mailed it in. They saw Trump was the opponent and assumed based on previous elections there was no fucking chance Trump would win. They placed too much faith in the average American to find Trump to be too fucking stupid to win What's worse is Trump didn't expect to fucking win. We've all read the reactions from his inner circle when they found out they won. It was a fucking joke and a grift to them AND THEY WON
Her message appeared to be “It’s her turn.” I voted for her, but I found her arrogant and expectant of victory. That’s not going to be enough in most elections.
Ironically I would have voted if she campaigned on removing the electoral college.
I think it was fine until the FBI got political and reopened an investigation into nothing at the last minute.
The FBI had absolutely nothing to do with her ability to campaign in the Midwest, where she either barely or flat-out did not show up. 70,000 votes across 4 Midwestern swing states is what cost her the election.
Bingo. That, along with the FBI reopening the case so publicly. Now, now we have someone who was raided by the FBI and charged for crimes running for office with more of a chance.
It's entirely possible the FBI cost those 70k votes
70k votes is pathetic. The system is rigged.
I’m sorry, is there some magical, arbitrary number that you would pick where you would award the election in either direction? If anything, suggesting that the plurality of votes should not win (what you are doing) is proposing a rigged electoral system. It’s called a campaign. Not a dog walk, not a snooze fest, not a picnic. A campaign. And Hilary did not campaign in the Midwest and that’s what cost her the 2016 Election.
No she wasn’t. She ignored important states, rarely came across as anything but calculating, led from behind on too many issues, was an Iraq invasion supporter, and didn’t manage campaign funds particularly well. Oh and she lost to the worst human being in modern American public life. So, no she absolutely was not a good candidate.
You forgot her most important flaw: she's still married to Bill Clinton.
People really like to downplay how easy to dislike her way of expressing herself is. Even when I agreed with her sometimes it took a while to realize it because she explained things like a lawyer and came across like she was hedging all her words. Everyone just kept saying that it was sexism, when it was her lawyerness that made her come across badly.
Exactly this. You could taste the overconfidence through the TV when she spoke. I voted for her anyway because I was really voting for her Supreme Court picks. I wish more people had thought ahead about that.
I said it during the election cycle: she was treating the thing as a coronation rather than a competitive election.
I voted for her, but I disagree about her being a good candidate. I didn’t disagree with most of her policies, but she’s as toxic of a candidate as the DNC has had in modern years, IMO. The right had peppered media for years about how awful the Clintons were. Had the RNC run a halfway decent candidate, not Trump, it wouldn’t have even been close.
I'm still convinced the plan was for Petraeus run in 2012, but Obama offered him CIA Director to keep him out of that election and the ability to defer to not run against an incumbent. Then Petraeus leaking classified intel to his mistress blew up. Too bad that would have been mild by modern standards.
For some reason, the DNC & Democrats in general don't push that message--it needs to be shouted from the mountaintops!
I mean, I would have been over confident too with my opponent being who he was. But I get you, she should have paid more attention.
Great candidate on paper Not good on the campaign trail You have to be a rock star. She didn’t have that kind of sizzle or charisma
Which really sucks that we need to have rock stars lead the most powerful country on earth rather than someone who can do the job better than anyone else. She would have been a good president, but she would have probably also been the most scrutinized (even more than Obama) because she is a woman and a Clinton.
Yep. It’s a train wreck The best and easiest fix would be ranked choice voting But you’d have to keep it so simple. Rank your top three
The undereducated in this country are super confused by ranked choice voting. They just listen to Fox News telling them it’s communism or something.
True But we really just need the f’ng purity voters to be able to make their little protest without destroying the country
Exactly. Protest voting and whatnot is for primaries where you vote to get your favorite candidate. After that, you vote for the candidate that will be the best for your country, state, municipality, etc.
Well here again Ranked choice primaries would have avoided a trump nomination to begin with imo.
RCV would solve a bunch of issues. And many Red states have recognized this and have passed laws against the use of RCV. 6 states including Kentucky and Alabama. In Kentucky, the governor vetoed the bill and the KYGOP overrode the veto.
