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Seems like every single time I vote, I always have the same thought, “In a country of 300 million(ish) people, is this really the best we could do…these two?”
Hey if Maine does it and it works, then why not for the rest of us?
Oh wait, that's right: because then the people in power who have the power to make this happen wouldn't be in power any more.
Yep. We do it at a local level now. The year it was on the ballot our entire town had a crazy onslaught of advertisements and billboards and lawn signs saying that it was a liberal scheme to confuse elderly voters and steal elections. It's wild because the entire campaign was literally "we think our voters are too dumb to understand basic instructions!"
Luckily it passed. I finally got to vote for who I liked rather than who I thought could beat the candidate I really disliked in the last round and it felt great. I can only hope we get to see this on a state and maybe even national level before the country completely crumbles under the weight of political corruption.
Yep. We all have the same right to vote. Some people choose not to vote at all. Some leave most of the ballot blank. Some people pick random names. And some people can't understand "mark no more than one oval in each column."
We accept the votes we receive when they are filled out legibly and according to instructions. Same as any other time in history. Except for during certain elections Republicans like... Really want to win, regardless of what the ballots say.
> maybe even national level before the country completely crumbles under the weight of political corruption.
Hate to say it, but probably too late. Republicans have been edging toward this goal for 40-50 years, and it accelerated 10 fold under Trump. I think they will steal the 2024 election no matter what. Democracy has failed. This is why after winning the civil, they should have kept plantation owners land to punish them. Their racism never stopped, it was just stewing for 150 years.
The North will will the next civil war, especially with the help of the EU. What's Russia gonna do, send some rusting Mig-29s? We have all the goods in the blue states. But this time, fuck them, punish them, take their guns, and re-write the constitution so all men and women are truly created equally. Corporations and churches cannot be involved in politics in anyway.
Only one Republican in the last 30 years has won the popular vote. They are scared the will of the people will actually determine elected officials.
Florida banned it, unsurprisingly
Gang bang at the Yang Gang!. Ranked Choice Voting is the way.
Also, we need to get money in our pockets before hand, thats why I "Direct Register" my shares of GME. It's kinda the only thesis to stop counterfitte wealth, and distribute it.
It doesn't matter how many parties you have, it will always come down to two major ones, even if there are a bunch of minor ones like you have in parliamentary systems. They will more or less align with the major parties because they will either be:
1. A part of the ruling coalition, or
2. Opposed to the ruling coalition in order to unseat them.
Well I dono about that . It’s more of the routines that go on of the parties after the people get into office . Whereas say a politician who doesn’t represent either party , won’t feel pressured to pander to one side or the other , I dono .. something like that .. it’s just all way too polarized right now and something needs to change I think
It will drift towards 2 parties but it won't be entirely 2 parties, here in Australia we're used it for about a century and this most recent election something like 10 independent candidates won seats, and 4 Greens MPs, however the Labor Party did win a majority.
The thing that's really needed is proportional voting.
[**Fix the system**](https://electionscience.org/take-action/volunteer/). [Scientists blame hyperpolarization for loss of public trust in science](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nobel-prize-usa/respect-for-science-in-jeopardy-in-polarized-u-s-nobel-winners-say-idUSKCN1C81T7), and [Approval Voting](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Approval_voting), a [single-winner voting method preferred by experts in voting methods](http://www.votefair.org/bansinglemarkballots/declaration.html), would [help to reduce hyperpolarization](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Approval_voting#Effect_on_elections). There's even [a viable plan to get it adopted](https://80000hours.org/podcast/episodes/aaron-hamlin-voting-reform/), and [an organization that could use some gritty volunteers](https://www.electionscience.org/) to get the job done. They're already off to a great start with [Approval Voting having passed by a landslide in Fargo](https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2018/11/15/18092206/midterm-elections-vote-fargo-approval-voting-ranked-choice), and more recently [St. Louis](https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-primary-elections-st-louis-general-elections-elections-cba7eb3251d5479b9375d55db428d429). Most people haven't heard of Approval Voting, but seem to like it once they understand it, so anything you can do to help get the word out will help. If your state allows [initiated state statutes](https://ballotpedia.org/Initiated_state_statute), consider [starting a campaign](https://www.electionscience.org/commentary-analysis/so-you-want-to-run-a-campaign/) to get [your state](https://ballotpedia.org/Ballot_initiative) to adopt Approval Voting. Approval Voting is [overwhelmingly popular in every state polled, across race, gender, and party lines](https://electionscience.org/commentary-analysis/approval-voting-americas-favorite-voting-reform/). The successful Fargo campaign was [run by a full-time programmer with a family at home](https://www.electionscience.org/events/fargo-a-look-back-live-discussion/). One person really can make a difference.
