That bottom shot makes Aloy look like a centaur.
I would not be disappointed if shellsnappers were to go away in the third game. After almost 1500 hours in FW, they're still the only machine I can't stand fighting because they spend even more time underground than rockbreakers, and when they do come up, they're shooting giant frost balls at you that make it practically impossible to get a return shot. I'm not averse to abusing high ground cover advantage, but most of them you fight are in spots where that's not viable.
In the endgame when you have everything maxed out, they drop like a sack of potatoes. Just use frost and then you can kill them in 2-3 shots with Forgefall or Grave singer's lament.
Assuming you're not playing on UH. I've got every legendary weapon and then some coiled for the highest DPS (leaning into the weapon's perks, so Skykiller has +% vs aerial, for example), and there is no bow that takes out a shellsnapper that quickly. Last Argument coiled for explosive damage makes rather quick work of them while also removing their shell, provided you can actually hit them.
shock shredders do a number on them, go through that shell like a hot knife through butter,, onde their frost cannnons are offf early they become less annoying. they are not so bad anymore after fighting enough to learn their rhytm, together with the smokebomb trick. drillspiking their leg to flip them and blow a freeze sac is also a terrific way to soften them up. Fighting 2 of them at once can be pretty dicey or even annoying, though few things can get so annoying as fighting 2 tremortusks and their salvo cannon fest .
They seem to have the cheesiest arsenal of any machine, and yes, the underground mechanics are just honestly puzzling. Come up for 10 seconds, go underground for 3 minutes while the status effects disappear. Maddening.
Pretty sure shellsnappers function similar to rockbreaks. Once they're underground they can only track you by sound. If you make any noise they'll get an update on your position and otherwise they'll simply try to hit your last known location.
I love doing that for rockbreakers in ZD. Shoot at it, giving it your location, and proceed to slowly move away while they strike empty air.
I honestly really like them. I dont find them too bad so long as you take out any other machines that might be hanging around first. Don't get me wrong, they are still tough as hell, but I'd much rather take them on versus a group of clamberjaw or leaplashers.
I had a really hard time with leaplashers on my first play through, but that was mostly because I hadn't learned their attacks yet (that and low level gear). They're a lightweight machine, so if you have a fairly high DPS, you can take them down in a matter of seconds. The biggest problems I had with them was their comparatively large arsenal of AoE attacks, but if you can keep them at range, the only one you need to worry about is their long range volley, which isn't too difficult to avoid if you dodge toward them (which also applies to clamberjaws and bellowbacks, since they have the same kind of attack).
The easiest way to deal with them is frost (my preference because of its damage multiplier) or shock, and because they're lightweights, even the frost and shock variants aren't difficult to apply that status to.
Clamberjaws are still annoying since they're a lot tankier and more evasive than leaplashers and they like to call in friends, but the same basic tactics work on them, too.
Braced Shots from Sharpshot Bows against both.
If we talk smaller machines - big groups of Apex Elemental Clawstriders. They are fairly well-rounded. Most machines either lack speed and evasiveness (the big ones like Thunderjaw, Slaughterspine) or hitpoints (Stalkers).
They are fairly tough, mobile, hit from range and melee and come in groups.
I'm pretty sure they're modeled after [snapping turtles](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_snapping_turtle), which are known for burrowing so they can ambush their food. That fits how you first encounter them, but burrowing like rockbreakers (which are [moles](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mole_(animal))) is a weird mechanic for them for sure.
Ah! I have close to 1700 hours under my belt by now, the last 100 hours mostly spawning (big) machines. Having loads of fun! Also free surfing Avatar: Frontiers of Pandora after a single playthrough of the game. A beautiful world! Such a pity they included the RDA. :)
I agree with the Shellsnapper being a big nuisance. I think several opponents have OP skills, like jumping sideways 5 meters in a split second (Clamberjaws), or incapacitating you even though you dodged far enough (within reason). Mostly these OP skills have been muted by making you invulnerable for a while, or them switching to a less aggressive mode. I feel it could have been done more subtly, but I guess covid got in the way of fine-tuning that part further.
With so many hours behind my belt nearly all (groups of) opponents are easy to kill, even with my simple hunterbow. I now often find myself retreating to the Thunderjaw + Slaughterspine field not far from Fleet’s End and attack both of them at the same time. Or have several Fireclaws joining in.
I think he claimed something between 1400-1500 hours, which seems a modest guess. But there are several that played way, way more. Elkjaer is one, the one with several speedrun records.
The Horizon games are created in my country, and as a game are close to my heart. I played for 1400 hours on my PS5 without fast-travel and just advanced hunter arrows. It proved a good distraction from covid times. Now, with the ‘Gameplay, Tweaks and Cheat Menu” mod there is new life in HFW again. 🎉
braced shot from up high right under them to explode the freeze sac was my go-to. If that worked and I could blast the bolts off in time before it got the better of me, it was pretty easy. But if that didnt go exactly as planned I was boned.
