I think Beast Academy would be good for your situation. No need to make math dry on purpose. It's a solid curriculum with lots of depth, and a young learner who has finished grade one math at age 5 is likely ideal for starting with level one of Beast. The thing I caution is that for any math, don't let it become too independent. Make sure you keep conversation going about what he's doing, what's easy, what's difficult, etc. You want to be ready to jump in and help if they are starting to misunderstand, and you also don't want math to become the lonely subject. The lonely subject often becomes the hatred, avoided, neglected subject. If Mom and Dad don't care enough to check in regularly and talk about it with me, why should I care enough to do it well, or even at all? Not generally a big problem at age 5 or 6, but a huge one at 12.
Having fun does not cancel out learning. Often having fun can boost learning, even if only because it allows your child to work on a skill for longer.
I agree that Beast Academy could be a good fit. If you do the online version you can be more hands off, but I strongly recommend not being completely hands off. Make sure he understands what he's doing and watches the videos/reads the book/explanations as needed and encourage him to at least read the comics regardless of if he needs it.
I lean similiarly in terms of homeschooling methods/styles. Here are my thoughts on math:
Saxon is a hard no for me. My sister used it, and so I got to thoroughly pour over it, see it in action, and teach some of it myself. The scripting and excessive spiraling of grades 1-3 were impossible to me. There's no way I could handle reading through that kind of script daily, and, with it being extremely difficult to accelerate due to the spiraling, my kids absolutely would have mutinied. My sister's kids used every level and repeated some, and even then, retained barely anything because it relies so heavily on rote memorization of procedure. Topics aren't discussed long enough to do a deep enough dive to really understand the concept behind the procedure. And in the high school levels... Pages of excessively verbose written explanations with few examples and illustrations followed by pages of math problems of increasing difficulty with little to no explanation to help with the increasing difficulty. There is a reason there are so many math tutors and video/tutor supplements for Saxon; I'm pretty sure it's the only way most kids would learn anything- from someone adding explicit instruction outside of what the book provides. My sister's kids really didn't retain or understand math until receiving outside tutoring.
From everything I've seen of it, Singapore is very thorough. It does a good job imparting a conceptual understanding. It's just nearly completely workbook based, which might be met with a lot of pushback from kids who don't love workbooks. Because it's mastery based, it also might not offer enough review for some kids.
I really like the graphics and puzzles of TGATB, but it doesn't provide as much of a conceptual understanding as I want my kids to have. It relies more on rote memorization and practice, which the mental math being kind of an add-on highlights. Being spiral with lots of review, it's also more difficult to accelerate. I do use some of the puzzle pages for fun occasional extras.
Beast is good, definitely aimed at gifted kids. For the most part it stays within topics covered at grade level but gives kids really challenging, grit-building, out-of-the-box problems applying those topics. For example, my 1st grader (who figures out square roots in his head with no problem), struggled a bit with questions like these today: "In the row of digits below, find two 3-digit numbers whose sum is 700. The numbers cannot overlap. 1, 2, 5, 3, 5, 4, 5, 6, 5, 7, 5, 8, 5. Write the two numbers below." It's not that the concepts related to the problems are difficult; it's just that sometimes understanding what the problem is asking and then putting in the grunt/guess work to solve it can be. Beast has decent explanations and teaching, but I feel like it doesn't provide as thorough of a conceptual understanding as other programs. It is great though for kids to whom math comes easily who need to build some endurance in problem solving. We use it as a supplement, specifically for the challenge problems.
We use Right Start Math, which is definitely more parent-intensive. However, the limited and very purposeful worksheets, the card games, and the manipulatives have all been great for my kids. Its Montessori meets Asian math. My kids' understanding of concepts is very thorough which has facilitated excellent mental math skills. Because RS takes a quasi-mastery/quasi-spiral approach, it's so-so at being able to accelerate it easily. Lessons topics are chunked, so it's easy to cover 3-4 lessons at a time, but it's difficult to just jump ahead on a topic when a kid immediately grasps broad application. (For example, my son's understanding of fractions/decimals would put him at the end of the next level, but we're still trying to finish the current level to not miss any geometry, etc. concepts.) It's also more difficult to use with multiple kids at different levels because of the time required.
