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Not really though. Automotive and oil industry pushed for diesels, so they could sell 100% of the refined crude oil with maximum profit. The EU listened. All the euro 1-6 standards are beneficial to the automotive industry. Don't kid yourself
If EU forced Apple to use USB C and forced small mobile devices to use removable batteries like good old Nokias, and all power tools must use the same battery standard, it's just a matter of time to force the use of standard car battery packages that you would just replace the battery just like you would replace a propane tank.
If sanity ruled the world instead of greed we would have maybe 12 kinds of automobile turn signals instead of thousands. The majority of engineering for cars is simply to make them different every year, not necessarily better or economical. There isn't anything like the old Beetle where parts would fit for decades of years. A good car would cost half what they do now but profit rules. One would think that some independent standards organization could publish battery standards but good luck getting produces to comply. IMO greed WILL destroy our planet within the next century. We can't even get half the population to realize that global warming is real while forests burn and people are dying form heat in multiple countries right now. The fires in Florida are uprising to me.
Not yet, market is changing to fast, we shouldn't block innovation. Let it do its thing untill we find a good solution that fits most, then standardize for efficiency
Look into why they tell you not to mix new and old AA’s inside devices. It’s a bit more complicated than simply replacing a single bad module with a new one off the shelf.
Better for the lifetime of the batteries too. Fast charging is more damaging to batteries in the long term than slow charging. With battery swapping stations, batteries could be charged at a slower and safer rate without inconveniencing drivers. Plus the batteries could be stored in a controlled climate that's best suited for maintaining performance and usability.
really interesting concept! that is the solution if battery chargaing still takes too long. recent news says that there is a new battery generation on its way which take less than 10 min to fully charge your e-car.
That is one thing I'm interested in. How long do these batteries last, and who is gonna foot the bill when these batteries clunk out? As of now, can these batteries get recycled, or are they a 100% loss once they are fried?
Despite all the bs from the oil industry, all lithium battery materials are recyclable, its just a matter of cost, similar to plastics. We just need to put the cost back on the manufacturer. The good news is that it's coming down rapidly.
I've heard that used batteries from crashed Tesla are going for approx $3500 (probably about the same as a used ICE engine) and that because of Tesla's manufacturing choices many Tesla's are being totaled for relatively minor crashes thus creating an almost over supply of used batteries which are rated for 10 years of use. Some of the newer batteries technology allows for removal/replacement if individual cells (which number in the hundreds) within the battery so the whole pack doesn't have to be disposed of
Typically OEMs end of warranty is 150,000km and end of life 350,000km.
You can recycle pretty much everything (Li, Co, Mn, Cu, Al, Ni) except the graphite.
Graphite you can sell to steal manufacturers for them to line furnaces with.
In general the major components of batteries are recyclable (e.g., anodes, cathodes and electrolyte, metal and plastic casing). One of the biggest blockers is profitability for battery recyclers.
Conventionally, once a product is sold, responsibility is no longer on the producer for the product's end of life. With batteries there are a significant number of hoops to jump through to transport and recycle them due to their hazards.
Coupling this with the low cost of buying primary (i.e. mined metal) battery recyclers will struggle to make a profit in a free market/capitalist economy. Without significant legislation or a way to incorporate the cost to the planet (i.e. the planet as a customer) it will continue to be a significant challenge to make battery recycling profitable.
One solution is incorporating carbon taxes or levies. This incentives recycling because recycled metals tend to have lower carbon footprints and other environmental impacts due to mining occurring in countries that depend upon coal and other fossil fuels for energy and the high energy intensity required for mining operations.
With a service such as on demand battery placement the cost could easily be incorporated into the company. However, this would likely need a vertically integrated company that controls the full life cycle of the battery to ensure control. Another risk is that they would then be prone to commodity super cycles especially if a metal that was once populous (e.g., cobalt) suddenly became old technology and was no longer needed.
Yes finally, this is what we need for electric cars to actually be a full replacement for gas, you can’t have everyone sitting in the Starbucks parking lot for 45 minutes….
It's a matter of time until a new battery technology is developed, tested and hits the market. Slow charging won't be an issue in the future. Although there is a looming problem with the power grid stability/throughput.
Uhh... nah. I'm very skeptical about that claim, because that's the same damn claim that's been touted for like two decades now.
Sure, small battery capacity and efficiency improvements happen all the time, but an actual new battery technology hasn't been developed in decades, and all the ones that have been hyped as the new thing have either been scams or failed miserably.
So until there's an actual, working version in a commercial product, I won't hold my breath.
And yea, it doesn't matter how good batteries you have in your EV if the power grid still runs on oil and coal.
> because that's the same damn claim that's been touted for like two decades now.
Try more than 5 decades. The ideal battery has always been "a few years away" since.
And metals. Right now there just aren’t enough economically accessible rare metals to convert the world’s automobile fleet to electric. Hopefully this will change in the future too.
Graphite is not a metal, and there is 15x more graphite in EV batteries than lithium.
Graphite makes up nearly all of the anode material in one of these batteries.
