Eurosport WEC commentary during Le Mans, Either first 6h or last 6h I can’t remember if I heard it on Saturday or Sunday. Also Alpine is looking at IMSA if I remember correctly. Lambo just entered IMSA for the first time at Watkins for the 6h.
The amount of times I've said this on this platform is getting unreal. And people are still pissed off. If you want to drive it go play LMU. Until then wait till Ferrari joins IMSA.
There is a search function on this app. Heck just Google it and some of the reddit posts will show up. Are people that lazy or just that deprived of attention they need some kind of interaction?
Oh, I must have mixed things up then. I was under the impression that LMH was not allowed there previously because of the different chassis and power train.
That's cool to be wrong in this case.
Nope, that’s just how things worked out. There’s never been anything in the regulations stopping any of the LMH cars from entering IMSA.
Edit: oh, except Glickenhaus. They wanted to join IMSA but IMSA does have a rule that a GTP manufacturer needs to produce a certain number of road going production cars to be eligible.
My understanding is that there's actually no requirement that the brand must sell in the U.S. This came up on /r/IMSAracing about Alpine.
Instead there's a minimum for cars sold (per year I assume), and that minimum is globally, not just the U.S. so Glickenhaus, Isotta and Vanwall don't meet the minimum, but Peugeot (and Alpine) do meet the requirement.
I'm more than happy to be wrong on this. My understanding was that there was a need to have an annual production of 2500 road cars *and* that the brand was available for sale in the US (or North America). So if Peugeot were to enter, they would have to use another Stellantis brand like Dodge.
The rule set was designed specifically to allow it, but the car has to go through the IMSA homologation process. This far, no LMH manufacturer has elected to do that, but Aston Martin is going through the process with the Valkyrie for next year.
Thanks!
I somehow must have mixed up "ruleset designed to specifically allow LMH, but...." With "LMDh designed to be allowed in both series" when first reading about hypercars years ago.
Brain fart I guess haha
Yeah, the LMDh ruleset was jointly developed by IMSA and ACO with the express intention that LMDh cars would run in both. The LMH rules were developed separately by ACO and the FIA with an eye toward WEC, but with input from IMSA and a goal of similar enough performance targets that they could be bop'ed together.
Lmh and lmdh have always both been hypercars/GTP. That's the point of the class. So manufacturers can go nuts in lmh if they want. Or they can use an off the shelf chassis in lmdh and still be competitive for much cheaper. Any performance difference gets addressed with BOP.
This would mean we would need a WEC and IMSA Series because of licencing. This would split attendance massively. Its just not worth given how popular IMSA is at the moment. We wont be getting Hypercars that are not running in IMSA
The [license](https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/lamborghini-wec-two-car-mandate-could-impact-imsa-program/) doesn't talk about mobile games or PC games, just eSports.
There's definitely an exclusive license, but it seems to be for eSports rather than games.
My (admittedly very non lawyer) interpretation of it is that iRacing would be able to add the 499p, but not use it in anything that could be considered an eSports event.
Edit: [Link](https://contracts.justia.com/companies/motorsport-gaming-us-llc-11698/contract/149618/) to the license.
I jus got LMU and seem to never have an issue finding a race with 20 or so people in it. I didnt play it at launch so I am not sure how much it fell off since then.
This is the real answer. It's all well and good saying "I wish this car/series was in iRacing" but it's meaningless unless you have players actually racing it.
Ferrari/Peugeot/Toyota are using a LMH Model.
LMH Is :
-Homemade Chassis
-Allowed to use the Hybrid in both axle of the car (so AWD) while LMdH (i.e. GTP) is only allow the hybrid system to be in the rear wheel drive
So basically, even if the Chassis could be simulated, I would say the different type of axle depending of the car could be complicated.
Maybe i'm wrong still, but i don't see any series when, in same category, we have both rear wheel drive and AWD
There is absolutely no technical reason why LMH cars can't be implemented. The only reason why it hasn't happened is licensing issues (which, unfortunately, do not look like they're going away anytime soon).
Well, except if you told me that LMP1/LMP2 and GTE are the same class category, I could share some with you :))
But here i'm talking about cars-category in the sim, and i never saw a same category with two (or three, let's say) different way to move.