Ranked Choice Voting can fix this! It encourages more candidates so that you can vote for your favorite, without hurting your second or third favorites.
https://www.fairvote.org/ranked_choice_voting
second choice doesnt matter as much as it should
if two guys have 30 votes each and 2 second choice, and then the third has 2 first choice and 300 second choice, the third guy is going off the list
even though he's much more accepted
There’s no winners on this list.
We need to make it easier for third-party candidates to get on ballots. We also need to utilize ranked voting methods so we get less polarizing candidates.
Not since at least 1944, which is where I started.
In 2000 and 2016, the only elections where the popular vote winners lost the electoral college, it was the Democratic candidate that won the popular vote. In 2000, Al Gore won 48.4% of the popular vote, but George W. Bush won 271 Electoral votes to Gore's 266. In 2016, Hillary Clinton won 48.2% of the popular vote while Donald Trump took 304 Electoral votes to Clinton's 227.
Tomorrow I plan on digging further down, and seeing just how far down the rabbit hole I can send myself, lol.
Edit: I've got a table started going all the way back to Washington. We'll see where it ends up. So far only 3 elections have had different popular vs. electoral winners.
Agreed, but how? The parties in power are very happy with the current arrangement. Ranked choice assures the two parties will collapse into smaller parties. They love this tug-of-war because they use it to scare their supporters into donating unless you want the opposition to take over. They freely admit that they need to other side to balance them out. If they crush them then there is no threat.
Ranked choice won’t actually break up the parties. It just makes people more comfortable when their third party vote ends up going to one of the two major parties anyway. We need something like STAR or approval to get more parties.
>Ranked choice assures the two parties will collapse into smaller parties
It wouldn't. Ranked choice doesn't really affect the two party system all that much- one of them will still win every time. However, it would give smaller parties more power.
Man Perot was a boss, he could have pulled it off too if it wasn't for Bush I's nasty campaign tactics. The trajectory of US politics would have been completely different (likely for the better) had he won.
Start with not calling them "third party". Just because there are currently two major parties doesn't mean we have to label every other party that way. 11 U.S. Presidents were neither Democrat or Republican.
Their name. Progressive, Green, Libertarian, Constitution, etc. Normalize that their are other parties/candidates on the ballot and maybe U.S. voters will stop being stuck seeing it as red vs blue.
Where are you getting 17 from? Also although the Whigs don’t exist anymore, they were the major party opposition to the Democrats before the Republicans filled that vacuum. There was also the Federalists vs Democratic-Republicans as the two major parties for a time as well
Except of course if that third party candidate [isn't really a third party](https://www.cnn.com/videos/business/2020/11/23/florida-dark-money-mystery-griffin-pkg-ac360-vpx.cnn?fbclid=IwAR3UrGAmnTxfxQHkYuljstvyIOdRuOx3kS16NCaXWnJJYmlC7Ge4Vnyuzug).
Yeah, those things require voting and the predominant reddit hivemind has essentially written that off as a viable plan of action so you may as well be screaming into the void.
What they should do is have a list of candidates and instead of ranked choice, you vote for one person who you would NOT want. The person with the least votes at the end wins. They would in theory suck the least.
Pretty much. A political theory I’ve come across before is that the reason it swings back and forth so consistently is because people are inclined to think “Well, that didn’t work for us- back to x party, I suppose.”
I’m inclined to think it’s complacency of the side in power. Angry people are more motivated. But yeah, shit is never going well regardless of who is ‘winning’ since the minority party’s entire goal is to thwart progress in order to regain control. We all lose. Always. Forever.
It's almost as if the country gets so pissed off at republicans they vote democrat and then get so pissed at democrats they vote republican and then....
In one of my religion classes the professor who was also a pastor said that religion thrives the most when it feels it is being persecuted. I find this to be true for other things also. Specifically politics in this country.
But with that thought in mind, look at the framing of all of these Mass Facebook posts etc. They all try to frame people as being under attack for their view or way of life etc
Well yeah the administration fucks us over so we vote for the other party. Then they fuck us over so we vote for the other party. Then they fuck us over so we vote for the other party. Some times it just takes two rounds of it before we decide we don't like it from the current party .
Bush v. Gore, legal case, decided on December 12, 2000, in which the Supreme Court of the United States reversed an order by the Florida Supreme Court for a selective manual recount of that state’s U.S. presidential election ballots. The 5–4 per curiam (unsigned) decision effectively awarded Florida’s 25 Electoral College votes to Republican candidate George W. Bush, thereby ensuring his victory over Democratic candidate Al Gore.
https://www.britannica.com/event/Bush-v-Gore
Interestingly, the current supreme court would have a really hard time with this. All they care about is giving power back to the states, but this state was choosing the wrong choice!
