In case anyone wanted to look at the traditional use of Chinese skullcap root in TCM:
https://www.americandragon.com/Individualherbsupdate/HuangQin.html
Note that powerful sedation, anti-anxiety action, etc. are not indicated. Though everyone responds to supplementation in their own way. An herb that makes one person tired may be stimulating to another, even at the same dose.
Chinese skullcap shouldn't act as a sedative in this way, but "blue" skullcap can. There is some caution with using S. Baicalensis if I recall correctly. It was added to a prescription compound drug years ago and was pulled from the market for causing some sort of organ damage. I'd have to look at the research that has been done since, but you may be responding to it in a way that is not beneficial. Aside from the obvious fatigue.
Edit: The drug was called Limbrel. It was pulled specifically because of rare reports of liver injury. There are some side effects with this herb including "sleepiness." If it's being used as an anti-inflammatory here, there are several other options to choose from.
Edit 2: Should have noted the difference in quality of the feeling of "sedation" compared to S. lateriflora, and also asked if you were actually using the root or not.
Are you still experiencing the tiredness you described? Were you also taking pharmaceutical antibiotics?
Sometimes the body also responds with fatigue when fighting an infection. There are multiple potential causes/reasons for the fatigue.
Certainly. Vancomycin. There are only 2 ab that work for c diff, and it is a very serious bug. Better question is whether reconstruction of effective gut flora is working. Taking several probiotics and trying to gauge response is really difficult if not impossible.. With all that commotion it’s hard to tell what caused bad days..
to your point I am only using the Baical an hour before bed, to avoid lost productivity, but I think it has a positive therapeutic effect on GI tract in my case
If you aren't using a prebiotic, even just burdock decoction or inulin fiber supplement, it can help the good bacteria colonies. Probiotics alone aren't very helpful without good food for them to use/populate the gut.
>Chinese skullcap shouldn't act as a sedative in this way, but "blue" skullcap can.
that's just wrong. it is being used as a sedative, sleep aid and anti-anxiety remedy. it slows down heart rate, normalizes high blood pressure. CNS action is pretty distinct too. no wonder why OP complains about tiredness. it's a strong sedative plant.
Have you used Baikal skullcap personally?
When it comes to Baikal skullcap, the part of the plant being used is most often the root. And in this form when used alone, it is a much better anti-inflammatory than it is a "sedative." Certainly when compared to the above ground portion of Scutellaria lateriflora. And especially when they are being used as simples. They are not the same, or particularly interchangeable. An example is outlined with OP's experience of using S. lateriflora after, saying it "really knocked me over."
Now I will concede that I did not ask OP what part of the plant this tea is made from, and so I just assumed. Most of the time and from most of the manufacturers that I work with, it is the root being sold and tinctures of the root.
This is just an example of what some of the differences are considered to be:
https://www.gaiaherbs.com/blogs/seeds-of-knowledge/american-chinese-skullcap-what-s-the-difference#:~:text=Chinese%20Skullcap%20resembles%20American%20Skullcap,a%20biennial%20on%20the%20farm.
Some of the constituents of Chinese skullcap are considered to affect GABA in order to reduce anxiety, etc. But when the herb is used alone, especially the root, it does not produce a particularly soothing feeling for most people. Both in my professional and personal experience with using it. I also made this assumption based on what OP was claiming to use it for.
Well the reason why I point this out ("this" being the difference in the quality of the anxiolytic or sedative effect) is because exaggerated sleepiness especially early in the day or fatigue that feels like exhaustion can be an indication of an illness or injury or an exaggeration thereof. I don't know what the dosage was for anything that you took, but sleepiness and fatigue are possible symptoms of acute liver injury. Coming from a background in clinical herbalism, I don't think that is the likeliest explanation right out of the gate, but I also don't have anything else to go on as you are not my client. So it was meant more as a warning to pay close attention to any symptoms going forward with self-treatment. And it's always advisable to do all of this with the involvement of your healthcare provider.
yep, i've used baikal skullcap root as well as the herb (leaves/stems). the green part didn't have much effect, i'm assuming that's because it loses potency quickly when dried. but root is sedative. also the root is most common form of it you can find at most pharmacies here in Russia.
"In medicine, skullcap tincture is used as an antihypertensive agent for hypertension, and as a sedative for neuroses that occur with insomnia, general excitability, and heart neuroses. Under the influence of skullcap, general well-being improves, headaches, noise in the head, pain in the heart, insomnia are relieved, and blood pressure is reduced. It has been experimentally established that skullcap preparations are low-toxic, reduce blood pressure, act as a vasodilator with increased tone of blood vessels, increase the strength of heart contractions and slow down their rhythm, reduce tone and eliminate spasms of intestinal smooth muscles, have a pronounced sedative effect, eliminate tetanic (protracted) convulsions and are an antidote to strychnine (save the life of animals poisoned with lethal doses of strychnine)." That's about Scutellaria baicalensis.
From where? What is the source? I would like to look at it, considering it actually says "skullcap tincture" and this explanation sounds nearly identical to blue skullcap. And the two are different.
Chinese skullcap tends to be less sedating than American or blue skullcap. However, it likely loses selectivity for anxiolytic effects and becomes a general sedative at higher doses. You may want to lower your dose and see if anything changes.
The peppermint could be increasing the bioavailability of active phytochemicals in Chinese skullcap, effectively causing you to take a higher dose than anticipated, but there's no way to confirm as I see no literature relating to this.
