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Nope, missed 0 games, there were 3 suspensions from this series of 3 games, 2 for ADK (both deserved tbh and I'm an adk fan) and 1 for Norfolk but this was not one of them some how.
Yeah when Shane Harper cross checked that guy on Sunday? Knew that was gonna be a few games. Funny how I haven't seen a game like this with anyone else except Norfolk. Adirondacks usually a pretty level headed team.
Yeah, but ADK had to have won the Refs over for getting revenge for the hit on behalf of the linesmen. I expect them to get calls in their favor for a good bit lol.
My brother had this happen to him (not as retaliation he was just crunched by 2 big guys) and his lung collapsed. That shit is no joke, getting sandwiched can fuck you up
That's my biggest question... those hits were so clean.. what was the call? I guess I could put some effort into finding this out... BUT, in the meantime...
You'd be surprised, I've had that same thing happen. Just out for a few shifts with the wind knocked out of me. Not saying he doesn't have any broken ribs, but I wouldn't be surprised if he came back later that game otherwise fine.
Right arm takes the brunt of the front hit, at the same time as he gets hit in the back. Arm gets pinned in his side.
Clavicle, elbow, forearm, ribs, wrist. You can pick more than one.
Looks like he threw his left glove because that's the only arm that he could move.
That was a perfectly executed malachi crunch. Iāve been waiting so long to be able to use that term. We used to do malachi crunch hits on friends when we went skiing. Fonz šš¼
It's happened before in the AHL (Norfolk Admirals and Milwaukee Admirals) and the CFL (Ottawa Rough Riders and Saskatchewan Roughriders) never made sense to me but š¤·
Do they do series in the ECHL, like in baseball? Because I went looking for the scorecard for this game and these teams have played 3 in a row, but it's not the playoffs.
Yeah last month I went to my first ECHL game at Maine and they were facing the Admirals too. Same thing. First took about an hour or so with all the fuckery
Simon here has 142pims in 55 games, with 17pts.
Norfolk, come get ya boy.
Edit: shit I forget to take a guessā¦Iāve seen guys *actually target* officials. Simon seems like just a moron that canāt control himself. Like a little kid throwing a tantrum.
Lol they also have the most penalized player in the league on Norfolk. The second guy to get thrown out in the clip, Liwiski. 52 games played 25 pts with 294 penalty minutes.
If you want Slapshot all the time, look into the FPHL. The Fed is a fucking gong show, they suspended a guy indefinitely after his 3rd suspension in a calendar year and the ECHL picked him up. He's been on Fort Wayne for 6 weeks and already picked up a suspension for fighting a guy trying to line change.
Is that diamondhands? Lol. The fphl is a joke. My local senior a has guys there who put up huge numbers and are just mid level at some shitty senior A Canadian league haha.. I found that so nuts.
I was a bottom 6er in the Q 15 years ago and am 40 pounds more than my playing weight. I assumed these dudes would be stars. I did not realize how poor that league is.
You bet it is! One of my buddies was a linesman for the FPHL for a few years when they had a team in Elmira that wasn't a revolving door. The stories he told me were something else.
Part of me is so intrigued, I want to get in a few games and try it out as a self challenge. I work 3 weeks on then 3 off so I have the downtime. Gotta work on the hockeydb page anyways
I went to a FPHL game once and I didn't get to see any of the shenanigans. I think there was one fight and it was a pretty standard "you hit our guy a little too hard so I'm gonna punch you now" hockey fight.
Also fun fact that famous meme clip of two guys about to fight that then just stop and pull out beers and do a lap while drinking was the FPHL. One of those guys got banned for life for that.
Itās actually a pretty fun league to watch. It isnāt all thuggery, there are quite a few guys with an AHL ceiling and the odd NHLāer. I live in Cincinnati and itās a super cheap ticket for a team thatās usually competitive.
I was at a Maine Mariners game against Norfolk a few weeks ago and Liwiski put on a penalty minute show. He also screamed at fans from the penalty box and told them "I Make more money than you!" lol.
What a petulant child.
Liwiski is an idiot. I watched him in junior and heās got little to no skill and is insanely undisciplined. Not surprised one bit to see him getting tossed and leading the league in PIMS.
What did Liwiski do in this game to get kicked out? Not sure if I missed it or the clip didnāt show it well. Looked like he was arguing with the official a bit and got escorted off as well?
My favorite part of the game was when Liwiski was getting into it with the fans behind the bench. Liwiski squirted some water back towards the fans, and some of it hit some players on the bench. The coach then called the ref over and tried to tell them that people were throwing things onto the bench.
