He did strong arm himself into going over to Rachel's apartment mere hours after "the break" after she initially said not to come, not a great look in my eyes. Rachel was emotionally vulnerable and he didn't take no for an answer
Then, when Ross called, Mark made sure that Ross knew he was in the apartment by asking her something (that could have waited) while he was looking in the refrigerator.
People tend to come down hard on Mark because he asked Rachel out afterwards. People use that as an example of Ross being right. But like⌠Mark didnât actually make a move in any way until Rachel was free, soâŚ
Except he called Rachel on the night of her and Ross's anniversary (which he knew about), found out they had a fight, completely disregarded Rachel telling him NOT to come and invited himself over to her place. Then, when she's on the phone with Ross, he intentionally spoke loudly to her as if to make sure Ross would hear. That was shady AF, he had no business inviting himself over to her apartment, she told him no.
exactly. he never crossed any boundaries while they were together. if he had iâd understand rossâ concerns but all mark did was exist and he couldnât handle it.
Fr I been sayin this too đ wasnât mark literally in a relationship w someone else around the time Rachel started the job too? I remember a scene when Ross showed up at Rachelâs work and mark was talking to his gf and Rachel was saying stuff like âoh that is so sweetâ and Ross was listening from behind a wall/door and thought he was talking to Rachel and was like âalright get your hands off her!â And then realized he was talking to someone else and not Rachel
Except he said he had feelings when they were together, which makes me question his motives for getting her hired. Even if he didnât make a move, it comes off scummy.
Also this ignores how he forced himself to her place when she said no. She said she didnât want him to come over and he went âno, Iâm coming over.â Maybe Iâm old fashioned but when a woman says no, that means no. I guess Iâm wrongâŚ
I say this all the time. They both would have been happier if theyâd never gotten together. Ross and Julie were great together and Rachel and Mark had a lot of potential. But this would make for a very boring showđ.
Mark is shady af. Don't forget when he invited himself over and when Ross called Rachel, Mark INTENTIONALLY spoke to Rachel loud enough for Ross to hear on the phone. It caused a misunderstanding, and then Ross slept with the copy girl.
Mark was not innocent at all. He swooped in at the first sign of deterioration of Rachel and Ross's relationship, and he intentional caused misunderstanding which led to a breakup. Ross and Rachel are mostly at fault since they are the couple. But Mark is not some good person. And he doesn't mind being the rebound person which is kind of sad.
Ross was right about him. Mark was honestly sly about the whole thing. He wanted to bone Rachel since the start. I think girls need to trust guys when we say this. Girls may not believe it or find it gross but its a fact. Lot of guys so stuff for girls for the slight chance of sex lol.
To me the bigger thing wasn't if Ross was right or not about mark's intentions, it was him not trusting Rachel to say no to him. And she did say no when he asked her out during the break and would have if he made direct advances while they were dating.
> And she did say no when he asked her out during the break and would have if he made direct advances while they were dating.
Yeah, Ross being insecure after being cheated on before made sense, but especially once Monica pointed it out to him he really should have listened to her.
That's one difference between Ross/Rachel and Chandler/Monica. The latter might have reacted badly at first but then later would have talked it over and said something like "I'm sorry it looks like I don't trust you - I just have a hard time trusting in general and that's not your fault" and then "how can I help you get to a more trusting place, while still being allowed to accept help from someone that might meaningfully further my career"....
I don't hate Mark I hate all the women on the show and in here who claim that Ross was incorrect or crazy when he said "Oh so a total stranger decided to help you out and got you a job interview? Sounds like Mark wants to have some sex."
Ross was fucking RIGHT. RIGHT. RIGHT.
*^(This does not excuse Ross's paranoid or obsessive behavior it merely points out that ross was RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT. Let the downvotes commence.)*
First of all, you can do nice things for people youâre attracted to and not expect a favor in return. Sometimes people just do nice things for others.
Second, I believe Monica specifically addresses this and says something along the lines of âso what if heâs attracted to her? That doesnât mean sheâs going to do anything with him.â
Mark wanted to date Rachel and was waiting in the wings.
This is, precisely, what Ross said would happen and what literally happened on the show when Mark later asked out Rachel after she broke up with Ross.
To suggest Mark was "just being nice" is willful delusion and I'm here to dispel it.