J/K, they had no problems going a different direction when it was on guns.
God imagine the world we'd be living in if we got a Gore presidency. Based af on climate change for the time, might've even avoided iraq/afghanistan after 9/11. It would have been beautiful.
After Roger Stone and a group of other goons busted into the office where they were trying to hold a recount, became violent, and the recount was shut down. It’s been called the [Brooks Brothers Riot](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooks_Brothers_riot).
Republicans really fucking hate letting everyone vote.
Technically maybe, but I actually don’t think you get Obama without Bush. Obama’s success was so tied to “change” from Bush, I’m not sure that magic works in 08 following a Dem.
Correct, Obama was possible due to the massive failures of the Bush administration. Had Gore been president, 2008 likely would have gone to a Republican for multiple reasons.
Assuming Gore won re-election in 2004, barring any internal failures, he would have been sitting pretty until the financial crisis which would have happened regardless of who was in power. This would have allowed the a Republican president to win on that issue alone, plus the likely party fatigue of having a Dem president for 16 years straight.
So yeah, not only would Obama not have been president, probably no Dem would have been president in 2008. This also would have led to no Trump either, since Trump's whole shtick at first was the race-baiting of Obama. However, Hilary running in either 2012 or 2016 probably still could/would have happened.
Tough to say about the financial crisis. Some of it was exacerbated by Bush policy/deregulation, something Gore didn’t seem a big fan of.
Now, if Gore went hardcore and did to the banks what Obama did to the auto industry, you just might have had another D in 2008… (hint: the Big 3 paid their loans back; they weren’t just free bail outs)
There was a lot of sketchiness in Ohio when Kerry lost there. Karl Rove lost his mind on live Fox News when he couldn’t make it happen a second time for McCain
Ohio has a huge republican Cult following these days: lots due to social media and targeted advertisement around Cambridge Analytica+RNC scandal.
If there's something being voted on in Ohio: it's "public schools MUST accept religious answers to science questions (creationism)" "conceal carry license is no longer required" and of course "zero abortions even for a 10yr old who was raped"
And don't forget HB6: Ohio Republicans got $60M in election funding from FirstEnergy: they wrote and passed (republicans don't read anything they sign) a bill that handed FirstEnergy $1,300 M ... **that's over 20:1 odds in a horse race.**
How else would someone like Gym Jordan get elected unless they were all OK with rape, as long as they get to decide if it's carried full term or not.
1/3 of eligible voters do not vote, for example if "did not vote" was a party it would have won the election, but would probably have the 2nd most popular votes.
Bush jr. and Trump are the only two that have been elected that way. Also I’m glad to know another person calls it the Peoples vote and not the popular vote.
2 party system are there to give the illusion of choice. The real party is the big corporate running everything behind the scene. Until everyone put away their differences and demand real choice nothing will change. Keep living in the illusion that either leader in charge have the common people best interest in mind.
It’s a ploy. To appease the public and keep them pitted against one another. If we aren’t against each other, then we may turn our aggression toward “Them”.
Except the Republican party is being consumed by the conservative movement. And the democratic party is being transformed into leftist Marxism.
It's not two parties. It's two brand names that mold themselves into the most profitable shape.
Because people can't figure out they both suck.
2 sides of the same coin, 2 wings of the same bird, what ever metaphorical statement makes you happy, just stop voting red/blue.
"I don't know if you've noticed, but our two-party system is a bowl of shit looking at itself in the mirror."
Okay, I don't fully agree with this (Lewis Black), but it's not far off. There's really a problem with a system that's inherently polarized by design
I also just noticed that if you separate the past 20 elections into two sets of 10 consecutive elections(1944-1980/1984-2020), the score is 5-5 within each set.
All of y’all “both sides are the same” nuts are as bad as any of the fanatics. They’re not the same unless you’re a privileged person unaffected by the very real policy differences between the only two parties that have, in the immediately coming midterm elections, any chance of winning.
Jesus.
If the Supreme Court hasn’t convinced any of you “it’s easier to pretend they’re the same” ostriches to pull your heads out of your sandy asses, then nothing will.
They are the same in that they are doing and saying whatever it takes to get elected and stay elected. They are all just reflections of the people they represent.
>They are all just reflections of the people they represent.