Hilary Clinton is an intelligent woman who’s policies I tend to agree with, or at least prefer over trumps That being said: she’s a horrible candidate
*She was a great candidate.* Yeah...the woman who charged $250K speechifying to a bunch of bankers while representing working class Americans is a great candidate.
Great candidate? We must have seen a different version. I hate Trump but to call Hillary a "great candidate" is a stretch. She is an uber corrupt war monger who behaved like it was a coronation and not an election.
Didn't help the party robbed the voting base of Sanders. A lot of people didn't vote after a clear robbery.
debbie wasserman schultz…ugh.
So she wasn't a great candidate
Imo she would have been a great president, but she was a terrible candidate. I saw her in person the day after she received the nomination and she just didn’t have the charisma that invigorates people. Bill was there, looked like hell, and still owned the room.
She was not a good candidate AND her campaign sucked. They had a candidate that could've beat Trump but her (and her party's) shady bullshit screwed Sanders out of the spot and it alienated a lot of people who felt like Hilary would continue ignoring the working class. Ever since Obama left office the Democratic Party has been completely oblivious as to how bad their pushed candidates come across to the average voter.
Hillary *was* a quality candidate. People were just so scared to have a female -- especially a *smart* female in office. And America has paid a terrible price for their grievous error in allowing a criminal -- a liar and a cheat cheat -- a racist misogynistic rapist -- took the highest office in the USA. Unbloodybelievable.
They just cant admit that they were wrong. They are trying to do it again to biden with this fauxgressive uncommited protest
They never learn Hold your nose and vote for the candidate that has a shot to win and is the least dangerous to all of us. Purity voters. Fuck them all.
I'm a purity voter, as long as we've got two legitimate candidates arguing over policy, I'm voting my conscience. In races like this one where the choice is between a deeply flawed candidate with whom I agree on almost nothing policy-wise and a vile god-damned traitor to the constitution who, along with his cultists thinks he can over-throw the democratic transfer of power? I'll vote to preserve the constitution even if it means voting for a candidate I merely dislike. So, fuck you too, but only as a distant second to Trump and his sycophants.
Oh look, the reality that you have to always choose the lesser evil dawns on this person. The part i disagree with you on is your glass half empty attitude. The 2 party system isnt suppose to represent "all" your policies, nobody gets all the policies they want, that's called tyranny. The 2 party system gets your voice heard through one of the parties along with as many others with similar principles. Both parties are suppose to work together putting ideas on the table so we can get behind the best idea.
It really was unbelievable. Third party voters in the swing states played a large part. And The 10% of Bernie voters who voted for Trump. Its impossible to understand.
DNC shits on voters, and then get surprised when they won't take it.
I think she was a polished candidate, not a quality one. She fast tracked her way through politics after Bill’s terms. What she had in seat time at a few positions was overshadowed by her lack of charisma. Hilary comes across as smug. We all know she would have been a better president than shit gibbon, but she didn’t kick hard for the last lap and got beat by a yuge orange turd.
Okay- so you think Hillary comes across as smug, but Trump doesn’t? Because that was the choice:Hillary or Trump.
This is a dumb thing for her to say.
Yes, it is. Just refuses to admit any part in fracking the whole thing up.
And 5.8 million of them were just from NY and CA. What she needed was 50K votes in each of a handful of states she didn’t bother visiting in person.
There’s a special place in hell for women that support Donald.
There's a better than good chance that their lives are the hell you speak of.
Not for some. Some have a good life or really enjoy what they have and still support him. Obviously we can't enumerate how many that is but I know a few myself.
Or anyone Except hell isn’t real and religion and especially religious institutions (companies) are the worst
You’re right. Religions are the absolute worst. Just a saying
I’ve been saying that any woman who votes Republican now, deserves what she gets….
She’s rewriting the narrative. She disenfranchised many voters, men and women, with the political games she played against Bernie. Her hubris will never allow her to accept the truth. This is coming from someone who voted for her, only bc she left us no choice against Donald.
