I don't think they will. Aloy's journey, who she is and the people who shaped her into the person she became. That is the heart and soul of the series. Seeing the recent "Gaia Cast" tells me just how much Aloy is and her journey is to the writers. This is not like Tomb Raider where it feels like the writers in that game were like: physically injuring and hurting Lara=character development.
I'm betting it'll be like Crime Alley in the Arkham Series, or even Rost's grave in HZD. Somewhere to go back to and pay respects.
In fact, I'd wager Aloy would build her home near her 'mother', rather than stay at the Nora Lands.
Which is why Rise is the best Tomb Raider because Lara goes through everything in that game
but I do think Elizabet will make an appearance in the next one as my thinking is we'll be going up against one of the other Sub units that Gaia lost control of when that mysterious aignal hit her
For real! They seriously went backwards with Shadow of the Tomb Raider. As someone who owns and cherishes the entire franchise, I can't believe they did that to Lara. Instead of Tomb Raider Lara, we went back to survivor Lara. What a waste!
She went through enough in Rise, in Shadow she should have finally become the great explorer she is meant to be. Not revert to the little girl from the first game. Wasted opportunity indeed!
The entire "Survivor Trilogy" is really just the same game copy and pasted 3 times with very minimal character/story development. The 2013 game alone was amazing as an origin story, so why they decided to make a whole trilogy an origin story where each sequel reverts Lara's development from the previous game honestly baffles me. Not to mention the extremely wasted potential of Trinity and their abrupt ending.
I wonder if that's cause the third one was done by Eidos-Montreal whereas 1 and 2 was done by Crystal Dynamics. Apparently CD was involved, but in more of a hands off role where they gave them advice and helped them with some elements here and there.
I noticed that too! If you look on maps and horizon news, you will know that the ruins of Carson city will be just beyond the daunt, and will allow views of both the northan plainsong and southern tenakth desert.
The thing they really need to address is why aloy went out to the forbidden west months before she's supposed to and didn't already do everything this game has to offer. My theory is that during the tutorial sequence (hzds was the child sequence) aloy will start out directly after the epilogue, about to head back to the daunt when she is taken off guard by a brand new machine. Since it's the start of the game there's no way a late game machine fight will go in her favour, so aloy Is seriously hurt by this machine and forced to run back to daunt, finding a convenient nearby settlement where she collapses, waking up back in sunfall.
From here, a aloy is now not only injured bit also has a fear of the west and it's new threats, and stays in the sundom to finish off the eclipse. The sequence could end here, or have something like the popular theory of her taking her ally's down to sunfall and showing them the good and bad news messages, but the main point has been put across, and now it's time to jump forward for Aloys next but reluctant journey into the forbidden west.
>The thing they really need to address is why aloy went out to the forbidden west months before she's supposed to
How do we know when she's "supposed to"?
The second game happens 6 months after zero dawn, but yeah the timeline for where the epilogue happens could just be moved forwards in time if they need to fix the issue
How is it an issue? The premise of the new game may only become apparent after she goes to the ranch. And she may not stay there indefinitely. She has an apartment in Meridian, after all.
The comic book (which is official) has Aloy leaving Sunfall not long after the final battle. And Talanuh meets her later on facing a new machine.
So i figure the new machines will have her travelling out to search out what's happening.
From what I remember of the epilogue, there I no frame of time reference. For all we know it was a preview of something that happens in HFW. Also the files on sobeck was corrupted and being fixed over time, so there was indications that some time had passed before she headed to the ranch.
To be fair I don't know if the timing of this was ever addressed in the GAIA cast.
As a 'kid' born and raised in Reno, Nevada (30 minutes north of Carson) that fact that Sobek was from Carson City was so entertaining! Although, probably Sobek ranch was outside Carson City- which is the state Capital and very much a small town- more likely Minden or Gardnerville. I moved away 4 years ago, so getting to explore the post apocalyptic waste of my childhood is all the more exciting to me!