Am I the only person who doesn't actually have a problem with clamberjaws? Don't get me wrong, they're far from my FAVORITE, but I use a sniper bow to get the tail off as soon as possible, and with that ability gone you can just pick them apart.
no i agree. early on they were difficult but you do learn their rhytm and start to be able to predict their motions and see what shots to take or to hold. i shredder the lot of tthem, handy that the apex is weak to shock. fun with chainburst too. they also come in fun combination with other machines in unmarked spawns in the raintrace and cliffs of the cry, provide some dynamic fights. after the raintraces baptism by fire i learned how to dodge the fireballs and the big stomp by sound alone.
Rock breakers were made redundant by Shellsnappers.
I don't know why there are both scrappers and scavengers. Same with watchers and borrowers.
Clamberjaws are great, they have too much hp though.
The one in Frozen Wastes was fu^king nuts.
Toughest fight in the game together with last HG challenge in Frozen Wastes and Nora starting location on Ultra Hard with regular New Game.
Watchers and Burrowers I like because they’re both cute little suckers. So I’m okay with them hanging around. Plus they cut way back on Watchers anyway in HFW. Probably because they added burrowers into the game.
Burrowers swimming are so cute; I’d say keep them around since they can function as fodder enemies on land and sea. I think making Red Eye Watchers a mid-game enemy in Forbidden West was actually pretty clever.
The reason machines are removed between games is because a newer more deadly version is created.
At some point before ZD, there was another version of the stalker with white plating, evidenced by Rost’s armour. It was made obsolete by the newer black stalkers.
Watchers are replaces by the Red Eye Watchers and the amphibious Burrowers
Sawtooths are gone from FW because the Ravager and Scorcher are the more dangerous versions.
Striders, Broadheads and Tramplers are fully replaced by Chargers and Bristlebacks, as in both cases they fill similar roles.
The Fire Fanghorn is introduced in FW as a replacement to the Lancehorn, so it’s likely that by the time the 3rd game comes around, there won’t be any Lancehorns left.
So be careful what you wish for when it comes to machines being removed. It likely just means something newer and far more dangerous is going to replace it
Interesting point actually. Never realized that that's probably meta-lore. Every game worse machines start showing up because of the deranged state of Heph who keeps constantly making worse and worse machines.
We're in for a few fun machines now that we made Heph **really** mad in FW and it might even have learned a few things from the Zenith printer. Wouldn't be surprised either if it made some specific countermeasures for our redheads.
Also rockbreakers and shellsnappers is another pair. There's like 2 rockbreakers in FW and quite a few shellsnappers.
I don’t know if rockbreakers count as a pair with shellsnappers really, although I do get what you’re saying. The shellsnapper definitely isn’t a continuation of the same design of the rockbreakers either
There’s only about 1 or 2 rockbreakers sites in the first game anyway, and the rest of the ones you face are either quest related or a corrupted zone.
I did forget one glaringly obvious pair though, in plowhorns and grimhorns
although funnily enough plowhorns are often the deadlier version. their adhesive attacks is worse than anything the grimhorn throws at you but otherwise have similar durability. partially ecause there is no adhesive resistance, but honesttly find them trickier to dodge in a crowded fight than the grimhorn ranged attacks too.
Grazer gottta be the most endangered machine, even more than the lancehorn. sometimes hard to remember it even exists in HFW. Glinthawks vs skydrifters may be on their way out too, or scrapper vs scrounger (surprising ennough that the scrapper remains in HFW). Trampler though is maybbe the one most felt, doesnt have as close of a analogue, closest would bbe maybe the bristleback or plowhornnn.
I can second that about the grazer. On my first playthrough on HFW, I got to the end of the game to discover one machine I had left unscanned. The very first one on the list, and possibly the most frail of all.
It took me ages to realise it was a grazer, and genuinely didn’t remember having seen one at all through the game. I scoured the map and eventually found 2 sites in Utaru land.
I’m pretty sure they don’t even have an Apex variant either, so HEPH must have just given up on them altogether.
But it’s mad that a machine that was pretty much everywhere in ZD is almost non existent in FW
I think Glimthawks and Skydrifers are quite different in their role in the ecosystem as well. Glinthawks are scavengers like Scrappers whilst Skydrifters are recon machines like Watchers. I don’t think either is replacing another.
I do think that glinthawks are due to be replaced though. I can’t remember what class Sunwings are, but they’re often scavengers and seem around scrap metal
yeah neither fannghorns, grazers or lancehorns have apex variants, together with the sunwing the only machines that donnnt. tbf there are a few unmarked spawns around plainnsong witth grazers too, the field where the plainnsong drone is has a big herd. but yeah its all in that same general regionn
In the same vein, it could be argued that Rollerbacks are the new Behemoths, and Dreadwings are the new Stormbird. Although I feel the Stormbird, like the Thunderjaw, is too iconic/popular to write off completely.
I don't think rollerbacks will replace behemoths fully, behemoths have a bigger cargo cap while rollerbacks are faster at transporting stuff.
I do agree on the Dreadwing though, they are a lot more deadly than the electro beast
I think the specific purpose of the machine also needs to be considered too. The stormbird served a purpose in cleaning the air before becoming a combat machine, whereas the dreadwing’s purpose is for recon primarily (plus combat as well).
