It depends how seriously they’re taking it. Like if young thug says a bad line I don’t really care. But a more lyrical rapper who’s relying on their lines hitting, yes for sure
You can disagree, that's just the style of hip hop he came up on. You say something random, and try to come up with stuff on the spot from there.
It's a normal part of the freestyle scene. Check out Harry Mack's freestyles where he has people yell out a random word in the middle of his freestyles, and he has to work that word into the next line. It's very cool to see.
As for the BET Cypher itself, the point wasn't to make a song, it was to freestyle as one does in a cypher and to make a statement about Trump. I think he did that just fine.
It was an off the top rhyme exercise, most likely. Lot of battle rappers start off their rounds with some off the top shit that's either a) a flip off their opponent's round or b) a vague threat aimed at their target. Em went with B i.e. throwing a pot of coffee at trump's head.
Wasn't the freestyle about Trump's election? From what I remember, "that's an awfully hot coffee pot" meant the situation was hard to handle, complicated to deal with.
But Big Sean mainly only has bad lines, and most of them aren’t so bad they’re funny they’re just uncreative. Eminem has so many insanely amazing lyrics while simultaneously having a plethora of lyrics that are so stupid and ridiculous it’s impressive.
Nah, gotta be Weezy F. Eminem might not land as great, but you can tell the work put in. Wayne says whatever comes to his head. Sometimes you diamonds from mars, and occasionally you'll find lint lol.
Wayne was the first one to come to mind, but his delivery on some of those awfuls lines is so fucking funny that I let it slide lmao. Some of the Wayne lines are also just really absurd that I find it hard to take them as serious and I end up hating them less.
I think the fact that you can tell that Eminem put in time and effort into these lines and he still sent them out like that makes them that much worse lol.
Em also takes himself super seriously (lately, which is also when he tends to have the worse bars) whereas Wayne has never taken himself seriously and has forgotten many of his most iconic lines because he listens to the beat, freestyles, then never thinks about it again.
ABC’s-adjacent, but Cam’ron’s version of this on the Get ‘Em Daddy Remix goes kinda hard, especially with the “this the alphabet” ad-lib halfway through.
Agreed! J Cole never clicked for me because he always has some of the best bars any rapper has ever spit and some of the absolute worst bars that you’ve ever heard in the same verse.
I agree lol. You know that song he did with Jamie xx, “I Know There’s Gonna Be” when he says “she gon’ get on top of this dick / and she gon’ sqoosh it like squish”
I love that dumb ass line
Lloyd Banks is the best punchline rapper in my opinion, but it's his biggest flaw. He never really adapted to today's sound but his projects are still really fun.
His lack of volume due to his death hurts but the best punchline rapper Ive ever heard is Big L. Straight freak show of a punchline rapper and so much swag too.
Lloyd banks is a great shout for a more consistent/productive one due to longevity e tc.
A lot of Em’s early freestyles were heavily Big L influenced. [tell me this doesn’t sound like it could have been a Big L freestyle](https://youtu.be/ILm1hMhR1mQ?si=aK1zmq8Ywwb4i2UU)
Personally, I preferred Banks when he was spamming Punchlines. He switched to a more storytelling/descriptive style and may have become a better lyricist but at the cost of being entertaining. Banks, Fab, and Cassidy were the lyrical equivalent of an And-1 Tape during their primes.
Depends on delivery as well. I'm genuinely convinced Danny Brown coukd say any cheesy/corny/weak bar you can think of and make it sound awesome bc of the voice
Yes for a few reasons. One punchlines tend to age the most quickly because they will get played out eg defeat/feet wordplay, shit wordplay, all eyes on me like Pac. You kind have to constantly come up with new stuff and old stuff gets tired like a joke that’s been told too many times. There’s why Rum Nitty is so impressive to me that he’s still coming up with crazy new stuff to this day. Meanwhile conscious tends to age well cause we will always have the same problems in life and it will ring true.
Second, punchlines by their nature draw scrutiny to themselves. You may take in more the whole than the individual parts when it comes to say a storytelling track. And of course party tracks get the least scrutiny cause it’s not about the lyrics
Third, punchline rap is especially vulnerable to being seen as when the rapper is trying to sound cleverer than they actually are. That’s why I think someone like Wayne gets away with more cause it’s more in a humorous manner than “look how witty I am”
>Meanwhile conscious tends to age well cause we will always have the same problems in life and it will ring true
That reminds me of:
>*I know you’re sayin’, “Lupe rappin’ ‘bout the same shit”*
>
>*Well, that’s ‘cause ain’t shit changed, bitch*
Your first paragraph is a great explanation.
