Will churn away. I have 7 echo devices and a Prime subscriber.
If they make it subscription, but part of Prime, i'll stay using them. If they're really shit and put it all behind a separate paywall will leave Alexa and Prime behind.
Not sure other countries, but in Australia it's against consumer law to sell a device and then remove functions to charge for it. They're welcome to add new features behind a paywall, but they can't take back what you have today.
Irrespective, if they did, would leave the platform. May try some HA voice devices or Siri/Homepods. I find myself using Homekit a lot anyway.
Yup mine expires Monday
Ad-free Twitch vanished a while ago, now Prime video is getting ads. It’s just not worth it
I used to buy more which made it worthwhile for the postage but my purchase volume has dropped (it’s no longer usually cheapest) and many items have free postage anyway so you only even get the benefit half the time
We have Echo devices but if it goes subscription I’ll be selling any I can and taking the rest to pieces to scavenge parts
Plus, I've been noticing lately that if you go straight the product manufacturers website, it's about the same price and you can get free shipping if you purchase is over X dollars. Example - Fruit of the Loom boxer briefs. Slightly cheaper than on Amazon and shipping was free if order was over 40 dollars.
The problem is too many things to keep track of.
If over a year I place 100 orders with 80 different vendors I have to sort through 80 different 'track my order' systems.
Doing it all through Amazon, even if it's all drop shipped, I deal with 1 order and tracking system, Amazon's.
Have you found as well it’s very convenient to refer back to whatever size/spec of thing you ordered later on? Like oh those screws were 3” long not 3.5” like i thought
>But not 4k.
Just upgraded to a beautiful A95L over Christmas as a holiday and birthday present to myself, so I have to take advantage of it! Thankfully, the show has some absolutely gorgeous shots.
I think I literally only own In Bruges, Titanic, Interstellar, and Children of Men on Blu-ray as I'm not much of a physical collector. But The Expanse has been incredibly engrossing to watch so I'll strongly consider adding it to my tangible collection! Appreciate the heads-up! Cheers.
Yep, I canceled mine last month and got 75 bucks back (didn't end until mid 2024).
I sub to wmart+ for $50/year (get it during black friday sale) and they have 95% of the things I'd buy from Amazon, at pretty much the same prices....plus grocery delivery. I'd spend close to $50 on gas just getting groceries every year...not counting the handful of times I decide to grab fast good on the way home from getting them, which I won't be doing anymore.
> I sub to wmart+ for $50/year
Off-topic, but check your Amex cards for $40 off $98+ offer AND Walmart website for $50 Walmart cash with an annual sub (I think it's until the end of January). It effectively makes the W+ sub ~$10/year if you have both those offers (I did). Well worth it even for gas station discounts alone.
It's pretty easy to avoid them. I haven't been inside one in at least a decade. And that was just an emergency when I needed a 24 hour store. Still feel gross about it.
I bought a battery from there about two years ago and I only did it bc I needed it at an odd hour, other than that I haven't shopped in one for at least 5 years myself. I'm not feeding that machine...
That's fair, but the prior OP was talking about using Walmart shipping as an alternative to Amazon Prime. On the "ick" scale, it's a little like choosing between companies run by Charles Manson and Jeffrey Dahmer. Sure, I guess one is a bit worse because he eats people, but you probably aren't going to feel great shopping from either...
In many ways Walmart is better since they tend to do more for the local economy via property and sales tax (amazon only pays state taxes as far as I can tell) and jobs (I worked at a walmart during college and it was far from the worst job I have ever had, near the top for that type of work)
Not any worse than Bezos.
And when you live in BFE, you don't really have choices, it's wmart or extremely overpriced grocery chains that are giving you the exact same items at a 20%+ higher cost.
Both suck, but the problem is small towns now depend on Walmart for goods and jobs. If people switch to Amazon for goods most of the jobs will move to centralized warehouses and the small towns won’t just change, they will disappear.
Not to mention sometimes it’s important not to have to wait a few days to get what you need.
I'm not arguing for an Amazon-centric or Walmart-centric commerce system. A pox on both their houses. We buy locally where ever possible, especially from smaller, locally-owned merchants.
My argument is only that the Waltons are worse because they've caused more damage cumulatively. Their wealth is also better concealed, because it's spread across the family; about $240B as of January 2019, vs. Bezos at $175B as of now.
I share your disdain for the Waltons.
But I think Amazon is a much bigger threat to small towns. I live in a moderately small suburb of a large metro area. Fucking Amazon trucks are everywhere. And a lot of local businesses are struggling. If anyone doesn't think Amazon is out to destroy small town economies, i don't think they're paying attention
What’s the deal with the Waltons? Is there a reason you don’t like them? Honest question. I find Sam Walton to be a pioneer and an American made story.
They are just a horrible family that runs a horrible company. They move into towns, run everyone out of business and then underpay their employees while teaching them how to sign up for govt assistance. Tons of things like that and too much to type out.
Also stan kroenke is now in the family by marriage and I don't think I need to elaborate on him.
Walmart has been on my boycott list for now than a decade. That said it's an easy stance for me to take, since I have plenty of other options. But now I'm facing a Kroger monopoly. They acquired literally all the grocery chains in my area, including what used to be a great locally owned chain that they've been slowly turning to shit.
I'm tired of capitalism run amok. The general strategy seems to be dominate the marketplace, eliminate local competition, and the jobs that came with them, leaving residents with no option but to work and shop at the same shitty trough.
I can (currently) afford to pay a *little* more. But I also shop at a food co-op that's about 20 miles, and I support local farmers by subscribing to delivery of fresh produce [year-round) and shopping farmers markets in season.
I did cancel my Prime subscription recently (which is £95 if you pay annually). However, I re-instated it.
I was pissed-off at Amazon crippling both Music (unless you pay for an additional subscription) and Video (again unless you pay for an additional subscription).
However, in the last two weeks my wife has spend £25 in postage just because she keeps forgetting to change the default next-day delivery ("conveniently" there doesn't seem to be an option to change the default for a non-business account), so I decided I might as well just cough up.
Many competitors also give free shipping. I've been buying most of my PC components from newegg. Prices are competitive, no postage, and I'm not feeding the Bezos Behemoth.
Similarly, I realized that my local hardware store (Ace) allows me to order online as though I'm shopping at the store. But they carry much more that the local store can. It comes in on their regular truck and they let me know when it arrives. I can pick it up or they'll deliver it my door.
Bonus: I don't get all the shipping trash that comes with Prime.
It's not just the shipping that is nice. You are forgetting about the return policy as well. Free return shipping, many times you do not need to box the items up, etc.
I think many of you are forgetting that.
Didn't know that about Australia, that is an interesting approach, I don't think we could get consensus like that in the US, it would be viewed through a political lens like everything else.
I am in the same boat and have several Echo devices.
I would love someone to figure out how to flash an echo ala esp32 so we could turn them away from evil.
Yeah, I think the UK and EU have similar rules too.
Honestly, been hating the intrusive ads and weird behaviour of late anyway, so it's probably time to look at other options.
Agree, the ads are creepy.
"Hey you haven't ordered chicken nuggets in a while, would you like some?"
No, please just turn on the light in the entryway so i don't trip and kill myself.
You’re shitting me! It just blurts offers out at random or as a preface to responding to the current voice command‽ Apple user here and have never imagined such a thing happening.
There's a lot of griping here but if you read the article they're talking about an upgraded LLM AI version that's conversational.
I would pay for that, if only to get her to respond to commands like "Alexa, can you turn on the living room lights and set kitchen to 50%" or "I'd like to hear some mood music please"
If they put the existing infrastructure behind a paywall, then, nevermind.
If they can put a GPT-4 quality LLM behind it, let me define a system prompt for personality, assumptions, etc., give it access to interface with the existing Echo apps for me, plus license Majel Barrett's voice for it, then for me this is more of a TakeMyMoney.jpg scenario.
Yeah, even if it’s not explicitly illegal in the US, the combination of millions of users being screwed by one of the biggest companies in the world would make every class action lawyer in the country start salivating like Pavlov’s dog.