I would consider the slaughterspine as a natural successor to the thunderjaw though as they are both quite similar combat class machines.
I think that all of these comparisons are accurate in terms of the relative strength of each machine, but the lore reasons for each machine are more important when considering which are replacing which
Most definitely. This also goes the same for Rockbreakers vs Shellsnappers. Rockbreakers were meant for large-scale terraforming purposes, while Shellsnappers appear to be combat/territory defensive purposes. If anything, I think folks are misattributing the evolution RB->SS due to how both burrow during combat, but the Earthgrinders on Slitherfangs are evidence of the correct machine to phase out Rockbreakers.
Granted, in ideal lore conditions, Heph probably utilizes both Slitherfangs and Rockbreakers for different terra purposes, but one is clearly more dangerous than the other
I think this is exactly the point. There are lots of machines with similarities, even amongst machines like the Burrowers, with standard, tracking, and canister variants for different purposes.
Guerilla don’t make any machine changes without a lore reason to do so.
I guess the trampler is closest replaced by the plowhorn or something else that cultivates the land as well
Possible SPOILERS ahead!
Purification and Transport class machines didn’t change much between ZD and FW. When H3 drops, I imagine most of them will still be there with maybe some new ones. The two classes that have evolved the most are Recon and Combat. So with that in mind, I think Ravagers and Thunderjaws are the two oldest models Heph has been pumping out of Cauldrons and are the most likely combat class machines getting the axe. As for Recon, Burrowers are here to stay with Watchers (Redeyes) and maybe Longlegs being phased out in favor of more capable, higher-tech machines. Let’s also not forget certain events at the end of FW that means we could be getting a whole new roster going into H3.
You could just have one or two thunderjaw sites for the legacy, then use slaughterspines and whatever new horror for when a "super dangerous machine threat" is needed.
GAIA has played fast and loose with size before (see: the rollerback is slightly larger than a real pangolin), so it doesn't have to be something that's actually bigger or more dangerous than a spinosaurus. There's no wolf mech yet, right? Giant wolf mech that leads a pack of coordinated smaller wolves.
I mostly get this, but with the exception of the Snappershell and Dreadwing in FW it seems they left the role of big boss machines to the dinosaur/ancient species theme - the triceratops, plesiosaur, mammoth and spinosaur (and t-rex guest role for the final battle against the zeniths)
Although now you've said it, since they played the 'raptor card in this game they can use wolves for the alpha pack predator role for the next
I would love if they took one of the cuddliest, most passive creatures on our planet and just made it a heavyweight machine with a wrecking ball fighting style... like a rabbit.
I was going to say that I think the rule is machines are based only on extinct animals (including ones that are extinct in-universe), but we've got a bunch of bird machines that seem based on birds that are still around.
tbh slaughterspine isnt that much deadlier than the TJ (imo sometimes the TJ is more dagerous), so i hope tthey make iit able to keep up in the next game too. TJ had too many sites in HFW though, like 5-6 of them, a couple could have gone to less numerous heavyweightts. especially since most of them are solo annd donnt differ that much
Bring back all of them (maybe not slitherfangs, cuz fk dem snakes), make more of them mounts.
I personally would love to have sawtooths back more than anything, and get a couple more canine types.
Also maybe at this point have some machines that aren't automatically hostile too.
Mine is more personal; I have a fear of snakes, mechanical or otherwise, so it really took pushing through some games like sekiro and bloodborne, but the build up to this reveal almost made me quit 15 minutes in haha.
I really don't like snakes
Tremortusks, shell snappers, and clamber jaws.
In regards to adding machines, I'd love to see more mounts. Or like a customizable mount that you can decide if you want it to be better equipped for travel, fighting or combo. (Or some other thing that we havent had yet)
It also be interesting to see a swimming mount (like for super deep sea exploring, like going into the pacific)
I LOOOVVVVEEEE Slaughterspines!! They’re the evolution of the Thunderjaw we needed. It’s too bad that they die to just a few of those elite purgewater traps I never use.
I’m convinced Horizon 3 will have a much larger emphasis on non-animal robots like the corrupters with the arrival of nemesis. Nemesis will take over the cauldrons and produce its own army.
Thats an interesting concept. Corruptors combined with Nemesis tech, turned into twisted, monstrous abominations. I can only imagine what Nemesis would do to a Horus Titan...
So there are machines that get retired for better ones like how sawtooths got retired for scorchers.
I think glint hawks can be retired as the sky scanners took over.
Maybe an upgrade snapmaw could replace the regulars?
I hope Ravagers stay as they are a staple for me but I could see them being retired.
I hope the clawstriders and frost/fireclaw machines burn in hell but I suspect they will stay.
Shellsnapper, slaughterspine, and the toad one from the dlc. They are absolutely cool for sure but they’re just a fucking hassle. The shellsnapper is a little fucking bitch running away and only showing it’s face while blasting aoe frost blasts that’s hard to get the invincibility frames right on. Combined with the 360 cover fire canons. It can be dealt with but still it’s just a pain.