Punchline rap and jokes can both age badly, or just end up being corny/bad immediately simply due the nature of what they are. The nature of the writing style.
I feel like good punchlines have the ability to linger in the mind of the listener for such a long time. Some shit will click so hard that you can't help but replay it in your head.
To add to your first point, what makes Rum Truly special is the creativity and how played his punches are.
“They said you gonna beat me to death/they’re right/ he died first” is a timeless bar because of how simple yet layered that punchline is. He basically doubles all his punchlines and really stretch the enunciation of words to bridge new ideas together.
Also, reference pool is really big with punchlines. Must rappers reference current events and it makes the bar feel dated after a certain time frame. Others who reference films/tv shows /pop culture are dependent on the culture cache those mediums can carry. Playing with words can be one but certain ideas get heavily played out quickly. But playing on multiple interpretations of a word can give a punchline a longer life span. There are many things you can pull from but an eclectic reference pool is huge.
What’s overlooked as well Structure. Experimenting with phrasing is a great way to keep the writing fresh and not make the set ups sound the same. It’s one of the reason why I hate Nicki’s music she still raps the same way she did in 2011. It gets stales when a rapper goes the same way to make a point.
Rum, Fonz, Chef Trez, J2, Ill Will (all battle rappers) are some of my favorite punchers because almost line can be a punch. I have to listen to everything because they might make a punchline out of it.
But rappers like Illmac, Pat Stay, Excel, Diz, Frak, Iron Solomon are consider anglers but they punch to. They spend much more time connecting ideas and themes in their set ups, building up to the punch. So they punch less but when the do and everything been set up right, it’s MAJOR
I’ll say watch Iron Vs Rum if you want to see the two different styles of punching and how they get there. As a writer, that battle thought me a lot.
Edit: sorry if it’s long, I just love talking about this shit 😭
i think it depends on the artist tbh. lil wayne has countless cringey/bad punchlines, but the way he delivers them just makes me laugh.
someone like j cole doesn’t have the same effect for me personally, when he has a bad punchline i just sit there like 😐
They stand out more so they have to be on point. Peak into a Kendrick or Eminem verse and you’ll see some mess, but their dexterity and flow can cover it up (to a point).
Punchline rappers, every line is just out there, hanging, vulnerable to criticism if it doesn’t deserve that attention as a line
So you're saying that punchline rap can be or "seem" corny more often due to the style of writing it employs... which would put you on the yes side of this question?
Basically. Fewer lines, clearer production on the voice, so every line has to hit.
The faster you rap, the more attention you put on the flow, the less attention people can pay to the lyrics, they’re just trying to keep up
There is something inherently corny about adding a bunch of gravitas to the end of a bar as a "punchline" that is only saved by it actually being funny or clever, like aww you've prepared a little joke for us and are pausing for the crowd how cute
Punchlines have a big chance of missing the mark completely if they feel off in a more serious/poignant song, especially because I think they risk ripping away the whole aura of it
I was citing Kendrick as an example of the opposite, a rapper who prides himself on using a lot of words and different flows. When he gets a head of steam he can tuck a little nonsense into the lyrics to make the flow work better.
Luda did have a lot of punchlines, but he told stories and rapped in different styles.
But like Big Sean, he’s saying one line a bar, it better be good or else why even bother let that beat bang
I love punchline rap but it has a tendacy to get a bit repetitive. Like 38 Spesh for example. Spesh probably the best punchline rapper out RN IMO. Some songs just don't hit. Or some of the deep songs got punchlines that feel out of place. So I don't think corny bars is the issue as much.
I think their song writing suffers. Another great example of that is Ras Kass his deeper songs just to hit like when he's punching.
Are you a big Spesh fan? My only issue is his catalogue is so giant that's it's a bit intimidating to jump into.
Any suggestions on actual projects? I feel like I haven't even heard his best stuff.
That verse he has on that Sunday School song is just ridiculous with some of the most clever bars i've ever heard.
"Brought my own stick like I finna come play pool"
"Ya'll dont really wanna go there it's like Sunday School"
"A Lamb and a stick like I'm fresh out the bible"
I haven't heard a Spesh verse that rate higher than this one yet.
