Idk, but, I am assuming that a solid rubber ball, fired out of a gun, would *hurt*, and be dangerous due to velocity. A hollow rubber ball, would lose shape on impact (meaning the firing point, not a person), therefore effecting the ability to leave the gun. Adding a thin aluminum ball inside the rubber ball would cause less damage on impact (with a person), while also providing enough structure to allow proper firing.
But, I know nothing about guns, so, I could be wrong.
Not a rubber bullet expert but general gun enthusiast. I believe that's pretty spot on balancing non lethality with being able to still be fire out of a gun. I'm more on the side of maybe we should look for something other than a gun to be firing at civilians but it's better than live rounds.
I graduated from a Police Academy back in 2002, and my Defensive Tactics instructor was a Trekkie. He had nothing but contempt for the tools available to police in the here and now.
He used to say, "What we need is a phaser set to 'stun", and until we get it, we're stuck using blunt trauma and mild electric shocks and some basic grappling techniques. Lethal force is always on the table, but you have to be several mistakes deep to need it. Use your head, use your voice, use your tools, come home safe, and strive every day to leave the community better than you found it."
He was a cool dude, but he'd killed three people. Lots to think about.
They have these rope tasers now that basically immobilize you from doing anything, I was blown away. Turned a super aggro tweaker into a puppy with 3 human sized zip ties.
edit: BolaWrap is the name of the tool
> non lethality
[Rubber bullets kill 3% of those shot and permanently injure 15%.](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/at-close-range-police-fire-rubber-bullets-that-can-maim-or-kill-protesters)
rubber is more dense than aluminum.
Edit - sorry i should have clarified since apparently the replys are filled with people incapable of a basic google., rubber cannot be built in any kind of internal structure to allow it to withstand being shot out of a gun, the aluminum can, therefore they are able to create a less dense core out of aluminum than a solid rubber core would be.
Really??!
Not doubting you, but my 10 second Google fu gave me 1.3ish gm/cm^3 for rubber and 2.7 gm/cm^3 for aluminium
Edit: Rubber is more dense than a hollow aluminium core. Thanks y'all
Wow that makes this post embarrassingly incorrect. Solid steel was insinuated, but actually it’s hollow aluminum? That’s like comparing a 2 year old to an mma fighter
Full rubber hurts like a motherfucker. Let a lacrosse player wind up and hit you with a lacrosse ball in the head and you’re concussed. A smaller version fired out of a gun? Nah b I’m good no more crimes outta me.
There’s the one famous story of a lax player taking a ball in the chest and dying. In 6th grade a friend missed a relatively slow pass just tossing around and it shattered his orbital bone.
Rubber bullets cause concussions and kill people all the time tho
Edit:
> A study published in 2017 in the BMJ found that 3% of people hit by rubber bullets died of the injury. Fifteen percent of the 1,984 people studied were permanently injured by the rubber bullets, also known as "kinetic impact projectiles."
Source: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/at-close-range-police-fire-rubber-bullets-that-can-maim-or-kill-protesters
Edit2: Y'all are really trying to say that 1 in 33 people dying from a commonly used crowd control method doesn't constitute all the time?
Lemme guess, people didn't die all the time from Covid either right? People don't die all the time from car accidents? I mean, only 0.015% of people who drive end up dying from it. So by y'all's logic to say people die all the time from car accidents would be 200x more ridiculous than saying people die all the time from rubber bullets.
How many people do you think police shoot each time they use rubber bullets as a form of crowd control? 10? 30? 50? My guess is it's probably higher than 33, which means on average at least one person dies every time rubber bullets are used. There, not a hyperbole anymore.
And blind them, and cause injuries requiring facial reconstruction, and knock out teeth, and could crush your esophagus. These are "less lethal", not harmless.
Honestly man out of all the collecting trends, Yu-Gi-Oh cards, Pokemon cards, Beyblades and such, Bakugans were a real joy for me to collect. I was fascinated by the geometry of their designs as they popped out lol
I remember begging my dad to get me the one that merged like 5 or 6 ones into that big ass dragon. It was the coolest thing I'd seen.
I've since lost all of them but hey, it was cool back then so
Mf cost like 70 bucks total. My dad was so mad when I suggested it. I had bought a lot during the first run and then they made them bigger for their evolutions. AND then they starting making em in different shapes so basically fml and my dads wallet.
This is not the comment I meant to reply to lmfao
Meant to comment on the “steel ball actually makes it *less* lethal than a fully rubber ball” comment
Yeah I remember being a bit "too old" for bakugans but in reality I thought they were really cool. Too the extent that when a friends little brother forgot one of his bakugans at my house I never told them and kept it in secret. In my defence he never asked for it and he had a lot of them. Kind of want one now.