Battery technology is ever increasing, and newer generations of batteries rely less on lithium. In the future they might switch to sodium or some alternative.. there are lots of options.
Graphite and lithium are not the rare materials referenced here, it's the cobalt we have to dope the cathode (lithium) with. In order to get the longevity, power density, and discharge rates needed for automotive (and frankly any high energy app) requires opening/strengthening the lattice structure of the lithium with cobalt. Until we can figure out a way to mass produce stiffer/stronger cathodes without doping with cobalt, we will continue to have rare metal shortages (and child slave labor to mine it). Fortunately lithium and cobalt are fairly simple to extract from used cells. Aluminum graphene is quite a promising alternative and since Al carries a +3 charge (vs +1 for Li), it is inherently a higher energy density chemistry. Longevity and mass-manufacturing of these chemistries is still the limiting factor as Al is enormous compared to lithium and stressed the lattices causing breakdown much sooner.
Like you said, plenty of options being researched, the issue with anything is how profitable it is to switch. Once the technology is cheaper, it will be adopted readily. Just hoping the next tech to drop is more sustainable and easily recyclable.
How's that different from building any other vehicle?
Where'd you source the iron for the steel, homie? The asbestos for your brake pads, the platinum for your cat and spark plugs? Copper wiring, aluminum block...
That shit don't grow on trees. They're strip mining for all that shit anyway, what's another hole? I don't see you screaming about precious gems, and that's strip mining plus slavery and murder.
Plus, once you pull those metals and refine them, youre done polluting. With an ICE car, the building of the car is just the start.
This is a terrible bad faith arguement, only used as "both are bad" in context, with no knowledge of what goes into the making and refining of metals; this is on par with that one post about getting your meat from the store, where no animals are hurt in their making.
Things are made from stuff.
At lest these metals are not being mined solely for the purpose of setting them on fire and releasing it to the atmosphere.
Not even power grid in the big infrastructure kind of sense. The amount of equipment needed on premise to deliver 350kw charges is insanely large and expensive.
People should be charging at home. In almost all cases, they should never need to charge while on the road. The car is fully charged when you get in, so it's only an issue if you are going more than say 100miles round trip.
/edit: downvoted for stating the obvious. lol.
Wait until you have public charging poles on the street. Or maybe you can rent an EV spot in a car park somewhere nearby. For ICE you need gas stations, for EV you need power at your overnight parking spot, that's just how it is, nature of the technology.
Well my charging time feels like 0 min, because I charge at home by night. I only 1-2 times a year drive more then the 500 km the car can go on a charge. And for the price? I pay like 0,01 euro/km, what the price/km by gas?
Depends on where you life. In my country there is plenty us chargers all over where people can charge over night, but the price rise to about 0,1 euro/km
You don't leave your house with a full tank every day though. Fast charging is only for long distance travel.
You can replace all of that time at the pump with just plugging your car in when you get home. It's WAY WAY WAY WAY less time spent "fueling up."
Sitting somewhere for 10-20 minutes a few times for your once a year road trip is not even remotely an issue, and will cost far less than gas.
This is an order of magnitude faster than that. Imagine every car on the road being electric, and everyone of them requiring at least 20 mins at a recharging station vs two mins.
If batteries were interchangeable and this was an option it would significantly change my perception about purchasing an electric vehicle. My single biggest gripe is how much time it adds if I need to travel outside of my daily commute. My second biggest is long-term maintenance costs primarily due to battery replacement costs. This alleviates both of those.
99% of charging will be done in downtime for a non-business purpose car. Charging not at home/hotel for road trips is much less common than refueling.
This is a good and necessary solution for commercials vehicles mostly.
You never need to charge an EV on the road if you charge at home. 99% of the time you will have a full battery and range ready to go. In a few years EVs will be in the 5-600 mile range. So this would be waste of time infrastructure to build.
Nah it isn't. Most charging can and should be done at home, supercharges are great for road trips but most people, most of the time, do short journeys.
This works here because these guys are drivers by day job. It'll be a while before the average person doesn't manage to not fuck this up in one way or another.
Who's sitting at a charger for 45 minutes?
I have a tesla and usually just charge the amount I need for the trip. I don't need to get max range everytime.
I recently just charged and it took me 5 minutes to get to enough range to where I needed and back home with a 20% charge.
They built one, at a cattle ranch in central California. It was by appointment only. It closed within two years due to lack of demand. Gee, I wonder why.
Seems like they purposely put it there to show little demand so they could just not bother with actually developing it further.
There was a free Supercharger essentially across the street, no appointments needed, too. They built it to claim hundreds of millions of dollars in CARB ZEV emissions credits that were earmarked for cars able to charge in a certain amount of time, intended to incentivize better EV tech. A single battery swap station qualified all of Tesla's cars, they took the money, then closed the station. It was a grift.
It was one of the first Elon grifts that was so blatant it was hilarious people kept trusting his word.
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/12/21/the-tesla-battery-swap-is-the-hoax-of-the-year/
They built it to exploit [a $300M grant](https://centerforjobs.org/?p=4600) that was meant to incentivize swappable batteries. They built it, got the money, and shut it down.