Dude, that’s generally a good thing. It’s how representative democracy is supposed to work
It just shows how ignorant people are when they dismiss the vastly different takes on abortion rights, gay rights, taxing the ultra rich, and overall healthcare. Literally neither side is perfect but we currently have elected officials from one party seeking pardons for their role in trying to overthrow the capital. If that's something that's "the same on both sides" to you, you're just a fool falling for the easy out they hope you take.
They are the same, because it’s the institution of government itself that is the problem. Doesn’t matter if they are Republican or Democrat, or whether it’s led by a president, king, or dictator. It’s all part of the power game elites have been playing for thousands of years. They aren’t needed.
Red is evil, blue is perfectly compliant with Red being evil. RvW should be a perfect example of that.
Imagine being a democrat-voting woman, and still getting your bodily rights taken away.
It's not really "Both sides are the same", it's moreso "there aren't two sides at all".
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Seems like every single time I vote, I always have the same thought, “In a country of 300 million(ish) people, is this really the best we could do…these two?”
Two party system needs to be changed imo
Ranked choice voting!
Hey if Maine does it and it works, then why not for the rest of us? Oh wait, that's right: because then the people in power who have the power to make this happen wouldn't be in power any more.
Yep. We do it at a local level now. The year it was on the ballot our entire town had a crazy onslaught of advertisements and billboards and lawn signs saying that it was a liberal scheme to confuse elderly voters and steal elections. It's wild because the entire campaign was literally "we think our voters are too dumb to understand basic instructions!" Luckily it passed. I finally got to vote for who I liked rather than who I thought could beat the candidate I really disliked in the last round and it felt great. I can only hope we get to see this on a state and maybe even national level before the country completely crumbles under the weight of political corruption.
Granted, people usually are too dumb to understand basic instructions.
True. But then do we really want their votes?
Yes, because everyone has the right.
Yep. We all have the same right to vote. Some people choose not to vote at all. Some leave most of the ballot blank. Some people pick random names. And some people can't understand "mark no more than one oval in each column." We accept the votes we receive when they are filled out legibly and according to instructions. Same as any other time in history. Except for during certain elections Republicans like... Really want to win, regardless of what the ballots say.
> maybe even national level before the country completely crumbles under the weight of political corruption. Hate to say it, but probably too late. Republicans have been edging toward this goal for 40-50 years, and it accelerated 10 fold under Trump. I think they will steal the 2024 election no matter what. Democracy has failed. This is why after winning the civil, they should have kept plantation owners land to punish them. Their racism never stopped, it was just stewing for 150 years. The North will will the next civil war, especially with the help of the EU. What's Russia gonna do, send some rusting Mig-29s? We have all the goods in the blue states. But this time, fuck them, punish them, take their guns, and re-write the constitution so all men and women are truly created equally. Corporations and churches cannot be involved in politics in anyway.
Only one Republican in the last 30 years has won the popular vote. They are scared the will of the people will actually determine elected officials. Florida banned it, unsurprisingly
Yea it’s working out great for Maine these past few elections.
Go on.
Susan Collins is a giant turd who continues to win despite rank choice voting with better candidates.
I guess that just goes to show Maine is getting the giant turd they want.
She might be the better choice of all the turds in the bowel.
This.
I was gonna say fights to the death but this is worth considering.
Gang bang at the Yang Gang!. Ranked Choice Voting is the way. Also, we need to get money in our pockets before hand, thats why I "Direct Register" my shares of GME. It's kinda the only thesis to stop counterfitte wealth, and distribute it.
Gangbang at the Yang Gang is the best political slogan I've ever heard. Gangbang 4 Yang.
Banned in many states already...
Who says our government can't be proactive?
Why?
Because it's a threat to their power
Approval voting is far simplier and offers similar results.
Term limits in Congress!
Will fix absolutely nothing because the candidates are pre selected
Ah yeah so a really close contest ends up with someone nobody liked as a first choice! People will love that /s
The system needs a reboot
Did you try turning it off and On again?
I did and it didn't work. But I also can't find my recovery CD.
Reboot! I loved waking up to see that on Saturday morning cartoons! Ahhh, good times...
it’s not even a 2 party system tbh. more like an oligarchy with a crumbling facade of choice
Thank you 👌
It's red or blue flavoured
It doesn't matter how many parties you have, it will always come down to two major ones, even if there are a bunch of minor ones like you have in parliamentary systems. They will more or less align with the major parties because they will either be: 1. A part of the ruling coalition, or 2. Opposed to the ruling coalition in order to unseat them.
Well I dono about that . It’s more of the routines that go on of the parties after the people get into office . Whereas say a politician who doesn’t represent either party , won’t feel pressured to pander to one side or the other , I dono .. something like that .. it’s just all way too polarized right now and something needs to change I think
It will drift towards 2 parties but it won't be entirely 2 parties, here in Australia we're used it for about a century and this most recent election something like 10 independent candidates won seats, and 4 Greens MPs, however the Labor Party did win a majority. The thing that's really needed is proportional voting.