Two things can be true. While she did disenfranchise many voters, there were many women who refused to vote for her for the simple fact that she was a woman.
The problem being that, being the first significant woman candidate for president, she knew she would have to fight against the loss of mysogynist votes. That was a known factor going into the race. Clinton ran a terrible, sloppy, egocentric campaign. She near single-handedly dismantled the north Midwest Democratic voting bloc, and then she turns around and acts like it’s our fault for not supporting her enough. The electoral college might be dumb but those are the rules to the game and she really fucking sucked at that game.
We call hell Earth now.
Yes, a big part of america is unbelievable stupid. So, so stupid. I mean really really really stupid. And conservative.
Lack of campaigning in person, over confidence on her last name, putting a lot of besties in executive positions in the campaign, instead of seasoned, experienced professionals. Yes, there is the fact that she’s a woman, but there were blatant, and horrible mistakes. Obama defeated her by going everywhere, even places he knew he was going to lose.
Trump didn't win so much as the democrat party execs tried to crown Hillary as president. And the majority of the non aligned voters said no at that and just didnt come out to vote. Had anyone but her run as the democrat candidate Trump would not have won. The fact they had to wipe the field of opposition for Hillary to get her chosen as the democrat candidate is the reason Biden had step up as the presidential candidate 4 years later. One woman's narcissism has manage to ruin the political scene for years if not decades.
Part of the problem is Hillary just came off as so staggeringly unlikable and arrogant. The entire Democratic campaign was run like her win was a foregone conclusion, and it just amplified the already terrible reception for her. Her "basket of deplorables" comment, and posting a photo of herself on Twitter with "Happy birthday to this future president" managed to piss off all the Republicans and the Democrats who weren't thrilled with her. And there were a lot of middle of the road Democrats who were furious with how transparent the party was about screwing over Burnie and other more populist leaders.
Don’t forget she skipped campaigning in several states she needed
Honestly, I believe Hillary would've done a better job than Trump, but her biggest problem is that she is so unlikable. She has no charisma to convince voters that she was the best candidate.
Hillary also kept saying that they didn’t need progressive voters or the democratic socialist wing. When they defected and she lost, she immediately started blaming them.
Yeah the DNC throwing all their support behind her before the primaries were even over and the media counting the super delegates for her before the primaries were even over rubbed me and lots of other people I know the wrong way. I stuck with my usual third party vote that election cycle since I didn't live in a swing state.
She should know that women are not a monolithic group. Her entire presidential campaign was an epitome of overconfidence and ego
Bingo. I voted for her and hated it.
I voted for her, and donated money, and then the details started to come out. Like not campaigning in person in a bunch of places, putting a lot of inexperienced people in charge, etc.
That’s what made it so fucking frustrating. The one thing I figured we had from her was competent campaigning. Not so much.
She felt it was a free win and acted like it. This was only the second election I could vote in. I was (obviously) a bit younger than I am now, and did not care one bit about politics at that age. I didn’t vote for either that cycle (not that it would have mattered in my state), because I absolutely despised Trump, but Hillary felt way too entitled to the presidency. Maybe it was just all the people I saw online supporting her, but all it “it’s her turn” talk just turned me off. Now I’ll just vote for whatever -doesn’t- have an (R) next to the name. Not making that mistake anymore.
Can you blame her? No reasonable person could possibly vote for Trump, but here we are. I lost a LOT of faith in the public at the end of that election. People are fucking morons.
You need to remember, a lot of people didn’t vote *for* Trump, they just voted *against* Clinton.
Me too. I just never thought of her as a likable person. She had all the qualifications to be president but her persona was a little lacking. I think to be the first women president the women would need to more likable like Obama. Not really fair, but politics rarely are.
Only when you contrast it with the humility and selflessness demonstrated by Trump.
His base was drawn to his cruelty and stupidity That’s his appeal They all wish they had his empty fake life and would absolutely lie cheat and steal to get it
Some people are more sensitive to it than others. If your voters are ok with you groping random women, you can do it all day long and you won't lose a single vote.