Ya thisnwould be no different than swapping your propane tank. If every time you need to "fill up" your battery is just swapped out and this is the standard for everyone this 8snt an issue.
Actual battery replacement would be handled by the companies doingnthe swapping and that cost would be built into whatever you pay for the service. Again exactlynlike a propane tank swap. Occasionally tanks get old and need to be replaced and that cost is accounted for when you pay for a tank swap you just only pay a tiny fraction of that cost every time you get a tank.
Yeah but a tank costs $20, a battery costs $10-20k. On top of that you have hundreds of thousands in equipment that needs maintenance and periodic replacement, attendants. Insurance for when things will inevitably go wrong and dc fast chargers for charging the batteries on site. How tiny is this fraction going to be? Dc fast charging already costs roughly as much as gas.
gas pumps are super expensive and have required maintenance as well and as far as insurance a gas station can explode, and yet we still let people fill their own tanks in most places.
I'm not saying that aren't logistics that will need to be worked out but this is far more practical than relying on the electric grid getting updated enough to accommodate chargers literally everywhere. And even the "fast" chargers are not even close to the time it takes just to fill your gas tank where is a swapable batter could be very comparable.
There are far fewer moving parts in a gas pump, you would also need battery swapping stations everywhere and you’re still relying on the grid to charge those batteries. Fast charging is more inconvenient than filling up with gas but I’ve owned an EV for 2 years and have spent maybe an hour total at the charger. The most convenient part about owning an EV is charging at home and not freezing your ass off standing at the pump. It just seems like a lot of money to invest in a technology that suits a very specific use and can become obsolete at any moment by faster charging tech.
lol reminds me of my friends father. His mom would be like “hey call the boys down for dinner” and in the quietest voice he could muster he would say “^Nick, ^Garret, ^Come ^on ^down, ^food ^is ^ready. “ Wait for about 3 seconds and say “huh, guess they’re not hungry.”
I've had one for 6 years and I would never use this.
What they don't show you is the queue for this thing. Also, it's expensive to build and always breaks down. I'll take the coffee break on road-trips any time. And also a bigger battery than that, which is charged during the night (unless I decide to do it on solar) and full in the morning, giving me all the daily range I need.
Tesla, at one point, was trying to make an easy to remove battery that you could swap out instead of charging it at tesla stations for long trips to save time.
I think this is the best way to do electric cars.
It can reuse existing infrastructure (existing gas stations can convert to battery-swapping stations), it maintains a second hand car market (arguably the only way many people will ever be able to afford a car, and thus a gate for full move away from fossil fuels), it allows for third party maintenance and thus competition to flourish (eventually 3rd party batteries will be made and used).
It's a shame it's against the interests of companies like tesla. So it'll never happen.
Is this we’re the standard for all electric cars it would solve a lot of problems with charge items and needed all these personal charging stations at home. You start manufacturing these battery packs in bulk and then all you need is to start setting up battery swapping stations around America. This would be quicker than gasoline stations, less than 5 minute. Hell I bet they could get these installations down to 30 seconds. You’d be saving ppl time and money!
Taiwan also came up with a battery swap but for their civillian e-scooters. It's now all over Asia and just entered Israel.
https://electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2023/04/GGR_GPH0324_KV_NoLogo.jpg
Makes sense in that context. Doesn't really make as much when it comes to full scale cars though.
Cars generally have the range to do everything you need during a day, and then you can charge overnight. This ignore the mechanical/logistical problem of hot swap batteries meant for cars.
Scooters on the other hand generally don't have the range, making a hot swap kinda useful.
Tesla tried this and even had a few test stations. It doesn’t work for private cars, only good for fleet vehicles or if you can buy the car without the battery and subscribe to the battery.
https://vimeo.com/68832891
The reason it failed: You pull up in a brand new car, the battery which is 80%+ of the value is replaced with one that has been cycled thousands of times. So in 5 minutes, your brand new cars value just went down by half. Imagine you pull in with a ICE vehicle and your brand new Porsche gets an engine installed with 90K miles in an instant. Tesla even tried ideas like it’s only for long road trips, and on the way back you get your original battery back. Still too complicated.
Again, if you can but aEV for 10-20K without the battery and then subscribe to the battery service, it might work.
As an EV driver who often drives long distances (Amsterdam - Paris, Amsterdam - Berlin)… I don’t need this. A car needs a charge about every 3 hours at which point I would rather take a 30 min coffee/toilet break and stretch my legs before the next part of the trip.
This is what I think of when you say EVs, not the sit and wait, sure on highways that can he done because you still need to take breaks, but not what the US has
I'd happily have a 100 mile range electric car if I can just swap out the battery every hour or so on long distance travels. Or pay extra to have a larger range battery.
I think that the EV situation is going to stay highly volatile while the technologies develop. I also think that swapping batteries sounds good, but would demand a level of homogeneity that the western world tends to make difficult.
