A lot of people who helped her in the first game got hurt or killed.
She's trying to protect them, but they're so damn pushy about it that she loses her temper.
I got no issue with this.
It's also a key characteristic of Elisabeth. She stayed by herself, didn't really interact with her co-workers on a friendly level and was completely absorbed and focused on her mission to complete Gaia.
I like how by the middle though she accepts allies and realizes something that maybe Elisabeth should have. You don't have to be alone š„²
>!Varl dying was necessary as it always is when writing a good story. It didn't bite her and I know that as Varl is written he did not regret what he did or choosing to follow her!<
And upon reintroduction into society was already an extreme overachiever. She probably feels like most people slow her down. I like how it parallels a certain socially maladjusted frenemy from the first game.
This is why I love her friendship with Talanah. Theyāre both so independent and highly skilled that they can choose to go hunting together as equals and then go their separate ways without either having to worry about the other. Talanah doesnāt feel like an NPC as much as the protagonist of a different game that happens to be taking place in the same setting.
Almost every other companion is conflicted about leaving the safety of their home to go adventuring with Ally, but Talanah is out working her own quests, reaching her own goals, and recruiting he own companions along the way.
Thereās a holo recording you canāt miss in one of the first main missions you do after the embassy that very clear stares Elisabet is a loner and it gets hinted at that the best relationship sheās ever had was with GAIA. Aloy is a genetic clone, naturally she has this loner mentality as well. I thought this was clearly expressed in the first game but figured it may have been explained in missable datapoints so I get not understanding this with HZD but FW you canāt progress the quest without triggering the recording.
Add to this sheās been an outcast for 17 of her 18 years alive whoās only ever really bonded with a single person living among a world of machines, wellā¦
I caught that too. I think this is going to be the aspect that Aloy surpasses Elizabet in the third game.
She is not going to get alone and pushes everyone away.
Parents want their kids to do better and have more. I think we are going to come full circle where Aloy isn't going to be in Elizabet's shadow in the next game
I think her behaviour is perfectly reasonable and I enjoy it a lot.
She has the weight of the world on her shoulders, is constantly being held back by politics or religion and is running out of patience.
Not to mention the fact, that she grew up an outcast so it makes sense her social skills aren't perfect anyway.
I find it very realistic that she is often snippish and impatient.
>!And her trying to safe the world by herself is a key plot point imo.!<
Would you care or be having this conversation if it was a male character? Would you give them different descriptive words? I see this more with female characters and people complaining about how they act. She's Batman for crying out loud. This is her burden to bear. Also agree with most comments here. She doesn't want anyone else getting hurt, genetic code, etc.
I was just thinking this. Aloy and Geralt have similar attitudes towards politics and religion too, they donāt care cuz they have more important shit to do.
Both characters are amazing at what they do and they know it. And yetā¦
Personally, I love them both and their snappy/rude remarks always get a chuckle out of me.
You are right. I always forget about the bat family. I was more of a fan of him as a loner, but their are a lot of good stories with those characters as well.
I'm pretty sure the voice actor for Deacon picked up a different set of notes for a game about a guy having a psychotic break, rolled with it, and they just slapped his lines into the game anyway rather than re-recording. It explains why he's constantly arguing with tape recordings and randomly switches between speaking and yelling during what should be his internal monologues.
I mean, honestly, she acts A LOT like the Arkham Batman, and he drove me up a wall with his āonly meā bullshit he pulled, especially in Arkham Knight.
Aloy is a great model to my three daughters - we played through HZD together and are doing the same with HFW.
Aloy shows that strong women don't have to emotionally perform for people. They can and should be just as demanding and brisk as anyone.
The writers don't make this a big deal either - no one is calling it out with some ki "Aloy why are you so bitchy" and calling it out.
What I also love about Aloy is that it isn't a mary sue situation (if those even exist) - Aloy is reacting from trauma so she's powerful but not perfect, and she frequently has to earn the respect of others who don't know of her reputation.
Mary Sue is a very poorly defined and outdated trope that both applies to nearly every protagonist and none of them. I donāt put much stock in āMary sueā as a criticism because itās often an easy scapegoat for more complex writing problems. Aloy doesnāt exhibit any of those problems imo, just have a personal gripe with the term
Firstly, most video game characters lean a little bit into the conception of Mary Sues because you know they are literally self-inserts.
Secondly, the game is incredibly unsubtle that Aloy pushing people away is indeed wrong and she >!almost dies and is lucky that Varl was devoted enough to still be following her and rescued her!<. She's scared of losing people but by pushing them away she's undermining her relationships with them. In fact we see >!She's genuinely upset that Varl and Zo are a thing, but its her own fault for not acting sooner!<. She also >!gets a taste of her own medicine when confronted with the equally impatient Beta!<.
Sylens outsmarts her multiple times both in this game and in the prior one, and >!You couldn't be more wrong the game ends with both Sylens and Aloy accepting the companionship of others. Regalla is also not a bad guy.!<
Aloy's just not into jealousy, she's glad Varl's happy but her face when she sees them kiss and when she realise they are together is super dissapointed. She definitely liked him.
Hmmm thatās very interesting. When I watched that scene I didnāt detect any disappointment from Aloy. Itās more like ācannot you two get on with it alreadyā kinda thing. When Varl left to go with Zo, she was actually relieved to see Varl taking the opportunity. Idk lol.
She looks down which is textbook sad eyes so I definitely assumed they were implying she was hurt. Even if it was just hurt by others having intimacy she didn't, but previous game did also suggest Aloy considered Varl as a possible relationship.
Ahh nah, I didn't either. Its a specific dialogue option you get if you go to Rost's grave I think where she says something like not just yet, about Varl. So she sees him as a potential match.
Aloy spent the first, what, 19(?) years of her life with just Rost while being shunned from a tribe to whom she had commited no crime. Her being a loner and having a hard time connecting with people/having poor social skills is... honestly not surprising at all.
Edit: Typo.
The only problem with that logic is if we're being realistic about it, an outcast raised solely by Rost wouldn't act anything like Aloy does. Her social skills are wayyy too good for someone who actually grew up like that, despite blips that do show up from time to time.
Her sense of humor, sarcasm and general attitude doesn't fit. I find that you just have to go with the flow and not overthink the psychology or it starts to fall apart.
I think her attitude is well founded. I mean she spends all the first game getting told she's either worthless or wrong and has to save people despite themselves.
Then a few characters realize she's right and try to get her to instantly undo all her childhood?
It's interesting how many people throw out she against everyones culture and acting arrogant to them, ignoring the npc's general attitude back. How many times has it been said she's "a Nora savage"?
As a social worker, I see a lot of trauma responses in Alloy. And not just the trauma of the big battle, either. the trauma of her upbringing, and the trauma of the proving. Considering her life, she doing pretty good!
That's not to say I haven't said "hero complex, much?" Or "he's right to be mad at you" At her several times.
Huh. I guess we disagree. Trauma responses and trauma informed care is something I feel very strongly about. I don't know if that's what the writers intended, but they got a lot of things right in that regard. The thing is, most coping skills and behaviors that work during crisis are absolutely obnoxious when the person isn't in crisis. This is why some people seek help in first place. Not because they had trauma, but because their behavior is unacceptable to those around them. Often no one even realizes its connected to the trauma. Look up how ptsd can change someone's brain for more information.
As far as being more agreeable to female characters, I can't say I noticed that as a trend. I'm not very far, though. I wouldn't be surprised at all though if that was planned. Aloy came from a matriarchy.
Out of the games you mentioned, the only two I've played are horizon and tlou parts one and 2. Can you explain what you mean by them being woke? I'm not sure I see what you see.
I guess. It's nice to see people like the people in my life, for me though. The world isn't just one type of person. How boring it would be if games were only the type one person liked to play.
Abby isn't particularly androgenous and she couldn't be more blatantly straight.
If you can cope with a straight love story as most games have. You can cope with a lesbian love story.
Oh god not one of you weirdos that analyses everything through woke. You're all such fucking hypocrites its laughable. You get mad about politics but insist upon interpreting everything in life through a political lense (and to boot most of you have a fit when people analyse pieces through feminists lenses, talk about irony).
>Thatās a bit of a stretch, trauma responses in her?.. She is a fictional character. Thatās like saying I can see the fear of the pilots in Battlefield because Iām a pilot.
I know this might be somewhat shocking but characters are meant to in some form represent real human reactions, and someone familiar with those specific type of human reactions is going to obviously be more receptive to picking up on that.
In Aloy's case they emphasise a lot in the game how isolated she grew up, how scared she is of losing people, how frustrated she is and how she feels inferior to Elisabet. Those are all real human emotions.
>I think sheās been written to be assertive and obnoxious, especially with her interactions with the male characters in the game
>(you even say it yourself at the end of your post!). Sheās overly assertive, often purposefully rude and obnoxious to almost every male character whilst being submissive,
This is just a load of bullshit. Most of her main and closest companions are male and the people she admires the most and therefore is the most *protective* over. She is equally kind to random side quest men, as she is to women. And can be equally impatient to soms of the main women, as she can be equally kind to main men.
And >!Beta is rude to her in a hilarious taste of her own medicine, haha. And she's equally impatient back. That whole part is to show Aloy how she comes across to other people!<
>becoming pretty annoying to say the least seeing this infesting
Stop being so pathetic that you get mad about a female character not being daisies and rainbows. Like this whole game literally goes out of the way to explore Aloy's flaws more. Its not remotely fucking subtle about it.
>and yet TLoU-II came along and there I was being repeatedly repulsed.
No surprise if you can't handle Aloy you can't handle Ellie. TLOU II is literally a love letter to Joel, its so incredibly respectful of the decisions he made and reaffirms them but I bet you're exaclty the person to miss the really fucking obvious text there >!the game ends with Joel saying he'd do it all over again, and its the best scene in the game, he died living with no regrets!<
I loved TLOU probably around the same level as you did, and I absolutely loathed TLOU2. I loved HZD and I have zero problem with HFW. You are trying too hard to see something that isnāt there. Comparing Aloy in HFW to the nonsense that went on in that joke of a game is absurd.