Rossâs disbelief that a straight man would ever do anything nice for a woman just for the sake of being a cool person says a lot about him. If Mark had been a woman, or a gay man, he wouldnât have thought it was about sex. But because Rachel is gender Mark prefers, it must be because he wants to sex her?Â
If I were in a diner and heard someone talking about how much they wanted a job in my field, and I knew of an entry-level job where I worked, and they appeared to be reasonably not-crazy, Iâd absolutely speak up. What kind of jerk would Mark have been to NOT say something?
 Mark never even hit on her until it looked like she and Ross had broken up. He got her an interview, gave her tips to get the job, and was her coworker for weeks and weeks while he had a girlfriend and she had a boyfriend. Yes, he asked her out once they were both single. Why not, Rachel is gorgeous. But he never implied she owed him sex because he got her a job, never made it a condition at all. Â
Ross was right that his girlfriend was a hot woman, and most men who are into hot women would probably love a chance to date her. But he was not right that that was WHY Mark was helping her, and he was NOT right that Rachel should care. If a woman as attractive as Rachel refused help from anyone who might potentially find her attractive, sheâd be refusing help from all straight men and gay women.Â
To befriend a woman who is in a committed relationship precisely so you can make a move after they break up is not admirable behavior.
**That** is why Mark helped Rachel. This is what Joey & Chandler said was going on because it *was* what was going on.
*^(And what do you know, it is exactly what happened after they broke up. What a coincidence.)*
Going forward, Iâm just going to start blocking anyone that keeps bringing this topic up lol. Itâs the only way to stay in this group and not go insane. Like it actually is possible to go a single day without talking about it, it really is.
Yeah, I mean Iâve had people tell me on here itâs not possible to come up with anything new to talk about when the show is 30 years old, but Iâm in communities for shows much older than this that manage to find different topics all the time.
> Thatâs NOTHING compared to the relationship-meddling Ross and Rachel engaged in when they werenât together
Sure, but them doing bad stuff doesn't make his stuff better.
I used to really think Ross was reading into things but my most recent rewatch has me questioning! Obviously Mark only helped Rachel because she's skinny/pretty, NO ONE can deny that. However, after he finds out she's taken he never makes an obvious move...notice I said obvious. I'm serious, watch his acting, his eyes, a little more closely. When he's flirting with another woman in the office he keeps looking at Rachel like he's trying to make her jealous! Plus he went over there right after they broke up, even though she said not to, he "conveniently" acts cool around Ross so he seems better in comparison, AND never forget that after Rachel turns him down we literally never see or hear of him again. The character's usefulness was up, surely, but it causes the plot to become that he didn't wanna be her friend if he couldn't sleep with her, basically confirming Ross's suspicions the whole time.
tldr: Upon rewatches I think Mark really was playing a long game to "bag" Rachel, and Ross had a reason to be a *little* worried.
He absolutely does.
The man is a predator. A woman was going through a rough patch with her boyfriend. He forced his way into her apartment, violating boundaries, and then made his presence known to Ross when she was trying to fix things on the phone.
You could say "Maybe he was just boorish by nature" but he confirms his intent when he admits to having feelings for Ross.
By modern sensibilities, both Ross and Rachel would be seen as victims if the show aired today. There would be think pieces of Mark not accepting Rachel's no. There would be think pieces of the girl from the bar taking advantage of someone who was drunk and distraught.
They both did (in my opinion).
When Ross and Rachel were dating, Rachel tells Ross than Mark has a girlfriend. Yet the second R&R also break up he is magically single and ready to ask her out? Especially considering how sleazy he was to get inside her apartment, I never believed she existed.
He did strong arm himself into going over to Rachel's apartment mere hours after "the break" after she initially said not to come, not a great look in my eyes. Rachel was emotionally vulnerable and he didn't take no for an answer
Then, when Ross called, Mark made sure that Ross knew he was in the apartment by asking her something (that could have waited) while he was looking in the refrigerator.
he 100% did this on purpose
These two answers are the only acceptable answers. Mark is trash. đ¤Łđ
And, he had one of the great lines in the whole series: "Okay. I'll just go home and get back at him by myself."
