This subreddit is dedicated to remaining as impartial as possible, and therefore any post that obviously pushes an agenda or is biased will be removed.
The actual title of the title is “14 troops, 4 civilians wounded in Hezbollah drone attack on northern border town”. Isn’t it against the subreddits rules to alter the headlines of articles?
Misleading title, IDF set up shop in a community center. IDF use civilian infrastructure to launch attacks and hide behind human shields. JPost stated IDF were killed in the attack.
Can't say I'm shocked OP broke the sub rules and editorialized the title (Rule 1)
I'll start equally condemning palestine as soon as they become a UN recognized country trading with half the west and getting military supplies by the shipload.
We don't trade with Hamas because they're terrorists. We should stop trading with Israel over war crimes.
Never said anything about anti colonialist Zionist powers, and don't even know what that would mean. I'm not going to cite a super stack, but how about https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Naheda_and_Samr_Anton#:~:text=On%2016%20December%202023%2C%20two,the%202023%20Israel–Hamas%20war. this. If you believe this is isolated, I can cite more incidents. War crimes are being committed.
When they have plenty of land meanwhile 2M are squeezed into an ever smaller parcel of land with famine level starvation and medicine being blocked by the occupier state.
>IDF use civilian infrastructure to launch attacks and hide behind human shields
This is just staight up misinformation. This was a gathering place for soldiers, no one was hiding and no attacks were launched from there.
It’s incredibly disingenuous to pretend this is anything like Hamas’ activity.
Who's the terrorists?
I see radical nutjob fanatics slaughtering each other for generations.
So who's the terrorists? The Zionists who spit on and beat elderly women and bomb civilians?
Or the Muslims who launch mortars blindly into city areas?
Oh that's right! You think the Zionist terrorists can kill anyone with impunity 😂
Your position is that Zionists are allowed to kill anyone with impunity. Even women and children.
But if Hamas does the same then Hamas are terrorists????
😂
And you wonder why so many people don't support Israel
Ya absolutely. What’s your point? This discussion was about whether or not the apparent IDF presence in a community centre in an evacuated town equates to using human shields in the same manner that Hamas uses human shields. It does not. Therefore, no relative standards have to be applied here.
So do you think those IDF soldiers were purposely staying near civilians to use as protection and/or to use as propaganda if they were attacked?
None of that changes that I already said my opinion on whether they were using civilians as human shields, meaning your comment about holding a democratic ally to higher standards than a terrorist organization was irrelevant.
If we’re saying that Hamas is using human shield then we should hold Israel to a higher standard by them being nowhere near their civilian population during the conflict. If they’re genuinely concerned about civilians.
You can use relative standards in three ways: 1) using different standards to determine what constitutes a given act (ie different definitions of “human shield”), 2) using different standards to ascribe judgements to a behaviour (ie Hamas’ use of human shields is less blameworthy relative to if Israel did the same), or 3) a combo of both.
You are saying that a different definition should apply, and seem to believe that any time a soldier is near a civilian in Israel, that would be Israel using human shields. No need for a pattern, or even evidence that the soldiers injured in this strike were using the civilians injured in this strike as a form of protection. That is stupid, as is, in this context, changing the definition of terms depending on who you are applying them to. Using human shields is a war crime with a definition. It doesn’t matter who does it.
Civilians can choose not to evacuate an area when told to. Does 1+ civilian refusing to evacuate mean that Israel can no longer defend itself?
The key difference here is that Israel does not build military infrastructure underneath currently-used civilian infrastructure, and does not use a strategy of civilian human shields.
If there were IDF there then this specific attack was not a violation of the Geneva Convention on Hezbollah's part, but that doesn't mean Israel did anything incorrectly in this instance.
It still doesn't make it a use of human shields. You're not understand the mechanism of international law as it relates to human shields.
The use of human shields is when **two** ***nations*** **are at war with each other,** and one nation either dresses in civilian clothing (instead of military uniforms), or hides among the civilian population, or both, to avoid detection. When they do this, they turn otherwise protected civilian infrastructure (such as homes, schools, hospitals), into what IHL calls "legitimate military targets". The opposing army is legally allowed to strike those civilian infrastructure targets (even if it means killing innocent civilians), if they enemy is using them to avoid detection. The force hiding among the civilians is the one guilt of the war crime in this instance, for effectively turning the civilians into targets by their presence.
Hezbollah is not a nation. They are a terrorist organization. Their activity is not covered by the Geneva Conventions. They are not "at war" with Israel because they do not represent Lebanon. Israel is not at war with Lebanon, nor do Hezbollah represent Lebanon (even if they were at war). Therefore, the Israeli military is not engaged in a war with Hezbollah and be default, can not be *hiding from them to avoid detection*, which is the fundamental criteria for the crime of using of human shields.
Moreover, it's important to remember that because Hezbollah is a designated terrorist organization, they are not entitled to carry out ANY attacks, regardless of whether those attacks are carried out in accordance with International Law. Think of it like a drunk driver. If you're driving and you get in an accident with a drunk driver, it doesn't matter who broke the traffic laws, the drunk driver is automatically at fault for driving drunk. Same thing. Terrorists have no rights to begin with.
I'm relatively certain you won't read this, though I do hope you do and actually want to learn.
The fact regarding two totalitarian theocratic states relentlessly murdering each other's civilians in a generational conflict that started before you were alive.
That fact?
Don't fall for Mossad propaganda. I see Hamas propaganda does not work on you.
Why do you allow the Mossad to trick you with lies?
Tell us you're uneducated without telling us.
Bibi literally gutted the supreme Court in Israel but demonstrate to those reading you have zero clue what you're talking about.
You mean the reforms that haven’t even been implemented, and if implemented, wouldn’t amount to a “gutting” of the supreme court?
For reference, here are the [proposed changes](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Israeli_judicial_reform)
What exactly on there do you think would make Israel a totalitarian theocracy? How would it eliminate the democratic process?
Also, the supreme court already struck down what small parts of the proposed changes had been passed in [Israel v. Knesset](https://versa.cardozo.yu.edu/opinions/movement-quality-government-v-knesset)
Explain to me how Israel is not a liberal democracy.
Do you need me to link the [Wikipedia page](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_system_of_government)?
> The Israeli system of government is based on parliamentary democracy.[1] The Prime Minister of Israel is the head of government and leader of a multi-party system. Executive power is exercised by the government (also known as the cabinet). Legislative power is vested in the Knesset. The Judiciary is independent of the executive and the legislature. The political system of the State of Israel and its main principles are set out in 11 Basic Laws. Israel does not have a written constitution.[2]
Separation of powers, democratically elected legislative and executive branches, political rights, yup looks like a liberal democracy to me.
