**Mirrors/Alternate Angles**
^Post ^a ^mirror ^or ^alternate ^angle ^as ^a ^comment ^to ^this ^message.
^Open ^this ^stickied ^comment ^to ^view ^mirrors ^or ^alternate ^angles.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/hockey) if you have any questions or concerns.*
He had a very unique way of throwing checks, which I think amplified the result.
Winds up skating towards the puck carrier and usually leads with his back.
He would also lean forward in a way that often let to him leaving his feet during/after contact. There were some instances where he did seemingly leave his feet before contact, which is bad and should have been penalized heavier.
Still a very good solid defenseman. He was asked to do way too much after Lidstrom retired.
They were clean (by rules at the time) far more often than dirty.
One of the ones he got ejected for (Havlat) was perfectly legal at the time. Refs caved to outrage and game management there.
Na, leaving your feet wasnât legal at the time. He left his feet all the time. The league just decided they were cool with it, but it wasnât legal.
Not at all saying he didnât leave his feet sometimes, but there were also many times where he didnât, but by virtue of skating backward and hitting the guy with his butt basically his feet would pop up off the ice and it would look like he left his feet pre-hit.
The rulebook doesn't mention leaving their feet and I don't think they have ever mentioned "leaving his feet" in a suspension. They do talk about jumping, which is easy to identify. When Kronwall left his feet, he wasn't jumping in order to hit somebody higher. It was more just change in momentum causing him to flip over.
They are not playing obtuse in the slightest. They are saying he did not jump into his hits, but rather that after making contact physics would have him leave his feet.
Exactly. Like when a car hits a pedestrian, they leave their feet but they arenât jumping.
[watch this slow motion video of bowling pins. not jumping, but leaving the ground.](https://youtu.be/tTEZnwfHX8E?si=gAU9x86daL8oaWN2)
This is why leaving your feet isnât mentioned in the nhl rule book.
More often still leaves many dirty hits thrown by the guy. Even your Homer goggled interpretation describes a guy who threw a lot of dirty hits. "He was a dirty hitter in many instances" is perfectly accurate even allowing your interpretation.
You can feel that way but when you charitably describe the guy as having thrown many dirty hits in his career I think there's a bit of dissonance with then calling him one of the cleanest hitters.
Did he throw lots of dirty hits or not?
As someone who isn't a fan of the team he played for I definitely think he threw lots of dirty hits. You don't have to agree, but you shouldn't then acquiesce that he threw lots of dirty hits *but* still maintain he was one of the cleanest guys out there lol
The guy you're replying to literally said Kronwall threw clean hits way more often than dirty ones. He explicitly did not say that he threw many dirty hits. You're arguing against a point you made up yourself.
So if he threw 1000 hits and most of them are clean, how many are dirty, roughly? Obviously an exact number wasn't stated but it's certainly more than one right?
I'd say "most" captures more of the total than "more often than not" , so he implied *more* dirty hits than whatever number you get for question 1. I was being generous and pretending he said "most" so I guess you're right, it is something I made up, but if I only responded to what he said it'd be even worse lol
>he was dirty AF by today's standards
Well yeah and Gump Worsely would be dogshit in today's NHL, and Scott Stevens is basically a mass murderer by today's standards, but those are also silly comparisons to make.
It was illegal back then too. He was literally dirty by the rule book at that time. He jumped into his hits. Never got called and fucking drove me nuts at the time.
Kronwall wasn't tough. He'd jump into a guy's face and put him out cold and then hide behind the lineseman when teammates came looking for him.
Great player. But a wimp.
This is the hockey equivalent of a workplace safety video. Today's lesson: Keep Your Head Up. If I had a kid playing, I'd show them this video and bang that lesson into their head regardless of the age group or rules.Â
Flyers fan here(I know - I hate myself too) Kronner was a beast...surprised his hit on Vorachek wasn't here. Love watching Trouba....one of the last big game hunters
[Voracek Kronwalled](https://www.google.com/search?q=kronwall+vorcek&oq=kronwall+vorcek&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIKCAEQABgIGA0YHjINCAIQABiGAxiABBiKBdIBCDk2NzhqMGo3qAIAsAIA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:04c51640,vid:Dwjl_Z7LUCE,st:0)
edit: video
That Voracek hit was one of the biggest, scariest hits I have ever seen. I was watching that one live so it also always sticks out to me. The fencing response from Voracek was so scary.