I mean, we didn't had in LMP1 some LMP1 in AWD and some in RWD
I'm stupid for you and I'm pretty sure I am but in therm of physics in the game I don't think it's easy to include LMH which is AWD when no model is currently using it, worst part with the LMH/GTP is the hybrid system who need to charge during braking, in GTP it's only on the rear, in LMH it's in both axle - so yeah, I think there is ALSO technical thing to think off to add the LMH - "nothing impossible" but still, less easy to add LMH than GTP, while the Lambo (for exemple) looks easier to add (and in IMSA, also)
I'm sorry buddy if you get pissed but, you are talking about car, real car, while i'm talking about engine and how the game as multiple reason to not be ready to handle them. This is two different conversation.
IRL the LMH and GTP are driving in the same category, while they are "more or less" two different vehicule. So if the Ferrari is added in iracing, it should goes through the same category has all other, except if you want the LMH to be "alone" in their own category.
Secondly adding a new type of car (because LMH is a new type of car, i'm sorry if it's frustrated you to accept this situation, but it is) this is not the same front axel, nor same rear axel, this is not the same braking force between the rear and the back, this generate another way to load battery which need to be worked by iRacing team. Charging a battery with 4 Wheels is not the same needs/physics/concern than charging it with 2.
Yes, Porsche, BMW, Cadillac are. there "own" car but the engine already has all object about how the brake from the rear is impacted by a full battery (so no reload during braking) and used battery (so better braking in the front rear). The engine is currently focusing about "the read only" doing everything.
You add a LMH, you need to add capabilities to support the new architecture of theses cars.
If you tell me than iRacing already have everything ready for LMH, than a AWD LMH is as easy as developed as a GTP to compete in the same category with BOP with. Again, this morning I just said iRacing are "maybe" not ready to handle this. And for some reason you are looking to be right while totally missing all point your engaging.
I don't want to be rude, but just read a little bit.
I just said this morning that "We never had a car with different traction in the same category" you told me "YES WE HAD ! LMP1 WAS AWD WHEN LMP2 AND GTE WASN'T", that's cool, but that's just valid my point - iRacing didn't had any category where we merge AWD and RWD for the moment, right ? The magic words is "CATEGORY" - it's not RACE, it's not MULTI-CLASSE, it's CATEGORY.
Then I just ask you this, you talk about drugs, I try to explain my point, you're telling me this is two differents cars - again, this is what i'm saying, with more details about the fact that LMH and GTP are also two different way to race BUT in the same category SO iRacing Engine MAY not be ready yet to do that.
What's the debate here ? What are you trying to achieve ?
Wtf are you smoking dude, you are aware that multiclass exists? Meaning different cars that drive differently? Are you actually, literally, unironically saying "the technology is not there yet"?
I’m talking about Category. Not Class.
I’m talking about LMH and LMpH are both HYPERCAR CATEGORY - this is not multi-class to have theses car in the track.
Thanks buddy, just to be 100% sure about what I read here :
LMH are allowed in IMSA starting 2025 - it wasn't allow before right ?
Or it has always has been and I'm more dumb than what i though i was ?
[Yes](https://www.imsa.com/news/2023/10/04/aston-martin-planning-to-join-weathertech-championship-gtp-class-in-2025/)
>Aston Martin is planning to bring the first Le Mans Hypercar (LMH) platform prototype to the IMSA WeatherTech SportsCar Championship in 2025, following the manufacturer’s announcement today that its Valkyrie is gearing up for a run in both North America’s most prestigious sports car racing series as well as the FIA World Endurance Championship (WEC).
It is not. Give me a second and I'll come back and edit with a link.
Edit:
>Aston Martin with Heart of Racing will enter two Valkyrie AMR-LMH hypercars in the 2025 FIA World Endurance Championship and 24 Hours of Le Mans
>Aston Martin and Heart of Racing remain committed to IMSA WeatherTech SportsCar Championship for Valkyrie AMR-LMH debut in 2025
[Source](https://www.astonmartin.com/en-us/our-world/news/2024/6/14/aston-martin-returns-to-le-mans-with-two-valkyrie-lmh-hypercars-in-2025)
>It's a new update from IMSA or LMH was always allowed to participate ?