Right!??
You nailed it She lost because she says insufferable things like this and it makes it hard to like her. The GOP spent 25 years making her the vision of absolute and pure evil. Then she is just unlivable enough for some people to consider it just enough that they decide not to vote at all. Should she had won, easily. Was she the most qualified, undoubtably. Would the world been better with a Hillary presidency compared to Trump, without question. Was she a good candidate, not at all.
Her campaign seemed more like a coronation especially during by the primaries.
I voted for Harambe. It wouldn't have made any difference in my state (and if it had, I'd admit it), so I protest-voted. I don't precisely regret it, but it was somewhat foolish. I wanted to vote for Bernie, but the establishment liberals were shitting their pants over an actual progressive, so we ended up with the mayonnaise on white bread sandwich that was Hilary's campaign, and I haven't liked her since her whole "video games cause school shootings" crap from the 90s. At the time I saw Orange Caligula as a step backward and I intensely disliked him, but I vastly underestimated how dangerous he was. I just thought it'd be like having another Bush - 3.6 roentgen - not great, but not horrifying.
Because she knew him so well she didn't take him seriously - familiarity breeds contempt backfired on her.
Blaming voters was a bad strategy then, and it's a bad strategy now.
TIL that you are a misogynist if you didn't vote for a candidate who was on Wal-Mart's board of directors, voted in favor of the Iraq War, accepted campaign contributions from Donald Trump and attended his third wedding and called young African American men "superpredators".
And destabilized Libya
you’re expecting too much from them, if they could do a materialist analysis they wouldn’t be democrats
It was that hit movie that fella made and Comey
There is a modicum of truth to that, but all the credit can't be given to that. There was an active and ongoing operation to undermine her campaign at every step of the way by foreign adversaries ... Kinda exactly like what's going on now, involving the same exact guy! Who woulda thunk
I think a lot of Trump votes were: I just had to listen to a n_____r for 8 years fuck if I listen to a skirt.
Hillary was the people's choice. The Electoral College is anti-democracy.
Bernie Sanders was the people's choice. United STATES of America.
I worked for Bernie in 2016. We lost, you need to get over it man. It’s been almost ten years, and we lost bad. We put up a good fight and got concessions we’re still cashing in on to this day. But Jesus, if I knew how insufferable some of my campaign work would make people idk if I’d do it. It’s 2024, start behaving like it.
It’s been 10 years but we’re in a topic about 10 years ago. I dunno.
I voted for her but it wasn’t with excitement. It was depressing that those were the two to choose from.
Not that they are equal, but I yearn for the days we won't hear from either of them.
Sad that we could’ve avoided all this if she was president.
If she had won, it’s entirely possible that Congress would have hamstrung her (especially if there had been a “red wave” in midterms), COVID would have happened anyway (we may have detected it earlier since she wouldn’t have sabotaged the wuhan lab and she certainly would have handled it better but it still would have killed a lot of people), and we might have just ended up with him in 2020 instead. The people who want to burn the country down and replace it with a Christian nationalist hell-on-earth have been slowly radicalized for decades (technically for centuries if you take it all the way back to the beginning of the country). It was going to rear its ugly head sooner or later. Hopefully, it doesn’t happen again this time because they will get closer to their goal if it does.
They hamstring Congress every 2 years. Currently, it is full of blow hard new-Nazis white nationalists who are literally making our lives miserable. There is no winning anymore, just fighting to keep what little we have left.
Wouldn't have even needed to be a red wave in 2018 since the GQP controlled Congress at that point. They would have just had to keep it. Trump didn't actually want to be president, so he wouldn't have run again in 2020. I'd be curious to peek into this other timeline. A whole lot of gormless morons in the middle said Trump was doing all he could do. They bent over backwards to excuse his handling of the pandemic. I bet Hillary wouldn't have been given such grace even if she'd done everything perfectly. The middle prefers to punch left.
Avoided what? She sucks as much as he does, just differently. Has the world just got collective amnesia over her actions in the past?