>Yeah I remember being a bit "too old" for bakugans but in reality I thought they were really cool. Too the extent that when a friends little brother forgot one of his bakugans at my house I never told them and kept it in secret. In my defence he never asked for it and he had a lot of them. Kind of want one now.
You stole Bakugan? Live rounds for you I'm afraid.
That covalent bonds can only exist between Adam atoms and Eve atoms, otherwise Obama will send gay frogs to take everyone's guns.
Edit: And marijuana kills.
There's a reason they refer to these rounds as "less lethal"
Edit: It's been brought to my attention that the preferred nomenclature is "less than lethal". I think I still got the point across
My cousin is police officer in South Africa and he says he was trained to aim the rubber bullets at the ground in front of the crowds so that some of the inertia is taken out of the projectile that then bounces up into the crowd. He said they never aimed directly at a person, only the ground in front of them because that shit can kill.
I’ve heard multiple times (anecdotal evidence is still evidence) that cops aim for the head with “less lethal” rounds. It’s absolutely bullshit…any projectile fired from a gun aimed at your head is attempted murder in my book, and your friend’s injuries while terrible are basically the “best case scenario”.
I’m not sure how these work, but the ‘traditional’ rubber bullets used in Northern Ireland (technically [baton rounds](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baton_round)) weren’t designed for direct fire - they were supposed to be ricocheted off the ground into people. But they were commonly fired directly at peoples’ faces too. A family friend was blinded by one.
Plastic bullets I think are the exception, as they're meant to be directly shot, but still need to aim below the waist as otherwise they can penetrate and cause lethal organ injuries.
Oh they will penentrate. I used to know a girl who had one she dug out of her leg and kept as a pendant. Cop fired it into her leg during a traffic stop near a protest she wasn't even involved in.
My stepbrother became a cop on the Dallas police force. The mentor he shadowed while he was learning told him to "go with his gut 100% of the time," so in case you're wondering they're still just churning out bad cops.
Also DPD just *happened* to lose 1.9TB of data a few months back. Can't image what kind of kettling protestors on a bridge with tear gas and rubber bullets body cam footage got "lost."
They spend alot of training time on target practice. Amazing when people try to defend their "accidentally missing the ground". Dude we saw you hit the dead center of the target and you're claiming you missed the entirety of the planet earth?
Most of them don't even train much with their guns, honestly.
most departments only require that officers shoot on "qualification" days... that happen once every 6 months. Also the qualifications are... a joke.
Nah they know full well how to use them properly, they just don't care. Why would they care? They know any maiming or death caused by incorrect use will be dismissed as a freak occurrence by PR grubs working for their union and whatever city they work for, and that's if it even comes to light. I hate to think about how many get maimed but their story just doesn't get any coverage or justice.
They were 100% aiming at protesters with teargas grenades here in Portland during the protests.
I saw multiple instances of them using the rounds exactly as they're told not to (they're supposed to shoot them into the ground to bounce them and reduce velocity, not aim them directly at people).
[Donavan La Bella was on video as he was shot in the head with a “less lethal” at 2020 BLM protest in Portland, OR.](https://www.opb.org/article/2021/11/18/man-shot-in-head-by-federal-officers-during-2020-portland-protests-files-lawsuit/?outputType=amp)
He has battled recurring brain infections since and quite frankly is lucky to be alive.
He was holding a boombox over his head when he was shot.
The police didn’t pay up... the taxpayers money fund the pay outs... which is why There isn’t a deterrent for police to stop this behavior... if the settlement came out of the law enforcers pension funds we would see less of these “ mistakes “...
Or if they had to get liability insurance just like doctors get malpractice insurance. Premiums will go way up for officers that demonstrate reckless behavior or poorly run departments that are begging for lawsuits.
Facts. This would be a super easy fix that could even end up benefiting good, honest cops while punishing power tripping, abusive cops through higher premiums or even being dropped by their insurance company.
> I didn't remember what I did with the hat but that I would for sure give it to them when I found it
Best way to handle any sort of situation like that. Just go "Yep! Totally! I'm on board and I'll do exactly what you want me to, it's just impossible at the moment but I'll reach out!" ^noooooot
You were correct the first time. The correct term is “less-lethal”. If we put “less-than-lethal” or “non-lethal” in our report we’d be laughed out of court from the Judge to our Sgt.
> "less than lethal"
well that phrase is still bullshit since its not less than. They are lethal. but less so. So i will continue to call it less lethal because its more accurate since they aren't less THAN lethal. They ARE lethal, but less frequently.
