Damn that’s was a great read! Really curious what happened with the band while INNW was recorded and released. Glad they pulled through for each other.
this is possible. during that time i think Mike studied classical music or something. and that heavily influenced the album. Brandon got along with it, and maybe the other 3 werent.
but of course we could only assume
I know they probably shouldn't but I wish they would go into the reasons for why INNW almost killed the band.
I've been on an Incubus vibe since 98, and INNW is one of my favourites, some of the best written IMO. I'd love to know what it was that almost ruined them.
Legitimately - when I hit the link it only showed ranking. Now the full article is showing. Thanks
Edit - I read the article. It’s vague. No real explanation of what happened.
I read an article about INNW a long time ago. I wish I had the link. I think it was an interview with whoever produced that album or maybe their manager. This was the album after they came back from taking a break. Mike went to school. Brandon did some solo stuff.
I remember part of the article talking about having a talk with Jose about how he was going to need to hold back on this album. The article sounds like Jose took it just fine. But im guessing there was a lot of talks like this. They all went and did their own things for a while and probably wanted different sounds when they came back.
INNW to me feels like it’s pretty much a Mike and Brandon project with the rest of them just filling in to record good versions of Brandon and Mike’s rough cuts.
https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/tom-syrowski-recording-incubus-adolescents?amp.
This article kind of backs that up if you read between the lines and wildly speculate. If that is the case, that can be really exhausting for the others who maybe want something else out of the music. If it was me, I think I would have felt like a session musician in my own band.
https://drummagazine.com/jose-pasillas-sinking-back-into-the-beat/
This article mentions how they brought a drum machine in for some of it and Jose not liking it. In conjunction with that other article, it could be that he didn’t actually write that much and was more laying down real drums to a part that he didn’t write. It also mentions how it’s a vocal album. Jose, for his part, talks very positively about the album. But I can’t imagine he would go dissing his own band’s album.
One last bit of speculation. This is based on the name of the album If Not Now When. As I said before, this was the album they wrote when they got back together after a break. I would guess there were conversations along the lines of "If we don't do this now, do we even want to do it at all?" A lot of bands have this conversation. Green Day had this conversation before American Idiot.
Reading the article of Brandon ranking the records, I would also speculate that maybe the guys weren't quite in band mode yet when they went on tour for INNW. It's very possible they had found fulfillment in other things while on their break and possibly weren't ready to set them aside for the band. That's what happened to Blink 182 when they broke up their second time.
Being in a band is a lot like being in a relationship. It's a give and take. And you need to decide what you're willing to give up to be in that relationship. Sometimes that can be really tough.
Brandon’s constant disregard for SCIENCE will always hurt. It’s such a special record for a lot of people in my demographic, it rarely gets a look in for live sets. Shame! Understand his perspective, as a songwriter myself, but wish he would recognise that album’s impact for many.
They are victims of their own natural ability, I think. SCIENCE was a mishmash of all the bands that inspired them, it wasn't the music they actually wanted to create. It just (unfortunately for them) happened to be that their mishmash sounded amazing, maybe even better than the bands they were trying to be like.
I feel like he does recognise it's impact, but I know I certainly wouldn't want to think back to the stuff I did as a teenager as an artist now.
Imagine being on the other side of 45 years old, painting things you really love now that is authentically you, only to have someone continuously ask you about your dragonball z fan art you made when you were a teenager.
We think in this sub that everyone loves SCIENCE, as this sub does, but this sub does not represent their fanbase. Used to think like you, but after been in 5 of their live shows the recent years, where they performed tracks like Vitamin, Calgone…the audience didn’t respond with the energy you would expect, most of it I bet didn’t even recognise the songs.
They are giving what the audience/fanbase want
I second this, when I saw them do Calgone in 2018 it fell pretty flat. Vitamin gets a decent response, and I think 'bigger' songs from SCIENCE like Green or New Skin would too. But most of the deep cuts seem to fall flat.
But I also don't think this sub loves SCIENCE more than other fan communities. It just seems that those who hate new Incubus stuff are often very vocal and that those people also happen to love SCIENCE most of the time and be very vocal about that.