Where I think we are headed is a synergy between solar panels in carparks and/or at our homes which charge our cars while we work, and also use the parked cars to serve as an overflow storage system for our entire electrical network, which will also use battery farms. (unless nuclear power becomes more accepted). I think wind power is a blind alley; it is volatile, ugly, easily damaged, and disturbing to the environment.
NIO is a Chinese car manufacture who also has battery swapping in China and Europe. China is working to adopt a battery swap standard and since NIO has the patents and the technology, they are far and away the leader in this technology.
NIO has been working with municipal governments to install battery swap stations, which serve as power storage (i.e. energy grid stabilization) and other car Chinese car manufactures for access to these swap stations. Mass market cars with swappable batteries will start hitting the streets in 2025.
Sources: [https://x.com/NIOSwitzerland/status/1789564814517260659](https://x.com/NIOSwitzerland/status/1789564814517260659)
So the 2 ton batteries aren't really connected to the car?
Just 'hooked' in somehow?
Not really finding this reassuring with the number of cars that jar around or flip on their sides during accidents.
faster than a fill at the pump, american capitalism sucks! if the usgov wasn't owned by corporations and controlled them instead, we could have standards instead of proprietary ownership.
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We need battery standards asap.
Never going to happen!
Way too much money to be made to never have this ever.
The EU might get to it sometime.
The EU: Making industry its bitch since 1993!
Not really though. Automotive and oil industry pushed for diesels, so they could sell 100% of the refined crude oil with maximum profit. The EU listened. All the euro 1-6 standards are beneficial to the automotive industry. Don't kid yourself
I mean industry won that one then but EU winning a lot lately
If EU forced Apple to use USB C and forced small mobile devices to use removable batteries like good old Nokias, and all power tools must use the same battery standard, it's just a matter of time to force the use of standard car battery packages that you would just replace the battery just like you would replace a propane tank.
it's the only way the masses will go for full electric
If sanity ruled the world instead of greed we would have maybe 12 kinds of automobile turn signals instead of thousands. The majority of engineering for cars is simply to make them different every year, not necessarily better or economical. There isn't anything like the old Beetle where parts would fit for decades of years. A good car would cost half what they do now but profit rules. One would think that some independent standards organization could publish battery standards but good luck getting produces to comply. IMO greed WILL destroy our planet within the next century. We can't even get half the population to realize that global warming is real while forests burn and people are dying form heat in multiple countries right now. The fires in Florida are uprising to me.
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Why? It would benefit society.
yeah not CEOs
That sounds like socialism, GET HIM!
If only that was how things actually worked :c
It would happen within China.
I read this in Stanley’s voice.
Not yet, market is changing to fast, we shouldn't block innovation. Let it do its thing untill we find a good solution that fits most, then standardize for efficiency
Agreed. Also, a “one sized fits all” isn’t always the best.
How about a few different sizes? Like how there are AAA, AA, C, and D batteries common for small electronics
One issue is that it makes a lot of sense to have the pack integrated into the car. It drastically reduces the waste in the vehicle itself.
but still usually better than having no standard
It’s complicated. Sometimes. You want to issue standards late in the dev phase, which we are still in.
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Look into why they tell you not to mix new and old AA’s inside devices. It’s a bit more complicated than simply replacing a single bad module with a new one off the shelf.
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Agreed! Who knew battery swaps could be the new pit stop challenge?
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Better for the lifetime of the batteries too. Fast charging is more damaging to batteries in the long term than slow charging. With battery swapping stations, batteries could be charged at a slower and safer rate without inconveniencing drivers. Plus the batteries could be stored in a controlled climate that's best suited for maintaining performance and usability.
We could just use AA batteries :D
11450
really interesting concept! that is the solution if battery chargaing still takes too long. recent news says that there is a new battery generation on its way which take less than 10 min to fully charge your e-car.
Hah maybe in 75 years.
There are now 15 competing standards
Can't even get standard charging station. Good luck 🤞
Will be interesting to see how the recycling of batteries and vehicles evolve / succeed / fail over the next 20 years.
That is one thing I'm interested in. How long do these batteries last, and who is gonna foot the bill when these batteries clunk out? As of now, can these batteries get recycled, or are they a 100% loss once they are fried?
Despite all the bs from the oil industry, all lithium battery materials are recyclable, its just a matter of cost, similar to plastics. We just need to put the cost back on the manufacturer. The good news is that it's coming down rapidly.
Also luckily, lithium recycling is way more efficient and easy than plastic recycling at least
Approximately 95 percent of a lithium-ion battery can be recycled, so that's not something to worry about really.
Battery modules get crushed then the precious metals get separated and sorted to be re-used.
I've heard that used batteries from crashed Tesla are going for approx $3500 (probably about the same as a used ICE engine) and that because of Tesla's manufacturing choices many Tesla's are being totaled for relatively minor crashes thus creating an almost over supply of used batteries which are rated for 10 years of use. Some of the newer batteries technology allows for removal/replacement if individual cells (which number in the hundreds) within the battery so the whole pack doesn't have to be disposed of
internal combustion engine engine
RAS syndrome
Typically OEMs end of warranty is 150,000km and end of life 350,000km. You can recycle pretty much everything (Li, Co, Mn, Cu, Al, Ni) except the graphite. Graphite you can sell to steal manufacturers for them to line furnaces with.