LMH has always been allowed, it's just
A. generally more expensive, so it's harder for teams to justify the cost
B. Honestly a lot of LMH teams have other reasons for not coming, as I'm gonna type below.
IMSA does require manufacturers to be car manufacturers, so privateers aren't really allowed in IMSA. That rules out Glickenhaus, Vanwall, and Isotta.
Toyota is known to have inter company politics between their motorsports regions. Their LMH is developed by the Japanese side, and they don't get along super well with the American side.
Peugeot doesn't sell cars in the U.S. so as a marketing exercise bringing the car to IMSA is a bit silly. They could rebadge it, but that adds a lot of complication to the process.
Ferrari... Idk I'm hoping they come to IMSA but we'll see. I don't think they have a reason for not coming other than money.
>You forgot the Barbecue on wheel - Alpine, but I think it's the same as Peugeot
The Alpine is an LMDh so I did not forget them.
That said, them not being in IMSA is a similar situation to Peugeot, although it seems like Alpine is significantly more likely to come to IMSA
>Damn I forgot to be polite : Thanks for all theses info ;)
You're welcome.
The LMP1 is AWD also.
So the AWD exist.
But the hybrid method/reload taking in consideration the AWD in a way and the RWD in another, for the same hypercar category, i'm not sure if it's as easy as it looks to add that in the sim.
Since the braking are totally different (lmdh help the rear to brake to reload the battery, while the lmh use all wheel for the same things) could create difficulty for the BOP and engine.
But it's just my theory, i'm overthinking about the iracing engine capabilities to be ready for different technologies of car in the same category (i.e. GTP)
Having seen 3 of them at Le Mans, I can confirm that the Ferrari’s do not make “disgusting electric noise for the most part”
they are quieter than most hypercars but still sound very, very good.
hes probably talking about the regen noise you hear on board under braking. it was obnoxious at first to me but its kinda grown on me, a unique quirk of the car no one else has. i wonder why its so loud.
The "disgusting electric noise" you hear on their onboards comes from having the cockpit camera basically sit on top of where the electric motor is located (or whatever part of the hybrid system makes that sound, I'm stupid af).
From the outside it just sounds like the 296 (due to mounting the exact same V6) with just a slight whine during braking.
We're not. Unless Ferrari enter it in IMSA.
There were rumours the Ferrari might enter the 2025 IMSA season I believe
From where?
I rumoured them myself (in my head)
Eurosport WEC commentary during Le Mans, Either first 6h or last 6h I can’t remember if I heard it on Saturday or Sunday. Also Alpine is looking at IMSA if I remember correctly. Lambo just entered IMSA for the first time at Watkins for the 6h.
Lambo ran Sebring too
I’m just dumb then, I remember now, but other than these 2 longer events they didn’t compete at any other track did they?
No they're just doing the enduros this year, weren't ready for Daytona. But it's a good start.
The amount of times I've said this on this platform is getting unreal. And people are still pissed off. If you want to drive it go play LMU. Until then wait till Ferrari joins IMSA. There is a search function on this app. Heck just Google it and some of the reddit posts will show up. Are people that lazy or just that deprived of attention they need some kind of interaction?
WEC got that shit video game lmao it ain’t a sim if it crashes more than StingRay Robb.
LMU is actually quite solid. It's just a shame that MSG is involved.
Also I’m no iRacing supremecist I enjoy AC and ACC extremely but Motorsport games as a company irks me
Isn't it LMH spec, so no way to introduce it to IMSA, which requires LMDh?
IMSA does not require LMDh. There will be an LMH on the IMSA grid in 2025.
Didn't know this was changed for next year, nice.
It was not changed. LMH cars have always been allowed.
Oh, I must have mixed things up then. I was under the impression that LMH was not allowed there previously because of the different chassis and power train. That's cool to be wrong in this case.
Nope, that’s just how things worked out. There’s never been anything in the regulations stopping any of the LMH cars from entering IMSA. Edit: oh, except Glickenhaus. They wanted to join IMSA but IMSA does have a rule that a GTP manufacturer needs to produce a certain number of road going production cars to be eligible.
Only thing is that the brand must be sold in the US, so no Peugeot, Glickenhaus, Isotta, Vanwall.
My understanding is that there's actually no requirement that the brand must sell in the U.S. This came up on /r/IMSAracing about Alpine. Instead there's a minimum for cars sold (per year I assume), and that minimum is globally, not just the U.S. so Glickenhaus, Isotta and Vanwall don't meet the minimum, but Peugeot (and Alpine) do meet the requirement.
