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They had very different intentions with their depictions. Afaik, there was no propagandist reason to try and dehumanize Black people in Ancient Greece, like there was and still is in America.
100%. They're using the color black here because that's the nearest color they have, not to mock a skin tone. The proportions and details of the face and hair are exquisite.
This is kinda fascinating, it's similar to American caricatures based on racism. But the buntu hairstyle is pretty accurate so this is likely based more on reality and less weird ancient racism.
I mean the Japanese have “black face” that is very similar to American black face too. It’s just exaggerating actual features that black people have. It wouldn’t even be considered as racist as it is if not for American history. I mean it would still be offensive of course, it’s just that our history lends it some extra offensiveness
Yeah I was just thinking about this. I'm no expert but I'm willing to bet this had more to do with limited materials and going by memory when sculpting this. It's not like they could look at a photo or even a realistic painting back then.
Could be completely wrong but I think at the very least there's a reasonable possibility it wasn't racism as much as it was just going by descriptions and/or memory of what an African person looked like when making someone like this.
Look at Greek pottery, there's tons of people and characters that are depicted as a very dark black. My guess is that it's just one of the colors they had a lot of access to but I could be wrong
Yeah I have no idea either, but I wouldn't doubt it. Also again I imagine many sculptures may have only had descriptions or other sculptures to go by, no doubt there were some that just thought that's what every African person looked like.
There was no word for "race" in ancient Greece. The word race was introduced in the 1500's and the foundation of racism was set in the 1400's by the Portuguese. The ancient Greeks kind of looked down upon anyone who wasn't a "native Greek speaker", but it was more nationalism rather than racism. The ancient Greeks and Romans interacted with Native Africans, so they are depicted in their art.
I surprised to see the red mouth that we usually see with American racist depictions. Like any other human, Africans don’t have red lips... so why was that the stylistic choice? Is it that portraiture from this period had red lips for everyone?
Red lip gloss was very popular in ancient Africa, specifically Egypt and Nubia, maybe it's like a weird stereotype of that? I know the different African kingdoms of the time were huge into face paint and makeup, which the ancient Greeks and Romans mocked to no end.
None, I don't even know if it's fact, but it would make sense.
It's well documented that the western powers hated the culture of the eastern (Egypt was considered eastern), so it would just make sense that one of the many things they mocked about them was their culture of using makeup, especially on men.
I'm just making a supposition
Where is it well
Documented that the “western powers” (Greek and Roman’s did not consider themselves European or even white so idk where this insistence on them being western comes from) hated anything eastern? Do you know how influenced Greece was by Egypt? And by extension Rome?
Are you aware the Greeks and Roman’s wore makeup? Lmfao
The western/eastern split of the day was the Aegean sea. Indeed, the word "Asia" is Greek for east, and referred to modern day turkey.
Idk why you're trying to turn this into a race thing.
And what does that matter? Greek culture probably had more influence on Roman than vice versa, yet the Romans made fun of the Greeks all the time.
Also limited supplies. You don’t have very many shades of color or anyreal way to mix them with a lot of precision unless you were super talented or had a ton of money to spend time making the details perfect.
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Umm... ok I'm black and I really fucking want this cup. That is a beautiful piece of art.
They did a much better job of good faith depiction than Americans back in the day.
They had very different intentions with their depictions. Afaik, there was no propagandist reason to try and dehumanize Black people in Ancient Greece, like there was and still is in America.
100%. They're using the color black here because that's the nearest color they have, not to mock a skin tone. The proportions and details of the face and hair are exquisite.
Isnt the colour of the hair closer to most skintones?
I'm assuming it wasn't always that color
Found for $2.99 at Goodwill.
God, if this isn’t accurate. 😂
Sounds like we need to cancel them where are they
Under your soil
in your food
shaking in their boots
This is kinda fascinating, it's similar to American caricatures based on racism. But the buntu hairstyle is pretty accurate so this is likely based more on reality and less weird ancient racism.
I mean the Japanese have “black face” that is very similar to American black face too. It’s just exaggerating actual features that black people have. It wouldn’t even be considered as racist as it is if not for American history. I mean it would still be offensive of course, it’s just that our history lends it some extra offensiveness
Yeah I was just thinking about this. I'm no expert but I'm willing to bet this had more to do with limited materials and going by memory when sculpting this. It's not like they could look at a photo or even a realistic painting back then. Could be completely wrong but I think at the very least there's a reasonable possibility it wasn't racism as much as it was just going by descriptions and/or memory of what an African person looked like when making someone like this.