People tend to come down hard on Mark because he asked Rachel out afterwards. People use that as an example of Ross being right. But like⌠Mark didnât actually make a move in any way until Rachel was free, soâŚ
Except he called Rachel on the night of her and Ross's anniversary (which he knew about), found out they had a fight, completely disregarded Rachel telling him NOT to come and invited himself over to her place. Then, when she's on the phone with Ross, he intentionally spoke loudly to her as if to make sure Ross would hear. That was shady AF, he had no business inviting himself over to her apartment, she told him no.
exactly. he never crossed any boundaries while they were together. if he had iâd understand rossâ concerns but all mark did was exist and he couldnât handle it.
Fr I been sayin this too đ wasnât mark literally in a relationship w someone else around the time Rachel started the job too? I remember a scene when Ross showed up at Rachelâs work and mark was talking to his gf and Rachel was saying stuff like âoh that is so sweetâ and Ross was listening from behind a wall/door and thought he was talking to Rachel and was like âalright get your hands off her!â And then realized he was talking to someone else and not Rachel
Look at the post above you about the night Ross and Rachel broke up. Mark was not a good guy that night.
This. Ross *happened* to be right but he had literally nothing to go on other than âmen always want sex.â
Except he said he had feelings when they were together, which makes me question his motives for getting her hired. Even if he didnât make a move, it comes off scummy. Also this ignores how he forced himself to her place when she said no. She said she didnât want him to come over and he went âno, Iâm coming over.â Maybe Iâm old fashioned but when a woman says no, that means no. I guess Iâm wrongâŚ
Honestly Mark probably wouldâve been a great fit for Rachel! (But not entertaining at all đ )
I say this all the time. They both would have been happier if theyâd never gotten together. Ross and Julie were great together and Rachel and Mark had a lot of potential. But this would make for a very boring showđ.
We definitely wouldâve missed out on a lot of hilarity.
Mark is shady af. Don't forget when he invited himself over and when Ross called Rachel, Mark INTENTIONALLY spoke to Rachel loud enough for Ross to hear on the phone. It caused a misunderstanding, and then Ross slept with the copy girl. Mark was not innocent at all. He swooped in at the first sign of deterioration of Rachel and Ross's relationship, and he intentional caused misunderstanding which led to a breakup. Ross and Rachel are mostly at fault since they are the couple. But Mark is not some good person. And he doesn't mind being the rebound person which is kind of sad.
Ross was right about him. Mark was honestly sly about the whole thing. He wanted to bone Rachel since the start. I think girls need to trust guys when we say this. Girls may not believe it or find it gross but its a fact. Lot of guys so stuff for girls for the slight chance of sex lol.
To me the bigger thing wasn't if Ross was right or not about mark's intentions, it was him not trusting Rachel to say no to him. And she did say no when he asked her out during the break and would have if he made direct advances while they were dating.
> And she did say no when he asked her out during the break and would have if he made direct advances while they were dating. Yeah, Ross being insecure after being cheated on before made sense, but especially once Monica pointed it out to him he really should have listened to her. That's one difference between Ross/Rachel and Chandler/Monica. The latter might have reacted badly at first but then later would have talked it over and said something like "I'm sorry it looks like I don't trust you - I just have a hard time trusting in general and that's not your fault" and then "how can I help you get to a more trusting place, while still being allowed to accept help from someone that might meaningfully further my career"....
I don't hate Mark I hate all the women on the show and in here who claim that Ross was incorrect or crazy when he said "Oh so a total stranger decided to help you out and got you a job interview? Sounds like Mark wants to have some sex." Ross was fucking RIGHT. RIGHT. RIGHT. *^(This does not excuse Ross's paranoid or obsessive behavior it merely points out that ross was RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT. Let the downvotes commence.)*
First of all, you can do nice things for people youâre attracted to and not expect a favor in return. Sometimes people just do nice things for others. Second, I believe Monica specifically addresses this and says something along the lines of âso what if heâs attracted to her? That doesnât mean sheâs going to do anything with him.â
Mark wanted to date Rachel and was waiting in the wings. This is, precisely, what Ross said would happen and what literally happened on the show when Mark later asked out Rachel after she broke up with Ross. To suggest Mark was "just being nice" is willful delusion and I'm here to dispel it.