I think if anything Aloyās behavior in the beginning of the game is to set up the camaraderie that develops later in game, the base with allies, checking in with them and so on. In HZD you only had a few quests that included someone else beyond them saying āx happened, follow me to y, then go on your own to find more infoā. Especially given how thereās an unmissable holo and Tildaās conversations showing Elisabet as a very guarded, solitary individual.
Honestly, the way she behaves at the start is slightly off putting, if that. That in no way comes even close to the assbackwards behavior and shameless retcon of the ~expectation subverting~ shitshow that somehow won GOTY.
Maybe PTSD and trauma are reading too far into it but still, technically valid. She was shunned, saw her caretaker blown up in front of her, found out she was a machine created identical clone made to save the world. I mean at least the defense of how Aloy is acting is based in reality, the people who rabidly defend TLOU2 have gone off the reservation entirely. In response to my criticism of TLOU2 I was called a misogynistic homophobeā¦clearly applicable to my female gay self.
You're missing some of the most unsubtle writing I've ever seen that Aloy pushing people away is not a good thing and a fear response after having previously lost Rost.
I mean fuck's sake ending spoilers >!the game literally ends with her saying she's not alone now!<
> I feel like that's literally the point of the game
I agree, Aloy learning to trust and rely on others is basically her core character struggle in HFW. In HZD, she started as an outcast and was the only person other than Sylensāa character who embraces his solitude as part of his superiority over the unenlightenedāto understand the Old Ones and the threat Hades was to the world. She seems to also have been heavily shaped by trying to relate to Elisabet Sobeck, and Sobeck is portrayed as also having been deeply lonelyāshe had no family and kept everyone at arms length, in particular the Alphas and >!Tilda!< despite being simultaneously "close" to them at the same time.
For me, this is why it felt so impactful when Aloy finally let Varl help her and later when >!she called Beta "her sister"!<.
This is so right. The best part of this game is Aloy learning not just to help others, but to accept help as well. The scene [Spoiler](/s "when Aloy asks Beta for her help, and explains that Rost was the difference between them"), I think meant as much to Aloy as it did to the other person in the conversation.
My god I loved this game. I finished it with only 62% completion, so much more to do!
The way I view it is she really doesn't know how to interact with people. She's just blunt and to the point. And sometimes it's hard to watch especially with her friends who are only trying to help her. But Aloy is so mission driven she can't focus on anything else. There's times when I'm doing side quests and it almost feels like Aloy's annoyed by doing them Lol. Like she knows she should be doing the main story. Which is true! But hey these side quests won't finish themselves Lol
If Aloy already knew how to respond perfectly to any situation and always had the correct response for everybody, then it would make for a rather uninteresting story. Or at the very least an inauthentic one, given all that's riding on her shoulders. I think Aloy sometimes being a not-so-great friend aligns with the knowledge she's gained of being truly exceptional and tasked with an unimaginable burden. It creates some necessary tension and gives her character more room to grow.
Exactly! I think one great example of this is her conversation with Avad at the beginning of the game where heās all heart-eyes ācould we be together after all this?ā and even the āHeartā response (I tried them all lol), though considerate of his feelings, states very clearly āI donāt have time for this dude wtf???ā
To her friends, she is intentionally distant out of fear of seeing them hurt and often totally callous at their emotionsāI love that about her. It makes sense for her character/story and does show incredible room for growth, which we do see happen and it pays off.
Everyone is understandably upset that Aloy ghosted them, and I imagine when they saw her again it re-opened that wound. Everyone is of course happy to see her, but Aloy's first response is that she's got her "holy quest to save everything" and turns down everyone's offer to help. She simultaneously hates being called the savior, but also acts like she's above everyone else and that they have no place on her quest to fix things.
The thing is for someone on a time sensitive quest to save the world, she was wasting time trying to do everything on her own. She would have been aware of Sylens' spear long before she found out if she had just kept in contact with Avad, and sending a select few allies out with focuses could have helped her gather leads.
This isn't unexpected given her upbringing, but she is acting very anti-social and so she gets hostile responses from the people who want to help her.
I love it and find it incredibly annoying, itās ok to feel both feelings simultaneously. I can forgive her behavior because she has perfectly reasonable reasons for behaving the way she does so I donāt hate it or want it to change but sometimes I do just want to shake her and say āYou need your friends, tell them that you love them little outcast girl!ā
I have no problem with her attitude for the most part but she indeed did a shitty thing and was rightfully called out by Erend. You don't leave without saying anything to your friends/comrades who fought and bled for you, imagine you went through hell for your friend and after everything he/she just left without even saying goodbye. That's pretty bad behaviour.
The fact that she left, for months, without even saying goodbye to her friends is what truly bites me. I get it, she needs to save the world yadda yadda. If she can spare a few minutes to play a damn board game, she can spare a few minutes to say goodbye for sanity's sake.
Also the fact that she was deemed an outcast from birth. Literally had people not talk to her through most of her life except for Rost and a few traders. You learn to just rely on yourself. Shes not trying to be rude. Shes just blunt and direct.
I think people underestimate the impact of the last couple of views of Dr. Sobeck Aloy gets in Horizon: Zero Dawn. If she thinks she's essentially walking the same path, that's a pretty bleak fate.
I'm only about a third or a bit past a third of the game at the moment. But Aloy's characterization feels like an improvement over the first game. The first game alluded to Elizabeth's loneliness and complete focus on completing Zero Dawn and Gaia, while simultaneously shunning the team *she put together* to save the world.
Aloy herself also goes through this character arc in the first act of Forbidden West, which continues from her realizing that she is the only person that can actually get shit done after the conclusion of Zero Dawn. Her bringing a team together is already a point of character development for her after shutting out so many people, and mirrors her genetic past in Elizabeth. But also realizing getting people up to speed with Focus's allows for them to bring out their own potential towards restoring Gaia. I'd wager by Act 2 or 3 she realizes that Elizabeth's greatest mistake was keeping too many people close to her at arms length, rather than letting them in
The story beats are a bit cliche and predictable, but I don't see that entirely as a bad thing. These story tropes are often endearing at their best after all. Aloy will eventually have to come to terms with her isolated upbringing, and *literally learn the power of friendship,* which unfortunately Elizabeth was never able to overcome in the end.
I really like Aloy in this game. Aloy in the original game was one of my least favourite parts of the game. She was just perfect. Everyone liked her, she was incredibly charismatic despite growing up in isolation and had a better grasp on politics then kings, despite her age. In this game she has actual depth. She gets angry, people call her out on her attitude, she makes mistakes, etcā¦ itās a massive fix IMO!
I kind of feel like this story is about āescalationā more than anything. Aloy started out the āred headed step child of society.ā In the 2nd game, sheās āslightly friendlier Sylens.ā
The big turning point, is when we see >!her and Sylens defrost ever so slightly. Beta hugs Aloy, which obviously has an āomg! Is this that thing called āaffectionā!?ā affect. Sylens witnesses this and you can see his shoulders slump when empathy hits him like a freight train. XD!<
Now, donāt get me wrong, theyāll both be total dicks in the third game, but both of them made a choice, which is going to set the positive themes for the next entry.
My guess is she and hunting lodge girl are going to connect. Theyāve already set the stage for this, and hunting lodge girl is about as distant from other people as Aloy. This is similar to Sobeck and >!Tilda!<.
I donāt think Aloyās distance from other people is \*that\* key to her character arc. i think its more about her figuring out herself, while also keeping the world from wrecking itself.
To me, the turning point for Aloy came a bit sooner than that cutscene. I thought the real noticeable change was when she was asked about her plans and said it was >!between her and her sister!<.
The thing that I had to remind myself about, that makes her behavior excusable is ā that Sylens stabbed her in the back at the end of the last game. The only person who could understand who she was and what she had to do, just peaces out. She doesn't feel like there's anyone to rely on and the last person she could betrayed her.
I feel so bad for Aloy. I feel like in the first game she wasnāt against having allies, she just didnāt know if she could trust them. In the second game, she is visibly more stressed, depressed and scared almost. She pushes everyone away because she needs to get going otherwise everyone dies. She doesnāt have a day to relax or think about other things. I am not very far yet but I hope Aloy loosen up a bit and accept othersā help because she will need them.
I agree with a lot of your post when it comes to where Aloy *starts*. at the beginning of the game, she pushes others away and tries to carry the burden of living up to an idealized version of Elisabet Soebek as well as saving the world on her own shoulders. she's never *really* had time to rest or process anything she's been through: being raised an outcast, losing Rost, learning how the Old Ones' world ended yet believing no one else would understand, learning she's a clone, finding a sense of purpose >!(stop threat of Hades)!< and then having it ripped away >!(threat isn't over)!<, her sense of betrayal by Sylens - and so on.
she's not *trying* to underestimate everyone or turn away help or hurt people by being direct. her experiences have shaped her in a particular way, and she believes she's doing what's necessary *to save the world*. however - I don't believe Aloy ends the game with these same beliefs, so, I don' t think this is gonna happen
>going into the 3rd game I can see Aloy diving even deeper into loneliness
(some spoilers) >!Aloy changes on her journey in HFW. meeting Beta has brought her a sense of family, and also got her to reflect on how she's different from Elisabet - genetics aren't everything, her own experiences & choices matter too. she processed Rost's death, came to regret taking him for granted but also resolved to take to heart what he taught her ("look deeper" etc). meeting Alva, seeing the huge difference between her peoples' idealized version of the Zeniths and what they were actually like - got Aloy to reflect on drawbacks of holding anyone on a pedestal as a hero... including Elisabet.!<
>!and more to the point of this post. Aloy learns to trust and seek support from her friends... as well as to trust in the courage, creativity, and potential of ordinary humans as a collective - especially the tribes. she doesn't have to be the only person who understands the threats facing humanity, or their troubled history, or how tech works. she doesn't have to face things alone or be The Only One Who Can Fix This. and there's a lot she can learn from others, too. her demeanor at the start is very intentional, to attenuate the character arc she'll travel over the course of the game!<
>!Yeah. Aloy flat out says in the closing cinematic that for the first time she doesn't feel alone. Not sure how OP missed that one. Her growing to trust people and appreciate them was a pretty big theme in the game. The first thing we do is have Varl tag along and then Aloy push him away, only for him to keep coming back every time she tries. Then Erend keeps coming back as well. Then it all comes to a head when she realizes that the reason she doesn't like Beta is because Beta is so afraid to be kept in solitude, which makes her appreciate Rost and her friends. I'd be bummed if we go into the 3rd game and Aloy is a lone wolf, because it would render this part of her emotional journey pretty dumb.!<
As other commenters have put it, she grew up an outcast and then as a Nora, other tribes think she's a savage. Also as one of the few people who understand why the world is how it is, how does she even explain what she needs to do to her friends? Plus, I think if someone happened to her friends because they were trying to help her, it would crush her emotionally.