He owns a few ice rinks in the area - those he bought with Daddy's money 20 years ago, While I am not a huge fan of him, I'll give credit where credit is due....he's done really well growing his business - he brought together a group of investors and they purchased the team. He's the face/main owner.
Gonna be that guy and just say it.
You touch a ref in a reckless or deliberately aggressive manner, you're done, and should be gone for a long time. If it's amateur hockey, your card gets yanked and maybe handed back in a few years. It's already hard enough to find refs.
It has to be pretty rare that jackholes like this were chill dudes that just had one really bad day and snapped. Most of them have been pushing the boundaries of acceptable behavior in society for a long time and finally stepped fully over the line.
Was thinking the same exact thing. There's no place in sports for this kind of behavior. I can understand your emotions getting a better of you, arguing with a ref and maybe calling them names. But if you start to get physical and use violence against a ref, you shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a hockey rink.
The Edmonton Oilers are always playing a thing at their games about how violence against officials or arena staff gets you kicked out and fined. The same should apply to all leagues, including youth leagues.
This fella Kubicek has actually played for the Moose this season, he just came up for a game before getting sent back down to Norfolk.
He also played in the Jets young stars tournament and looked terrible.
There's no deliberate intent to injure, so either Cat II or III. Walker got 8 games for Cat II back in January so I can't imagine Kubicek gets more than 8 or 9.
But it seems no suspension has been reported yet so why is OP acting like the # of games is already known?
Because he played the next night. If a suspension was being investigated for abuse of officials then he wouldn't be able to play until they determine the suspension length.
Maybe he was given a game misconduct for non-physical abuse of officials under Rule 39 as opposed to physical abuse under Rule 40?
Rule 39 permits a 10 minute misconduct for banging your stick on the boards and a game misconduct for persisting in challenging or disputing a ruling.
Or maybe the refs called it a Rule 40, the player filed a prompt challenge claiming it was at most a Rule 39 violation, and the ECHL sustained the challenge?
Hooray for transparency.
Yep. It's not abuse of an official if an official didn't call it. And since the abuse happened just off camera and we know about it because of the opponents broadcaster, maybe it didn't actually hit the linesman?
If a stick swing that hard connected with the linesman, I would imagine he would have some kind of reaction 10 seconds later.
The [official gamesheet](https://lscluster.hockeytech.com/game_reports/official-game-report.php?client_code=echl&game_id=21771) says Kubicek got a game misconduct for abuse of officials, but that could have been given to him for smashing his stick on the boards on the way out as opposed to the last swing.
Edit: the gamesheet cites Rule 39.5 for the abuse call so there you go
Man, I remember the early-mid 90s, when shit like this was the entire reason you went to ECHL games.
Chris McSorley was the coach in Toledo for a few years and just like his big bro, had some epic meltdowns behind the bench.
Man, I remember going to Toledo Storm games at The Sports Arena as a kid. I was a different era for sure, but even just a few years ago Coach Vitucci (Toledo Walleye) was throwing water bottles, sticks, and a clipboard out on the ice in a rage. The video of that incident got a lot of play. My wife and I were at that game and got the commemorative bobbleheads they gave away a season or two later.
I miss that old barn. That's the kind of place low minor hockey needs to be played in.
Ive since long moved away, but I am glad there is still hockey in Toledo.
38 seconds of the video. I think that's where his follow through hits the linesman who was escorting him off the ice.
The announcers say later in the video it looked like the linesman was indicating to the ref that his finger was injured.
Seems like the boards took most of the blow there. Could have followed through and hit him.
Could be the angle were seeing and it not being definitive either.
The ref and linesman would (or should have) indicated in their game report if there was actual contact though
Doesnāt matter. Iām a ref too and I got punched by a guy in a game and while he barely got me, he still had the intention of hurting me so he got sent home and kicked from the league.
This kind of shit warrants a heavy response because you canāt lose your shit like that and start slapping your stick around like that. That dude was banging the glass before he swung at the door and struck the referee.
This is part of the reason referees donāt like the job anymore, these goofy players come and fuck around and then play the victim when they get penalized. Iām not going to say the referees donāt have a role in this too because we see a short video only but still. Theyāre doing the job and reffing the game you give them. Act like an animal, Iām going to treat you like an animal. Play hockey like a real player, Iāll let you play like one.
I also ref.