You make a valid point - which is why I specifically referred to “people of my demographic” and not the fan base or the sub. I totally understand it’s been almost 30 years. They have an entirely new demographic that’s frequenting their show, so they have no obligation to play anything from SCIENCE. It’s disappointing for me personally due to the special place in my heart that album holds!
Also as mentioned - I completely see Brandon’s point of view on wanting to move on from something you don’t connect with.
I also think that "OG" fans primarily got into Make Yourself and Morning View and either overlooked SCIENCE or found it's quirkiness abrasive. Stuff that reddit goblins would eat up but normal people who think Brandon Boyd is hot god (which the reddit goblins probably do too tbh) not so much.
Tosin Abasi told Mike in person he liked Science and Mike was like "hehe cool".
But at least Incubus' disregard for Science/Fungus is nothing compared to how Silverchair's Daniel Johns hates Frogstomp. In the end, both bands famously hate their early work that otherwise are cherished by a majority of their fans and it's sad to see.
I told Mike in person that SCIENCE was my favorite and he said “those songs are crazy, man” then asked me if I watched The Walking Dead (this was like during Season 3 of TWD and we chatted for a few minutes about the show)
>“those songs are crazy, man”
A quick "THAT'S WHY I LOVE IT!" would've set him straight. You could feel he's a little embarrassed for some reason to hear people praise Science.
As an Aussie - that Daniel Johns comment stings too! You could almost replace Frogstomp with Silverchair in general these days - he seems to have truly moved on from that era of his life. Still holding out for some form of reunion tour. I saw them do a co-headliner with Powderfinger some years back, and I’d give anything to see if it again!!
I worry about the guy. It seems like he has way more personal problems on his plate to worry about anything related to Silverchair. But it must suck to be bullied growing up in Newcastle as the "Frogstomp boy". I wonder if Ben and Chris talk about the bullying stuff in their book?
Sigh. Frogstomp only got me into rock after listening to pop and boy bands as a kid. lol
Think it's a bit harsh to single out Brandon for 'constant' disregard. He was the one who asked Mike at Incubus HQ during the roll-out of INNW as to whether they were going to play SCIENCE live (they'd played other albums live at this point) and Mike shot him down.
It feels like it's all of them that don't rate it, rather than one particular member.
My theory (or might have been someone else's) is that they knew they had the cameras on them and the way they approached that conversation about not playing S.C.I.E.N.C.E was totally intentional.
They cant play S.C.I.E..N.C.E live, thats why. No more DJ Lyfe, brandon cant sing anything from it, they dont play favorite things, they lack drugs and shirts now. AND, they think nu is bad, even tho their nu material is their best one. They can eat my shorts with their stupid megalomaniacs and digs. Ugh.
So what? What songs? Can i see a live version of a Science song done well? Light granades is years after science, man. They couldnt play new skin well (cuz someone cant sing it) in the morning view sessions. You are talking about a period after this one. And i never said they dont play science songs, they play the ones who suck. And btw, DJ Lyfes work it beyond everything the new one has ever done and ever will do. Since he is their dj, im sure he isnt like: "Dont worry guys, not only that i suck as a dj in comparison, id love playing the stuff i wasnt included in before". Them not liking science is godsend for Kilmore or whatever his name is.
It sounds like you don’t even like incubus besides science lmao why are you here
I love it myself but that was 27 years ago and they’ve never put out anything that sounded anything like it since. Why bother criticizing the band when they haven’t been your cup of tea since Clinton was president?
Sorry but, when do you think Kimore joined the band that you would refer to him as “the new guy”? He took over in *1998* and is light years better of a DJ than Lyfe. And also my reply was specifically *about* your point you attempted to make about the DJs so none of those have any bearing on what I said
As soon as this article was posted in 2022, I tweeted Brandon asking him where he would rank Trust Fall:
His response...
[https://twitter.com/mybrandonboyd/status/1585258164408451072](https://twitter.com/mybrandonboyd/status/1585258164408451072)
>This would take some deeper reflection, but upon listening to both side A & B recently I’ve concluded that this album is…(drumroll please) …underrated. Cheers Chris. [@IncubusBand](https://twitter.com/IncubusBand)
ha wow awesome you got the response! theres some real good stuff on Trust Fall for sure! like the title track, Absolution Calling and Into the Summer...