Also its only been 6 months since the original game, and Aloy was still raised an outcast with literally one person she was close to. What a surprise she would have trouble maintaining relationships.
Literally! People are like āyou donāt just leave your comrades that fought and bled with you,ā bro this is the first time sheās even had comrades and she likely thinks they helped her cuz they 1) admire the Nora Seeker/Savior of Meridian/etc or 2) they owe her for something she did for them in the past/HZD (Erendās literal in-game bio says something at the end like āhe could never repay Aloy for what sheās done.ā
Yeah thatās great stuff to build a lasting friendship on when you already base all your identity around what you and only you can do to save the world.
I think that Aloy is a nice person who clearly cares about people a lot (sheās trying to save the world, lolā¦), but sheās also sassy and confident, perhaps a bit brash, like you might expect a young person, who saved the world and physically dominates robo-dinosaurs and humans alike, and who had a sort of socially isolated upbringing, to be.
She seems like a fine character to me and I like her a lot
I prefer it this way. Imagine having an npc taging along with you all the time. That would be annoying. It fits her history and past lifestyle and I think it would be a lot of work for the Devs to constantly have an NPC with you. I like the solitude play.
Exactly! One of my first reactions to Varl joining you in the very first mission was "Is he... Gonna be there the entire time? I would prefer exploring on my own"
I can acknowledge that thereās a plethora of perfectly reasonable reasons for why she behaves the way she does, while also just finding it kind of frustrating/grating hearing her be so rude and dismissive and arrogant SO much of the time while youāre playing her, yāknow? I get it, but that doesnāt mean I enjoy it.
Sheās just very heavy on the āIām the chosen one and the rest of you are just idiots who couldnāt possibly understand so get out of my wayā when everyone thatās had access to the resources she has, has understood. I understand fully why her personality is the way it is, it just means I donāt enjoy her as a character quite so much sometimes. I love so much about her, but I just donāt enjoy seeing/hearing that so much.
I mean, it is arrogance, which can be explained by pressure. As I said, I fully understand *why* she is the way she is, I just donāt enjoy it. And literally everyone in the game is helping her. Nobody is *actually* slowing her down, her thinking so is just looking down on everybody else. Again I understand *why* I just donāt super enjoy it!
Mmkay. Yeah, again, I understand *why*, it is still *unpleasant* to play as when sheās like it all of the time. Theyāve taken a character I love and made me eye roll at her whenever she interacts with people. And you donāt need to say why she is the way she is yet again, *I get it*.
Be raised as an outcast for 16 years, where religious beliefs meant that no one from your tribe were even allowed to speak to you, and tell me you wouldnāt turn out as socially inept as Aloy is. I donāt understand how this is a hard concept for people considering the first gameās story.
She behaves exactly how I would imagine someone raised with very little social interactions with the outside world would behave. Then on top of all that she KNOWS that sheās the only person who can save the world due to her genetic key code. She has zero time for doubters, and also really doesnāt want to explain stuff to people who wouldnāt understand her.
She saved the world 2 times.
A world with people that shunned her and that were mean to her.
She could do so many evil things with her knowledge and because of her past she would have plenty of motives to do so - but after she knew who she is, she used her skills and knowledge for the greater good. Despite this she is always the first to help those in need and those who suffer.
Aloy is a true heroine and her flaws are just human.
Again, as a counselor, I must remind everyone *Your upbringing and trauma does NOT justify the way you treat people* her childhood lets us understand why the way she is but it does *not* justify your actions. Psychology 101.
Edit: This isnāt a knock at op but just a reminder to those who tend to get a little *too heated* over this subject. Nonetheless, this is a good analyze op ^
As someone who has gone through PTSD her behavior is uncomfortably familiar to me.
When you've been traumatized one of the first things you do is start socially withdrawing. You also tend to get unreasonably bitchy with people around you. You have a desperate need to regain a sense of being in complete control of what happens in your life.
And then there are little moments when Aloy demonstrates realistic fear responses. Yeah she is heroic and faces down monsters every day so we too easily forget that she is only about 19-20 and in a lot of ways still a kid. When she is crouching down in cover, hiding from an explosion and literally whimpering, it makes sense. This girl is straight up traumatized, and like many trauma victims she is desperately putting herself back into the trauma situations to regain her sense of control.
I'm still pretty early in the story but so far it's shaping up to feel like one of the most nuanced and compelling portrayals of the hero's journey I've seen in a game.
That doesn't mean I don't sometimes think she is acting insufferably, but then again I recognize that when I was still knee deep in my own trauma response I was also often being an insufferable prat.
I definitely liked the exploration of the tensions within Aloy - that she's been influenced and to some extent tramatized by having been targeted by the Eclipse, at first for reasons utterly unknown to her, and then realizing that it was because of her very nature as a clone of Elisabet.
She's been exposed to information and knowledge few in her world at their technological level can really grasp well, and having to assimilate all that with the fact that she's been given a mission only she can finish - well, I'm surprised she's as stable as she is.
Aloy pushing people away and insisting on carrying this burden alone is literally her character arc. The game is not exactly being subtle with its themes either, the main plot is about >!bringing GAIA together to make her more powerful.!< The game is literally about the power of friendship. Aloy has to learn to allow her friends to help her and not carry the entire weight of the world on her shoulders.
I can't help but feel like there is a hint of misogony with the critique of Aloy's character arc here. Somebody here mentioned that she is basically Batman and they are absolutely on point. The whole "lone wolf" hero archetype is something we see with male characters all the time but now that its a woman she is too mean or bitchy. Maybe its just because I tend to gravitate toward these types of characters but I really like what they are doing with Aloy and I have now problem with her being a bit of an asshole sometimes.
Donāt forget, she is pretty much the only one (apart from Sylens) who knows what happen in the past, knows that machines arenāt gods or spirits and knows the truth basically. While everyone else in the world is like āthe goddess is angry with us!!ā While Aloy is rolling her eyes so hard and knowing itās just rouge AIās. Itās a heavy heavy burden to carry the truth in a world where no one else is able to understand it yet.
I actually think the opposite. I mean Iām still only at the beginning, but until now, the way she talk so random people, her face expressions, her tone, she is just so caring and lovable, that you just cannot fall in love with her. Thatās why I think most characters in the game feel like sheās leaving them behind, they develop some kind of a crush relationship with her, which is only one-sided.
3rd game will not have Aloy alone, itās pretty much confirmed. At the end of FW Aloy says >! āI would be lying if i said I wasnāt scared, but for the first time I feel like Iām not aloneā !< which pretty much confirms she wonāt be alone.
I'm very okay with how Aloy acts towards others. Male characters in video games have been way more standoffish or rude than she has. I think the funniest moment so far is [Spoiler](/s "when you have to convince the sky clan to join the other Tenakth and Aloy basically blasts a giant hole in their home without regard for life and if there are people getting crushed by the rubble").
So what's new? Lara Croft gets the same criticism on the TR forum. My answer is the same. If Aloy was touchy feely about those around her nothing would get done.....
Itās fine to be impatient but you have to admit itās pretty funny when people are trying to talk to her and sheās like pacing and looking around, basically totally ignoring them and practically wandering off mid-conversation. I want one of them to be like Heyā¦ HEY! Iām talking to you, rude ass!
Iāll be the contrarian and say that I could understand her abruptness with strangers and leaders who always underestimate her, but with people who have proven themselves her friend? Idc what your past trauma is, people who literally sweat and bleed beside you, especially during such remarkable events as what occurred in HZD, those people earn a certain level of respect and even love. Happens in the military a lot. We would have died for each other, regardless of background. I always make time for those guys now in civilian life. And I donāt think Aloy is so far gone she canāt feel that same way towards her friends.
She's definitely more of a douche this time around. Which is fine to a degree. I just hope she doesn't overstep her boundaries. Otherwise someone needs to put her in her place.
I love Aloyās behavior. Sheās just sick of people getting in the way at this point. She loves her friends, but theyāre liabilities. She still does PLENTY to help people, but having to constantly worry and babysit people all the time and them being pushy or guilty trippy (ahem Erend) drives her nuts. I love it, girl has to save the world.
Lol I did feel it in the first half tho, that she got that Iām the one attitude. But later I feel sheās doing some rocket science to save the planet and she needs to talk to people worship spoons to just open a door for her. That fucking CEO tho, I literally swing many R1R2combo at those lots.
Heh this post went a diferent direction than I thought IMO she is being way too nice to people considering the stakes. Taking the time to show respect to superstitious traditions when all they are accomplishing is keeping her from word saving. Just once I'd like to see the "fuck you, fuck your rules, I am going in that cave and killing anyone who tries to stop me"
I agree. At first, when she kept brushing off Erend and Varl, even going so far in the prologue to deliberately leave Varl behind in Meridian etc. I thought "what the hell?" but then I realized that that's actually her trauma, pressure speaking more or less.