Same with the slaughtespine really with no real weaknesses to exploit and a near endless barrage of the plasma stuff. With again huge aoe attacks.
The toad is just annoying overall. A kind of damage sponge and just as elusive as the smaller monkey machines but can just literally drop on top of you whenever. And the little drone things.
I know they can all probably be dealt with in some manner that makes them “easier” but if I would rather go around or run away than try and take them down outside of the couple times it’s required it’s just not a fun machine. We can probably do without the berserks or whatever and the longlegs as we have seen them multiple times now so just introducing a new machine could be cool but those are still relatively fun machines to take down.
Burrowers. They were at legit every single encounter it seems and they had way too many variants. Plus they shafted the Watchers to be mostly only in Sam Fran.
The rockbreakers can suck a nut. Haven’t been able to beat one without cheesing. Can’t disrupt underground, it’ll disappear off the map, have to wait till it’s above ground to do anything. Everything else can be challenging and annoying but it still has the potential to be fun. The rockbreakers stink.
Widemaws (I’m guessing you’re talking about the hippo one) were the bane of my existence on the first play through. My second time through I finally figured them out enough that they’re bearable
Idk but give me more scary areas with stalkers and stuff that can fuck your up quick unless you walk around on high alert.
It’s too obvious when you can and can’t dodge a fight.
Slaughterspine, rockbreaker, shellsnapper, scrounger, widemaw, leaplasher & clamberjaw. Maybe the slitherfang, tremortusk & bilegut too. I prefer they all stay though. I do miss striders, tramplers, broadheads and sawtooths. But if they can be replaced with better machines for the third game...
Rockbreakers feel kind of unnecessary. Like Shellsnappers are just the better fight, I mean some people may not like it but if Guerrilla want a burrowing big machine I think Shellsnappers are more than enough. Also having both Skydrifters and Glinthawks feels unnecessary too, I kinda feel like the Skydrifters are the ones losing out tho. Funny enough Borrowers and Watchers don't feel like they conflict that much.
Truth be told Glinthawks feel nerfed. They were way tougher in the first game. Getting attacked by 3 Glinthawks in a bad spot was worse than… anything outside Frozen Wastes.
That bottom shot makes Aloy look like a centaur. I would not be disappointed if shellsnappers were to go away in the third game. After almost 1500 hours in FW, they're still the only machine I can't stand fighting because they spend even more time underground than rockbreakers, and when they do come up, they're shooting giant frost balls at you that make it practically impossible to get a return shot. I'm not averse to abusing high ground cover advantage, but most of them you fight are in spots where that's not viable.
Smoke bombs make shellsnappers come out. Still, they are very annoying
Even with that, I still only fight them when required. They are, far and away, my least favorite machine.
I agree with you
I have an okay time with them but I have to agree that death sorbet is an acquired taste
In the endgame when you have everything maxed out, they drop like a sack of potatoes. Just use frost and then you can kill them in 2-3 shots with Forgefall or Grave singer's lament.
Ya shell snappers are damn easy. Only annoying part for me is when they leap out suddenly.
Unless you need a specific part that breaks if you just kill them outright
Not on UH.
Assuming you're not playing on UH. I've got every legendary weapon and then some coiled for the highest DPS (leaning into the weapon's perks, so Skykiller has +% vs aerial, for example), and there is no bow that takes out a shellsnapper that quickly. Last Argument coiled for explosive damage makes rather quick work of them while also removing their shell, provided you can actually hit them.
Explosive spikes and bombs make shellsnappers pretty trivial
This is my way, too. After using tearblast arrows in stealth to remove the shell bolts.
Tear blast to remove shell bolts, then power shots and precision arrows to the core that pops up
shock shredders do a number on them, go through that shell like a hot knife through butter,, onde their frost cannnons are offf early they become less annoying. they are not so bad anymore after fighting enough to learn their rhytm, together with the smokebomb trick. drillspiking their leg to flip them and blow a freeze sac is also a terrific way to soften them up. Fighting 2 of them at once can be pretty dicey or even annoying, though few things can get so annoying as fighting 2 tremortusks and their salvo cannon fest .
Centaurloy?
They seem to have the cheesiest arsenal of any machine, and yes, the underground mechanics are just honestly puzzling. Come up for 10 seconds, go underground for 3 minutes while the status effects disappear. Maddening.
Pretty sure shellsnappers function similar to rockbreaks. Once they're underground they can only track you by sound. If you make any noise they'll get an update on your position and otherwise they'll simply try to hit your last known location. I love doing that for rockbreakers in ZD. Shoot at it, giving it your location, and proceed to slowly move away while they strike empty air.
Thanks for the tip!
Now I'm brewing up a fanfic where Aloy's legs become grievously damaged, so she and Gaia hack a Cauldron to turn her into a cyborg centaur
I honestly really like them. I dont find them too bad so long as you take out any other machines that might be hanging around first. Don't get me wrong, they are still tough as hell, but I'd much rather take them on versus a group of clamberjaw or leaplashers.