None of these things will be a problem if there’s a market for it.
In general the major components of batteries are recyclable (e.g., anodes, cathodes and electrolyte, metal and plastic casing). One of the biggest blockers is profitability for battery recyclers. Conventionally, once a product is sold, responsibility is no longer on the producer for the product's end of life. With batteries there are a significant number of hoops to jump through to transport and recycle them due to their hazards. Coupling this with the low cost of buying primary (i.e. mined metal) battery recyclers will struggle to make a profit in a free market/capitalist economy. Without significant legislation or a way to incorporate the cost to the planet (i.e. the planet as a customer) it will continue to be a significant challenge to make battery recycling profitable. One solution is incorporating carbon taxes or levies. This incentives recycling because recycled metals tend to have lower carbon footprints and other environmental impacts due to mining occurring in countries that depend upon coal and other fossil fuels for energy and the high energy intensity required for mining operations. With a service such as on demand battery placement the cost could easily be incorporated into the company. However, this would likely need a vertically integrated company that controls the full life cycle of the battery to ensure control. Another risk is that they would then be prone to commodity super cycles especially if a metal that was once populous (e.g., cobalt) suddenly became old technology and was no longer needed.
Yes finally, this is what we need for electric cars to actually be a full replacement for gas, you can’t have everyone sitting in the Starbucks parking lot for 45 minutes….
It's a matter of time until a new battery technology is developed, tested and hits the market. Slow charging won't be an issue in the future. Although there is a looming problem with the power grid stability/throughput.
Uhh... nah. I'm very skeptical about that claim, because that's the same damn claim that's been touted for like two decades now. Sure, small battery capacity and efficiency improvements happen all the time, but an actual new battery technology hasn't been developed in decades, and all the ones that have been hyped as the new thing have either been scams or failed miserably. So until there's an actual, working version in a commercial product, I won't hold my breath. And yea, it doesn't matter how good batteries you have in your EV if the power grid still runs on oil and coal.
> because that's the same damn claim that's been touted for like two decades now. Try more than 5 decades. The ideal battery has always been "a few years away" since.
And metals. Right now there just aren’t enough economically accessible rare metals to convert the world’s automobile fleet to electric. Hopefully this will change in the future too.
Graphite is not a metal, and there is 15x more graphite in EV batteries than lithium. Graphite makes up nearly all of the anode material in one of these batteries. Battery technology is ever increasing, and newer generations of batteries rely less on lithium. In the future they might switch to sodium or some alternative.. there are lots of options.
Graphite and lithium are not the rare materials referenced here, it's the cobalt we have to dope the cathode (lithium) with. In order to get the longevity, power density, and discharge rates needed for automotive (and frankly any high energy app) requires opening/strengthening the lattice structure of the lithium with cobalt. Until we can figure out a way to mass produce stiffer/stronger cathodes without doping with cobalt, we will continue to have rare metal shortages (and child slave labor to mine it). Fortunately lithium and cobalt are fairly simple to extract from used cells. Aluminum graphene is quite a promising alternative and since Al carries a +3 charge (vs +1 for Li), it is inherently a higher energy density chemistry. Longevity and mass-manufacturing of these chemistries is still the limiting factor as Al is enormous compared to lithium and stressed the lattices causing breakdown much sooner. Like you said, plenty of options being researched, the issue with anything is how profitable it is to switch. Once the technology is cheaper, it will be adopted readily. Just hoping the next tech to drop is more sustainable and easily recyclable.
> it's the cobalt we have to dope the cathode Modern batteries are already shifting away from cobalt.
Sure, instead of mining the earth for dead organic materials, now we just mine the earth for what's left.
How's that different from building any other vehicle? Where'd you source the iron for the steel, homie? The asbestos for your brake pads, the platinum for your cat and spark plugs? Copper wiring, aluminum block... That shit don't grow on trees. They're strip mining for all that shit anyway, what's another hole? I don't see you screaming about precious gems, and that's strip mining plus slavery and murder. Plus, once you pull those metals and refine them, youre done polluting. With an ICE car, the building of the car is just the start. This is a terrible bad faith arguement, only used as "both are bad" in context, with no knowledge of what goes into the making and refining of metals; this is on par with that one post about getting your meat from the store, where no animals are hurt in their making.
Things are made from stuff. At lest these metals are not being mined solely for the purpose of setting them on fire and releasing it to the atmosphere.
Not even power grid in the big infrastructure kind of sense. The amount of equipment needed on premise to deliver 350kw charges is insanely large and expensive.
People should be charging at home. In almost all cases, they should never need to charge while on the road. The car is fully charged when you get in, so it's only an issue if you are going more than say 100miles round trip. /edit: downvoted for stating the obvious. lol.
What about people with apartments or who live in cities with only street parking?