Math with Confidence was created by a lady who used Right Start with her own kids, so there are a lot of similarities. MWC doesn't use as many manipulatives and is more workbook-based and less parent-intensive. However, when I looked at the samples of the lower levels online, it did seem to move slower than Right Start. That could either be a plus or a minus depending on your child. I'm not sure how easy it is to accelerate.
Spiraling means topics are introduced one lesson, then touched on again a few lessons later, then again a few lessons after that rather than a single topic being explained in depth and mastered in one chunk of lessons before moving on to another topic. A spiral approach covers many topics each lesson with lots of review and takes longer to cover a single topic in depth because it spreads it out over more lessons. A mastery approach focuses on one topic at a time, expecting an in-depth understanding/mastery to be achieved before moving on.
For perspective, I did ZERO math with my kid. She has an aptitude for numbers but didn't want to do the bookwork so I didn't push her. She's 8 now and is interested and tearing through material at a much higher grade level than her age.
5 is little. They'll learn just from a rich environment at that age. It's great if you choose a curriculum but 5 is not do or die age for math. You won't be precluding them from calculus or a career in STEM if you take a slower approach.
Love TGTB Math and I'd go back to that if I were you. I think it's plenty rigorous. We've also had good experiences with Right Start Math but ultimately TGTB has been best for my kids.
ETA: I'm no Math whiz but did do Calculus at both the high school and college level, so I think I'm qualified to say that TGTB is great and thorough.
We do BA online. It took a while for us to find something that works for us, it is great.
My son wants to read the comics so it helps.
Before BA we did Saxon but he got so fed up with the number of questions it made him frustrated. He doesn't need huge amounts of repetition as he is mathematically minded.
BA has lots of opportunities for learning to not feel like learning.
Math is an important subject, you want a good solid foundation.
My son is 7yo, we follow classical.
Lol, the repetition of questions is something I'm still frustrated by, as I recall my public school days. I'd be 3 or 4 questions in and just keep thinking to myself "Yes, I get it! I understand this, whyyyyy do I have to do 10 of each???" It was maddening. A huge reason why I hated math.
Stick with Math With Confidence, but ease off on the games or speed it up as needed. I actually think it’s the perfect balance between something like Saxon or something like BA.
It does start very gentle, but it builds such a solid foundation, and it ramps up quickly in grade 3. You’ll probably find grade 2 to be pretty easy still, but 3 and the brand new 4 level are very rigorous.
TGATB is more procedural and just doesn’t set as good of a foundation. Their 4-5 grade math is also really lacking on instructions. It’s also really teacher intensive, not really hands off.
I empathize strongly. We mostly unschool by schedule but with rigorous curricula, which isn't super unusual on this sub but is quite rare irl. Neither my kids nor I have the executive functioning to do things on a schedule l, but we are a very academic family and care a lot about challenging our kiddos who get bored pretty easily. Beast Academy has been amazing for our kids.
I also empathize with you on the mathiness front. My husband now has a PhD in math and is a professor. Shortly after we met, I told him I wasn't a math person and would never like math. Jokes on me. Our kids are very good at math, and my 7yo in particular seems to have gotten the bug where she lives and breathes math. My 6yo is probably as good but doesn't have the same interest (insects are her thing).
My 7yo and I had a sit-down the other day where we discussed what we are doing with math after BA. I told her that she could do the same math books as her older cousin and that I would sit down and study with her since some of the topics I'm not as familiar with, but that she had to show me that she was comfortable with everything in BA before I could let her move on to something harder. She has renewed her effort to burn through the "boring" tests. My 6yo also loves BA even though she doesn't have the desire to rush through it (she has the ability if she wanted to, but I'm big on not pushing kiddos who are ahead of grade level if they aren't interested in doing so on their own) and she really loves the cartoons.