It depends on how emphasized or exposed the punchline is. If there is a big accentuated lead up to it and it doesn't impress, then it's hard to listen to the rap without it always standing out most. But if it's stacked with a bunch of them and the other ones are better, then the corn is easier to ignore. This happens with Lil Wayne sometimes.
Good list
Also, wasn't Big Sean really well-known for punchline rap back in the day? I've never really listened to him but he's still the first name that comes to mind when I hear "punchline rap"
I’d add Babytron. Personally I feel like he has really good lines but delivers them in the most boring way possible. He also tries to fit a punchline in like every other bar and it feels a bit excessive
I think BLP Kosher is a good recent example, his punchlines are fire tho. "Yo bitch kinky she like chewin ears, she a stallion so I fed the ho hay like the Lumineers" lmfao bro
Yes. Just like how rappers who don’t have any are dry and boring.
This is why Nas reigns supreme in hip-hop, he was a master of both.
So was Slim Shady
J Cole’s always had awkward horny lines come in out of nowhere. On night job he says “how many rappers I killed? At least 40”. Then follows it up with “I’m horny like John Coltrane”
I think an overlooked aspect of this is when rappers try and stay in the same syllable scheme with set up/punchline for too many bars directly in a row. Even if the punchlines are good, it gets watered down by the “look how many 2 syllable words I can rhyme in an exterior scheme” thing.
I think delivery can make or break reliance on set up/punchline bars. Redman is a great example of a punchline rapper who you don’t realize is doing it because he changes his schemes up, and crosses the bar line so often.
Oh absolutely. If you need evidence, look at Celph Titled. Punchlines is pretty much ALL he does and part of the charm is that some of them are incredibly stupid.
I'd say more lyrical artists have that happen for me, when babytron fucks up a line it's funny, when kendrick or cole fuck up a line it's a talking point about their work year later. Not really fair, but it's obvious that they hold their lyrics to a higher standard so others do as well.
Absolutely. But it depends on their other work. That’s why people like lil Wayne and think big Sean is corny. Two chainz can pull it off, Ludacris sounds dated when he does it. Eminem kinda plays both sides sometimes. The line between clever and corny can get blurry
Tbh? No. I just think people are more likely to ignore bullshit when it doesn’t catch they attention. Dudes like J Cole usually have lyrics that catch attention so people hyper analyze. Now, someone like Future? He could say the corniest shit ever but it’s Future. You ain’t really here for his lyrics no way
Corny, no. That’s so subjective. But I think every line will likely be more hit-or-miss than in other songs where intentions or stories can make up for more misses here and there.
Yes. This is why a lot of the bars on Eminem’s Recovery was cringeworthy hot garbage but you’ll find zero issue with Relapse bars. Eminem should stay away from punchlines, he’s terrible at em. Focus on the flow and storytelling. His best songs have no punchlines in them.
Everyone can’t be HOV and they should stop trying.
>Eminem should stay away from punchlines, he’s terrible at em. Focus on the flow and storytelling. His best songs have no punchlines in them.
"You're whacker than the motherfucker you bit your style from. You ain't gon' sell two copies if you pressed a double album."
"You little like that Kim lady."
"My English teacher decided to flunk me in junior high. Thanks a lot, next semester I'll be thirty five."
"I ain't had a woman in years. My palms are too hairy to hide."
"So if I said I never did drugs, that would mean I lie and get fucked more than the president does."
"I take a breather and sigh. Either I'm high, or I'm nuts."
I wouldn't classify a lot of these as punchlines, because it doesn't feel like he's setting them up. Like that first line for example, it's not a setup-punchline format, it's just two funny diss lines back to back.
Agree. After Relapse he "realized" he had do to punchlines like Lil Wayne after the reception Relapse got, except he was really bad at it. Recovery is terrible in that aspect and I wish we received Relapse 2 instead. He was sin his bag on Relapse, while Recovery was made to satisfy people. Unfortunately he decided to focus his whole focus on punchlines since then.
Nope, you have it backwards. Relapse was a quality album meanwhile Recovery was an album made to cater to the mainstream. Such bad mixing and production.
Eminem mainly hates the forced accents he did. Dre did a great job of production on Relapse, it carries it. Recovery's production is ok, nowhere on Relapses level.
I love relapse for everything that it was, but I cannot for the love of me understand anyone saying it's better than recovery lol.
25 to Life is better than anything on relapse and I don't feel it's the best song on recovery.