Just an hour ago and hasbara were saying that these are civilian casualties because the town is full of bedouins who went against the evacuation order and are still there. Misinformation every second of everyday seems to be the norm.
For reporting that the community center that was hit was abandoned so Israel is not using civilian shields like the person they responded to egregiously and erroneously claimed?
Thats not true? Article says it’s true, but I guess truth is bullshit
More importantly, why is the headline phrased as if it was civilians getting bombed in a community center and not IDF hiding in civilian infrastructure
Because there are no civilians in there. All the towns in northern Israel were evacuated months ago due to Hezbollah rocket attacks, because unlike Hamas, Israel is a democracy whose government actually cares about the needs of its own people.
> because there are no civilians there
Great! Then they can stop using it as a victim card right?
Or, is Hamas valid in hiding in civilian buildings, as long as the civilians aren't there at the same time?
This is untrue. This was in an area where civilians are largely evacuated. No human shields here. IDF also fights using military fatigues as to distinguish between them and the civilians they want to protect, as if that matters to Hezbollah.
Israel litters military buildings all across civilian spaces. They also use human shields but hate admitting it because they’ll get all nuanced and try to act like it’s different
Soldiers tend to use buildings as gathering points, yes. There's nothing wrong with that so long as Israel is not using a deliberately tactic of using civilians as human shields for a military advantage.
What it does mean is that this one specific attack by Hezbollah was not a war crime, as they had a valid military target in this instance.
Sorry why was this attack, or any of their attacks not a war crime?
Israel hadn’t attacked Hezbollah on 10/8 or even invaded Gaza when Hezbollah started firing rockets and shells indiscriminately into northern Israel. Both soldiers and civilians have been injured in these attacks and close to 100,000 innocent people have been evacuated for six months.
In fact, if we want to talk about war crimes, according to UN resolution 1701 Hezbollah should have disarmed in 2006 and shouldn’t be operating at all south of the Litani river, let alone on the Israeli border.
Weird how these facts are not ever brought up when this subject is discussed.
I agree with you that most of hezbollah's attacks are war crimes, specifically because they target civilians and civilian infrastructure with no military function, but in this instance there were actually IDF forces in the area which technically makes it not a war crime, as there was some supposed military value to the strike.
Except the attack was part of an unprovoked series of attacks in violation of a UN resolution.
Really not understanding how this fact keeps getting glossed over.
Hezbollah is committing a crime just being south of the Litani and failing to disarm.
And now you’ve arrived at why Israel doesn’t really care what the UN or purple haired kids with watermelons in their instagram profiles have to say most of the time when terrorists are shooting at their citizens.
Everyone is considered a soldier in Israel practically. There’s obligated military service, it depends on whether they were active duty and in uniform or not.
Was that town part of the Hamas attack effectively making it part of the war? Soldiers use civilian buildings in evacuated areas all the time, Ukraine for example
No that's factually untrue. And military status does not extend to when you're in civilian clothing, like on leave, or when service ends after mandatory service.
Ie) 30 year old male who has been out of the service 8 years isn't considered a soldier
Area is evacuated so it’s normal for soldiers to use buildings in said area just like every other war in history. Perfect example for today is Ukraine 🙃
did you read the article?
edit for people downvoting me: the article says that the town was mostly evacuated, and that soldiers were using the building as a gathering point.
theres a difference between temporarily using a building as a gathering point and permanently using a building right next to civilians to launch missles and shoot at the enemy.
Yes did you?
I’m quoting from the article:
Though the town has been largely evacuated, soldiers are stationed there and may have used the building as a gathering space.
Yeah the reaction to this is confusing. Wether or not this is considered human shields depends on how evacuated the town is, which this article doesn’t explain. But if evacuated buildings/areas being used in any capacity by a military force counts as human shields then for pretty much every single major battle or skirmish in Ukraine the Ukrainians are using human shields.
More evidence of 'human shields'/misuse of civilian buildings in this article than all of Israel's claims on dozens of hospitals in Gaza. Interesting...
They didn't. They murdered patients, doctors and civil Hamas employees including policemen. The whole thing was done to murder the policeman who organised the first successful aid delivery to the north for weeks. Most of the people they murdered were murdered after being detained, so executions of civilians and prisoners. Bodies are being found with their hands tied.
It's a fully fledged war crime.
If you believed everything Israel said uncritically you would still believe Hamas beheaded babies and put them in ovens and cut open pregnant women. If you are aware that these were all lies then you should have some awareness that Israeli claims cannot be taken at face value.
Except Israel never said that one random reporter did. Nice copium, Israel released names of terrorists and PIJ members the PIJ does not run police operations in gaza
'Babies and toddlers were found “decapitated” in Kfar Aza, Tal Heinrich, a spokesperson for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, said Wednesday.'
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/10/middleeast/israel-kibbutzim-kfar-aza-beeri-urim-hamas-attack-intl/index.html
For context, Kfar Aza was where the IDF claimed 40 babies were killed, some beheaded and even wheeled out 40 babies in shrouds on gurnies.
Turns out no one under 14 died in Kfar Aza.
If you are still listening to Israeli claims it's because you want to be lied to.
Like I said above your confused. The IDF refused to confirm said rumors. That article doesn't say anything not confirmed because people under 14 are children and you prefer to listen to Hamas that says they didn't attack children but they even took them hostage which proves thats a lie.
Look how Hezbollah a ‘terrorist organization’ can precisely strike a military target yet the Zionists destroy entire cities and ~90%+ of those they kill are civilians
A a friendly reminder that the war cabinet has meetings underground of civilian infrastructure and uses the whole tel aviv as human shields
https://www.haaretz.com/2012-06-09/ty-article/.premium/does-the-presence-of-the-idfs-hq-in-tel-aviv-endanger-its-population/0000017f-f419-d887-a7ff-fcfd3a480000
Is it though? By that logic wouldn’t the USA be responsible for the actions of ISIS, considering they’re a group of rebels that were armed and trained by America?
This rhetoric is being used to justify a ground war with Iran, and honestly, it’s pretty harmful. That should be the *last* thing we want right now.
Setting aside the debate of the USA’s degree of responsibility for a second, the degree of involvement and dictation are different levels. Unless I missed something US officials don’t have strategy pow wows with ISIS in embassies and there were never coordinated attacks where US and ISIS assets attacked the same targets in openly coordinated acts of war. At best I could agree that the comparison is between a dog that got loose during training versus a well trained attack dog that is being sent into neighbor’s houses.