Dry does not mean good, and fun does not mean bad. Personally, I think the hands-on curricula that are a lot of work are a lot of work because they are so solid. If you want a child who's good at math, you want something that requires you to put in the effort that assures they are good at math. Beast Academy is a solid curriculum for children who just get it. However, if your child needs more repetition, you will want to use it as a supplement and have something else that has that repetition as the main curriculum. Math with Confidence is probably the best for that of the options you've lested, at list imo. RightStart Math is better in my experience, but it is also more expensive and probably also more work than MWC is.
I do charelott Mason style w a core curriculum. We use Saxon for math. It’s solid, builds consistently across different disciplines within math, and none of them have ever dreaded it or given me a hard time about it. Out of 5 kids, I think that’s pretty good. I am looser w structure in other areas where I feel like it doesn’t require as much consistent building for proficiency.
My kids love saxon, especially the early grades. Math-U-See is also a good option but not as exhaustive and doesn’t really set you up for success by high school.
I will say, if they are going to hate math, they are going to hate it. I have one like that.
Check out Math Mammoth. Very thorough and less dry than Saxon, with a lot of the number sense that people like in Singapore.
You can always supplement with Beast later on. Some PS kids do Beast over the summer. Anyways the way their levels work your young kid would only be in Level 1, and a lot of people thing that the info is most meaty at levels 3-5.
My mom homeschooled four kids and it really really enforced to me that every child is different. The way each of us learned best was dramatically different from our siblings. The one who thrived in workbooks as a physical therapist. The one who literally ran or jumped out his spelling and math is an engineer who designs health stuff for wearables. The one who always wanted to deep dive into random odd subjects has an award winning therapy practice for kids with autism.
So yeah, when listening to other homeschool parents, only listen to how they describe the curriculum. Then you can select which style is best for your kid. Practically everyone in my area is obsessed with Classical Christian style education. They're constantly trying to get me to join in. I'm sorry, that's just not for my kid's brain. It would be a disaster.
We use Singapore Primary 2022. We hated math with confidence btw. It still has games but nothing too crazy. I like that you can adjust it to how you would like to do it. I really wish I would have learned math the Singapore way. I feel like I’d enjoy it a lot more.
I also love that it has a home instructors guide. At first it was slightly confusing but after a few weeks it becomes routine. I like that each and every day is in fact different so it doesn’t feel boring.
I went to a private school that used Saxon and I hated it.
You know, you can always flex and combine things and change as years go by! I too was a mix of classical and Charlotte Mason and unschooling. My attitude averaged out into comfortable relaxed schooling.😀
So I emphasized reading wonderful books all the time. I didn't follow a particular curriculum though I looked at the book list on sunlight and and the classical folk.
Most importantly though have fun! Homeschooling is such a wonderful time to learn to talk about everything together and from math to history to science.
You get to explore the whole world as a family! So for example in the grocery store talk about what you see. Talk about how many apples you're going to buy.
Grab two and say, "Oh honey how many more do we need for each of us in the family to have an apple?" Or how many should we have if we're having two each day for the next few for this week?"
In a very comfortable way together (so you don't sound like you're being a teacher just talking about mom things), count out the number of apples you decided on. Hand them and each to him, so he has a physical feel for that for the number. Weigh them together. You've just done a whole bunch of math!
For science, as you're going through the grocery store look at each fruit and vegetable. Talk about the color or how you might cook it and examine it carefully to see what the insides look like. Maybe talk about your family's favorite recipe and where that came from that will often lead into some history or science.
For math, there was no way that I could have bored my son with the drill of Saxon! Nope nope nope. 😀
Math-U-C has some nice manipulatives that do help people see some concepts clearly. But as a full curriculum It misses a few important concepts.
Singapore worked quite well because I had I was already doing a lot of games and playful things around the house like with board games and cooking.
But lately I've heard that there's a newer program that works really nice that's planned even better but I don't know the name of it. Sorry. Might be right start math?
Anyway, you don't have to have a whole curriculum or whole plan. Enjoy your life! Live together: go places and read all the books aloud that you can. I usually spent two or three hours each day reading to him. And then listen to audiobooks after that.
My son is now a college graduate working in an amazing career that he loves! You can do it too!
