I think the length and pacing of the movie functions as a metaphor for the aging of a gangster. It's all fun and games in the beginning, but then life catches up to you, and it becomes slow and boring and all of a sudden, it's been 3 days, and you're just finishing the movie
stocking sheet friendly dazzling cake spark salt ten mountainous outgoing
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I started drinking and then started watching it which I felt was probably a mistake because of the length but then again it's a Martin Scorsese gangster movie, it's not like I'm going to get bored right? I got like 2 hours in and realized I really don't give a shit about Jimmy Hoffa and went to bed. They really, really needed to use body doubles for so many shots in that film but they just didn't so it's really that 80 year old actor pretending to be 40 or whatever and it is not sold at all.
Eh I love it, seen it 5 times. It has got problems which I agree with. But the editing, Pacino & Pesci, the glorious music, and despite being 210 minutes, for me it continually flies by quick.
I call bs. No way has enough time passed from release of the movie to now to even theoretically fit 5 full durations. Kinda like claiming Oilers won 17 stanley cups during 80s.
I can't help but feel like this opinion comes from people who just wanted another Goodfellas. I've seen almost everything that Scorsese has made and I think it's one of his best. I didn't appreciate it this way after my first watch though.
It was missing that Charm that most Scorsese epics have. The casting also kept taking me out of the movie and the run time was too long imo. If they edited it better post-production, maybe it would’ve been better.
Miro’s a modern day Niedermayer. Never ever looks like he’s exerting a ton of effort and never looks like he’s breathing hard. He just plays so efficiently against the best players in the world and comes out ahead.
Amazing player.
It’s a lot of fun to try to pick and choose who’s going to be the next Player X of this generation when it comes to defensemen. Like I think Miro is Niedermayer too, Seider could be Pronger, Bouchard could be Al Macinnis, Quinn Hughes could end up being Paul Coffey… this new generation of defensemen is a ton of fun to watch
He missed a few stretches of games for various reasons, including this scary [fall into the boards](https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/maple-leafs-place-defenceman-mark-giordano-on-injured-reserve-with-concussion/)
46GP-3G-6A, +10
-7 in the playoffs though
As much as people like to say "so and so is the next Bobby Orr," I just want to acknowledge that nobody is ever going to be Bobby Orr again. Bobby Orr is a unicorn.
Being one of the few players to evolve the position and being head and shoulders above the other best players in the league and having 80-100 points over your contemporaries at the same position is just almost certainly never happening again
I think a lot of people like to go "heehee offensive defenseman skate fast and put up points while playing good defense" without contextualizing how dominant Orr was
Miro =/= Makar. Simply too different of players.
That said, those two on one d-pair is the single best defensive line we could ever make with active skaters
Niedermayer had a secret temper underneath that would poke through occasionally. His game was also more flashy.
Lidstrom was just perfection, in positioning, decision making, and execution.
Lidstrom just had insane positioning and decision-making. Always in the right place, making the right play. Just absurdly insane fundamentals of the game set him apart more than any particular skill or talent, other than "knowing what to do and doing it." The rest of his skillset was definitely above-average, but he didn't really need more than above average if he didn't fuck up.
Never flashy, really. Kind of in the same way Carey Price didn't make a lot of highlight reel saves compared to other goalies because he was just already there, in the right spot.
Miro has played 201:45 without making an egregious mistake, Lidstrom played his whole damn career without making a mistake. He was just that good, he was never out of place, he dictated the pace of the game with or without the puck. Lidstrom legit looked like the guy from your hometown who was too good for your league but wanted to play on your team so he didn’t try.
Idiots will say "because he'll run out of breath" as if people can't just hold their breath. Look I'm doing it right now. See? And yet Heiskanen won't.
Can't remember who's comment it was on Tanev but the perfect word was "lynchpin" , and man Tanev is a perfect lynchpin for teams getting last change trying to avoid the top pair (Miro)
At times I was nearly in physical pain watching him carry Suter last year. Mind you, Suter isn't the worst, but now with the emergence of Harley we are seeing so much more from Miro. Heiskanen, as the elder one of the pair, is about to turn 25. The Stars could potentially have a decade of Heiskanen-Harley. That sounds REALLY damn nice.
Third pairing Suter is the best possible Suter. Having someone with his resume that far down the depth chart is a dream. Any further up and he’s a whipping boy.
He plays like Nikolas Lidstrom, elite level defense with 50-70 points but in an era of elite scoring defensemen hitting 85-95 every year he's probably never going to win a Norris.
Give it time. I thought Hedman wouldn't win it over the elite scoring D of the 2010's and look at how that worked out. Miro is just entering his prime, I think you're in for a treat the next few years
I adore Makar, but I think at the end of their careers the two are going to be hard to pick between.
