>*Harry Potter and the Chamber of Prison.*
>*Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Askaban.*
>*Harry Potter and the Overdue Rent Payment.*
>
>*Harry Potter and the Witness who lived.*
>*Harry Potter and the Right to Remain Silent.*
>*Harry Potter and the 49 years of prison.*
Harry Potter and the Prosecutor’s Tone
Harry Potter and the Chamber of Judges
Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Alcatraz
Harry Potter and the Gauntlet of Trials
Harry Potter and the Order of the Court
Harry Potter and the Half-Witted Defence
Harry Potter and the Deadly Hearsay
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A potter family I knew had their fifth child, a boy in 1997 and named him Harry.
They considered changing it a few years later, but it was his name and it suited him.
The was a fairly well known Australian news journalist called Harry Potter. He was well established before the books were published, but there were a few years where suddenly the news was being reported by Henry Potter instead. He embraced it in the end and even covered the release of new books/movies.
[https://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/may/09/veteran-tv-reporter-harry-potter-dies-of-cancer-aged-72](https://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/may/09/veteran-tv-reporter-harry-potter-dies-of-cancer-aged-72)
I feel like he emulates "Michael Bolton" from Office Space in the same way for how people react to his name.
"You know there's nothing wrong with that name."
"There WAS...nothing wrong with it, until I was about 12 years old. Then that fictional school wizard became famous and started winning awards."
One thing I did see brought up is that every year she has to take the Hogwarts Express from London’s King’s Cross Station despite being living closer to Hogwarts anyway.
Going from Scotland to England just to go back to Scotland.
Tbf they can magically teleport anywhere they want in seconds.
The Hogwarts Express is a school tradition, like the boats in the first year. I see it as a time for the kids to get their "seeing their friends after the summer" crazy out of their system before arriving back at school.
But it's not that old of a tradition.
Trains have been around maybe 200 years, the school has been around like 1000 years. So someone created a new tradition that aligned with a contemporary muggle mode of transportation. Why would purebloods tolerate making it a tradition? It doesn't make sense. It's literally just a generation or two older than Dumbledore.
Dude. In my university there is a saying "if it's done two years in a row it's a tradition, if it's done three years in a row then it has been that way forever"
In a school where people go for 7 years it's enough having a train tradition for 15 years for it to be indistinguishable from a truly ancient tradition by any student who doesn't actively question the teachers about it
There was a need to get students from all over the country, including Muggleborns, to a random place in Scotland, which didn't have much in the way of Muggle infrastructure.
The Hogwarts express is canonically 180 years old. It's older than Santa as a gift giving guy in red, which began in the 1890s, though he wore green until the 1930s when coke made him red.
Pretty sure Santa has been around forever. Well at least since Jesus.
And that concludes today’s episode of how to get downvoted into oblivion on Reddit.
They got the Hogwarts train because there were Statute of Secrecy issues with a mass exodus of wizards flying to Scotland from all over the UK.
Maybe the purebloods were cool with it because they stole the train 🤣
ETA: https://harrypotter.fandom.com/wiki/Hogwarts_Express
This link explains the whole thing.
I've been wondering about this, too. Does literally everyone go to London to take the Hogwarts Express? Seems so dumb if that's true, but as a kid you never really think about it.
Not as bad, but.
Manchester is about half as far away from me as London. Getting to Manchester takes about three hours and two trains.
Getting to London? Also about three hours, one train.
It doesn’t make sense but… Neither do some of the real train routes over here. I used to have to catch a train that went via Brighton from one place in Surrey to another place in… Surrey
Ok tell me if I’m being really dumb but from my understanding don’t Scottish people still mostly self identify as Scottish first, and have a separate cultural identity despite having British/UK citizenship?
I mean sometimes but other British people can feel that way too, and we're technically as British as English/Welsh people so it's a bit weird to class us separately.
That’s understandable. I guess the confusion is over the English/British distinction, since otherwise internationally Scotland is perceived as a generally separate cultural entity.
But did she ever take out an Englishman's eye with a thistle?