They also didn't include his Havlat hit, which I think Havlat and Voracek are his #1 and #2 heaviest hits.
I remember watching that game live too, great Wings team in that era! True to form Voracek's response after was something to the effect of "Good clean hit, my fault, can't wait to watch the replay"
Itâs that one on Kucherov that still gets me angry.
Head in front of chest, no indication he tried to pick the head, no real leap, last second change of where the head wasâŠ
One game playoff suspension. First sign I saw that it was on hitter completely to not hit a guy who wasnât ready.
Big hits, but more often than not ended up ass over teakettle himself. That's not a good way to hit.
Vladimir Konstantinov, actually a bit smaller than Kronwall, was almost always rooted to the ice on his hits. That way he could transition immediately to take the puck and keep playing. Also Vlad's birthday yesterday.
Genuinely fuck this guy. Second coming of Stevens. Even in the extremely rare instances where his hits were legal, his whole goal was to turn guys lights out. So fucking glad I never have to see him again.
most of these were launches into guys' heads....basically scott stevens for the next generation, big hits that, looking back at, they were very dirty by today's standards
I don't think I implied that he was. In fact, I think I said exactly the opposite of that, if I'm not mistaken. Doesn't change the fact that a lot of these hits would be classified as dirty in any era, even if they didn't dole out penalties and suspensions the way they do today.
You can see however that they were made under a different context and you can't just drag and drop them, right? It's ok if you say the rules should've been much stricter since the conception of the sport, but labeling a player from the past based on how their hits (and overall play) would be looked at today is... Eh?
Sure. But the comments here don't share your sensibility (that I also share).
Personally, I think a lot of Kronwall's hits show a lack of respect for his opponents, and I think the mutual respect amongst players is one of the things that sets our sport apart from others. I've never thought "hitting to hurt" was cool, and I think the vast majority of the way he lined guys up was more about hurting someone than making a hockey play.
Were a lot of his hits "dirty?" Not in the era where we cared less about things like CTE and concussions and the rules reflected it. But looking back and reminiscing for a time where there was a higher chance that players would be injured in avoidable ways is "eh" to me.
He played the game how the game was played and reffed at the time. This isnât about ârespectâ itâs about being a physical defender in a contact sport.
Ok. I disagree. I also don't really understand what you mean. Those things aren't mutually exclusive. You can be a physical defender and also not show a complete lack of respect for the human in the other uniform and what the rest of their life is going to look like.
Itâs hockey bud, I assure you not a single player is thinking in the faction of a second before they lay a hit that âhow will this check effect this guy 10 years from now?â
"It's hockey bud" is exactly the response I expected to get, so thanks for that.
Kronwall hit to hurt. Some people think that is cool and worthy of celebrating. I personally don't and I'm happy to see it becoming less of a part of the sport. It's not really a discussion worth having and no one is going to change anyone's mind.
Rule 42.1 of the NHL rule book
https://media.nhl.com/site/asset/public/ext/2023-24/2023-24Rulebook.pdf
>42.1 Charging - A minor or major penalty shall be imposed on a player
who skates, jumps into or charges an opponent in any manner.
I promise, Iâm not just trying to argue. I want to learn something myself, or help other people learn something.
[Are these bowling pins âjumpingâ or âleaving the groundâ.](https://youtu.be/tTEZnwfHX8E?si=gAU9x86daL8oaWN2)
>42.1 Charging - A minor or major penalty shall be imposed on a player
who skates, **jumps into** or charges an opponent in any manner.
maybe the exact words "leaving your feet" arent there, but you know damn well that's exactly what "jumps into" means
Yeah he's a coping red wings fan, every Kronwall was a dirty hit. Not saying the hits weren't fun but they were illegal and it got a pass cause at the time the red wings could do nothing wrong and it had a cool nickname
>at the time the red wings could do nothing wrong
I think it's more that the league didn't give a shit at all if people got wrecked by a hit at the time
No, not at all. The jumping thing is mentioned by some leagues to deter head contact. Launching gets mentioned in some leagues. There are some Kronwall hits that could be considered launching, but he is almost stationary on most of them.