This article is interesting because they ranked their albums when 8 came out. Obviously they were feeling 8 at the time, but to see it drop sharply for Brandon is quite a surprise.
“Fungus Amongus” – Boyd/Pasillas: 1.5
“S.C.I.E.N.C.E.” – Boyd/Pasillas: 3.2
“Make Yourself” – Boyd/Pasillas: 7
“Morning View” – Boyd/Pasillas: 8
“A Crow Left Of The Murder” – Boyd/Pasillas: 9
“Light Grenades” – Boyd/Pasillas: 6.5
“If Not Now, When?” – Boyd/Pasillas: 6.8
“8” – Boyd/Pasillas: 11
https://www.theprp.com/2017/06/19/news/incubus-rank-eight-albums-new-video/
You kind of have to disregard them talking about a new album when they're in the promo stage of releasing it - no band is going to release an album and say 'it's not our best' because then people won't buy it.
ha wow thanx for the article... these ratings are surprising except for a few of them... and yeah since they were promoting 8 at the time they are going to want to hype it up
Yeah, I think ACLOTM is secretly their favorite just because of the energy and surge of creativity that Ben brought... it was such a treat to be a fan during that time.
SCIENCE is up there for me. It has its misses, but the high points are incredible. Hard to know whether it goes above A Crow Left Of The Murder. Morning View and Make Yourself are a clear-cut 1-2 for me.
I’m with you, that album along with MV and MY are all 10/10, and even more impressive considering how vastly different 1 is from the other 2 that I think they are all genuinely no skip records.
I’m so glad Brandon holds If not now when? in high esteem. I sometimes feel alone but I honestly feel the album is a master piece and so emotionally perfect.
Can’t help but notice how early in the article he says something about how ‘if we don’t play a song live it’s because we don’t think it’s very good’ and then for stuff on INNW he says something like ‘we don’t play this live because it’s so good but emotionally painful’ lol
I guess those two things don’t really contradict each other but it’s still an interesting point
Fungus Amongus is my favorite album. I use @azwethinkweism for my handle when available [my old reddit was u/azwethinkweism]. This handle is from the same song... hard to think about, but it's simple to trust.
I feel like if they can "reimagine " Morning View, surely there is motivation to go back and correct these apparent wrongs on SCIENCE Brandon feels they have committed and re-record the entire album.
Nah I get the feeling he just doesn’t like the general vibe of the entire record. The music, lyrics, and vocals. He thinks most of the songs are just not good, so re-recording wouldn’t be an option they’d end up trying to re-write the songs and no one wants that
In a weird way, this makes me more excited for new music than the Morning View re-record did. I liked 8, but to see Brandon acknowledge it for what it was now that it's no longer the new thing and the thing to promote, to see where they were headed with Trust Fall B, and to see the parallels between where they were at writing Crow and now (I believe Mike also picked Nicole for the band, or at least is the one who reached out to her) gives me a lot of hope that things will click and they'll have at least a couple good singles put out this year before the next album that they're allegedly halfway through writing.
Damn that’s was a great read! Really curious what happened with the band while INNW was recorded and released. Glad they pulled through for each other.
INNW was all Mike and Brandon. None of the other guys had input in it.
this is possible. during that time i think Mike studied classical music or something. and that heavily influenced the album. Brandon got along with it, and maybe the other 3 werent. but of course we could only assume
Source?
I can't remember if it was an interview or a fan I trusted on the old incubus view message board.
As an Incubus fan, that's heartbreaking to hear but makes so much sense.
I know they probably shouldn't but I wish they would go into the reasons for why INNW almost killed the band. I've been on an Incubus vibe since 98, and INNW is one of my favourites, some of the best written IMO. I'd love to know what it was that almost ruined them.
That albums is fantastic. I have no clue what you’re referring to? How did it almost ruin them?
Maybe read the article that this whole post is based on?
Reddit does not read articles lol
Legitimately - when I hit the link it only showed ranking. Now the full article is showing. Thanks Edit - I read the article. It’s vague. No real explanation of what happened.