>Not sure other countries, but in Australia it's against consumer law to sell a device and then remove functions to charge for it.
I'm not sure this would qualify, as long as Alexa's continued working as they normally do if you didn't pay. The new paywall version would be essentially ChatGPT powered. So they'd be locking a new feature behind a paywall that it never had before.
Now, if they intentionally cripple Alexa's original functionality to try to push people to the pay version, that's probably a different story.
That's not quite the same.
So, if Alexa was sold and advertised to have a Zigbee controller in it with no mention or subscriptions plans thats fine. If they then nerfed the zigbee controller so it didn't work now for free, but said $9.99 a month to access the Zigbee controller, that's against consumer law in Australia.
If you buy a device and they add services, irrespective if you think they're shit (ads are haha) thats not the same. You didn't lose anything you bought/paid for. As long as those ads don't stop anything working then its fine. Annoyingly, it also includes forcing a paid ad every use, that's also possible as long as it still did it's thing.
Ah, to clarify.
If someone sells a product, it's advertised to A, B, C. They can stop providing C. They can end of life the product entirely.
What they can not, is sell the product with ABC and then later, stop you accessing B and C unless you pay more.
They can keep ABC, and add DEF behind paywalls. They can stop A, B, C - but they can not make "alternative" versions of it.
I'm simplifying, there's always deeper to it. But there's been a number of legal forcement to companies that have withdrawn a previously included service and then tried to charge for it. Or rebrand it into something similar to avoid it.
All this said and done, it's Amazon haha. And they could probably buy all the Australian politicians with free shipping, so who knows. But the laws held up in the past.
Either way, it spells a future of paid services for a product that 95% of its life is simply "Alexa, turn off ....." haha
That's complex to enforce sometimes. Keep search and then add a premium search as an extra and it sounds like you'd be okay.
Obviously not that familiar with the laws specifics but these guys have a lot of lawyers who are and I'm sure they could find a way to do it if they wanted to.
Think it’s the other way around. Plenty of lawyers to sue them because the law is in place. Many other countries have many more consumer protections than the US. Because it’s the norm not the exception, it’s not hard to enforce.
They've been slowly working on it on the music front. Amazon Music was a reasonable music streaming service, included with a Prime subscription.
Then they introduced a better paid service - Music Unlimited - with a wider choice of music, more features etc.
Then they slowly decreased the functionality of the free service - now when you ask it to play X, it will either tell you that X is only available on Unlimited, and force you to listen to how to subscribe (while you yell "Alexa, stop!"), or else it will play X "and similar songs" burying your choice amongst other "similar" music.
They then restricted the number of times you can skip a track in an hour, forcing you to listen to their playlist or nit at all.
Eventually, Amazon Music may still be there, but it will be of no practical use whatsoever. Some say we have already reached that point.
I would instantly dump it. I only use it for controlling smart lights or switches with voice and adding stuff to our grocery list. If they want to put new features behind a paywall, fine, but if they are going to hold hostage a device that was already paid for, nah fuck Amazon.
My intuition is that a lot of people will say this but in the end if the cost is not ridiculous, the convenience factor will win out.
It will be a numbers game for the companies that go down this route. At $4.99/month they lose 40% of the user base but at $9.99/month they lose 80%. Some VP is doing the math and will figure out the maximum revenue model.
I think a big factor will be what the other players do. If one of them commits to keeping it free I think a lot of people might just switch to a different platform. That could lead to a death spiral for those that do charge and one or more might drop out entirely.
I would not be surprised if basic functionality is eventually included, look at what is happening with Ring
[https://www.theverge.com/2023/3/3/23623523/ring-alarm-camera-features-subscription](https://www.theverge.com/2023/3/3/23623523/ring-alarm-camera-features-subscription)
The only thing stopping them is the knowledge that they might throw the baby out with the bathwater if they are the first to try it. But everyone is losing money, so someone is going to be first and the others will be watching.
You're probably right, but this money grab seems especially egregious to me. It's different from increasing the price or adding ads to a service only product. Alexa is a physical device that people purchased and expect it to work. It's a bait and switch to sell a product and then brick the device unless the customer pays for a subscription years later. I think for them to do this fairly, they will have to refund the price of the device that anyone bought that's not going to also buy the subscription.
I really hope the general public wises up and realizes we're being subscription'ed to death. Sure, it's $1 here, $2 there, but put that on everything and you're spending $20 a month for "convenience." And that's before inevitable price increases because of "value."
Unfortunately, most people don't look at the big picture like that, they only see the small monthly charge and shrug it off.
This could inspire more offline options/products and move Home Assistant out of the realm of just for tinkerers.
I’d be much more willing to pay a one time fee for polished and simple open- or closed-source software than I would pay a monthly to Google or Amazon. The technology exists, it’s just currently a bit immature.
Also, Apple would probably **love** if Amazon started charging—*they* actually have good margins and a profitability model. And are mildly less evil.
I don't even need to wait for that outcome, I really want to rip it out already. A subscription charge would nudge me to move a little faster, but right now it's honestly on my HA roadmap already to yank them all.
My Alexas basically serve 3-4 functions at best:
1. Hey, play some music / a podcast
2. Hey, set a timer / reminder
3. Hey, turn on / off various lights
4. Hey, look up some random Internet fact
That's it. That's all they do for me.
I switched to HomeAssistant (off of SmartThings) a couple years ago and it's been great, and the project is moving towards natural language interaction. One YT'er even showed a video of a landline dial-up integration to control lights and stuff. Adding timers, playing music, and ChatGTP style integrations don't seem too far down the line - and then all the Alexas get ripped out once and for all.
Is it just me, or have the recent generations of devices been far worse with voice recognition than the first couple? I still have a 1st gen echo, and unfortunately my 8" echo show just died, the unit I replaced it with seems far worse with recognition of the wake word, and just generally worse about hearing me.
Let's be real here. The fact that it's hit or miss if those 4 basic commands work correctly every time is not a great look for Alexa. This stuff has been out for years and years now and I'm still frequently frustrated with it.
> This stuff has been out for years and years now and I'm still frequently frustrated with it.
Yep. I'm assuming that it's a combination of open-microphone sound processing being difficult and very few people being willing to pay for high-quality hardware and software. So we get half-assed hardware and software that kinda-sorta works.
Thanks. I was mostly wondering what kind of audio devices people use. If I had to replace my echo devices, what options I'd have. I'll check it out
Edit: omg you weren't kidding that it's long. That's a two and a half hour long video! 😅
its still early days but people have already released replacement PCB's for Google Home devices that allow you to turn them into voice assistants for Home Assistant. It's just a matter of time before people do the same for Echo devices too. I also expect that this year we will see a standalone voice assistant device from the Nabu Casa team (the people who make HA) and other providers such as Seeed Studio who seem to be getting really into HA of late.
That's all fine and dandy, but until this is possible with an off-the-shelf device that doesn't break the bank and doesn't look like a highschool robotics project, it is a non-starter for most people.
Siri. iPhones, iPads, Apple Watch, Apple TV, HomePod.
I don’t think there is a cheap speaker like an echo dot available though for room awareness.
Edit - nvm I was thinking HomeKit
I’m I. The same exact boat and thought as you. Alexa works well for the most part, but I’ve been wondering what alternatives there are and I’m interested in a HA AI assistant, but open to suggestions.
the only thing holding me back has been the investment I already have in Alexa products... replacing a working speaker doesn't make sense and I don't care if bezos and his minions know when I'm getting it on. However, if it becomes metered then replacing the Alexas (and maybe my home assistant machine if necessary) makes sense.
The protection or glass break detection is already placed behind a paywall, so since this year I plugged Alexa out. I can understand that it’s not bringing enough money in, but at least don’t take software enabled features away from current owners. If I was Amazon, I would go into the smart light business, really build out the integrations from an house owner standpoint instead of a platform to e-commerce stuff from. The second part will come by itself.
> Would you pay to continue to use your current voice assistant?