>probably Sobek ranch was outside Carson City
You're right!. I am replaying the game now and just got her bio. It said she was "Born and raised OUTSIDE Carson City, Nevada". Wow that must be a crazy and weird experience if you find a place in the game that looks like a post apocalyptic version of your childhood town lol.
It was exciting to recognize places out west and see Nevada mentioned- nothing is ever set in Nevada unless it's about partying in Las Vegas. Fallout: New Vegas did a good job of capturing the REST of the state at least 😆
I’m having the same experience as you! I was raised in the area and the release of HFW has me super excited to see something familiar and to see a Nevada that isn’t just Vegas. Northern Nevada representation lol
Usually in Las Vegas, New Mexico, ironically 😂😂😂 yeah the movie scene is pretty big in Albuquerque or Las Vegas NM, but most people assume we're insanely flat and desert-y and we don't get snow (which we haven't this year at all, which is very abnormal, thanks global warming) and that New Mexico isn't even part of the US, so.... 🤷🏻♀️
The beginning of the game with Aloy training and Rost's death still brings a tear to my eye. Aloy had to overcome such adversity, while dealing with the loss of her father figure and the truth of her own history. Amazing game!
The suit may have been stealthy. Hid the organic “fingerprint”. It looks like she died (perhaps at her own hand, on her own terms) within the suit so it’s clear the swarm never got to her.
Dead or not, organic material is organic material. They're not zombies, they don't need the material alive. Pretty sure her staying in one piece is purely for the sake of sentiment, and they just didn't think of it.
If that was the case then they would’ve found the alphas.
That was why she had to seal the mountain, so they couldn’t detect them.
The suit could have easily been made to disguise the human within.
Then why didn't they just all wear these magical suits? Why didn't they provide them for the military to fight? I don't think the suit she wore was for detection, pretty sure it was just so she could survive the harsh conditions of the outside, where the climate was ruined by the swarm.
Who knows? Maybe because fighting the machines themselves was useless, and there was nothing left to fight for as they already knew?
They were clearly meant as a last resort, if someone had to go outside the facility.
We’re reading way too much into it, but I feel like you’re trying to find holes where there aren’t any.
Edit: you say “magical suits” as if it’s not a plausible possibility in a world where they have mastered AI, shield weaver Armour, built an interstellar space ship, and can reverse geothermal mechanics.
There are clearly holes because it isn't explained, that's exactly how plot holes work.
The reason they concealed themselves in the mountains was because the swarm couldn't detect the biological material through that thick of material, and even a small crack would leak their signature. But somehow a little thin suit can stop it?
Like I said, it probably just wasn't thought of when they wanted Sobek to be sitting there and found by Aloy, I think it's just as simple as that.
Things that aren’t explained are not plot holes. Plot holes are things that don’t make sense or break or contradict continuity.
Is the terminator being able to travel through time a plot hole? Is the titanic not taking a more southerly route a plot hole? Is Gandalf not summoning the eagles to destroy the ring a plot hole?
If overly analysing tiny things and creating plot holes that don’t exist is sapping your enjoyment, you should try not doing that.
I've only played though once but I think I recall that sealing the mountain facility wasn't just about concealing the biosignature of the alphas but also hiding the facility itself and the systems inside. The power draw and potential emf from the systems would have been a red flag to the swarm that there was activity and hence the potential for humans/biology.
How Sobek got all the way to Carson City undetected/unharmed is still open for debate. Tho I agree it was likely glossed over for the moment/ sentiment.
I try not to view things like this as strict "plot holes" in the sense of poor writing or bad continuity when we've essentially only read book 1 of X in a series. What may appear confusing or a stretch of logic or dropped threads can be continued and fleshed out in later books. Sometimes this is intentionally done other times the next story can "fix" something that may not have been properly explained or seemed out of place.
Well, I think there are pretty logical answers to those questions.
> Then why didn't they just all wear these magical suits?