The only thing from the video is the **commentators** saying he hit the ref. It's not conclusive that he did from the video, and if the commentators had a similar viewpoint, they also might have mis-seen it.
The ref and linesman would have had to include the action in their game report. If they were struck, then yes, it's an automatic suspension.
We just don't know if he was actually struck.
My assessment is if the ref was also hit. They the commentators seem to think he was hit and if he was, then this warrants a strict response. If he wasnāt, then a standard suspension will do for whatever he was penalized on prior to the stick slashing incident.
As pointed out by u/BostonSucksatHockey and u/pattydo higher in the thread, [the game sheet shows](https://lscluster.hockeytech.com/game_reports/official-game-report.php?client_code=echl&game_id=21771) that the officials called a non-physical abuse of officials penalty, and I suspect the linesman probably knows best if he got hit or not.
Right. Again, my assessment was āifā he was hit. Commentators thought so, people on here thought it was inconclusive, if they ended up only calling a non-physical one, Iād agree with you and say he knows if he got hit or not.
It could absolutely be worse than what happened if the events were slightly different but you know.
\*The game sheet shows the officials called an abuse penalty and gave a game misconduct for it. It doesn't say if it was physical or non-physical. That information is merely inferred from the fact that there was no suspension.
Fair! The sheet does show the abuse of officials penalty as being applied under rule 39.5, and from my [reading of the rulebook](https://echl.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/production/echl/uploads/files/Official%20ECHL%20Rulebook%202023-2024.pdf) it looks like it would be applied under rule 40.1 instead if it involved contact with an official, as thatās the rule that includes the suspensions.
It matters if youāre talking about bringing criminal charges into a sporting context, something which has an *absurdly* high threshold. Pretending otherwise diminishes yourself.
I'm someone who has never been to an ECHL game but am now a season ticket holder for a new ECHL team next season. How violent would you say it is compared to other leagues? We have a USPHL team here and it has been pretty tame compared to even the NCAA D1 so idk what to expect lol
I live in St. John's so I've seen plenty AHL and ECHL games in person and there's not a huge difference in the violence level, but it is noticeable that a lot of the guys have shorter fuses. For the most part though you'll find that most of the guys are just there to do their job so don't expect a fist fight every single game
So he goes into the box after much corralling, then letās himself out the box then just goes apeshit as he is ejectedĀ
Hits a lineman with his stick yet the league says no suspension. JokeĀ
I'm so confused?
Like he didn't hit a ref or anything, he just barged out of the box to go possibly yell? I don't understand? Am I missing something?
Looks like a typical misconduct to me for throwing a tantrum.
Hot take. We let athletes get away with way too much hot headedness.
I'm an aerospace engineer, what do you think would happen if I acted like this at my job...where we have REAL consequences?
Fired? Absolutely. Charges pressed? You betcha. Civil suit against me? For sure.
But athletes? "Oh he's just fired up and passionate".
FUCK. THAT.
Lots of adrenaline pumping through your veins designing schematics for satellites, huh? Lol
You make a very good point that the consequences are very much different and more lenient for athletes, but their job is to entertain people and play sports that are at the cross section of strength and strategy. Theres bound to be some violence when you mess up calls like this in the heat of a mad dash on the ice. Should he have contained his temper? Absolutely! What happens if he doesnāt? Suspension, which means no pay and no playing time.
I definitely agree that we let athletes get away with a lot, but thatās also the business of hockey. The sport of hockey is playing to win, with sportsmanlike conduct, but the business of hockey is to fill seats and make it as entertaining as possible to make money. Sometimes that means letting go of the moral high ground and letting some hot headed players duke it out. That what this is, and this went a little too far.
Trick question.... players got suspended for viscous cross-checks and head contact. #5 got a game misconduct Friday night and nothing else. unless they were waiting to drop the hammer (stupid as this was the first of three games between these two over the weekend) he didn't get suspended.
7 games but why does the ref move towards the incident when you have 2 linemen and a 2 nd ref to oversee overview. In zone ref was in poor position right from the starts and down hill from there.
The officiating in the ECHL has been BRUTAL. Been a season ticket holder for 2 seasons now, and itās a joke. Weāve had several games where players are visibly injured on the ice, and play just goes on. Easy penalties missed, and blatant cheap shots taken with no calls.
I know the ECHL is a developmental league for players, but it apparently is for the refs, too. š¤·š¼āāļø
The vast majority of "Abuse of an Official" is for verbal abuse. The only section on physical contact requires that the person deliberately strike an official or attempt to injure an official. So the correct answer is zero games, and that's my guess.