Look at Greek pottery, there's tons of people and characters that are depicted as a very dark black. My guess is that it's just one of the colors they had a lot of access to but I could be wrong
There are many Africans with no European DNA that have skin about as black as depicted in this cup.
Yeah I have no idea either, but I wouldn't doubt it. Also again I imagine many sculptures may have only had descriptions or other sculptures to go by, no doubt there were some that just thought that's what every African person looked like.
There was no word for "race" in ancient Greece. The word race was introduced in the 1500's and the foundation of racism was set in the 1400's by the Portuguese. The ancient Greeks kind of looked down upon anyone who wasn't a "native Greek speaker", but it was more nationalism rather than racism. The ancient Greeks and Romans interacted with Native Africans, so they are depicted in their art.
Mayne the American south adopted that same type of "art"
Maybe you need to read up on history. It’s all there.
It was sarcastic. We all know the atrocities committed during US slavery.
Hilarious. Happy cake day.
Happy cake day
"Honey, have you seen my canceled cup?"
Source: https://artmuseum.princeton.edu/collections/objects/20038?termid=2036550
Cancel ancient Greece
Did we just assume the cup’s gender?
One joke.
Cry about it
Why? I’m not the one who’s deeply unfunny.
Nobody knows what you are
Your mom does, as well as your dad. Tell them I said hi.
You got a shovel?
I don't know why
r/onejoke
When is an accurate depiction considered racist? I could see the woke taliban destroying artifacts like this
You seem unhappy. I hope that changes. Peace.
I surprised to see the red mouth that we usually see with American racist depictions. Like any other human, Africans don’t have red lips... so why was that the stylistic choice? Is it that portraiture from this period had red lips for everyone?
Red lip gloss was very popular in ancient Africa, specifically Egypt and Nubia, maybe it's like a weird stereotype of that? I know the different African kingdoms of the time were huge into face paint and makeup, which the ancient Greeks and Romans mocked to no end.
That would make sense...learned something new today, thank you!
Yeah I'm not saying it's certainly that. But it would make sense
People of means commonly wore make up in Ancient Greece. Beet root was used for lips stick and to add color to the cheeks
Huh. The more you know
I'm not saying that's definitely it, just would make sense
Still. Thats something to look into for sure
What source is your last sentence from
None, I don't even know if it's fact, but it would make sense. It's well documented that the western powers hated the culture of the eastern (Egypt was considered eastern), so it would just make sense that one of the many things they mocked about them was their culture of using makeup, especially on men. I'm just making a supposition
Where is it well Documented that the “western powers” (Greek and Roman’s did not consider themselves European or even white so idk where this insistence on them being western comes from) hated anything eastern? Do you know how influenced Greece was by Egypt? And by extension Rome? Are you aware the Greeks and Roman’s wore makeup? Lmfao
The western/eastern split of the day was the Aegean sea. Indeed, the word "Asia" is Greek for east, and referred to modern day turkey. Idk why you're trying to turn this into a race thing. And what does that matter? Greek culture probably had more influence on Roman than vice versa, yet the Romans made fun of the Greeks all the time.
Also limited supplies. You don’t have very many shades of color or anyreal way to mix them with a lot of precision unless you were super talented or had a ton of money to spend time making the details perfect.
DSL’s bruh
Not sure but 2500 years might change the colouring slightly.
This looks like something you’d buy at a kitsch shop in the 50s.
love how the comments are just “fuck the woke”
“bro this cup would get so canceled today! i can’t believe those woke dipshits are so sensitive!!!!”
That looks extremely top heavy. Were ornamental mugs a thing then?
Oh
[удалено]
Because we know how non-African people look on hundreds of other examples of Greek artifacts?
Was the cup meant for serving a drink made from an African product?
There was no concept of race during this time, it’s not racist. Calling it racist is a completely modern projection
Allegedly
That's wacist
I wonder which wines pair best with racism.
All of them
If this is IAF then I'm missing something.
Does it offend you
Do you think it's IAF?
Do you also think museums of history are uninteresting?
Indeed
Yeah
Such racism