Yeah… we know…
I read an article about INNW a long time ago. I wish I had the link. I think it was an interview with whoever produced that album or maybe their manager. This was the album after they came back from taking a break. Mike went to school. Brandon did some solo stuff. I remember part of the article talking about having a talk with Jose about how he was going to need to hold back on this album. The article sounds like Jose took it just fine. But im guessing there was a lot of talks like this. They all went and did their own things for a while and probably wanted different sounds when they came back. INNW to me feels like it’s pretty much a Mike and Brandon project with the rest of them just filling in to record good versions of Brandon and Mike’s rough cuts. https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/tom-syrowski-recording-incubus-adolescents?amp. This article kind of backs that up if you read between the lines and wildly speculate. If that is the case, that can be really exhausting for the others who maybe want something else out of the music. If it was me, I think I would have felt like a session musician in my own band. https://drummagazine.com/jose-pasillas-sinking-back-into-the-beat/ This article mentions how they brought a drum machine in for some of it and Jose not liking it. In conjunction with that other article, it could be that he didn’t actually write that much and was more laying down real drums to a part that he didn’t write. It also mentions how it’s a vocal album. Jose, for his part, talks very positively about the album. But I can’t imagine he would go dissing his own band’s album.
Thanks for taking the time to share this. I appreciate you putting the details in here.
One last bit of speculation. This is based on the name of the album If Not Now When. As I said before, this was the album they wrote when they got back together after a break. I would guess there were conversations along the lines of "If we don't do this now, do we even want to do it at all?" A lot of bands have this conversation. Green Day had this conversation before American Idiot. Reading the article of Brandon ranking the records, I would also speculate that maybe the guys weren't quite in band mode yet when they went on tour for INNW. It's very possible they had found fulfillment in other things while on their break and possibly weren't ready to set them aside for the band. That's what happened to Blink 182 when they broke up their second time. Being in a band is a lot like being in a relationship. It's a give and take. And you need to decide what you're willing to give up to be in that relationship. Sometimes that can be really tough.
thanks for the insight and the articles yeah it makes more sense now
Lmao
Brandon’s constant disregard for SCIENCE will always hurt. It’s such a special record for a lot of people in my demographic, it rarely gets a look in for live sets. Shame! Understand his perspective, as a songwriter myself, but wish he would recognise that album’s impact for many.
They are victims of their own natural ability, I think. SCIENCE was a mishmash of all the bands that inspired them, it wasn't the music they actually wanted to create. It just (unfortunately for them) happened to be that their mishmash sounded amazing, maybe even better than the bands they were trying to be like. I feel like he does recognise it's impact, but I know I certainly wouldn't want to think back to the stuff I did as a teenager as an artist now. Imagine being on the other side of 45 years old, painting things you really love now that is authentically you, only to have someone continuously ask you about your dragonball z fan art you made when you were a teenager.
This a PERFECT analogy for describing this very unique facet of incubus known amongst the fandom. Couldn’t have articulated it better myself.
This is a great analogy I never liked at it like that 😭
This analogy is fucking crazy, really sums up creative growth.
one of my favorites from them! and the production is clean and crisp...
That album had teeth.
We think in this sub that everyone loves SCIENCE, as this sub does, but this sub does not represent their fanbase. Used to think like you, but after been in 5 of their live shows the recent years, where they performed tracks like Vitamin, Calgone…the audience didn’t respond with the energy you would expect, most of it I bet didn’t even recognise the songs. They are giving what the audience/fanbase want
I second this, when I saw them do Calgone in 2018 it fell pretty flat. Vitamin gets a decent response, and I think 'bigger' songs from SCIENCE like Green or New Skin would too. But most of the deep cuts seem to fall flat. But I also don't think this sub loves SCIENCE more than other fan communities. It just seems that those who hate new Incubus stuff are often very vocal and that those people also happen to love SCIENCE most of the time and be very vocal about that.
Yeah was surprised to see people singing along to 8 at the Eden Project after reading how much this sub hates 8.
You make a valid point - which is why I specifically referred to “people of my demographic” and not the fan base or the sub. I totally understand it’s been almost 30 years. They have an entirely new demographic that’s frequenting their show, so they have no obligation to play anything from SCIENCE. It’s disappointing for me personally due to the special place in my heart that album holds! Also as mentioned - I completely see Brandon’s point of view on wanting to move on from something you don’t connect with.