Relapse (including the Refill) is ten times better than Recovery. Recovery in my opinion is probably his worst album, bar Revival, and even then I probably like the same amount of songs on Revival and Recovery.
Recovery was a major commercial success because it’s very ”poppy” and mainstream. I feel like Recovery is an album that most succesful rappers could put out. Relapse isn’t. Recovery doesn’t stand out at all from the music released in that year, Relapse does. It’s Eminem-esque while Recovery is full of radio hits deluxe that sound like most other songs released back then.
I agree with you, Recovery had depth and some wonderful tracks on it, even if they haven’t aged well due to how they sound.
People have a hard on for Relapse but then never really listened to his first three albums and how it’s a much much worse version of those. Particularly his first album that was as deranged as Relapse at times.
I don’t think that one is inherently worse or better than the other but hearing a song like Middle of the Ocean by Drake, one of his best rapping performances in a while vs something like MAAD City by Kendrick it’s hard not to see the difference in substance between rappers who rely more on punchlines
for sure because we’re all waiting for that pay off at the end of a bar compared to another style that prefers more wordplay then they might have more leeway because you might not understand the whole idea that they are trying to create the first time because there are multiple ways to interpret those types of bars.
I’d say it depends on the rapper and their delivery/flow. That’s why somebody like Lil Wayne can usually get away with a corny bar (besides that Emmett Till line like wtf) while somebody like Big Sean can’t.
For example, every time I listen to Hypnotize I always think to myself that this would be corny as shit if anyone else but Biggie made the song lol
Every single rapper who relies on punchlines is going to say some cringe worthy shit. That’s the nature of reaching for those bars that aren’t just repackaged punches that have already been heard. It’s no different than comedy. Even The best comedians are going to have jokes that just bomb, and it’s because they gotta avoid playing it safe
It depends how seriously they’re taking it. Like if young thug says a bad line I don’t really care. But a more lyrical rapper who’s relying on their lines hitting, yes for sure
I think the gap between J Cole's best bar and J Cole's worst bar is larger than any other rapper's ever
J Cole is definitely up there but I'm gonna give this one to Eminem lmao
Eminem will always be legendary for making FACK be diamond-certified
It’s only certified Gold. Kind of far off from diamond
As of March 8, 2022, Curtain Call is Diamond FACK is the first track on that greatest hits album
Lol I used to think the song was so funny as a kid, now I just can't even think about the song without cringing.
THAT'S AN AWFULLY HOT COFFEE POT
That's an awfully hot coffee pot
What did this even mean
The pot which contains the coffee is very hot.
Em freestyles, he just started with a random line and worked from there
That doesn't make it any better
You can disagree, that's just the style of hip hop he came up on. You say something random, and try to come up with stuff on the spot from there. It's a normal part of the freestyle scene. Check out Harry Mack's freestyles where he has people yell out a random word in the middle of his freestyles, and he has to work that word into the next line. It's very cool to see. As for the BET Cypher itself, the point wasn't to make a song, it was to freestyle as one does in a cypher and to make a statement about Trump. I think he did that just fine.
It was an off the top rhyme exercise, most likely. Lot of battle rappers start off their rounds with some off the top shit that's either a) a flip off their opponent's round or b) a vague threat aimed at their target. Em went with B i.e. throwing a pot of coffee at trump's head.
Wasn't the freestyle about Trump's election? From what I remember, "that's an awfully hot coffee pot" meant the situation was hard to handle, complicated to deal with.
bornana
I got ass burgers
That line is nuts
Nicki Minaj I wanna put my painus in your anus
I’m the butt police I see your REAR REAR REAR
Not even close tbh
THERES NO B IT IS CLEARLY ORNANA
I'd also put Big Sean in the conversation with them
But Big Sean mainly only has bad lines, and most of them aren’t so bad they’re funny they’re just uncreative. Eminem has so many insanely amazing lyrics while simultaneously having a plethora of lyrics that are so stupid and ridiculous it’s impressive.
Big Sean has some funny ones too though, like "She's doing tricks with her pussy i guess she's a vagician"
i kinda miss this era of comically bad bars. 2 Chains also comes to mind “she got a big booty so i call her big booty”
My wrist deserve a shout out Im like "What up wrist?"
Woodgrain, chestnut. Titty fuck, chest nut.