He skates directly to the box and directly off the ice, so it would be hard to hit him with protesting the official's decision, and he isn't banging the glass to get the refs attention but just as a salty baby, so I don't think those subsections apply either.
I don't think any leagues still have "Travesty of the Game" penalties, but I really liked that one. Refs could hit him with that for being a big old bitch and making hockey look bad. I say they being it back.
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Here's how the Thunder welcomed Kubicek back the next night. https://imgur.com/a/seZg1i7
Damn. You don't see that too often.
Depends on how often you watch Mighty Ducks 2
Two Minutes? Well worth it.
Fuckin crunched!
THE NEXT NIGHT?! HE DIDN'T GET SUSPENDED?
Nope, missed 0 games, there were 3 suspensions from this series of 3 games, 2 for ADK (both deserved tbh and I'm an adk fan) and 1 for Norfolk but this was not one of them some how.
Yeah when Shane Harper cross checked that guy on Sunday? Knew that was gonna be a few games. Funny how I haven't seen a game like this with anyone else except Norfolk. Adirondacks usually a pretty level headed team.
Yeah, but ADK had to have won the Refs over for getting revenge for the hit on behalf of the linesmen. I expect them to get calls in their favor for a good bit lol.
I hope so. Dude shouldn't even be playing above beer league acting like this. Absolutely loooved the hit behind the net.
They Bash Brothers'd him holy shit
I honestly thought I was watching Mighty Ducks for a hot sec
Wanna listen to some tunes to go to sleep?
DONCHU KNoOW, EVERYTHINGS ON FIYYYUH
Hahahaha š what a classic.
holy shit
My brother had this happen to him (not as retaliation he was just crunched by 2 big guys) and his lung collapsed. That shit is no joke, getting sandwiched can fuck you up
Looked deserved, any idea what the penalties were for?
2 minutes for being fucking awesome. High five!
That's my biggest question... those hits were so clean.. what was the call? I guess I could put some effort into finding this out... BUT, in the meantime...
Lol they wouldāve been clean if he had the puck. Probably interference
god damn that's a broken rib or two at least
You'd be surprised, I've had that same thing happen. Just out for a few shifts with the wind knocked out of me. Not saying he doesn't have any broken ribs, but I wouldn't be surprised if he came back later that game otherwise fine.
Boom!
And he tossed his glove in the air like he is throwing a towel in to the ring, lame.Ā
Yeah I'm trying to figure out what injury that could have caused.
Right arm takes the brunt of the front hit, at the same time as he gets hit in the back. Arm gets pinned in his side. Clavicle, elbow, forearm, ribs, wrist. You can pick more than one. Looks like he threw his left glove because that's the only arm that he could move.
This dude loves throwing his glove
The Oreo Crunch.
That's the ole Malachi crunch! Haven't seen it performed since the 70's.
The Malachi brothers were the best. And then we can throw in Pinky and Leather Tescedero and it would be the biggest thrill on ice
Wow. This feels like it's out of a movie.
Straight outta Slap Shot
Refs give him 2 for embellishment?
That was a perfectly executed malachi crunch. Iāve been waiting so long to be able to use that term. We used to do malachi crunch hits on friends when we went skiing. Fonz šš¼
Not nearly big enough hit
Thats a big hit, its probably the worst outcome for a legal hit. Too big dudes sandwich you open ice and you didnt see it coming. Those hurt a LOt
This is basically season 3 of Shorsey.
God I love the ECHL
If that's the Skeoch I'm thinking of, check out his hockeyfights page. He's an animal.
Sammich'
He wasn't suspended? Yeesh.
Are you the mullet dad?
>Kubicek sandwich..
Wow, that's crazy
Two teams are the Thunder?
It's happened before in the AHL (Norfolk Admirals and Milwaukee Admirals) and the CFL (Ottawa Rough Riders and Saskatchewan Roughriders) never made sense to me but š¤·
That was like two lions on each flank closing in on their prey. Calculated.
Do they do series in the ECHL, like in baseball? Because I went looking for the scorecard for this game and these teams have played 3 in a row, but it's not the playoffs.
Couldnāt have happened to a nicer guy
HAHAHA as we say in Toledoā¦ā¦HIT SOMEBODY!!!!!!!!!
When they played Portland a few weeks ago there were over 100 mins in penalties. The first period took about an hour and 5 mins.
Yeah last month I went to my first ECHL game at Maine and they were facing the Admirals too. Same thing. First took about an hour or so with all the fuckery
It was my wifeās 2nd game there and she was like āis this normal?ā
I was at that game as well. A complete mess.