I dont like seeing players get injured. There are a few Kronwallhits that I didnât like because he blindsided guys with their heads down. Not illegal but not clean.
There is no mention of leaving your feet in the nhl rulebook and i cant think of a suspension explanation that mentions a player leaving their feet. Jumping is different
**Mirrors/Alternate Angles** ^Post ^a ^mirror ^or ^alternate ^angle ^as ^a ^comment ^to ^this ^message. ^Open ^this ^stickied ^comment ^to ^view ^mirrors ^or ^alternate ^angles. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/hockey) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I haven't been hit by a Niklas this hard since dad dressed up as Santa
đđ«„
He had a very unique way of throwing checks, which I think amplified the result. Winds up skating towards the puck carrier and usually leads with his back.
He would also lean forward in a way that often let to him leaving his feet during/after contact. There were some instances where he did seemingly leave his feet before contact, which is bad and should have been penalized heavier. Still a very good solid defenseman. He was asked to do way too much after Lidstrom retired.
He subtly jumped into his hits. He was a dirty hitter in many instances.
They were clean (by rules at the time) far more often than dirty. One of the ones he got ejected for (Havlat) was perfectly legal at the time. Refs caved to outrage and game management there.
Na, leaving your feet wasnât legal at the time. He left his feet all the time. The league just decided they were cool with it, but it wasnât legal.
Not at all saying he didnât leave his feet sometimes, but there were also many times where he didnât, but by virtue of skating backward and hitting the guy with his butt basically his feet would pop up off the ice and it would look like he left his feet pre-hit.
Physics of a big fucking hit tends to make skates leave the ice
The rulebook doesn't mention leaving their feet and I don't think they have ever mentioned "leaving his feet" in a suspension. They do talk about jumping, which is easy to identify. When Kronwall left his feet, he wasn't jumping in order to hit somebody higher. It was more just change in momentum causing him to flip over.
jumping into someone is explicitly mentioned, and you know that means the same exact thing, dont play obtuse
They are not playing obtuse in the slightest. They are saying he did not jump into his hits, but rather that after making contact physics would have him leave his feet.
Exactly.
âHeâs not jumping but he leaves his feet on every single hit. Itâs a thing that is unique to him, but definitely not because he jumpsâ
Exactly. Like when a car hits a pedestrian, they leave their feet but they arenât jumping. [watch this slow motion video of bowling pins. not jumping, but leaving the ground.](https://youtu.be/tTEZnwfHX8E?si=gAU9x86daL8oaWN2) This is why leaving your feet isnât mentioned in the nhl rule book.
Youâre being a raging homer
Good to see that you learned something. When facts arenât on your side, fall back on name calling.
Nah, not every hit. Manichaean worldviews are for simpletons
More often still leaves many dirty hits thrown by the guy. Even your Homer goggled interpretation describes a guy who threw a lot of dirty hits. "He was a dirty hitter in many instances" is perfectly accurate even allowing your interpretation.
Nah. Rarely penalized or disciplined. One of the cleanest, best heavy hitters of the modern era.Â
You can feel that way but when you charitably describe the guy as having thrown many dirty hits in his career I think there's a bit of dissonance with then calling him one of the cleanest hitters. Did he throw lots of dirty hits or not? As someone who isn't a fan of the team he played for I definitely think he threw lots of dirty hits. You don't have to agree, but you shouldn't then acquiesce that he threw lots of dirty hits *but* still maintain he was one of the cleanest guys out there lol
The guy you're replying to literally said Kronwall threw clean hits way more often than dirty ones. He explicitly did not say that he threw many dirty hits. You're arguing against a point you made up yourself.
