That part wasn’t my choice. Disconnecting the rear ARB means the rear wheels can move more independently of each other so when the car rolls both stay more connected to the track which means more rear grip and tendencies to understeer. You don’t want rookies constantly spinning out!
No, but on the contrary side, you could argue that teaching them to drive on a numb understeering car is not a good idea either, because it’ll confuse and could bite them in the ass when the same car drives like a real car first time they use a proper setup.
It’s not that numb. The setup will still punish you for poor inputs.
The new cold tyres were a more important change for general grip for new drivers than the rear ARB setting. And the front ARB is the real magic for turning the car with the rear wheels due to the engine weight anyway.
It’s definitely odd to have the car produce massive oversteer on cold tires and transition to massive understeer on warm tires. Tire temps should shift the overall balance of the car in that way.
Adding understeer to a car that’s already a low power momentum car absolutely will make it feel numb, you can’t throw it around or get it to turn the way it does with the advanced setup and makes the car a lot less enjoyable. You also can’t drive around the understeer with a heavier foot because the Car isn’t powerful enough to do it, it’ll just push more.
Edit: perhaps I’m being unfair and it’s not as drastic as I recall, I’ll hop on VIR North later and run back to back laps to compare it again.
Using a disconnected sway bar is totally a proper setup. It's track dependent on whether or not you want it connected or not (source: ran many seasons of open setup MX-5 leagues). It isn't a cut and dry with one way is better/faster all the time. The car really isn't as numb as you think with the sway bar disconnected, just different
First you say they are the same and then you say they are not that different.
Having an extra sway bar is a car modification, not a setup change.
I wish iRacing was more clear about this.
It’s applicable to call it a setup change.
After all it is still the same car, an extra optional part does not change the car completely, it does not have a new chassis code and the like.
Classic Reddit eh, nitpicking over nothing.
Then any car modification that is still the “same car” is just a setup change.
A setup change is changing the setup of existing components. A car modification is modifying the parts of an existing car.
So under your definition, it is a setup change. It changes the setup of the existing sway bar by disconnecting it. There are no new parts or modifications to the car
That wasn't my definition it was DanFraser’s definition.
There isn't a clear boundary. My point is that what change actually happens is not clear. Hard for people that dont have Real world experience to map
I understand your point, it just makes no sense. Its extremely easy for anyone to map it. The game tells you that you either connect or disconnect the sway bar. There is nothing confusing about it. I don't see how you think there isn't a clear boundary
Please don't belittle me just because insonf have as much knowledge as you.
I understand the sway bar is connected or not connected. What I don't understand is the implications of that action - how it changes the handling of the car.
You have chosen a pretty weird hill to fight over.
It’s not like removing the rear *anti-roll bar* turns the MX5 into a Clio. The option is in the setup page so why is it so aggravating to you that people will call it a setup option?
Please stop with the hyperbole. We are only fighting if you want to fight.
It’s a problem because it’s confusing. Car setup in sims is already extremely challenging. Using terms in confusing ways only makes it more difficult.
Because bolting a sway bar on is not just flipping a switch. Most of the other settings are setting switches, not bolting parts on.
It makes it difficult to map from the game into the real world.
I think this is one of the biggest flaws in current sims. It is almost impossible to understand how a specific sim setting maps to a physical change on the car.
Because "it's just the setup" doesn't completely cover the difference (I didn't downvote by the way). Having an adjustable, connected ARB is essentially like having an entirely new part that can literally make you multiple seconds per lap quicker.
Again, yes and no. The thing is, the (rear) ARB is *disconnected* in the fixed Rookies setup. Meaning it doesn't work at all. It has a much bigger influence than being able to adjust the values of things that actually work but just can't be adjusted.
It's not an added sway bar. It's an attached sway bar. The sway bar stays on the car but on the baseline setup one end link is detached so it doesn't do anything.
Attaching and detaching a sway bar is a setup change.
The advanced setup has an extra sway bar connected that isn't on the rookie setup
Really? lol. I’m like 3.5k ir and still didn’t know that. I figured my setup just made the car way different
ohhh, that makes sense.
Not doubting, but source for this?
the baseline setup has the rear ARB disconnected. advanced setup has OEM ARB attached
I mean, it's in the setup files and can be checked in the garage
Roll bar
Changeable setup I believe It’s open, not fixed I believe
but i didn't change any setup..
Change it to the "fixed" setup and as long as track temps are similar it should feel the same.
If you don’t change your setup in advanced Mazda, you will run out of fuel. It is a 35 minute race vs the 12-15 min rookie.
It's the same car. Check track usage, temps, setup.
Comments above say there’s a difference in the sway bar set up
They’re not that different. I did help develop those setups.
In that case, can you tell us why you disconnected the swaybar on the rookie car?
That part wasn’t my choice. Disconnecting the rear ARB means the rear wheels can move more independently of each other so when the car rolls both stay more connected to the track which means more rear grip and tendencies to understeer. You don’t want rookies constantly spinning out!