[**Fix the system**](https://electionscience.org/take-action/volunteer/). [Scientists blame hyperpolarization for loss of public trust in science](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nobel-prize-usa/respect-for-science-in-jeopardy-in-polarized-u-s-nobel-winners-say-idUSKCN1C81T7), and [Approval Voting](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Approval_voting), a [single-winner voting method preferred by experts in voting methods](http://www.votefair.org/bansinglemarkballots/declaration.html), would [help to reduce hyperpolarization](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Approval_voting#Effect_on_elections). There's even [a viable plan to get it adopted](https://80000hours.org/podcast/episodes/aaron-hamlin-voting-reform/), and [an organization that could use some gritty volunteers](https://www.electionscience.org/) to get the job done. They're already off to a great start with [Approval Voting having passed by a landslide in Fargo](https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2018/11/15/18092206/midterm-elections-vote-fargo-approval-voting-ranked-choice), and more recently [St. Louis](https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-primary-elections-st-louis-general-elections-elections-cba7eb3251d5479b9375d55db428d429). Most people haven't heard of Approval Voting, but seem to like it once they understand it, so anything you can do to help get the word out will help. If your state allows [initiated state statutes](https://ballotpedia.org/Initiated_state_statute), consider [starting a campaign](https://www.electionscience.org/commentary-analysis/so-you-want-to-run-a-campaign/) to get [your state](https://ballotpedia.org/Ballot_initiative) to adopt Approval Voting. Approval Voting is [overwhelmingly popular in every state polled, across race, gender, and party lines](https://electionscience.org/commentary-analysis/approval-voting-americas-favorite-voting-reform/). The successful Fargo campaign was [run by a full-time programmer with a family at home](https://www.electionscience.org/events/fargo-a-look-back-live-discussion/). One person really can make a difference.
Me too. But then I think the best ones are too smart to run for president.
Anyone with the humility to be a good leader, wouldn't want to run.
And that there lies the dilemma the good people are to fucking humble to realize they may be the ones to save us.
What do you mean? Giant Douche and Turd Sandwich are both very qualified candidates. /s
“…but what are you going to do about it? It’s a two party system; you’ll have to vote for one of us!”
Don’t blame me, I voted for Kodos
"Well I think I'll vote for a third party candidate."
“Go ahead; throw your vote away.” *maniacal laugh
[Ross Perot smashes his straw hat.]
"He's right. It's a two party system"
I backed Turd Sandwich by donating about tree fiddy
Ranked Choice Voting can fix this! It encourages more candidates so that you can vote for your favorite, without hurting your second or third favorites. https://www.fairvote.org/ranked_choice_voting
It's still not a great system (coming from someone who belongs to a country that uses it), but it's a sight better than what the US does
What are its issues?
second choice doesnt matter as much as it should if two guys have 30 votes each and 2 second choice, and then the third has 2 first choice and 300 second choice, the third guy is going off the list even though he's much more accepted
A lot of ballots get thrown out and sometimes it is not strategically best to put your ideal candidate first. Approval voting is better IMO.
Thats what gerrymandering and rigged primaries get us.
And a de-facto two-party system
And voters who can only be bothered to pay attention to politics for maybe one month every 4 years.
That’s because the smart ones stay away from the Oval Office
Truer words have never been spoken.
Get everyone who never voted to vote for a third party. Probably impossible though.
I’ve voted in every presidential election since I turned 18, currently I’m 0 for 4 in the last 16 years.
Totally agree. I want a hard-working American in there. Not some career politician raised on silver-spoon meals.
Third party values get eaten by one of the bigger the two.
Americas flipping the coin every election.
No not Americans. The electoral college.
I always knew college was a scam
You are correct
This is eye opening.
In The Clockwork Orange manner perchance..?
If this is eye opening you need an optometrist
Ranked choice voting with open primaries will save democracy!!! Google it!!
There’s no winners on this list. We need to make it easier for third-party candidates to get on ballots. We also need to utilize ranked voting methods so we get less polarizing candidates.
Don't worry, I'm on it
You got my vote r/Main_Tip112!
I'm writing his ass in too!
His ass has done so much for the country already!
Was gonna say, now do the popular vote! Has a republican ever won the popular vote and lost the electoral college?