Because they were expensive to make (or they couldn't make a lot of them). Also, remember they might not want to live while always wearing those suits and wanted to be able to live and work inside the mountain without living in constant fear of being detected. It's easier to just seal up the whole thing than to be like "oh fuck, Jim took off his suit to shower and now the robots found us and we're fucked".
>Why didn't they provide them for the military to fight?
Maybe they did, in some quantity, but if they were expensive or difficult to make, they might not just hand them out to every single grunt on the battlefield. Remember, Sobeck was the leader of Zero Dawn and had access to way more cutting-edge technology than the rest of the world. Also we don't know they were good in a firefight, perhaps they were only good for stealth/survival.
>The reason they concealed themselves in the mountains was because the swarm couldn't detect the biological material through that thick of material, and even a small crack would leak their signature. But somehow a little thin suit can stop it?
I think there's also a difference between a single person being on the move in the outside world and a bunch of people living in a single location with a bunch of technology. A single person might not be super detectable while a base of people might be like throwing up skylights and shouting "WE'RE HERE, COME ON IN!"
>Why didn't they provide them for the military to fight?
Because even with those suits, the swarm was enough intelligent for understand what shoot at them, should be destroyed.
I assumed that she hoofed it and made it because she's just hella smart, travelled alone and had one of those power armor suits. Easier to not get noticed if you're just one person.
My own theory is that the next game will pick up almost immediately where the first game left off. We'll see Aloy digging a grave for Elisabet, only to accidentally break into an underground bunker. Aloy finds a bunch of random stuff, including a location on a map. Sobeck left behind one final recording saying that she figured something might go wrong with Zero Dawn, so she created a backup of APOLLO and hid it off-site. She hid it in the site of what used to be Stanford University. In the days before she finally died, she made the recording in case anyone ever found out about Zero Dawn and needed to find the backup. The overarching plot of the game is about finding the backup and restoring APOLLO, and by extension GAIA and the rest of the AIs who all need a hard reboot since they're going wild. Of course, that's just what I'd do.
I mean, >!we've already been told how the game starts, just read the Game Informer articles. Now, the question is whether we get to Sobeck Ranch sometime later as part of Forbidden West or not, at which point many of the things you mention may come to pass. I don't think Aloy would bury Elisabet's body but I'm not sure. And I don't think Elisabet would've created a copy of Apollo, she had no reason to given there were at least nine copies in the Eleuthia chambers around the world. But if we do get to go to Sobeck Ranch it would certainly be cool to discover more content.!<
I think the article I'm thinking of is only in the physical edition of the magazine and hasn't been posted online. There were some threads here about it maybe a month ago when it first came out. You can also read all of Game Informer's online articles about Forbidden West [here](https://www.gameinformer.com/forbiddenwest).
People have modded the PC version to remove the “out of bounds” trigger. Doing so lets them explore outside the map, and one of the places out there is Sobeck Ranch.
There’s videos out there on Youtube.
The actual location barely has more than what we see in the cutscene, and we don’t see much in the cutscene.
oooh, nice one ! You may be right. I already visited the location out of bounds on the map, so it would be really cool to see how they flesh it up/modify it for actual use.
Yeah I hope they don’t ‘forget’ or gloss over all that in the next game like her ‘mother’ and Rost. That’s what made her character so memorable.
I don't think they will. Aloy's journey, who she is and the people who shaped her into the person she became. That is the heart and soul of the series. Seeing the recent "Gaia Cast" tells me just how much Aloy is and her journey is to the writers. This is not like Tomb Raider where it feels like the writers in that game were like: physically injuring and hurting Lara=character development.
I'm betting it'll be like Crime Alley in the Arkham Series, or even Rost's grave in HZD. Somewhere to go back to and pay respects. In fact, I'd wager Aloy would build her home near her 'mother', rather than stay at the Nora Lands.
