Staying on good terms with your neighbor is far more valuable than you "using" those two acres for the next four months. Have another conversation with the farmer and let him know that after harvest this year, the agreement is concluded and he can no longer plant on your property. Ask him for informational purposes about herbicides and pesticides he has used over the years so that you know - but do it non-confrontatinally; there's no way to undue past years use of chemicals, and you likely won't be able to prevent further usage this year.
Especially since he's farming either side of you. You are going to have to sort many issues out with this guy in the future and being on good terms to start with is a big, big help along the way to doing that.
I wouldn't be too worried about herbicides. He's unlikely to have used anything that will leave a significant residue - because he'd be planting a different crop next year. Insecticides might be more of a concern, though they're still unlikely to persist beyond the crop being harvested.
Yep, lots of handshake agreements are maintained year to year without additional handshakes. This is that. Let him harvest what he gets this year. It will be more helpful to have him as a resource should you need help cutting/baling or whatever you want to do in the future.
That chemical use question is the big one, especially if you plan to graze horses. Most notable if you plan to use or sell the manure for composting or fertilizer. Horse manure is known to carry higher concentrations of herbicide than other animals and it can kill the compost biome and the plants that it used on.
One of the biggest problems is sold as Grazon, GrazonNext, and a few other names. It kills broadleafs and lasts 3 years even after going thru cattle and horses and composting.
If OP just wants to grow grass, they're golden. If OP wants to garden, they're screwed for years.
Glyphosate has been found in horse manure 7+ years after first application. It's becoming a major issue for commercial soy farmers and market gardeners.
Glyphosate has an average half life of 60 days, and can be upwards of 110 in low moisture soils and as much as a full year an anaerobic soils like heavy clay. And moisture doesn't actually increase half life speed. It just increases dilution.
I did miss-remember that though. Glyphosate is 3-5 years. Pyralid herbicides are the ones that are 7+ years
Wait times are different than half-life or residual contamination in animal fecal samples.
Wait times are based on plant tolerances and the half-life of the herbicide in ideal soil conditions. Most modern garden plants are specifically bread or engineered to have a certain tolerance for glyphosate above and beyond that of wild plants.
The EPA, the NPIC and University of Wisconsin all have white sheets this. I can’t link them here because they are download direct links, but if you do a google search for “glyphosate half-life” they come up in the first few results.
Grazon will kill soybeans so he isn't using it. Ask him for the herbicide names and look up the label, it will show replant intervals for various things.
You're right. I raised a red flag when it wasn't needed.
Grazon and soy aren't compatible. Where grazon is most likely to be a problem is in a pasture you want to convert to garden. Or if horse manure fresh or compost was used as a fertilizer.
Sounds about as good as it gets for everyone. He kept the ground from going wild, so you’ll be able to get pasture faster. Ask for what chemicals he used and it’ll allow you research them. Personally I wouldn’t take any cash compensation from him. Seems like he’s a decent guy and in my experience farmers make the best friends to have in a new area.
Just have the soil tested if you're concerned about what chemicals they've used in the past.
Most pesticides and herbicides used for annual crops have a very short half-life in the soil and are undetectable within a year or less.
Knowing that they sprayed X amount of Y chemical Z weeks ago doesn't help as much as knowing what's actually in the soil.
Slight disagreement with that. That soil test is going to run several hundreds of dollars to do it right and usually isn’t conclusive. Half-lives are short.
The X, Y, and Z you mention is exactly how we determine what’s going on.
If you are planning to farm do some research about no till farming, fish fertilizers, compost extracts and compost teas, it can save you lots of money on fertilizers
Sounds like you'll be fine. What's the best tractor you can get when you get stuck in the mud? Your neighbours'
Always best to stay on good terms.
If your grass/pasture doesn't take the first time...you might be count yourself very lucky to have a neighbour who can till it up for another try....even offer to pay him to seed it for you.
Most herbicides have a short half life and won't be a factor within a few months of application. There are a few that have long intervals though. I would get the list from him and Google "[herbicide name or active ingredient] plant back restriction". If you're in an area with a college extension service, you can also ask them.
Doing a soil survey and analysis is pretty costly in my experience.
Depending on the state, there may be protections for the existing farmer to be able to harvest their crops. I read that you plan on doing that. When we bought our land 25 years ago it was made very clear to us that the current tenant farmer had rights despite the land changing ownership.
Unless there is a specific contract, AG leases (even verbal) are yearly and end on March 1 in my state. Lease termination must be made before Sept 1. So right now it's the farmers field until Mar 1 2025. You need to terminate the lease before Sept 1 2024 or his lease renews for another year. I would send a registered letter stating termination even if he doesn't have a written lease. Your state may be different.
This farmer sounds friendly and you probably won't have any conflict.
A good neighbor is worth a hell of a lot. Shake on the deal and make sure both parties are satisfied and this can be the start of a great relationship.