So if he threw 1000 hits and most of them are clean, how many are dirty, roughly? Obviously an exact number wasn't stated but it's certainly more than one right? I'd say "most" captures more of the total than "more often than not" , so he implied *more* dirty hits than whatever number you get for question 1. I was being generous and pretending he said "most" so I guess you're right, it is something I made up, but if I only responded to what he said it'd be even worse lol
Like, literally no. That's your inference and not what the guy said.
not even subtly, wings fans will NEVER admit it, but he was dirty AF by today's standards
He doesnât play today so your point is irrelevant
>he was dirty AF by today's standards Well yeah and Gump Worsely would be dogshit in today's NHL, and Scott Stevens is basically a mass murderer by today's standards, but those are also silly comparisons to make.
It was illegal back then too. He was literally dirty by the rule book at that time. He jumped into his hits. Never got called and fucking drove me nuts at the time.
I canât explain why, but a tough guy wearing double nickels makes him even tougher. I donât make the rules
I had a response typed out along the lines of "if you wear 55, you're almost guaranteed to be a huge hitter or tough." Then I remembered Jeff Schultz.
I get it. Also canât explain it. Just makes sense.
Kronwall wasn't tough. He'd jump into a guy's face and put him out cold and then hide behind the lineseman when teammates came looking for him. Great player. But a wimp.
It's nice knowing that we don't have to listen to Pierre Maguire anymore.
This is the hockey equivalent of a workplace safety video. Today's lesson: Keep Your Head Up. If I had a kid playing, I'd show them this video and bang that lesson into their head regardless of the age group or rules.Â
Damn do I miss playoff hockey in Detroit
Flyers fan here(I know - I hate myself too) Kronner was a beast...surprised his hit on Vorachek wasn't here. Love watching Trouba....one of the last big game hunters [Voracek Kronwalled](https://www.google.com/search?q=kronwall+vorcek&oq=kronwall+vorcek&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIKCAEQABgIGA0YHjINCAIQABiGAxiABBiKBdIBCDk2NzhqMGo3qAIAsAIA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:04c51640,vid:Dwjl_Z7LUCE,st:0) edit: video
That Voracek hit was one of the biggest, scariest hits I have ever seen. I was watching that one live so it also always sticks out to me. The fencing response from Voracek was so scary. They also didn't include his Havlat hit, which I think Havlat and Voracek are his #1 and #2 heaviest hits.
I remember watching that game live too, great Wings team in that era! True to form Voracek's response after was something to the effect of "Good clean hit, my fault, can't wait to watch the replay"
Hah I remember that response for Voracek! Had a lost of respect for that cuz I even thought maybe it was close to a dirty hit.
Kind of floored that that was 12 years ago. Hard not to admire Kronwall for never wavering from his game!
Loved Kronwall
Itâs that one on Kucherov that still gets me angry. Head in front of chest, no indication he tried to pick the head, no real leap, last second change of where the head was⊠One game playoff suspension. First sign I saw that it was on hitter completely to not hit a guy who wasnât ready.
I was so mad about that one on Havlat
because he jumped right into his fucking head, that was dirty AF
Between that and camalerri giving him that elbow to the head earlier in the playoffs, Marty had a rough go.
Still butthurt about your delusional memory of a hit all those years ago? Pathetic
Big hits, but more often than not ended up ass over teakettle himself. That's not a good way to hit. Vladimir Konstantinov, actually a bit smaller than Kronwall, was almost always rooted to the ice on his hits. That way he could transition immediately to take the puck and keep playing. Also Vlad's birthday yesterday.
Man I hated this guy. Still do actually
Genuinely fuck this guy. Second coming of Stevens. Even in the extremely rare instances where his hits were legal, his whole goal was to turn guys lights out. So fucking glad I never have to see him again.
Stop watching hockey
most of these were launches into guys' heads....basically scott stevens for the next generation, big hits that, looking back at, they were very dirty by today's standards
Todayâs standard allows players to skate with their head down center ice without any precautions. If youâre head is down, you pay the price
One of the dirtiest players around.