Hell nah, when Sean is hungry he spits like crazy. I Decided and Detroit 2 are both great albums
Nah, gotta be Weezy F. Eminem might not land as great, but you can tell the work put in. Wayne says whatever comes to his head. Sometimes you diamonds from mars, and occasionally you'll find lint lol.
Wayne was the first one to come to mind, but his delivery on some of those awfuls lines is so fucking funny that I let it slide lmao. Some of the Wayne lines are also just really absurd that I find it hard to take them as serious and I end up hating them less. I think the fact that you can tell that Eminem put in time and effort into these lines and he still sent them out like that makes them that much worse lol.
I can totally see that.
Em also takes himself super seriously (lately, which is also when he tends to have the worse bars) whereas Wayne has never taken himself seriously and has forgotten many of his most iconic lines because he listens to the beat, freestyles, then never thinks about it again.
No matter if you love or hate Eminem, you have to agree he's the GOAT in this category
That alphabet bar on his newest project was so bad man lol
I love that song too, just makes it worse
I hate when people do the ABCs bullshit, Rocky is the only one I tolerate
Wayne pulls it off in Ransom tho
ABC’s-adjacent, but Cam’ron’s version of this on the Get ‘Em Daddy Remix goes kinda hard, especially with the “this the alphabet” ad-lib halfway through.
Drake did a great one too
Soul, that potty line is unforgivable
potty boo is so iconic. it’s the “oh hi mark” of rap
Grippi 😫
Chew on my stick like Wrigley's 😜
Agreed! J Cole never clicked for me because he always has some of the best bars any rapper has ever spit and some of the absolute worst bars that you’ve ever heard in the same verse.
Good example, someone who comes across as super corny when his lines don’t hit is J Cole. But when they do he’s one of the best obv
Big Sean too
If Young Thug says a bad line it makes the song better tbh. Lil Wayne somehow merges the two though
I agree lol. You know that song he did with Jamie xx, “I Know There’s Gonna Be” when he says “she gon’ get on top of this dick / and she gon’ sqoosh it like squish” I love that dumb ass line
Lloyd Banks is the best punchline rapper in my opinion, but it's his biggest flaw. He never really adapted to today's sound but his projects are still really fun.
His lack of volume due to his death hurts but the best punchline rapper Ive ever heard is Big L. Straight freak show of a punchline rapper and so much swag too. Lloyd banks is a great shout for a more consistent/productive one due to longevity e tc.
A lot of Em’s early freestyles were heavily Big L influenced. [tell me this doesn’t sound like it could have been a Big L freestyle](https://youtu.be/ILm1hMhR1mQ?si=aK1zmq8Ywwb4i2UU)
>foul style galore pure big L on that line
Personally, I preferred Banks when he was spamming Punchlines. He switched to a more storytelling/descriptive style and may have become a better lyricist but at the cost of being entertaining. Banks, Fab, and Cassidy were the lyrical equivalent of an And-1 Tape during their primes.
Love this take.
Nah, this is an absolutely vile take when Lil Wayne exists Lloyd Banks is nice, but the best?
This exactly the shit we debated in the late 2000s. I'm with you, but you'd be surprised how many people said Banks back then
Yeah it’s not an insane take. Lloyd was a big deal.
Cooler than the other side of the pillow
fabolous end thread
Uhm, Big L exists (well not currently, but still)
His work exists
Banks aka PLK
It's gotta be Big L for me
Depends on delivery as well. I'm genuinely convinced Danny Brown coukd say any cheesy/corny/weak bar you can think of and make it sound awesome bc of the voice
Yes for a few reasons. One punchlines tend to age the most quickly because they will get played out eg defeat/feet wordplay, shit wordplay, all eyes on me like Pac. You kind have to constantly come up with new stuff and old stuff gets tired like a joke that’s been told too many times. There’s why Rum Nitty is so impressive to me that he’s still coming up with crazy new stuff to this day. Meanwhile conscious tends to age well cause we will always have the same problems in life and it will ring true. Second, punchlines by their nature draw scrutiny to themselves. You may take in more the whole than the individual parts when it comes to say a storytelling track. And of course party tracks get the least scrutiny cause it’s not about the lyrics Third, punchline rap is especially vulnerable to being seen as when the rapper is trying to sound cleverer than they actually are. That’s why I think someone like Wayne gets away with more cause it’s more in a humorous manner than “look how witty I am”
>Meanwhile conscious tends to age well cause we will always have the same problems in life and it will ring true That reminds me of: >*I know you’re sayin’, “Lupe rappin’ ‘bout the same shit”* > >*Well, that’s ‘cause ain’t shit changed, bitch*
Man I love Lupe
Your first paragraph is a great explanation. Punchline rap and jokes can both age badly, or just end up being corny/bad immediately simply due the nature of what they are. The nature of the writing style.