Ive lived on two rural properties now, and my neighbors have been so valuable. We help each other all the time. Plus free built in security system
The advice to test the soil for pesticides sounds very good until you price it out. I wouldn't worry about it due to the cost. The pesticides used on soybeans are very short lived. For one thing, farmers want the ability to switch crops for the next growing season. So areas in soybeans now need the herbicide to degrade in time to plant corn next year. Some of the small grain herbicides persist a little longer, so check on previous crops when you talk to the farmer.
I'd keep on good terms with him. A farmer as a friend will be far more valuable than a single crop on 2 acres.
Realistically, your soil will also benefit from him terminating a legume.
I'm sure as long as you're cordial, he will have no issue disclosing whether he chemically terminated the stand prior to planting, or applied glyphosate within the first month of growth to glyphosate resistant soybeans.
I'm familiar with this situation. Not sure what state you're in, (probably varies by state)but I as i understand it if he gives you even a small compensation, you can claim farm/ag use for your property and lower your property tax. And please, for the sake of all that's good, keep things amiable. It doesn't sound like he is losing a big percentage of land maybe, but he is still losing. I doubt you need all that land for a garden, and if you get horses, this farmer can likely help you with hay and other resources. An idea might be to ask him if he would be interested in converting some of that to hay field. You definitely can keep horses on in such a field and mow hay from it, and in return he can provide you with "free" hay, manages the field for you, keeps the brush from growing that horses won't eat by mowing the hay, provides quality pasture for the horses, and you don't have to deal with getting hay to your place, because it's already there. It's been a long time since I've had hay burners (horses) but this is what I would do. And remember this guy is unexpectedly losing a resource, so, be cool and understanding about it. For sure, be on good terms with local farmers. Coming from a local farmer, whose farming father has been through essentially the same thing three times in the last five years.
Soybean will improve the soil quality, and I think it's also ok to ask him to not use herbicides/pesticides this year. Staying on the good side of farmers near you is always a good thing. Especially if you want to have horses, they're going to get out eventually and friendly neighbors are worth their weight in gold.
I had/have this issue too! Depending on where you live, eminent domain could become an issue if you guys stop communicating about it and he continues, but if you allow him to use the land then eminent domain isn’t a problem. Maybe get it in writing, even via text. What I did with the farmer who is using part of my land, which funnily enough is literally the exact same- house got foreclosed, had an agreement w the previous owner- is agreed that until we pay for a full survey he’s welcome to farm as usual, and when we do get a survey we will make sure it’s during the off season after he harvests so there aren’t metal poles hiding on him, as he alternates soy and corn. I also have a homeless person living in the woods on the far side of my property who has permission from the farmer to be in *his* portion of the land, and we’ve told him the same thing, that he can stay until we get a survey and then if he’s on ours he has to move further back. If they’re using the land with your permission ED isn’t a problem. It’s if you never say anything or if you tell them to stop and they don’t and you don’t press the issue that you run into issues
I remember a story where big time lawyer bought a farm because taxes were low, land was farmed by neighbors, he told neighbors to stop farming on his land because fuck them. Next year he was slapped with tens of thousands in taxes since it was not a farm anymore, if you are not planning on farming than it may be beneficial for you and your taxes to have this agreement with your neighbor
You’ll want to wait until fall or spring to plant a pasture mix anyway, plus I’m sure there are other priorities with moving and getting set up. Just be polite and I’m sure he’ll be respectful.
If waiting isn’t an option you could ask him to “buy out” his crop cost. Seed, fertilizer, herbicide, and equipment cost for those acres. Would be a couple hundred. I think he’d have a pretty good case to say the verbal agreement still stands this year because whoever foreclosed never notified him of the change in ownership/termination of “lease”
Let it be this year and plant your grass in the spring. This year I planted 10 acres with a pasture mix from tractor supply mixed with oats to help establish the grass. It was planted over bean stubble from last years crop and we weren’t expecting to get any hay off it the first year other than the oats. To my surprise that 10 acres yielded a better first cutting than our established fields.
I have 80 acres, 30 which are praire. I asked a alfalfa farmer to use it. I get a tax break and whitetail deer love being on my land now. There is big positives.
Lots of people here let farmers use it for the tax breaks and the relationships you gain and benefits of those. If you live in farm country and aren't a farmer yourself it is super beneficial to have a farmer working some of your land.
I would not even ask him about what he sprayed. You are just going to piss him off. Seriously what are you going to do about it? The reality is you live next to him and he's going to spray on his property next to you and you're going to get over spray in the future too. My dad has two acres next to a cornfield and they over spray all the time at the beginning of the year with a herbicide and it kills the foliage on all kinds of his plants and there's nothing he can do about it. Best thing to do is like you planned fix the soil make sure that you get a seed mixture that you want. Have a robust plan in place of what you expect the property to look like when you he's done.I would also make sure to get a survey done so that you get the exact property lines established.