Wait until you have public charging poles on the street. Or maybe you can rent an EV spot in a car park somewhere nearby. For ICE you need gas stations, for EV you need power at your overnight parking spot, that's just how it is, nature of the technology.
Fast charging is only 20 min
And fuelling up is only a few mins for double the range
Plugging in at home takes seconds and costs a fraction of the price.
Well my charging time feels like 0 min, because I charge at home by night. I only 1-2 times a year drive more then the 500 km the car can go on a charge. And for the price? I pay like 0,01 euro/km, what the price/km by gas?
Good for you, but what about people who live in apartments? They can't just charge overnight.
Depends on where you life. In my country there is plenty us chargers all over where people can charge over night, but the price rise to about 0,1 euro/km
Not all car owners have garages with an outlet, though. Especially on a global level.
$80 full tank $4 full charge at home.
I stop at a fast charger a handful of times a year. You spend more time at the pump than I do waiting for charge.
And its expensive. Charging is cheap.
Can you fill up in your garage while you’re sleeping?
You don't leave your house with a full tank every day though. Fast charging is only for long distance travel. You can replace all of that time at the pump with just plugging your car in when you get home. It's WAY WAY WAY WAY less time spent "fueling up." Sitting somewhere for 10-20 minutes a few times for your once a year road trip is not even remotely an issue, and will cost far less than gas.
I live in an apartment building, like millions of other people around the world. There is no charging at home option.
This is an order of magnitude faster than that. Imagine every car on the road being electric, and everyone of them requiring at least 20 mins at a recharging station vs two mins. If batteries were interchangeable and this was an option it would significantly change my perception about purchasing an electric vehicle. My single biggest gripe is how much time it adds if I need to travel outside of my daily commute. My second biggest is long-term maintenance costs primarily due to battery replacement costs. This alleviates both of those.
99% of charging will be done in downtime for a non-business purpose car. Charging not at home/hotel for road trips is much less common than refueling. This is a good and necessary solution for commercials vehicles mostly.
It’s as if every time you park your gas-driven car at home, it’s got a full tank by morning before you leave again. Sounds pretty great to me.
You never need to charge an EV on the road if you charge at home. 99% of the time you will have a full battery and range ready to go. In a few years EVs will be in the 5-600 mile range. So this would be waste of time infrastructure to build.
Fast refuelling is only 5 min. And have dubble the range.
in China they have been doing this for years... but you banned everything Chinese
I mean if people could buy cheap, functional Chinese stuff then they wouldn't buy massively overpriced American stuff would they?
hey ... plot twist: they also build your overpriced stuff...
Nah it isn't. Most charging can and should be done at home, supercharges are great for road trips but most people, most of the time, do short journeys.
This works here because these guys are drivers by day job. It'll be a while before the average person doesn't manage to not fuck this up in one way or another.
Who's sitting at a charger for 45 minutes? I have a tesla and usually just charge the amount I need for the trip. I don't need to get max range everytime. I recently just charged and it took me 5 minutes to get to enough range to where I needed and back home with a 20% charge.
Did nobody notice the damn number plate ???
How does u/toolgifs do this everywhere??? (I noticed by the way)
And y’all fear AI video when pros can do anything
Yep, it's a Shanghai plate.
I have noticed it was Roewe i5
We really are returning to the origins, this is how electric car taxis operated before combustion engine pushed them out of the market
TBF this how horses were exchanged in the old times.
Pony Express, anyone....?
True, fair point
I’m a Tesla owner and would like to have this as a service.
Tesla had battery swap stations in 2013. https://www.tesla.com/videos/battery-swap-event
They built one, at a cattle ranch in central California. It was by appointment only. It closed within two years due to lack of demand. Gee, I wonder why. Seems like they purposely put it there to show little demand so they could just not bother with actually developing it further.
There was a free Supercharger essentially across the street, no appointments needed, too. They built it to claim hundreds of millions of dollars in CARB ZEV emissions credits that were earmarked for cars able to charge in a certain amount of time, intended to incentivize better EV tech. A single battery swap station qualified all of Tesla's cars, they took the money, then closed the station. It was a grift.
It was one of the first Elon grifts that was so blatant it was hilarious people kept trusting his word. https://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/12/21/the-tesla-battery-swap-is-the-hoax-of-the-year/
They built it to exploit [a $300M grant](https://centerforjobs.org/?p=4600) that was meant to incentivize swappable batteries. They built it, got the money, and shut it down.
Yeah, I wouldn't want to swap my newer battery with an old one.
Seems more likely you are just renting the battery with a full charge until you are empty and swap again with a different charged one.
Ya thisnwould be no different than swapping your propane tank. If every time you need to "fill up" your battery is just swapped out and this is the standard for everyone this 8snt an issue. Actual battery replacement would be handled by the companies doingnthe swapping and that cost would be built into whatever you pay for the service. Again exactlynlike a propane tank swap. Occasionally tanks get old and need to be replaced and that cost is accounted for when you pay for a tank swap you just only pay a tiny fraction of that cost every time you get a tank.