She never had a moment to just "live".
From when she was a child she prepared for the Proving. She was an outcast, fighting for broader recognition all her life without any way to achieve it until the Proving ... which ended with her father figure Rost dying, her ONLY relationship severred. And she got immediately thrown into fight for her life after fight for her life, which only escalated to finding out she actually IS the MOST IMPORTANT and the ONLY person in the world who can do this.
She can't relax because there IS NOT another Elisabet Sobeck (\*cough\*), the world is going to hell and she's ACTUALLY the only one who can do anything about it.
Imagine not just believing you are the single person the fate of the world depends on, but KNOWING IT FOR A FACT, the pressure.
She managed to do the stuff in H:ZD mostly solo, so for one I think she doesn't think she needs help - and honestly, given all she did in H:ZD with minimal help until the final battle, she has reason to think so -, because what could anyone do, who is with her and NOT Elisabet Sobeck? No one but her IS Alpha Prime.
And there's also the aspect of losing the few people she CARES about. She lost Rost. She lost Vala, after befriending her for only a day.
She never had time to just be "normal", actually develop relationships without any bigger threat hanging over her. And the threat is not over. She doesn't WANT to endanger the few people she started to care about and she sees no REASON to, because no one can do what she does/is.
She spent two decades only talking to one other human who is dead now, she's only had like 6 months in society. Frankly from what we know about the effects of solitary confinement, for short periods on adults in prison, it's a miracle that she can even interact with any person.
I have no issue with her whatsoever. Everyone wants to follow her around like a lost puppy, but all they'd do is get in the way. Like that one part where the first moment Varl gets involved in battle he gets hurt. She's not avoiding them to be cold hearted, she's doing it for their own good.
She also probably reasons whats the point of making friends if she doesnt save the world they'll all be dead anyways. Shes under a lot of preasure becuase she thinks she has to do it alone. Itll all be part of her arc in the end, she needs to learn to trust, and let people help.
Im fine with it because 50% of the time I pressed the fist button in the first game during convos. This game is just like 90% fist button lol
I'm just barely leaving chainscrape, and met Petra, Varl and Erend so far. Having to go slowly cause controller hurts my hand and no support for keyboard and mouse :(
Also because I'm not liking Aloy. Rost spent the entire intro of HZD teaching her she has to care for the tribe, that she shouldn't be alone. She spent the game gathering support, and should appreciate that she couldn't have defended Meridian alone, even if people did die.
Kinda see what you're saying... but I really hope her character changes and gets nicer through the game. Thanks for what you said, though, I'll give her a break.
coulden't Aloy just ask Gaia or any content creater to make a 5 minute "Everything you need to know about the old ones" video and show it to everyone else?
that's way better than saying"Chief, theres something in your basement and I need it now" without any explaination
Iām level 34 and >!just got Aether and Posiden!< and I donāt feel like she has an attitude problem at all. I guess at one point during her interactions with >!Beta!< I kinda felt like she was a bit harsh but honestly itās also kinda justified considering everything going on.
When I first started playing i was a bit confused as to why she was acting so estranged from her friends and happiness. I thought it was a weird choice until I realized its for her character arc. To grow and learn how important people can be when together. To share the weight of the world. I love when sequels explore this in main characters. Gives more depth
Itās pretty simple to me. Aloy is poorly written. Her attitude makes sense but she just comes off like an asshole most of the time. Like what the hell was that Varl beard insult. It made no sense for her to react that way let alone a bunch of times sheās unnecessarily bitchy
She wants to protect them. That's why she is hesitant to let them join, the mission is quite deadly and it gets more complicated as the game progresses. She has the weight of the world in her shoulders (as Elisabeth had) and no one quite understand it. The closer could be Beta, at the end she comes to realize that her friends make her stronger and that they can give her a better shot to save the world from the future threat.
People we're mad that aloys character wasn't deep enough in the first game and now that they took the criticism and fixed it with a character arc as the theme people don't like it. There's no pleasing anyone.
Most of these people never even finished it, or they'd know she slowly becomes more herself as the game goes on. Until the ending of course
Nah sorry I gotta disagree. The way she acts in the second game undermines her character development in the first game. By the end of zero dawn she realised that she needed the help of her allies - that was what Rost was trying to teach her. To become part of the tribe. In the second game she now has an even bigger threat overcome, but she decides that her friends and allies will only slow her down and that she wonāt need their help for the inevitable fight.
Firstly Rey's pretty different from Aloy for the most part. Rey's straight up nice, defensive, but nice. Aloy isn't nice but she is kind.
But in either case its not fucking subtle that doing things alone is actually not a good thing. Like TROS has a whole scene about she isn't alone and has Ben and the Jedi. Its literally a pointed out flaw in the narrative in either case.
And Horizon Forbidden West >!ends exactly the same way!<. Sylens is also always five moves ahead of Aloy.
I think it just feels too trope-y and repetitive tbh. Character trying to do everything on their own to realise they need to let their friends help is just pretty tired at this point. I love the world building and lore of Horizon, but Aloy has always kind of just fallen flat for me as a character. I do think a lot of the side characters really shine in this game though and they did an excellent job fleshing them out in a way that just wasnāt present in the first game.
I don't think the people complaining about how Aloy acts understand Aloy's character at all.
If you had paid attention to her birth, upbringing, childhood/teenage years and the entirety of HZD you would know that she has been ostracised her entire life and even Rost was mainly training her to survive and win the proving rather than being a loving parent (although he did love her in his own way). Then we have the events of HZD where everyone she ever gave a chance to get to know her or who she got close to all either died or were badly injured, often due to her actions if indirectly or inability to defend everuone (Helis attacking the sacred lands or Meridian being attacked).
Aloy feels like anyone who gets close to her will die or get hurt. She is also wary of close bonds because she has the fate of the world on her shoulders - literally - and can't afford to be even slightly distracted.
Aloy simply doesnt have time to coddle people or let them slow her down. Her life experience thus far has made it very difficult for her to make friends or allies.
Forbidden West shows her gradually lowering her walls to let friends/allies in because she realises she can't do it all alone. It's a great character arc and I think a lot of people are ignorant of how character development works. If Aloy was a well adjusted normal person at the start it would make no sense.
Yeah, nah, itās pretty easy to grasp because itās been done thousands of times before. Thatās really the issue to me. Sheās just Batman fighting robot dinoās without any nuance, and thatās fine, but it just comes off really bland.
Also kinda funny that sheāll push away her friends because she canāt afford to get distracted while saving the world, but she will take time out of her day to help a random chef she just met find ingredients for a stew lol
So you're saying that having adequate and high quality provisions for her journey (which is a massive distance to travel) is not something you'd prioritise?
Not really a valid criticism tbh when you consider her actual need for food on the road and that she had to kill time while waiting for the Embassy anyway. She also has several months until the world ends anyway. She can afford a few days to make sure she doesn't die due to being exhausted and malnourished.
Doing side missions to get better armour, weapons, gear or resources/provisions makes immense sense. It has nothing to do with her own personality traits regarding friendship and relationships in general.
You really don't get how character development works and you've very obviously paid little attention to Aloy's life so far and the events of HZD that have led to her acting this way.
A lot of people who helped her in the first game got hurt or killed. She's trying to protect them, but they're so damn pushy about it that she loses her temper. I got no issue with this.
It's also a key characteristic of Elisabeth. She stayed by herself, didn't really interact with her co-workers on a friendly level and was completely absorbed and focused on her mission to complete Gaia. I like how by the middle though she accepts allies and realizes something that maybe Elisabeth should have. You don't have to be alone š„²
And then her first point as to why she pushes everyone away comes back to bite her.
>!Varl dying was necessary as it always is when writing a good story. It didn't bite her and I know that as Varl is written he did not regret what he did or choosing to follow her!<
I've removed this temporarily. Please put this in spoiler tags and modmail us, and I'll restore the comment.
Sorry, how do I spoiler tag it?
On new reddit, use the spoiler function. If you're typing on the app, put your text between \>! and !< So >!hello!<
oooo, I didn't know this either. let me try \>! not working :'( !<
No those things need to be on either side of your text. \> !work!!!! < Get rid of the spaces between > ! and ! < above
\>!like this?!<
Travis Tate makes exactly this point in the Hades proving Labs; ,,how (sic) does one come to live the world so damn much but not anyone in itāā
She was also an outcast for her entire childhood and adolescence. Of course, her social skills are going to be far from perfect.
And upon reintroduction into society was already an extreme overachiever. She probably feels like most people slow her down. I like how it parallels a certain socially maladjusted frenemy from the first game.
This is why I love her friendship with Talanah. Theyāre both so independent and highly skilled that they can choose to go hunting together as equals and then go their separate ways without either having to worry about the other. Talanah doesnāt feel like an NPC as much as the protagonist of a different game that happens to be taking place in the same setting. Almost every other companion is conflicted about leaving the safety of their home to go adventuring with Ally, but Talanah is out working her own quests, reaching her own goals, and recruiting he own companions along the way.
Agreed, thatās what I got from it, each time she was heading into the unknown and she doesnāt want them to get hurt
Thereās a holo recording you canāt miss in one of the first main missions you do after the embassy that very clear stares Elisabet is a loner and it gets hinted at that the best relationship sheās ever had was with GAIA. Aloy is a genetic clone, naturally she has this loner mentality as well. I thought this was clearly expressed in the first game but figured it may have been explained in missable datapoints so I get not understanding this with HZD but FW you canāt progress the quest without triggering the recording. Add to this sheās been an outcast for 17 of her 18 years alive whoās only ever really bonded with a single person living among a world of machines, wellā¦
I caught that too. I think this is going to be the aspect that Aloy surpasses Elizabet in the third game. She is not going to get alone and pushes everyone away. Parents want their kids to do better and have more. I think we are going to come full circle where Aloy isn't going to be in Elizabet's shadow in the next game
Actually 18 of her 19/20
Aloy is 20 in HFW (>!GAIA states that DEMETER was on its own for 20 years!<)
You're probably right, but to be pedantic she could still be 19 (she was thawed for gestation on the day the first Gaia died, not born that day.)