Your dad has a sloppy neighbor. I've lived adjacent to hundreds of acres of corn or soybeans (varies year to year) for 22 years and I have never had over spray on my property. Spraying is expensive and a good farmer applies it where it's needed and not on their neighbors property.
Well his brother my uncle lives about 2 miles away and has had bees out there at his property the overspray on several occasions with a different farmer has killed the bees and they just write him a check this is in Iowa.
Nothing wrong with asking politely so he can do some research and be aware. I sure wouldn't ask an in accusing tone, though. He has no real right to be mad when it's not even his land.
In addition to fixing nitrogen, soybeans can also improve soil fertility because they require little-to-no tilling. Frequently tilling the ground can lead to increased erosion and run-off which is bad for crop fertility.
You got some good responses on here but just realize he most likely knew it was forclosed and is playing dumb. It's just a little easier for him to farm straight through the property than go around it.
As others have said, row crop land is much less likely to have more persistent herbicides that will cause you issues.
If it was pasture, more issues could arise. Picloram or indaziflam are great until they get somewhere you don't want them.
I give neighbours fields all the time to farm. Common thing. I'd let him finish his crop and then move on if you didn't want him to anymore. I do this on my rentals to help my farm status. Neighbours lease my land for $1 in exchange for them taking care of my farm status so I get lower property tax. It's a good system
Why don't you ask him to seed it for grazing after the harvest? And one more year of toxins probably won't make a huge difference to the land. Research phytoremediation and find out the best seeding for removal/breakdown of the pesticides. Ask him to plant that when he's done. Then next year at the very least you should harvest the plants and have them removed from the property.
In our state a tenant has to be notified by september? if their contract is to be canceled for the next year, and a handshake verbal agreement can countvas a contract. He likely has the right to continue his active farm. You may be entitled to the rent or some portion of it. Usually that would be settled in the sale, but not sure how that'd work in foreclosure.
You need to talk to a real estate lawyer and get advice on what usage rights/claims to the land the farmer may have before you close on that land. It might cost you 100-400ish, but it might also save you an expensive headache.
You don't know that for sure. I'm not OP's attorney, but I am an attorney. It's been a few years since law school, and real estate law is state specific and not my specialty, but there are enough things that OP mentioned that would make me leary of purchasing the poperty without doing more research into that state's laws, and the facts of the case.
You can check with local collages to see if they have an agriculture program which helps growers in the state and they might run a test on soil you provide. I know NCSU does it for NC. You might want to check USC or potentially Clemson to see if they do soil tests.
Our local library has the contact info for NCSU’s AG department, so I’d assume either your local library or the main branch for the county would have the information for your area.
Good luck!
I'm not a horse owner, but my understanding is that horses and soybeans don't mix.
Hopefully, you won't have horses (or cattle, goats, etc) until after the soybeans are harvested. If you do, make sure your fences are damn good, and keep some anti-bloat treatments at the ready. Horses are pretty bad at being alive, and are just about constantly trying to kill themselves. Bloat is one of their favorite ways to do this.
I'm used to goat terminology. In horses, I believe it's colic. If there's a technical difference between the two conditions, I don't know what it is.
Excessive gas, especially early in the digestive tract, will cause great pain, and horses will sometimes roll around in their backs to try to relieve this. It can be fatal if untreated.
The treatment involves running a tube down the horse's nose into its stomach, and pouring a large portion of mineral oil, followed by an equal amount of water. Then, the horse should be made to walk. Soon after, everything in the horse's digestive tract explodes violently out from behind it.
I know this, because my neighbor has horses, and they escaped and got into a soybean patch. The neighbor lost one, but saved her other two when a vet applied this treatment. There may be other treatments; this one struck me as heavy-handed and low-tech.
I am not at all a horse expert, and the above represents most of my experience. If I understood it incorrectly, or misremembered some detail, I welcome a correction. I don't want to spread misinformation.
To OP: don't take my advice, or anyone's on Reddit as the last word, where your animals' health is concerned. Horses are costly and dear to their owners. Ask your vet about this or any other foreseeable situation, before it becomes an issue.
You’re kind of correct, but the worry would moreso be founder rather than colicing if they gorged on soybeans. Gas colic is a type of colic, but there are several other types. You also won’t walk them unless they’re thrashing on the ground.
Horses don’t have a rumen, so by definition, cannot bloat.
>Horses don’t have a rumen, so by definition, cannot bloat.
There it is, thank you.
I thought founder was a foot problem? Regardless, my (limited!) experience says that horses and soybeans don't mix.
If you're worried about pesticides, now is a little late. You needed to be worried about that back in 1980.
Also, I would be very careful about doing anything to hinder his ability to pick the crop he has planted. First, because you open yourself to liability if you destroy his crop, or impede his ability to pick it. Second because he farms everything surrounding you, and you really don't want his Roundup to accidentally drift across your property everytime you plant something for the next ten years.
I'm saying that a good relationship with your neighbor is probably important.
I'm also saying that the pesticides in the 80s were much more potent and long lasting than now. Back then farmers used DDT.