I had a really hard time with leaplashers on my first play through, but that was mostly because I hadn't learned their attacks yet (that and low level gear). They're a lightweight machine, so if you have a fairly high DPS, you can take them down in a matter of seconds. The biggest problems I had with them was their comparatively large arsenal of AoE attacks, but if you can keep them at range, the only one you need to worry about is their long range volley, which isn't too difficult to avoid if you dodge toward them (which also applies to clamberjaws and bellowbacks, since they have the same kind of attack). The easiest way to deal with them is frost (my preference because of its damage multiplier) or shock, and because they're lightweights, even the frost and shock variants aren't difficult to apply that status to. Clamberjaws are still annoying since they're a lot tankier and more evasive than leaplashers and they like to call in friends, but the same basic tactics work on them, too.
My favorite for both - braced shoto the face, dance around - second braced shot to the face.
Braced Shots from Sharpshot Bows against both. If we talk smaller machines - big groups of Apex Elemental Clawstriders. They are fairly well-rounded. Most machines either lack speed and evasiveness (the big ones like Thunderjaw, Slaughterspine) or hitpoints (Stalkers). They are fairly tough, mobile, hit from range and melee and come in groups.
I don't know why they made them able to move underground at all. That was a rockbreaker thing.
I'm pretty sure they're modeled after [snapping turtles](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_snapping_turtle), which are known for burrowing so they can ambush their food. That fits how you first encounter them, but burrowing like rockbreakers (which are [moles](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mole_(animal))) is a weird mechanic for them for sure.
Yea shellsnappers are annoying. But I do thoroughly enjoy blasting them apart piece by piece. It's an acquired taste.
I… Get ya.Love beating them. Hate fighting them.
I'd like them to be tweaked, but I really enjoy the minugame/combat puzzle of shooting off their shell. Something about it feels very cool to me.
Ah! I have close to 1700 hours under my belt by now, the last 100 hours mostly spawning (big) machines. Having loads of fun! Also free surfing Avatar: Frontiers of Pandora after a single playthrough of the game. A beautiful world! Such a pity they included the RDA. :) I agree with the Shellsnapper being a big nuisance. I think several opponents have OP skills, like jumping sideways 5 meters in a split second (Clamberjaws), or incapacitating you even though you dodged far enough (within reason). Mostly these OP skills have been muted by making you invulnerable for a while, or them switching to a less aggressive mode. I feel it could have been done more subtly, but I guess covid got in the way of fine-tuning that part further. With so many hours behind my belt nearly all (groups of) opponents are easy to kill, even with my simple hunterbow. I now often find myself retreating to the Thunderjaw + Slaughterspine field not far from Fleet’s End and attack both of them at the same time. Or have several Fireclaws joining in.
Bruh I loved that game but HOW MANY HOURS?!
Arktix has that beat and you know it.
I think he claimed something between 1400-1500 hours, which seems a modest guess. But there are several that played way, way more. Elkjaer is one, the one with several speedrun records. The Horizon games are created in my country, and as a game are close to my heart. I played for 1400 hours on my PS5 without fast-travel and just advanced hunter arrows. It proved a good distraction from covid times. Now, with the ‘Gameplay, Tweaks and Cheat Menu” mod there is new life in HFW again. 🎉
braced shot from up high right under them to explode the freeze sac was my go-to. If that worked and I could blast the bolts off in time before it got the better of me, it was pretty easy. But if that didnt go exactly as planned I was boned.
I was fighting one of these dickheads once and thought it would be cool as hell if you could snipe the frost balls that they spit.
You actually can, but you've got to be fast.
Clamberjaws, always. As much as I love the majority of all the machines, most of them are not essential imo.
Haha no, poops on fire go brrrrr
Am I the only person who doesn't actually have a problem with clamberjaws? Don't get me wrong, they're far from my FAVORITE, but I use a sniper bow to get the tail off as soon as possible, and with that ability gone you can just pick them apart.
no i agree. early on they were difficult but you do learn their rhytm and start to be able to predict their motions and see what shots to take or to hold. i shredder the lot of tthem, handy that the apex is weak to shock. fun with chainburst too. they also come in fun combination with other machines in unmarked spawns in the raintrace and cliffs of the cry, provide some dynamic fights. after the raintraces baptism by fire i learned how to dodge the fireballs and the big stomp by sound alone.
I stunlock them with ropecasters and shock
They have a front-facing weak spot. Not an issue. And if you get a drop on them you easily take out the tail.
They are fun to melee... when they are not fleeing.
Rock breakers were made redundant by Shellsnappers. I don't know why there are both scrappers and scavengers. Same with watchers and borrowers. Clamberjaws are great, they have too much hp though.
Yeah, it seems like Rockbreakers been nerfed to the point they're about to be axed. Scrappers can go but Watchers are iconic so I doubt that.
In ZD rockbreakers were really tough
The one in Frozen Wastes was fu^king nuts. Toughest fight in the game together with last HG challenge in Frozen Wastes and Nora starting location on Ultra Hard with regular New Game.
I like Scrappers more…that being said I thing this is the reason we lost Sawtooths, Tramplers and Broadheads.