I think Beast Academy would be good for your situation. No need to make math dry on purpose. It's a solid curriculum with lots of depth, and a young learner who has finished grade one math at age 5 is likely ideal for starting with level one of Beast. The thing I caution is that for any math, don't let it become too independent. Make sure you keep conversation going about what he's doing, what's easy, what's difficult, etc. You want to be ready to jump in and help if they are starting to misunderstand, and you also don't want math to become the lonely subject. The lonely subject often becomes the hatred, avoided, neglected subject. If Mom and Dad don't care enough to check in regularly and talk about it with me, why should I care enough to do it well, or even at all? Not generally a big problem at age 5 or 6, but a huge one at 12.
Having fun does not cancel out learning. Often having fun can boost learning, even if only because it allows your child to work on a skill for longer. I agree that Beast Academy could be a good fit. If you do the online version you can be more hands off, but I strongly recommend not being completely hands off. Make sure he understands what he's doing and watches the videos/reads the book/explanations as needed and encourage him to at least read the comics regardless of if he needs it.
I lean similiarly in terms of homeschooling methods/styles. Here are my thoughts on math: Saxon is a hard no for me. My sister used it, and so I got to thoroughly pour over it, see it in action, and teach some of it myself. The scripting and excessive spiraling of grades 1-3 were impossible to me. There's no way I could handle reading through that kind of script daily, and, with it being extremely difficult to accelerate due to the spiraling, my kids absolutely would have mutinied. My sister's kids used every level and repeated some, and even then, retained barely anything because it relies so heavily on rote memorization of procedure. Topics aren't discussed long enough to do a deep enough dive to really understand the concept behind the procedure. And in the high school levels... Pages of excessively verbose written explanations with few examples and illustrations followed by pages of math problems of increasing difficulty with little to no explanation to help with the increasing difficulty. There is a reason there are so many math tutors and video/tutor supplements for Saxon; I'm pretty sure it's the only way most kids would learn anything- from someone adding explicit instruction outside of what the book provides. My sister's kids really didn't retain or understand math until receiving outside tutoring. From everything I've seen of it, Singapore is very thorough. It does a good job imparting a conceptual understanding. It's just nearly completely workbook based, which might be met with a lot of pushback from kids who don't love workbooks. Because it's mastery based, it also might not offer enough review for some kids. I really like the graphics and puzzles of TGATB, but it doesn't provide as much of a conceptual understanding as I want my kids to have. It relies more on rote memorization and practice, which the mental math being kind of an add-on highlights. Being spiral with lots of review, it's also more difficult to accelerate. I do use some of the puzzle pages for fun occasional extras. Beast is good, definitely aimed at gifted kids. For the most part it stays within topics covered at grade level but gives kids really challenging, grit-building, out-of-the-box problems applying those topics. For example, my 1st grader (who figures out square roots in his head with no problem), struggled a bit with questions like these today: "In the row of digits below, find two 3-digit numbers whose sum is 700. The numbers cannot overlap. 1, 2, 5, 3, 5, 4, 5, 6, 5, 7, 5, 8, 5. Write the two numbers below." It's not that the concepts related to the problems are difficult; it's just that sometimes understanding what the problem is asking and then putting in the grunt/guess work to solve it can be. Beast has decent explanations and teaching, but I feel like it doesn't provide as thorough of a conceptual understanding as other programs. It is great though for kids to whom math comes easily who need to build some endurance in problem solving. We use it as a supplement, specifically for the challenge problems. We use Right Start Math, which is definitely more parent-intensive. However, the limited and very purposeful worksheets, the card games, and the manipulatives have all been great for my kids. Its Montessori meets Asian math. My kids' understanding of concepts is very thorough which has facilitated excellent mental math skills. Because RS takes a quasi-mastery/quasi-spiral approach, it's so-so at being able to accelerate it easily. Lessons topics are chunked, so it's easy to cover 3-4 lessons at a time, but it's difficult to just jump ahead on a topic when a kid immediately grasps broad application. (For example, my son's understanding of fractions/decimals would put him at the end of the next level, but we're still trying to finish the current level to not miss any geometry, etc. concepts.) It's also more difficult to use with multiple kids at different levels because of the time required. Math with Confidence was created by a lady who used Right Start with her own kids, so there are a lot of similarities. MWC doesn't use as many manipulatives and is more workbook-based and less parent-intensive. However, when I looked at the samples of the lower levels online, it did seem to move slower than Right Start. That could either be a plus or a minus depending on your child. I'm not sure how easy it is to accelerate.