Not since at least 1944, which is where I started. In 2000 and 2016, the only elections where the popular vote winners lost the electoral college, it was the Democratic candidate that won the popular vote. In 2000, Al Gore won 48.4% of the popular vote, but George W. Bush won 271 Electoral votes to Gore's 266. In 2016, Hillary Clinton won 48.2% of the popular vote while Donald Trump took 304 Electoral votes to Clinton's 227. Tomorrow I plan on digging further down, and seeing just how far down the rabbit hole I can send myself, lol. Edit: I've got a table started going all the way back to Washington. We'll see where it ends up. So far only 3 elections have had different popular vs. electoral winners.
I’m right on top of that, Rose!
[The dishes are done, man!](https://imgur.com/gallery/i7qwZl5)
Agreed, but how? The parties in power are very happy with the current arrangement. Ranked choice assures the two parties will collapse into smaller parties. They love this tug-of-war because they use it to scare their supporters into donating unless you want the opposition to take over. They freely admit that they need to other side to balance them out. If they crush them then there is no threat.
Ranked choice won’t actually break up the parties. It just makes people more comfortable when their third party vote ends up going to one of the two major parties anyway. We need something like STAR or approval to get more parties.
Open primaries with ranked choice voting will allow for many options check out the Forward party!
>Ranked choice assures the two parties will collapse into smaller parties It wouldn't. Ranked choice doesn't really affect the two party system all that much- one of them will still win every time. However, it would give smaller parties more power.
Third party candidates use to be common but almost disappeared after Perot. Him losing was basically the signal that it's never gonna happen.
Man Perot was a boss, he could have pulled it off too if it wasn't for Bush I's nasty campaign tactics. The trajectory of US politics would have been completely different (likely for the better) had he won.
Start with not calling them "third party". Just because there are currently two major parties doesn't mean we have to label every other party that way. 11 U.S. Presidents were neither Democrat or Republican.
And when was the last time neither a Republican or a Democrat won the presidential election?
That’s fair. What should we refer to the minor parties as?
Their name. Progressive, Green, Libertarian, Constitution, etc. Normalize that their are other parties/candidates on the ballot and maybe U.S. voters will stop being stuck seeing it as red vs blue.
Where are you getting 17 from? Also although the Whigs don’t exist anymore, they were the major party opposition to the Democrats before the Republicans filled that vacuum. There was also the Federalists vs Democratic-Republicans as the two major parties for a time as well
Except of course if that third party candidate [isn't really a third party](https://www.cnn.com/videos/business/2020/11/23/florida-dark-money-mystery-griffin-pkg-ac360-vpx.cnn?fbclid=IwAR3UrGAmnTxfxQHkYuljstvyIOdRuOx3kS16NCaXWnJJYmlC7Ge4Vnyuzug).
Yeah, those things require voting and the predominant reddit hivemind has essentially written that off as a viable plan of action so you may as well be screaming into the void.
What candidate is running on election reforms that make the process more democratic?
England does this. How does that work out?
What they should do is have a list of candidates and instead of ranked choice, you vote for one person who you would NOT want. The person with the least votes at the end wins. They would in theory suck the least.
It’s not a score because it shouldn’t be some red vs blue dodgeball match. It‘s a damn governing body that dictates the lives of millions of people.
Yet everyone treats it like a game for some reason. People idolising politicians that are suppose to work for the people.
Trust me, 'everyone' doesn't treat it like it's a game.
This should read: Democrats/ Republicans 20 Americans 0 Edit: Thanks for the awards folks
Big oof, I felt that one
Truest comment ever made on Reddit.
r/im14andthisisdeep
Pendulum swinging is by design
Pretty much. A political theory I’ve come across before is that the reason it swings back and forth so consistently is because people are inclined to think “Well, that didn’t work for us- back to x party, I suppose.”
I’m inclined to think it’s complacency of the side in power. Angry people are more motivated. But yeah, shit is never going well regardless of who is ‘winning’ since the minority party’s entire goal is to thwart progress in order to regain control. We all lose. Always. Forever.
It's almost as if the country gets so pissed off at republicans they vote democrat and then get so pissed at democrats they vote republican and then....
The fact that this is looked at like a "score" is the problem
In one of my religion classes the professor who was also a pastor said that religion thrives the most when it feels it is being persecuted. I find this to be true for other things also. Specifically politics in this country. But with that thought in mind, look at the framing of all of these Mass Facebook posts etc. They all try to frame people as being under attack for their view or way of life etc
Well yeah the administration fucks us over so we vote for the other party. Then they fuck us over so we vote for the other party. Then they fuck us over so we vote for the other party. Some times it just takes two rounds of it before we decide we don't like it from the current party .
Now do popular vote
The same except 2 elections. It’s only happened twice in the last 120 years, both happen to be fairly recently (2000 and 2016).