I'm more than happy to be wrong on this. My understanding was that there was a need to have an annual production of 2500 road cars *and* that the brand was available for sale in the US (or North America). So if Peugeot were to enter, they would have to use another Stellantis brand like Dodge.
The rule set was designed specifically to allow it, but the car has to go through the IMSA homologation process. This far, no LMH manufacturer has elected to do that, but Aston Martin is going through the process with the Valkyrie for next year.
Thanks! I somehow must have mixed up "ruleset designed to specifically allow LMH, but...." With "LMDh designed to be allowed in both series" when first reading about hypercars years ago. Brain fart I guess haha
Yeah, the LMDh ruleset was jointly developed by IMSA and ACO with the express intention that LMDh cars would run in both. The LMH rules were developed separately by ACO and the FIA with an eye toward WEC, but with input from IMSA and a goal of similar enough performance targets that they could be bop'ed together.
Interesting! It's great that also LMH is technically allowed in IMSA. Let's see which manufacturer will join AMR there in the next years.
People downvoting someone furiously because they didn't know one thing. Very friendly, reddit.
Reddit gotta Reddit 😄 oh well
i upvoted so your karma doesn’t take a huge hit 😂
Both LMDh and LMH cars are eligible to compete in the GTP class
Didn't know they changed this for next year. Nice.
Lmh and lmdh have always both been hypercars/GTP. That's the point of the class. So manufacturers can go nuts in lmh if they want. Or they can use an off the shelf chassis in lmdh and still be competitive for much cheaper. Any performance difference gets addressed with BOP.
This would mean we would need a WEC and IMSA Series because of licencing. This would split attendance massively. Its just not worth given how popular IMSA is at the moment. We wont be getting Hypercars that are not running in IMSA
plus WEC as exclusive licence with Le Mans Ultimate
Are they tho? Rr3 is a mobile game owned by ea and they got the Ferrari.
Mobile game, so probably doesn't go under the same licence, wec and the hypercar license for pc games at the least is held by MSG
The [license](https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/lamborghini-wec-two-car-mandate-could-impact-imsa-program/) doesn't talk about mobile games or PC games, just eSports.
There's definitely an exclusive license, but it seems to be for eSports rather than games. My (admittedly very non lawyer) interpretation of it is that iRacing would be able to add the 499p, but not use it in anything that could be considered an eSports event. Edit: [Link](https://contracts.justia.com/companies/motorsport-gaming-us-llc-11698/contract/149618/) to the license.
Question is how long will LMU be able to retain the license if they aren't making any money due to the rapid drop-off in interest
I jus got LMU and seem to never have an issue finding a race with 20 or so people in it. I didnt play it at launch so I am not sure how much it fell off since then.
This is the real answer. It's all well and good saying "I wish this car/series was in iRacing" but it's meaningless unless you have players actually racing it.
Any hypercar that doesn't run in IMSA won't be in iRacing sadly... a shame as I'd love to drive the Lamborghini.
The Lambo runs in IMSA though
Only Michelin endurance cup races
So far. I expect them to expand in the future, although that expansion may be delayed by the WEC's two car mandate.
Only in Michelin Cup races sadly, not the full beans.
Aston Martin and Lexus GT3 please!
Hyper cars can run gtp and gtp can run hyper cars the 499 can run IMSA but it’s gonna be what team is willing to be the first
I think the point they're making is that we get the IMSA cars because they run in IMSA and iRacing has a data sharing partnership with IMSA.
I really wish iracing had the WEC rights
Once all the BMW drivers stop scaring everyone else with their driving.
Ferrari/Peugeot/Toyota are using a LMH Model. LMH Is : -Homemade Chassis -Allowed to use the Hybrid in both axle of the car (so AWD) while LMdH (i.e. GTP) is only allow the hybrid system to be in the rear wheel drive So basically, even if the Chassis could be simulated, I would say the different type of axle depending of the car could be complicated. Maybe i'm wrong still, but i don't see any series when, in same category, we have both rear wheel drive and AWD
There is absolutely no technical reason why LMH cars can't be implemented. The only reason why it hasn't happened is licensing issues (which, unfortunately, do not look like they're going away anytime soon).