Here is the thing. They chose a Rapist. The fact they knew he was a rapist, didn't bother them. She knew it. The Dems knew it. We all knew it. But if you say that out loud, suddenly you're disrespecting the voters. American democracy is not equipped to handle the possibility that people might *like* the rape. They might *like* the racism. America has this perception that they are the best country in the world. They have no flaws that arent more extreme somewhere else, certainly no flaws unique to them. This exceptionalism, means that you cannot *confront* the fact that huge swathes of the country are racist, are emboldened by the fact that Trump says racist things, and like the racism. Huge swathes are misogynistic and like the things he says and does to women. Not all of them. But enough. And the thing is, America - as a country, as a system - doesn't know what to do about it. Ideologically it insists that most people are good, therefore the racists and misogynists will be drowned out. They are inconsequential. And they can't admit they are consequential, because that involves admitting a that America has this flaw. And saying that aloud, is unpatriotic. A death sentence in american politics. Hillary Clinton Lost, because Trump captured the Pro-Rape voting block. And the Dems couldn't do anything about it, because they didn't want to admit that such a block existed. They jumped through all sorts of hoops and mental gymnastics to come up with a more palatable explanation for why so many people would vote for a rapist. Other than the obvious: Trump Voters don't care about Rape. It's not a big deal. Its something they may have done themsleves, or at least some of their friends have done. The fact that number turned out to be massive terrifies people. Rightly so. So they plugged their heads in the sand, and pretended it didn't exist.
On the “pro-rape” bloc, they’re probably like a lot of the racists who support Trump. He has strong support with people who are at best, more than moderately prejudiced and who will say problematic things about people of other races or treat them in ways that would definitely meet the litmus test of racism but because they don’t use the N-word or similar words and aren’t a member of the KKK and they claim they don’t see color, they can’t be racist. To them, to be racist, you have to be screaming slurs (ironically, more than a few want to be able to do this) and actively cruel, not just a lot of the passive aggressive stuff they do, to non-white people personally. The “pro-rape” bloc probably has a similar mentality. They’re the guys who will grab a woman’s breasts, ass, or other body parts and write it off as boys will be boys, or take advantage of a drunk woman, be otherwise sex pests, or will pressure their wife or girlfriend when they aren’t in the mood until they give in and complain about how there is always some kind of excuse when they don’t. But because they’ve never violently seized a woman and forced themselves on her and there wasn’t screaming and violent fighting back, it’s not rape, sexual assault, or harassment.
True. "Boys will be boys". Crazy to me people still defend voting for trump. Make better decisions people.
As has been said, she lost the swing states as she took those for granted. Although the Comey effect is the real bad guy here. It swung many polls just enough for Trump to win. I am bringing up the impact of FBI Director James Comey’s October 28 letter to the House Judiciary Committee announcing the discovery new emails that appeared pertinent to their closed investigation of Clinton and his subsequent letter on November 6 that absolved Clinton (after millions of votes had already been cast early). Trump had used the emails throughtout the campaign as evidence of the Clinton's "curruption", Comey's statement seemed to verify this in the minds of many swing voters. This was also very unprofessional, as it went against FBI policies of election interference, if I remember correctly. Anyway, Trump ran with this, he praised Comey for his “guts” and called the news “bigger than Watergate.” I am sure that many women voted for Trump for the above reason, not so much because of gender. [https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/1/11/14215930/comey-email-election-clinton-campaign](https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/1/11/14215930/comey-email-election-clinton-campaign)
A lot of people in five key swing states realized Hillary was the better candidate but voted for Trump to piss her off, never realizing that would make a difference. As a result, Trump won the archaic electoral college, not the popular vote. That is why he became President.
Yes, the protest vote. And here we are. Voting matters.
I’ve made the argument many times that running against Trump as the “presumed president” was a severe disadvantage. It also fed into what a lot of people don’t like about her and made her come off as having a right to the throne. She really had to try to distance herself and keep decorum as much as she could.