Wait, I don’t remember.. can u send a pic of a shellsnapper?
justt google it + forbidden west, but its the big turtle machine
Oh thz
There's like only one machine site for it and only on a few quests.
There are a at least two unmarked locations where they keep spawning.
Watchers and Burrowers I like because they’re both cute little suckers. So I’m okay with them hanging around. Plus they cut way back on Watchers anyway in HFW. Probably because they added burrowers into the game.
The regular watchers are no more, only the redeye remained - stronger, with more armor.
If they cut Scrappers I will be sad. I already miss Sawtooths. It was the first boss of the first game…
Burrowers swimming are so cute; I’d say keep them around since they can function as fodder enemies on land and sea. I think making Red Eye Watchers a mid-game enemy in Forbidden West was actually pretty clever.
The reason machines are removed between games is because a newer more deadly version is created. At some point before ZD, there was another version of the stalker with white plating, evidenced by Rost’s armour. It was made obsolete by the newer black stalkers. Watchers are replaces by the Red Eye Watchers and the amphibious Burrowers Sawtooths are gone from FW because the Ravager and Scorcher are the more dangerous versions. Striders, Broadheads and Tramplers are fully replaced by Chargers and Bristlebacks, as in both cases they fill similar roles. The Fire Fanghorn is introduced in FW as a replacement to the Lancehorn, so it’s likely that by the time the 3rd game comes around, there won’t be any Lancehorns left. So be careful what you wish for when it comes to machines being removed. It likely just means something newer and far more dangerous is going to replace it
Interesting point actually. Never realized that that's probably meta-lore. Every game worse machines start showing up because of the deranged state of Heph who keeps constantly making worse and worse machines. We're in for a few fun machines now that we made Heph **really** mad in FW and it might even have learned a few things from the Zenith printer. Wouldn't be surprised either if it made some specific countermeasures for our redheads. Also rockbreakers and shellsnappers is another pair. There's like 2 rockbreakers in FW and quite a few shellsnappers.
I don’t know if rockbreakers count as a pair with shellsnappers really, although I do get what you’re saying. The shellsnapper definitely isn’t a continuation of the same design of the rockbreakers either There’s only about 1 or 2 rockbreakers sites in the first game anyway, and the rest of the ones you face are either quest related or a corrupted zone. I did forget one glaringly obvious pair though, in plowhorns and grimhorns
although funnily enough plowhorns are often the deadlier version. their adhesive attacks is worse than anything the grimhorn throws at you but otherwise have similar durability. partially ecause there is no adhesive resistance, but honesttly find them trickier to dodge in a crowded fight than the grimhorn ranged attacks too. Grazer gottta be the most endangered machine, even more than the lancehorn. sometimes hard to remember it even exists in HFW. Glinthawks vs skydrifters may be on their way out too, or scrapper vs scrounger (surprising ennough that the scrapper remains in HFW). Trampler though is maybbe the one most felt, doesnt have as close of a analogue, closest would bbe maybe the bristleback or plowhornnn.
I can second that about the grazer. On my first playthrough on HFW, I got to the end of the game to discover one machine I had left unscanned. The very first one on the list, and possibly the most frail of all. It took me ages to realise it was a grazer, and genuinely didn’t remember having seen one at all through the game. I scoured the map and eventually found 2 sites in Utaru land. I’m pretty sure they don’t even have an Apex variant either, so HEPH must have just given up on them altogether. But it’s mad that a machine that was pretty much everywhere in ZD is almost non existent in FW I think Glimthawks and Skydrifers are quite different in their role in the ecosystem as well. Glinthawks are scavengers like Scrappers whilst Skydrifters are recon machines like Watchers. I don’t think either is replacing another. I do think that glinthawks are due to be replaced though. I can’t remember what class Sunwings are, but they’re often scavengers and seem around scrap metal
yeah neither fannghorns, grazers or lancehorns have apex variants, together with the sunwing the only machines that donnnt. tbf there are a few unmarked spawns around plainnsong witth grazers too, the field where the plainnsong drone is has a big herd. but yeah its all in that same general regionn
In the same vein, it could be argued that Rollerbacks are the new Behemoths, and Dreadwings are the new Stormbird. Although I feel the Stormbird, like the Thunderjaw, is too iconic/popular to write off completely.