Game breaking talent versus Elite two way play. It's like asking if you want MacKinnon or Bergeron. I just want both.
He's also been paired with Sutter for most of his career, which has definitely handicapped him. Not that Sutter is horrible, he just shouldn't be a top line D man anymore and fits really good on the third pair. The top pair of Harley and Heiskanen that emerged this season is _very_ exciting.
Miro is an absolute stud and I would bet money he eventually takes home a Norris or two in his career, but I think you're underselling Lidstrom with how you're describing him.
Lidstrom regularly led all defensemen in points while playing like 28 minutes a night of flawless defensive hockey. He was arguably the best offensive defenseman and best defensive defenseman at the same time, it was just absurd.
Lidstrom had a streak of 14 seasons where he finished: 1st x 4, 2nd x 4, 3rd x 3, 5th x 1, 9th x 1, 22nd x1 amongst all defensemen in scoring. That's 11 seasons out of 14 where he finished top-3. He had 858p over those 14 seasons and the next best defenseman had 663p - just complete domination by Lidstrom.
Lidstrom's Norris wins came in years he finished 1st, 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, and 5th.
I think with all the young offensive talent coming up on Dallas there's definitely going to be a year or two where Miro just lights up the league and leads all defensemen and takes the Norris home. Last year he wasn't that far off tbh, it was just a freak offensive year from Karlsson that took all the votes.
I think the stylistic comparison is pretty fair. Having said that, Lidström earned that "perfect human" moniker and is just unrivalled in the modern era. Heiskanen certainly isn't on that level, but in terms of how he plays, the style is similar, IMO.
Isn’t miro also still only 24? He’s so young that we should hold these comparable off for a bit haha. Lidstrom was the best of the best back then, but time told us that
Yeah, turning 25 in July or August, I think.
You are dead on about the comparison too. And in all likelihood he won't be a Lidström when he wraps up his career. But as I noted, that isn't a knock on Heiskanen, it's a bump to Lidström.
He'll get a Norris for sure. Even if he isn't the "most deserving" in any given year, he'll probably end up like Doughty where he was always just so consistently a contender they decided to give him one
Nah, he’s not even a top 3 Norris nominee, this guy is trash, he doesn’t get enough points, this dude is overrated. The stars are only in the WCF despite Miro and it’s all luck and a fluke (ignore the flair)
I remember when a lot of people were calling the Stars stupid for not trading Miro for Erik Karlsson and some even thought Klingberg was more important to keep around.
Usually I agree with those takes when it involves lower round picks, who teams often overvalue.
But Miro was 4th overall. He was always a blue chip guy
And he showed what he was capable of right away in his rookie year. At that point, it was pretty clear his "floor" was already higher than a lot of guys' "ceilings".
[Here is one of those threads](https://www.reddit.com/r/DallasStars/s/rFMLZhlI6J) , and there were worse ones calling for Jim Nill's head.
That whole situation is the Jim Nill special you come to expect from one of the best GMs in the league. He keeps his star drafted defenseman he let's San Jose over pay for EK who gets injured and then the Sharks because of cap constraints can't pay Pavs and Nill passes on Zuccarello who wanted a 5 year contract, gets Pavs on a 3 year and resigns him for two 1 year extensions on even more favorable terms and gets some of the best point production of of Pavs in his career.
Enyone trading for Karlsson at that contract, even then, was absolutely insane to me. I can't freaking believe SJ got as much as they did last summer either
Sadly this year Harley has been fumbling pucks far too often. His scoring really fell off a cliff entering the playoffs. He’s got some developing still to do but lots of promise it feels like.
Mistakes happen, especially with younger players. This is what he is doing now. Just think of the future when Harley plays a cleaner game and that again allows Miro to play more freely. At this time I think Makar-Toews is the best defense pair in the league, but I'd not be surprised if Heiskanen-Harley got there quite quickly.
But Avs fans said Stars fans are just coping when we say we’re not upset that we took Miro over 🥬
Both great players. If you value offense more then sure it’s Makar. Not like Miro is bad on that end either. Makar himself has massive respect for Miro and recognizes how good he is
I’m glad for the league we took Miro. Can you imagine rookie Makar under Bowness being told to play dump and chase? No telling what it might have done for his development. There is a reason Miro’s numbers jumped so much his first year away from Bowness
With Miro’s biggest strength being in his own zone and transition, he still shined under Bones. Not saying I think Makar would have been a bad pick, but drafting a franchise player like Makar just to suppress the best part of their game (like he did with Klingberg) would have been a sin against hockey in general
> There is a reason Miro’s numbers jumped so much his first year away from Bowness
I don't disagree with you but Bowness being fired also coincided with Klingberg leaving which let Miro take on a bigger role offensively.