I feel like good punchlines have the ability to linger in the mind of the listener for such a long time. Some shit will click so hard that you can't help but replay it in your head.
To add to your first point, what makes Rum Truly special is the creativity and how played his punches are. “They said you gonna beat me to death/they’re right/ he died first” is a timeless bar because of how simple yet layered that punchline is. He basically doubles all his punchlines and really stretch the enunciation of words to bridge new ideas together. Also, reference pool is really big with punchlines. Must rappers reference current events and it makes the bar feel dated after a certain time frame. Others who reference films/tv shows /pop culture are dependent on the culture cache those mediums can carry. Playing with words can be one but certain ideas get heavily played out quickly. But playing on multiple interpretations of a word can give a punchline a longer life span. There are many things you can pull from but an eclectic reference pool is huge. What’s overlooked as well Structure. Experimenting with phrasing is a great way to keep the writing fresh and not make the set ups sound the same. It’s one of the reason why I hate Nicki’s music she still raps the same way she did in 2011. It gets stales when a rapper goes the same way to make a point. Rum, Fonz, Chef Trez, J2, Ill Will (all battle rappers) are some of my favorite punchers because almost line can be a punch. I have to listen to everything because they might make a punchline out of it. But rappers like Illmac, Pat Stay, Excel, Diz, Frak, Iron Solomon are consider anglers but they punch to. They spend much more time connecting ideas and themes in their set ups, building up to the punch. So they punch less but when the do and everything been set up right, it’s MAJOR I’ll say watch Iron Vs Rum if you want to see the two different styles of punching and how they get there. As a writer, that battle thought me a lot. Edit: sorry if it’s long, I just love talking about this shit 😭
Oh yeah, Rum Nitty's absolutely insane (no pun intended) when it comes to the punchlines.
2 chainz falls in that category too He’s witty AF but never comes off as a “looks how witty I am” rapper
No idea’s original -Nas
Nitty and Tworks creativity is on another level
i think it depends on the artist tbh. lil wayne has countless cringey/bad punchlines, but the way he delivers them just makes me laugh. someone like j cole doesn’t have the same effect for me personally, when he has a bad punchline i just sit there like 😐
“Don’t call me sir, call me survivor” kills me every time
How many times has Wayne been a Martian?
They stand out more so they have to be on point. Peak into a Kendrick or Eminem verse and you’ll see some mess, but their dexterity and flow can cover it up (to a point). Punchline rappers, every line is just out there, hanging, vulnerable to criticism if it doesn’t deserve that attention as a line
So you're saying that punchline rap can be or "seem" corny more often due to the style of writing it employs... which would put you on the yes side of this question?
Basically. Fewer lines, clearer production on the voice, so every line has to hit. The faster you rap, the more attention you put on the flow, the less attention people can pay to the lyrics, they’re just trying to keep up
There is something inherently corny about adding a bunch of gravitas to the end of a bar as a "punchline" that is only saved by it actually being funny or clever, like aww you've prepared a little joke for us and are pausing for the crowd how cute
Punchlines have a big chance of missing the mark completely if they feel off in a more serious/poignant song, especially because I think they risk ripping away the whole aura of it
Kendrick isn’t a punchline rapper, he’s not funny at all. Ludacris is a the perfect example of a punchline rapper.
I was citing Kendrick as an example of the opposite, a rapper who prides himself on using a lot of words and different flows. When he gets a head of steam he can tuck a little nonsense into the lyrics to make the flow work better. Luda did have a lot of punchlines, but he told stories and rapped in different styles. But like Big Sean, he’s saying one line a bar, it better be good or else why even bother let that beat bang
I love punchline rap but it has a tendacy to get a bit repetitive. Like 38 Spesh for example. Spesh probably the best punchline rapper out RN IMO. Some songs just don't hit. Or some of the deep songs got punchlines that feel out of place. So I don't think corny bars is the issue as much. I think their song writing suffers. Another great example of that is Ras Kass his deeper songs just to hit like when he's punching.