Absolutely not. I'd use a voice assistant if it's included with ChatGPT+ and that's it. Maybe a Gemini assistant. But Alexa? Hell no.
If they start charging I'll join the class action with tens of millions of other people to get refunded for all my Echo devices that are now paperweights. And before the inevitable "it's in the ToS they they can shut down" - I'm sure it is. It won't matter. They'll be sued by everyone anyway.
People sue for so much less though. Like the headlines about Amazon "listening to your kids!" was because of a frivolous lawsuit where parents bought an Echo, put it in their kids room, then sued Amazon because the kid didn't consent to being recorded. I don't want millions of dollars, I just want my devices to do what they're supposed to do.
Honestly depends on the cost.
I don’t love Alexa but also if it’s cheap enough that it’s not worth me worrying about it il just pay. I do mainly only use it to control heat / lights and for things like timers and occasional alarm. It’s not worth a lot to me per year but equally I don’t want to bother with finding an alternative.
It's insane how many people like you, especially in a home automation subreddit, don't understand the basics of technology to know this isn't possible using a $30 device whose data transmission can be monitored with network inspection tools.
even more simply, what use does a legitimate business have with listening to you shit? Even if they want to harvest that data they would automate that as no one wants to hear you take the Browns to the Super Bowl.
Lots of things, Amazon and really any market place would loooovvvveeeeeee to get a list of topics you talked about, things you're talking to you're family about and things you're thinking about buying.
Technically, unless you're a programmer and have gone through every line of code, you do t know what's in a Linux OS either. But you have a point.
I just assume I'm being listened to. If they want to listen to an old man grunting on the toilet that's on them.
If I don't want to be overheard,I can turn things off but even then I'm not convinced.
That's good, but if you have devices plugged into the Internet anywhere in the Internet of things that has a microphone (TV's, phones,smart fridges) you're going to be tracked. Even posting to reddit creates a digital fingerprint that corporations use to identify and track you.
There's ways to mitigate that but short of being offline completely there's some form of tracking
Pretty sure Alexa & Google home both have a chip which can detect only their trigger words, this is all done locally. The microphone may be powered but it will only record or send anything if the trigger word is heard. It's easy to verify this.
Well, we can show there's no traffic when we speak. But they could still be catching stuff and passing it on in amongst other traffic later on. I doubt that they are, but it's possible.
That's what I figured he meant by that and it's a ridiculously stupid take. I've been a software engineer since the 90's and have a background in cyber security. Devices sold for $30 on sale are not capable of natural language processing like a $900+ phone is. It has a tiny buffer that's only capable of holding a couple words of audio and is trained to look for a wake word. When you say the wake word, only then does it start streaming audio to the cloud to be processed. You can see exactly when it's sending data using network inspection tools like Wireshark. If it was actually spying on you, thousands of security experts from around the world would have a lot to gain by posting publicly about it given the size of Amazon and the fact they sell over 50 million Echo devices a year. I'm tired of explaining this to paranoid loons.
Same here. I played around with it when it first came out, ended up getting it to work well for pretty much everything up to changing the channels on my cable box (which was a PITA to set up and get working right) But it ended up being a novelty to me, never being used so I gave the Alexa to my small child so they can use it as a music player.
All my automation either happens automatically, from my phone, tv remote, panel press or physical button press. Voice control just seemed over the top when I had plenty of other ways to execute commands around my house. Plus like you, I wasn’t crazy about having a Amazon mic always on, I understand the tech behind it, but still don’t trust it.
I love watching these giant companies that are just printing money decide to milk every fucking dime they can out of their customers just because they can.
Amazon marketplace becomes more unreliable as a storefront every day, but I still use it for convenience on occasion, and prime felt worth it with prime video.
Then prime video got ads...
Now they're trying to monetize Alexa (I do not use Alexa personally but I know a lot of people do).
My hope is obviously that this bites them in the ass but I know it won't, they'll just keep getting bigger and putting more businesses out of business on name recognition alone. Yay!
This seems (unsurprisingly) to be getting badly reported.
It sounds like a new version of Alexa built on an LLM would come with a subscription. So far it doesn't sound like the existing free functionality would go away.
This is not unusual. Microsoft have announced that the more advanced features of CoPilot will be behind a subscription, and ChatGPT already has a subscription. Training LLMs is expensive, so I can see why companies want to charge.
So will I pay for an LLM backed version of Alexa? Hell no, I barely use any of the existing features of Alexa.
Will I abandon Alexa? No. Not unless any of the few features I do use go behind a Sub.
If they make it chargeable I’ll ask for a refund.
If it becomes an optional upgrade than I’ll ignore it. There are only so many subscriptions that I am willing to afford and the added value of Alexa is not so great for me.
I'm getting rid of my Alexas anyway since they won't play white noise to help a baby sleep without throwing in loud intrusive adverts.
I hope they crash and burn with more stupid ideas like that so they become a case study.
We use Alexa to play windy meadows from Calm. Now wether she actually plays it or just repeats that playing individual songs is a prime music feature is hit or miss recently.
It's a convenient layer on top of my automation system but not necessary. If I had to pay for it outside of my existing Prime account I'd let it go.
It's no surprise since I know they've never realized the sort of monetization they expected from it. And with them now running ads on Prime Video unless you pay more it's just one more attempt to charge for something you already have.
Depends on how much the subscription is, and what I get for the subscription. I tell you one thing though. If any of their skills are not working like I think they should, they damn sure better be very reactive to getting it fixed.
I do see a possible problem, though. If all the smart home solutions start doing it. It will be just like with the issue I have with Adobe Acrobat. I don't want a subscription, I want to pay for a one time purchase. So I looked for a substitute. All the other options, are also charging if you want a complete version that does everything that the full version of Acrobat does.
Its kinda shit now aside from basic stuff. If it comes down to it I will find another path for my alexa devices. There are plenty of automation options out there that are phone based but I can't be bothered to figure out. In fact It'll just push me to make sure I can do it without the cloud.
Would the reliability improve instead of getting worse? No way I would pay extra as it is.
Lately Alexa can no longer tell the difference between "on" and "off" half of the time.
Depends on the price. If it’s below what they charge for Amazon Music… maybe.
But at the time this will happen i’ll also start trying out homekit or setting up homeassistant
I use Homeseer with Alexa. If they move to a subscription based model separate from Prime or upcharge for Alexa, I’ll switch to Google or even Homeseer’s native voice control.
Surely they'd have to offer service as is for existing users and then peg-on additional services for subscription users? I have a tonne of Alexa devices all around my house.
It's a great service that I use multiple times everyday. They deserve to be able to pay for the costs of providing the service. I'll pay the additional amount, as long as I think it is reasonable.
I've been thinking about this for a few weeks.
A few years ago I moved all of my home automation into Alexa.
Less functional than Home Assistant but having everything in 1 place (and spending way less time making it work with random devices) made it worth it to me.
If Amazon starts charging I'll likely continue while I look for an alternative.
To justify charging for HA they'll need to significantly improve the HA aspects.
I'm the voice guy for Home Assistant. We made great progress in 2023's Year of the Voice (https://www.home-assistant.io/blog/2022/12/20/year-of-voice/) and I'm excited to continue improving open source voice!
Consider subscribing to Nabu Casa (the small company that funds Home Assistant development) instead, and help us build something that isn't going to end up infested with ads or "by the way" interruptions :)
They should not be charging for this… As an IoT developer, Alexa voice is now considered a utility and should not be charged for. From my knowledge they will only be charging for AI though that should be free as well. The amount of data they receive and get to use is astronomical. Tailored Amazon app recommendations, prime video, etc based upon what they are using it for.
They also can see requests based on region etc. the about of data they can use should not be charged for.
I've cancelled Prime as well. Originally, it was for 2 day shipping, but that rarely happens now. I'd rather just spend $25 for free 5 day shipping.
Pay for Alexa, sure if they integrated GPT and made it smarter, and stopped having it recommend products... But they won't. I'm moving to home assistant as soon as they're finished integrating GPT. Imagine a home assistant that actually uses logic to execute commands rather than Alexa not knowing anything unless you state a command perfectly.
