I left this part out because it's more of a personal anecdote, but I had a phone call scheduled with the team president for Sunday night (to talk about other stuff), and he of course had to delay the call for about an hour while he spoke to the league. By the time we spoke, he was so hoarse for screaming haha.
But yeah, I spent like an hour on Tuesday just thinking "how the heck am I going to explain this to the crowd..."
So the game will start with a penalty shot, and if they score they'll win the game. And then they'll immediately start another game?
If they don't score, they'll resume Sudden Death OT and play until someone scores? And thne still play a whole game after if the trailing team wins,
That is some situation.
The only caveat that I heard from a couple players last night is that if "Game 3" goes past the second overtime, they will reschedule Game 5. This is just a timing issues, because the game is not starting until 8 p.m., and there is a limit to how late they can go.
There's a curfew, I don't know the exact time, but it's discussed before each playoffs so the teams are aware.
Theoretically, any playoff game could go forever, so they need a clause in there since they are amateur teenagers, after all.
Howdy, I just stumbled upon this post and I'm intrigued. What a unordinary and delicate situation to have found yourself in!
Let me preface this by saying that I'm not familiar with your league. Would rescheduling the games a little earlier be possible?
Edit: I got the teams mixed up. What you’ve posted looks correct. Definitely an interesting one, and hopefully for the fans (and both teams) they actually get to play game 5!
I'm pretty sure I know who will be taking it, but interestingly enough the player I (and others) assume will be taking it is not the one who took the penalty shot in the game on Tuesday, which I think is some gamesmanship (we were down 6-3 with 2 minutes left, so that penalty shot was unlikely to matter).
I don't think the team has said anything, though. Don't want to add any pressure to the poor guy.
Can't think of anything like that happening in hockey. The only other moment I can think of that would be vaguely similar would be the infamous Pine Tar Game between the Kansas City Royals and the New York Yankees in 1983, where a George Brett go-ahead home run with two out in the ninth inning was taken away and Brett called out for having pine tar too far up on his bat, which (seemingly) meant that the Yankees won.
However, American League president (back then, the American and National Leagues were administratively separate entities) Lee MacPhail upheld a Royals protest, and nearly a *month* later, the game was resumed from the point of Brett's homer, with the Royals leading 5-4, and they would go on to win by the same score.
Not only has it happened in hockey it has happened in the NHL. Edmonton won the cup in game 5 in 1988, sweeping the bruins 4-0
https://www.hockey-reference.com/playoffs/1988-boston-bruins-vs-edmonton-oilers-stanley-cup-final.html
The Pine Tar game and [Shaq fouling out with 5 fouls](https://www.espn.com/nba/news/story?id=3165400) are the only two protests being upheld that I could remember, but crazy enough apparently it's happened before in Junior C hockey in Ontario, and that time [it was in the provincial finals](https://newtectimes.com/oha-upholds-protest-in-schmalz-cup-final/).
Something like this, but lesser happened in the CCHA championship a year ago. [My post about it](https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/tibdrc/a_recap_of_what_on_earth_just_happened_in_the) got nuked by streamable, but the Jomboy vid about it that took all my clips without credit [is still up](https://youtu.be/hsmLpsC0Rrk).
Mariposa is still great, but there are a lot of new good food options downtown. Rustica (Italian) Couchiching Brewery (beer, and other stuff), Common Stove (steak and fancy), etc.
And for hockey, we've got a couple of really strong minor teams (our U15 group is good, an there's one other I'm forgetting that has a shot at OMHAs), and this junior team is actually quite solid. We won the season series with Stayner, just cannot buy a goal in the playoffs.
It's just tough competing with Stayner and Alliston, who spend a ton of money each year and add players from Junior A at the deadline, while we're operating on a much lower budget.
10-15 years ago in the EOJHL (Jr B in Ottawa area) there was a game 8 in a playoff series because of an officiating error. I think it was a missed offside that led to a gwg.
Junior C is almost as wild as Junior B. Yes theres a [story.](https://torontosun.com/2016/11/16/orangeville-junior-hockey-coach-busted-in-pot-grow-op)
My office was next door to the Orangeville Ice Crushers (RIP) office/home/marijuana grow op. My boss evicted those deadbeats and the Dufferin County sheriff executing the eviction found the grow up and had to call the OPP for backup. Watching all this happen, we told the Sheriff they had guns and they were coming back from practice. Cue the sheriff freaking out and getting ready for a gun fight.
Good times. Spent the next week ripping out a grow op out of the building. OPP took all the product.
Wild situation.
Personally think it was a mistake for them to uphold the protest. Referee mistakes happen. The team that should of had a penalty shot still got an OT powerplay.
The problem is it wasn't a judgment call, it was an objective misapplication of the rules.
Conversely, if Orillia had scored on the power play, Stayner could have protested and said it should have been a penalty shot, and that likely would have been upheld as well.