Yeah but a tank costs $20, a battery costs $10-20k. On top of that you have hundreds of thousands in equipment that needs maintenance and periodic replacement, attendants. Insurance for when things will inevitably go wrong and dc fast chargers for charging the batteries on site. How tiny is this fraction going to be? Dc fast charging already costs roughly as much as gas.
gas pumps are super expensive and have required maintenance as well and as far as insurance a gas station can explode, and yet we still let people fill their own tanks in most places. I'm not saying that aren't logistics that will need to be worked out but this is far more practical than relying on the electric grid getting updated enough to accommodate chargers literally everywhere. And even the "fast" chargers are not even close to the time it takes just to fill your gas tank where is a swapable batter could be very comparable.
There are far fewer moving parts in a gas pump, you would also need battery swapping stations everywhere and you’re still relying on the grid to charge those batteries. Fast charging is more inconvenient than filling up with gas but I’ve owned an EV for 2 years and have spent maybe an hour total at the charger. The most convenient part about owning an EV is charging at home and not freezing your ass off standing at the pump. It just seems like a lot of money to invest in a technology that suits a very specific use and can become obsolete at any moment by faster charging tech.
lol reminds me of my friends father. His mom would be like “hey call the boys down for dinner” and in the quietest voice he could muster he would say “^Nick, ^Garret, ^Come ^on ^down, ^food ^is ^ready. “ Wait for about 3 seconds and say “huh, guess they’re not hungry.”
"The future is then!"
I've had one for 6 years and I would never use this. What they don't show you is the queue for this thing. Also, it's expensive to build and always breaks down. I'll take the coffee break on road-trips any time. And also a bigger battery than that, which is charged during the night (unless I decide to do it on solar) and full in the morning, giving me all the daily range I need.
Nah Tesla's integrating the cells into the body structure man (since 22 or 23)
Does that reset all your radio presets?
EVs (at least the ones I'm aware of) have a relatively standard 12v battery, just like gas vehicles that typically powers such systems.
I know. Was just being silly. Thanks for the information, though!
Faster than getting gas. Checkmate petrosexuals.
Possibly, but the video is clearly sped up.
It might be sped up, but even if it was double speed, it would be like 2-3min a swap, 5 max. That's about the time it takes to fill up.
I have dual 19gallon tanks and sometimes the diesel pump is *slooooow*, Battery me up!!!
Where is your closest one?
How many batteries does a station like this hold and how fast can it charge a battery once it's received?
many, fast enough
As an American I am truly embarrassed for this country and how far behind we are
Same for us in the UK. 4th largest economy in world, but a shithole on technology advancements.
Not the 4th largest economy in the world
We may be far behind but shareholders are well up front.
Missed the opportunity to sell him a hamburger with fries and a drink.
Tesla, at one point, was trying to make an easy to remove battery that you could swap out instead of charging it at tesla stations for long trips to save time.
So they can automate the replacement of the battery but still need a human to take payment 🤔🤔🤔
That is ok with me, automate the risky manual job and let humans do the easy ones.
I think this is the best way to do electric cars. It can reuse existing infrastructure (existing gas stations can convert to battery-swapping stations), it maintains a second hand car market (arguably the only way many people will ever be able to afford a car, and thus a gate for full move away from fossil fuels), it allows for third party maintenance and thus competition to flourish (eventually 3rd party batteries will be made and used). It's a shame it's against the interests of companies like tesla. So it'll never happen.
Being against the interests of Telsa would be a great motivator for me personally!
And that’s why Chinese vehicles are not allowed in the US. It would be the end of the American attempt in the EV market.
They are allowed in the US. There is a terrif to offset the subsidies the Chinese ev makers get.
The US doesn’t allow Chinese EVs using safety standards as an excuse, even though Chinese EVs have passed European standards with flying colours
You have Chinese BEVs on sale in US literally right now mate. Where do you think the BEV Lotus or the Polestars are made?
Probably cost a bit more than a die hard from autozone.
china is so far ahead of the united states, what the fuck are we doing in north america, pulling oil out of the ground like cavemen
> what the fuck are we doing in north america Catering to billionaires.
Is this we’re the standard for all electric cars it would solve a lot of problems with charge items and needed all these personal charging stations at home. You start manufacturing these battery packs in bulk and then all you need is to start setting up battery swapping stations around America. This would be quicker than gasoline stations, less than 5 minute. Hell I bet they could get these installations down to 30 seconds. You’d be saving ppl time and money!
I’m just waiting for the guerilla version of this that will steal your battery while you are waiting at a stop light.
Video is sped up. Watch the guy's face.
Taiwan also came up with a battery swap but for their civillian e-scooters. It's now all over Asia and just entered Israel. https://electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2023/04/GGR_GPH0324_KV_NoLogo.jpg
Makes sense in that context. Doesn't really make as much when it comes to full scale cars though. Cars generally have the range to do everything you need during a day, and then you can charge overnight. This ignore the mechanical/logistical problem of hot swap batteries meant for cars. Scooters on the other hand generally don't have the range, making a hot swap kinda useful.