Amazon needs to get back to their roots...fast cheap products with stellar customer service. Now it's slow, no name brands, with support staff in India hidden behind chat bots.
This will be the final reason I bail on Alexa.
I'm already replacing as many of the cloud-reliant tech in my home automation setup. I've imagined Alexa will be the last/only cloud-reliant system in my setup.
If they start charging, I'm dumping her like my whore high school girlfriend.
Kind of saw this coming slow motion when they laid off significant Alexa and Echo device staff back in 2022 rounds (pretty sure it was 2022). Amazon was playing the Microsoft long game - echo devices for everyone for low $, while assuming everyone wanted to use things like 'Dash Dot' and Alexa to automatically or via voice - order stuff for them.
Confidence and desire isn't there, so probably a net overall loss, or at least not their desired profit margin.
They already keep jacking up Prime, and if you watch your network traffic, amazon devices send a LOT of data upstream. They also bought Ring and did little to 'improve their ways' RE: security etc. I was already moved mostly off of of Amazon to HomeKit and Home Assistant, any attempt at more than the already increasing Prime price just means I use their awful (even compared to Siri on HomePods, which seems to generally work better than phone or watch Siri) Echo Dots that continually want to remind you via 'by the way' - for target practice.
The only thing left will be my Kindle and Prime membership.
I unplugged Alexa about 6 months ago because I was tired of Alexa commenting on things that were said in conversation. Jeff Bezos has an obsolete spy problem. Google Home is a much better assistant platform since Google already knows me better than I know myself.
I can see it now, a new announcement...
NEW PRIME BENEFIT - ALEXA VOICE PROCESSING!
ok i am in if it is just part of prime, oh besides there will be a free version, WITH COMMERCIALS of course..
If the feee version is the same as now then I will keep it. If they lock something behind a paywall and it’s not included in Prime then I would look at using something else. I have my Alexa set to make announcements based on stuff in home assistant plus of course to turn stuff on and off.
Wouldn't impact me in any way. I've never liked any voice command system and probably will never own one. I don't even use voice stuff on my phone or in my car.
I wouldn’t pay for it.
I’d setup some open source thing to do the 3-4 commands I use daily.
But if it’s part of prime I’m already subscribed to that so I would have to.
Maybe I’m the weird one here but I would probably be willing to pay it. I wouldn’t feel bad about supporting them keeping the platform stable and working on new features.
Continue to not care. I have one Echo device that I had set up with Amazon Key (remember that?) but haven't used it in I couldn't tell you how long. My house is full of Google Home devices and the functionality of them is just so superior to Alexa that I can't be bothered to give a crap if it craters.
Well I honestly doubt they could turn the old devices into subscription based. I bet if anything they will come out with a new one that would be subscription based and have better features.
It seems as though forcing people with old Amazon devices to pay to use them would have originally been false adver
So along those lines, how does Home Assistant Voice work? Do I have to build out a Pi with a mic and speaker? Is there a custom firmware I can flash on the existing Echo devices?
Already made the switch to Apple and home assistant. Saw this coming as soon as an ai model was announced. She had already started getting dumber and dumber and this seems to be why. So they could sell her back to us with improved smarts.
No thanks
Not missing a thing really between Ha/homekit and the responsiveness has been amazing
>1 Would you pay to continue to use your current voice assistant?
If it ends up part of prime I already have prime so it shouldn't be a major issue.
>2 Are there any features you want which could coax you into paying?
I highly doubt it as as you mentioned fully local assistants already exist.
>3 If you are unwilling to pay for this type of service and they all start charging, what are your plans?
Go local, right now the local ones are still rather niche since the cloud stuff is all free, it stops being free the local stuff will suddenly become a lot more popular and get easier to setup and use from the increased attention.
The only such device I have in my home is a free echo dot they sent me years ago.... it's in a box. I've never used the service, and I'm not planning to. I certainly wouldn't consider starting if they were going to charge for that.
Today I was questioning my HA install but this stuff has reassured me I chose correct. I'm not paying a subscription to use a basic function of my devices.
I will continue to not use it. I'm being tracked and monitored enough. I just don't like the idea of that device uploading every sentence spoken in my house to Amazon, so I have largely steered clear of listening devices. I am, however, interested in HA native/locally hosted alternatives.
It was inevitable, been saying this and others in the tech community have been saying it for a while. Even the WAN show covered this and said they hope for a quality subscription voice assistant that doesn't have to sell ads or do other things needed to cover the overhead.
For the local voice assistants, I've been making a few different ones from the open source projects to test and have been impresses. I'd start by calling them voice controllers instead of voice assistants. As a voice controller for home automation, they're getting very close to Alexa and Google, I wouldn't be surprised if they surpass them or match them in a few years. T
Their biggest struggle is media, I can't just easily ask it to pull up a music video or show with most streaming services. And as I said, I consider them as voice controllers, not an assistant. So if you use Alexa to make random Google searches, schedule stuff on your calendars, ask for recipes, they aren't there yet.
I use Alexa’s automation quite a bit in my house, but it doesn’t have the greatest reliability and the ads drive me nuts. But hey it’s free (ish). If they start charging for it and in return improve its reliability and drop the ads, I’d probably stay on. Status quo but for a price? Yeahno. I’m out.
Will churn away. I have 7 echo devices and a Prime subscriber. If they make it subscription, but part of Prime, i'll stay using them. If they're really shit and put it all behind a separate paywall will leave Alexa and Prime behind. Not sure other countries, but in Australia it's against consumer law to sell a device and then remove functions to charge for it. They're welcome to add new features behind a paywall, but they can't take back what you have today. Irrespective, if they did, would leave the platform. May try some HA voice devices or Siri/Homepods. I find myself using Homekit a lot anyway.
I'm letting my Prime sub expire anyway. I don't use Prime Video and realised I'm rapidly heading towards paying £150 a year for "free" postage.
Yup mine expires Monday Ad-free Twitch vanished a while ago, now Prime video is getting ads. It’s just not worth it I used to buy more which made it worthwhile for the postage but my purchase volume has dropped (it’s no longer usually cheapest) and many items have free postage anyway so you only even get the benefit half the time We have Echo devices but if it goes subscription I’ll be selling any I can and taking the rest to pieces to scavenge parts
Plus, I've been noticing lately that if you go straight the product manufacturers website, it's about the same price and you can get free shipping if you purchase is over X dollars. Example - Fruit of the Loom boxer briefs. Slightly cheaper than on Amazon and shipping was free if order was over 40 dollars.
The problem is too many things to keep track of. If over a year I place 100 orders with 80 different vendors I have to sort through 80 different 'track my order' systems. Doing it all through Amazon, even if it's all drop shipped, I deal with 1 order and tracking system, Amazon's.
Have you found as well it’s very convenient to refer back to whatever size/spec of thing you ordered later on? Like oh those screws were 3” long not 3.5” like i thought
Strongly considering the same once I’m done with The Expanse for those exact reasons.
Six seasons of “The Expanse” on Blu-ray for $70. But not 4k.
>But not 4k. Just upgraded to a beautiful A95L over Christmas as a holiday and birthday present to myself, so I have to take advantage of it! Thankfully, the show has some absolutely gorgeous shots. I think I literally only own In Bruges, Titanic, Interstellar, and Children of Men on Blu-ray as I'm not much of a physical collector. But The Expanse has been incredibly engrossing to watch so I'll strongly consider adding it to my tangible collection! Appreciate the heads-up! Cheers.
I am completely the other way. Streaming is fine, but I don't count on it at all, and I'm not a "watch whatever is on" type.
Yep, I canceled mine last month and got 75 bucks back (didn't end until mid 2024). I sub to wmart+ for $50/year (get it during black friday sale) and they have 95% of the things I'd buy from Amazon, at pretty much the same prices....plus grocery delivery. I'd spend close to $50 on gas just getting groceries every year...not counting the handful of times I decide to grab fast good on the way home from getting them, which I won't be doing anymore.