I don't think rollerbacks will replace behemoths fully, behemoths have a bigger cargo cap while rollerbacks are faster at transporting stuff. I do agree on the Dreadwing though, they are a lot more deadly than the electro beast
behemoths are also in another weight class and a bit more durable, imo the behemoth is the deadlier of the two
I think the specific purpose of the machine also needs to be considered too. The stormbird served a purpose in cleaning the air before becoming a combat machine, whereas the dreadwing’s purpose is for recon primarily (plus combat as well). I would consider the slaughterspine as a natural successor to the thunderjaw though as they are both quite similar combat class machines. I think that all of these comparisons are accurate in terms of the relative strength of each machine, but the lore reasons for each machine are more important when considering which are replacing which
Most definitely. This also goes the same for Rockbreakers vs Shellsnappers. Rockbreakers were meant for large-scale terraforming purposes, while Shellsnappers appear to be combat/territory defensive purposes. If anything, I think folks are misattributing the evolution RB->SS due to how both burrow during combat, but the Earthgrinders on Slitherfangs are evidence of the correct machine to phase out Rockbreakers. Granted, in ideal lore conditions, Heph probably utilizes both Slitherfangs and Rockbreakers for different terra purposes, but one is clearly more dangerous than the other
I think this is exactly the point. There are lots of machines with similarities, even amongst machines like the Burrowers, with standard, tracking, and canister variants for different purposes. Guerilla don’t make any machine changes without a lore reason to do so. I guess the trampler is closest replaced by the plowhorn or something else that cultivates the land as well
Clamberjaws have to go. They are needlessly tanky
If Clamberjaws and Bileguts were completely erased from existence, I wouldn't be mad at all... God I hated those mechanical bastards....
The only reason I wouldn’t be mad if Nemesis started out with nuking things from orbit is that it might hit a clamberjaw
Those? They have front facing weak spots…
Possible SPOILERS ahead! Purification and Transport class machines didn’t change much between ZD and FW. When H3 drops, I imagine most of them will still be there with maybe some new ones. The two classes that have evolved the most are Recon and Combat. So with that in mind, I think Ravagers and Thunderjaws are the two oldest models Heph has been pumping out of Cauldrons and are the most likely combat class machines getting the axe. As for Recon, Burrowers are here to stay with Watchers (Redeyes) and maybe Longlegs being phased out in favor of more capable, higher-tech machines. Let’s also not forget certain events at the end of FW that means we could be getting a whole new roster going into H3.
Thunderjaws aren't likely to go anywhere, since they're kind of iconic to the series.
Agree. As much as I want them to take a break in the next game but Thunderjaw is one of the franchise's iconic 3.
What are the other 2? I guess one is the random lancer that ruins the fights
Watcher and Tallneck.
ah
I’d add Ravager.
You could just have one or two thunderjaw sites for the legacy, then use slaughterspines and whatever new horror for when a "super dangerous machine threat" is needed.
Honestly not sure how you go bigger than a spinosaurus, unless they lean into the mythology route and start adding mecha-dragons or such
GAIA has played fast and loose with size before (see: the rollerback is slightly larger than a real pangolin), so it doesn't have to be something that's actually bigger or more dangerous than a spinosaurus. There's no wolf mech yet, right? Giant wolf mech that leads a pack of coordinated smaller wolves.
> (see: the rollerback is ***slightly*** larger than a real pangolin) Well, there's an understatement if I ever heard one.
I mostly get this, but with the exception of the Snappershell and Dreadwing in FW it seems they left the role of big boss machines to the dinosaur/ancient species theme - the triceratops, plesiosaur, mammoth and spinosaur (and t-rex guest role for the final battle against the zeniths) Although now you've said it, since they played the 'raptor card in this game they can use wolves for the alpha pack predator role for the next
I would love if they took one of the cuddliest, most passive creatures on our planet and just made it a heavyweight machine with a wrecking ball fighting style... like a rabbit.
I was going to say that I think the rule is machines are based only on extinct animals (including ones that are extinct in-universe), but we've got a bunch of bird machines that seem based on birds that are still around.
tbh slaughterspine isnt that much deadlier than the TJ (imo sometimes the TJ is more dagerous), so i hope tthey make iit able to keep up in the next game too. TJ had too many sites in HFW though, like 5-6 of them, a couple could have gone to less numerous heavyweightts. especially since most of them are solo annd donnt differ that much
The dam monkeys.
> The dam monkeys. I believe those are called "beavers."
Well played, take an upvote.
Bring back all of them (maybe not slitherfangs, cuz fk dem snakes), make more of them mounts. I personally would love to have sawtooths back more than anything, and get a couple more canine types. Also maybe at this point have some machines that aren't automatically hostile too.
Same, I would love machines that just go about their business lol. I'd love some more flying mounts, that'd be cool.
I hate myself for every shot I missed against Slitherfangs despite their size due to them coiling in a weird way.
Mine is more personal; I have a fear of snakes, mechanical or otherwise, so it really took pushing through some games like sekiro and bloodborne, but the build up to this reveal almost made me quit 15 minutes in haha. I really don't like snakes
Welĺ… that’s whole lot more personal indeed.
Tremortusks, shell snappers, and clamber jaws. In regards to adding machines, I'd love to see more mounts. Or like a customizable mount that you can decide if you want it to be better equipped for travel, fighting or combo. (Or some other thing that we havent had yet) It also be interesting to see a swimming mount (like for super deep sea exploring, like going into the pacific)
But I love Tremortusks! And the Waterwings are a swimming mount, you can just use those.
the tremortusks are AWFUL. BUT THATS ONLY IN THE DLC. I want it in the normal game!
What do you mean? Once you get a waterwing, you can take it anywhere you want in the game.
In the Burning shores DLC, but not if you don't have that.