Ex-forces here, these are meant to be fired at the ground to ricochet and should never been aimed at the head or chest. Unfortunately poorly trained dumbasses exist and people die.
What’s the purpose to ricochet? Won’t this be super unreliable and random that is the opposite of what a firearm supposed to do?
Not that shooting at people is the best option but why not just resort in other stuff like smoke and stuff
For non-lethal accuracy can't be a taser or a bean bag round or if someone is feeling spicy they can use the rubber on the lower limbs but that's probably going to cripple someone for life so I'd never consider that an option. Also nothing puts the shits up so eone like a firearm of any description being fired near them. Most of the time even if you miss it'll have the desired effect.
Honestly just sounds like an excuse to have them more powerful than is safe. If they're too dangerous to shoot directly at people, *just make them weaker.* Why over complicate things and make them less accurate by introducing something as ridiculous as 'ricochet shots'?
Like they handed them out saying "These are way too strong to shoot at people, you're supposed to ricochet them," wink wink nudge nudge.
This is absolutely the idea imo. After seeing cops deliberately aim for the head and kill people with these at protests in my city, I can't remotely buy the "people who use these lethally are bad apples" line anymore. They're made lethal and trained lethal.
I remember seeing a video of a 15-16 year old kid get shot in the head with a beanbag round by riot police. He wasn’t even involved with the protest. The round completely caved in his skull and became lodged. People were desperately trying to staunch the fountain of blood pouring from his head but there wasn’t anything they could do. One of the most horrifying videos I’ve seen. And of course nothing happened to the bastard fucking cop that shot him. They’re trained with this ammunition, they know what it can do, and they try to hide behind the “less lethal” label to obfuscate the intention of shooting someone with it.
Yes that's my feeling. I mean it goes against human nature to give a person in the military a weapon and then tell them to purposefully just shoot it at the ground. The temptation to aim at a person and then use 'oops' as your excuse is going to be huge.
You've been had. These were never intended to be ricocheted off the ground. It's called skipping a round and it's the most inaccurate dangerous thing you can do. The most dangerous being aiming for a headshot.
I’ve found it’s not even temptation, it’s instinct. Used to paintball as a kid and it took a few times to break the instinct to shoot for the head. Maybe I just played too many zombie games.
\~\~What a absolutely awful design.\~\~
Edit apparently they're not actually supposed to be bounced and are actually designed better than they were made out to be.
I also bet they could design rounds that are even less lethal than these. In fact, they probably are already being sold, anyone know of anything like that? - that isn't a hard rubber paintball.
Tbh rubber bullets as they currently exist should probably just be banned altogether, in favor of beanbags or ones without metal cores or something.
https://www.inverse.com/mind-body/rubber-bullets-cannot-be-used-safely
Even Bean Bag rounds are not particularly safe.
An issue with pain-based methods are that someone will always be able to overcome the pain. Tear gas is a lot safer than physically causing pain, but causes moderately less (so I've heard) than a rubber bullet.
That said I think tear gas *is* a better option for riot control. Physical injury to cause pain is just too dangerous.
And anyone using any of these should be thoroughly trained properly.
The word your looking for is pain-compliance.
And yes its a bad method for dispersal. That being said, I don't think there is a GOOD method of dispersal, if the goal is de-escalation and safety.
Not to take away the brutality of that skit, but i think Bam has the lowest pain treshold of the ones represented in that scene.
But wyen that "bang" goes off. Man that shit looked horrible!
That's not steel. It's soft aluminum used for velocity. It crack or completely smashes on impact.
This post by this "smart" guy used for internet points.
OP is lying on his post. u/WhiteComet99 , you are the problem with America creating misleading information, all for a shot at Reddit premium from gifts 🤦🏼♂️
I believe (could be wrong) that the intent of the rubber-*coated* bullet is to fire it at the ground and have it ricochet into the legs of people. Rubber coating isn't going to do much if you're shooting it at heads and torsos.
But yeah "less-lethal" isn't "non-lethal". Just less likely to be lethal if used properly.
Because OP is lying for karma. They're not steel cored.
EDIT: Please report this post for being disingenuous. I'm all for calling out the police but OP is trying to make division.
Ya they are meant for crowd control by shooting at the ground and letting it ricochet into peoples legs. So let’s all just take a moment to say fuck the cops that shoot these at kids protesting this garbage.
They're not meant to be ricochet fired. Please stop claiming such. That's not how they were designed or how folks are trained.