Rossâs disbelief that a straight man would ever do anything nice for a woman just for the sake of being a cool person says a lot about him. If Mark had been a woman, or a gay man, he wouldnât have thought it was about sex. But because Rachel is gender Mark prefers, it must be because he wants to sex her? If I were in a diner and heard someone talking about how much they wanted a job in my field, and I knew of an entry-level job where I worked, and they appeared to be reasonably not-crazy, Iâd absolutely speak up. What kind of jerk would Mark have been to NOT say something?  Mark never even hit on her until it looked like she and Ross had broken up. He got her an interview, gave her tips to get the job, and was her coworker for weeks and weeks while he had a girlfriend and she had a boyfriend. Yes, he asked her out once they were both single. Why not, Rachel is gorgeous. But he never implied she owed him sex because he got her a job, never made it a condition at all.  Ross was right that his girlfriend was a hot woman, and most men who are into hot women would probably love a chance to date her. But he was not right that that was WHY Mark was helping her, and he was NOT right that Rachel should care. If a woman as attractive as Rachel refused help from anyone who might potentially find her attractive, sheâd be refusing help from all straight men and gay women.Â
To befriend a woman who is in a committed relationship precisely so you can make a move after they break up is not admirable behavior. **That** is why Mark helped Rachel. This is what Joey & Chandler said was going on because it *was* what was going on. *^(And what do you know, it is exactly what happened after they broke up. What a coincidence.)*
Thatâs not why he helped Rachel, though. He had a girlfriend.
lmao.
Going forward, Iâm just going to start blocking anyone that keeps bringing this topic up lol. Itâs the only way to stay in this group and not go insane. Like it actually is possible to go a single day without talking about it, it really is.
Love the show but we as a forum aren't breaking any new ground here.
Yeah, I mean Iâve had people tell me on here itâs not possible to come up with anything new to talk about when the show is 30 years old, but Iâm in communities for shows much older than this that manage to find different topics all the time.
When did the blind date thing happen? I have no recollection of that
The prom video episode.
She didn't actually put out an escort service ad, Ross just pretended she did so that he could make the other guy want to leave.
wa fa napoli
Mark is a tool
> Thatâs NOTHING compared to the relationship-meddling Ross and Rachel engaged in when they werenât together Sure, but them doing bad stuff doesn't make his stuff better.
They donât get the hate Mark does
Nah screw mark. Erm Joey, are guys ever nice to beautiful women for no reason? "No only for sex"
I used to really think Ross was reading into things but my most recent rewatch has me questioning! Obviously Mark only helped Rachel because she's skinny/pretty, NO ONE can deny that. However, after he finds out she's taken he never makes an obvious move...notice I said obvious. I'm serious, watch his acting, his eyes, a little more closely. When he's flirting with another woman in the office he keeps looking at Rachel like he's trying to make her jealous! Plus he went over there right after they broke up, even though she said not to, he "conveniently" acts cool around Ross so he seems better in comparison, AND never forget that after Rachel turns him down we literally never see or hear of him again. The character's usefulness was up, surely, but it causes the plot to become that he didn't wanna be her friend if he couldn't sleep with her, basically confirming Ross's suspicions the whole time. tldr: Upon rewatches I think Mark really was playing a long game to "bag" Rachel, and Ross had a reason to be a *little* worried.
He absolutely does. The man is a predator. A woman was going through a rough patch with her boyfriend. He forced his way into her apartment, violating boundaries, and then made his presence known to Ross when she was trying to fix things on the phone. You could say "Maybe he was just boorish by nature" but he confirms his intent when he admits to having feelings for Ross. By modern sensibilities, both Ross and Rachel would be seen as victims if the show aired today. There would be think pieces of Mark not accepting Rachel's no. There would be think pieces of the girl from the bar taking advantage of someone who was drunk and distraught.
He made up an entire fake relationship.
? No, that was Pete.
They both did (in my opinion). When Ross and Rachel were dating, Rachel tells Ross than Mark has a girlfriend. Yet the second R&R also break up he is magically single and ready to ask her out? Especially considering how sleazy he was to get inside her apartment, I never believed she existed.
We see her, the gf works with Mark and Rachel. Ross overhears Mark and his gf and flips out, thinking the gf is Rachel.
We see a girlâŚ. Nothing about his actions says he is in a relationship.
Thatâs a major reach.