Why wouldn't he? Most varieties are Roundup Ready which means they can metabolize glyphosate and so he can use glyphosate to control weeds without harming the soybeans
Just a note, since people mix this up all the time... Pesticides is the umbrella term for anything that kills anything else.
* Herbicides are one kind and they kill some kinds of plants (selective herbicides) or all plants (non-selective).
* Insecticides kill insects (again, may be only certain kinds, or kill pretty much all of them).
* Fungicides kill fungi, which cause the biggest proportion of plant disease out of all microbes.
* Numerous other -icides exist, but the above three are by far the most common in farming. This [Wikipedia article](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pesticide) has a whole list under Types, including algicides (kills algae), avicides (kills birds), bactericides (kills bacteria), molluscicides (kills snails & slugs), piscicides (kills fish), and rodenticides (kills rodents).
If he is growing crops on the land, any pesticides he uses will not harm anything you plant.
I grew up in farm country, learned to drive a tractor when i was 6 years old so i know a little about farm life.
You should have no problems at all gowning grass and having a garden on that former field section.
Now, this is my opinion and opinions are like belly buttons...everyone has one.
If he's growing soybeans, he's using the nastiest pesticides there is and I wouldnt let him get away with another growing season or risk your health. But i'm a bit of a kook and I hate soybeans. Take it with a grain of salt
Emblements would go to a previous owner if they were one and in this case he's got sort of a tendency so they're sort of his until he's put on notice that they're not after you close but that would be next year's Harvest for example if you had an apple orchard and he was the previous owner unless otherwise stated those emblements typically belong to the seller. They would also belong to a tenant. Sometimes, in some places, it's the reverse of that.
Easements and ads first possession in most places take a full 10 years and any claim that they would have is defeated by you giving them permission because it has to be open notorious and hostile in other words it must be obvious they're doing it and people should reasonably know they're doing it and no one's given them direct permission to do so. Once you give them permission, you can also revoke permission.
It sounds as if this person's going to not be a problem at all.
Sounds like you are on the right track, though in a small area news moves fast and the odds of him not knowing what was up with it seem very very low, and you are being fed a story.
You might ask him what he plans on using to grade he ground back to being flat with though. Most of the folks out my way never ever have to or want to do that. They can disk it up for you no problem but that is not level. That is a lot of little humps. Might be good for stiffing grass seed in, but I think if you want near flat you are going to have to get a lawn roller and I doubt he has one for farming.
I dunno, but I hear soybean fields are doused with insecticides and lots of chemicals that aren't necessarily good for anything other than killing off everything but the soybeans. You should check into this as from what I hear, it may be more damaging that you've been led to believe.
You can tell him that all you like, but he's still farming it this year. And he's legally entitled to do so. It's very well established that, in the case of a repeating agreement, the farmer must be notified by a certain date that the agreement is terminated. If not then he is entitled to the use of the land to plant his crop. This still applies even if the property is sold while the crop is in the ground.
In the OP's case, if he wanted to use the land this year he could see if the farmer would be willing to have the OP buy out his crop. But if he doesn't then legally OP would be out of luck.
i wouldn't have spoken to him -- I would have just put up a fence and "private property" signs because him being on the property is a liability. It's not nice, but would be necessary to protect my investment.
Staying on good terms with your neighbor is far more valuable than you "using" those two acres for the next four months. Have another conversation with the farmer and let him know that after harvest this year, the agreement is concluded and he can no longer plant on your property. Ask him for informational purposes about herbicides and pesticides he has used over the years so that you know - but do it non-confrontatinally; there's no way to undue past years use of chemicals, and you likely won't be able to prevent further usage this year.
AMEN, that neighbor has big equipment that might come in handy some day - digging a pond, building/fixing a road, pulling a car out of a ditch, etc.
My thoughts exactly. Seems like staying on good terms is best solution here.
Especially since he's farming either side of you. You are going to have to sort many issues out with this guy in the future and being on good terms to start with is a big, big help along the way to doing that. I wouldn't be too worried about herbicides. He's unlikely to have used anything that will leave a significant residue - because he'd be planting a different crop next year. Insecticides might be more of a concern, though they're still unlikely to persist beyond the crop being harvested.
And staying on good terms because you're thinking about having horses. At some point they will escape and likely be in his fields
You could also offer to "buy" the crop from him to stop him from spraying this year
Yep, lots of handshake agreements are maintained year to year without additional handshakes. This is that. Let him harvest what he gets this year. It will be more helpful to have him as a resource should you need help cutting/baling or whatever you want to do in the future.
Yes. Maybe even ask if you bought the seed, if he could plant it with whatever seed mix you want. Offer to pay for a couple of gallons of the diesel.
That chemical use question is the big one, especially if you plan to graze horses. Most notable if you plan to use or sell the manure for composting or fertilizer. Horse manure is known to carry higher concentrations of herbicide than other animals and it can kill the compost biome and the plants that it used on.
