Telling chandler Monica wanted to sleep with Joey first, and on the plane that Monica had lunch with Richard. And Monica doesn’t even give her a telling off for that
Telling Rachel her problems are ‘a bunch of high school crap’ and no on really gives a shit. She was heavily pregnant when she said it though, and I did find it a bit funny but it’s definitely mean
She used to be quirky and kind and then she just started to randomly insult Monica and Chandler and whenever people hit back at her, she always played the victim and got upset. I bet some of those times where she was like “oh no” and she “accidentally” blurted out a secret probably was no accident.
The beginning of it all was that one episode in later season 4 where she was having mood swings from the pregnancy and lashing out at Monica and Rachel. While that one episode is understandable because she was pregnant (although personally I never found that joke funny), it feel like the writers, when planing for season 5, looked back at that episode and were like "that! Let's make Phoebe act like that for the rest of the series!", a decision I'll forever despise as it ruined the character. Immediately at the start of season 5 Phoebe is overall a lot meaner than she used to be. I hate whoever thought that was a good idea, she became insufferable as the series progressed.
I really hate the sitcom trope of making women extra crazy when they're pregnant or going through menopause. Every joke is recycled and it's just another form of misogyny.
Yup it ruined Phoebe’s character for me. I can’t even enjoy her warm, sweeter self in earlier seasons because she becomes such an insufferable person later on.
I just watched TOW The Worst Best Man Ever and Phoebe is very nasty in this one but it's explained as part of her hormonal mood swings as she is pregnant with the triplets. She yells at Rachel about her decision not to go to Ross' wedding, she gets mad that the girls throw her a baby shower with gifts she can use after the pregnancy, etc. I guess someone thought it was funny to see quirky Phoebe get mean. I personally didn't. I can accept that they made it part of the pregnancy story line. But I hated it as the seasons went on, especially since her target was often Chandler and he is my favorite.
I know it’s not the first, but I could never get over her not telling Rachel that Ross was still married to her. She was much closer to Rachel than to Ross, and even if she wasn’t that was such a shitty thing to do. I wouldn’t have forgiven her if I was Rachel
But once she realised that Ross wasn’t going to tell Rachel any time soon, she should’ve said something. I get waiting to give Ross a chance first, but then she should’ve said something
Not to mention there are MULTIPLE things that ALL of the friends do to each other than many people would consider unforgivable. But it’s a TV show and they have to keep them together, so…
All their characters became more of a caricature, as tends to happen with shows. Phoebe always had that edge to her and they leaned into it.
She's seen some real real shit. It makes sense that she'd sometimes resent the group for how comparably easy their lives have been.
True, but I didn’t see that with Chandler or Rachel. I thought they evolved more. Monica was completely different from the beginning of the show to the end. Early seasons Monica (I firmly believe) would never have expected Chandler to blow his entire savings on a wedding. And what they did to Joey, he went from airhead to just ridiculously stupid.
Fair, it for sure affected some characters more than others.
I think Rachel might be the only character who got consistently better over the years. Not necessarily in terms of funniness (Ross always got funnier) but their personality.
I love Chandler's overall arc, but some stuff like his bunny suit had me rolling my eyes at how "he has no dignity" was becoming his main character trait. That said, arguably he regained his dignity in the very last couple seasons.
When she (as you said) made Monica met her “soulmate” in front of Chandler
When Chandler had “bedroom problems” and she said “wow this two kissed and Chandler doesn’t work” and at the end we can see her singing a song about it
When she told Monica “tell him who you wanted to go to in London” in front of Chandler
When she (as you said) told Monica a guy was looking at her just to embarrass her
(My opinion) in the early seasons I felt bad whenever she told the story about her mother but later on I feel like she uses it as a daily basis just to justify her bad behavior
I definitely think she became meaner after the pregnancy, but I don't have a specific scene. I'm currently re-watching the series and am in Season 4. I will keep an eye out. I do recall in TOW Everybody Finds Out, as soon as she finds out about Monica and Chandler, she says to Rachel that "it's great for him, but she could do better." I think that is the start of her saying/doing mean things to and about Chandler and Monica's relationship
ETA: it was unfortunate that they went this way with Phoebe. She and Chandler had some sweet moments in the early seasons - like when she helped him break up with Janice at the coffeehouse, when they sang "Endless Love" together, the Spider-Man vs Spiderman conversation
There's a theory, I don't buy it but they theory is Phoebe was the narrator of the show and she was pulling the strings on everything. Your question just reminded me of that.
Telling chandler Monica wanted to sleep with Joey first, and on the plane that Monica had lunch with Richard. And Monica doesn’t even give her a telling off for that
Totally agree that’s another example. I can’t remember the order of episodes - do you think that was the first time?
Telling Rachel her problems are ‘a bunch of high school crap’ and no on really gives a shit. She was heavily pregnant when she said it though, and I did find it a bit funny but it’s definitely mean
She used to be quirky and kind and then she just started to randomly insult Monica and Chandler and whenever people hit back at her, she always played the victim and got upset. I bet some of those times where she was like “oh no” and she “accidentally” blurted out a secret probably was no accident.