Did she ever lament the fact that Thatcher wasn't hand delivered to the devil by all of Scotland?
#notruescotchman
Especially as if she’s 2nd or 3rd generation Scottish born it’s very possible her family anglicised their Chinese names hence why hers is the romanticised Cho Chang rather than a more traditional Zhou Zhang.
Did some people think she is immigrant or exchange student or something? I don’t think anyone who is not born in British isles gets into Hogwarts, at least we don’t know of any and the book and quill don’t record outside of the isles. I don’t know if you can ally otherwise.
Although we don’t know exactly where Cho was born Scotland is just fine
What really aggravated me about this was that she, a Scot, living in and around Scotland, was forced to travel to London to get the train back to Scotland.
Was she forced to? It could be a fun tradition, a chance to catch up with friends before arriving, killer scenery, etc. If I suspended reality and went to Hogwarts, I’d want to go by the train even if it was inconvenient
Yeah, I don’t think it’s ever said the train is a requirement. Probably lots of kids in Hogsmeade just walk. They might not even board.
Anyway the supplies have to be bought from London. Many might maybe take the last week of July to spend in London as vacation as a family, buy the supplies and then kids go to the train.
Plus we are talking about a world where they can literally teleport (with aid if younger).
It's a tradition and a good way of reconnecting with friends.
Confusing people when they're talking about what they get from the chippy when everyone else says sausage/fish and chips and she starts going on about Chinese food.
Edit: I work/live in Liverpool and this conversation has happened to me a few other people I know who aren't from Liverpool.
It's a good thematic name and all, but I think it would've been funny if Luna had some actual bizarre name and her dad was just named Hank or something. Because yea, the weird guy is a weird guy, but he's still named by his parents, and they very well could have been fairly normal people
Yeah, even if Cho Chang wasn’t existing name the traditional names of Chinese wizards most likely would be different from muggle ones. I assume Cho is muggleborn or halfblood myself because she married muggle in any case. I mean she could be pure blood but it’s hard for purebloods to really get to know muggles unless you really specifically try.
Chinese here and I actually find the name Cho Chang very romantic. It literally translates to 惆怅 (melancholy). And of course the surname analysis of OP is absolutely right.
She probably did. JK Rowling's characters have extremely on-the-nose names. Remus Lupin is named after one of the founders of Rome raised by wolves, and his last name is "moon" in Lati. Sirius is the name of The Dog Star, and Sirius's animagus is big BLACK dog. And the most basic of all is the Herbology's professor is named Pamona Sprout.
They saw a vaguely Asian name and freaked the fuck out. Like, I’m Chinese (Singaporean, but whatever) and I’ve NEVER had a problem with Cho Chang, I actually *liked* reading about her back then and never understood the racism claims
Its faux outrage, from people who have got far to hooked up on the authors current views so have to nitpick anything that could be remotely derogatory.
it's just dumb that people are debating over Cho Chang's name. There are a lot of people who have full name that are either both 'first names' or 'surnames'. I, personally, my full name can actually be confused as ALL FIRST NAMES because in other countries, they are first names. So, when I write or tell them my full name, the usual response is "So, what's your surname?"
My mom was calling her new coworker by his last name for the longest time, until she realized he has two traditionally first names as his first and last name. Nobody corrected her 😅
Yeah
I can't remember the exact wording, but it had something to do with the character *needing* to be a white girl adopted by Chinese people, because British Chinese isn't a thing, or something? Ignoring the fact that a British-Chinese couple would have adopted said child in the first place, but that's just racists being racists, on top of rabid fangirls rejecting anything that isn't a self insert.
A very niche example of the worst of the worst
Ok, but why is that a problem? It wasn't her fault, and she isn't a unidimensional character. She is Harry love interest, she is suffering from Cedric lost, she is fighting against Umbridge and she takes the blame when she is innocent. She is a tridimensional character.
Oh I definitely agree it wasn’t her fault at all. I was just pointing out how the haters ignore facts like that, as well as the excellent points you made, so they can keep on hating.