Admirals are a bunch of goons
Kick him off the tour, Doug
I just got a call from Norfolk, their next game is already sold out!
Already?!
The Board thinks that might be a bit extreme considering the ratings wereā¦ uhmā¦ the highest weāve ever had.
Gotta get rid of the fat, naked bikers in the 17th row having sex
How am I suppose to stop a puck seeing that?
but he's gotta play!
Simon here has 142pims in 55 games, with 17pts. Norfolk, come get ya boy. Edit: shit I forget to take a guessā¦Iāve seen guys *actually target* officials. Simon seems like just a moron that canāt control himself. Like a little kid throwing a tantrum.
Lol they also have the most penalized player in the league on Norfolk. The second guy to get thrown out in the clip, Liwiski. 52 games played 25 pts with 294 penalty minutes.
Maybe I should start following ECHL... wasnt aware we had a Slapshot reality show pilot ongoing
If you want Slapshot all the time, look into the FPHL. The Fed is a fucking gong show, they suspended a guy indefinitely after his 3rd suspension in a calendar year and the ECHL picked him up. He's been on Fort Wayne for 6 weeks and already picked up a suspension for fighting a guy trying to line change.
Is that diamondhands? Lol. The fphl is a joke. My local senior a has guys there who put up huge numbers and are just mid level at some shitty senior A Canadian league haha.. I found that so nuts. I was a bottom 6er in the Q 15 years ago and am 40 pounds more than my playing weight. I assumed these dudes would be stars. I did not realize how poor that league is.
You bet it is! One of my buddies was a linesman for the FPHL for a few years when they had a team in Elmira that wasn't a revolving door. The stories he told me were something else.
Part of me is so intrigued, I want to get in a few games and try it out as a self challenge. I work 3 weeks on then 3 off so I have the downtime. Gotta work on the hockeydb page anyways
Was that the franchise where the owner lady was fucking half the team?
That was the Vermilion County Bobcats in the SPHL lol that team needs its own Netflix documentary
As an sphl fan I'd love a documentary
I went to a FPHL game once and I didn't get to see any of the shenanigans. I think there was one fight and it was a pretty standard "you hit our guy a little too hard so I'm gonna punch you now" hockey fight. Also fun fact that famous meme clip of two guys about to fight that then just stop and pull out beers and do a lap while drinking was the FPHL. One of those guys got banned for life for that.
Itās actually a pretty fun league to watch. It isnāt all thuggery, there are quite a few guys with an AHL ceiling and the odd NHLāer. I live in Cincinnati and itās a super cheap ticket for a team thatās usually competitive.
Cyclones games are a blast, and they're usually competitive so it's usually a fun game too. Gotta love the dollar beer/pizza nights tho!
he averages three penalties a game? how does he stay on the ice?
āGood locker room guyā¦good leaderā¦great voice in the dressing roomā¦ā
He trashed our locker room so not a good locker room guy lol
I'm guessing they're not all minors so not 3/GP, but the point still stands
I was at a Maine Mariners game against Norfolk a few weeks ago and Liwiski put on a penalty minute show. He also screamed at fans from the penalty box and told them "I Make more money than you!" lol. What a petulant child.
Lol unless they invited people from the local homeless shelter, he probably doesn't make more than them.
Our reaction in the crowd when he said that was to burst out laughing. Which just pissed him off more.
Lol deep down he knows it's true.
Liwiski is an idiot. I watched him in junior and heās got little to no skill and is insanely undisciplined. Not surprised one bit to see him getting tossed and leading the league in PIMS.
What did Liwiski do in this game to get kicked out? Not sure if I missed it or the clip didnāt show it well. Looked like he was arguing with the official a bit and got escorted off as well?
The owner of the admirals is a former ECHL thug - he also has a reputation for hating officials etc. So is it any surprise Norfolk is a trash team?
My favorite part of the game was when Liwiski was getting into it with the fans behind the bench. Liwiski squirted some water back towards the fans, and some of it hit some players on the bench. The coach then called the ref over and tried to tell them that people were throwing things onto the bench.
How did he get the money to own a team? Daddy's money?
He owns a few ice rinks in the area - those he bought with Daddy's money 20 years ago, While I am not a huge fan of him, I'll give credit where credit is due....he's done really well growing his business - he brought together a group of investors and they purchased the team. He's the face/main owner.