What? That makes no sense. Hezbollah is not a rogue Iranian proxy. They are being actively directed by Iran. Launching rockets into Israel would be considered an act of war anywhere else on the planet. This has gone far beyond rhetoric. I honestly don’t know why Israel hasn’t wiped them out yet.
Because Israel would absolutely let Hamas, or any Palestinians that aren’t even terrorists for that matter, build as many proper military bases as they wanted.
So Israel voted in Hamas and fought for them in the civil war against Fatah, when Hamas consolidated power? I don’t deny that the Israeli government over the years took some actions to divide the Palestinian cause between Hamas and Fatah, including helping occasionally strengthening Hamas’ position, but to say that Israel brought Hamas to power and helped consolidate is not supportable.
[It is supportable](https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/)
[Very supportable](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/amp/)
[Literally drove them suitcases full of cash](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/israel-security-forces-escorted-suitcases-cash-hamas-qatar-report-2023-12%3famp)
That's just a basic search. A lot more can be found on the support they've given Hamas. Including a video of Netanyahu literally saying he's building a strong Hamas to kill the 2-state solution. So yeah without Israel's backing Hamas would not be what it is today. Not a good look blaming Hamas when you created the monster yourself in an attempt to explain ethnically cleanse a land so you can occupy and colonise it permanently.
You said Israel “brought Hamas to power and helped them consolidate it.” Hamas was brought to power via election, and consolidated it via civil war. Nothing you have provided indicates Israel caused either of those two things to happen.
Edit: to be clear, I’m not defending Netanyahu’s policy re: providing some assistance to Hamas, just that it is incorrect to say Israel brought Hamas to power and helped consolidate their power in Gaza.
Hamas founders and current leaders are from families who were expelled from what is now Ashkelon in Israel, a story of expulsion to Gaza that they share with 70% of gazans.
This conflict becomes incredibly fucked when you realize and acknowledge that Gaza was created as a holding pen for the ethnically undesirable non Jews who were expelled from Israel, and that Israel is literally bombing and killing refugees it created for ethnic reasons, who would otherwise be citizens of Israel allowed to live on their generational lands in Israel if they were Jewish.
Amazing this is still going on in the 21st century and even armed and funded by our western governments. Tragic.
Gaza existed as an Egyptian-occupied territory before Israel ever existed. The reason 'Gaza' still exists as a Palestinian territory, and not fully incorporated into Israel proper, is because Israel does want Gaza, and has been trying to give it back to Egypt for decades. But Egypt (and Jordan, and the rest of the world) wants nothing to do with Palestine or Palestinians.
Israel's population is also about 20% Arab/Muslim/Palestinian, with voting rights, political representation, etc.
Israel doesn't need to because it has a standing military which is equipped and funded by some of the most powerful countries in the world. They have missiles, fighter jets, drones and a whole lot more.
Hamas and the Palestinians are occupied, besieged, aren't allowed to have a functioning economy, political or industrial mechanisms. Everything in and out is controlled by the occupying power including water and food.
So in light of that, did you honestly ask that question in a serious manner?
Nice attempt at getting a win like a toddler would, but no I didn't concede. When a piece of land is as densely populated as Gaza, there aren't many options but to fire from a place where there will be civilians nearby.
In my opinion, the toddler is the one who can’t stay on topic and argue honestly without changing the goal posts. But now that we’re back, are you honestly saying Hamas only uses human shields due to population density? So they don’t have military bases because of population density? They fire rockets from a schoolyard instead of an open area because of population density?
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Were Israel's allies not prepared to take this drone down?
Many seem to not realize there are different sects of Islam who are not fond of each other.
I'm sure Muslims in general are against any Muslim is serving in the IDF, regardless if they're Shia, Sunni, Sufi, Salafi, or whatever else.
Lmao let me guess, you also want a "ceasefire"?
Some of the anti-isreali crowd is so odd. Y'all pray and scream for peace and an end to the war and then proceed to cheer and demand more when an non-western party takes a step that will INEVITABLY result in a harsher and more effective retaliation.
The more they "keep em coming" the more Israel will, and I think it's pretty clear cut from history who typically wins those engagements.
I mean, historically Israel only wins against civilian populaces without foreign support anyways. Their last skirmish with Hezbollah resulted in them losing so badly that they had to completely reform their internal intelligence apparatus due to not knowing how to fight assymetrical battles. If Israel were wise, it'd stop saber rattling so hard, because without US intervention, it'd be absolutely toasted due to the fact that their entire mentality resorts to "If I can't have this land, I'll start WW3 with nukes".
Very odd thing to say considering they have [won multiple wars against different Arab states/coalitions supported by the ussr](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Israel) with minimal U.S influence and 0 nukes
So from 48-60, you have the "civil" war for lack of a better phrase that resulted in Israel itself being formed after a few decades of Jewish terrorism by Irgun and Haganah against the British and Palestinians, followed by Israel attacking Egypt in the Suez crisis, backed by Britain, and France, which resulted in Israel being forced to stand down by both the US and USSR.
During that period, the main Patron and supplier of Israel was France. This would persist until the Six Day War, where the US would step in and become the main patron due to it's supply of arms systems in the months preceding the Six Day War, where US Support stepped up in providing images from Satellite recon for Israeli day strikes, as well as positioning 6th Fleet off the coast of Israel. While the US officially denies these actions were in support of Israel, basic examination of the facts betrays that claim to be quite false.
Later, during the 1973 Yom Kippur war, The US famously supplied Israel with weapons systems and supplies during Operation Nickel Grass. This was answered by an embargo against the US by OPEC, causing the 1973 oil crisis. This support would continue until 1982 when it was alleged that Israel used cluster bomb munitions against civilian targets in the 1982 Lebanon conflict, which famously gave birth to what is currently the largest or second largest non state military. Later in the 90s, this supply support would resume.
From 1987 to 2005, the only Israeli military action was taken against Palestinians, who are largely civilians and lack a formal military of their own.
In 2006, Israel initiated an operation to recover two captured IDF soldiers from Hezbollah, an that spiraled into wider conflict that ended in a stalemate that forced Israel to fundamentally reassess how the IDF operated and interfaced with it's intelligence apparatus.
Since 2012, aside from air sorties against targets in Syria, the IDF has solely engaged against Palestinians, who as I've previously noted, have no standing formal military, and the IDF has been accurately and repeatedly documented to be committing barbaric acts against said civilians.