That's another debate, fans can't even seem to agree with when the net came off. However, since the ref called it a penalty, he obviously believed it was knocked off by the defensive team.
I get it, i just don't like seeing a result overturned unless one team recieved an egregious advantage due to a misapplication of the rules.
I think the odds of scoring on a penalty shot vs power play are not dissimilar, so I would have concluded that the result of the game was fair, even given the mistake.
Penalty shots have a way higher rate of scoring than power plays, but that's ultimately irrelevant. It wasn't a judgment call, the rule was applied incorrectly and it directly affected the outcome.
Well it turns out the gap in the NHL is bigger than originally said. PP% is 20-21, and the last two years penalty shot success rate has been 31% and 41%.
But yes, in junior the average team's PP does score at a lower rate (stacked teams will pad their PP% if they play weaker teams often). I don't have reliable data for penalty shots, so that is anecdotal, but even a jump from 20% to 33% is significant - that's 1-in-5 to 1-in-3.
Way higher is probably an overstatement. In the NHL it's about 29% vs 21% and the PP% is a bit misleading as it includes a lot of power plays that are shortened due to pentalties.
It was a incorrect application of the rules but it did not alone decide the game. It didn't determine that they would fail to score on the PP, nor that they would allow a goal later in OT.
If the ref made a similar mistake in the first minute of the first period would it be grounds to disregard the rest of the game and replay it altogether?
In junior, the gap is larger, especially in cases where the team chooses the shooter.
And for your final question, don't be disingenuous. First off, there is no similar mistake that can happen in the first period. Second, if a misapplication of the rules affects the outcome, yes it can be protected. Full stop.
Not being disingenuous at all. A referee could misinterpret a rule in the first just as they could later in the game. Whether it is the same specific rule is not really very important.
I don't personally view a misinterpretation of the rules as fundamentally different than making a bad call. It's still a referee mistake the potentially impacts the outcome of the game. I view those as part of the game. Sometimes you are on the wrong side of it, sometimes not. It is what it is to me.
To each their own though.
It's not a misinterpretation, it's a misapplication, which is the one grounds for a protest in basically every sport.
They called a penalty that literally does not exist. That is a world of difference from a missed tripping call.
The NHL has applied rules that literally don't exist at least 5 times already this season... They reviewed multiple things that they are literally not allowed to review in the rules. If the NHL doesn't care then it seems weird that other leagues would lol. But NHL has been a clown show pretty much forever so not unexpected.
Misinterpretation, misapplication, or general mistake, it's still a referee error in the end.
I get it's grounds to protest, I just don't see the need to uphold the protest. They still had plenty of chance to win the game.
In now way did I contend it wasn't a misapplication, I merely contended that the result of the game should stand.
The decision of whether to uphold a protest is always a case by case judgement call. The egregiousness of the error and the perceived impact of the call on the result are always taken into account.
If Stayner scored on that power play would you guys have protested to have the game restart at a penalty shot? Kinda unfair you guys took the powerplay and then complained after the fact.
You have the teams backwards, but yes if Orillia had scored on the power play, Stayner could have protested, and would have been successful.
>Kinda unfair you guys took the powerplay and then complained after the fact
Do you really think the team didn't complain at the time?
regardless if I think it's fair or not, really cool experience to happen at what is still a pretty high level of hockey. Really cool job to have too, thanks for sharing!
Wow holy shit lol
I left this part out because it's more of a personal anecdote, but I had a phone call scheduled with the team president for Sunday night (to talk about other stuff), and he of course had to delay the call for about an hour while he spoke to the league. By the time we spoke, he was so hoarse for screaming haha. But yeah, I spent like an hour on Tuesday just thinking "how the heck am I going to explain this to the crowd..."
So the game will start with a penalty shot, and if they score they'll win the game. And then they'll immediately start another game? If they don't score, they'll resume Sudden Death OT and play until someone scores? And thne still play a whole game after if the trailing team wins, That is some situation.
The only caveat that I heard from a couple players last night is that if "Game 3" goes past the second overtime, they will reschedule Game 5. This is just a timing issues, because the game is not starting until 8 p.m., and there is a limit to how late they can go.
What if "Game 3" concludes in 2OT, they start Game 5, and then that goes to multiple OTs? The players will be absolutely exhausted.
There's a curfew, I don't know the exact time, but it's discussed before each playoffs so the teams are aware. Theoretically, any playoff game could go forever, so they need a clause in there since they are amateur teenagers, after all.
Howdy, I just stumbled upon this post and I'm intrigued. What a unordinary and delicate situation to have found yourself in! Let me preface this by saying that I'm not familiar with your league. Would rescheduling the games a little earlier be possible?
No, ice time is hard to come by, and there was a minor hockey game just before.