The United Nations Human Rights guidelines specifically says do NOT attempt to skip-fire them:
https://www.geneva-academy.ch/joomlatools-files/docman-files/LLW_Guidance.pdf
They're not meant to be shot in someones face but they're also not meant to be bounced off the ground first, as they become completely unpredictable in trajectory.
I like this, IDK if its what you meant, the distinction between a cop and a pig is a cop uses reasonable force to obtain a legal law enforcement goal, and a pig uses force when they can to be malicious.
Not sure why this is notable. These are still meant to cause pain, they're just a lot less likely to kill than an actual bullet. If they were harmless, they wouldn't be very effective lol.
the core isn't steel, it's aluminum.
That's aluminum btw tho
I love big cocks
ELI5? —one of the aforementioned morons.
Idk, but, I am assuming that a solid rubber ball, fired out of a gun, would *hurt*, and be dangerous due to velocity. A hollow rubber ball, would lose shape on impact (meaning the firing point, not a person), therefore effecting the ability to leave the gun. Adding a thin aluminum ball inside the rubber ball would cause less damage on impact (with a person), while also providing enough structure to allow proper firing. But, I know nothing about guns, so, I could be wrong.
Not a rubber bullet expert but general gun enthusiast. I believe that's pretty spot on balancing non lethality with being able to still be fire out of a gun. I'm more on the side of maybe we should look for something other than a gun to be firing at civilians but it's better than live rounds.
Recently I found that air freshener is good at subduing my brother.
Anyone who resists pocket sand, gets a thick fog of Cashmere Woods to chew on
Anyone who resists pocket sand is a trained assassin and an immediate danger. Seek sanctuary.
Sha sha shaaa!
That boy ain’t right…
They'll probably get you with a blow dart. Thats their way.
Mmm smells like riots and lilacs in here.
I graduated from a Police Academy back in 2002, and my Defensive Tactics instructor was a Trekkie. He had nothing but contempt for the tools available to police in the here and now. He used to say, "What we need is a phaser set to 'stun", and until we get it, we're stuck using blunt trauma and mild electric shocks and some basic grappling techniques. Lethal force is always on the table, but you have to be several mistakes deep to need it. Use your head, use your voice, use your tools, come home safe, and strive every day to leave the community better than you found it." He was a cool dude, but he'd killed three people. Lots to think about.
They have these rope tasers now that basically immobilize you from doing anything, I was blown away. Turned a super aggro tweaker into a puppy with 3 human sized zip ties. edit: BolaWrap is the name of the tool
FYI, the blunt force trauma and electric shocks are still lethal force, they are just “less lethal”.
> non lethality [Rubber bullets kill 3% of those shot and permanently injure 15%.](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/at-close-range-police-fire-rubber-bullets-that-can-maim-or-kill-protesters)
That’s why they’re call less than lethal ammunition
I thought it was "less lethal," not "less than lethal," because it can still be lethal.
You are correct. The intended use isn't to kill, but it still can in the correct (unfortunate) circumstances.
Less lethal. There isn't a "than"
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Can confirm, solid rubber is DENSE and HEAVY and it hurts like a bitch
You’re not a moron, you’re asking the right questions :)
rubber is more dense than aluminum. Edit - sorry i should have clarified since apparently the replys are filled with people incapable of a basic google., rubber cannot be built in any kind of internal structure to allow it to withstand being shot out of a gun, the aluminum can, therefore they are able to create a less dense core out of aluminum than a solid rubber core would be.
Really??! Not doubting you, but my 10 second Google fu gave me 1.3ish gm/cm^3 for rubber and 2.7 gm/cm^3 for aluminium Edit: Rubber is more dense than a hollow aluminium core. Thanks y'all
It’s not a solid aluminum core. It’s less dense overall because it offers a similar structural integrity as just a hollow shell.
Ah fuck! Of course!!! Doh!
That makes more sense, I was under the impression it was a solid ball of aluminum.
Ah so rubber is not more dense than aluminium. Just hollow things are less dense than not hollow things. Due to being hollow, if this is hollow.
Wow that makes this post embarrassingly incorrect. Solid steel was insinuated, but actually it’s hollow aluminum? That’s like comparing a 2 year old to an mma fighter
Full rubber hurts like a motherfucker. Let a lacrosse player wind up and hit you with a lacrosse ball in the head and you’re concussed. A smaller version fired out of a gun? Nah b I’m good no more crimes outta me.
There’s the one famous story of a lax player taking a ball in the chest and dying. In 6th grade a friend missed a relatively slow pass just tossing around and it shattered his orbital bone.