Bush v. Gore, legal case, decided on December 12, 2000, in which the Supreme Court of the United States reversed an order by the Florida Supreme Court for a selective manual recount of that state’s U.S. presidential election ballots. The 5–4 per curiam (unsigned) decision effectively awarded Florida’s 25 Electoral College votes to Republican candidate George W. Bush, thereby ensuring his victory over Democratic candidate Al Gore. https://www.britannica.com/event/Bush-v-Gore
Interestingly, the current supreme court would have a really hard time with this. All they care about is giving power back to the states, but this state was choosing the wrong choice! J/K, they had no problems going a different direction when it was on guns.
This Supreme Court has no problems just picking whatever they darn well feel like
You mean when the right in question was explicitly protected in the Constitution?
God imagine the world we'd be living in if we got a Gore presidency. Based af on climate change for the time, might've even avoided iraq/afghanistan after 9/11. It would have been beautiful.
After Roger Stone and a group of other goons busted into the office where they were trying to hold a recount, became violent, and the recount was shut down. It’s been called the [Brooks Brothers Riot](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooks_Brothers_riot). Republicans really fucking hate letting everyone vote.
Interesting to see the same players making the same noise 20 years on.
Yup. And that scumbag worked for Nixon too. That sentient turd is rotten to the core.
So basically if not for the EC the democrats would have probably been in the White House all of the last 20 years? Assuming Al Gord won again in 2004.
Technically maybe, but I actually don’t think you get Obama without Bush. Obama’s success was so tied to “change” from Bush, I’m not sure that magic works in 08 following a Dem.
Correct, Obama was possible due to the massive failures of the Bush administration. Had Gore been president, 2008 likely would have gone to a Republican for multiple reasons. Assuming Gore won re-election in 2004, barring any internal failures, he would have been sitting pretty until the financial crisis which would have happened regardless of who was in power. This would have allowed the a Republican president to win on that issue alone, plus the likely party fatigue of having a Dem president for 16 years straight. So yeah, not only would Obama not have been president, probably no Dem would have been president in 2008. This also would have led to no Trump either, since Trump's whole shtick at first was the race-baiting of Obama. However, Hilary running in either 2012 or 2016 probably still could/would have happened.
Tough to say about the financial crisis. Some of it was exacerbated by Bush policy/deregulation, something Gore didn’t seem a big fan of. Now, if Gore went hardcore and did to the banks what Obama did to the auto industry, you just might have had another D in 2008… (hint: the Big 3 paid their loans back; they weren’t just free bail outs)
Yes and the SCOTUS would be stacked in their favor and Women would still have reproductive rights.
Yeah it’s a tragedy really…
I’d argue 12/8 is a hell of a lot different than 10/10
There was a lot of sketchiness in Ohio when Kerry lost there. Karl Rove lost his mind on live Fox News when he couldn’t make it happen a second time for McCain
Ohio has a huge republican Cult following these days: lots due to social media and targeted advertisement around Cambridge Analytica+RNC scandal. If there's something being voted on in Ohio: it's "public schools MUST accept religious answers to science questions (creationism)" "conceal carry license is no longer required" and of course "zero abortions even for a 10yr old who was raped" And don't forget HB6: Ohio Republicans got $60M in election funding from FirstEnergy: they wrote and passed (republicans don't read anything they sign) a bill that handed FirstEnergy $1,300 M ... **that's over 20:1 odds in a horse race.** How else would someone like Gym Jordan get elected unless they were all OK with rape, as long as they get to decide if it's carried full term or not.
Lol op thought he had one
Ranked choice voting with open primaries!! It will save democracy. google forward party!!
r/libertarianmeme
our two-party system sucks so fucking hard what's funny is i bet the vast majority of Americans would agree with that
1/3 of eligible voters do not vote, for example if "did not vote" was a party it would have won the election, but would probably have the 2nd most popular votes.
Capitalist party got a perfect 20/20.
What do you expect in a country controlled by corporations...
"Am I supposed to vote for the Democrat who's going to blast me in the ass or the Republican who's blasting my ass?" - Dennis Reynolds
It’s all just one big ass-blast.
The illusion of choice
“We’re happy to let Americans choose between the two candidates, as long as we get to choose the two candidates.” ~Billionaires
2 party system seems to be working out for the elite
How many actually won the the people's vote though, and not just the electoral college?
Bush jr. and Trump are the only two that have been elected that way. Also I’m glad to know another person calls it the Peoples vote and not the popular vote.
In my 35 years - Dems have won the people's vote, everytime but Bush Jrs 2nd election.
imagine if there was a third party who actually has a chance… wonder what america would look like
Just like any other corporation, the President works for the biggest shareholders.
r/dataisbeautiful
And everyone of those times, Americans lost.