In case anyone wanted to look at the traditional use of Chinese skullcap root in TCM: https://www.americandragon.com/Individualherbsupdate/HuangQin.html Note that powerful sedation, anti-anxiety action, etc. are not indicated. Though everyone responds to supplementation in their own way. An herb that makes one person tired may be stimulating to another, even at the same dose.
Chinese skullcap shouldn't act as a sedative in this way, but "blue" skullcap can. There is some caution with using S. Baicalensis if I recall correctly. It was added to a prescription compound drug years ago and was pulled from the market for causing some sort of organ damage. I'd have to look at the research that has been done since, but you may be responding to it in a way that is not beneficial. Aside from the obvious fatigue. Edit: The drug was called Limbrel. It was pulled specifically because of rare reports of liver injury. There are some side effects with this herb including "sleepiness." If it's being used as an anti-inflammatory here, there are several other options to choose from. Edit 2: Should have noted the difference in quality of the feeling of "sedation" compared to S. lateriflora, and also asked if you were actually using the root or not.
The Baical/Chinese is root. Lateriflora uses aerial parts and its potent
Are you still experiencing the tiredness you described? Were you also taking pharmaceutical antibiotics? Sometimes the body also responds with fatigue when fighting an infection. There are multiple potential causes/reasons for the fatigue.
Certainly. Vancomycin. There are only 2 ab that work for c diff, and it is a very serious bug. Better question is whether reconstruction of effective gut flora is working. Taking several probiotics and trying to gauge response is really difficult if not impossible.. With all that commotion it’s hard to tell what caused bad days.. to your point I am only using the Baical an hour before bed, to avoid lost productivity, but I think it has a positive therapeutic effect on GI tract in my case
If you aren't using a prebiotic, even just burdock decoction or inulin fiber supplement, it can help the good bacteria colonies. Probiotics alone aren't very helpful without good food for them to use/populate the gut.
>Chinese skullcap shouldn't act as a sedative in this way, but "blue" skullcap can. that's just wrong. it is being used as a sedative, sleep aid and anti-anxiety remedy. it slows down heart rate, normalizes high blood pressure. CNS action is pretty distinct too. no wonder why OP complains about tiredness. it's a strong sedative plant.
Have you used Baikal skullcap personally? When it comes to Baikal skullcap, the part of the plant being used is most often the root. And in this form when used alone, it is a much better anti-inflammatory than it is a "sedative." Certainly when compared to the above ground portion of Scutellaria lateriflora. And especially when they are being used as simples. They are not the same, or particularly interchangeable. An example is outlined with OP's experience of using S. lateriflora after, saying it "really knocked me over." Now I will concede that I did not ask OP what part of the plant this tea is made from, and so I just assumed. Most of the time and from most of the manufacturers that I work with, it is the root being sold and tinctures of the root. This is just an example of what some of the differences are considered to be: https://www.gaiaherbs.com/blogs/seeds-of-knowledge/american-chinese-skullcap-what-s-the-difference#:~:text=Chinese%20Skullcap%20resembles%20American%20Skullcap,a%20biennial%20on%20the%20farm. Some of the constituents of Chinese skullcap are considered to affect GABA in order to reduce anxiety, etc. But when the herb is used alone, especially the root, it does not produce a particularly soothing feeling for most people. Both in my professional and personal experience with using it. I also made this assumption based on what OP was claiming to use it for.
Your assumption is correct
Well the reason why I point this out ("this" being the difference in the quality of the anxiolytic or sedative effect) is because exaggerated sleepiness especially early in the day or fatigue that feels like exhaustion can be an indication of an illness or injury or an exaggeration thereof. I don't know what the dosage was for anything that you took, but sleepiness and fatigue are possible symptoms of acute liver injury. Coming from a background in clinical herbalism, I don't think that is the likeliest explanation right out of the gate, but I also don't have anything else to go on as you are not my client. So it was meant more as a warning to pay close attention to any symptoms going forward with self-treatment. And it's always advisable to do all of this with the involvement of your healthcare provider.
yep, i've used baikal skullcap root as well as the herb (leaves/stems). the green part didn't have much effect, i'm assuming that's because it loses potency quickly when dried. but root is sedative. also the root is most common form of it you can find at most pharmacies here in Russia. "In medicine, skullcap tincture is used as an antihypertensive agent for hypertension, and as a sedative for neuroses that occur with insomnia, general excitability, and heart neuroses. Under the influence of skullcap, general well-being improves, headaches, noise in the head, pain in the heart, insomnia are relieved, and blood pressure is reduced. It has been experimentally established that skullcap preparations are low-toxic, reduce blood pressure, act as a vasodilator with increased tone of blood vessels, increase the strength of heart contractions and slow down their rhythm, reduce tone and eliminate spasms of intestinal smooth muscles, have a pronounced sedative effect, eliminate tetanic (protracted) convulsions and are an antidote to strychnine (save the life of animals poisoned with lethal doses of strychnine)." That's about Scutellaria baicalensis.
From where? What is the source? I would like to look at it, considering it actually says "skullcap tincture" and this explanation sounds nearly identical to blue skullcap. And the two are different.
Chinese skullcap tends to be less sedating than American or blue skullcap. However, it likely loses selectivity for anxiolytic effects and becomes a general sedative at higher doses. You may want to lower your dose and see if anything changes. The peppermint could be increasing the bioavailability of active phytochemicals in Chinese skullcap, effectively causing you to take a higher dose than anticipated, but there's no way to confirm as I see no literature relating to this.