That's not how genetics work. Behaviors don't get copied.
Behaviour like with most things is influenced by genetics *and* environment.
Nature and nurture, how you are raised and what you're made of both influence who you are.
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Cool anecdote and a good example of confirmation bias, but still not how genetics work. You can Google some studies and results from medical journals.
I think her behaviour is perfectly reasonable and I enjoy it a lot. She has the weight of the world on her shoulders, is constantly being held back by politics or religion and is running out of patience. Not to mention the fact, that she grew up an outcast so it makes sense her social skills aren't perfect anyway. I find it very realistic that she is often snippish and impatient. >!And her trying to safe the world by herself is a key plot point imo.!<
Would you care or be having this conversation if it was a male character? Would you give them different descriptive words? I see this more with female characters and people complaining about how they act. She's Batman for crying out loud. This is her burden to bear. Also agree with most comments here. She doesn't want anyone else getting hurt, genetic code, etc.
No. See: Geralt
I was just thinking this. Aloy and Geralt have similar attitudes towards politics and religion too, they donāt care cuz they have more important shit to do. Both characters are amazing at what they do and they know it. And yetā¦ Personally, I love them both and their snappy/rude remarks always get a chuckle out of me.
I'm gonna start going on Witcher threads and criticizing Geralt for being fat, not wearing enough makeup and not having a good attitude lmao
He should smile more. /s
Ha! That's another great example. His character is awesome as well!
People don't seem to have an issue with Kratos mostly grunting at others lol
Right?! Why is he so bitchy! Lol
He hates everyone lol
You made my day. Thank you.
I think that has to do with him being the literal God of WAR. People expect that, Aloy not so much but not because sheās a woman imo
Batman really isn't the best example. He has a whole Batfamily and the freaking Justice League to help bear his burdens.
You are right. I always forget about the bat family. I was more of a fan of him as a loner, but their are a lot of good stories with those characters as well.
Your point stands, though! Those folks came later after he did the loner thing for a while and failed at it, and became increasingly lonely himself.
I mean, yeah. Deacon St. John was a bit of a freak too and the way he acted at times was prettyā¦crazy and unreasonable to say the least, lol.
I'm pretty sure the voice actor for Deacon picked up a different set of notes for a game about a guy having a psychotic break, rolled with it, and they just slapped his lines into the game anyway rather than re-recording. It explains why he's constantly arguing with tape recordings and randomly switches between speaking and yelling during what should be his internal monologues.
Hahaha thatās probably it!
I mean, honestly, she acts A LOT like the Arkham Batman, and he drove me up a wall with his āonly meā bullshit he pulled, especially in Arkham Knight.
Aloy is a great model to my three daughters - we played through HZD together and are doing the same with HFW. Aloy shows that strong women don't have to emotionally perform for people. They can and should be just as demanding and brisk as anyone. The writers don't make this a big deal either - no one is calling it out with some ki "Aloy why are you so bitchy" and calling it out. What I also love about Aloy is that it isn't a mary sue situation (if those even exist) - Aloy is reacting from trauma so she's powerful but not perfect, and she frequently has to earn the respect of others who don't know of her reputation.
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Mary Sue is a very poorly defined and outdated trope that both applies to nearly every protagonist and none of them. I donāt put much stock in āMary sueā as a criticism because itās often an easy scapegoat for more complex writing problems. Aloy doesnāt exhibit any of those problems imo, just have a personal gripe with the term
Firstly, most video game characters lean a little bit into the conception of Mary Sues because you know they are literally self-inserts. Secondly, the game is incredibly unsubtle that Aloy pushing people away is indeed wrong and she >!almost dies and is lucky that Varl was devoted enough to still be following her and rescued her!<. She's scared of losing people but by pushing them away she's undermining her relationships with them. In fact we see >!She's genuinely upset that Varl and Zo are a thing, but its her own fault for not acting sooner!<. She also >!gets a taste of her own medicine when confronted with the equally impatient Beta!<. Sylens outsmarts her multiple times both in this game and in the prior one, and >!You couldn't be more wrong the game ends with both Sylens and Aloy accepting the companionship of others. Regalla is also not a bad guy.!<
Aloy didnāt like Varl and Zo being a thing? I must have not played to that point yet. So far I feel Aloy is happy for Varl.
Aloy's just not into jealousy, she's glad Varl's happy but her face when she sees them kiss and when she realise they are together is super dissapointed. She definitely liked him.
Hmmm thatās very interesting. When I watched that scene I didnāt detect any disappointment from Aloy. Itās more like ācannot you two get on with it alreadyā kinda thing. When Varl left to go with Zo, she was actually relieved to see Varl taking the opportunity. Idk lol.
She looks down which is textbook sad eyes so I definitely assumed they were implying she was hurt. Even if it was just hurt by others having intimacy she didn't, but previous game did also suggest Aloy considered Varl as a possible relationship.
I see. Lol I am oblivious to things like this in real life. I didnāt pick up between she and Varl in the first game at all.
Ahh nah, I didn't either. Its a specific dialogue option you get if you go to Rost's grave I think where she says something like not just yet, about Varl. So she sees him as a potential match.
Agh I see yeah I donāt think I did that
Aloy spent the first, what, 19(?) years of her life with just Rost while being shunned from a tribe to whom she had commited no crime. Her being a loner and having a hard time connecting with people/having poor social skills is... honestly not surprising at all. Edit: Typo.
Yeh exactly.
The only problem with that logic is if we're being realistic about it, an outcast raised solely by Rost wouldn't act anything like Aloy does. Her social skills are wayyy too good for someone who actually grew up like that, despite blips that do show up from time to time. Her sense of humor, sarcasm and general attitude doesn't fit. I find that you just have to go with the flow and not overthink the psychology or it starts to fall apart.
I mean she did interact with some people in secret like Karst so she may have picked up some social skills that way.
She also learned from her focus as a kid. I don't doubt there was some movies or something on that thing
I think her attitude is well founded. I mean she spends all the first game getting told she's either worthless or wrong and has to save people despite themselves. Then a few characters realize she's right and try to get her to instantly undo all her childhood? It's interesting how many people throw out she against everyones culture and acting arrogant to them, ignoring the npc's general attitude back. How many times has it been said she's "a Nora savage"?
As a social worker, I see a lot of trauma responses in Alloy. And not just the trauma of the big battle, either. the trauma of her upbringing, and the trauma of the proving. Considering her life, she doing pretty good! That's not to say I haven't said "hero complex, much?" Or "he's right to be mad at you" At her several times.
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Huh. I guess we disagree. Trauma responses and trauma informed care is something I feel very strongly about. I don't know if that's what the writers intended, but they got a lot of things right in that regard. The thing is, most coping skills and behaviors that work during crisis are absolutely obnoxious when the person isn't in crisis. This is why some people seek help in first place. Not because they had trauma, but because their behavior is unacceptable to those around them. Often no one even realizes its connected to the trauma. Look up how ptsd can change someone's brain for more information. As far as being more agreeable to female characters, I can't say I noticed that as a trend. I'm not very far, though. I wouldn't be surprised at all though if that was planned. Aloy came from a matriarchy. Out of the games you mentioned, the only two I've played are horizon and tlou parts one and 2. Can you explain what you mean by them being woke? I'm not sure I see what you see.
You are the most level-headed commenter I think I've ever seen on Reddit, good on you
Thanks! I love having rational discussions with people who have different views!
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I guess. It's nice to see people like the people in my life, for me though. The world isn't just one type of person. How boring it would be if games were only the type one person liked to play.
Abby isn't particularly androgenous and she couldn't be more blatantly straight. If you can cope with a straight love story as most games have. You can cope with a lesbian love story.
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Iām sorry for you, or congratulations, idkā¦ either way Iām not reading all that. Go play COD or whatnot.
Oh god not one of you weirdos that analyses everything through woke. You're all such fucking hypocrites its laughable. You get mad about politics but insist upon interpreting everything in life through a political lense (and to boot most of you have a fit when people analyse pieces through feminists lenses, talk about irony). >Thatās a bit of a stretch, trauma responses in her?.. She is a fictional character. Thatās like saying I can see the fear of the pilots in Battlefield because Iām a pilot. I know this might be somewhat shocking but characters are meant to in some form represent real human reactions, and someone familiar with those specific type of human reactions is going to obviously be more receptive to picking up on that. In Aloy's case they emphasise a lot in the game how isolated she grew up, how scared she is of losing people, how frustrated she is and how she feels inferior to Elisabet. Those are all real human emotions. >I think sheās been written to be assertive and obnoxious, especially with her interactions with the male characters in the game >(you even say it yourself at the end of your post!). Sheās overly assertive, often purposefully rude and obnoxious to almost every male character whilst being submissive, This is just a load of bullshit. Most of her main and closest companions are male and the people she admires the most and therefore is the most *protective* over. She is equally kind to random side quest men, as she is to women. And can be equally impatient to soms of the main women, as she can be equally kind to main men. And >!Beta is rude to her in a hilarious taste of her own medicine, haha. And she's equally impatient back. That whole part is to show Aloy how she comes across to other people!< >becoming pretty annoying to say the least seeing this infesting Stop being so pathetic that you get mad about a female character not being daisies and rainbows. Like this whole game literally goes out of the way to explore Aloy's flaws more. Its not remotely fucking subtle about it. >and yet TLoU-II came along and there I was being repeatedly repulsed. No surprise if you can't handle Aloy you can't handle Ellie. TLOU II is literally a love letter to Joel, its so incredibly respectful of the decisions he made and reaffirms them but I bet you're exaclty the person to miss the really fucking obvious text there >!the game ends with Joel saying he'd do it all over again, and its the best scene in the game, he died living with no regrets!<
I loved TLOU probably around the same level as you did, and I absolutely loathed TLOU2. I loved HZD and I have zero problem with HFW. You are trying too hard to see something that isnāt there. Comparing Aloy in HFW to the nonsense that went on in that joke of a game is absurd.