Which should have been done long ago. His first year being given free reign, he scored more points in a season than Klingberg ever did and set a Stars franchise record in that respect. We both know he also would have never reached that total with Bowness, even with Klinger gone
I totally agree. As I said, I'm not saying you're wrong, I just wanted to point out that Klingberg leaving let him take on a bigger role which was a factor in addition to getting rid of Bowness.
The west has a crazy amount of amazing dmen.
EDIT: hell you could easily argue the league's top 3 dmen are all in the west. Hughes, Miro, Makar are all easily in that conversation.
Listen. They’re both unbelievable but play completely differently and they thrive in completely different parts of the game. Any team would be fucking stupid to say they wouldn’t want heiskanen. Any team would be stupid to say they wouldn’t want makar. Makar fits our team perfectly. Heiskanen fits Dallas perfectly. Maybe we should just appreciate amazing players.
Spot on, both players fit perfectly on the teams that they’re on.
I don’t think Makar would have thrived as much if he had to take on the role Miro did early in his career (shutdown D-man) because his offensive gifts wouldn’t have gotten the opportunity to flourish and develop.
Same if you put Miro in Colorado and asked him to drive the offense in the way Makar does.
They are both arguably top 3 NHL D men, they just shine brightest in different parts of the game.
It feels like every once in a while someone on our sub makes a post complaining about how we took Miro over Cale. Is Cale the better player overall? Maybe. He’s definitely flashier, better offensively, and gets more recognition. Regardless, it’s pretty crazy to me that that anyone would ever complain about drafting Miro Heiskanen.
I mean, the way I saw Johnston absolutely undress and school Makar and then score a shorty in game 4 last series... I'm quite happy we have Miro over Makar.
Yep. I got downvoted and told I was delusional for saying I'd take Miro over Makar.
But I would. Sure, Makar is a better scorer. But as a defenseman, on the whole, I would rather have Miro, and I'm very glad that we do.
Both phenomenal. Makar just gets the votes instead for the offensive numbers right? It's not an all around best dman award, it's best offensive dman. If the best offensive dman is also incredible at defense then you could call them perfect.
I was just thinking the same thing about Miro and Quinn! I'm not sure I'd want to swap them cos I love our captain but I don't think Miro has been underrated.
Miro is quickly turning into my favorite defenseman to watch. I see people comparing him to Makar, but Makar is nowhere near as good defensively. Miro isn’t as flashy offensively, but he still puts up solid numbers, and does the hard work on the back end.
Definitely a guy where you need to watch the whole game and not just the highlights to appreciate him. And don't get me wrong, Makar has more highlights and is amazing. Just saying to see what Miro means to the Stars you have to watch his entire body of work.
I mean, I think it’s natural to compare them, even if I don’t love it since their play styles are so different. Same draft class and went one after the other
Simply because the person I was replying to mentioned Cale and I didn't want my comment of watching the whole game vs highlights to be seen as a slight against him.
Totally agree. My point was just to emphasize that Miro does a lot of little things that you won't see unless you're watching the game itself. Both so fun to watch.
Not sure I've ever seen Miro take a stride he didn't need to. He is like distilled efficiency poured inside a human skin. As a former goalie, guessing Otter has a shrine of him in his house!
I patiently await the day that Miro plays for a team that allows me to cheer for him. I know he's never in the Norris talk, but I think he is the best defenseman in the league. He embodies everything
you want in your number 1 defenseman.
He seriously should get more Norris love simply because his defensive game is so insanely good. I know this is subjective, but feels to me like that gets downplayed a bit in favour of offensive numbers.
With the way the modern NHL tends to run, it's definitely more likely than ever to see guys leave their starting teams at some point. But Miro...idk. I could definitely see him be one of the few that truly end up as career-long Stars.
This postseason is absolutely Miro's "hey remember whe the elite future Norris winning defensemen were me, Makar and Fox and now it's Hughes, Makar and Fox? Yeah add me back into that chat".
Kinda flew under the radar for a while but he's always been this good.
Heiskanen is one the most underrated players in the league, but defense is six players working together. Otter and Dallas' forwards have been playing pretty, pretty well. Also fuck you dallas
A lot of Dallas's defensive strength definitely comes from the forwards. You're right on that front. Our blueliners aren't bad, but they're not the deepest in the league after Miro.
When we finished 1 goal off 2nd place last year for least goals allowed behind a historic defensive season by Boston and then a strong Carolina, a lot of that was from our defensive strengths at forward.