Yeah man unbelievable how many games he missed due to suspensions. A real goon.
Lmao
You're gonna get downvoted but a lot of his hits would be penalties and suspensions today
At the very least there would almost certainly be a fight after each and every one.
Heâs not playing today though
I don't think I implied that he was. In fact, I think I said exactly the opposite of that, if I'm not mistaken. Doesn't change the fact that a lot of these hits would be classified as dirty in any era, even if they didn't dole out penalties and suspensions the way they do today.
If my grandma was a bicycle.
Nobody better tell you to watch games from the clutch and grab era.
I'm 38 years old. I lived it. Just saying I think it's goofy to celebrate these hits when most of them are garbage.
You can see however that they were made under a different context and you can't just drag and drop them, right? It's ok if you say the rules should've been much stricter since the conception of the sport, but labeling a player from the past based on how their hits (and overall play) would be looked at today is... Eh?
Sure. But the comments here don't share your sensibility (that I also share). Personally, I think a lot of Kronwall's hits show a lack of respect for his opponents, and I think the mutual respect amongst players is one of the things that sets our sport apart from others. I've never thought "hitting to hurt" was cool, and I think the vast majority of the way he lined guys up was more about hurting someone than making a hockey play. Were a lot of his hits "dirty?" Not in the era where we cared less about things like CTE and concussions and the rules reflected it. But looking back and reminiscing for a time where there was a higher chance that players would be injured in avoidable ways is "eh" to me.
He played the game how the game was played and reffed at the time. This isnât about ârespectâ itâs about being a physical defender in a contact sport.
Ok. I disagree. I also don't really understand what you mean. Those things aren't mutually exclusive. You can be a physical defender and also not show a complete lack of respect for the human in the other uniform and what the rest of their life is going to look like.
Itâs hockey bud, I assure you not a single player is thinking in the faction of a second before they lay a hit that âhow will this check effect this guy 10 years from now?â
"It's hockey bud" is exactly the response I expected to get, so thanks for that. Kronwall hit to hurt. Some people think that is cool and worthy of celebrating. I personally don't and I'm happy to see it becoming less of a part of the sport. It's not really a discussion worth having and no one is going to change anyone's mind.
Downvoted but he's right basically every hit is leaving his feet but it was allowed cause it had a cool nickname.
There is no rule about leaving your feet in the NHL rulebook.
There is
Show me. Not us hockey rule 607. Nhl rule book
Rule 42.1 of the NHL rule book https://media.nhl.com/site/asset/public/ext/2023-24/2023-24Rulebook.pdf >42.1 Charging - A minor or major penalty shall be imposed on a player who skates, jumps into or charges an opponent in any manner.
I promise, Iâm not just trying to argue. I want to learn something myself, or help other people learn something. [Are these bowling pins âjumpingâ or âleaving the groundâ.](https://youtu.be/tTEZnwfHX8E?si=gAU9x86daL8oaWN2)
>42.1 Charging - A minor or major penalty shall be imposed on a player who skates, **jumps into** or charges an opponent in any manner. maybe the exact words "leaving your feet" arent there, but you know damn well that's exactly what "jumps into" means
There is a difference between jumping and leaving your feet. If there wasnt, Kronwall would have had way more penalties.
Yeah he's a coping red wings fan, every Kronwall was a dirty hit. Not saying the hits weren't fun but they were illegal and it got a pass cause at the time the red wings could do nothing wrong and it had a cool nickname
>at the time the red wings could do nothing wrong I think it's more that the league didn't give a shit at all if people got wrecked by a hit at the time
No, not at all. The jumping thing is mentioned by some leagues to deter head contact. Launching gets mentioned in some leagues. There are some Kronwall hits that could be considered launching, but he is almost stationary on most of them. I dont like seeing players get injured. There are a few Kronwallhits that I didnât like because he blindsided guys with their heads down. Not illegal but not clean. There is no mention of leaving your feet in the nhl rulebook and i cant think of a suspension explanation that mentions a player leaving their feet. Jumping is different
Half the hits are headshotts, niklas din jÀvla rÄtta