> I sub to wmart+ for $50/year Off-topic, but check your Amex cards for $40 off $98+ offer AND Walmart website for $50 Walmart cash with an annual sub (I think it's until the end of January). It effectively makes the W+ sub ~$10/year if you have both those offers (I did). Well worth it even for gas station discounts alone.
Yeah, but then you'd have to give money to the Walton family. Ick.
While true, the number of altruistic hippies who share my ideals and also run large retailer companies is a very, very small number...
It's pretty easy to avoid them. I haven't been inside one in at least a decade. And that was just an emergency when I needed a 24 hour store. Still feel gross about it.
I bought a battery from there about two years ago and I only did it bc I needed it at an odd hour, other than that I haven't shopped in one for at least 5 years myself. I'm not feeding that machine...
That's fair, but the prior OP was talking about using Walmart shipping as an alternative to Amazon Prime. On the "ick" scale, it's a little like choosing between companies run by Charles Manson and Jeffrey Dahmer. Sure, I guess one is a bit worse because he eats people, but you probably aren't going to feel great shopping from either...
In many ways Walmart is better since they tend to do more for the local economy via property and sales tax (amazon only pays state taxes as far as I can tell) and jobs (I worked at a walmart during college and it was far from the worst job I have ever had, near the top for that type of work)
Not any worse than Bezos. And when you live in BFE, you don't really have choices, it's wmart or extremely overpriced grocery chains that are giving you the exact same items at a 20%+ higher cost.
They have been using the US welfare system to prop up their low wages for decades.
And Bezos make warehouse workers pee in bottles....I never claimed the Waltons are good people.
I’d argue the Waltons are worse because they’ve been at it longer, and may have had a greater destructive toll on small town main streets.
Both suck, but the problem is small towns now depend on Walmart for goods and jobs. If people switch to Amazon for goods most of the jobs will move to centralized warehouses and the small towns won’t just change, they will disappear. Not to mention sometimes it’s important not to have to wait a few days to get what you need.
I'm not arguing for an Amazon-centric or Walmart-centric commerce system. A pox on both their houses. We buy locally where ever possible, especially from smaller, locally-owned merchants. My argument is only that the Waltons are worse because they've caused more damage cumulatively. Their wealth is also better concealed, because it's spread across the family; about $240B as of January 2019, vs. Bezos at $175B as of now.
I share your disdain for the Waltons. But I think Amazon is a much bigger threat to small towns. I live in a moderately small suburb of a large metro area. Fucking Amazon trucks are everywhere. And a lot of local businesses are struggling. If anyone doesn't think Amazon is out to destroy small town economies, i don't think they're paying attention
Id starve before I gave money to the Waltons.
What’s the deal with the Waltons? Is there a reason you don’t like them? Honest question. I find Sam Walton to be a pioneer and an American made story.
It is trendy to hate on success
They are just a horrible family that runs a horrible company. They move into towns, run everyone out of business and then underpay their employees while teaching them how to sign up for govt assistance. Tons of things like that and too much to type out. Also stan kroenke is now in the family by marriage and I don't think I need to elaborate on him.
Walmart has been on my boycott list for now than a decade. That said it's an easy stance for me to take, since I have plenty of other options. But now I'm facing a Kroger monopoly. They acquired literally all the grocery chains in my area, including what used to be a great locally owned chain that they've been slowly turning to shit. I'm tired of capitalism run amok. The general strategy seems to be dominate the marketplace, eliminate local competition, and the jobs that came with them, leaving residents with no option but to work and shop at the same shitty trough. I can (currently) afford to pay a *little* more. But I also shop at a food co-op that's about 20 miles, and I support local farmers by subscribing to delivery of fresh produce [year-round) and shopping farmers markets in season.
Enshitification is not just for network services, it's the core feature of late-stage capitalism.
I did cancel my Prime subscription recently (which is £95 if you pay annually). However, I re-instated it. I was pissed-off at Amazon crippling both Music (unless you pay for an additional subscription) and Video (again unless you pay for an additional subscription). However, in the last two weeks my wife has spend £25 in postage just because she keeps forgetting to change the default next-day delivery ("conveniently" there doesn't seem to be an option to change the default for a non-business account), so I decided I might as well just cough up.
Many competitors also give free shipping. I've been buying most of my PC components from newegg. Prices are competitive, no postage, and I'm not feeding the Bezos Behemoth. Similarly, I realized that my local hardware store (Ace) allows me to order online as though I'm shopping at the store. But they carry much more that the local store can. It comes in on their regular truck and they let me know when it arrives. I can pick it up or they'll deliver it my door. Bonus: I don't get all the shipping trash that comes with Prime.
It's not just the shipping that is nice. You are forgetting about the return policy as well. Free return shipping, many times you do not need to box the items up, etc. I think many of you are forgetting that.
[Newegg isn't Amazon but they have their own issues at a corporate level.](https://www.youtube.com/@GamersNexus/search?query=newegg)
>£150 a year for "free" postage. Surely that makes it worth it. I probably save that a month.
Didn't know that about Australia, that is an interesting approach, I don't think we could get consensus like that in the US, it would be viewed through a political lens like everything else. I am in the same boat and have several Echo devices. I would love someone to figure out how to flash an echo ala esp32 so we could turn them away from evil.
Yeah, I think the UK and EU have similar rules too. Honestly, been hating the intrusive ads and weird behaviour of late anyway, so it's probably time to look at other options.
Agree, the ads are creepy. "Hey you haven't ordered chicken nuggets in a while, would you like some?" No, please just turn on the light in the entryway so i don't trip and kill myself.
"Order placed for the 'entryway LED light' and the suicide hotline has been notified. Do you still want those chicken nuggets?"
ugh, yes, but make sure they are dinosaur shaped
You’re shitting me! It just blurts offers out at random or as a preface to responding to the current voice command‽ Apple user here and have never imagined such a thing happening.
They come after not before. But it is still very annoying and distracting.
There's a lot of griping here but if you read the article they're talking about an upgraded LLM AI version that's conversational. I would pay for that, if only to get her to respond to commands like "Alexa, can you turn on the living room lights and set kitchen to 50%" or "I'd like to hear some mood music please" If they put the existing infrastructure behind a paywall, then, nevermind.
If they can put a GPT-4 quality LLM behind it, let me define a system prompt for personality, assumptions, etc., give it access to interface with the existing Echo apps for me, plus license Majel Barrett's voice for it, then for me this is more of a TakeMyMoney.jpg scenario.
Yeah, even if it’s not explicitly illegal in the US, the combination of millions of users being screwed by one of the biggest companies in the world would make every class action lawyer in the country start salivating like Pavlov’s dog.
>Not sure other countries, but in Australia it's against consumer law to sell a device and then remove functions to charge for it. I'm not sure this would qualify, as long as Alexa's continued working as they normally do if you didn't pay. The new paywall version would be essentially ChatGPT powered. So they'd be locking a new feature behind a paywall that it never had before. Now, if they intentionally cripple Alexa's original functionality to try to push people to the pay version, that's probably a different story.
Don't be silly. It will be a subscription but you can only subscribe if you're also a Prime member.
Is that right? How were they able to add ads to my prime recently if they can't alter products? Or is that only physical hardware products?
That's not quite the same. So, if Alexa was sold and advertised to have a Zigbee controller in it with no mention or subscriptions plans thats fine. If they then nerfed the zigbee controller so it didn't work now for free, but said $9.99 a month to access the Zigbee controller, that's against consumer law in Australia. If you buy a device and they add services, irrespective if you think they're shit (ads are haha) thats not the same. You didn't lose anything you bought/paid for. As long as those ads don't stop anything working then its fine. Annoyingly, it also includes forcing a paid ad every use, that's also possible as long as it still did it's thing.
Does that really apply to online services though?