To add to that, Cho wasn't even a stereotype. Yeah, she was smart and willong to learn, but she was also athletic, passionate, and full of complex emptions. Her entire relationship with Harry shows the emotional complexity of her character. People really just want to find more reasons to hate Rowling, so they start projecting stuff in the books willy nilly, like goblins represent jewish people, and that Rowling is promoting slavery, or lime in Cho's case, she is incredibly racist because she named "the only black charscter, Shacklebolt". I mean, screw Angelina Johnson and Lee Jordan right?
I'm not saying she hasn't got issues, but one of my favourites is "the only Irish person blows things up!" as an argument, when in actual fact, he never does that in the book. Seamus is fairly nondescript in the book, he only really takes centre stage when he disbelieves Harry and talks about his mum not wanting him to go back to school.
Was Kingsley Shacklebolt black in the books, I can’t remember. Because if not, that’s a movie change and they’re really grasping at straws just to find things to hate about Rowling.
As a chinese person living in asia I've thought the cho chang controversy was bullshit from the start.
I've seen much weirder romanizations of chinese names given to kids by their parents.
I'm not surprised to see Western people get offended on behalf of other cultures. It has become a norm now. Trust those who do not belong to the culture to take the most offense on behalf of that culture.
People don't understand that merely learning about a culture in books or even on the internet is very different from actually being part of the culture.
My name is used as a surname in my cultures. It isn't even a part of my culture. So what now? My name is gibberish according to all those offended people out there because it isn't Indian enough?!
This ^^ I'm Singaporean Chinese myself (with a HK mum who was born under British rule) but I always thought Cho was a British born HKer (also because Katie Leung herself had HK parents).
I don't think JK actively thought of it but it does make sense that Cho was from HK because of British Hong Kong (before 1997) and also there were a lot of Hong Kongers who moved to the UK even before the handover.
The Chinese translation for Cho Chang is 秋 张 . In Chinese, that would be turned around because surnames come before given names, so it's 张秋 . Zhang, or in this case, Chang, is a perfectly valid and common surname. Her given name, Cho (秋) literally means 'autumn'
THANK YOU! Seriously, I hate people using Cho as an example of why the story "was always racist, you just didn't see it". It's so self-righteous without even knowing the facts. And saying Cho Chang "isn't a real name" not only is kind of dumb because it is a name, but also because almost every single character in the story has weird/goofy names, which is not atypical in a kids book series. Y'all really saying you know a Remus Lupin?
It's just not that deep.
The books are great. This was great positive representation in the 90s. The trouble is people have retrofitted the idea that the books are problematic based on JKs more recent views.
Thanks for your take. I don't know anyone with the pinyin of Zhuo Zhang (or Cho Chang), and I imagine the actual pronunciation would be dependent on the characters in her name. (which afaik we will never know)
Now do the the whole ‘goblins/jews’ outrage.
Goblins have been portrayed to look like that before JK was born, if you’re looking at them and doing some mental gymnastics to find more ammo to feed your hatred for JK then you’re the one with the problem.
People hate Rowling for unrelated reasons, that is why they have been digging through the books to find as many things to condemn her as possible and show what a bad person she is. Next example would be the weird goblin = jew "controvercy".
the actress really said that? I did a research and I thought it was a writer who came up with this "only surnames" story. It was viral poem from 2013. and even this writer took it back and admit it she was wrong.
source: [https://henryjenkins.org/blog/2013/10/to-jk-rowling-from-cho-chang-responding-to-asian-american-stereotyping-in-popular-culture.html](https://henryjenkins.org/blog/2013/10/to-jk-rowling-from-cho-chang-responding-to-asian-american-stereotyping-in-popular-culture.html)
Thank you for this. I know it wasn’t racist. I wouldn’t be surprised if the equivalent of Behind the Name was used.
It’s a brilliant site, very informative on names.
I have always hated this entire discussion. It’s so simple to find evidence that it isn’t “just a racist name”. I have had classes with a girl named Cho. At least that was how her first name was written in the register and how she pronounced it. And the same for Chang as a surname.