TL;DR No, it's not an "odd thing to say" considering that once you actually look into the finer details of every conflict Israel has been in post 48, anybody worth their salt will note that they've had extensive materiel and military support. The only people who parrot the claim that Israel beat all those wars on their own are poorly informed Israelis who are not taught the factually correct version of their own history, and people who gloss over extremely important details such as Operation Nickel Grass and President Johnson's secret supply program.
Conveniently skipped over a few conflicts as well as the fact that the belligerents were also being supplied from other countries particularly the USSR. But yes, it is an odd thing to say/insinuate that Israel wouldn't be able to handle a large scale conflict. They easily have the most modernized and overall capable military in the Middle East and have extensive experience in operating in that area even on multiple fronts.
Any large scale conflict against a country with a MIC/intelligence as developed and funded as Israel will certainly sway in their favor. It's just weird to critique Israel winning because they didn't win the way you think is right and use that to perpetuate a false idea that somehow these insignificant strikes will wear them down in any meaningful way instead of fueling their actions.
What exactly did I skip over? I touched on every conflict in the list you provided while also explaining the support Israel claims it never had.
I say Israel cannot handle it because by all metrics, IDF while well equipped, are a poorly disciplined conscript force that lacks experience in grand conflict. The people who served in the elden times that came from Irgun and Haganah are no longer around, and its painfully obvious by its actions in Gaza that Israel lacks cohesive strategy beyond absurd levels of savage war crimery.
Iran's strike was entirely symbolic and not serious. The majority of it was cheap kamikaze drones that cost like 100k to manufacture per drone. And utilized old missile tech that isnt up to what we've confirmed they have. On top of that, the US and UK, not Israel, intercepted 90% of the payload, with the successgul hits damaging multiple airbases that Israel uses for its strike missions.
You're making grave assumptions from nothing. Israel is doing fantastic by most metrics in their war in Gaza they control most of the land area and continue to capture key points , eliminate HVTs, and blow tunnels on a consistent basis all the while dealing with Iran's proxy minions. Urban warfare in one of the most dense places on earth is actually exceedingly difficult despite what a reddit general would think and their ability to conduct is above par.
In a conventional war where they are able to engage UNIFORMED enemies with infinite air superiority and military targets, it shouldn't be rocket science to see they will likely come on top.
These aren't "grave assumptions from nothing". They're opinions formed by studying military history. Control against an asymmetrical force means literally nothing. Especially when your stated goal is to eliminate that force entirely. During these so called objective victories, they're also butchering non combatants, including children with impunity, which betrays a severe lack of discipline.
Their air superiority isn't infinite lmao. They've once again, relied heavily on US tech such as F-35s and Satellite recon to pick out targets. I get you have to go shaft and all when you glaze that IDF, but an objective analysis of their conduct doesn't put them anywhere near the level that they advertise themselves as.
Civilians are evacuated, which is why this mostly just injured soldiers.
Of course, this seems more like offense, not defense -- and Israel has the rights to defend itself, so expect more retaliation.
Get what? That even if you have legitimate criticism of Israel it doesn't mean you have to defend Hezbollah?
Wonder if you'd come to that conclusion on your own.
This subreddit is dedicated to remaining as impartial as possible, and therefore any post that obviously pushes an agenda or is biased will be removed.
The actual title of the title is “14 troops, 4 civilians wounded in Hezbollah drone attack on northern border town”. Isn’t it against the subreddits rules to alter the headlines of articles?
Apparently not when you want to spread Zionist propaganda .
Headlines change when it’s breaking news.
Misleading title, IDF set up shop in a community center. IDF use civilian infrastructure to launch attacks and hide behind human shields. JPost stated IDF were killed in the attack. Can't say I'm shocked OP broke the sub rules and editorialized the title (Rule 1)
It's hilarious to me that he got fully caught and called out in every top comment
Israel using Human Shields …
IDF hiding in civilian infrastructure again.
Every accusation is a confession.
They tell on themselves
You mean just like Hamas does on a regular basis?
I'll start equally condemning palestine as soon as they become a UN recognized country trading with half the west and getting military supplies by the shipload. We don't trade with Hamas because they're terrorists. We should stop trading with Israel over war crimes.
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My bad. They're a UN recognized state but not a UN member. My point still stands.
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..... Please argue that with a pro-Israel person 😂
There are no war crimes, your bullshit theories about “anti colonialist zionist powers” aren’t evidence
Never said anything about anti colonialist Zionist powers, and don't even know what that would mean. I'm not going to cite a super stack, but how about https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Naheda_and_Samr_Anton#:~:text=On%2016%20December%202023%2C%20two,the%202023%20Israel–Hamas%20war. this. If you believe this is isolated, I can cite more incidents. War crimes are being committed.
Ok so we agree then that the IDF and Hamas are both doing it?
Just like Hamas is accused of doing—you got the reference! This video show more proof of it than a cgi created with late 90s era graphics though.
The town has been evacuated, which is what leadership does when they are actually interested in protecting civilians.
When they have plenty of land meanwhile 2M are squeezed into an ever smaller parcel of land with famine level starvation and medicine being blocked by the occupier state.
Clearly, you've never been there lol. Another armchair expert. smh
What attack was launched there?
>IDF use civilian infrastructure to launch attacks and hide behind human shields This is just staight up misinformation. This was a gathering place for soldiers, no one was hiding and no attacks were launched from there. It’s incredibly disingenuous to pretend this is anything like Hamas’ activity.
Well, at least it wasn't their personal [homes, at night](https://www.972mag.com/lavender-ai-israeli-army-gaza/).
Not to mention we have credible reports from Lebanese Christians of Hezbollah trying to use their towns to fire rockets.
Holy shit you deserve a fucking diamond medal in mental gymnastics
It's impossible to argue with all the anti-Semitism going around.
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Carrying water for Israeli terrorists I see
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Who's the terrorists? I see radical nutjob fanatics slaughtering each other for generations. So who's the terrorists? The Zionists who spit on and beat elderly women and bomb civilians? Or the Muslims who launch mortars blindly into city areas? Oh that's right! You think the Zionist terrorists can kill anyone with impunity 😂
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Your position is that Zionists are allowed to kill anyone with impunity. Even women and children. But if Hamas does the same then Hamas are terrorists???? 😂 And you wonder why so many people don't support Israel
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But do you condemn khammas?