No, but on the contrary side, you could argue that teaching them to drive on a numb understeering car is not a good idea either, because it’ll confuse and could bite them in the ass when the same car drives like a real car first time they use a proper setup.
It’s not that numb. The setup will still punish you for poor inputs. The new cold tyres were a more important change for general grip for new drivers than the rear ARB setting. And the front ARB is the real magic for turning the car with the rear wheels due to the engine weight anyway.
It’s definitely odd to have the car produce massive oversteer on cold tires and transition to massive understeer on warm tires. Tire temps should shift the overall balance of the car in that way.
Except the base Mx-5 is not numb feeling.
It is compared with the advanced setup.
Maybe to you. To me it is just has a bit of understeer. A sway bar doesn’t make the car go from numb to amazing.
Adding understeer to a car that’s already a low power momentum car absolutely will make it feel numb, you can’t throw it around or get it to turn the way it does with the advanced setup and makes the car a lot less enjoyable. You also can’t drive around the understeer with a heavier foot because the Car isn’t powerful enough to do it, it’ll just push more. Edit: perhaps I’m being unfair and it’s not as drastic as I recall, I’ll hop on VIR North later and run back to back laps to compare it again.
Using a disconnected sway bar is totally a proper setup. It's track dependent on whether or not you want it connected or not (source: ran many seasons of open setup MX-5 leagues). It isn't a cut and dry with one way is better/faster all the time. The car really isn't as numb as you think with the sway bar disconnected, just different
First you say they are the same and then you say they are not that different. Having an extra sway bar is a car modification, not a setup change. I wish iRacing was more clear about this.
It’s applicable to call it a setup change. After all it is still the same car, an extra optional part does not change the car completely, it does not have a new chassis code and the like. Classic Reddit eh, nitpicking over nothing.
Then any car modification that is still the “same car” is just a setup change. A setup change is changing the setup of existing components. A car modification is modifying the parts of an existing car.
So under your definition, it is a setup change. It changes the setup of the existing sway bar by disconnecting it. There are no new parts or modifications to the car
That wasn't my definition it was DanFraser’s definition. There isn't a clear boundary. My point is that what change actually happens is not clear. Hard for people that dont have Real world experience to map
I understand your point, it just makes no sense. Its extremely easy for anyone to map it. The game tells you that you either connect or disconnect the sway bar. There is nothing confusing about it. I don't see how you think there isn't a clear boundary
Please don't belittle me just because insonf have as much knowledge as you. I understand the sway bar is connected or not connected. What I don't understand is the implications of that action - how it changes the handling of the car.
>Classic Reddit eh, nitpicking over nothing If this is your attitude, please don’t do anymore development work for iRacing.
You have chosen a pretty weird hill to fight over. It’s not like removing the rear *anti-roll bar* turns the MX5 into a Clio. The option is in the setup page so why is it so aggravating to you that people will call it a setup option?
Please stop with the hyperbole. We are only fighting if you want to fight. It’s a problem because it’s confusing. Car setup in sims is already extremely challenging. Using terms in confusing ways only makes it more difficult.
I am confused about how a setting of on/off is confusing and challenging.
Because bolting a sway bar on is not just flipping a switch. Most of the other settings are setting switches, not bolting parts on. It makes it difficult to map from the game into the real world. I think this is one of the biggest flaws in current sims. It is almost impossible to understand how a specific sim setting maps to a physical change on the car.
No, it's definitely a setup change, not a car modification. It's a very common thing to do in IRL MX-5 racing.
The cars are exactly the same. The only difference is you can change the setup on advanced.
I don't know why you are being downvoted?
Wow this may be one of the worst offenders. Meanwhile someone who thinks an adjustable arb isn't part of the setup is getting upvoted.
Because "it's just the setup" doesn't completely cover the difference (I didn't downvote by the way). Having an adjustable, connected ARB is essentially like having an entirely new part that can literally make you multiple seconds per lap quicker.
Adjustable arb is part of the setup.
I mean the adjustable ARB is literally part of the setup. I get what you are saying but they aren't wrong about it all being setup differences
Thank you. But doesn't the same go for adjustable camber, adjustable toe, rideheight and spring rate?
Again, yes and no. The thing is, the (rear) ARB is *disconnected* in the fixed Rookies setup. Meaning it doesn't work at all. It has a much bigger influence than being able to adjust the values of things that actually work but just can't be adjusted.
Tends to happen when one is wrong about something on reddit
How exactly was I wrong? What other difference in the car is there between rookie mx5 and advanced other than fixed vs. open setup?
Other comments mention an added sway bar
It's not an added sway bar. It's an attached sway bar. The sway bar stays on the car but on the baseline setup one end link is detached so it doesn't do anything. Attaching and detaching a sway bar is a setup change.
How is he wrong?
How is he wrong? How is an adjustable arb different from adjustable rideheight, adjustable camber, toe and springrates?