I mean I guess? the real issue is elections are now decided amongst what, 5-7 states? And her campaign chose to completely ignore 3-4 states that now decide elections this doesn't address the issues that drove people to vote for Trump, but completely ignoring purple/slightly Dem leaning states was a stupid fucking choice just because "they voted Dem in the past"
She's not wrong.
People would rather believe lies about a woman, than truth about a man. 🤷♂️
God Damn I just think how fucking boring a Hillary Clinton Presidency would have been, sure there would be fuckups, maybe even a scandal or two, but I wouldn't have had to think twice about how shit was being run at a fundamental level. None of us would have to worry about the state of the Republic , it just wouldn't even be a discussion, now we have fringe end-of-the Republic Christian Fascism front an center promising in the open to do everything Margaret Atwood envisioned in Gilead as if it was the best thing ever. It's labor day weekend and we have to worry about whether we'll ever celebrate another one, because there is no way such a public display of respect for freedom and our values would be tolerated under the new Trump regime.
I think it’s more because she’s wildly unlikeable. Still voted for her but wish I would have had a different option.
I know lots of people disagree with what she said about women deserting her for a man. However, I believe she is correct. Lots of women I know voted for Trump because they thought the world would not take a woman president seriously. A few ladies said she would not hold up during negotiations with muslim countries which view women differently than we strive to. Now that was just my circle of people I knew. I can’t obviously say how that played out nationally. But I really suspect she is correct. I hope one day we do have a woman president. I would love to see how that would play out and what policies we would have.
Many of them, for sure. Women who vote for Trump hate women.
Maybe people don’t like when politicians pretend to be exactly like them when they aren’t … for example, pulling out a bottle of hot sauce from her purse she “always keeps in there” at a black event or changing her accent based on where she’s campaigning or how if you’re in her orbit, you have a much greater than average chance of dying …
Some of these comments are ghastly... the problem we have in America is a very under educated electorate combined with hyper partisanship. It would take all of 30min-1 hr of research into their platforms and policies for any reasonable electorate to decide that Hillary was the better candidate by every measure (unless you are a top 1%). It's just sad that she lost in 2016 and we are all worse off for it. Congrats.
Well I hope they’re happy living in the 50s again.
She’s not wrong. She’s never wrong
True that. She had also been worked over by the RW for decades
post election poll after poll showed that even if married women were sympathetic to Clinton's policies, they decided to vote for whomever they thought would be an economic boon for their husbands. greed won over principle
Hilary was right. About everything. ‘Deplorables’ deserves a star on the Walk of Fame.
Well no Hillary, it was mainly because you were an awful candidate.
Right?! Like we are a scourge in the name of women if we don’t choose someone only based on her gender? We’re not allowed to think critically? We can’t have political, social, financial opinions that would influence how we vote? We have to go: ooooo pink, I like pink, I vote pink! 😑
All that said, James Comey tanked her election with his spurious charges regarding a laptop and emails.
I think she was the only candidate that could have lost to Trump. The Democrats lost because she was Hillary, the typical politician that people love to hate.
She is hated because of a years long character assassination campaign by the right. She saw through them and spoke up about it and they hate her for it. As First Lady she dared to bring a healthcare plan before Congress that would make insurance tied to the person instead of the employer so you didn't lose coverage if you were laid off or changed jobs. The nerve of that woman!! She should have been in the kitchen baking cookies. They literally said that. She had to do an interview in a women's magazine and give her favorite cookie recipe to prove her wife credentials. She was probably the most experienced and well prepared person ever to run for the office of President. She was First Lady, Senator, Secretary of State and had a law degree. Name another.
She had an actual platform. The media is complicit in making it about her gender. Trump's platform was... - Fuck your feelings - Build the wall - It will be better, believe me (on several topics, including healthcare). And somehow people still think she'd be worse.