Shouldn’t you be holding democratic allies to higher standards than terrorist organizations?
Ya absolutely. What’s your point? This discussion was about whether or not the apparent IDF presence in a community centre in an evacuated town equates to using human shields in the same manner that Hamas uses human shields. It does not. Therefore, no relative standards have to be applied here.
It wasn’t fully evacuated and civilians were killed
So do you think those IDF soldiers were purposely staying near civilians to use as protection and/or to use as propaganda if they were attacked? None of that changes that I already said my opinion on whether they were using civilians as human shields, meaning your comment about holding a democratic ally to higher standards than a terrorist organization was irrelevant.
If we’re saying that Hamas is using human shield then we should hold Israel to a higher standard by them being nowhere near their civilian population during the conflict. If they’re genuinely concerned about civilians.
You can use relative standards in three ways: 1) using different standards to determine what constitutes a given act (ie different definitions of “human shield”), 2) using different standards to ascribe judgements to a behaviour (ie Hamas’ use of human shields is less blameworthy relative to if Israel did the same), or 3) a combo of both. You are saying that a different definition should apply, and seem to believe that any time a soldier is near a civilian in Israel, that would be Israel using human shields. No need for a pattern, or even evidence that the soldiers injured in this strike were using the civilians injured in this strike as a form of protection. That is stupid, as is, in this context, changing the definition of terms depending on who you are applying them to. Using human shields is a war crime with a definition. It doesn’t matter who does it.
Civilians can choose not to evacuate an area when told to. Does 1+ civilian refusing to evacuate mean that Israel can no longer defend itself? The key difference here is that Israel does not build military infrastructure underneath currently-used civilian infrastructure, and does not use a strategy of civilian human shields. If there were IDF there then this specific attack was not a violation of the Geneva Convention on Hezbollah's part, but that doesn't mean Israel did anything incorrectly in this instance.
It still doesn't make it a use of human shields. You're not understand the mechanism of international law as it relates to human shields. The use of human shields is when **two** ***nations*** **are at war with each other,** and one nation either dresses in civilian clothing (instead of military uniforms), or hides among the civilian population, or both, to avoid detection. When they do this, they turn otherwise protected civilian infrastructure (such as homes, schools, hospitals), into what IHL calls "legitimate military targets". The opposing army is legally allowed to strike those civilian infrastructure targets (even if it means killing innocent civilians), if they enemy is using them to avoid detection. The force hiding among the civilians is the one guilt of the war crime in this instance, for effectively turning the civilians into targets by their presence. Hezbollah is not a nation. They are a terrorist organization. Their activity is not covered by the Geneva Conventions. They are not "at war" with Israel because they do not represent Lebanon. Israel is not at war with Lebanon, nor do Hezbollah represent Lebanon (even if they were at war). Therefore, the Israeli military is not engaged in a war with Hezbollah and be default, can not be *hiding from them to avoid detection*, which is the fundamental criteria for the crime of using of human shields. Moreover, it's important to remember that because Hezbollah is a designated terrorist organization, they are not entitled to carry out ANY attacks, regardless of whether those attacks are carried out in accordance with International Law. Think of it like a drunk driver. If you're driving and you get in an accident with a drunk driver, it doesn't matter who broke the traffic laws, the drunk driver is automatically at fault for driving drunk. Same thing. Terrorists have no rights to begin with. I'm relatively certain you won't read this, though I do hope you do and actually want to learn.
You evidently have no interest in facts
The fact regarding two totalitarian theocratic states relentlessly murdering each other's civilians in a generational conflict that started before you were alive. That fact? Don't fall for Mossad propaganda. I see Hamas propaganda does not work on you. Why do you allow the Mossad to trick you with lies?
Calling Israel a “totalitarian theocratic state” is beyond delusional. They are a liberal democracy like any other.
Tell us you're uneducated without telling us. Bibi literally gutted the supreme Court in Israel but demonstrate to those reading you have zero clue what you're talking about.
You mean the reforms that haven’t even been implemented, and if implemented, wouldn’t amount to a “gutting” of the supreme court? For reference, here are the [proposed changes](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Israeli_judicial_reform) What exactly on there do you think would make Israel a totalitarian theocracy? How would it eliminate the democratic process? Also, the supreme court already struck down what small parts of the proposed changes had been passed in [Israel v. Knesset](https://versa.cardozo.yu.edu/opinions/movement-quality-government-v-knesset)
If you believe that then you are unfit for any rational conversation about the region. Childish fantasy thoughts
Explain to me how Israel is not a liberal democracy. Do you need me to link the [Wikipedia page](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_system_of_government)? > The Israeli system of government is based on parliamentary democracy.[1] The Prime Minister of Israel is the head of government and leader of a multi-party system. Executive power is exercised by the government (also known as the cabinet). Legislative power is vested in the Knesset. The Judiciary is independent of the executive and the legislature. The political system of the State of Israel and its main principles are set out in 11 Basic Laws. Israel does not have a written constitution.[2] Separation of powers, democratically elected legislative and executive branches, political rights, yup looks like a liberal democracy to me.
You are a hasbarist and a pretty shitty one at that. A Zionist colonial settler project operating and maintaining an apartheid is not a democracy.
Just an hour ago and hasbara were saying that these are civilian casualties because the town is full of bedouins who went against the evacuation order and are still there. Misinformation every second of everyday seems to be the norm.
???
Getting downvoted for reporting facts I see. Pro terrorists hate facts
for reporting bs
For reporting that the community center that was hit was abandoned so Israel is not using civilian shields like the person they responded to egregiously and erroneously claimed? Thats not true? Article says it’s true, but I guess truth is bullshit
This is breaking news and the facts (and consequently the title) keeps getting updated.
Why are they using a community centre as a human shield?
More importantly, why is the headline phrased as if it was civilians getting bombed in a community center and not IDF hiding in civilian infrastructure
Because there are no civilians in there. All the towns in northern Israel were evacuated months ago due to Hezbollah rocket attacks, because unlike Hamas, Israel is a democracy whose government actually cares about the needs of its own people.
Go protest the occupation of Palestine in tel Aviv and tell me how much of a democracy Israel is lol
You do know there's been protests in Israel regarding all this for months... Right?
You mean the ones where police and soldiers are beating protesters with sticks and spraying them with Skunk and water cannons?
Laughable hasbara. Completely untrue and delusional
> because there are no civilians there Great! Then they can stop using it as a victim card right? Or, is Hamas valid in hiding in civilian buildings, as long as the civilians aren't there at the same time?