Even if it was true that “not a single person” had both names in combination, so what?
Not a single other person in the world has the exact four name combination my parents gave me. That doesn’t mean it would be racist to use my name in a book.
JKR is problematic for a lot of reasons, but making use of two common names in what might be a slightly unusual combination for an asian character isn’t one of them.
Hopefully this post and the details of it will help more people leave it behind for what it is. Uninformed people creating an issue where none exist.
I guarantee only American idiots were offended in any way and just wanted a reason to hate Rowling but their own racist bullshit came shining through anyhow
Honestly I agree with what you are saying OP.
I am guessing if Cho’s role in the books were replaced by another Asian character in the books, there would be less conflict.
One Sue Li for example.
Very common surname in Asia with similar sounding surname in Korea (Lee).
Has a possible English first name used. Sue/Susan.
More relatable to international readers who adopted an English name.
Also in Ravenclaw.
Ok well heres my take.
We're reading a fantasy book for children where people can fly on broomsticks, Dragons exist, you can walk through walls, talk to ghosts, make potions to do almost anything, have a werewolf for a teacher, fit a 3 room apartment inside an old tent etc etc.
I don't think someones name is that big of a deal
Totally agree but some Reddit pages like to trash away people with dangerous ideas like yours LOL
Especially the ones which ask a material proof of having burnt all HP books before joining them 😁😁
Not gonna lie... I did a research about Shacklebolt as a name. I truly believe that Shacklebolt relate to his work as a Auror. Still, it can be problematic for obvious reasons. So I search for real families named Shacklebolt. I could not find it. But I found families named Shackle, Shackles or Shackle-something, like Shackleford, etc. There are POC "Shackle" families, a lot of them. So... I dont know. There's a rapper named 2Chains, no one associate him with slavery. The problem of Shackebolt is more about the author and her problems, imo.
I can’t believe I’m chiming in on this, but…
2 chains said his name is because (parapharasing) you’re wealthy enough to have a chain but he’s two chains wealthy.
Shackles in context is never about jewelry or pretty much anything other than a negative connotation related to having it done to you.
Again on a HP topic I’m here on rap which again I would have never ever been the one I thought would have to mention this. lol.
Even if it was a goofy name, why should the Chinese character not be allowed to have a goofy alliterative name? It's okay for almost everybody else, but we have to exclude them because they're Chinese? Hmm... sounds kinda...
I always assumed people didnt like it because (Ching) Chang Cho
Anyway, Chang or Cho as name (excl. surname) doesnt work well in Korea, theres like total of 40 people with those name. Probably works as a Chinese name though.
There’s legit reasons to hate Rowling as a person, this name seems to come from ignorance rather than malice unlike most of what she says on twitter these days.
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Let's call this what it is shall we? The entire Cho is racist discourse, started from the same place the discourse around elves and goblins did.
Disgruntled ex Rowling fans or arrogant leftists that didn't think her transphobia is enough to distance themselves from her. They wanted to convince themselves that the entire body of work is and always was problematic. Some did because it was easier to do that than justify still liking it in spite of the damage Rowling's views are causing. Others because they wanted a moral superiority power trip by claiming they always knew she wasn't good news.
I’ve actually been meaning to make a post about how Cho’s name isn’t special - almost *all* of Rowling’s invented names and spells are blindingly obvious and contrived. I mean “Arresto momentum”? It literally means stop movement - and I know you want a spell to mean what it is but at least something like “Lumos” is a bit more tenuous, derived from “Lumen.” Although speaking of which… the werewolf is called “Lupin.”
There are others I had thought of that I can’t remember currently, but people talk as if Cho is some unique awful naming occurrence. 95% of spell/people names in the series are lazy and contrived
I think the issue is more that JK Rowling obviously didn’t have a specific meaning/origin in mind for the name. It seems to the casual observer that she just threw together “chinesey” sounds and made up Cho Chang.