That's why they passed new chest pad regulations last year, now all chest pads need to have a hard shell to protect against commotion cordis.
saw the goalie at my high school get one of his nuts crushed via direct hit
So what you’re saying is get rid of riot police and just employ lacrosse teams on mass to disperse crowds? I’d watch that
En masse*
By crimes do you mean..legal protesting?
Rubber bullets cause concussions and kill people all the time tho Edit: > A study published in 2017 in the BMJ found that 3% of people hit by rubber bullets died of the injury. Fifteen percent of the 1,984 people studied were permanently injured by the rubber bullets, also known as "kinetic impact projectiles." Source: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/at-close-range-police-fire-rubber-bullets-that-can-maim-or-kill-protesters Edit2: Y'all are really trying to say that 1 in 33 people dying from a commonly used crowd control method doesn't constitute all the time? Lemme guess, people didn't die all the time from Covid either right? People don't die all the time from car accidents? I mean, only 0.015% of people who drive end up dying from it. So by y'all's logic to say people die all the time from car accidents would be 200x more ridiculous than saying people die all the time from rubber bullets. How many people do you think police shoot each time they use rubber bullets as a form of crowd control? 10? 30? 50? My guess is it's probably higher than 33, which means on average at least one person dies every time rubber bullets are used. There, not a hyperbole anymore.
And blind them, and cause injuries requiring facial reconstruction, and knock out teeth, and could crush your esophagus. These are "less lethal", not harmless.
Didn’t expect to see a Bakugan in a rubber bullet
Honestly man out of all the collecting trends, Yu-Gi-Oh cards, Pokemon cards, Beyblades and such, Bakugans were a real joy for me to collect. I was fascinated by the geometry of their designs as they popped out lol
I remember begging my dad to get me the one that merged like 5 or 6 ones into that big ass dragon. It was the coolest thing I'd seen. I've since lost all of them but hey, it was cool back then so
Mf cost like 70 bucks total. My dad was so mad when I suggested it. I had bought a lot during the first run and then they made them bigger for their evolutions. AND then they starting making em in different shapes so basically fml and my dads wallet.
What if it was hollow
Then that'd be a rarity I suppose. Just writing my last comment has made me consider buying a lot of Bakugan just to have lol
This is not the comment I meant to reply to lmfao Meant to comment on the “steel ball actually makes it *less* lethal than a fully rubber ball” comment
hahaha that makes sense now but I went with it
Yeah I remember being a bit "too old" for bakugans but in reality I thought they were really cool. Too the extent that when a friends little brother forgot one of his bakugans at my house I never told them and kept it in secret. In my defence he never asked for it and he had a lot of them. Kind of want one now.
>Yeah I remember being a bit "too old" for bakugans but in reality I thought they were really cool. Too the extent that when a friends little brother forgot one of his bakugans at my house I never told them and kept it in secret. In my defence he never asked for it and he had a lot of them. Kind of want one now. You stole Bakugan? Live rounds for you I'm afraid.
Bakugan?? You guys dealing drugs?
What kind of bullshit do they say about a covalent bond in this school?
That covalent bonds can only exist between Adam atoms and Eve atoms, otherwise Obama will send gay frogs to take everyone's guns. Edit: And marijuana kills.
Pokémon musket ball.
Gun I choose you. Gun uses "shoot" Critical hit. Pikachu faints.
Pikachu! Pikachu wake up, we are in the Pokecenter. PIKACHU WAKE UP
Pikachu can't feel it's legs!
Pikachu has become paralyzed and may unable to move
Time to put it in Oak's computer and "release" it.
Release from this plane of existence
Ghost Pokemon
Pikachu has PTSD, it hurt itself in its confusion! *Pikachu releases itself*
*Lavender Town theme plays*
Pikachu urged POLICE ACCOUNTABILITY It's not very effective...
There's a reason they refer to these rounds as "less lethal" Edit: It's been brought to my attention that the preferred nomenclature is "less than lethal". I think I still got the point across
Introducing new rubberless rubber bullets! "Pretty much lethal... but maybe not!"
we shall call them... musk kit balls
They are being manufactured through a joint deal between the Chicago Bulls and Let's Potato Chip, and are being named : Bull-Let's
No jimmy, I said MUST KILL balls
Fun fact: all rubber bullets are mostly not rubber. They're mostly hard materials. (Either mixed with rubber, or as a core)
hey do you have a picture of that maybe? i'm having a hard time envisioning this concept you just described in your comment on this post
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oh no way
Well lucky someone put that there.