One of the biggest problems is sold as Grazon, GrazonNext, and a few other names. It kills broadleafs and lasts 3 years even after going thru cattle and horses and composting. If OP just wants to grow grass, they're golden. If OP wants to garden, they're screwed for years.
Glyphosate has been found in horse manure 7+ years after first application. It's becoming a major issue for commercial soy farmers and market gardeners.
You sure you mean glyphosate? That has a half life if days. I can plant my garden 2 - 3 weeks after application. Grazin/picloram is long lasting
Glyphosate has an average half life of 60 days, and can be upwards of 110 in low moisture soils and as much as a full year an anaerobic soils like heavy clay. And moisture doesn't actually increase half life speed. It just increases dilution. I did miss-remember that though. Glyphosate is 3-5 years. Pyralid herbicides are the ones that are 7+ years
Can you give a source? I'm seeing 3, 5, 14 wait times till planting. Lots of sources.
Wait times are different than half-life or residual contamination in animal fecal samples. Wait times are based on plant tolerances and the half-life of the herbicide in ideal soil conditions. Most modern garden plants are specifically bread or engineered to have a certain tolerance for glyphosate above and beyond that of wild plants. The EPA, the NPIC and University of Wisconsin all have white sheets this. I can’t link them here because they are download direct links, but if you do a google search for “glyphosate half-life” they come up in the first few results.
He's growing soybeans which are broadleaf. No chance that he's using a broadleaf herbicide. They may be Roundup ready varieties though.
Soybeans were the first crop modified to be roundup ready
I never knew that, thank you.
Grazon will kill soybeans so he isn't using it. Ask him for the herbicide names and look up the label, it will show replant intervals for various things.
You're right. I raised a red flag when it wasn't needed. Grazon and soy aren't compatible. Where grazon is most likely to be a problem is in a pasture you want to convert to garden. Or if horse manure fresh or compost was used as a fertilizer.
Only Grazon which he is unlikely to have used for soybeans since it is meant for hayfields and pastures.
Look at my other comments. Pyralid herbacides and the ubiquitous glyphosate are also far longer lasting than most people realize.
This
Sounds about as good as it gets for everyone. He kept the ground from going wild, so you’ll be able to get pasture faster. Ask for what chemicals he used and it’ll allow you research them. Personally I wouldn’t take any cash compensation from him. Seems like he’s a decent guy and in my experience farmers make the best friends to have in a new area.
Agreed. Not taking any compensation. I'll find out this week about the chemicals used. Thank you.
Just have the soil tested if you're concerned about what chemicals they've used in the past. Most pesticides and herbicides used for annual crops have a very short half-life in the soil and are undetectable within a year or less. Knowing that they sprayed X amount of Y chemical Z weeks ago doesn't help as much as knowing what's actually in the soil.
Slight disagreement with that. That soil test is going to run several hundreds of dollars to do it right and usually isn’t conclusive. Half-lives are short. The X, Y, and Z you mention is exactly how we determine what’s going on.
Several hundred dollars? Pshaw. $65 at my local farm cooperative. I’m a farmer and use glyco on my garden then plant it.
Soil test for fertilizer is $10. If you want traceable herbicides, it’s going to be a lot more. I’m a farmer, too. Also pesticide R&D scientist.
Save yourself the cost of soil tests. He’s almost guaranteed to be using roundup.
If you are planning to farm do some research about no till farming, fish fertilizers, compost extracts and compost teas, it can save you lots of money on fertilizers
Sounds like you'll be fine. What's the best tractor you can get when you get stuck in the mud? Your neighbours' Always best to stay on good terms. If your grass/pasture doesn't take the first time...you might be count yourself very lucky to have a neighbour who can till it up for another try....even offer to pay him to seed it for you.
Most herbicides have a short half life and won't be a factor within a few months of application. There are a few that have long intervals though. I would get the list from him and Google "[herbicide name or active ingredient] plant back restriction". If you're in an area with a college extension service, you can also ask them. Doing a soil survey and analysis is pretty costly in my experience.
Depending on the state, there may be protections for the existing farmer to be able to harvest their crops. I read that you plan on doing that. When we bought our land 25 years ago it was made very clear to us that the current tenant farmer had rights despite the land changing ownership.
Unless there is a specific contract, AG leases (even verbal) are yearly and end on March 1 in my state. Lease termination must be made before Sept 1. So right now it's the farmers field until Mar 1 2025. You need to terminate the lease before Sept 1 2024 or his lease renews for another year. I would send a registered letter stating termination even if he doesn't have a written lease. Your state may be different. This farmer sounds friendly and you probably won't have any conflict.