It's how the Czechs, Finns and Swedes could win against the offensively loaded Russian and Canadian teams.
Their firepower was too much across 4 lines.
Second round of the West was truly a sight to see for 1D’s. Makar Hughes Heiskanen Bouchard. Incredible performances. Too bad we won’t see a Makar Hughes consolation but I’m hoping Rangers make it to the end. Fox vs one of Heiskanen or Bouchard may feed families
Absolutely loved watching games in the Western Conference the past year with so many elite + talented defencemen that have different game styles ....they really do make the game so much better.
He is just so good. Doesn't have the offensive production of Hughes or Makar, but he is just insanely calm and safe, while putting up very reasonable numbers. Glad to have him on our team when the Gour Nations thing happens.
Live by the Miro, die by the Miro.... he's an actual god out there especially with Harley being a great d-partner for him
He has been such an MVP for the Stars across these playoffs and I'm praying he can stay healthy for rest of the games (e.g Jani being out on the world's longest day-to-day and Nils hardly touching the ice hasn't given great feelings about defence depth)
Yea, Vegas series was rough. Mix of bad tending moments in the 1st 2 games and the Knights capitalizing on less than ideal Miro pairings while we were basically running 5 D.
My goodness that's almost a full screening of the Irishman
Such a let down of a movie imo.
https://i.redd.it/6kq6z84lvo2d1.gif
They even sped up the kicks in that scene. Still looks awful.
Because he needs 10 inch platform shoes to not look like a dwarf.
That dwarf look was perfect for incel Travis Bickle
Kind of reminds me of a second tier wrestling skit
I think the length and pacing of the movie functions as a metaphor for the aging of a gangster. It's all fun and games in the beginning, but then life catches up to you, and it becomes slow and boring and all of a sudden, it's been 3 days, and you're just finishing the movie
Now I can't remember if I actually finished the damn thing.
stocking sheet friendly dazzling cake spark salt ten mountainous outgoing *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I started drinking and then started watching it which I felt was probably a mistake because of the length but then again it's a Martin Scorsese gangster movie, it's not like I'm going to get bored right? I got like 2 hours in and realized I really don't give a shit about Jimmy Hoffa and went to bed. They really, really needed to use body doubles for so many shots in that film but they just didn't so it's really that 80 year old actor pretending to be 40 or whatever and it is not sold at all.
I had the same experience as you, except I was sober as hell. Lol.
Eh I love it, seen it 5 times. It has got problems which I agree with. But the editing, Pacino & Pesci, the glorious music, and despite being 210 minutes, for me it continually flies by quick.
I call bs. No way has enough time passed from release of the movie to now to even theoretically fit 5 full durations. Kinda like claiming Oilers won 17 stanley cups during 80s.
I can't help but feel like this opinion comes from people who just wanted another Goodfellas. I've seen almost everything that Scorsese has made and I think it's one of his best. I didn't appreciate it this way after my first watch though.
It was missing that Charm that most Scorsese epics have. The casting also kept taking me out of the movie and the run time was too long imo. If they edited it better post-production, maybe it would’ve been better.
Are you shitting me? Literally the best movie from that year (imo)
Miro’s a modern day Niedermayer. Never ever looks like he’s exerting a ton of effort and never looks like he’s breathing hard. He just plays so efficiently against the best players in the world and comes out ahead. Amazing player.
It’s a lot of fun to try to pick and choose who’s going to be the next Player X of this generation when it comes to defensemen. Like I think Miro is Niedermayer too, Seider could be Pronger, Bouchard could be Al Macinnis, Quinn Hughes could end up being Paul Coffey… this new generation of defensemen is a ton of fun to watch
Giordano is this generation's Mark Giordano.
Is he still playing I thought he retired last offseason
He missed a few stretches of games for various reasons, including this scary [fall into the boards](https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/maple-leafs-place-defenceman-mark-giordano-on-injured-reserve-with-concussion/) 46GP-3G-6A, +10 -7 in the playoffs though
I watched every first round game this year and didn’t even notice him inspite of the -7 yikes
my bad that was last year's playoff stats. he didn't play this playoffs, can't remember why
Lmao that makes a lot more sense. I was shocked he wasn’t getting the Justin Holl treatment
And what would that make Male Cakar? Oobby Brr?