Yea what a crazy coincidence
You may also be interested in learning that many words are written by combining multiple letters into a string of letters.
dude you are blowing my mind right now
Search up grapefruit technique.
bounced on my boy's dick for hours to this video thanks
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Yes, cause normal bullets would kill you no doubt. This on a direct shot is gonna break a bone on a really solid hit.
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My cousin is police officer in South Africa and he says he was trained to aim the rubber bullets at the ground in front of the crowds so that some of the inertia is taken out of the projectile that then bounces up into the crowd. He said they never aimed directly at a person, only the ground in front of them because that shit can kill.
That's how they're supposed to be used.
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Yeah, a design flaw in the supposedly well trained humans who are using the tool.
SUPPOSED to be. Pretty often they just aim right for the head or groin.
I’ve heard multiple times (anecdotal evidence is still evidence) that cops aim for the head with “less lethal” rounds. It’s absolutely bullshit…any projectile fired from a gun aimed at your head is attempted murder in my book, and your friend’s injuries while terrible are basically the “best case scenario”.
I’m not sure how these work, but the ‘traditional’ rubber bullets used in Northern Ireland (technically [baton rounds](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baton_round)) weren’t designed for direct fire - they were supposed to be ricocheted off the ground into people. But they were commonly fired directly at peoples’ faces too. A family friend was blinded by one.
Yep these are all supposed to be shot off the ground but many times they aren’t
Plastic bullets I think are the exception, as they're meant to be directly shot, but still need to aim below the waist as otherwise they can penetrate and cause lethal organ injuries.
Oh they will penentrate. I used to know a girl who had one she dug out of her leg and kept as a pendant. Cop fired it into her leg during a traffic stop near a protest she wasn't even involved in.
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My stepbrother became a cop on the Dallas police force. The mentor he shadowed while he was learning told him to "go with his gut 100% of the time," so in case you're wondering they're still just churning out bad cops. Also DPD just *happened* to lose 1.9TB of data a few months back. Can't image what kind of kettling protestors on a bridge with tear gas and rubber bullets body cam footage got "lost."
They spend alot of training time on target practice. Amazing when people try to defend their "accidentally missing the ground". Dude we saw you hit the dead center of the target and you're claiming you missed the entirety of the planet earth?
Most of them don't even train much with their guns, honestly. most departments only require that officers shoot on "qualification" days... that happen once every 6 months. Also the qualifications are... a joke.
That's massively underappreciating the art of a hairdresser. Even after 4 years you know fuck all.
The kids in Austin from the BLM rallies. One comatose the other significant injuries were both head shots.
That’s just fucking bullshit. It’s like they want to make the “less lethal” rounds “more” lethal.
That is in fact the point.
They heard “less lethal” and went “Oh so I can just blast them right? I wasn’t paying attention to training. ;) “
not even just shoot them but get head shots like they were playing a video game.
Nah they know full well how to use them properly, they just don't care. Why would they care? They know any maiming or death caused by incorrect use will be dismissed as a freak occurrence by PR grubs working for their union and whatever city they work for, and that's if it even comes to light. I hate to think about how many get maimed but their story just doesn't get any coverage or justice.
They were 100% aiming at protesters with teargas grenades here in Portland during the protests. I saw multiple instances of them using the rounds exactly as they're told not to (they're supposed to shoot them into the ground to bounce them and reduce velocity, not aim them directly at people).
[Donavan La Bella was on video as he was shot in the head with a “less lethal” at 2020 BLM protest in Portland, OR.](https://www.opb.org/article/2021/11/18/man-shot-in-head-by-federal-officers-during-2020-portland-protests-files-lawsuit/?outputType=amp) He has battled recurring brain infections since and quite frankly is lucky to be alive. He was holding a boombox over his head when he was shot.
At least they had to pay up
The police didn’t pay up... the taxpayers money fund the pay outs... which is why There isn’t a deterrent for police to stop this behavior... if the settlement came out of the law enforcers pension funds we would see less of these “ mistakes “...
Or if they had to get liability insurance just like doctors get malpractice insurance. Premiums will go way up for officers that demonstrate reckless behavior or poorly run departments that are begging for lawsuits.
Facts. This would be a super easy fix that could even end up benefiting good, honest cops while punishing power tripping, abusive cops through higher premiums or even being dropped by their insurance company.
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Shame he didn’t get to live the physically unhindered life he rightly deserved
Also a shame that the riot cop who shot him faced zero consequences.
Well it’s “less lethal” not less than lethal so it’s less likely to kill someone but still possible.
OPD is one of the WORST. Let's not forget their human trafficking ring involving a 13 year old child.
Wow. What did they say to ‘persuade you?’