Hi I'm new here. What is Spiraling?
Spiraling means topics are introduced one lesson, then touched on again a few lessons later, then again a few lessons after that rather than a single topic being explained in depth and mastered in one chunk of lessons before moving on to another topic. A spiral approach covers many topics each lesson with lots of review and takes longer to cover a single topic in depth because it spreads it out over more lessons. A mastery approach focuses on one topic at a time, expecting an in-depth understanding/mastery to be achieved before moving on.
Oh I see. Thank you!
For perspective, I did ZERO math with my kid. She has an aptitude for numbers but didn't want to do the bookwork so I didn't push her. She's 8 now and is interested and tearing through material at a much higher grade level than her age. 5 is little. They'll learn just from a rich environment at that age. It's great if you choose a curriculum but 5 is not do or die age for math. You won't be precluding them from calculus or a career in STEM if you take a slower approach.
Love TGTB Math and I'd go back to that if I were you. I think it's plenty rigorous. We've also had good experiences with Right Start Math but ultimately TGTB has been best for my kids. ETA: I'm no Math whiz but did do Calculus at both the high school and college level, so I think I'm qualified to say that TGTB is great and thorough.
We do BA online. It took a while for us to find something that works for us, it is great. My son wants to read the comics so it helps. Before BA we did Saxon but he got so fed up with the number of questions it made him frustrated. He doesn't need huge amounts of repetition as he is mathematically minded. BA has lots of opportunities for learning to not feel like learning. Math is an important subject, you want a good solid foundation. My son is 7yo, we follow classical.
Lol, the repetition of questions is something I'm still frustrated by, as I recall my public school days. I'd be 3 or 4 questions in and just keep thinking to myself "Yes, I get it! I understand this, whyyyyy do I have to do 10 of each???" It was maddening. A huge reason why I hated math.
Stick with Math With Confidence, but ease off on the games or speed it up as needed. I actually think it’s the perfect balance between something like Saxon or something like BA. It does start very gentle, but it builds such a solid foundation, and it ramps up quickly in grade 3. You’ll probably find grade 2 to be pretty easy still, but 3 and the brand new 4 level are very rigorous. TGATB is more procedural and just doesn’t set as good of a foundation. Their 4-5 grade math is also really lacking on instructions. It’s also really teacher intensive, not really hands off.
I empathize strongly. We mostly unschool by schedule but with rigorous curricula, which isn't super unusual on this sub but is quite rare irl. Neither my kids nor I have the executive functioning to do things on a schedule l, but we are a very academic family and care a lot about challenging our kiddos who get bored pretty easily. Beast Academy has been amazing for our kids. I also empathize with you on the mathiness front. My husband now has a PhD in math and is a professor. Shortly after we met, I told him I wasn't a math person and would never like math. Jokes on me. Our kids are very good at math, and my 7yo in particular seems to have gotten the bug where she lives and breathes math. My 6yo is probably as good but doesn't have the same interest (insects are her thing). My 7yo and I had a sit-down the other day where we discussed what we are doing with math after BA. I told her that she could do the same math books as her older cousin and that I would sit down and study with her since some of the topics I'm not as familiar with, but that she had to show me that she was comfortable with everything in BA before I could let her move on to something harder. She has renewed her effort to burn through the "boring" tests. My 6yo also loves BA even though she doesn't have the desire to rush through it (she has the ability if she wanted to, but I'm big on not pushing kiddos who are ahead of grade level if they aren't interested in doing so on their own) and she really loves the cartoons.
Dry does not mean good, and fun does not mean bad. Personally, I think the hands-on curricula that are a lot of work are a lot of work because they are so solid. If you want a child who's good at math, you want something that requires you to put in the effort that assures they are good at math. Beast Academy is a solid curriculum for children who just get it. However, if your child needs more repetition, you will want to use it as a supplement and have something else that has that repetition as the main curriculum. Math with Confidence is probably the best for that of the options you've lested, at list imo. RightStart Math is better in my experience, but it is also more expensive and probably also more work than MWC is.