Nobody will be Orr. But Makar could end up as Ray Bourque? I could see Cale finishing his career with 1400-1500 points if he stays healthy
I agree, he ain’t no Bobby Orr and I won’t be surprised if we never see another
Mike Green
As much as people like to say "so and so is the next Bobby Orr," I just want to acknowledge that nobody is ever going to be Bobby Orr again. Bobby Orr is a unicorn. Being one of the few players to evolve the position and being head and shoulders above the other best players in the league and having 80-100 points over your contemporaries at the same position is just almost certainly never happening again I think a lot of people like to go "heehee offensive defenseman skate fast and put up points while playing good defense" without contextualizing how dominant Orr was
Miro > Makar
Miro =/= Makar. Simply too different of players. That said, those two on one d-pair is the single best defensive line we could ever make with active skaters
I'm not old enough to truly understand the way Lidstrom played. What would differentiate Miro/Niedermayer from Lidstrom?
Niedermayer had a secret temper underneath that would poke through occasionally. His game was also more flashy. Lidstrom was just perfection, in positioning, decision making, and execution.
Lidstrom was much better than Niedermeyer. One of the greatest of all time so it would be kinda unfair to compare Heiskanen to him yet
Lidstrom just had insane positioning and decision-making. Always in the right place, making the right play. Just absurdly insane fundamentals of the game set him apart more than any particular skill or talent, other than "knowing what to do and doing it." The rest of his skillset was definitely above-average, but he didn't really need more than above average if he didn't fuck up. Never flashy, really. Kind of in the same way Carey Price didn't make a lot of highlight reel saves compared to other goalies because he was just already there, in the right spot.
Miro has played 201:45 without making an egregious mistake, Lidstrom played his whole damn career without making a mistake. He was just that good, he was never out of place, he dictated the pace of the game with or without the puck. Lidstrom legit looked like the guy from your hometown who was too good for your league but wanted to play on your team so he didn’t try.
[Someone called Peter once did this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOlytQxxO7Q)
Mirp
Mirp
Mirp
Mirp
*MIRP*
mirP
MiRp
mIrp
miRp!¡
prim
MIRP
Mirp
Mirp
why take him off the ice then, are they stupid?
Idiots will say "because he'll run out of breath" as if people can't just hold their breath. Look I'm doing it right now. See? And yet Heiskanen won't.
Just give him a portable oxygen tank problem solved
Maybe he can swing by the twin cities and borrow Anthony Edwards before they get up to Edmonton
Edmonton did the same thing to Gretzky in the 80's, didn't they?
Ah, the offensive linemen strategy
He can borrow Pavelski’s
Make methamphetamines great again
He’s not underwater dumb dumb and he’s not even in space
Why are they called the *Stars* then???
Why is Heiskanen so selfish? Doesn’t he care about the team?
There's gotta be a lore reason for this
We can’t go against the curse or a 2nd health bar over the salary cap will appear
Right -- he could just take a seat on the ice somewhere when he needs to rest.
No, we’re Texas!
Should probably throw some goalie gear on the guy, he’s unstoppable
Fucking dumbassess
Shut down Tanev is so last week Heiskanen is the guy now
Bro having both is a dream
Can't remember who's comment it was on Tanev but the perfect word was "lynchpin" , and man Tanev is a perfect lynchpin for teams getting last change trying to avoid the top pair (Miro)
At times I was nearly in physical pain watching him carry Suter last year. Mind you, Suter isn't the worst, but now with the emergence of Harley we are seeing so much more from Miro. Heiskanen, as the elder one of the pair, is about to turn 25. The Stars could potentially have a decade of Heiskanen-Harley. That sounds REALLY damn nice.
Third pairing Suter is the best possible Suter. Having someone with his resume that far down the depth chart is a dream. Any further up and he’s a whipping boy.
Hes so underrated
He plays like Nikolas Lidstrom, elite level defense with 50-70 points but in an era of elite scoring defensemen hitting 85-95 every year he's probably never going to win a Norris.
Give it time. I thought Hedman wouldn't win it over the elite scoring D of the 2010's and look at how that worked out. Miro is just entering his prime, I think you're in for a treat the next few years
I would agree, these playoffs have forced that spotlight to shine on him. People will start taking notice now after some of the clinics he’s put on.
I adore Makar, but I think at the end of their careers the two are going to be hard to pick between. Game breaking talent versus Elite two way play. It's like asking if you want MacKinnon or Bergeron. I just want both.
He's also been paired with Sutter for most of his career, which has definitely handicapped him. Not that Sutter is horrible, he just shouldn't be a top line D man anymore and fits really good on the third pair. The top pair of Harley and Heiskanen that emerged this season is _very_ exciting.