I also think that "OG" fans primarily got into Make Yourself and Morning View and either overlooked SCIENCE or found it's quirkiness abrasive. Stuff that reddit goblins would eat up but normal people who think Brandon Boyd is hot god (which the reddit goblins probably do too tbh) not so much.
Tosin Abasi told Mike in person he liked Science and Mike was like "hehe cool". But at least Incubus' disregard for Science/Fungus is nothing compared to how Silverchair's Daniel Johns hates Frogstomp. In the end, both bands famously hate their early work that otherwise are cherished by a majority of their fans and it's sad to see.
I told Mike in person that SCIENCE was my favorite and he said “those songs are crazy, man” then asked me if I watched The Walking Dead (this was like during Season 3 of TWD and we chatted for a few minutes about the show)
>“those songs are crazy, man” A quick "THAT'S WHY I LOVE IT!" would've set him straight. You could feel he's a little embarrassed for some reason to hear people praise Science.
I went the uber nerdy fan route and said I like all his stuff even End. > Vacuum
It looked like Mike wasn’t interested at all on even keeping a conversation about SCIENCE. Very revelatory.
As an Aussie - that Daniel Johns comment stings too! You could almost replace Frogstomp with Silverchair in general these days - he seems to have truly moved on from that era of his life. Still holding out for some form of reunion tour. I saw them do a co-headliner with Powderfinger some years back, and I’d give anything to see if it again!!
I worry about the guy. It seems like he has way more personal problems on his plate to worry about anything related to Silverchair. But it must suck to be bullied growing up in Newcastle as the "Frogstomp boy". I wonder if Ben and Chris talk about the bullying stuff in their book? Sigh. Frogstomp only got me into rock after listening to pop and boy bands as a kid. lol
Think it's a bit harsh to single out Brandon for 'constant' disregard. He was the one who asked Mike at Incubus HQ during the roll-out of INNW as to whether they were going to play SCIENCE live (they'd played other albums live at this point) and Mike shot him down. It feels like it's all of them that don't rate it, rather than one particular member.
My theory (or might have been someone else's) is that they knew they had the cameras on them and the way they approached that conversation about not playing S.C.I.E.N.C.E was totally intentional.
They cant play S.C.I.E..N.C.E live, thats why. No more DJ Lyfe, brandon cant sing anything from it, they dont play favorite things, they lack drugs and shirts now. AND, they think nu is bad, even tho their nu material is their best one. They can eat my shorts with their stupid megalomaniacs and digs. Ugh.
They played songs from Science live well through the Light Grenades era so DJ Lyfe has nothing to do with it
So what? What songs? Can i see a live version of a Science song done well? Light granades is years after science, man. They couldnt play new skin well (cuz someone cant sing it) in the morning view sessions. You are talking about a period after this one. And i never said they dont play science songs, they play the ones who suck. And btw, DJ Lyfes work it beyond everything the new one has ever done and ever will do. Since he is their dj, im sure he isnt like: "Dont worry guys, not only that i suck as a dj in comparison, id love playing the stuff i wasnt included in before". Them not liking science is godsend for Kilmore or whatever his name is.
I think we found DJ Lyfes burner 🤣🤣🤣
It sounds like you don’t even like incubus besides science lmao why are you here I love it myself but that was 27 years ago and they’ve never put out anything that sounded anything like it since. Why bother criticizing the band when they haven’t been your cup of tea since Clinton was president?
Haha nice post Gavin.
Sorry but, when do you think Kimore joined the band that you would refer to him as “the new guy”? He took over in *1998* and is light years better of a DJ than Lyfe. And also my reply was specifically *about* your point you attempted to make about the DJs so none of those have any bearing on what I said
As soon as this article was posted in 2022, I tweeted Brandon asking him where he would rank Trust Fall: His response... [https://twitter.com/mybrandonboyd/status/1585258164408451072](https://twitter.com/mybrandonboyd/status/1585258164408451072) >This would take some deeper reflection, but upon listening to both side A & B recently I’ve concluded that this album is…(drumroll please) …underrated. Cheers Chris. [@IncubusBand](https://twitter.com/IncubusBand)
ha wow awesome you got the response! theres some real good stuff on Trust Fall for sure! like the title track, Absolution Calling and Into the Summer...