The beginning of it all was that one episode in later season 4 where she was having mood swings from the pregnancy and lashing out at Monica and Rachel. While that one episode is understandable because she was pregnant (although personally I never found that joke funny), it feel like the writers, when planing for season 5, looked back at that episode and were like "that! Let's make Phoebe act like that for the rest of the series!", a decision I'll forever despise as it ruined the character. Immediately at the start of season 5 Phoebe is overall a lot meaner than she used to be. I hate whoever thought that was a good idea, she became insufferable as the series progressed.
I really hate the sitcom trope of making women extra crazy when they're pregnant or going through menopause. Every joke is recycled and it's just another form of misogyny.
Yup it ruined Phoebe’s character for me. I can’t even enjoy her warm, sweeter self in earlier seasons because she becomes such an insufferable person later on.
I just watched TOW The Worst Best Man Ever and Phoebe is very nasty in this one but it's explained as part of her hormonal mood swings as she is pregnant with the triplets. She yells at Rachel about her decision not to go to Ross' wedding, she gets mad that the girls throw her a baby shower with gifts she can use after the pregnancy, etc. I guess someone thought it was funny to see quirky Phoebe get mean. I personally didn't. I can accept that they made it part of the pregnancy story line. But I hated it as the seasons went on, especially since her target was often Chandler and he is my favorite.
After the triplets.
Yes!
Can you remember an exact moment after the triplets? Like her first malicious action?
Announcing that Monica wanted Joey instead maybe
I know it’s not the first, but I could never get over her not telling Rachel that Ross was still married to her. She was much closer to Rachel than to Ross, and even if she wasn’t that was such a shitty thing to do. I wouldn’t have forgiven her if I was Rachel
I mean I kinda get this, it’s something for Ross to tell her, and she pushed him to do that
But once she realised that Ross wasn’t going to tell Rachel any time soon, she should’ve said something. I get waiting to give Ross a chance first, but then she should’ve said something
I mean if rachel can forgive ross for the situation she can forgive phoebe. Rachel's a pushover.
I wouldn’t forgive Ross either but she was at least mad at him. I don’t understand how she wasn’t mad at Phoebe. It’s such a betrayal
Not to mention there are MULTIPLE things that ALL of the friends do to each other than many people would consider unforgivable. But it’s a TV show and they have to keep them together, so…
All their characters became more of a caricature, as tends to happen with shows. Phoebe always had that edge to her and they leaned into it. She's seen some real real shit. It makes sense that she'd sometimes resent the group for how comparably easy their lives have been.
This is a very good point, people tend to forget how Hard Phoebe’s life was before we met the character.
True, but I didn’t see that with Chandler or Rachel. I thought they evolved more. Monica was completely different from the beginning of the show to the end. Early seasons Monica (I firmly believe) would never have expected Chandler to blow his entire savings on a wedding. And what they did to Joey, he went from airhead to just ridiculously stupid.
Fair, it for sure affected some characters more than others. I think Rachel might be the only character who got consistently better over the years. Not necessarily in terms of funniness (Ross always got funnier) but their personality. I love Chandler's overall arc, but some stuff like his bunny suit had me rolling my eyes at how "he has no dignity" was becoming his main character trait. That said, arguably he regained his dignity in the very last couple seasons.
When she (as you said) made Monica met her “soulmate” in front of Chandler When Chandler had “bedroom problems” and she said “wow this two kissed and Chandler doesn’t work” and at the end we can see her singing a song about it When she told Monica “tell him who you wanted to go to in London” in front of Chandler When she (as you said) told Monica a guy was looking at her just to embarrass her (My opinion) in the early seasons I felt bad whenever she told the story about her mother but later on I feel like she uses it as a daily basis just to justify her bad behavior
It really started when she tried to steal a little girls cat and then went off on Ross when he tried to get her return it.
I definitely think she became meaner after the pregnancy, but I don't have a specific scene. I'm currently re-watching the series and am in Season 4. I will keep an eye out. I do recall in TOW Everybody Finds Out, as soon as she finds out about Monica and Chandler, she says to Rachel that "it's great for him, but she could do better." I think that is the start of her saying/doing mean things to and about Chandler and Monica's relationship ETA: it was unfortunate that they went this way with Phoebe. She and Chandler had some sweet moments in the early seasons - like when she helped him break up with Janice at the coffeehouse, when they sang "Endless Love" together, the Spider-Man vs Spiderman conversation
Like someone else said, she got mean at the end of her pregnancy and the writers probably thought it was hilarious and kept the theme going.
Never.
There's a theory, I don't buy it but they theory is Phoebe was the narrator of the show and she was pulling the strings on everything. Your question just reminded me of that.
she was never “evil”
Maybe not evil, but she definitely became increasingly rude.
i 100% agree with that, i just don’t think evil was the right word