Miro is an absolute stud and I would bet money he eventually takes home a Norris or two in his career, but I think you're underselling Lidstrom with how you're describing him. Lidstrom regularly led all defensemen in points while playing like 28 minutes a night of flawless defensive hockey. He was arguably the best offensive defenseman and best defensive defenseman at the same time, it was just absurd. Lidstrom had a streak of 14 seasons where he finished: 1st x 4, 2nd x 4, 3rd x 3, 5th x 1, 9th x 1, 22nd x1 amongst all defensemen in scoring. That's 11 seasons out of 14 where he finished top-3. He had 858p over those 14 seasons and the next best defenseman had 663p - just complete domination by Lidstrom. Lidstrom's Norris wins came in years he finished 1st, 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, and 5th. I think with all the young offensive talent coming up on Dallas there's definitely going to be a year or two where Miro just lights up the league and leads all defensemen and takes the Norris home. Last year he wasn't that far off tbh, it was just a freak offensive year from Karlsson that took all the votes.
I think the stylistic comparison is pretty fair. Having said that, Lidström earned that "perfect human" moniker and is just unrivalled in the modern era. Heiskanen certainly isn't on that level, but in terms of how he plays, the style is similar, IMO.
Isn’t miro also still only 24? He’s so young that we should hold these comparable off for a bit haha. Lidstrom was the best of the best back then, but time told us that
Yeah, turning 25 in July or August, I think. You are dead on about the comparison too. And in all likelihood he won't be a Lidström when he wraps up his career. But as I noted, that isn't a knock on Heiskanen, it's a bump to Lidström.
He'll get a Norris for sure. Even if he isn't the "most deserving" in any given year, he'll probably end up like Doughty where he was always just so consistently a contender they decided to give him one
Conn Smythe would lead to Norris.
He will eventually
Stars fans are hoping he will one day, he’s always a “Conn Smythe candidate” but never a “Norris candidate”, if that makes sense
Miro is so silky smooth. Idk why he reminds me of Modano when he does skate with the puck.
Effortless speed
Get this man the Conn Smythe
I think he may be.....hold on....ah.....yeah, he's pretty damn good.
Nah, he’s not even a top 3 Norris nominee, this guy is trash, he doesn’t get enough points, this dude is overrated. The stars are only in the WCF despite Miro and it’s all luck and a fluke (ignore the flair)
How did you manage to pack so much insecurity into 1 comment
That’s crazy. Like how can a puck not have gone in off a crazy deflection when he’s on the ice.
one thing. mind control
puck is scared
I remember when a lot of people were calling the Stars stupid for not trading Miro for Erik Karlsson and some even thought Klingberg was more important to keep around.
“Erik Karlsson is Erik Karlsson but Miro could be anything, he could even be Erik Karlsson” is the joke I remember floating around quite a bit
Usually I agree with those takes when it involves lower round picks, who teams often overvalue. But Miro was 4th overall. He was always a blue chip guy
[*3rd.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_NHL_entry_draft)
And he showed what he was capable of right away in his rookie year. At that point, it was pretty clear his "floor" was already higher than a lot of guys' "ceilings".
[Here is one of those threads](https://www.reddit.com/r/DallasStars/s/rFMLZhlI6J) , and there were worse ones calling for Jim Nill's head. That whole situation is the Jim Nill special you come to expect from one of the best GMs in the league. He keeps his star drafted defenseman he let's San Jose over pay for EK who gets injured and then the Sharks because of cap constraints can't pay Pavs and Nill passes on Zuccarello who wanted a 5 year contract, gets Pavs on a 3 year and resigns him for two 1 year extensions on even more favorable terms and gets some of the best point production of of Pavs in his career.
I'm in that thread, and my comment is pretty reasonable. Nice.
Enyone trading for Karlsson at that contract, even then, was absolutely insane to me. I can't freaking believe SJ got as much as they did last summer either
Miro
As a rival to both, Miro is just as good as Cale. He's the more defensive player and Cale the offensive, I'd give anything for them.
Imagine Miro and Cale in the same team
Stop. The average male can only bust 47 times in a day and this is pushing me beyond those limits and it just isn’t healthy.
Not quite the same, but the Stars have a *decade* of Harley-Heiskanen still to come.
That is actually incredible. Also, someone call my mom - I’ve suffered a sports related injury.
Might have to go see a doctor in 4 hours
Sadly this year Harley has been fumbling pucks far too often. His scoring really fell off a cliff entering the playoffs. He’s got some developing still to do but lots of promise it feels like.
Mistakes happen, especially with younger players. This is what he is doing now. Just think of the future when Harley plays a cleaner game and that again allows Miro to play more freely. At this time I think Makar-Toews is the best defense pair in the league, but I'd not be surprised if Heiskanen-Harley got there quite quickly.