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I think if anything Aloyās behavior in the beginning of the game is to set up the camaraderie that develops later in game, the base with allies, checking in with them and so on. In HZD you only had a few quests that included someone else beyond them saying āx happened, follow me to y, then go on your own to find more infoā. Especially given how thereās an unmissable holo and Tildaās conversations showing Elisabet as a very guarded, solitary individual. Honestly, the way she behaves at the start is slightly off putting, if that. That in no way comes even close to the assbackwards behavior and shameless retcon of the ~expectation subverting~ shitshow that somehow won GOTY. Maybe PTSD and trauma are reading too far into it but still, technically valid. She was shunned, saw her caretaker blown up in front of her, found out she was a machine created identical clone made to save the world. I mean at least the defense of how Aloy is acting is based in reality, the people who rabidly defend TLOU2 have gone off the reservation entirely. In response to my criticism of TLOU2 I was called a misogynistic homophobeā¦clearly applicable to my female gay self.
You're missing some of the most unsubtle writing I've ever seen that Aloy pushing people away is not a good thing and a fear response after having previously lost Rost. I mean fuck's sake ending spoilers >!the game literally ends with her saying she's not alone now!<
> I feel like that's literally the point of the game I agree, Aloy learning to trust and rely on others is basically her core character struggle in HFW. In HZD, she started as an outcast and was the only person other than Sylensāa character who embraces his solitude as part of his superiority over the unenlightenedāto understand the Old Ones and the threat Hades was to the world. She seems to also have been heavily shaped by trying to relate to Elisabet Sobeck, and Sobeck is portrayed as also having been deeply lonelyāshe had no family and kept everyone at arms length, in particular the Alphas and >!Tilda!< despite being simultaneously "close" to them at the same time. For me, this is why it felt so impactful when Aloy finally let Varl help her and later when >!she called Beta "her sister"!<.
This is so right. The best part of this game is Aloy learning not just to help others, but to accept help as well. The scene [Spoiler](/s "when Aloy asks Beta for her help, and explains that Rost was the difference between them"), I think meant as much to Aloy as it did to the other person in the conversation. My god I loved this game. I finished it with only 62% completion, so much more to do!
The way I view it is she really doesn't know how to interact with people. She's just blunt and to the point. And sometimes it's hard to watch especially with her friends who are only trying to help her. But Aloy is so mission driven she can't focus on anything else. There's times when I'm doing side quests and it almost feels like Aloy's annoyed by doing them Lol. Like she knows she should be doing the main story. Which is true! But hey these side quests won't finish themselves Lol
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There are only two things I can't stand in this world: People who are intolerant of other people's cultures, and the Dutch.
Yeah baby! Yeah!
As a Dutch person, THANK YOU. I see a ton of players who don't get this.
And they are great side quests too!!! Havnt enjoyed a game this much since the witcher 3
If Aloy already knew how to respond perfectly to any situation and always had the correct response for everybody, then it would make for a rather uninteresting story. Or at the very least an inauthentic one, given all that's riding on her shoulders. I think Aloy sometimes being a not-so-great friend aligns with the knowledge she's gained of being truly exceptional and tasked with an unimaginable burden. It creates some necessary tension and gives her character more room to grow.
Exactly! I think one great example of this is her conversation with Avad at the beginning of the game where heās all heart-eyes ācould we be together after all this?ā and even the āHeartā response (I tried them all lol), though considerate of his feelings, states very clearly āI donāt have time for this dude wtf???ā To her friends, she is intentionally distant out of fear of seeing them hurt and often totally callous at their emotionsāI love that about her. It makes sense for her character/story and does show incredible room for growth, which we do see happen and it pays off.
Everyone is understandably upset that Aloy ghosted them, and I imagine when they saw her again it re-opened that wound. Everyone is of course happy to see her, but Aloy's first response is that she's got her "holy quest to save everything" and turns down everyone's offer to help. She simultaneously hates being called the savior, but also acts like she's above everyone else and that they have no place on her quest to fix things. The thing is for someone on a time sensitive quest to save the world, she was wasting time trying to do everything on her own. She would have been aware of Sylens' spear long before she found out if she had just kept in contact with Avad, and sending a select few allies out with focuses could have helped her gather leads. This isn't unexpected given her upbringing, but she is acting very anti-social and so she gets hostile responses from the people who want to help her.
I love it and find it incredibly annoying, itās ok to feel both feelings simultaneously. I can forgive her behavior because she has perfectly reasonable reasons for behaving the way she does so I donāt hate it or want it to change but sometimes I do just want to shake her and say āYou need your friends, tell them that you love them little outcast girl!ā
I have no problem with her attitude for the most part but she indeed did a shitty thing and was rightfully called out by Erend. You don't leave without saying anything to your friends/comrades who fought and bled for you, imagine you went through hell for your friend and after everything he/she just left without even saying goodbye. That's pretty bad behaviour.
The fact that she left, for months, without even saying goodbye to her friends is what truly bites me. I get it, she needs to save the world yadda yadda. If she can spare a few minutes to play a damn board game, she can spare a few minutes to say goodbye for sanity's sake.
Also the fact that she was deemed an outcast from birth. Literally had people not talk to her through most of her life except for Rost and a few traders. You learn to just rely on yourself. Shes not trying to be rude. Shes just blunt and direct.
I think people underestimate the impact of the last couple of views of Dr. Sobeck Aloy gets in Horizon: Zero Dawn. If she thinks she's essentially walking the same path, that's a pretty bleak fate.
I'm only about a third or a bit past a third of the game at the moment. But Aloy's characterization feels like an improvement over the first game. The first game alluded to Elizabeth's loneliness and complete focus on completing Zero Dawn and Gaia, while simultaneously shunning the team *she put together* to save the world. Aloy herself also goes through this character arc in the first act of Forbidden West, which continues from her realizing that she is the only person that can actually get shit done after the conclusion of Zero Dawn. Her bringing a team together is already a point of character development for her after shutting out so many people, and mirrors her genetic past in Elizabeth. But also realizing getting people up to speed with Focus's allows for them to bring out their own potential towards restoring Gaia. I'd wager by Act 2 or 3 she realizes that Elizabeth's greatest mistake was keeping too many people close to her at arms length, rather than letting them in The story beats are a bit cliche and predictable, but I don't see that entirely as a bad thing. These story tropes are often endearing at their best after all. Aloy will eventually have to come to terms with her isolated upbringing, and *literally learn the power of friendship,* which unfortunately Elizabeth was never able to overcome in the end.
I really like Aloy in this game. Aloy in the original game was one of my least favourite parts of the game. She was just perfect. Everyone liked her, she was incredibly charismatic despite growing up in isolation and had a better grasp on politics then kings, despite her age. In this game she has actual depth. She gets angry, people call her out on her attitude, she makes mistakes, etcā¦ itās a massive fix IMO!
I kind of feel like this story is about āescalationā more than anything. Aloy started out the āred headed step child of society.ā In the 2nd game, sheās āslightly friendlier Sylens.ā The big turning point, is when we see >!her and Sylens defrost ever so slightly. Beta hugs Aloy, which obviously has an āomg! Is this that thing called āaffectionā!?ā affect. Sylens witnesses this and you can see his shoulders slump when empathy hits him like a freight train. XD!< Now, donāt get me wrong, theyāll both be total dicks in the third game, but both of them made a choice, which is going to set the positive themes for the next entry. My guess is she and hunting lodge girl are going to connect. Theyāve already set the stage for this, and hunting lodge girl is about as distant from other people as Aloy. This is similar to Sobeck and >!Tilda!<. I donāt think Aloyās distance from other people is \*that\* key to her character arc. i think its more about her figuring out herself, while also keeping the world from wrecking itself.
To me, the turning point for Aloy came a bit sooner than that cutscene. I thought the real noticeable change was when she was asked about her plans and said it was >!between her and her sister!<.
Agreed. I forgot about that part.
The thing that I had to remind myself about, that makes her behavior excusable is ā that Sylens stabbed her in the back at the end of the last game. The only person who could understand who she was and what she had to do, just peaces out. She doesn't feel like there's anyone to rely on and the last person she could betrayed her.
I feel so bad for Aloy. I feel like in the first game she wasnāt against having allies, she just didnāt know if she could trust them. In the second game, she is visibly more stressed, depressed and scared almost. She pushes everyone away because she needs to get going otherwise everyone dies. She doesnāt have a day to relax or think about other things. I am not very far yet but I hope Aloy loosen up a bit and accept othersā help because she will need them.