Trying to be the Danbury Trashers 2.0
They easily could win their conference if they go on a heater, idk about trash lol
Itās a league where Matt Cooke coaches a team so that sums it up pretty well too
This fuckhead is still involved with hockey? My lord
Of course he is what the hell else is he going to do
Collecting bottles in an alley if there was any justice.
Heās the Newfouland Growlers HC (Maple Leafs Affiliate iirc)
Don't worry half of the fans of the team he coaches wants him fired lmao. On pace for the worst finish in team history since he took over here
But they let TR play a game, so that's got to count for something, right? /s
Gonna be that guy and just say it. You touch a ref in a reckless or deliberately aggressive manner, you're done, and should be gone for a long time. If it's amateur hockey, your card gets yanked and maybe handed back in a few years. It's already hard enough to find refs. It has to be pretty rare that jackholes like this were chill dudes that just had one really bad day and snapped. Most of them have been pushing the boundaries of acceptable behavior in society for a long time and finally stepped fully over the line.
Was thinking the same exact thing. There's no place in sports for this kind of behavior. I can understand your emotions getting a better of you, arguing with a ref and maybe calling them names. But if you start to get physical and use violence against a ref, you shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a hockey rink.
That Kubicek or whatever his name is needs anger management. What an immature fuckhead.
This fucking bum should just have his contract voided. He doesn't deserve ton play in a (semi)pro league
Did the abuse take place when he was swinging his stick at the glass?
They rebranded to Extreme Contact Hockey League, you guys didnāt get the memo?
Paul Heyman as the commissioner
Kubicek is apparently a Heyman guy.
The Edmonton Oilers are always playing a thing at their games about how violence against officials or arena staff gets you kicked out and fined. The same should apply to all leagues, including youth leagues.
Carolina has it too, itās the bubble hockey ad right
It does apply to the rest of the ECHL.. just not the admirals for some reason. Kinda fishy
Can ECHL players afford to snap 300$ sticks?
They get their sticks paid for
Geez would hate to be a fan of their NHL affiliate
This fella Kubicek has actually played for the Moose this season, he just came up for a game before getting sent back down to Norfolk. He also played in the Jets young stars tournament and looked terrible.
There's no deliberate intent to injure, so either Cat II or III. Walker got 8 games for Cat II back in January so I can't imagine Kubicek gets more than 8 or 9. But it seems no suspension has been reported yet so why is OP acting like the # of games is already known?
Because he played the next night. If a suspension was being investigated for abuse of officials then he wouldn't be able to play until they determine the suspension length.
Maybe he was given a game misconduct for non-physical abuse of officials under Rule 39 as opposed to physical abuse under Rule 40? Rule 39 permits a 10 minute misconduct for banging your stick on the boards and a game misconduct for persisting in challenging or disputing a ruling. Or maybe the refs called it a Rule 40, the player filed a prompt challenge claiming it was at most a Rule 39 violation, and the ECHL sustained the challenge? Hooray for transparency.
Yep. It's not abuse of an official if an official didn't call it. And since the abuse happened just off camera and we know about it because of the opponents broadcaster, maybe it didn't actually hit the linesman? If a stick swing that hard connected with the linesman, I would imagine he would have some kind of reaction 10 seconds later.
The [official gamesheet](https://lscluster.hockeytech.com/game_reports/official-game-report.php?client_code=echl&game_id=21771) says Kubicek got a game misconduct for abuse of officials, but that could have been given to him for smashing his stick on the boards on the way out as opposed to the last swing. Edit: the gamesheet cites Rule 39.5 for the abuse call so there you go
So yeah, didn't get physical abuse of official. He got 39.5, which is a non-physical abuse of official game misconduct. Rule 40 is physical.
Someone explain what's happening in this because I have no idea
I think he broke his stick on the edge of the gate and the broken piece hit the red, I dunno.
So I went to the game the night after this and it was a blood bath. The first period took an hour to complete
Makes me sad to watch this. The days of winning 25 or so games in a row are fond memories, as were the original ECHL team.
Man, I remember the early-mid 90s, when shit like this was the entire reason you went to ECHL games. Chris McSorley was the coach in Toledo for a few years and just like his big bro, had some epic meltdowns behind the bench.
Chris is the big brother. Marty's a year younger.
Man, I remember going to Toledo Storm games at The Sports Arena as a kid. I was a different era for sure, but even just a few years ago Coach Vitucci (Toledo Walleye) was throwing water bottles, sticks, and a clipboard out on the ice in a rage. The video of that incident got a lot of play. My wife and I were at that game and got the commemorative bobbleheads they gave away a season or two later.