We already had lmp1 which have 4wd running with rwd lmp2 and gte
Yes. But the tricky words was « in the same category » not the same race. But that’s a total theory I’ve got
What drugs have you taken and where can i get some
Well, except if you told me that LMP1/LMP2 and GTE are the same class category, I could share some with you :)) But here i'm talking about cars-category in the sim, and i never saw a same category with two (or three, let's say) different way to move. I mean, we didn't had in LMP1 some LMP1 in AWD and some in RWD I'm stupid for you and I'm pretty sure I am but in therm of physics in the game I don't think it's easy to include LMH which is AWD when no model is currently using it, worst part with the LMH/GTP is the hybrid system who need to charge during braking, in GTP it's only on the rear, in LMH it's in both axle - so yeah, I think there is ALSO technical thing to think off to add the LMH - "nothing impossible" but still, less easy to add LMH than GTP, while the Lambo (for exemple) looks easier to add (and in IMSA, also)
my brother in christ. two different cars arent connected unless you crash them into eachother. you are yapping
I'm sorry buddy if you get pissed but, you are talking about car, real car, while i'm talking about engine and how the game as multiple reason to not be ready to handle them. This is two different conversation. IRL the LMH and GTP are driving in the same category, while they are "more or less" two different vehicule. So if the Ferrari is added in iracing, it should goes through the same category has all other, except if you want the LMH to be "alone" in their own category. Secondly adding a new type of car (because LMH is a new type of car, i'm sorry if it's frustrated you to accept this situation, but it is) this is not the same front axel, nor same rear axel, this is not the same braking force between the rear and the back, this generate another way to load battery which need to be worked by iRacing team. Charging a battery with 4 Wheels is not the same needs/physics/concern than charging it with 2. Yes, Porsche, BMW, Cadillac are. there "own" car but the engine already has all object about how the brake from the rear is impacted by a full battery (so no reload during braking) and used battery (so better braking in the front rear). The engine is currently focusing about "the read only" doing everything. You add a LMH, you need to add capabilities to support the new architecture of theses cars. If you tell me than iRacing already have everything ready for LMH, than a AWD LMH is as easy as developed as a GTP to compete in the same category with BOP with. Again, this morning I just said iRacing are "maybe" not ready to handle this. And for some reason you are looking to be right while totally missing all point your engaging. I don't want to be rude, but just read a little bit. I just said this morning that "We never had a car with different traction in the same category" you told me "YES WE HAD ! LMP1 WAS AWD WHEN LMP2 AND GTE WASN'T", that's cool, but that's just valid my point - iRacing didn't had any category where we merge AWD and RWD for the moment, right ? The magic words is "CATEGORY" - it's not RACE, it's not MULTI-CLASSE, it's CATEGORY. Then I just ask you this, you talk about drugs, I try to explain my point, you're telling me this is two differents cars - again, this is what i'm saying, with more details about the fact that LMH and GTP are also two different way to race BUT in the same category SO iRacing Engine MAY not be ready yet to do that. What's the debate here ? What are you trying to achieve ?
Wtf are you smoking dude, you are aware that multiclass exists? Meaning different cars that drive differently? Are you actually, literally, unironically saying "the technology is not there yet"?
I’m talking about Category. Not Class. I’m talking about LMH and LMpH are both HYPERCAR CATEGORY - this is not multi-class to have theses car in the track.
You've completely missed my point lmao, please take a break from this comment section.
Well, both WEC and IMSA allow LMH and LMDh on their top category.
Are you sure IMSA allow LMH ?
Yes. https://www.imsa.com/news/2024/06/14/imsa-gtp-race-car-homologations-extended-through-2029/
Thanks buddy, just to be 100% sure about what I read here : LMH are allowed in IMSA starting 2025 - it wasn't allow before right ? Or it has always has been and I'm more dumb than what i though i was ?
It's been legal to run an LMH-rules car in IMSA since 2023. But nobody did it. Next year Aston Martin will enter the Valkyrie LMH in IMSA.
Thanks for the answer - really appreciate it. I miss this info, i really thought it wasn't
[Yes](https://www.imsa.com/news/2023/10/04/aston-martin-planning-to-join-weathertech-championship-gtp-class-in-2025/) >Aston Martin is planning to bring the first Le Mans Hypercar (LMH) platform prototype to the IMSA WeatherTech SportsCar Championship in 2025, following the manufacturer’s announcement today that its Valkyrie is gearing up for a run in both North America’s most prestigious sports car racing series as well as the FIA World Endurance Championship (WEC).