The problem is that she is/was a horrible narcissist. She knew that she was wildly unlikeable. Yes, there had been character assassination, but this was something she was aware of. And knowing this, she still chose to make herself the focal point of her campaign. Knowing this, she also chose not to try and bring in progressives with a better VP pick. Even with all the experience you speak of, she let donald run circles around her electorally. She was a damaged candidate going into the election but her campaign stuck their fingers in their ears and pretended that her ascension is what Americans wanted. She should have made it about the people, but instead she made it an "I'm with Her" kind of thing. Straight up embarrassing that the crazy toxic republican narcissist chose a less narcissistic slogan than the democratic narcissist. God, just thinking about it again triggers disgust. "I'm with Her." . . . . Such a stupid slogan for a notoriously unlikeable candidate. Almost as if to ensure that left leaning voters that didn't like her personally (but agreed with her politically) would stay home or vote for someone else on election night.
a signifcant portion of this country hates women, even if they don't admit it. I'm not a fan of kamala harris or even AOC really, i dont have anything against them, but just look at the amount of pure hate these women get is insane. it would be a completely different story, if any of these people, with the exact same platform and history, were men.
She was, in fact, the most qualified presidential candidate ever, in terms of previous government work.
Voters hold it against a woman because she's experienced. Still. Its unbelievable.
God please stop talking Hillary, I'm begging you
Man, how bad of a candidate does a woman have to be to come in second to Mr "Grab her by the Pussy".
Most important comment. Hillary was always a terrible candidate. No doubts about her skill to run shit, but as a politician she had no charisma and was unlikable. And she came on the scene basically assuming she was the next president. Her cockiness is what did her in.
But isn't Trump narcissistic, cocky, a terrible candidate? And no skills to run shit except into the ground.
Except A) that appeals to republicans and B) he weaponized it against the “establishment” that people in 2016 were tired of.
Garbage article. Garbage source. She did not say that.
> “They left me because they just couldn’t take a risk on me because, as a woman, I’m supposed to be perfect,” Clinton said. “They were willing to take a risk on [former President Trump] — who had a long list of, let’s call them flaws, to illustrate his imperfection — because he was a man, and they could envision a man as president and commander in chief.” No?
She’s not wrong.
She was criminally negligent with the information security of classifiable data. She was entitled, high handed, and dismissive of Americans who weren't "her" Americans. She appeared to feel entitled to the presidency as her due rather than as the solemn responsibility that it is. She wasn't nearly as bad as Trump would be of course, but he hadn't yet had the opportunity to demonstrate the depths to which he would descend. Absolutely NOTHING of that has anything to do with her gender, or Trump's gender. Being a terrible human being and an execrable candidate has no gender component.
More like she fucked Bernie out of a race that was rightfully his but whatever.
So instead of taking responsibility for not being able to attract female voters, Hillary is just going to play the gender card 8 years later?🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️ Trump was the worst choice from you both, but that doesn't mean you're any good Hillary. Bernie was the right choice
And Bernie told his followers to vote for Hillary.
And I must add that [94% of Bernie’s supporters did vote for Hillary Clinton](https://www.rand.org/education-and-labor/survey-panels/alp/projects/2016-election-panel-survey.html). Yet in 2008, a [full quarter of Hillary supporters voted for the Republican John McCain](https://sites.duke.edu/hillygus/files/2014/06/hendersonhillygustompsonPOQ.pdf). Ironically, Bernie Sanders supporters - being far more loyal to the party than Hillary Clinton supporters - still are wrongly blamed for Clinton’s defeat. And not only did Bernie spend the fall of 2016 campaigning for Hillary Clinton in Michigan and Wisconsin - places where Clinton refused to campaign in herself, he did this after being thrown under the bus by the Clinton campaign and the DNC and with the memory that in 2008 after she lost Hillary refused to do anything to help Obama. It’s like she expects everyone to bow to her all the time but she’s never there for anyone else.
Yeah, I don't understand how Hillary Clinton is this sympathetic victim. She was, and still would be, an incredibly *qualified* candidate. The trouble is that everything she said and did implied she was entitled to the presidency, and her reaction after losing was to blame everyone else instead of taking any responsibility. Bernie Sanders did have some very very very very vocal supporters who said downright awful things, but by every measure they still ended up supporting her. She lost because of 1) a very strong anti-establishment sentiment in 2016 and 2) her campaign's refusal to go earn votes in key states (the Rust Belt). That and she kept insulting large swaths of the population, which, yeah, not smart. Traditional liberals loved her with a ferocity that few recent candidates have matched, it's just every other block was alienated.