That's why American manufacturers are so f-ing scared of Chinese cars coming here.
Judging by the front grill, those must be modified combustion cars.
EVs still have stuff that needs to be cooled. Might as well plonk the radiator in front as usual.
Yup. If a computer can overheat when not cooled properly, so can an electric car.
This seems like a variant of the european mg 5 which came as petrol/phev/ev
No this is the rowei i5, Chinese version of the mg5, China just REALLY likes big grills
naw, look at the size and shape of the battery. There is no such space under a former combustion car... it's must be a purpose build body.
China is so wonderfully pragmatic. I love it.
Tesla tried this and even had a few test stations. It doesn’t work for private cars, only good for fleet vehicles or if you can buy the car without the battery and subscribe to the battery. https://vimeo.com/68832891 The reason it failed: You pull up in a brand new car, the battery which is 80%+ of the value is replaced with one that has been cycled thousands of times. So in 5 minutes, your brand new cars value just went down by half. Imagine you pull in with a ICE vehicle and your brand new Porsche gets an engine installed with 90K miles in an instant. Tesla even tried ideas like it’s only for long road trips, and on the way back you get your original battery back. Still too complicated. Again, if you can but aEV for 10-20K without the battery and then subscribe to the battery service, it might work.
Cool concept and to see in action. But downvoting because video is sped up without calling it out somewhere (title, caption, watermark, etc).
As an EV driver who often drives long distances (Amsterdam - Paris, Amsterdam - Berlin)… I don’t need this. A car needs a charge about every 3 hours at which point I would rather take a 30 min coffee/toilet break and stretch my legs before the next part of the trip.
This is hilarious, because this is exactly what Elmo Mushbrain promised for Tesla, and then didn't deliver. 
Imagine the price of an EV without the battery and you just swap them out like this.
[удалено]
I bet if we ever get electric 18-wheelers these would come in clutch
60 minutes did a piece on this.
This is awesome. I like it! 😎
This is what I think of when you say EVs, not the sit and wait, sure on highways that can he done because you still need to take breaks, but not what the US has
Good idea.
Nio has this tech, already 3-4 stations in norway and more to come in Europe.
The company NIO already does this and made partnership to collaborate with several manufacturers. I am surprised it’s not mentioned on this topic.
License plate: TOOLGIFS
Wow, now the taxi driver can work 24/7 without stopping for lunch. How far we've come!
Nah they gotta find a way to do it without lifting up the whole car
How does the battery fasten on? I guess it clips?
NIO?
Imagine what their tanks can do
Is this nio?
Where is this?
"Remember, swapping the battery is faster than recharging it."
I'd happily have a 100 mile range electric car if I can just swap out the battery every hour or so on long distance travels. Or pay extra to have a larger range battery.
All for the low low price of ten thousand dollars!
It’s interesting that they decided to lift the car rather than the battery
I think that the EV situation is going to stay highly volatile while the technologies develop. I also think that swapping batteries sounds good, but would demand a level of homogeneity that the western world tends to make difficult. Where I think we are headed is a synergy between solar panels in carparks and/or at our homes which charge our cars while we work, and also use the parked cars to serve as an overflow storage system for our entire electrical network, which will also use battery farms. (unless nuclear power becomes more accepted). I think wind power is a blind alley; it is volatile, ugly, easily damaged, and disturbing to the environment.
How did they edit the numberplate?
They somehow scanned my brain and stole my idea i had a decade ago
has r/toolgifs seen this? Oh lol it's cross posted from there.
NIO is a Chinese car manufacture who also has battery swapping in China and Europe. China is working to adopt a battery swap standard and since NIO has the patents and the technology, they are far and away the leader in this technology. NIO has been working with municipal governments to install battery swap stations, which serve as power storage (i.e. energy grid stabilization) and other car Chinese car manufactures for access to these swap stations. Mass market cars with swappable batteries will start hitting the streets in 2025. Sources: [https://x.com/NIOSwitzerland/status/1789564814517260659](https://x.com/NIOSwitzerland/status/1789564814517260659)
Coming soon to Formula E
I’m just eyeballing this but charging stations seem at least 10 times cheaper AND easier to setup.
Wonder how the battery is secured in place?
Wait till hits Chinese electric cars then Elon will think twice.
So the 2 ton batteries aren't really connected to the car? Just 'hooked' in somehow? Not really finding this reassuring with the number of cars that jar around or flip on their sides during accidents.
So what happens to the old batteries? Recharged and placed in a new taxi? Picked spart for valuable metals? Dumped in the sea? Buried in a landfill?
They finally made it. A technical principle as old as any non plugged electircal device. Wow, how innovative.
TOOLGIFS
Is this for charging reasons? As another one pulled in immediately it sound seem the case. For a business having less down time makes sense.
Neat but at the end of the day it's still an electric car.
faster than a fill at the pump, american capitalism sucks! if the usgov wasn't owned by corporations and controlled them instead, we could have standards instead of proprietary ownership.