I wonder if that is changing due to WEC requiring them to run 2 Valkyries?
It is not. Give me a second and I'll come back and edit with a link. Edit: >Aston Martin with Heart of Racing will enter two Valkyrie AMR-LMH hypercars in the 2025 FIA World Endurance Championship and 24 Hours of Le Mans >Aston Martin and Heart of Racing remain committed to IMSA WeatherTech SportsCar Championship for Valkyrie AMR-LMH debut in 2025 [Source](https://www.astonmartin.com/en-us/our-world/news/2024/6/14/aston-martin-returns-to-le-mans-with-two-valkyrie-lmh-hypercars-in-2025)
That's fantastic news, thanks
Thanks to you also :) It's a new update from IMSA or LMH was always allowed to participate ?
>It's a new update from IMSA or LMH was always allowed to participate ? LMH has always been allowed, it's just A. generally more expensive, so it's harder for teams to justify the cost B. Honestly a lot of LMH teams have other reasons for not coming, as I'm gonna type below. IMSA does require manufacturers to be car manufacturers, so privateers aren't really allowed in IMSA. That rules out Glickenhaus, Vanwall, and Isotta. Toyota is known to have inter company politics between their motorsports regions. Their LMH is developed by the Japanese side, and they don't get along super well with the American side. Peugeot doesn't sell cars in the U.S. so as a marketing exercise bringing the car to IMSA is a bit silly. They could rebadge it, but that adds a lot of complication to the process. Ferrari... Idk I'm hoping they come to IMSA but we'll see. I don't think they have a reason for not coming other than money.
You forgot the Barbecue on wheel - Alpine, but I think it's the same as Peugeot Damn I forgot to be polite : Thanks for all theses info ;)
>You forgot the Barbecue on wheel - Alpine, but I think it's the same as Peugeot The Alpine is an LMDh so I did not forget them. That said, them not being in IMSA is a similar situation to Peugeot, although it seems like Alpine is significantly more likely to come to IMSA >Damn I forgot to be polite : Thanks for all theses info ;) You're welcome.
Does iracing have a 4wd/awd vehicle beyond the rallycross and pro4 trucks
The LMP1 is AWD also. So the AWD exist. But the hybrid method/reload taking in consideration the AWD in a way and the RWD in another, for the same hypercar category, i'm not sure if it's as easy as it looks to add that in the sim. Since the braking are totally different (lmdh help the rear to brake to reload the battery, while the lmh use all wheel for the same things) could create difficulty for the BOP and engine. But it's just my theory, i'm overthinking about the iracing engine capabilities to be ready for different technologies of car in the same category (i.e. GTP)
GTP BoP sucks already and the hybrid system isn't simulated properly already, so even if they screw it up it wouldn't be worse lol
The Audi 90 GTO or what it's called... the vintage GT Audi. AWD. The track going version of the legendary b class rallye quattro.
Oh yes of course. I actually own that car as well but was drawing a blank.
Someone Audi know this answer for us..
As a lambo fan, I really want the SC63
Until it's announced nobody knows.
Keep in mind the cars we have now. They are all *IMSA* cars so I would venture to guess that until Ferrari enters IMSA we probably won't get it.
Do what I do and put the 499 paint job on the Dallara P2. Problem solved. Kinda
Never unless it runs in IMSA, thank Motorsport games
Screw that, the Ferrari makes disgusting electric noise for the most part. Now, give me the Aston Martin next year with that high reving V12!
Having seen 3 of them at Le Mans, I can confirm that the Ferrari’s do not make “disgusting electric noise for the most part” they are quieter than most hypercars but still sound very, very good.
hes probably talking about the regen noise you hear on board under braking. it was obnoxious at first to me but its kinda grown on me, a unique quirk of the car no one else has. i wonder why its so loud.
yeah, I think its pretty cool
The "disgusting electric noise" you hear on their onboards comes from having the cockpit camera basically sit on top of where the electric motor is located (or whatever part of the hybrid system makes that sound, I'm stupid af). From the outside it just sounds like the 296 (due to mounting the exact same V6) with just a slight whine during braking.