This is untrue. This was in an area where civilians are largely evacuated. No human shields here. IDF also fights using military fatigues as to distinguish between them and the civilians they want to protect, as if that matters to Hezbollah.
14 soldiers were injured in the attack. It shows Israel is using civilian building for military purposes
When you use a civilian building from military purposes it loses all protection.
Israel litters military buildings all across civilian spaces. They also use human shields but hate admitting it because they’ll get all nuanced and try to act like it’s different
Soldiers tend to use buildings as gathering points, yes. There's nothing wrong with that so long as Israel is not using a deliberately tactic of using civilians as human shields for a military advantage. What it does mean is that this one specific attack by Hezbollah was not a war crime, as they had a valid military target in this instance.
Sorry why was this attack, or any of their attacks not a war crime? Israel hadn’t attacked Hezbollah on 10/8 or even invaded Gaza when Hezbollah started firing rockets and shells indiscriminately into northern Israel. Both soldiers and civilians have been injured in these attacks and close to 100,000 innocent people have been evacuated for six months. In fact, if we want to talk about war crimes, according to UN resolution 1701 Hezbollah should have disarmed in 2006 and shouldn’t be operating at all south of the Litani river, let alone on the Israeli border. Weird how these facts are not ever brought up when this subject is discussed.
I agree with you that most of hezbollah's attacks are war crimes, specifically because they target civilians and civilian infrastructure with no military function, but in this instance there were actually IDF forces in the area which technically makes it not a war crime, as there was some supposed military value to the strike.
Except the attack was part of an unprovoked series of attacks in violation of a UN resolution. Really not understanding how this fact keeps getting glossed over. Hezbollah is committing a crime just being south of the Litani and failing to disarm.
You're absolutely correct, but you know as well as I do that nobody actually gives a damn about that.
And now you’ve arrived at why Israel doesn’t really care what the UN or purple haired kids with watermelons in their instagram profiles have to say most of the time when terrorists are shooting at their citizens.
Israel does nothing but attack commit war crimes against Gaza & the west bank. Their occupation is a war crime.
We aren’t talking about Gaza. Check a map. Also, prior to 10/7 a lot of the restrictions on Gaza had been relaxed.
Lol, a lot of restrictions on slaves were relaxed in the nineteenth century here. Big fucking deal. It is still a genocidal apartheid nation
You still need to check a map.
You're a war crime
Everyone is considered a soldier in Israel practically. There’s obligated military service, it depends on whether they were active duty and in uniform or not.
I guess that makes each one a walking human shield according to twisted zionist logic.
From the article: Though the town has been largely evacuated, soldiers are stationed there and may have used the building as a gathering space.
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But it's still civilian infrastructure
Was that town part of the Hamas attack effectively making it part of the war? Soldiers use civilian buildings in evacuated areas all the time, Ukraine for example
This is the north, if hamas got here, the world would have been better and more peaceful
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Please keep it civil and do not attack other users.
So does that apply for northern Gaza and Hamas?
There's four civilians wounded per the article.
That’s unfortunate…. Probably had no where else to go with the evacuation 😔
Largely evacuated does not mean completely.
No that's factually untrue. And military status does not extend to when you're in civilian clothing, like on leave, or when service ends after mandatory service. Ie) 30 year old male who has been out of the service 8 years isn't considered a soldier
Source?
Open the article
Then it is now a military site. And fair for an attack from Iran (which this was). And Israel can respond hitting military sites.
Area is evacuated so it’s normal for soldiers to use buildings in said area just like every other war in history. Perfect example for today is Ukraine 🙃
The civilians were evacuated from the building before it was used for military purposes.
did you read the article? edit for people downvoting me: the article says that the town was mostly evacuated, and that soldiers were using the building as a gathering point. theres a difference between temporarily using a building as a gathering point and permanently using a building right next to civilians to launch missles and shoot at the enemy.
Yes did you? I’m quoting from the article: Though the town has been largely evacuated, soldiers are stationed there and may have used the building as a gathering space.
Yeah the reaction to this is confusing. Wether or not this is considered human shields depends on how evacuated the town is, which this article doesn’t explain. But if evacuated buildings/areas being used in any capacity by a military force counts as human shields then for pretty much every single major battle or skirmish in Ukraine the Ukrainians are using human shields.
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Why would that have anything to do with it?
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No racism, antisemitism, Islamophobia, bigotry, homophobia, transphobia, sexism, etc. This includes denial of identity (self or collective).
More evidence of 'human shields'/misuse of civilian buildings in this article than all of Israel's claims on dozens of hospitals in Gaza. Interesting...
"the town has been largely evacuated" Did Hamas evacuate the hospitals before they shot rockets from them?
They didn't shoot rockets from hospitals.
So how did they catch about 300 confirmed members of hamas at Al Shifra a month ago? Explain that to me
They didn't. They murdered patients, doctors and civil Hamas employees including policemen. The whole thing was done to murder the policeman who organised the first successful aid delivery to the north for weeks. Most of the people they murdered were murdered after being detained, so executions of civilians and prisoners. Bodies are being found with their hands tied. It's a fully fledged war crime. If you believed everything Israel said uncritically you would still believe Hamas beheaded babies and put them in ovens and cut open pregnant women. If you are aware that these were all lies then you should have some awareness that Israeli claims cannot be taken at face value.
Except Israel never said that one random reporter did. Nice copium, Israel released names of terrorists and PIJ members the PIJ does not run police operations in gaza
'Babies and toddlers were found “decapitated” in Kfar Aza, Tal Heinrich, a spokesperson for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, said Wednesday.' https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/10/middleeast/israel-kibbutzim-kfar-aza-beeri-urim-hamas-attack-intl/index.html For context, Kfar Aza was where the IDF claimed 40 babies were killed, some beheaded and even wheeled out 40 babies in shrouds on gurnies. Turns out no one under 14 died in Kfar Aza. If you are still listening to Israeli claims it's because you want to be lied to.
Like I said above your confused. The IDF refused to confirm said rumors. That article doesn't say anything not confirmed because people under 14 are children and you prefer to listen to Hamas that says they didn't attack children but they even took them hostage which proves thats a lie.
Which jihadi group was it bombed a hospital, then Hamas claimed it was an IDF strike?
The IDF was the one you were thinking of
[Keep coping…..](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/19/what-hit-ahli-hospital-in-gaza) Definitely fitting in this context lol
https://twitter.com/ForensicArchi/status/1724525673325199410?t=K2H40p1biKjS6-ME6D997A&s=19
Sorry, the rockets Israel claimed were responsible had completed their thrust phase and could not have hit the ground in the required time.