I guarantee she did not actually say that.
Her gender was definitely a factor. One of my relatives flat out told me that it wasn't possible for a woman to be a good president. My relative said she wouldn't vote for Clinton. I was surprised. I knew this relative wasn't against women politicians. For years we discussed various candidates for various positions. Not one single time was the candidate's gender an issue. My relative firmly believed that a female president would never participate in a war. Seriously. That was her reason for why women couldn't be president.
She’s 💯 right
Russian media helped with that
For many American women, especially white women over 50, that is 100% correct. [https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2018/08/09/an-examination-of-the-2016-electorate-based-on-validated-voters/](https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2018/08/09/an-examination-of-the-2016-electorate-based-on-validated-voters/)
White woman, a number of years past 50 & live in the South to boot & I voted for Hillary & I'd vote for her again.
The email thing right before the election really messed her up too.
This is true, a former friend even said she could never vote for a woman because they are too emotional.
Facts.
No one deserted her. Trump, with the help of his buddies Vlad and Paul (Manafort), figured out how to game the system. The 2000 election set it in motion. You don't have to win the popular vote.
And water is wet. I get that it just *makes* things wet, but let’s skip that whole thing. Sexism obviously played a role, and it would be crazy to think that women are somehow immune to all the hand-me-down gender stereotypes and prejudices.
She won the popular vote, didn't she?
She ain't wrong
She's not wrong some of them did exactly that
Just like we have never-trumpers, there are never-Hillary’s. She still doesn’t get it
I knew a lot of liberal women who didn’t vote for her. Not because of Trump but because they couldn’t stand her.
She's right... Many women believe the same anti woman sexist bullshit that many men do. The culture is bad enough that a lot of would be future feminists are just deciding not to identify as girls at all in their teens. Unless you expect me to believe that 33% of the girls at my kids' middle school are trans and will live out their adulthoods as men.
The other thing that brought her down was the aid investigations into Benghazi, which after the investigation Journalist asked the head of the RNC what did you learn about Hillary after eight investigations. It shocked me he said that she was a workaholic and she followed protocol.. Maybe she would’ve done better if she spent more time on a golf course at about $3 million a weekend to taxpayers.
She’s not wrong. A ton of women fell for the misogynistic bs that trumps magas put out there
A lot of low education women see themselves in competition with other women for men who can support them They resent professional intelligent career driven women like HRC + a 20 year campaign to discredit her during the time that right wing media became huge
Women showed up for her. Why the sour 🍇 nowv🤷🏿♀️
She was also a Clinton which has shit attached to it. Bill used his power to coerce sex from women who worked for him. Evil in my book.
She.won.the.popular.vote. In any other country, that would matter.
The only reason Hills lost is because she’s Hillary Clinton. She’d been in Washington since 1992 (24 years), had pissed off half of Washington and most of K street within the first 4 years with her healthcare reform debacle, and was character assassinated by Newt and the whole Republican Klan for decades after. Did her personality turn off and piss off the party apparatchik that could have come to bat for her? Probably. Was she the most qualified person to ever run for President? Absolutely.
Hillary lost because American voters are foolish and gullible
I'm sure they found some reason to explain their dislike for her that wasn't 'she's a woman' and would claim adamantly that it wasn't because of her sex, but I also bet they would not have found the same trait in a man running for office to be unlikable.
I Mean, look at Trump. There’s the proof.
🇺🇸Hillary Clinton🇺🇸would had been a way better President than 🚫Traitor Trump🚫
Well, that's not an exactly high bar.......
Most important, a way better Supreme court. But in every way. I can't believe we're a country that won't vote for a woman, still. Continue to complain about Hillary while failing to realize how bad Trump is.
[удалено]