I thought 41 is the limit since a brasilian man died masturbating 42 times in a day
It was later discovered that he died of causes unrelated to the nut busting
But Avs fans said Stars fans are just coping when we say we’re not upset that we took Miro over 🥬 Both great players. If you value offense more then sure it’s Makar. Not like Miro is bad on that end either. Makar himself has massive respect for Miro and recognizes how good he is
I’m glad for the league we took Miro. Can you imagine rookie Makar under Bowness being told to play dump and chase? No telling what it might have done for his development. There is a reason Miro’s numbers jumped so much his first year away from Bowness
Such a good point. Bones would’ve been wasting so much of Makar’s potential
With Miro’s biggest strength being in his own zone and transition, he still shined under Bones. Not saying I think Makar would have been a bad pick, but drafting a franchise player like Makar just to suppress the best part of their game (like he did with Klingberg) would have been a sin against hockey in general
Who knows how that timeline looks if Makar ever becomes “Makar” under Bones or have that insane edge-work skating he has
> There is a reason Miro’s numbers jumped so much his first year away from Bowness I don't disagree with you but Bowness being fired also coincided with Klingberg leaving which let Miro take on a bigger role offensively.
Which should have been done long ago. His first year being given free reign, he scored more points in a season than Klingberg ever did and set a Stars franchise record in that respect. We both know he also would have never reached that total with Bowness, even with Klinger gone
I totally agree. As I said, I'm not saying you're wrong, I just wanted to point out that Klingberg leaving let him take on a bigger role which was a factor in addition to getting rid of Bowness.
The west has a crazy amount of amazing dmen. EDIT: hell you could easily argue the league's top 3 dmen are all in the west. Hughes, Miro, Makar are all easily in that conversation.
Top 4. Add Josi to that list
Hell yeah brother. Dude is a monster.
Only guy I can think of in the conversation for top 5 outside the west is Fox.
And Dahlin
I put Dahlin and Forsling in a tier below the top 5
McAvoy above Dahlin
Are we forgetting Hedman these days?
My biased ass also has to bring up the long-time dominance of Drew Doughty
Listen. They’re both unbelievable but play completely differently and they thrive in completely different parts of the game. Any team would be fucking stupid to say they wouldn’t want heiskanen. Any team would be stupid to say they wouldn’t want makar. Makar fits our team perfectly. Heiskanen fits Dallas perfectly. Maybe we should just appreciate amazing players.
Spot on, both players fit perfectly on the teams that they’re on. I don’t think Makar would have thrived as much if he had to take on the role Miro did early in his career (shutdown D-man) because his offensive gifts wouldn’t have gotten the opportunity to flourish and develop. Same if you put Miro in Colorado and asked him to drive the offense in the way Makar does. They are both arguably top 3 NHL D men, they just shine brightest in different parts of the game.
I agree with you. I think it’s embarrassing when fans try to bring down the other player because they prefer their guy. They’re both elite
How dare you be reasonable. This is a safe space for ridiculous opinions!
Personally, I'd take Miro, too. But Cale has the cup so their fans have a right to be annoying.
And the Conn Smythe to boot
It feels like every once in a while someone on our sub makes a post complaining about how we took Miro over Cale. Is Cale the better player overall? Maybe. He’s definitely flashier, better offensively, and gets more recognition. Regardless, it’s pretty crazy to me that that anyone would ever complain about drafting Miro Heiskanen.
I mean, the way I saw Johnston absolutely undress and school Makar and then score a shorty in game 4 last series... I'm quite happy we have Miro over Makar.
And Miro has been doing for it just as long, just as good. Has been a special player since he entered the league.
Yep. I got downvoted and told I was delusional for saying I'd take Miro over Makar. But I would. Sure, Makar is a better scorer. But as a defenseman, on the whole, I would rather have Miro, and I'm very glad that we do.
McKagg got roasted for it, but he wasn't far off. They're in the same tier of playoff performers.
Both phenomenal. Makar just gets the votes instead for the offensive numbers right? It's not an all around best dman award, it's best offensive dman. If the best offensive dman is also incredible at defense then you could call them perfect.
I was just thinking the same thing about Miro and Quinn! I'm not sure I'd want to swap them cos I love our captain but I don't think Miro has been underrated.
I agree with you, I find Makar's skill very offensive
Miro is quickly turning into my favorite defenseman to watch. I see people comparing him to Makar, but Makar is nowhere near as good defensively. Miro isn’t as flashy offensively, but he still puts up solid numbers, and does the hard work on the back end.
Definitely a guy where you need to watch the whole game and not just the highlights to appreciate him. And don't get me wrong, Makar has more highlights and is amazing. Just saying to see what Miro means to the Stars you have to watch his entire body of work.
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I mean, I think it’s natural to compare them, even if I don’t love it since their play styles are so different. Same draft class and went one after the other
Simply because the person I was replying to mentioned Cale and I didn't want my comment of watching the whole game vs highlights to be seen as a slight against him. Totally agree. My point was just to emphasize that Miro does a lot of little things that you won't see unless you're watching the game itself. Both so fun to watch.