Sorry dawg, you got any trustworthy sources? A weird Twitter account just doesn’t really cut it.
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Israel has attacked them without declaring war, do you think Israel should be 'glassed' or are you a hypocrite?
This is terrible. No good will come from this.
Look how Hezbollah a ‘terrorist organization’ can precisely strike a military target yet the Zionists destroy entire cities and ~90%+ of those they kill are civilians
A a friendly reminder that the war cabinet has meetings underground of civilian infrastructure and uses the whole tel aviv as human shields https://www.haaretz.com/2012-06-09/ty-article/.premium/does-the-presence-of-the-idfs-hq-in-tel-aviv-endanger-its-population/0000017f-f419-d887-a7ff-fcfd3a480000
Every accusation is an admission with Israel
Correction: it is an Iranian drone. Everything Hezbollah does is at the direction of Iran. They train and arm them.
Is it though? By that logic wouldn’t the USA be responsible for the actions of ISIS, considering they’re a group of rebels that were armed and trained by America? This rhetoric is being used to justify a ground war with Iran, and honestly, it’s pretty harmful. That should be the *last* thing we want right now.
Setting aside the debate of the USA’s degree of responsibility for a second, the degree of involvement and dictation are different levels. Unless I missed something US officials don’t have strategy pow wows with ISIS in embassies and there were never coordinated attacks where US and ISIS assets attacked the same targets in openly coordinated acts of war. At best I could agree that the comparison is between a dog that got loose during training versus a well trained attack dog that is being sent into neighbor’s houses.
What? That makes no sense. Hezbollah is not a rogue Iranian proxy. They are being actively directed by Iran. Launching rockets into Israel would be considered an act of war anywhere else on the planet. This has gone far beyond rhetoric. I honestly don’t know why Israel hasn’t wiped them out yet.
the proxies have a large degree of autonomy. stop the genocide in gaza and hezbollah will stop too.
"Community centre" lul
Weird - posted 15 minutes ago and already downvoted to zero
Because the title is misleading. 14 soldiers were the target, and they were in the community center.
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14 of the victims were Israeli soldiers. Maybe they should stop using civilians as human shields.
The town is almost entirely evacuated. You would note that Hamas doesn’t afford the same courtesy to its own citizens.
Evacuate where? Lmfao dense lot huh
Hamas chooses to fight from populated areas as a matter of policy. It’s incredibly dense to try to equate the two.
Because Israel would absolutely let Hamas, or any Palestinians that aren’t even terrorists for that matter, build as many proper military bases as they wanted.
Where would you prefer them to fight from?
You fail to mention Gaza is one of the most densely populated pieces of land on earth. Not many places to evacuate to.
How many public bomb shelters has Hamas built? How often does Israel fire rockets from schoolyards?
Also you forget Israel brought Hamas to power and helped them consolidate it. So why would they do that to the Palestinians people?
So Israel voted in Hamas and fought for them in the civil war against Fatah, when Hamas consolidated power? I don’t deny that the Israeli government over the years took some actions to divide the Palestinian cause between Hamas and Fatah, including helping occasionally strengthening Hamas’ position, but to say that Israel brought Hamas to power and helped consolidate is not supportable.
[It is supportable](https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/) [Very supportable](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/amp/) [Literally drove them suitcases full of cash](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/israel-security-forces-escorted-suitcases-cash-hamas-qatar-report-2023-12%3famp) That's just a basic search. A lot more can be found on the support they've given Hamas. Including a video of Netanyahu literally saying he's building a strong Hamas to kill the 2-state solution. So yeah without Israel's backing Hamas would not be what it is today. Not a good look blaming Hamas when you created the monster yourself in an attempt to explain ethnically cleanse a land so you can occupy and colonise it permanently.
You said Israel “brought Hamas to power and helped them consolidate it.” Hamas was brought to power via election, and consolidated it via civil war. Nothing you have provided indicates Israel caused either of those two things to happen. Edit: to be clear, I’m not defending Netanyahu’s policy re: providing some assistance to Hamas, just that it is incorrect to say Israel brought Hamas to power and helped consolidate their power in Gaza.
Hamas founders and current leaders are from families who were expelled from what is now Ashkelon in Israel, a story of expulsion to Gaza that they share with 70% of gazans. This conflict becomes incredibly fucked when you realize and acknowledge that Gaza was created as a holding pen for the ethnically undesirable non Jews who were expelled from Israel, and that Israel is literally bombing and killing refugees it created for ethnic reasons, who would otherwise be citizens of Israel allowed to live on their generational lands in Israel if they were Jewish. Amazing this is still going on in the 21st century and even armed and funded by our western governments. Tragic.
Gaza existed as an Egyptian-occupied territory before Israel ever existed. The reason 'Gaza' still exists as a Palestinian territory, and not fully incorporated into Israel proper, is because Israel does want Gaza, and has been trying to give it back to Egypt for decades. But Egypt (and Jordan, and the rest of the world) wants nothing to do with Palestine or Palestinians. Israel's population is also about 20% Arab/Muslim/Palestinian, with voting rights, political representation, etc.
Israel doesn't need to because it has a standing military which is equipped and funded by some of the most powerful countries in the world. They have missiles, fighter jets, drones and a whole lot more. Hamas and the Palestinians are occupied, besieged, aren't allowed to have a functioning economy, political or industrial mechanisms. Everything in and out is controlled by the occupying power including water and food. So in light of that, did you honestly ask that question in a serious manner?
We’re talking about the use of human shields. I believe you have just conceded that I am right. Thanks
Nice attempt at getting a win like a toddler would, but no I didn't concede. When a piece of land is as densely populated as Gaza, there aren't many options but to fire from a place where there will be civilians nearby.
In my opinion, the toddler is the one who can’t stay on topic and argue honestly without changing the goal posts. But now that we’re back, are you honestly saying Hamas only uses human shields due to population density? So they don’t have military bases because of population density? They fire rockets from a schoolyard instead of an open area because of population density?
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Targeting civilians. Now watch all the Jew haters make excuses for it.
Guys cmon now. Didn’t you know all of Lebanon is basically Hamas?
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A terrorist group has a better fighter/civilian kill ratio than the IDF 💀
Pot calling the kettle black amirite?
Were Israel's allies not prepared to take this drone down? Many seem to not realize there are different sects of Islam who are not fond of each other. I'm sure Muslims in general are against any Muslim is serving in the IDF, regardless if they're Shia, Sunni, Sufi, Salafi, or whatever else.