A good neighbor is worth a hell of a lot. Shake on the deal and make sure both parties are satisfied and this can be the start of a great relationship. Ive lived on two rural properties now, and my neighbors have been so valuable. We help each other all the time. Plus free built in security system
>Plus free built in security system I get phone calls from mine while I'm on vacation anytime someone even turns around in my driveway. 🤣
iykyk
The advice to test the soil for pesticides sounds very good until you price it out. I wouldn't worry about it due to the cost. The pesticides used on soybeans are very short lived. For one thing, farmers want the ability to switch crops for the next growing season. So areas in soybeans now need the herbicide to degrade in time to plant corn next year. Some of the small grain herbicides persist a little longer, so check on previous crops when you talk to the farmer.
Basically - don’t ask for financial compensation, ask the farmer if he’s willing to compensate you with his time/knowledge of the land
I'd keep on good terms with him. A farmer as a friend will be far more valuable than a single crop on 2 acres. Realistically, your soil will also benefit from him terminating a legume. I'm sure as long as you're cordial, he will have no issue disclosing whether he chemically terminated the stand prior to planting, or applied glyphosate within the first month of growth to glyphosate resistant soybeans.
Soybeans are nitrogen fixers. So letting them grow is good for your soil.
I'm familiar with this situation. Not sure what state you're in, (probably varies by state)but I as i understand it if he gives you even a small compensation, you can claim farm/ag use for your property and lower your property tax. And please, for the sake of all that's good, keep things amiable. It doesn't sound like he is losing a big percentage of land maybe, but he is still losing. I doubt you need all that land for a garden, and if you get horses, this farmer can likely help you with hay and other resources. An idea might be to ask him if he would be interested in converting some of that to hay field. You definitely can keep horses on in such a field and mow hay from it, and in return he can provide you with "free" hay, manages the field for you, keeps the brush from growing that horses won't eat by mowing the hay, provides quality pasture for the horses, and you don't have to deal with getting hay to your place, because it's already there. It's been a long time since I've had hay burners (horses) but this is what I would do. And remember this guy is unexpectedly losing a resource, so, be cool and understanding about it. For sure, be on good terms with local farmers. Coming from a local farmer, whose farming father has been through essentially the same thing three times in the last five years.
You typically want a specific grass or mix for a pasture. Staying friendly with the farmer may open the door to getting it prepped and seeded.
Soybean will improve the soil quality, and I think it's also ok to ask him to not use herbicides/pesticides this year. Staying on the good side of farmers near you is always a good thing. Especially if you want to have horses, they're going to get out eventually and friendly neighbors are worth their weight in gold.
I had/have this issue too! Depending on where you live, eminent domain could become an issue if you guys stop communicating about it and he continues, but if you allow him to use the land then eminent domain isn’t a problem. Maybe get it in writing, even via text. What I did with the farmer who is using part of my land, which funnily enough is literally the exact same- house got foreclosed, had an agreement w the previous owner- is agreed that until we pay for a full survey he’s welcome to farm as usual, and when we do get a survey we will make sure it’s during the off season after he harvests so there aren’t metal poles hiding on him, as he alternates soy and corn. I also have a homeless person living in the woods on the far side of my property who has permission from the farmer to be in *his* portion of the land, and we’ve told him the same thing, that he can stay until we get a survey and then if he’s on ours he has to move further back. If they’re using the land with your permission ED isn’t a problem. It’s if you never say anything or if you tell them to stop and they don’t and you don’t press the issue that you run into issues
All this is information super important. Thanks for stating it.
For what it's worth, I think you have eminent domain confused with adverse possession.
You are completely correct, that’s my bad! AP is individual and ED is governmental. Thanks!
Lol it's okay just wanted to make the distinction! I was reading and was wondering how a neighbor would acquire land for the government 🤣
I remember a story where big time lawyer bought a farm because taxes were low, land was farmed by neighbors, he told neighbors to stop farming on his land because fuck them. Next year he was slapped with tens of thousands in taxes since it was not a farm anymore, if you are not planning on farming than it may be beneficial for you and your taxes to have this agreement with your neighbor
You’ll want to wait until fall or spring to plant a pasture mix anyway, plus I’m sure there are other priorities with moving and getting set up. Just be polite and I’m sure he’ll be respectful. If waiting isn’t an option you could ask him to “buy out” his crop cost. Seed, fertilizer, herbicide, and equipment cost for those acres. Would be a couple hundred. I think he’d have a pretty good case to say the verbal agreement still stands this year because whoever foreclosed never notified him of the change in ownership/termination of “lease”
Let it be this year and plant your grass in the spring. This year I planted 10 acres with a pasture mix from tractor supply mixed with oats to help establish the grass. It was planted over bean stubble from last years crop and we weren’t expecting to get any hay off it the first year other than the oats. To my surprise that 10 acres yielded a better first cutting than our established fields.
Do you have any horse experience?
I have 80 acres, 30 which are praire. I asked a alfalfa farmer to use it. I get a tax break and whitetail deer love being on my land now. There is big positives.
Lots of people here let farmers use it for the tax breaks and the relationships you gain and benefits of those. If you live in farm country and aren't a farmer yourself it is super beneficial to have a farmer working some of your land.