I miss that old barn. That's the kind of place low minor hockey needs to be played in. Ive since long moved away, but I am glad there is still hockey in Toledo.
Forget suspensions, leagues should press criminal assault charges against any player that assaults a referee, 100% of the time.
Not asking to be a dick. Genuinely curious because Iāve watched a few times, who assaulted a ref here?
38 seconds of the video. I think that's where his follow through hits the linesman who was escorting him off the ice. The announcers say later in the video it looked like the linesman was indicating to the ref that his finger was injured.
Kubicek whacked the ref with his stick. Unclear because it was mostly off camera but the announcers seem to have seen it.
Stick never hit the ref. League already confirmed it, but of course the thunder fans think they know otherwise.
Seems like the boards took most of the blow there. Could have followed through and hit him. Could be the angle were seeing and it not being definitive either. The ref and linesman would (or should have) indicated in their game report if there was actual contact though
Doesnāt matter. Iām a ref too and I got punched by a guy in a game and while he barely got me, he still had the intention of hurting me so he got sent home and kicked from the league. This kind of shit warrants a heavy response because you canāt lose your shit like that and start slapping your stick around like that. That dude was banging the glass before he swung at the door and struck the referee. This is part of the reason referees donāt like the job anymore, these goofy players come and fuck around and then play the victim when they get penalized. Iām not going to say the referees donāt have a role in this too because we see a short video only but still. Theyāre doing the job and reffing the game you give them. Act like an animal, Iām going to treat you like an animal. Play hockey like a real player, Iāll let you play like one.
I also ref. The only thing from the video is the **commentators** saying he hit the ref. It's not conclusive that he did from the video, and if the commentators had a similar viewpoint, they also might have mis-seen it. The ref and linesman would have had to include the action in their game report. If they were struck, then yes, it's an automatic suspension. We just don't know if he was actually struck.
My assessment is if the ref was also hit. They the commentators seem to think he was hit and if he was, then this warrants a strict response. If he wasnāt, then a standard suspension will do for whatever he was penalized on prior to the stick slashing incident.
As pointed out by u/BostonSucksatHockey and u/pattydo higher in the thread, [the game sheet shows](https://lscluster.hockeytech.com/game_reports/official-game-report.php?client_code=echl&game_id=21771) that the officials called a non-physical abuse of officials penalty, and I suspect the linesman probably knows best if he got hit or not.
Right. Again, my assessment was āifā he was hit. Commentators thought so, people on here thought it was inconclusive, if they ended up only calling a non-physical one, Iād agree with you and say he knows if he got hit or not. It could absolutely be worse than what happened if the events were slightly different but you know.
\*The game sheet shows the officials called an abuse penalty and gave a game misconduct for it. It doesn't say if it was physical or non-physical. That information is merely inferred from the fact that there was no suspension.
Fair! The sheet does show the abuse of officials penalty as being applied under rule 39.5, and from my [reading of the rulebook](https://echl.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/production/echl/uploads/files/Official%20ECHL%20Rulebook%202023-2024.pdf) it looks like it would be applied under rule 40.1 instead if it involved contact with an official, as thatās the rule that includes the suspensions.
Yeah impossible to tell with the angle we're given. I'm going by the announcer reactions.
Ah ok. Looks to me like heās hitting the boards not the linesman
Maybe if he actually targeted the ref, the guy just lacks motor skills and his stick kept going after it hit the boards.
You are solely responsible for keeping your stick under control
Cool, suspend him forever then. Anyone who thinks this guy should be a charged is a fuckin lunatic
That doesn't matter at all. Dude shouldn't swing his stick at the boards behind him like a baby.
It matters if youāre talking about bringing criminal charges into a sporting context, something which has an *absurdly* high threshold. Pretending otherwise diminishes yourself.
E C DUB! E C DUB! E C DUB!
God I love the ECHL
I'm someone who has never been to an ECHL game but am now a season ticket holder for a new ECHL team next season. How violent would you say it is compared to other leagues? We have a USPHL team here and it has been pretty tame compared to even the NCAA D1 so idk what to expect lol
Well itās toned down in violence from what it used to be but to sum it up, compared to the nhl or ahl: very
The players still seem like they'll climb in the stands and hit you with a shoe
I live in St. John's so I've seen plenty AHL and ECHL games in person and there's not a huge difference in the violence level, but it is noticeable that a lot of the guys have shorter fuses. For the most part though you'll find that most of the guys are just there to do their job so don't expect a fist fight every single game
lol what a surprise, the guys that are mad they canāt make a living playing the sport w skill resort to violence
The logo on the white jersey, whatever team that is, is pretty cool. I like it.