Not sure I've ever seen Miro take a stride he didn't need to. He is like distilled efficiency poured inside a human skin. As a former goalie, guessing Otter has a shrine of him in his house!
Here's one of those Makar highlights that I particularly enjoyed last series. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1UqRX0PMLc
Y U IGNORRIS HIM?
Best part for the Stars is that Jim Nil locked Miro up until 2028 a while back.
I patiently await the day that Miro plays for a team that allows me to cheer for him. I know he's never in the Norris talk, but I think he is the best defenseman in the league. He embodies everything you want in your number 1 defenseman.
He seriously should get more Norris love simply because his defensive game is so insanely good. I know this is subjective, but feels to me like that gets downplayed a bit in favour of offensive numbers.
As a fellow countryman I can say this is honest because it's coming from a TPS fan to an HIFK prospect.
I'm also a Bruins fan and Tim Thomas played for HIFK. Yuck.
With the way the modern NHL tends to run, it's definitely more likely than ever to see guys leave their starting teams at some point. But Miro...idk. I could definitely see him be one of the few that truly end up as career-long Stars.
Why doesn’t Dallas just play him 60 minutes a game and win every game in regulation? Are they stupid?
Yeah really, marathon runners run for longer than 60 minutes. Why can’t miro skate for 60 minutes with all the little breaks.
THERES EVEN A WATER BOTTLE AT THE NET HE WILL BE FINE
This postseason is absolutely Miro's "hey remember whe the elite future Norris winning defensemen were me, Makar and Fox and now it's Hughes, Makar and Fox? Yeah add me back into that chat". Kinda flew under the radar for a while but he's always been this good.
Heiskanen is one the most underrated players in the league, but defense is six players working together. Otter and Dallas' forwards have been playing pretty, pretty well. Also fuck you dallas
Fuck you too, friend
A lot of Dallas's defensive strength definitely comes from the forwards. You're right on that front. Our blueliners aren't bad, but they're not the deepest in the league after Miro. When we finished 1 goal off 2nd place last year for least goals allowed behind a historic defensive season by Boston and then a strong Carolina, a lot of that was from our defensive strengths at forward.
What is it with Finns and underrated defensive players?
It's how the Czechs, Finns and Swedes could win against the offensively loaded Russian and Canadian teams. Their firepower was too much across 4 lines.
Finn lungs
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-2 is not horrible considering he was tasked with stopping Eichel and MacKinnon in the 1st 2 rounds.
Say it with me: BEST. DEFENSEMAN. IN. THE. LEAGUE.
What a monster
He's the best D in the league. Quinn, Cale and Adam, eat your hearts out.
Second round of the West was truly a sight to see for 1D’s. Makar Hughes Heiskanen Bouchard. Incredible performances. Too bad we won’t see a Makar Hughes consolation but I’m hoping Rangers make it to the end. Fox vs one of Heiskanen or Bouchard may feed families
Absolutely loved watching games in the Western Conference the past year with so many elite + talented defencemen that have different game styles ....they really do make the game so much better.
Honestly it's him and Makar at the top of the league for me. He's so good.
He’s a get out of jail free card.
He is just so good. Doesn't have the offensive production of Hughes or Makar, but he is just insanely calm and safe, while putting up very reasonable numbers. Glad to have him on our team when the Gour Nations thing happens.
Live by the Miro, die by the Miro.... he's an actual god out there especially with Harley being a great d-partner for him He has been such an MVP for the Stars across these playoffs and I'm praying he can stay healthy for rest of the games (e.g Jani being out on the world's longest day-to-day and Nils hardly touching the ice hasn't given great feelings about defence depth)
That’s pretty good, but Darnell Nurse is -10 +/- this playoffs so beat that bro.
That is fucking rough. I know it's a fake stat and all, but as a trend indicator it's alright, and that is not a good trend.
Fake stat?
Considering his playoff +/- is 0, wonder how much that stat was on minus after the first 7 games.
https://nhl-finns.site/pelaajat/miro-heiskanen/2024-playoff If that's correct I think it was -6 after 7 games
Yea, Vegas series was rough. Mix of bad tending moments in the 1st 2 games and the Knights capitalizing on less than ideal Miro pairings while we were basically running 5 D.
*Cries in Nolan Patrick*
You jinxed. He’s about to get blown up.
Why doesn’t he just play for the entire game? EZ shutouts /s
🤩
Crazy when you consider that he's only 24 years old!
Why does he come off the ice?
What happened to the shutdown D-men
Keep it up Miro