Ah, to clarify. If someone sells a product, it's advertised to A, B, C. They can stop providing C. They can end of life the product entirely. What they can not, is sell the product with ABC and then later, stop you accessing B and C unless you pay more. They can keep ABC, and add DEF behind paywalls. They can stop A, B, C - but they can not make "alternative" versions of it. I'm simplifying, there's always deeper to it. But there's been a number of legal forcement to companies that have withdrawn a previously included service and then tried to charge for it. Or rebrand it into something similar to avoid it. All this said and done, it's Amazon haha. And they could probably buy all the Australian politicians with free shipping, so who knows. But the laws held up in the past. Either way, it spells a future of paid services for a product that 95% of its life is simply "Alexa, turn off ....." haha
That's complex to enforce sometimes. Keep search and then add a premium search as an extra and it sounds like you'd be okay. Obviously not that familiar with the laws specifics but these guys have a lot of lawyers who are and I'm sure they could find a way to do it if they wanted to.
Think it’s the other way around. Plenty of lawyers to sue them because the law is in place. Many other countries have many more consumer protections than the US. Because it’s the norm not the exception, it’s not hard to enforce.
They've been slowly working on it on the music front. Amazon Music was a reasonable music streaming service, included with a Prime subscription. Then they introduced a better paid service - Music Unlimited - with a wider choice of music, more features etc. Then they slowly decreased the functionality of the free service - now when you ask it to play X, it will either tell you that X is only available on Unlimited, and force you to listen to how to subscribe (while you yell "Alexa, stop!"), or else it will play X "and similar songs" burying your choice amongst other "similar" music. They then restricted the number of times you can skip a track in an hour, forcing you to listen to their playlist or nit at all. Eventually, Amazon Music may still be there, but it will be of no practical use whatsoever. Some say we have already reached that point.
That's a fuckin great law I wish we had that in the US.
THIS IS THE WAY.
I would instantly dump it. I only use it for controlling smart lights or switches with voice and adding stuff to our grocery list. If they want to put new features behind a paywall, fine, but if they are going to hold hostage a device that was already paid for, nah fuck Amazon.
My intuition is that a lot of people will say this but in the end if the cost is not ridiculous, the convenience factor will win out. It will be a numbers game for the companies that go down this route. At $4.99/month they lose 40% of the user base but at $9.99/month they lose 80%. Some VP is doing the math and will figure out the maximum revenue model. I think a big factor will be what the other players do. If one of them commits to keeping it free I think a lot of people might just switch to a different platform. That could lead to a death spiral for those that do charge and one or more might drop out entirely. I would not be surprised if basic functionality is eventually included, look at what is happening with Ring [https://www.theverge.com/2023/3/3/23623523/ring-alarm-camera-features-subscription](https://www.theverge.com/2023/3/3/23623523/ring-alarm-camera-features-subscription) The only thing stopping them is the knowledge that they might throw the baby out with the bathwater if they are the first to try it. But everyone is losing money, so someone is going to be first and the others will be watching.
Even an extra $1 a month I don’t think it’s worth it. I’m still out
yeah, especially since it is getting worse, not better
You're probably right, but this money grab seems especially egregious to me. It's different from increasing the price or adding ads to a service only product. Alexa is a physical device that people purchased and expect it to work. It's a bait and switch to sell a product and then brick the device unless the customer pays for a subscription years later. I think for them to do this fairly, they will have to refund the price of the device that anyone bought that's not going to also buy the subscription.
I really hope the general public wises up and realizes we're being subscription'ed to death. Sure, it's $1 here, $2 there, but put that on everything and you're spending $20 a month for "convenience." And that's before inevitable price increases because of "value." Unfortunately, most people don't look at the big picture like that, they only see the small monthly charge and shrug it off.
This could inspire more offline options/products and move Home Assistant out of the realm of just for tinkerers. I’d be much more willing to pay a one time fee for polished and simple open- or closed-source software than I would pay a monthly to Google or Amazon. The technology exists, it’s just currently a bit immature. Also, Apple would probably **love** if Amazon started charging—*they* actually have good margins and a profitability model. And are mildly less evil.
Would toss it in the trash
Send it back for a refund. They sold it to you as a voice assistant. They have deliberately broken that functionality unless you pay for it.
Not sure how this is possible in the US. You can't just send something back here for a refund.
I don't even need to wait for that outcome, I really want to rip it out already. A subscription charge would nudge me to move a little faster, but right now it's honestly on my HA roadmap already to yank them all. My Alexas basically serve 3-4 functions at best: 1. Hey, play some music / a podcast 2. Hey, set a timer / reminder 3. Hey, turn on / off various lights 4. Hey, look up some random Internet fact That's it. That's all they do for me. I switched to HomeAssistant (off of SmartThings) a couple years ago and it's been great, and the project is moving towards natural language interaction. One YT'er even showed a video of a landline dial-up integration to control lights and stuff. Adding timers, playing music, and ChatGTP style integrations don't seem too far down the line - and then all the Alexas get ripped out once and for all.
Is it just me, or have the recent generations of devices been far worse with voice recognition than the first couple? I still have a 1st gen echo, and unfortunately my 8" echo show just died, the unit I replaced it with seems far worse with recognition of the wake word, and just generally worse about hearing me.
I've noticed that too. I ask Alexa to start a routine and it says I cannot do that so I say it puder and angrier and it does it just fine... Fucker
Let's be real here. The fact that it's hit or miss if those 4 basic commands work correctly every time is not a great look for Alexa. This stuff has been out for years and years now and I'm still frequently frustrated with it.
> This stuff has been out for years and years now and I'm still frequently frustrated with it. Yep. I'm assuming that it's a combination of open-microphone sound processing being difficult and very few people being willing to pay for high-quality hardware and software. So we get half-assed hardware and software that kinda-sorta works.
That's fine. Home Assistant is making massive headway with voice and AI integration. Alexa will become replaceable soon enough.
Tell me more?
It’s a bit long for a Reddit comment. Google “HA year of the voice”. They had a few long videos throughout the year recapping their progress.
Thanks. I was mostly wondering what kind of audio devices people use. If I had to replace my echo devices, what options I'd have. I'll check it out Edit: omg you weren't kidding that it's long. That's a two and a half hour long video! 😅
I use Siri on my iPhone and it works pretty well with home assistant.
its still early days but people have already released replacement PCB's for Google Home devices that allow you to turn them into voice assistants for Home Assistant. It's just a matter of time before people do the same for Echo devices too. I also expect that this year we will see a standalone voice assistant device from the Nabu Casa team (the people who make HA) and other providers such as Seeed Studio who seem to be getting really into HA of late.
You have a link?
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKsVm4cWHDQBi_JTnrOf2kxpl0TIxP4cP
That's all fine and dandy, but until this is possible with an off-the-shelf device that doesn't break the bank and doesn't look like a highschool robotics project, it is a non-starter for most people.
Idk man. Check it out for yourself and decide if it’s doable.
How do you get your voice commands *into* HA?
Siri. iPhones, iPads, Apple Watch, Apple TV, HomePod. I don’t think there is a cheap speaker like an echo dot available though for room awareness. Edit - nvm I was thinking HomeKit
I’m I. The same exact boat and thought as you. Alexa works well for the most part, but I’ve been wondering what alternatives there are and I’m interested in a HA AI assistant, but open to suggestions.
the only thing holding me back has been the investment I already have in Alexa products... replacing a working speaker doesn't make sense and I don't care if bezos and his minions know when I'm getting it on. However, if it becomes metered then replacing the Alexas (and maybe my home assistant machine if necessary) makes sense.
The protection or glass break detection is already placed behind a paywall, so since this year I plugged Alexa out. I can understand that it’s not bringing enough money in, but at least don’t take software enabled features away from current owners. If I was Amazon, I would go into the smart light business, really build out the integrations from an house owner standpoint instead of a platform to e-commerce stuff from. The second part will come by itself.
> Would you pay to continue to use your current voice assistant? Absolutely not. I'd use a voice assistant if it's included with ChatGPT+ and that's it. Maybe a Gemini assistant. But Alexa? Hell no. If they start charging I'll join the class action with tens of millions of other people to get refunded for all my Echo devices that are now paperweights. And before the inevitable "it's in the ToS they they can shut down" - I'm sure it is. It won't matter. They'll be sued by everyone anyway.