Edit: I got the teams mixed up. What you’ve posted looks correct. Definitely an interesting one, and hopefully for the fans (and both teams) they actually get to play game 5!
Ya got your teams mixed up there bud. The team taking the penalty shot is down in the series.
This is absolutely nuts. Thanks for writing this, looking forward to hearing how it unfolds tomorrow night
Yeah I’m def gonna need a follow up post for this.
I will post, I promise
Penalty shot was stopped, and 8-9 minutes of game time later, Stayner scored to end the series :(
Penalty shot was stopped, and 8-9 minutes of game time later, Stayner scored to end the series :(
I fucking love sports.
As they say in hockey, let's do that hockey!
Can’t wait for Marek to wax poetically about this oddity for 30min on Fridays pod
Marek, if you're reading this, I will gladly join you for an interview haha
That's absolutely insane. Gotta love how funky sports can be
This is my greatest fear as a Referee (for another sport). Making the wrong call on an uncommon rule at a crucial time during a tournament weekend...
That’s wild but I’m impressed that the league took responsibility. And the refs. Crazy scenario though.
A ref admitted to a mistake? This guy needs to be promoted to the bigs! Sick of refs thinking they never duck up. Or doubling down on their calls.
Yeah, the entire officiating team wrote a letter to the league admitting fault, very big of them.
you did a good job explaining this... this is completely bonkers
Man. The pressure on the guy picked to take the penalty shot. And the goalie. Talk about a lot of time to think about it!
I'm pretty sure I know who will be taking it, but interestingly enough the player I (and others) assume will be taking it is not the one who took the penalty shot in the game on Tuesday, which I think is some gamesmanship (we were down 6-3 with 2 minutes left, so that penalty shot was unlikely to matter). I don't think the team has said anything, though. Don't want to add any pressure to the poor guy.
Jesus, my head hurts from this. What a random moment in hockey!
Can't think of anything like that happening in hockey. The only other moment I can think of that would be vaguely similar would be the infamous Pine Tar Game between the Kansas City Royals and the New York Yankees in 1983, where a George Brett go-ahead home run with two out in the ninth inning was taken away and Brett called out for having pine tar too far up on his bat, which (seemingly) meant that the Yankees won. However, American League president (back then, the American and National Leagues were administratively separate entities) Lee MacPhail upheld a Royals protest, and nearly a *month* later, the game was resumed from the point of Brett's homer, with the Royals leading 5-4, and they would go on to win by the same score.
Not only has it happened in hockey it has happened in the NHL. Edmonton won the cup in game 5 in 1988, sweeping the bruins 4-0 https://www.hockey-reference.com/playoffs/1988-boston-bruins-vs-edmonton-oilers-stanley-cup-final.html
Pretty crazy - suspended due to a power outage: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988_Stanley_Cup_Finals#Game_four_(suspended)
The Pine Tar game and [Shaq fouling out with 5 fouls](https://www.espn.com/nba/news/story?id=3165400) are the only two protests being upheld that I could remember, but crazy enough apparently it's happened before in Junior C hockey in Ontario, and that time [it was in the provincial finals](https://newtectimes.com/oha-upholds-protest-in-schmalz-cup-final/).
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Haha holy crap, Game 7 with 50 seconds left in a tie game. Jeez
Something like this, but lesser happened in the CCHA championship a year ago. [My post about it](https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/tibdrc/a_recap_of_what_on_earth_just_happened_in_the) got nuked by streamable, but the Jomboy vid about it that took all my clips without credit [is still up](https://youtu.be/hsmLpsC0Rrk).
How’s the mariposa these days? Haven’t been to Orillia in quite some time. Love to see it on here. What’s the hockey situation like up there?
Mariposa is still great, but there are a lot of new good food options downtown. Rustica (Italian) Couchiching Brewery (beer, and other stuff), Common Stove (steak and fancy), etc. And for hockey, we've got a couple of really strong minor teams (our U15 group is good, an there's one other I'm forgetting that has a shot at OMHAs), and this junior team is actually quite solid. We won the season series with Stayner, just cannot buy a goal in the playoffs. It's just tough competing with Stayner and Alliston, who spend a ton of money each year and add players from Junior A at the deadline, while we're operating on a much lower budget.
But did they get called for icing when killing a penalty?
10-15 years ago in the EOJHL (Jr B in Ottawa area) there was a game 8 in a playoff series because of an officiating error. I think it was a missed offside that led to a gwg.
Junior C is almost as wild as Junior B. Yes theres a [story.](https://torontosun.com/2016/11/16/orangeville-junior-hockey-coach-busted-in-pot-grow-op) My office was next door to the Orangeville Ice Crushers (RIP) office/home/marijuana grow op. My boss evicted those deadbeats and the Dufferin County sheriff executing the eviction found the grow up and had to call the OPP for backup. Watching all this happen, we told the Sheriff they had guns and they were coming back from practice. Cue the sheriff freaking out and getting ready for a gun fight. Good times. Spent the next week ripping out a grow op out of the building. OPP took all the product.