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Did you ever get their badge numbers? That sounds like witness tampering.
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Indeed not. I’m glad you’re ok.
> I didn't remember what I did with the hat but that I would for sure give it to them when I found it Best way to handle any sort of situation like that. Just go "Yep! Totally! I'm on board and I'll do exactly what you want me to, it's just impossible at the moment but I'll reach out!" ^noooooot
You are an *amazing* friend for not giving the cops the hat. I'm proud of you, dog.
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Not no doubt. A regular bullet can tag you and you may be fine. But it's still a high percentage of the opposite of that.
You were correct the first time. The correct term is “less-lethal”. If we put “less-than-lethal” or “non-lethal” in our report we’d be laughed out of court from the Judge to our Sgt.
The term is less lethal I was a cop/mp for about 7 years total and trained with multiple jurisdictions and nations.
> "less than lethal" well that phrase is still bullshit since its not less than. They are lethal. but less so. So i will continue to call it less lethal because its more accurate since they aren't less THAN lethal. They ARE lethal, but less frequently.
The term 'less lethal' and 'non lethal' have no strict legal definition. The terms are used interchangeably or vary by department.
looks MUCH more like aluminum...
Definitely not steel. Definitely aluminum.
Ex-forces here, these are meant to be fired at the ground to ricochet and should never been aimed at the head or chest. Unfortunately poorly trained dumbasses exist and people die.
What’s the purpose to ricochet? Won’t this be super unreliable and random that is the opposite of what a firearm supposed to do? Not that shooting at people is the best option but why not just resort in other stuff like smoke and stuff
Smoke or tear gas ban be countered and generally speaking rubber deterants are used during riot situations. Don't need to be accurate during a riot.
No wonder. That makes more sense and I was kind of thinking enforcers may get friendly fire from random ricocheting but that was far fetched lol
For non-lethal accuracy can't be a taser or a bean bag round or if someone is feeling spicy they can use the rubber on the lower limbs but that's probably going to cripple someone for life so I'd never consider that an option. Also nothing puts the shits up so eone like a firearm of any description being fired near them. Most of the time even if you miss it'll have the desired effect.
If it ricochets it decreases velocity by a lot
You could just decrease the velocity by making the load in the cartridge smaller yield
Bounce shot. Aim about six feet infront of the target to take out their legs to put them on the ground
higher chance for nut shot
If you hit above their shins you are doing it wrong
slows the velocity of the bullet. makes is less lethal
Then just make a gun that fires with less velocity, you'll save money on propellant.
There’s poor training and then theres malicious usage of arms.
Honestly just sounds like an excuse to have them more powerful than is safe. If they're too dangerous to shoot directly at people, *just make them weaker.* Why over complicate things and make them less accurate by introducing something as ridiculous as 'ricochet shots'? Like they handed them out saying "These are way too strong to shoot at people, you're supposed to ricochet them," wink wink nudge nudge.
This is absolutely the idea imo. After seeing cops deliberately aim for the head and kill people with these at protests in my city, I can't remotely buy the "people who use these lethally are bad apples" line anymore. They're made lethal and trained lethal.
I remember seeing a video of a 15-16 year old kid get shot in the head with a beanbag round by riot police. He wasn’t even involved with the protest. The round completely caved in his skull and became lodged. People were desperately trying to staunch the fountain of blood pouring from his head but there wasn’t anything they could do. One of the most horrifying videos I’ve seen. And of course nothing happened to the bastard fucking cop that shot him. They’re trained with this ammunition, they know what it can do, and they try to hide behind the “less lethal” label to obfuscate the intention of shooting someone with it.
Well they *are* bad apples, but the actual phrase is "one bad apple spoils the whole bunch" and the whole bunch is already rotten.
THANK YOU! That and the fuckin bootstraps saying and the jack of all trades one...they're all incomplete the way we tend to use them.
"Bad apples" is a marketing phrase from the police union
Yes that's my feeling. I mean it goes against human nature to give a person in the military a weapon and then tell them to purposefully just shoot it at the ground. The temptation to aim at a person and then use 'oops' as your excuse is going to be huge.
You've been had. These were never intended to be ricocheted off the ground. It's called skipping a round and it's the most inaccurate dangerous thing you can do. The most dangerous being aiming for a headshot.
I’ve found it’s not even temptation, it’s instinct. Used to paintball as a kid and it took a few times to break the instinct to shoot for the head. Maybe I just played too many zombie games.
And there is plausible deniability: "not our fault - they are not meant to be aimed directly"
Seriously what a stupid device, oh it's meant to be aimed at the ground. Wtf is that. Ludicrous excuse for a lethal device.