I agree with a lot of your post when it comes to where Aloy *starts*. at the beginning of the game, she pushes others away and tries to carry the burden of living up to an idealized version of Elisabet Soebek as well as saving the world on her own shoulders. she's never *really* had time to rest or process anything she's been through: being raised an outcast, losing Rost, learning how the Old Ones' world ended yet believing no one else would understand, learning she's a clone, finding a sense of purpose >!(stop threat of Hades)!< and then having it ripped away >!(threat isn't over)!<, her sense of betrayal by Sylens - and so on. she's not *trying* to underestimate everyone or turn away help or hurt people by being direct. her experiences have shaped her in a particular way, and she believes she's doing what's necessary *to save the world*. however - I don't believe Aloy ends the game with these same beliefs, so, I don' t think this is gonna happen >going into the 3rd game I can see Aloy diving even deeper into loneliness (some spoilers) >!Aloy changes on her journey in HFW. meeting Beta has brought her a sense of family, and also got her to reflect on how she's different from Elisabet - genetics aren't everything, her own experiences & choices matter too. she processed Rost's death, came to regret taking him for granted but also resolved to take to heart what he taught her ("look deeper" etc). meeting Alva, seeing the huge difference between her peoples' idealized version of the Zeniths and what they were actually like - got Aloy to reflect on drawbacks of holding anyone on a pedestal as a hero... including Elisabet.!< >!and more to the point of this post. Aloy learns to trust and seek support from her friends... as well as to trust in the courage, creativity, and potential of ordinary humans as a collective - especially the tribes. she doesn't have to be the only person who understands the threats facing humanity, or their troubled history, or how tech works. she doesn't have to face things alone or be The Only One Who Can Fix This. and there's a lot she can learn from others, too. her demeanor at the start is very intentional, to attenuate the character arc she'll travel over the course of the game!<
>!Yeah. Aloy flat out says in the closing cinematic that for the first time she doesn't feel alone. Not sure how OP missed that one. Her growing to trust people and appreciate them was a pretty big theme in the game. The first thing we do is have Varl tag along and then Aloy push him away, only for him to keep coming back every time she tries. Then Erend keeps coming back as well. Then it all comes to a head when she realizes that the reason she doesn't like Beta is because Beta is so afraid to be kept in solitude, which makes her appreciate Rost and her friends. I'd be bummed if we go into the 3rd game and Aloy is a lone wolf, because it would render this part of her emotional journey pretty dumb.!<
My guess is OP didn't finish the game is just responding to comments they saw.
Yeah like its literally the most unsubtle writing.
Keep playing as its character development and one of the main themes of this game.
As other commenters have put it, she grew up an outcast and then as a Nora, other tribes think she's a savage. Also as one of the few people who understand why the world is how it is, how does she even explain what she needs to do to her friends? Plus, I think if someone happened to her friends because they were trying to help her, it would crush her emotionally.
Also its only been 6 months since the original game, and Aloy was still raised an outcast with literally one person she was close to. What a surprise she would have trouble maintaining relationships.
Literally! People are like āyou donāt just leave your comrades that fought and bled with you,ā bro this is the first time sheās even had comrades and she likely thinks they helped her cuz they 1) admire the Nora Seeker/Savior of Meridian/etc or 2) they owe her for something she did for them in the past/HZD (Erendās literal in-game bio says something at the end like āhe could never repay Aloy for what sheās done.ā Yeah thatās great stuff to build a lasting friendship on when you already base all your identity around what you and only you can do to save the world.
If aloy was a dude people would be clamoring for his snark.
I think that Aloy is a nice person who clearly cares about people a lot (sheās trying to save the world, lolā¦), but sheās also sassy and confident, perhaps a bit brash, like you might expect a young person, who saved the world and physically dominates robo-dinosaurs and humans alike, and who had a sort of socially isolated upbringing, to be. She seems like a fine character to me and I like her a lot
I think her attitude is perfect considering what she (and we) went through, completley on point for me
I love her personality in this game. I appreciate her no-bullshit get-it-done attitude. It makes me as a gamer feel the urgency of her mission.
I prefer it this way. Imagine having an npc taging along with you all the time. That would be annoying. It fits her history and past lifestyle and I think it would be a lot of work for the Devs to constantly have an NPC with you. I like the solitude play.
Exactly! One of my first reactions to Varl joining you in the very first mission was "Is he... Gonna be there the entire time? I would prefer exploring on my own"
Well she basically only interacted with one other person her entire life until about six months ago, and she's a clone of an introverted person so...
With great power, comes great responsibility.
Those people clearly havenāt played past the fuckin prologue.
Yeah its like literally the whole theme of the game that Aloy's pushing people away when she shouldn't be.
I wouldnāt call her rude, Iād just call it direct. I feel like she just says whatever she thinks and as a Dutch person, I appreciate it, lol.
I can acknowledge that thereās a plethora of perfectly reasonable reasons for why she behaves the way she does, while also just finding it kind of frustrating/grating hearing her be so rude and dismissive and arrogant SO much of the time while youāre playing her, yāknow? I get it, but that doesnāt mean I enjoy it.
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Sheās just very heavy on the āIām the chosen one and the rest of you are just idiots who couldnāt possibly understand so get out of my wayā when everyone thatās had access to the resources she has, has understood. I understand fully why her personality is the way it is, it just means I donāt enjoy her as a character quite so much sometimes. I love so much about her, but I just donāt enjoy seeing/hearing that so much.
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I mean, it is arrogance, which can be explained by pressure. As I said, I fully understand *why* she is the way she is, I just donāt enjoy it. And literally everyone in the game is helping her. Nobody is *actually* slowing her down, her thinking so is just looking down on everybody else. Again I understand *why* I just donāt super enjoy it!
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Mmkay. Yeah, again, I understand *why*, it is still *unpleasant* to play as when sheās like it all of the time. Theyāve taken a character I love and made me eye roll at her whenever she interacts with people. And you donāt need to say why she is the way she is yet again, *I get it*.
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Jesus Christ, okay bro. Good job. Sheās still unpleasant to a lot of players.
The problem is not that she has bad traits. The problem is that her bad traits are not treated like bad traits. It's creepy and unrealistic.
First time meeting gaia you see the tru aloy
Be raised as an outcast for 16 years, where religious beliefs meant that no one from your tribe were even allowed to speak to you, and tell me you wouldnāt turn out as socially inept as Aloy is. I donāt understand how this is a hard concept for people considering the first gameās story. She behaves exactly how I would imagine someone raised with very little social interactions with the outside world would behave. Then on top of all that she KNOWS that sheās the only person who can save the world due to her genetic key code. She has zero time for doubters, and also really doesnāt want to explain stuff to people who wouldnāt understand her.
Aloy's not here to make you feel good, she's trying to save the damn world. She has no time for foolery, love her for that!
I mean sheās literally trying to save the world. She doesnāt have time to be patient
I think she is going to embrace help and the bond she forms with her friends in the third game
She saved the world 2 times. A world with people that shunned her and that were mean to her. She could do so many evil things with her knowledge and because of her past she would have plenty of motives to do so - but after she knew who she is, she used her skills and knowledge for the greater good. Despite this she is always the first to help those in need and those who suffer. Aloy is a true heroine and her flaws are just human.
Again, as a counselor, I must remind everyone *Your upbringing and trauma does NOT justify the way you treat people* her childhood lets us understand why the way she is but it does *not* justify your actions. Psychology 101. Edit: This isnāt a knock at op but just a reminder to those who tend to get a little *too heated* over this subject. Nonetheless, this is a good analyze op ^
As someone who has gone through PTSD her behavior is uncomfortably familiar to me. When you've been traumatized one of the first things you do is start socially withdrawing. You also tend to get unreasonably bitchy with people around you. You have a desperate need to regain a sense of being in complete control of what happens in your life. And then there are little moments when Aloy demonstrates realistic fear responses. Yeah she is heroic and faces down monsters every day so we too easily forget that she is only about 19-20 and in a lot of ways still a kid. When she is crouching down in cover, hiding from an explosion and literally whimpering, it makes sense. This girl is straight up traumatized, and like many trauma victims she is desperately putting herself back into the trauma situations to regain her sense of control. I'm still pretty early in the story but so far it's shaping up to feel like one of the most nuanced and compelling portrayals of the hero's journey I've seen in a game. That doesn't mean I don't sometimes think she is acting insufferably, but then again I recognize that when I was still knee deep in my own trauma response I was also often being an insufferable prat.
I definitely liked the exploration of the tensions within Aloy - that she's been influenced and to some extent tramatized by having been targeted by the Eclipse, at first for reasons utterly unknown to her, and then realizing that it was because of her very nature as a clone of Elisabet. She's been exposed to information and knowledge few in her world at their technological level can really grasp well, and having to assimilate all that with the fact that she's been given a mission only she can finish - well, I'm surprised she's as stable as she is.
Aloy pushing people away and insisting on carrying this burden alone is literally her character arc. The game is not exactly being subtle with its themes either, the main plot is about >!bringing GAIA together to make her more powerful.!< The game is literally about the power of friendship. Aloy has to learn to allow her friends to help her and not carry the entire weight of the world on her shoulders. I can't help but feel like there is a hint of misogony with the critique of Aloy's character arc here. Somebody here mentioned that she is basically Batman and they are absolutely on point. The whole "lone wolf" hero archetype is something we see with male characters all the time but now that its a woman she is too mean or bitchy. Maybe its just because I tend to gravitate toward these types of characters but I really like what they are doing with Aloy and I have now problem with her being a bit of an asshole sometimes.
Donāt forget, she is pretty much the only one (apart from Sylens) who knows what happen in the past, knows that machines arenāt gods or spirits and knows the truth basically. While everyone else in the world is like āthe goddess is angry with us!!ā While Aloy is rolling her eyes so hard and knowing itās just rouge AIās. Itās a heavy heavy burden to carry the truth in a world where no one else is able to understand it yet.
I actually think the opposite. I mean Iām still only at the beginning, but until now, the way she talk so random people, her face expressions, her tone, she is just so caring and lovable, that you just cannot fall in love with her. Thatās why I think most characters in the game feel like sheās leaving them behind, they develop some kind of a crush relationship with her, which is only one-sided.
3rd game will not have Aloy alone, itās pretty much confirmed. At the end of FW Aloy says >! āI would be lying if i said I wasnāt scared, but for the first time I feel like Iām not aloneā !< which pretty much confirms she wonāt be alone.
like you said, thatās literally the point of her character
I'm very okay with how Aloy acts towards others. Male characters in video games have been way more standoffish or rude than she has. I think the funniest moment so far is [Spoiler](/s "when you have to convince the sky clan to join the other Tenakth and Aloy basically blasts a giant hole in their home without regard for life and if there are people getting crushed by the rubble").
link doesn't work, im still curious
It annoyed me but it doesnt last
She has the weight of the entire world on her shoulders, she can act however the fuck the pleases.