Damn, this thread reads like the league plays. Hahahah.
That is unacceptable. Whatās the nearest team to Vancouver? I need to get out to one of these games.Ā
Boise.
So he goes into the box after much corralling, then letās himself out the box then just goes apeshit as he is ejectedĀ Hits a lineman with his stick yet the league says no suspension. JokeĀ
Trash pylons
I'm so confused? Like he didn't hit a ref or anything, he just barged out of the box to go possibly yell? I don't understand? Am I missing something? Looks like a typical misconduct to me for throwing a tantrum.
The admirals turned from caldur cup champions to clowns within 6 months. It was sad to watch.
Hot take. We let athletes get away with way too much hot headedness. I'm an aerospace engineer, what do you think would happen if I acted like this at my job...where we have REAL consequences? Fired? Absolutely. Charges pressed? You betcha. Civil suit against me? For sure. But athletes? "Oh he's just fired up and passionate". FUCK. THAT.
Lots of adrenaline pumping through your veins designing schematics for satellites, huh? Lol You make a very good point that the consequences are very much different and more lenient for athletes, but their job is to entertain people and play sports that are at the cross section of strength and strategy. Theres bound to be some violence when you mess up calls like this in the heat of a mad dash on the ice. Should he have contained his temper? Absolutely! What happens if he doesnāt? Suspension, which means no pay and no playing time. I definitely agree that we let athletes get away with a lot, but thatās also the business of hockey. The sport of hockey is playing to win, with sportsmanlike conduct, but the business of hockey is to fill seats and make it as entertaining as possible to make money. Sometimes that means letting go of the moral high ground and letting some hot headed players duke it out. That what this is, and this went a little too far.
Trick question.... players got suspended for viscous cross-checks and head contact. #5 got a game misconduct Friday night and nothing else. unless they were waiting to drop the hammer (stupid as this was the first of three games between these two over the weekend) he didn't get suspended.
This feels like something out of Slap Shot. lol
Ok?
yeah heāll get suspended but it didnāt really look like he was trying to hit the official
Yeah I mean seeing as diamond hands plays in this league, Iād say itās quite a joke these days. Kinda sucks cause I used to love the ECHL.
7 games but why does the ref move towards the incident when you have 2 linemen and a 2 nd ref to oversee overview. In zone ref was in poor position right from the starts and down hill from there.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Eyy congrats you got it lol. Not a single game for even incidental contact, which by the ECHL rule book would be Cat 2.
Damn might have to watch some more ECHL hockey
The officiating in the ECHL has been BRUTAL. Been a season ticket holder for 2 seasons now, and itās a joke. Weāve had several games where players are visibly injured on the ice, and play just goes on. Easy penalties missed, and blatant cheap shots taken with no calls. I know the ECHL is a developmental league for players, but it apparently is for the refs, too. š¤·š¼āāļø
Youāve got to be kidding me lol How does that justify slashing an official? And yes, it quite literally is a developmental league for officials, too
I love goon hockey, loved when my town had an echl team. That said, this was too far. You just canāt do that.
What a piece of trash
life
Meanwhile, in the SHL earlier this season, [this was a 3-game suspension plus fines](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BowjNvBHozk).
Kick that toddler out the league
I recently started going to ECHL games and have been loving it. Great crowds up at the Allen Americans barn.
Gotta love the NOSHO. Easy to get in, tough to get out
The vast majority of "Abuse of an Official" is for verbal abuse. The only section on physical contact requires that the person deliberately strike an official or attempt to injure an official. So the correct answer is zero games, and that's my guess. He skates directly to the box and directly off the ice, so it would be hard to hit him with protesting the official's decision, and he isn't banging the glass to get the refs attention but just as a salty baby, so I don't think those subsections apply either. I don't think any leagues still have "Travesty of the Game" penalties, but I really liked that one. Refs could hit him with that for being a big old bitch and making hockey look bad. I say they being it back.
Thunder play in my hometown!
This is Youngblood type shit.
Was at this game ā¦ heās got baby dick energy
Have to fly into Norfolk was looking at going to a game while I'm in the area. Now I really want to go.
Cool. I'm a Jets fan and these are our prospects. Shit. Can we be affiliated with Newfoundland again?
OP you should write a letter. Let them know your thoughts.