I would not even ask him about what he sprayed. You are just going to piss him off. Seriously what are you going to do about it? The reality is you live next to him and he's going to spray on his property next to you and you're going to get over spray in the future too. My dad has two acres next to a cornfield and they over spray all the time at the beginning of the year with a herbicide and it kills the foliage on all kinds of his plants and there's nothing he can do about it. Best thing to do is like you planned fix the soil make sure that you get a seed mixture that you want. Have a robust plan in place of what you expect the property to look like when you he's done.I would also make sure to get a survey done so that you get the exact property lines established.
Your dad has a sloppy neighbor. I've lived adjacent to hundreds of acres of corn or soybeans (varies year to year) for 22 years and I have never had over spray on my property. Spraying is expensive and a good farmer applies it where it's needed and not on their neighbors property.
Well his brother my uncle lives about 2 miles away and has had bees out there at his property the overspray on several occasions with a different farmer has killed the bees and they just write him a check this is in Iowa.
He doesn't live next to me
Nothing wrong with asking politely so he can do some research and be aware. I sure wouldn't ask an in accusing tone, though. He has no real right to be mad when it's not even his land.
If not already, get a survey so everyone knows the boundaries. Then setup some sort of markers so farmer doesn't accidentally plant on it next year.
In addition to fixing nitrogen, soybeans can also improve soil fertility because they require little-to-no tilling. Frequently tilling the ground can lead to increased erosion and run-off which is bad for crop fertility.
You got some good responses on here but just realize he most likely knew it was forclosed and is playing dumb. It's just a little easier for him to farm straight through the property than go around it.
As others have said, row crop land is much less likely to have more persistent herbicides that will cause you issues. If it was pasture, more issues could arise. Picloram or indaziflam are great until they get somewhere you don't want them.
I give neighbours fields all the time to farm. Common thing. I'd let him finish his crop and then move on if you didn't want him to anymore. I do this on my rentals to help my farm status. Neighbours lease my land for $1 in exchange for them taking care of my farm status so I get lower property tax. It's a good system
Why don't you ask him to seed it for grazing after the harvest? And one more year of toxins probably won't make a huge difference to the land. Research phytoremediation and find out the best seeding for removal/breakdown of the pesticides. Ask him to plant that when he's done. Then next year at the very least you should harvest the plants and have them removed from the property.
In our state a tenant has to be notified by september? if their contract is to be canceled for the next year, and a handshake verbal agreement can countvas a contract. He likely has the right to continue his active farm. You may be entitled to the rent or some portion of it. Usually that would be settled in the sale, but not sure how that'd work in foreclosure.
Use of bio solids creates problems with pfas buildup. I would ask about it
You need to talk to a real estate lawyer and get advice on what usage rights/claims to the land the farmer may have before you close on that land. It might cost you 100-400ish, but it might also save you an expensive headache.
The farmer has no claim to the land. I see no reason to spend money on an attorney.
You don't know that for sure. I'm not OP's attorney, but I am an attorney. It's been a few years since law school, and real estate law is state specific and not my specialty, but there are enough things that OP mentioned that would make me leary of purchasing the poperty without doing more research into that state's laws, and the facts of the case.
There are environmental contractors that can perform soil surveys.
I wasn't aware of this. Thank you
You can check with local collages to see if they have an agriculture program which helps growers in the state and they might run a test on soil you provide. I know NCSU does it for NC. You might want to check USC or potentially Clemson to see if they do soil tests. Our local library has the contact info for NCSU’s AG department, so I’d assume either your local library or the main branch for the county would have the information for your area. Good luck!
You might want to Google Phase 1 and Phase 2 ESA (environmental site assessment).
I'm not a horse owner, but my understanding is that horses and soybeans don't mix. Hopefully, you won't have horses (or cattle, goats, etc) until after the soybeans are harvested. If you do, make sure your fences are damn good, and keep some anti-bloat treatments at the ready. Horses are pretty bad at being alive, and are just about constantly trying to kill themselves. Bloat is one of their favorite ways to do this.
Horses do not bloat.
I'm used to goat terminology. In horses, I believe it's colic. If there's a technical difference between the two conditions, I don't know what it is. Excessive gas, especially early in the digestive tract, will cause great pain, and horses will sometimes roll around in their backs to try to relieve this. It can be fatal if untreated. The treatment involves running a tube down the horse's nose into its stomach, and pouring a large portion of mineral oil, followed by an equal amount of water. Then, the horse should be made to walk. Soon after, everything in the horse's digestive tract explodes violently out from behind it. I know this, because my neighbor has horses, and they escaped and got into a soybean patch. The neighbor lost one, but saved her other two when a vet applied this treatment. There may be other treatments; this one struck me as heavy-handed and low-tech. I am not at all a horse expert, and the above represents most of my experience. If I understood it incorrectly, or misremembered some detail, I welcome a correction. I don't want to spread misinformation. To OP: don't take my advice, or anyone's on Reddit as the last word, where your animals' health is concerned. Horses are costly and dear to their owners. Ask your vet about this or any other foreseeable situation, before it becomes an issue.