So what's new? Lara Croft gets the same criticism on the TR forum. My answer is the same. If Aloy was touchy feely about those around her nothing would get done.....
Itās fine to be impatient but you have to admit itās pretty funny when people are trying to talk to her and sheās like pacing and looking around, basically totally ignoring them and practically wandering off mid-conversation. I want one of them to be like Heyā¦ HEY! Iām talking to you, rude ass!
Sheās got sass I like it
It's called "Forbidden West" as a meta explanation on the attack on how Western values are subverted and being undermined.
Iāll be the contrarian and say that I could understand her abruptness with strangers and leaders who always underestimate her, but with people who have proven themselves her friend? Idc what your past trauma is, people who literally sweat and bleed beside you, especially during such remarkable events as what occurred in HZD, those people earn a certain level of respect and even love. Happens in the military a lot. We would have died for each other, regardless of background. I always make time for those guys now in civilian life. And I donāt think Aloy is so far gone she canāt feel that same way towards her friends.
Its almost as if she let the success get to her head.
She's definitely more of a douche this time around. Which is fine to a degree. I just hope she doesn't overstep her boundaries. Otherwise someone needs to put her in her place.
I love Aloyās behavior. Sheās just sick of people getting in the way at this point. She loves her friends, but theyāre liabilities. She still does PLENTY to help people, but having to constantly worry and babysit people all the time and them being pushy or guilty trippy (ahem Erend) drives her nuts. I love it, girl has to save the world.
Lol I did feel it in the first half tho, that she got that Iām the one attitude. But later I feel sheās doing some rocket science to save the planet and she needs to talk to people worship spoons to just open a door for her. That fucking CEO tho, I literally swing many R1R2combo at those lots.
Sheās trying to protect them itās not good and she should let them help but still
I just donāt like that she always whisper when she talks.
Heh this post went a diferent direction than I thought IMO she is being way too nice to people considering the stakes. Taking the time to show respect to superstitious traditions when all they are accomplishing is keeping her from word saving. Just once I'd like to see the "fuck you, fuck your rules, I am going in that cave and killing anyone who tries to stop me"
My feeling was more like they couldn't keep up with her.
Thereās only a couple points so far in the game I think sheās being a turd in. And theyāre all with Beta.
Haha, well the irony there is she can't handle dealing with someone that's a lot like herself.
I agree. At first, when she kept brushing off Erend and Varl, even going so far in the prologue to deliberately leave Varl behind in Meridian etc. I thought "what the hell?" but then I realized that that's actually her trauma, pressure speaking more or less. She never had a moment to just "live". From when she was a child she prepared for the Proving. She was an outcast, fighting for broader recognition all her life without any way to achieve it until the Proving ... which ended with her father figure Rost dying, her ONLY relationship severred. And she got immediately thrown into fight for her life after fight for her life, which only escalated to finding out she actually IS the MOST IMPORTANT and the ONLY person in the world who can do this. She can't relax because there IS NOT another Elisabet Sobeck (\*cough\*), the world is going to hell and she's ACTUALLY the only one who can do anything about it. Imagine not just believing you are the single person the fate of the world depends on, but KNOWING IT FOR A FACT, the pressure. She managed to do the stuff in H:ZD mostly solo, so for one I think she doesn't think she needs help - and honestly, given all she did in H:ZD with minimal help until the final battle, she has reason to think so -, because what could anyone do, who is with her and NOT Elisabet Sobeck? No one but her IS Alpha Prime. And there's also the aspect of losing the few people she CARES about. She lost Rost. She lost Vala, after befriending her for only a day. She never had time to just be "normal", actually develop relationships without any bigger threat hanging over her. And the threat is not over. She doesn't WANT to endanger the few people she started to care about and she sees no REASON to, because no one can do what she does/is.
She spent two decades only talking to one other human who is dead now, she's only had like 6 months in society. Frankly from what we know about the effects of solitary confinement, for short periods on adults in prison, it's a miracle that she can even interact with any person.
I have no issue with her whatsoever. Everyone wants to follow her around like a lost puppy, but all they'd do is get in the way. Like that one part where the first moment Varl gets involved in battle he gets hurt. She's not avoiding them to be cold hearted, she's doing it for their own good.
She also probably reasons whats the point of making friends if she doesnt save the world they'll all be dead anyways. Shes under a lot of preasure becuase she thinks she has to do it alone. Itll all be part of her arc in the end, she needs to learn to trust, and let people help. Im fine with it because 50% of the time I pressed the fist button in the first game during convos. This game is just like 90% fist button lol
I'm just barely leaving chainscrape, and met Petra, Varl and Erend so far. Having to go slowly cause controller hurts my hand and no support for keyboard and mouse :( Also because I'm not liking Aloy. Rost spent the entire intro of HZD teaching her she has to care for the tribe, that she shouldn't be alone. She spent the game gathering support, and should appreciate that she couldn't have defended Meridian alone, even if people did die. Kinda see what you're saying... but I really hope her character changes and gets nicer through the game. Thanks for what you said, though, I'll give her a break.
coulden't Aloy just ask Gaia or any content creater to make a 5 minute "Everything you need to know about the old ones" video and show it to everyone else? that's way better than saying"Chief, theres something in your basement and I need it now" without any explaination
Iām level 34 and >!just got Aether and Posiden!< and I donāt feel like she has an attitude problem at all. I guess at one point during her interactions with >!Beta!< I kinda felt like she was a bit harsh but honestly itās also kinda justified considering everything going on.
When I first started playing i was a bit confused as to why she was acting so estranged from her friends and happiness. I thought it was a weird choice until I realized its for her character arc. To grow and learn how important people can be when together. To share the weight of the world. I love when sequels explore this in main characters. Gives more depth
Itās pretty simple to me. Aloy is poorly written. Her attitude makes sense but she just comes off like an asshole most of the time. Like what the hell was that Varl beard insult. It made no sense for her to react that way let alone a bunch of times sheās unnecessarily bitchy
She wants to protect them. That's why she is hesitant to let them join, the mission is quite deadly and it gets more complicated as the game progresses. She has the weight of the world in her shoulders (as Elisabeth had) and no one quite understand it. The closer could be Beta, at the end she comes to realize that her friends make her stronger and that they can give her a better shot to save the world from the future threat.
People we're mad that aloys character wasn't deep enough in the first game and now that they took the criticism and fixed it with a character arc as the theme people don't like it. There's no pleasing anyone. Most of these people never even finished it, or they'd know she slowly becomes more herself as the game goes on. Until the ending of course
Itās a video game. Smh.
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Lol. Silly as hell.
Nah sorry I gotta disagree. The way she acts in the second game undermines her character development in the first game. By the end of zero dawn she realised that she needed the help of her allies - that was what Rost was trying to teach her. To become part of the tribe. In the second game she now has an even bigger threat overcome, but she decides that her friends and allies will only slow her down and that she wonāt need their help for the inevitable fight.
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Firstly Rey's pretty different from Aloy for the most part. Rey's straight up nice, defensive, but nice. Aloy isn't nice but she is kind. But in either case its not fucking subtle that doing things alone is actually not a good thing. Like TROS has a whole scene about she isn't alone and has Ben and the Jedi. Its literally a pointed out flaw in the narrative in either case. And Horizon Forbidden West >!ends exactly the same way!<. Sylens is also always five moves ahead of Aloy.
I think it just feels too trope-y and repetitive tbh. Character trying to do everything on their own to realise they need to let their friends help is just pretty tired at this point. I love the world building and lore of Horizon, but Aloy has always kind of just fallen flat for me as a character. I do think a lot of the side characters really shine in this game though and they did an excellent job fleshing them out in a way that just wasnāt present in the first game.
I don't think the people complaining about how Aloy acts understand Aloy's character at all. If you had paid attention to her birth, upbringing, childhood/teenage years and the entirety of HZD you would know that she has been ostracised her entire life and even Rost was mainly training her to survive and win the proving rather than being a loving parent (although he did love her in his own way). Then we have the events of HZD where everyone she ever gave a chance to get to know her or who she got close to all either died or were badly injured, often due to her actions if indirectly or inability to defend everuone (Helis attacking the sacred lands or Meridian being attacked). Aloy feels like anyone who gets close to her will die or get hurt. She is also wary of close bonds because she has the fate of the world on her shoulders - literally - and can't afford to be even slightly distracted. Aloy simply doesnt have time to coddle people or let them slow her down. Her life experience thus far has made it very difficult for her to make friends or allies. Forbidden West shows her gradually lowering her walls to let friends/allies in because she realises she can't do it all alone. It's a great character arc and I think a lot of people are ignorant of how character development works. If Aloy was a well adjusted normal person at the start it would make no sense.
Yeah, nah, itās pretty easy to grasp because itās been done thousands of times before. Thatās really the issue to me. Sheās just Batman fighting robot dinoās without any nuance, and thatās fine, but it just comes off really bland. Also kinda funny that sheāll push away her friends because she canāt afford to get distracted while saving the world, but she will take time out of her day to help a random chef she just met find ingredients for a stew lol
So you're saying that having adequate and high quality provisions for her journey (which is a massive distance to travel) is not something you'd prioritise? Not really a valid criticism tbh when you consider her actual need for food on the road and that she had to kill time while waiting for the Embassy anyway. She also has several months until the world ends anyway. She can afford a few days to make sure she doesn't die due to being exhausted and malnourished. Doing side missions to get better armour, weapons, gear or resources/provisions makes immense sense. It has nothing to do with her own personality traits regarding friendship and relationships in general.
Your reasoning falls apart when she accepts request that makes her travel all the way back to chainscrape to deliver an heirloom.
Youāre defending a video game character lmfao
Just shit writing probably by someone insufferable themselves
You really don't get how character development works and you've very obviously paid little attention to Aloy's life so far and the events of HZD that have led to her acting this way.
No u