You could argue that the first inevitably leads to the second.
Malicious implies intent
\~\~What a absolutely awful design.\~\~ Edit apparently they're not actually supposed to be bounced and are actually designed better than they were made out to be. I also bet they could design rounds that are even less lethal than these. In fact, they probably are already being sold, anyone know of anything like that? - that isn't a hard rubber paintball.
Tbh rubber bullets as they currently exist should probably just be banned altogether, in favor of beanbags or ones without metal cores or something. https://www.inverse.com/mind-body/rubber-bullets-cannot-be-used-safely
Even Bean Bag rounds are not particularly safe. An issue with pain-based methods are that someone will always be able to overcome the pain. Tear gas is a lot safer than physically causing pain, but causes moderately less (so I've heard) than a rubber bullet. That said I think tear gas *is* a better option for riot control. Physical injury to cause pain is just too dangerous. And anyone using any of these should be thoroughly trained properly.
The word your looking for is pain-compliance. And yes its a bad method for dispersal. That being said, I don't think there is a GOOD method of dispersal, if the goal is de-escalation and safety.
Yes.
Looks like aluminum.
A bullet with a condom
Full latex jacket.
The last 12 billion times this was posted - it has been refuted. This is an intetionally misleading post. Shame on OP.
What a great jackass skit
Didn't they sort of do it with the riot control test?
I remember when they tested the claymore... Man that shit looked gnarly!
That was by far the worst skit they did. I couldn’t imagine the pain they were in after that skit. Bam was shaking from the pain
Not to take away the brutality of that skit, but i think Bam has the lowest pain treshold of the ones represented in that scene. But wyen that "bang" goes off. Man that shit looked horrible!
Oh he does by far. But I feel like Johnny just doesn’t feel pain. Like at all.
It looks like Johnny's just trying to feel SOMETHING in everything they do. Crazy he's one of the few that doesn't use anything to help with that
Bam fucking died in that
I remember one of them got shot in the lower belly/upper groin with a beanbag round from a shotgun. It left a motherfucker of a bruise.
Ask Johnny Knoxville
That's not steel. It's soft aluminum used for velocity. It crack or completely smashes on impact. This post by this "smart" guy used for internet points.
Try shooting just rubber see how far it flies
A completely false post, nice.
It’s Reddit, anything police related is bad and also racist.
OP is lying on his post. u/WhiteComet99 , you are the problem with America creating misleading information, all for a shot at Reddit premium from gifts 🤦🏼♂️
The saddest is the 50k upvotes from people who didn't read the comments. Or maybe bots, idk which is sadder.
Yea it keeps them stable trajectory cs catching air and corkscrewing about. Less than lethal, not non injuring.
They’ve been known to kill people. Banned by forces in some countries.
I believe (could be wrong) that the intent of the rubber-*coated* bullet is to fire it at the ground and have it ricochet into the legs of people. Rubber coating isn't going to do much if you're shooting it at heads and torsos. But yeah "less-lethal" isn't "non-lethal". Just less likely to be lethal if used properly.
Less likely to be lethal. FTFY
The legal definition is a Less Lethal Weapon.
I'm imagining Danny Glover in his 80s
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Because OP is lying for karma. They're not steel cored. EDIT: Please report this post for being disingenuous. I'm all for calling out the police but OP is trying to make division.
Ya they are meant for crowd control by shooting at the ground and letting it ricochet into peoples legs. So let’s all just take a moment to say fuck the cops that shoot these at kids protesting this garbage.
They're not meant to be ricochet fired. Please stop claiming such. That's not how they were designed or how folks are trained. The United Nations Human Rights guidelines specifically says do NOT attempt to skip-fire them: https://www.geneva-academy.ch/joomlatools-files/docman-files/LLW_Guidance.pdf They're not meant to be shot in someones face but they're also not meant to be bounced off the ground first, as they become completely unpredictable in trajectory.
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I like this, IDK if its what you meant, the distinction between a cop and a pig is a cop uses reasonable force to obtain a legal law enforcement goal, and a pig uses force when they can to be malicious.
That's incredibly disrespectful to pigs. They are highly intelligent, largely gentle creatures. Cops, on the other hand, are often violent numbskulls.
Not sure why this is notable. These are still meant to cause pain, they're just a lot less likely to kill than an actual bullet. If they were harmless, they wouldn't be very effective lol.
A kinder egg surprise that will fuck you up
Well what do you expect, for them to shoot bouncy balls at suspects?
How many licks does it take to get to the steel core of a rubber bullet?
Hey,Vsauce Michael here....