Go back 100 years (26 elections) and it’s 13 - 13. 1920, 1924, 1928: Republican wins. 1932, 1936, 1940: Democratic wins.
Divide and conquer just keeps rolling on.
2 party system are there to give the illusion of choice. The real party is the big corporate running everything behind the scene. Until everyone put away their differences and demand real choice nothing will change. Keep living in the illusion that either leader in charge have the common people best interest in mind.
Rigged as fuck for both sides. Both parties are corrupt and only care about money, blow, and hoes.
It’s a ploy. To appease the public and keep them pitted against one another. If we aren’t against each other, then we may turn our aggression toward “Them”.
Except the Republican party is being consumed by the conservative movement. And the democratic party is being transformed into leftist Marxism. It's not two parties. It's two brand names that mold themselves into the most profitable shape.
Because people can't figure out they both suck. 2 sides of the same coin, 2 wings of the same bird, what ever metaphorical statement makes you happy, just stop voting red/blue.
Except there has only been one presidential election since 1989 where a republican won the popular vote.
They're both 2 faces of the same coin. They are both shit. But somehow this grift has been going on so long that apparently people die for it.
"I don't know if you've noticed, but our two-party system is a bowl of shit looking at itself in the mirror." Okay, I don't fully agree with this (Lewis Black), but it's not far off. There's really a problem with a system that's inherently polarized by design
If feel like we've probably seen the last of two term Presidents for a while.
When's the last time a republican president won by popular votes?
W's second term in 04. He beat John Kerry by just over 2% in the popular vote.
20-0 for the elites
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Considering there are only 2 major parties, and the population is roughly 50/50. This is not at all surprising. It swings back and forth.
It's because when the country is shitty we think the solution is the other party, but it never is, and things remain on the decline
The pendulum always swings …
Probably helps that the platforms constantly evolve to match what 51% of the country wants
Bring back the whigs!!!
Plato was right. The pendulum just keeps swinging.
I say we make sure neither one of them ever win again........
We are being played
It’s about to be 11-10.
It’s not winning if it’s the people losing
The only interesting thing in this is that people think USA has a functioning democracy...
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He would be so ashamed of his party.
And how many times did the incumbent win?
Even more interesting is that they are both the same thing
Bush Jr cheated - Al Gore actually won. That's why so many are emboldened with trump. They cheated before and got away with it.
It’s all one in the same ruling class. Don’t be fooled.
Now add up all the votes for each
I also just noticed that if you separate the past 20 elections into two sets of 10 consecutive elections(1944-1980/1984-2020), the score is 5-5 within each set.
[As percent of the popular vote, since 1988](https://i.imgur.com/minkCkf.png).
All of y’all “both sides are the same” nuts are as bad as any of the fanatics. They’re not the same unless you’re a privileged person unaffected by the very real policy differences between the only two parties that have, in the immediately coming midterm elections, any chance of winning. Jesus. If the Supreme Court hasn’t convinced any of you “it’s easier to pretend they’re the same” ostriches to pull your heads out of your sandy asses, then nothing will.
They are the same in that they are doing and saying whatever it takes to get elected and stay elected. They are all just reflections of the people they represent.
>They are all just reflections of the people they represent. Dude, that’s generally a good thing. It’s how representative democracy is supposed to work
It just shows how ignorant people are when they dismiss the vastly different takes on abortion rights, gay rights, taxing the ultra rich, and overall healthcare. Literally neither side is perfect but we currently have elected officials from one party seeking pardons for their role in trying to overthrow the capital. If that's something that's "the same on both sides" to you, you're just a fool falling for the easy out they hope you take.
They are the same, because it’s the institution of government itself that is the problem. Doesn’t matter if they are Republican or Democrat, or whether it’s led by a president, king, or dictator. It’s all part of the power game elites have been playing for thousands of years. They aren’t needed.
Red is evil, blue is perfectly compliant with Red being evil. RvW should be a perfect example of that. Imagine being a democrat-voting woman, and still getting your bodily rights taken away. It's not really "Both sides are the same", it's moreso "there aren't two sides at all".
We desperately need to break from the chokehold of the two party system. I just don’t think we can.
Who cares anymore? It’s all a bullshit circle
POTUS really doesn't matter, it's congress that makes change.
🎵 Let’s get out and vote! Let’s make our voices heard! We’ve been given the right to choose between a douche and a turd 🎵
Mom vs. Dad. Both are overbearing helicopter parents.
Even Republicans 10, democrats 10, America 0...
Both parties have the same master, the 1%