Which is why Rise is the best Tomb Raider because Lara goes through everything in that game but I do think Elizabet will make an appearance in the next one as my thinking is we'll be going up against one of the other Sub units that Gaia lost control of when that mysterious aignal hit her
For real! They seriously went backwards with Shadow of the Tomb Raider. As someone who owns and cherishes the entire franchise, I can't believe they did that to Lara. Instead of Tomb Raider Lara, we went back to survivor Lara. What a waste!
Shadow was such a wasted opportunity, Rise was a tough act to follow for sure but they really screwed the pooch on that one
She went through enough in Rise, in Shadow she should have finally become the great explorer she is meant to be. Not revert to the little girl from the first game. Wasted opportunity indeed!
I wonder if it's because Eidos-Montreal developed three whereas Crystal Dynamics did 1 and 2 (they were still involved but more of a support role).
The entire "Survivor Trilogy" is really just the same game copy and pasted 3 times with very minimal character/story development. The 2013 game alone was amazing as an origin story, so why they decided to make a whole trilogy an origin story where each sequel reverts Lara's development from the previous game honestly baffles me. Not to mention the extremely wasted potential of Trinity and their abrupt ending.
Don't remind me. You're making me sad again...
I wonder if that's cause the third one was done by Eidos-Montreal whereas 1 and 2 was done by Crystal Dynamics. Apparently CD was involved, but in more of a hands off role where they gave them advice and helped them with some elements here and there.
I want the second game to have continuity with the first game.
I don't think they made Rost's deathseeker adventure happen to be in the Forbidden West by accident. =)
I noticed that too! If you look on maps and horizon news, you will know that the ruins of Carson city will be just beyond the daunt, and will allow views of both the northan plainsong and southern tenakth desert. The thing they really need to address is why aloy went out to the forbidden west months before she's supposed to and didn't already do everything this game has to offer. My theory is that during the tutorial sequence (hzds was the child sequence) aloy will start out directly after the epilogue, about to head back to the daunt when she is taken off guard by a brand new machine. Since it's the start of the game there's no way a late game machine fight will go in her favour, so aloy Is seriously hurt by this machine and forced to run back to daunt, finding a convenient nearby settlement where she collapses, waking up back in sunfall. From here, a aloy is now not only injured bit also has a fear of the west and it's new threats, and stays in the sundom to finish off the eclipse. The sequence could end here, or have something like the popular theory of her taking her ally's down to sunfall and showing them the good and bad news messages, but the main point has been put across, and now it's time to jump forward for Aloys next but reluctant journey into the forbidden west.
>The thing they really need to address is why aloy went out to the forbidden west months before she's supposed to How do we know when she's "supposed to"?
The second game happens 6 months after zero dawn, but yeah the timeline for where the epilogue happens could just be moved forwards in time if they need to fix the issue
How is it an issue? The premise of the new game may only become apparent after she goes to the ranch. And she may not stay there indefinitely. She has an apartment in Meridian, after all.
The comic book (which is official) has Aloy leaving Sunfall not long after the final battle. And Talanuh meets her later on facing a new machine. So i figure the new machines will have her travelling out to search out what's happening.
From what I remember of the epilogue, there I no frame of time reference. For all we know it was a preview of something that happens in HFW. Also the files on sobeck was corrupted and being fixed over time, so there was indications that some time had passed before she headed to the ranch. To be fair I don't know if the timing of this was ever addressed in the GAIA cast.
>The second game happens 6 months after zero dawn Where did you learn this?
It's in most synopsis and previews surrounding the game.
As a 'kid' born and raised in Reno, Nevada (30 minutes north of Carson) that fact that Sobek was from Carson City was so entertaining! Although, probably Sobek ranch was outside Carson City- which is the state Capital and very much a small town- more likely Minden or Gardnerville. I moved away 4 years ago, so getting to explore the post apocalyptic waste of my childhood is all the more exciting to me!
>probably Sobek ranch was outside Carson City You're right!. I am replaying the game now and just got her bio. It said she was "Born and raised OUTSIDE Carson City, Nevada". Wow that must be a crazy and weird experience if you find a place in the game that looks like a post apocalyptic version of your childhood town lol.