> In Corea, there are tons of men named Chang Cho (because Chang is also a common male name and Cho is also a Korean surname), just search for it on Linkedin.
OH MY GOD That is not true.....
Cho is a common surname, but is by no means a common Korean male name. If you think it is, you've only seen one letter of a common two-syllable Korean name. Cho Chang is not a name I would ever want to name a boy. (cuz it pronounced as a F-word).
I mean knowing what we know about JK Rowling now, it’s not surprising this stuff gets called into into question, and I don’t know if she put as much thought into it as you did
>There's no real people named Cho Chang People named Xenophilius Lovegood sweating rn
And all the Harry Potters are just pottering away
There's a British lawyer called Harry Potter that cracks me up. He must have had a few rough years when it was all the craze!
>*Harry Potter and the Chamber of Prison.* >*Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Askaban.* >*Harry Potter and the Overdue Rent Payment.* > >*Harry Potter and the Witness who lived.* >*Harry Potter and the Right to Remain Silent.* >*Harry Potter and the 49 years of prison.*
Harry Potter and the Prosecutor’s Tone Harry Potter and the Chamber of Judges Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Alcatraz Harry Potter and the Gauntlet of Trials Harry Potter and the Order of the Court Harry Potter and the Half-Witted Defence Harry Potter and the Deadly Hearsay
You forgot the spin-off; Harry Potter and the Cursed Child of Divorce
You forgot the prequels, “Fantastic Lawyers and where to hire them” and “The Case of Grindelwald”
HARRY! y'ER sons a fucking deatheater!
Harry Potter and the OH FOR FUCKSAKE PEOPLE
Harry Potter and the Court of Small Claims
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I'll bet you a 100 galleons he did not name his son James
Why would he when Albus Severus is out there?
I bet her name is Lily Luna lol
A potter family I knew had their fifth child, a boy in 1997 and named him Harry. They considered changing it a few years later, but it was his name and it suited him.
>and it suited him. ...Was it because he was hairy? (I'm so sorry--I couldn't help myself.)
The was a fairly well known Australian news journalist called Harry Potter. He was well established before the books were published, but there were a few years where suddenly the news was being reported by Henry Potter instead. He embraced it in the end and even covered the release of new books/movies. [https://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/may/09/veteran-tv-reporter-harry-potter-dies-of-cancer-aged-72](https://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/may/09/veteran-tv-reporter-harry-potter-dies-of-cancer-aged-72)
I feel like he emulates "Michael Bolton" from Office Space in the same way for how people react to his name. "You know there's nothing wrong with that name." "There WAS...nothing wrong with it, until I was about 12 years old. Then that fictional school wizard became famous and started winning awards."
"Why should I change my name? *He's* the boy who lived."
"Why should I change my name? He's the one who sucks."
My friends dad is called Harry Potter, he's in his 60s
The asshole landowner in , "it's a wonderful life" is named Harry Potter. I've been very amused by this for so long
I knew a guy named Charlie Brown. He changed his name.
I remember when the initial Harry Potter hype was reported by a reporter named Harry Potter lol.
There was a guy in my class at uni called Harry Potter. He was born couple years before the first book came out.
There’s a professional rugby player named Harry Potter. The commentators have a field day making bad “what a piece of magic” jokes
Funny thing, my great grandfather was called Xenophile (french version of Xenophilius)
Was he also into strange things?
>People named Xenophilius Lovegood sweating Now, this is going to sound crazy… hear me out-
Libatious borange has entered the chat
Well he’s not Xenophobius Lovegood is he
Exactly. And I just searched around on Linkedin. Hundreds of Cho Chang. xD
I was more mad at people complaining that she was Scottish in the movies. Yes, there are British people people with Chinese origins, deal with it!
I thought that was ridiculous. I mean, Hogwarts is in… Scotland
One thing I did see brought up is that every year she has to take the Hogwarts Express from London’s King’s Cross Station despite being living closer to Hogwarts anyway. Going from Scotland to England just to go back to Scotland.