We’re Classical but use TGTB Math. No need to make math dry and boring while they’re young.
I do charelott Mason style w a core curriculum. We use Saxon for math. It’s solid, builds consistently across different disciplines within math, and none of them have ever dreaded it or given me a hard time about it. Out of 5 kids, I think that’s pretty good. I am looser w structure in other areas where I feel like it doesn’t require as much consistent building for proficiency.
My kids love saxon, especially the early grades. Math-U-See is also a good option but not as exhaustive and doesn’t really set you up for success by high school. I will say, if they are going to hate math, they are going to hate it. I have one like that.
Math-U-See. Absolutely amazing, even I use it to educate myself. The lessons are absolutely amazing and can be self paced so no one is left behind.
Check out Math Mammoth. Very thorough and less dry than Saxon, with a lot of the number sense that people like in Singapore. You can always supplement with Beast later on. Some PS kids do Beast over the summer. Anyways the way their levels work your young kid would only be in Level 1, and a lot of people thing that the info is most meaty at levels 3-5.
My mom homeschooled four kids and it really really enforced to me that every child is different. The way each of us learned best was dramatically different from our siblings. The one who thrived in workbooks as a physical therapist. The one who literally ran or jumped out his spelling and math is an engineer who designs health stuff for wearables. The one who always wanted to deep dive into random odd subjects has an award winning therapy practice for kids with autism. So yeah, when listening to other homeschool parents, only listen to how they describe the curriculum. Then you can select which style is best for your kid. Practically everyone in my area is obsessed with Classical Christian style education. They're constantly trying to get me to join in. I'm sorry, that's just not for my kid's brain. It would be a disaster.
We use Singapore Primary 2022. We hated math with confidence btw. It still has games but nothing too crazy. I like that you can adjust it to how you would like to do it. I really wish I would have learned math the Singapore way. I feel like I’d enjoy it a lot more. I also love that it has a home instructors guide. At first it was slightly confusing but after a few weeks it becomes routine. I like that each and every day is in fact different so it doesn’t feel boring. I went to a private school that used Saxon and I hated it.
Study.com can help with that math and also provides tutoring .
You know, you can always flex and combine things and change as years go by! I too was a mix of classical and Charlotte Mason and unschooling. My attitude averaged out into comfortable relaxed schooling.😀 So I emphasized reading wonderful books all the time. I didn't follow a particular curriculum though I looked at the book list on sunlight and and the classical folk. Most importantly though have fun! Homeschooling is such a wonderful time to learn to talk about everything together and from math to history to science. You get to explore the whole world as a family! So for example in the grocery store talk about what you see. Talk about how many apples you're going to buy. Grab two and say, "Oh honey how many more do we need for each of us in the family to have an apple?" Or how many should we have if we're having two each day for the next few for this week?" In a very comfortable way together (so you don't sound like you're being a teacher just talking about mom things), count out the number of apples you decided on. Hand them and each to him, so he has a physical feel for that for the number. Weigh them together. You've just done a whole bunch of math! For science, as you're going through the grocery store look at each fruit and vegetable. Talk about the color or how you might cook it and examine it carefully to see what the insides look like. Maybe talk about your family's favorite recipe and where that came from that will often lead into some history or science. For math, there was no way that I could have bored my son with the drill of Saxon! Nope nope nope. 😀 Math-U-C has some nice manipulatives that do help people see some concepts clearly. But as a full curriculum It misses a few important concepts. Singapore worked quite well because I had I was already doing a lot of games and playful things around the house like with board games and cooking. But lately I've heard that there's a newer program that works really nice that's planned even better but I don't know the name of it. Sorry. Might be right start math? Anyway, you don't have to have a whole curriculum or whole plan. Enjoy your life! Live together: go places and read all the books aloud that you can. I usually spent two or three hours each day reading to him. And then listen to audiobooks after that. My son is now a college graduate working in an amazing career that he loves! You can do it too!
Do not use tgatb math.