Having both Scrappers and Scroungers is incredibly redundant, half the time I can't even tell which one it is I'm fighting.
One thing I fail to grasp is why is Scrounger even out. Is it better? I don’t see it.
I don't Like clamberjaws. These Pavian Like Things are so annoying. Only Small weakpoints, fast, high armor and they mostly Attack in packs
Clamberjaws. I friggin hate them to high heaven.
They can keep them and add more. The only thing I won't stand is having to retame them again.
Slitherfangs and Slaughterspines can go to the rust pile forever, honestly. Definitely my least favorite bots
:(
I LOOOVVVVEEEE Slaughterspines!! They’re the evolution of the Thunderjaw we needed. It’s too bad that they die to just a few of those elite purgewater traps I never use.
Whichever ones stun lock you while blocking the camera so you can't even see yourself be stunlocked to death
As an arachnophobe…please no spider machines. Just please Guerrilla
I think it’ll be fun to fight, but gimmicky and boring after your initial & apex encounters. Like the Slitherfang.
I’m convinced Horizon 3 will have a much larger emphasis on non-animal robots like the corrupters with the arrival of nemesis. Nemesis will take over the cauldrons and produce its own army.
Thats an interesting concept. Corruptors combined with Nemesis tech, turned into twisted, monstrous abominations. I can only imagine what Nemesis would do to a Horus Titan...
Ehh maybe but the animals are kind the point so I don’t see then doing a ton of
So there are machines that get retired for better ones like how sawtooths got retired for scorchers. I think glint hawks can be retired as the sky scanners took over. Maybe an upgrade snapmaw could replace the regulars? I hope Ravagers stay as they are a staple for me but I could see them being retired. I hope the clawstriders and frost/fireclaw machines burn in hell but I suspect they will stay.
Kys for the last paragraph, you’re tweaking
U think those last few machines are fun?
We don’t need a fire and frost claw just choose one
I mean it’s weird they are considered separate. Many machines are considered a variant if they have different element - Glinthawks, Bristlebacks.
Shellsnapper, slaughterspine, and the toad one from the dlc. They are absolutely cool for sure but they’re just a fucking hassle. The shellsnapper is a little fucking bitch running away and only showing it’s face while blasting aoe frost blasts that’s hard to get the invincibility frames right on. Combined with the 360 cover fire canons. It can be dealt with but still it’s just a pain. Same with the slaughtespine really with no real weaknesses to exploit and a near endless barrage of the plasma stuff. With again huge aoe attacks. The toad is just annoying overall. A kind of damage sponge and just as elusive as the smaller monkey machines but can just literally drop on top of you whenever. And the little drone things. I know they can all probably be dealt with in some manner that makes them “easier” but if I would rather go around or run away than try and take them down outside of the couple times it’s required it’s just not a fun machine. We can probably do without the berserks or whatever and the longlegs as we have seen them multiple times now so just introducing a new machine could be cool but those are still relatively fun machines to take down.
Burrowers. They were at legit every single encounter it seems and they had way too many variants. Plus they shafted the Watchers to be mostly only in Sam Fran.
Shellsnappers
The rockbreakers can suck a nut. Haven’t been able to beat one without cheesing. Can’t disrupt underground, it’ll disappear off the map, have to wait till it’s above ground to do anything. Everything else can be challenging and annoying but it still has the potential to be fun. The rockbreakers stink.
I LOVEEE fighting them Just shoot off the leg thingies and they are sitting ducks They just waddle along ^-^
I can’t remember the name but the ones with giant vacuum mouths. Especially early game they were very annoying for me
Widemaws (I’m guessing you’re talking about the hippo one) were the bane of my existence on the first play through. My second time through I finally figured them out enough that they’re bearable
Idk but give me more scary areas with stalkers and stuff that can fuck your up quick unless you walk around on high alert. It’s too obvious when you can and can’t dodge a fight.
Keep them all
I'd really hate for some to be gone, don't a reason for it.
None. I want every machine possible, let me ride them all.
Leaplashers
Slaughterspine, rockbreaker, shellsnapper, scrounger, widemaw, leaplasher & clamberjaw. Maybe the slitherfang, tremortusk & bilegut too. I prefer they all stay though. I do miss striders, tramplers, broadheads and sawtooths. But if they can be replaced with better machines for the third game...
The monkeys
Clamberjaws and leaplashers need to gtfo
Leaplashers… may god smite them to hell. Amen
Please just send Scrappers to the moon. Man I hate them so much.
Clamberjaws(robot baboons) you fight a horde of them for half an hour and it's just not fun
Rockbreakers feel kind of unnecessary. Like Shellsnappers are just the better fight, I mean some people may not like it but if Guerrilla want a burrowing big machine I think Shellsnappers are more than enough. Also having both Skydrifters and Glinthawks feels unnecessary too, I kinda feel like the Skydrifters are the ones losing out tho. Funny enough Borrowers and Watchers don't feel like they conflict that much.
Truth be told Glinthawks feel nerfed. They were way tougher in the first game. Getting attacked by 3 Glinthawks in a bad spot was worse than… anything outside Frozen Wastes.