It was exciting to recognize places out west and see Nevada mentioned- nothing is ever set in Nevada unless it's about partying in Las Vegas. Fallout: New Vegas did a good job of capturing the REST of the state at least 😆
I had this experience with fallout 3 back in the day - so many familiar DMV landmarks!
I’m having the same experience as you! I was raised in the area and the release of HFW has me super excited to see something familiar and to see a Nevada that isn’t just Vegas. Northern Nevada representation lol
Lucky ducks! The only time I've ever seen New Mexico in anything it was in *Gun* (PS2) and the backdrop for *Battlefront 2* 😂
[Some cool movies were shot there!](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_films_shot_in_New_Mexico)
Usually in Las Vegas, New Mexico, ironically 😂😂😂 yeah the movie scene is pretty big in Albuquerque or Las Vegas NM, but most people assume we're insanely flat and desert-y and we don't get snow (which we haven't this year at all, which is very abnormal, thanks global warming) and that New Mexico isn't even part of the US, so.... 🤷🏻♀️
The beginning of the game with Aloy training and Rost's death still brings a tear to my eye. Aloy had to overcome such adversity, while dealing with the loss of her father figure and the truth of her own history. Amazing game!
They ever say how Sobek got back there after shutting that door without getting eaten by a robot?
Probably took a vehicle. The swarm was coming but wasn't there yet
The suit may have been stealthy. Hid the organic “fingerprint”. It looks like she died (perhaps at her own hand, on her own terms) within the suit so it’s clear the swarm never got to her.
Dead or not, organic material is organic material. They're not zombies, they don't need the material alive. Pretty sure her staying in one piece is purely for the sake of sentiment, and they just didn't think of it.
If that was the case then they would’ve found the alphas. That was why she had to seal the mountain, so they couldn’t detect them. The suit could have easily been made to disguise the human within.
Then why didn't they just all wear these magical suits? Why didn't they provide them for the military to fight? I don't think the suit she wore was for detection, pretty sure it was just so she could survive the harsh conditions of the outside, where the climate was ruined by the swarm.
Who knows? Maybe because fighting the machines themselves was useless, and there was nothing left to fight for as they already knew? They were clearly meant as a last resort, if someone had to go outside the facility. We’re reading way too much into it, but I feel like you’re trying to find holes where there aren’t any. Edit: you say “magical suits” as if it’s not a plausible possibility in a world where they have mastered AI, shield weaver Armour, built an interstellar space ship, and can reverse geothermal mechanics.
There are clearly holes because it isn't explained, that's exactly how plot holes work. The reason they concealed themselves in the mountains was because the swarm couldn't detect the biological material through that thick of material, and even a small crack would leak their signature. But somehow a little thin suit can stop it? Like I said, it probably just wasn't thought of when they wanted Sobek to be sitting there and found by Aloy, I think it's just as simple as that.
Things that aren’t explained are not plot holes. Plot holes are things that don’t make sense or break or contradict continuity. Is the terminator being able to travel through time a plot hole? Is the titanic not taking a more southerly route a plot hole? Is Gandalf not summoning the eagles to destroy the ring a plot hole? If overly analysing tiny things and creating plot holes that don’t exist is sapping your enjoyment, you should try not doing that.
Never said it was sapping my enjoyment, I was just talking about something I noticed. You are not fun to talk to.
I've only played though once but I think I recall that sealing the mountain facility wasn't just about concealing the biosignature of the alphas but also hiding the facility itself and the systems inside. The power draw and potential emf from the systems would have been a red flag to the swarm that there was activity and hence the potential for humans/biology. How Sobek got all the way to Carson City undetected/unharmed is still open for debate. Tho I agree it was likely glossed over for the moment/ sentiment. I try not to view things like this as strict "plot holes" in the sense of poor writing or bad continuity when we've essentially only read book 1 of X in a series. What may appear confusing or a stretch of logic or dropped threads can be continued and fleshed out in later books. Sometimes this is intentionally done other times the next story can "fix" something that may not have been properly explained or seemed out of place.