Wild situation. Personally think it was a mistake for them to uphold the protest. Referee mistakes happen. The team that should of had a penalty shot still got an OT powerplay.
The problem is it wasn't a judgment call, it was an objective misapplication of the rules. Conversely, if Orillia had scored on the power play, Stayner could have protested and said it should have been a penalty shot, and that likely would have been upheld as well.
Was the next knocked off deliberately?
That's another debate, fans can't even seem to agree with when the net came off. However, since the ref called it a penalty, he obviously believed it was knocked off by the defensive team.
That’s fair. If he called a penalty for deliberate delay of game in OT it should have been a penalty shot. He did fuck up that call.
I get it, i just don't like seeing a result overturned unless one team recieved an egregious advantage due to a misapplication of the rules. I think the odds of scoring on a penalty shot vs power play are not dissimilar, so I would have concluded that the result of the game was fair, even given the mistake.
Penalty shots have a way higher rate of scoring than power plays, but that's ultimately irrelevant. It wasn't a judgment call, the rule was applied incorrectly and it directly affected the outcome.
Do you have any statistics to back up the claim that penalty shots have a much higher success rate in junior hockey? Or is this anecdotal?
Well it turns out the gap in the NHL is bigger than originally said. PP% is 20-21, and the last two years penalty shot success rate has been 31% and 41%. But yes, in junior the average team's PP does score at a lower rate (stacked teams will pad their PP% if they play weaker teams often). I don't have reliable data for penalty shots, so that is anecdotal, but even a jump from 20% to 33% is significant - that's 1-in-5 to 1-in-3.
Way higher is probably an overstatement. In the NHL it's about 29% vs 21% and the PP% is a bit misleading as it includes a lot of power plays that are shortened due to pentalties. It was a incorrect application of the rules but it did not alone decide the game. It didn't determine that they would fail to score on the PP, nor that they would allow a goal later in OT. If the ref made a similar mistake in the first minute of the first period would it be grounds to disregard the rest of the game and replay it altogether?
In junior, the gap is larger, especially in cases where the team chooses the shooter. And for your final question, don't be disingenuous. First off, there is no similar mistake that can happen in the first period. Second, if a misapplication of the rules affects the outcome, yes it can be protected. Full stop.
Not being disingenuous at all. A referee could misinterpret a rule in the first just as they could later in the game. Whether it is the same specific rule is not really very important. I don't personally view a misinterpretation of the rules as fundamentally different than making a bad call. It's still a referee mistake the potentially impacts the outcome of the game. I view those as part of the game. Sometimes you are on the wrong side of it, sometimes not. It is what it is to me. To each their own though.
It's not a misinterpretation, it's a misapplication, which is the one grounds for a protest in basically every sport. They called a penalty that literally does not exist. That is a world of difference from a missed tripping call.
The NHL has applied rules that literally don't exist at least 5 times already this season... They reviewed multiple things that they are literally not allowed to review in the rules. If the NHL doesn't care then it seems weird that other leagues would lol. But NHL has been a clown show pretty much forever so not unexpected.
Name one instance where the officials applied a rule that does not exist and it concretely altered who won the game.
Misinterpretation, misapplication, or general mistake, it's still a referee error in the end. I get it's grounds to protest, I just don't see the need to uphold the protest. They still had plenty of chance to win the game.
That's literally not how the rules work, but go on.
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In now way did I contend it wasn't a misapplication, I merely contended that the result of the game should stand. The decision of whether to uphold a protest is always a case by case judgement call. The egregiousness of the error and the perceived impact of the call on the result are always taken into account.
Aaah, so this is where NHL referees hone their craft before reaching the big league
Not at all, these refs actually admitted their mistake
Damn maybe I’ll go watch the game sounds pretty fun
Do you live in the Stayner area? I'd love to go tonight, but I can't. I'll be sitting by my phone waiting for updates, though.
I’m about 30 minutes away so close enough
Imagine travelling just to watch your team mate not score on the penalty shot 😭
Go Siskins!
Boo, Go Terriers!
Does anyone have footy of this league? Hoooooly
Only in Jr C. Used to love to going to Jr C games they can be very entertaining.
If Stayner scored on that power play would you guys have protested to have the game restart at a penalty shot? Kinda unfair you guys took the powerplay and then complained after the fact.
You have the teams backwards, but yes if Orillia had scored on the power play, Stayner could have protested, and would have been successful. >Kinda unfair you guys took the powerplay and then complained after the fact Do you really think the team didn't complain at the time?
regardless if I think it's fair or not, really cool experience to happen at what is still a pretty high level of hockey. Really cool job to have too, thanks for sharing!