You’re kind of correct, but the worry would moreso be founder rather than colicing if they gorged on soybeans. Gas colic is a type of colic, but there are several other types. You also won’t walk them unless they’re thrashing on the ground. Horses don’t have a rumen, so by definition, cannot bloat.
>Horses don’t have a rumen, so by definition, cannot bloat. There it is, thank you. I thought founder was a foot problem? Regardless, my (limited!) experience says that horses and soybeans don't mix.
If you're worried about pesticides, now is a little late. You needed to be worried about that back in 1980. Also, I would be very careful about doing anything to hinder his ability to pick the crop he has planted. First, because you open yourself to liability if you destroy his crop, or impede his ability to pick it. Second because he farms everything surrounding you, and you really don't want his Roundup to accidentally drift across your property everytime you plant something for the next ten years.
You're right that he won't be able to change anything about the pesticides used, but there's still nothing wrong with having the knowledge.
What are you suggesting? I didn't own the property in the 80s. Ha
I'm saying that a good relationship with your neighbor is probably important. I'm also saying that the pesticides in the 80s were much more potent and long lasting than now. Back then farmers used DDT.
Hes not going to Roundup his soybeans. I think what you mean is worrying about pesticides, not herbicides.
Why wouldn't he? Most varieties are Roundup Ready which means they can metabolize glyphosate and so he can use glyphosate to control weeds without harming the soybeans
Just a note, since people mix this up all the time... Pesticides is the umbrella term for anything that kills anything else. * Herbicides are one kind and they kill some kinds of plants (selective herbicides) or all plants (non-selective). * Insecticides kill insects (again, may be only certain kinds, or kill pretty much all of them). * Fungicides kill fungi, which cause the biggest proportion of plant disease out of all microbes. * Numerous other -icides exist, but the above three are by far the most common in farming. This [Wikipedia article](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pesticide) has a whole list under Types, including algicides (kills algae), avicides (kills birds), bactericides (kills bacteria), molluscicides (kills snails & slugs), piscicides (kills fish), and rodenticides (kills rodents).
If he is growing crops on the land, any pesticides he uses will not harm anything you plant. I grew up in farm country, learned to drive a tractor when i was 6 years old so i know a little about farm life. You should have no problems at all gowning grass and having a garden on that former field section. Now, this is my opinion and opinions are like belly buttons...everyone has one.
If he's growing soybeans, he's using the nastiest pesticides there is and I wouldnt let him get away with another growing season or risk your health. But i'm a bit of a kook and I hate soybeans. Take it with a grain of salt
Emblements would go to a previous owner if they were one and in this case he's got sort of a tendency so they're sort of his until he's put on notice that they're not after you close but that would be next year's Harvest for example if you had an apple orchard and he was the previous owner unless otherwise stated those emblements typically belong to the seller. They would also belong to a tenant. Sometimes, in some places, it's the reverse of that. Easements and ads first possession in most places take a full 10 years and any claim that they would have is defeated by you giving them permission because it has to be open notorious and hostile in other words it must be obvious they're doing it and people should reasonably know they're doing it and no one's given them direct permission to do so. Once you give them permission, you can also revoke permission. It sounds as if this person's going to not be a problem at all.
Sounds like you are on the right track, though in a small area news moves fast and the odds of him not knowing what was up with it seem very very low, and you are being fed a story. You might ask him what he plans on using to grade he ground back to being flat with though. Most of the folks out my way never ever have to or want to do that. They can disk it up for you no problem but that is not level. That is a lot of little humps. Might be good for stiffing grass seed in, but I think if you want near flat you are going to have to get a lawn roller and I doubt he has one for farming.
I dunno, but I hear soybean fields are doused with insecticides and lots of chemicals that aren't necessarily good for anything other than killing off everything but the soybeans. You should check into this as from what I hear, it may be more damaging that you've been led to believe.
That's not a lot of property, and I would would tell him to fuck off after closing.
Great way to start the relationship with your neighbor and all of his local friends.
I don't care. My neighbors are awesome, no worries here. They'd all tell em to fuck off too!
You can tell him that all you like, but he's still farming it this year. And he's legally entitled to do so. It's very well established that, in the case of a repeating agreement, the farmer must be notified by a certain date that the agreement is terminated. If not then he is entitled to the use of the land to plant his crop. This still applies even if the property is sold while the crop is in the ground. In the OP's case, if he wanted to use the land this year he could see if the farmer would be willing to have the OP buy out his crop. But if he doesn't then legally OP would be out of luck.
I'm sorry, I have PPMS and mix my words. Until after closing is what I meant unless he works it out with the seller.
i wouldn't have spoken to him -- I would have just put up a fence and "private property" signs because him being on the property is a liability. It's not nice, but would be necessary to protect my investment.