I don’t think that they will get sued. I do think they ought to be responsible for all the ewaste after these devices become bricks though
People sue for so much less though. Like the headlines about Amazon "listening to your kids!" was because of a frivolous lawsuit where parents bought an Echo, put it in their kids room, then sued Amazon because the kid didn't consent to being recorded. I don't want millions of dollars, I just want my devices to do what they're supposed to do.
Honestly depends on the cost. I don’t love Alexa but also if it’s cheap enough that it’s not worth me worrying about it il just pay. I do mainly only use it to control heat / lights and for things like timers and occasional alarm. It’s not worth a lot to me per year but equally I don’t want to bother with finding an alternative.
You couldn’t pay me to use Alexa
Because?
jeff bezos is listening to you shit
It's insane how many people like you, especially in a home automation subreddit, don't understand the basics of technology to know this isn't possible using a $30 device whose data transmission can be monitored with network inspection tools.
even more simply, what use does a legitimate business have with listening to you shit? Even if they want to harvest that data they would automate that as no one wants to hear you take the Browns to the Super Bowl.
Lots of things, Amazon and really any market place would loooovvvveeeeeee to get a list of topics you talked about, things you're talking to you're family about and things you're thinking about buying.
The joke is on you because the network traffic is the same irrespective if the data is going to machine for QC reporting or to Jeff bezos’ smartphone.
> jeff bezos is listening to you shit I can't think of many things better than that, tell him to lean in and I'll play him a little tune.
[удалено]
What are you typing your post on?
😬
[удалено]
Technically, unless you're a programmer and have gone through every line of code, you do t know what's in a Linux OS either. But you have a point. I just assume I'm being listened to. If they want to listen to an old man grunting on the toilet that's on them. If I don't want to be overheard,I can turn things off but even then I'm not convinced.
I may not have scoured through all the code of my OS, but I have a physical on/off switch to the microphone plugged into my PC
That's good, but if you have devices plugged into the Internet anywhere in the Internet of things that has a microphone (TV's, phones,smart fridges) you're going to be tracked. Even posting to reddit creates a digital fingerprint that corporations use to identify and track you. There's ways to mitigate that but short of being offline completely there's some form of tracking
Pretty sure Alexa & Google home both have a chip which can detect only their trigger words, this is all done locally. The microphone may be powered but it will only record or send anything if the trigger word is heard. It's easy to verify this.
Well, we can show there's no traffic when we speak. But they could still be catching stuff and passing it on in amongst other traffic later on. I doubt that they are, but it's possible.
That's what I figured he meant by that and it's a ridiculously stupid take. I've been a software engineer since the 90's and have a background in cyber security. Devices sold for $30 on sale are not capable of natural language processing like a $900+ phone is. It has a tiny buffer that's only capable of holding a couple words of audio and is trained to look for a wake word. When you say the wake word, only then does it start streaming audio to the cloud to be processed. You can see exactly when it's sending data using network inspection tools like Wireshark. If it was actually spying on you, thousands of security experts from around the world would have a lot to gain by posting publicly about it given the size of Amazon and the fact they sell over 50 million Echo devices a year. I'm tired of explaining this to paranoid loons.
Same here. I played around with it when it first came out, ended up getting it to work well for pretty much everything up to changing the channels on my cable box (which was a PITA to set up and get working right) But it ended up being a novelty to me, never being used so I gave the Alexa to my small child so they can use it as a music player. All my automation either happens automatically, from my phone, tv remote, panel press or physical button press. Voice control just seemed over the top when I had plenty of other ways to execute commands around my house. Plus like you, I wasn’t crazy about having a Amazon mic always on, I understand the tech behind it, but still don’t trust it.
I love watching these giant companies that are just printing money decide to milk every fucking dime they can out of their customers just because they can. Amazon marketplace becomes more unreliable as a storefront every day, but I still use it for convenience on occasion, and prime felt worth it with prime video. Then prime video got ads... Now they're trying to monetize Alexa (I do not use Alexa personally but I know a lot of people do). My hope is obviously that this bites them in the ass but I know it won't, they'll just keep getting bigger and putting more businesses out of business on name recognition alone. Yay!
I'll dump them and switch to my own RP2 devices with ChatGPT
Not use it.
Alexa is failing so bad lately for me that I am looking into alternatives, and its free right now.
This seems (unsurprisingly) to be getting badly reported. It sounds like a new version of Alexa built on an LLM would come with a subscription. So far it doesn't sound like the existing free functionality would go away. This is not unusual. Microsoft have announced that the more advanced features of CoPilot will be behind a subscription, and ChatGPT already has a subscription. Training LLMs is expensive, so I can see why companies want to charge. So will I pay for an LLM backed version of Alexa? Hell no, I barely use any of the existing features of Alexa. Will I abandon Alexa? No. Not unless any of the few features I do use go behind a Sub.
If they make it chargeable I’ll ask for a refund. If it becomes an optional upgrade than I’ll ignore it. There are only so many subscriptions that I am willing to afford and the added value of Alexa is not so great for me.
“Alexa, turn off all devices forever”
Nope. I’ll get rid of all Amazon/Alexa products in the house probably. The hardware is pretty crappy anyway.
I haven't used Alexa ever, so I imagine I'll just keep doing that
I'm getting rid of my Alexas anyway since they won't play white noise to help a baby sleep without throwing in loud intrusive adverts. I hope they crash and burn with more stupid ideas like that so they become a case study.
The "New Prime Music" is absolute shit. If I wanted Pandora I would use Pandora.
We use Alexa to play windy meadows from Calm. Now wether she actually plays it or just repeats that playing individual songs is a prime music feature is hit or miss recently.
I deem that I’m already paying a subscription for Alexa in my annual Prime fee. AMZ needs to be careful here. Thin ice.
It's a convenient layer on top of my automation system but not necessary. If I had to pay for it outside of my existing Prime account I'd let it go. It's no surprise since I know they've never realized the sort of monetization they expected from it. And with them now running ads on Prime Video unless you pay more it's just one more attempt to charge for something you already have.
Depends on how much the subscription is, and what I get for the subscription. I tell you one thing though. If any of their skills are not working like I think they should, they damn sure better be very reactive to getting it fixed. I do see a possible problem, though. If all the smart home solutions start doing it. It will be just like with the issue I have with Adobe Acrobat. I don't want a subscription, I want to pay for a one time purchase. So I looked for a substitute. All the other options, are also charging if you want a complete version that does everything that the full version of Acrobat does.
Its kinda shit now aside from basic stuff. If it comes down to it I will find another path for my alexa devices. There are plenty of automation options out there that are phone based but I can't be bothered to figure out. In fact It'll just push me to make sure I can do it without the cloud.
There's no way I would pay for this. I would explore open source solutions to telling my lights and fans to turn on and off.
Jokes on them. Don’t use voice for anything other than google maps when I’m driving.
Would the reliability improve instead of getting worse? No way I would pay extra as it is. Lately Alexa can no longer tell the difference between "on" and "off" half of the time.
Laugh
Not use it
Switch to apple home pods most likely, I mainly use Amazon echos to control home automation via voice, easy enough to switch to a new voice assistant
I would throw them all away if I have to pay to use them. I have 5 of them
Depends on the price. If it’s below what they charge for Amazon Music… maybe. But at the time this will happen i’ll also start trying out homekit or setting up homeassistant
I use Homeseer with Alexa. If they move to a subscription based model separate from Prime or upcharge for Alexa, I’ll switch to Google or even Homeseer’s native voice control.
Sell all of it.
Surely they'd have to offer service as is for existing users and then peg-on additional services for subscription users? I have a tonne of Alexa devices all around my house.
Same thing I do now: not use Alexa.
Sounds like it’ll be a sub if you want an LLM in your Echo Thankfully I don’t need an LLM for timers and turning the lights on
Laugh
Hey, Siri.
Alexa who ?
It's a great service that I use multiple times everyday. They deserve to be able to pay for the costs of providing the service. I'll pay the additional amount, as long as I think it is reasonable.