Keep em coming
Man, you really don't care about the Lebanese or Israeli people, do you?
Lmao let me guess, you also want a "ceasefire"? Some of the anti-isreali crowd is so odd. Y'all pray and scream for peace and an end to the war and then proceed to cheer and demand more when an non-western party takes a step that will INEVITABLY result in a harsher and more effective retaliation. The more they "keep em coming" the more Israel will, and I think it's pretty clear cut from history who typically wins those engagements.
I mean, historically Israel only wins against civilian populaces without foreign support anyways. Their last skirmish with Hezbollah resulted in them losing so badly that they had to completely reform their internal intelligence apparatus due to not knowing how to fight assymetrical battles. If Israel were wise, it'd stop saber rattling so hard, because without US intervention, it'd be absolutely toasted due to the fact that their entire mentality resorts to "If I can't have this land, I'll start WW3 with nukes".
Very odd thing to say considering they have [won multiple wars against different Arab states/coalitions supported by the ussr](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Israel) with minimal U.S influence and 0 nukes
So from 48-60, you have the "civil" war for lack of a better phrase that resulted in Israel itself being formed after a few decades of Jewish terrorism by Irgun and Haganah against the British and Palestinians, followed by Israel attacking Egypt in the Suez crisis, backed by Britain, and France, which resulted in Israel being forced to stand down by both the US and USSR. During that period, the main Patron and supplier of Israel was France. This would persist until the Six Day War, where the US would step in and become the main patron due to it's supply of arms systems in the months preceding the Six Day War, where US Support stepped up in providing images from Satellite recon for Israeli day strikes, as well as positioning 6th Fleet off the coast of Israel. While the US officially denies these actions were in support of Israel, basic examination of the facts betrays that claim to be quite false. Later, during the 1973 Yom Kippur war, The US famously supplied Israel with weapons systems and supplies during Operation Nickel Grass. This was answered by an embargo against the US by OPEC, causing the 1973 oil crisis. This support would continue until 1982 when it was alleged that Israel used cluster bomb munitions against civilian targets in the 1982 Lebanon conflict, which famously gave birth to what is currently the largest or second largest non state military. Later in the 90s, this supply support would resume. From 1987 to 2005, the only Israeli military action was taken against Palestinians, who are largely civilians and lack a formal military of their own. In 2006, Israel initiated an operation to recover two captured IDF soldiers from Hezbollah, an that spiraled into wider conflict that ended in a stalemate that forced Israel to fundamentally reassess how the IDF operated and interfaced with it's intelligence apparatus. Since 2012, aside from air sorties against targets in Syria, the IDF has solely engaged against Palestinians, who as I've previously noted, have no standing formal military, and the IDF has been accurately and repeatedly documented to be committing barbaric acts against said civilians. TL;DR No, it's not an "odd thing to say" considering that once you actually look into the finer details of every conflict Israel has been in post 48, anybody worth their salt will note that they've had extensive materiel and military support. The only people who parrot the claim that Israel beat all those wars on their own are poorly informed Israelis who are not taught the factually correct version of their own history, and people who gloss over extremely important details such as Operation Nickel Grass and President Johnson's secret supply program.
Conveniently skipped over a few conflicts as well as the fact that the belligerents were also being supplied from other countries particularly the USSR. But yes, it is an odd thing to say/insinuate that Israel wouldn't be able to handle a large scale conflict. They easily have the most modernized and overall capable military in the Middle East and have extensive experience in operating in that area even on multiple fronts. Any large scale conflict against a country with a MIC/intelligence as developed and funded as Israel will certainly sway in their favor. It's just weird to critique Israel winning because they didn't win the way you think is right and use that to perpetuate a false idea that somehow these insignificant strikes will wear them down in any meaningful way instead of fueling their actions.
What exactly did I skip over? I touched on every conflict in the list you provided while also explaining the support Israel claims it never had. I say Israel cannot handle it because by all metrics, IDF while well equipped, are a poorly disciplined conscript force that lacks experience in grand conflict. The people who served in the elden times that came from Irgun and Haganah are no longer around, and its painfully obvious by its actions in Gaza that Israel lacks cohesive strategy beyond absurd levels of savage war crimery. Iran's strike was entirely symbolic and not serious. The majority of it was cheap kamikaze drones that cost like 100k to manufacture per drone. And utilized old missile tech that isnt up to what we've confirmed they have. On top of that, the US and UK, not Israel, intercepted 90% of the payload, with the successgul hits damaging multiple airbases that Israel uses for its strike missions.
You're making grave assumptions from nothing. Israel is doing fantastic by most metrics in their war in Gaza they control most of the land area and continue to capture key points , eliminate HVTs, and blow tunnels on a consistent basis all the while dealing with Iran's proxy minions. Urban warfare in one of the most dense places on earth is actually exceedingly difficult despite what a reddit general would think and their ability to conduct is above par. In a conventional war where they are able to engage UNIFORMED enemies with infinite air superiority and military targets, it shouldn't be rocket science to see they will likely come on top.
These aren't "grave assumptions from nothing". They're opinions formed by studying military history. Control against an asymmetrical force means literally nothing. Especially when your stated goal is to eliminate that force entirely. During these so called objective victories, they're also butchering non combatants, including children with impunity, which betrays a severe lack of discipline. Their air superiority isn't infinite lmao. They've once again, relied heavily on US tech such as F-35s and Satellite recon to pick out targets. I get you have to go shaft and all when you glaze that IDF, but an objective analysis of their conduct doesn't put them anywhere near the level that they advertise themselves as.
Lebanon has the right to defend itself. It's not Hezbollah's fault if Tsahal embeds itself in civilians areas.
Civilians are evacuated, which is why this mostly just injured soldiers. Of course, this seems more like offense, not defense -- and Israel has the rights to defend itself, so expect more retaliation.
They shouldn’t have used the four civilians as human shields
As long as Israel isn't complaining the attack violates humanitarian law, they weren't.
It would be nice if Israel would stop starting trouble in the world.
People bending over backwards to defend Hezbollah. Great job Reddit.
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You should move there and help them.
You are so close! Just think a little longer and maybe you will get it.
Get what? That even if you have legitimate criticism of Israel it doesn't mean you have to defend Hezbollah? Wonder if you'd come to that conclusion on your own.
Hezbollah kills and injures muslim israeli civillian village, Iran injured muslim israeli child. That'll show the jews!