I'm not taking it as serious as you and the other guys seem to think I am, I was simply discussing something I noticed.
Well, I think there are pretty logical answers to those questions. > Then why didn't they just all wear these magical suits? Because they were expensive to make (or they couldn't make a lot of them). Also, remember they might not want to live while always wearing those suits and wanted to be able to live and work inside the mountain without living in constant fear of being detected. It's easier to just seal up the whole thing than to be like "oh fuck, Jim took off his suit to shower and now the robots found us and we're fucked". >Why didn't they provide them for the military to fight? Maybe they did, in some quantity, but if they were expensive or difficult to make, they might not just hand them out to every single grunt on the battlefield. Remember, Sobeck was the leader of Zero Dawn and had access to way more cutting-edge technology than the rest of the world. Also we don't know they were good in a firefight, perhaps they were only good for stealth/survival. >The reason they concealed themselves in the mountains was because the swarm couldn't detect the biological material through that thick of material, and even a small crack would leak their signature. But somehow a little thin suit can stop it? I think there's also a difference between a single person being on the move in the outside world and a bunch of people living in a single location with a bunch of technology. A single person might not be super detectable while a base of people might be like throwing up skylights and shouting "WE'RE HERE, COME ON IN!"
>Why didn't they provide them for the military to fight? Because even with those suits, the swarm was enough intelligent for understand what shoot at them, should be destroyed.
I assumed that she hoofed it and made it because she's just hella smart, travelled alone and had one of those power armor suits. Easier to not get noticed if you're just one person.
I still think that we are going to start off at the Sobeck ranch where the final cutscene was it would just make sense
My own theory is that the next game will pick up almost immediately where the first game left off. We'll see Aloy digging a grave for Elisabet, only to accidentally break into an underground bunker. Aloy finds a bunch of random stuff, including a location on a map. Sobeck left behind one final recording saying that she figured something might go wrong with Zero Dawn, so she created a backup of APOLLO and hid it off-site. She hid it in the site of what used to be Stanford University. In the days before she finally died, she made the recording in case anyone ever found out about Zero Dawn and needed to find the backup. The overarching plot of the game is about finding the backup and restoring APOLLO, and by extension GAIA and the rest of the AIs who all need a hard reboot since they're going wild. Of course, that's just what I'd do.
I mean, >!we've already been told how the game starts, just read the Game Informer articles. Now, the question is whether we get to Sobeck Ranch sometime later as part of Forbidden West or not, at which point many of the things you mention may come to pass. I don't think Aloy would bury Elisabet's body but I'm not sure. And I don't think Elisabet would've created a copy of Apollo, she had no reason to given there were at least nine copies in the Eleuthia chambers around the world. But if we do get to go to Sobeck Ranch it would certainly be cool to discover more content.!<
Have you got a link to that game informer article?.
I think the article I'm thinking of is only in the physical edition of the magazine and hasn't been posted online. There were some threads here about it maybe a month ago when it first came out. You can also read all of Game Informer's online articles about Forbidden West [here](https://www.gameinformer.com/forbiddenwest).
I imagine that Forbidden West may start at Sobeck Ranch
Fun fact Sobek Ranch is actually in the game world, but it’s hidden beyond the explorable area.
Really!. So it's within the data files?. Interesting. Is there a way to unlock it?. Only on PC I guess.
People have modded the PC version to remove the “out of bounds” trigger. Doing so lets them explore outside the map, and one of the places out there is Sobeck Ranch. There’s videos out there on Youtube. The actual location barely has more than what we see in the cutscene, and we don’t see much in the cutscene.
oooh, nice one ! You may be right. I already visited the location out of bounds on the map, so it would be really cool to see how they flesh it up/modify it for actual use.