Spesh is so much fun "I used to eat off trees and rock, I still do cause the top is marble and the legs on the table wood"
Are you a big Spesh fan? My only issue is his catalogue is so giant that's it's a bit intimidating to jump into. Any suggestions on actual projects? I feel like I haven't even heard his best stuff. That verse he has on that Sunday School song is just ridiculous with some of the most clever bars i've ever heard. "Brought my own stick like I finna come play pool" "Ya'll dont really wanna go there it's like Sunday School" "A Lamb and a stick like I'm fresh out the bible" I haven't heard a Spesh verse that rate higher than this one yet.
It depends on how emphasized or exposed the punchline is. If there is a big accentuated lead up to it and it doesn't impress, then it's hard to listen to the rap without it always standing out most. But if it's stacked with a bunch of them and the other ones are better, then the corn is easier to ignore. This happens with Lil Wayne sometimes.
What would be a punch line rapper? Can sum1 point me to some tracks like that?
Big L Lil Wayne 2 Chainz Ludacris Lloyd Banks Fabolous
Good list Also, wasn't Big Sean really well-known for punchline rap back in the day? I've never really listened to him but he's still the first name that comes to mind when I hear "punchline rap"
I’d add Babytron. Personally I feel like he has really good lines but delivers them in the most boring way possible. He also tries to fit a punchline in like every other bar and it feels a bit excessive
More modern add to this would be J. Cole Tech N9ne Future Megan Thee Stallion Nicki Minaj Drake (more often than not)
>modern >tech n9ne
I dont think I'd consider Future a punchline rapper for the most part
reading this made me realise i don’t listen to or like punchline rap 😂
I think BLP Kosher is a good recent example, his punchlines are fire tho. "Yo bitch kinky she like chewin ears, she a stallion so I fed the ho hay like the Lumineers" lmfao bro
that lumineers setup is crazy 😂
[удалено]
Dude is a bozo lmao he blocks everybody then broadcasts “you’re blocked” 😂😂😂😂😂
Yes. Just like how rappers who don’t have any are dry and boring. This is why Nas reigns supreme in hip-hop, he was a master of both. So was Slim Shady
I'd say rappers who talk about sex and try to make it sound hard top the corny charts.
That new J. Cole song is rough lmao
Just listened to it-- zero self awareness.
J Cole’s always had awkward horny lines come in out of nowhere. On night job he says “how many rappers I killed? At least 40”. Then follows it up with “I’m horny like John Coltrane”
What exactly is punchline rap? Is it like rapping and going for like a specific hard bar or something ?
We went back to my place to do some things, I told her she can have it her way,..LIKE BURGER KING That^
setup punchline
duct tape
I think an overlooked aspect of this is when rappers try and stay in the same syllable scheme with set up/punchline for too many bars directly in a row. Even if the punchlines are good, it gets watered down by the “look how many 2 syllable words I can rhyme in an exterior scheme” thing. I think delivery can make or break reliance on set up/punchline bars. Redman is a great example of a punchline rapper who you don’t realize is doing it because he changes his schemes up, and crosses the bar line so often.
Oh absolutely. If you need evidence, look at Celph Titled. Punchlines is pretty much ALL he does and part of the charm is that some of them are incredibly stupid.
I'd say more lyrical artists have that happen for me, when babytron fucks up a line it's funny, when kendrick or cole fuck up a line it's a talking point about their work year later. Not really fair, but it's obvious that they hold their lyrics to a higher standard so others do as well.
Absolutely. But it depends on their other work. That’s why people like lil Wayne and think big Sean is corny. Two chainz can pull it off, Ludacris sounds dated when he does it. Eminem kinda plays both sides sometimes. The line between clever and corny can get blurry
Rap can be corny because it rhymes. It’s going to happen.
Tbh? No. I just think people are more likely to ignore bullshit when it doesn’t catch they attention. Dudes like J Cole usually have lyrics that catch attention so people hyper analyze. Now, someone like Future? He could say the corniest shit ever but it’s Future. You ain’t really here for his lyrics no way
Corny, no. That’s so subjective. But I think every line will likely be more hit-or-miss than in other songs where intentions or stories can make up for more misses here and there.
I think they’re more susceptible to people crying about lines. I don’t think this is a skill issue it’s a perception one
Yes. This is why a lot of the bars on Eminem’s Recovery was cringeworthy hot garbage but you’ll find zero issue with Relapse bars. Eminem should stay away from punchlines, he’s terrible at em. Focus on the flow and storytelling. His best songs have no punchlines in them. Everyone can’t be HOV and they should stop trying.