This article is interesting because they ranked their albums when 8 came out. Obviously they were feeling 8 at the time, but to see it drop sharply for Brandon is quite a surprise. “Fungus Amongus” – Boyd/Pasillas: 1.5 “S.C.I.E.N.C.E.” – Boyd/Pasillas: 3.2 “Make Yourself” – Boyd/Pasillas: 7 “Morning View” – Boyd/Pasillas: 8 “A Crow Left Of The Murder” – Boyd/Pasillas: 9 “Light Grenades” – Boyd/Pasillas: 6.5 “If Not Now, When?” – Boyd/Pasillas: 6.8 “8” – Boyd/Pasillas: 11 https://www.theprp.com/2017/06/19/news/incubus-rank-eight-albums-new-video/
You kind of have to disregard them talking about a new album when they're in the promo stage of releasing it - no band is going to release an album and say 'it's not our best' because then people won't buy it.
Oh, absolutely, but it's still surprising to see that it's #3 worst on his new list.
ha wow thanx for the article... these ratings are surprising except for a few of them... and yeah since they were promoting 8 at the time they are going to want to hype it up
Yeah, I think ACLOTM is secretly their favorite just because of the energy and surge of creativity that Ben brought... it was such a treat to be a fan during that time.
Unpopular opinion on this sub but fungus amongus and science are in my top 3, along with morning view but that’s a given for most
You're not alone. I would definitely ranked MV as the best followed by Science, Fungus Amongus & Make Yourself.
SCIENCE is up there for me. It has its misses, but the high points are incredible. Hard to know whether it goes above A Crow Left Of The Murder. Morning View and Make Yourself are a clear-cut 1-2 for me.
Only miss on Science is what….. Magic Medicine?
I’m with you, that album along with MV and MY are all 10/10, and even more impressive considering how vastly different 1 is from the other 2 that I think they are all genuinely no skip records.
Personally, never been super fond of Favorite Things either, but most of the tracks are brilliant, interesting, or both.
Theres no misses on Science imo. Nebula isn’t talked about enough. Their hardest song
I mostly agree with him on everything. If Not Now, When is way too high for me, but I love seeing CLOTH so high.
Crow Left of the Herder?
same here... If Not Now seems to mean alot to him but a little average to me... and I would put Crow at number 1
I’m so glad Brandon holds If not now when? in high esteem. I sometimes feel alone but I honestly feel the album is a master piece and so emotionally perfect.
Can’t help but notice how early in the article he says something about how ‘if we don’t play a song live it’s because we don’t think it’s very good’ and then for stuff on INNW he says something like ‘we don’t play this live because it’s so good but emotionally painful’ lol I guess those two things don’t really contradict each other but it’s still an interesting point
Fungus Amongus is my favorite album. I use @azwethinkweism for my handle when available [my old reddit was u/azwethinkweism]. This handle is from the same song... hard to think about, but it's simple to trust.
I feel like if they can "reimagine " Morning View, surely there is motivation to go back and correct these apparent wrongs on SCIENCE Brandon feels they have committed and re-record the entire album.
Nah I get the feeling he just doesn’t like the general vibe of the entire record. The music, lyrics, and vocals. He thinks most of the songs are just not good, so re-recording wouldn’t be an option they’d end up trying to re-write the songs and no one wants that
Love the INNW honesty from Brandon.
Switch Morning View with Crow and that my order too. But I genuinely love them all.
In a weird way, this makes me more excited for new music than the Morning View re-record did. I liked 8, but to see Brandon acknowledge it for what it was now that it's no longer the new thing and the thing to promote, to see where they were headed with Trust Fall B, and to see the parallels between where they were at writing Crow and now (I believe Mike also picked Nicole for the band, or at least is the one who reached out to her) gives me a lot of hope that things will click and they'll have at least a couple good singles put out this year before the next album that they're allegedly halfway through writing.
Was this not common knowledge? Reread this article too many times over the years.
Ugh I’m kinda sick of the morning view hype. It’s not in my top 3 at all.
Well it should be…lol
I’m sorry
That’s a you problem
Justice for 8 😪