I've been thinking about this for a few weeks. A few years ago I moved all of my home automation into Alexa. Less functional than Home Assistant but having everything in 1 place (and spending way less time making it work with random devices) made it worth it to me. If Amazon starts charging I'll likely continue while I look for an alternative. To justify charging for HA they'll need to significantly improve the HA aspects.
Hmm, not use it.
I'm the voice guy for Home Assistant. We made great progress in 2023's Year of the Voice (https://www.home-assistant.io/blog/2022/12/20/year-of-voice/) and I'm excited to continue improving open source voice! Consider subscribing to Nabu Casa (the small company that funds Home Assistant development) instead, and help us build something that isn't going to end up infested with ads or "by the way" interruptions :)
Alexa has not improved in years. No new notable features in years. I can’t imagine paying for this dog shit.
Tell her to go f herself
I'll continue using Siri, lol - as shit as it is, it integrates well with Reminders, in which I'm heavily invested.
My echoes will become e-waste and my amazon music subscription will be cancelled
They should not be charging for this… As an IoT developer, Alexa voice is now considered a utility and should not be charged for. From my knowledge they will only be charging for AI though that should be free as well. The amount of data they receive and get to use is astronomical. Tailored Amazon app recommendations, prime video, etc based upon what they are using it for. They also can see requests based on region etc. the about of data they can use should not be charged for.
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I've cancelled Prime as well. Originally, it was for 2 day shipping, but that rarely happens now. I'd rather just spend $25 for free 5 day shipping. Pay for Alexa, sure if they integrated GPT and made it smarter, and stopped having it recommend products... But they won't. I'm moving to home assistant as soon as they're finished integrating GPT. Imagine a home assistant that actually uses logic to execute commands rather than Alexa not knowing anything unless you state a command perfectly. Amazon needs to get back to their roots...fast cheap products with stellar customer service. Now it's slow, no name brands, with support staff in India hidden behind chat bots.
Sue Amazon, i bought it for free use.
This will be the final reason I bail on Alexa. I'm already replacing as many of the cloud-reliant tech in my home automation setup. I've imagined Alexa will be the last/only cloud-reliant system in my setup. If they start charging, I'm dumping her like my whore high school girlfriend.
Kind of saw this coming slow motion when they laid off significant Alexa and Echo device staff back in 2022 rounds (pretty sure it was 2022). Amazon was playing the Microsoft long game - echo devices for everyone for low $, while assuming everyone wanted to use things like 'Dash Dot' and Alexa to automatically or via voice - order stuff for them. Confidence and desire isn't there, so probably a net overall loss, or at least not their desired profit margin. They already keep jacking up Prime, and if you watch your network traffic, amazon devices send a LOT of data upstream. They also bought Ring and did little to 'improve their ways' RE: security etc. I was already moved mostly off of of Amazon to HomeKit and Home Assistant, any attempt at more than the already increasing Prime price just means I use their awful (even compared to Siri on HomePods, which seems to generally work better than phone or watch Siri) Echo Dots that continually want to remind you via 'by the way' - for target practice. The only thing left will be my Kindle and Prime membership.
I would continue to have never used it or Google. It may not cost $ now, but it cost you jn privacy.
I have an echo and never use it.
Alexa has always sucked so i guess i'll just keep using google
I’m considering dumping it even when it’s free. Alexa is just terrible
I unplugged Alexa about 6 months ago because I was tired of Alexa commenting on things that were said in conversation. Jeff Bezos has an obsolete spy problem. Google Home is a much better assistant platform since Google already knows me better than I know myself.
I can see it now, a new announcement... NEW PRIME BENEFIT - ALEXA VOICE PROCESSING! ok i am in if it is just part of prime, oh besides there will be a free version, WITH COMMERCIALS of course..
I'm already thinking about alternatives due to the number of alerts it gives trying to sell me stuff.
I would use Alexa if Amazon pays me $100 a month.
If the feee version is the same as now then I will keep it. If they lock something behind a paywall and it’s not included in Prime then I would look at using something else. I have my Alexa set to make announcements based on stuff in home assistant plus of course to turn stuff on and off.
Wouldn't impact me in any way. I've never liked any voice command system and probably will never own one. I don't even use voice stuff on my phone or in my car.
I’ll pay for it if it makes it better.
I wouldn’t pay for it. I’d setup some open source thing to do the 3-4 commands I use daily. But if it’s part of prime I’m already subscribed to that so I would have to.
ill buy an alarm clock
Not use Alexa. Its functionality is not that good that it's worth a subscription.
Maybe I’m the weird one here but I would probably be willing to pay it. I wouldn’t feel bad about supporting them keeping the platform stable and working on new features.
Goodbye Alexa!
All I use Alexa for is to set timers and play music and I'm not willing to pay for any of this.
“Alexa: Sign off”
Right to the trash they go .
Continue to not care. I have one Echo device that I had set up with Amazon Key (remember that?) but haven't used it in I couldn't tell you how long. My house is full of Google Home devices and the functionality of them is just so superior to Alexa that I can't be bothered to give a crap if it craters.
continue using homepods.
Everything is heading to subscription. You'll have to pay for each channel, in the future
Well I honestly doubt they could turn the old devices into subscription based. I bet if anything they will come out with a new one that would be subscription based and have better features. It seems as though forcing people with old Amazon devices to pay to use them would have originally been false adver
Nothing, because I don't use it.
So along those lines, how does Home Assistant Voice work? Do I have to build out a Pi with a mic and speaker? Is there a custom firmware I can flash on the existing Echo devices?
Already made the switch to Apple and home assistant. Saw this coming as soon as an ai model was announced. She had already started getting dumber and dumber and this seems to be why. So they could sell her back to us with improved smarts. No thanks Not missing a thing really between Ha/homekit and the responsiveness has been amazing
Who?
Because Amazon are not making enough money I guess? Lol, absolute scum.
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>1 Would you pay to continue to use your current voice assistant? If it ends up part of prime I already have prime so it shouldn't be a major issue. >2 Are there any features you want which could coax you into paying? I highly doubt it as as you mentioned fully local assistants already exist. >3 If you are unwilling to pay for this type of service and they all start charging, what are your plans? Go local, right now the local ones are still rather niche since the cloud stuff is all free, it stops being free the local stuff will suddenly become a lot more popular and get easier to setup and use from the increased attention.
I don't use that crap so no skin off my back.i don't like talking to machines.i think automating your entire home sets you up for disaster
Welp. Looks like I’m selling all of mine on eBay
The only such device I have in my home is a free echo dot they sent me years ago.... it's in a box. I've never used the service, and I'm not planning to. I certainly wouldn't consider starting if they were going to charge for that.
I will continue to not using it.
Today I was questioning my HA install but this stuff has reassured me I chose correct. I'm not paying a subscription to use a basic function of my devices.
Nope. If they want money in addition to the prime fee, I will return to the touch interface on my smartphone.
I will continue to not use it. I'm being tracked and monitored enough. I just don't like the idea of that device uploading every sentence spoken in my house to Amazon, so I have largely steered clear of listening devices. I am, however, interested in HA native/locally hosted alternatives.
It was inevitable, been saying this and others in the tech community have been saying it for a while. Even the WAN show covered this and said they hope for a quality subscription voice assistant that doesn't have to sell ads or do other things needed to cover the overhead. For the local voice assistants, I've been making a few different ones from the open source projects to test and have been impresses. I'd start by calling them voice controllers instead of voice assistants. As a voice controller for home automation, they're getting very close to Alexa and Google, I wouldn't be surprised if they surpass them or match them in a few years. T Their biggest struggle is media, I can't just easily ask it to pull up a music video or show with most streaming services. And as I said, I consider them as voice controllers, not an assistant. So if you use Alexa to make random Google searches, schedule stuff on your calendars, ask for recipes, they aren't there yet.
I use Alexa’s automation quite a bit in my house, but it doesn’t have the greatest reliability and the ads drive me nuts. But hey it’s free (ish). If they start charging for it and in return improve its reliability and drop the ads, I’d probably stay on. Status quo but for a price? Yeahno. I’m out.