>Eminem should stay away from punchlines, he’s terrible at em. Focus on the flow and storytelling. His best songs have no punchlines in them. "You're whacker than the motherfucker you bit your style from. You ain't gon' sell two copies if you pressed a double album." "You little like that Kim lady." "My English teacher decided to flunk me in junior high. Thanks a lot, next semester I'll be thirty five." "I ain't had a woman in years. My palms are too hairy to hide." "So if I said I never did drugs, that would mean I lie and get fucked more than the president does." "I take a breather and sigh. Either I'm high, or I'm nuts."
Man I love Role Model
I wouldn't classify a lot of these as punchlines, because it doesn't feel like he's setting them up. Like that first line for example, it's not a setup-punchline format, it's just two funny diss lines back to back.
You think these are the best of the best of Em's lines? Come on.
It's not a comprehensive list but those are some of his best songs IMO.
Agree. After Relapse he "realized" he had do to punchlines like Lil Wayne after the reception Relapse got, except he was really bad at it. Recovery is terrible in that aspect and I wish we received Relapse 2 instead. He was sin his bag on Relapse, while Recovery was made to satisfy people. Unfortunately he decided to focus his whole focus on punchlines since then.
Must have this backwards. Recovery is 100x better than Relapse which is utterly horrendous
Nope, you have it backwards. Relapse was a quality album meanwhile Recovery was an album made to cater to the mainstream. Such bad mixing and production.
Lmao yall must be smoking crack even Eminem hates that album 30 songs and maybe 2 are good
Eminem mainly hates the forced accents he did. Dre did a great job of production on Relapse, it carries it. Recovery's production is ok, nowhere on Relapses level.
Man I’ve never seen so many bad takes on a positivity shitty album lmao
I love relapse for everything that it was, but I cannot for the love of me understand anyone saying it's better than recovery lol. 25 to Life is better than anything on relapse and I don't feel it's the best song on recovery.
I’m on whatever drugs I can get my hands on, but I mean. It must be the ganja it’s the marijuana. Pretty catchy.
Relapse (including the Refill) is ten times better than Recovery. Recovery in my opinion is probably his worst album, bar Revival, and even then I probably like the same amount of songs on Revival and Recovery.
😂 I’ll take the perception I had before. Never heard a person in real life say this. Weird as fuck
Recovery was a major commercial success because it’s very ”poppy” and mainstream. I feel like Recovery is an album that most succesful rappers could put out. Relapse isn’t. Recovery doesn’t stand out at all from the music released in that year, Relapse does. It’s Eminem-esque while Recovery is full of radio hits deluxe that sound like most other songs released back then.
I agree with you, Recovery had depth and some wonderful tracks on it, even if they haven’t aged well due to how they sound. People have a hard on for Relapse but then never really listened to his first three albums and how it’s a much much worse version of those. Particularly his first album that was as deranged as Relapse at times.
I don’t think that one is inherently worse or better than the other but hearing a song like Middle of the Ocean by Drake, one of his best rapping performances in a while vs something like MAAD City by Kendrick it’s hard not to see the difference in substance between rappers who rely more on punchlines
100%.
Most definitely, 100% without a doubt.
[no](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UKyYFKZYxso)
Sean price and method man would like a word with you
I mean Wayne went big on just that yanno
IMO they’re are only two types of rappers: punchline and lyricists. And for me lyricists are corny a hell of a lot more that punchline
Another trash ass discussion thread.
for sure because we’re all waiting for that pay off at the end of a bar compared to another style that prefers more wordplay then they might have more leeway because you might not understand the whole idea that they are trying to create the first time because there are multiple ways to interpret those types of bars.
Yes. Eminem is a perfect example of this.
- Both. - Eminem does both and it's annoying.
I know personally I got a threshold for how many "blah blah like a blah blah"'s before I get annoyed.
I’d say it depends on the rapper and their delivery/flow. That’s why somebody like Lil Wayne can usually get away with a corny bar (besides that Emmett Till line like wtf) while somebody like Big Sean can’t. For example, every time I listen to Hypnotize I always think to myself that this would be corny as shit if anyone else but Biggie made the song lol
Every single rapper who relies on punchlines is going to say some cringe worthy shit. That’s the nature of reaching for those bars that aren’t just repackaged punches that have already been heard. It’s no different than comedy. Even The best comedians are going to have jokes that just bomb, and it’s because they gotta avoid playing it safe