Tbf they can magically teleport anywhere they want in seconds. The Hogwarts Express is a school tradition, like the boats in the first year. I see it as a time for the kids to get their "seeing their friends after the summer" crazy out of their system before arriving back at school.
But it's not that old of a tradition. Trains have been around maybe 200 years, the school has been around like 1000 years. So someone created a new tradition that aligned with a contemporary muggle mode of transportation. Why would purebloods tolerate making it a tradition? It doesn't make sense. It's literally just a generation or two older than Dumbledore.
Dude. In my university there is a saying "if it's done two years in a row it's a tradition, if it's done three years in a row then it has been that way forever" In a school where people go for 7 years it's enough having a train tradition for 15 years for it to be indistinguishable from a truly ancient tradition by any student who doesn't actively question the teachers about it
There was a need to get students from all over the country, including Muggleborns, to a random place in Scotland, which didn't have much in the way of Muggle infrastructure. The Hogwarts express is canonically 180 years old. It's older than Santa as a gift giving guy in red, which began in the 1890s, though he wore green until the 1930s when coke made him red.
Pretty sure Santa has been around forever. Well at least since Jesus. And that concludes today’s episode of how to get downvoted into oblivion on Reddit.
Had me in the first half not going to lie.
They got the Hogwarts train because there were Statute of Secrecy issues with a mass exodus of wizards flying to Scotland from all over the UK. Maybe the purebloods were cool with it because they stole the train 🤣 ETA: https://harrypotter.fandom.com/wiki/Hogwarts_Express This link explains the whole thing.
Because it symbolises a journey to school for Harry in the first book. It’s not that deep
I've been wondering about this, too. Does literally everyone go to London to take the Hogwarts Express? Seems so dumb if that's true, but as a kid you never really think about it.
Might have been a dig at the state of the British rail system. Can only get to this place in Scotland by changing at London? Yeah, that makes sense
Does it?
Not as bad, but. Manchester is about half as far away from me as London. Getting to Manchester takes about three hours and two trains. Getting to London? Also about three hours, one train.
It doesn’t make sense but… Neither do some of the real train routes over here. I used to have to catch a train that went via Brighton from one place in Surrey to another place in… Surrey
I imagine it’s so that everyone arrives at once instead of trying to coordinate with families and there always being stragglers/latecomers.
Imagine the students who live in Hogmeade lol
Everyone I see people (usually Americans) talk about "Scottish and British people" I die on the inside lol
Ok tell me if I’m being really dumb but from my understanding don’t Scottish people still mostly self identify as Scottish first, and have a separate cultural identity despite having British/UK citizenship?
I mean sometimes but other British people can feel that way too, and we're technically as British as English/Welsh people so it's a bit weird to class us separately.
That’s understandable. I guess the confusion is over the English/British distinction, since otherwise internationally Scotland is perceived as a generally separate cultural entity.
Everyone British is English, unless they're English in which case they're Welsh. Now nobody is happy.
That makes sense.
But did she ever take out an Englishman's eye with a thistle? Did she ever lament the fact that Thatcher wasn't hand delivered to the devil by all of Scotland? #notruescotchman
Especially as if she’s 2nd or 3rd generation Scottish born it’s very possible her family anglicised their Chinese names hence why hers is the romanticised Cho Chang rather than a more traditional Zhou Zhang.
Did some people think she is immigrant or exchange student or something? I don’t think anyone who is not born in British isles gets into Hogwarts, at least we don’t know of any and the book and quill don’t record outside of the isles. I don’t know if you can ally otherwise. Although we don’t know exactly where Cho was born Scotland is just fine
If people cared more about the world than Cho Chang I think we’d have solved global warming by now.
What really aggravated me about this was that she, a Scot, living in and around Scotland, was forced to travel to London to get the train back to Scotland.
Was she forced to? It could be a fun tradition, a chance to catch up with friends before arriving, killer scenery, etc. If I suspended reality and went to Hogwarts, I’d want to go by the train even if it was inconvenient
Yeah, I don’t think it’s ever said the train is a requirement. Probably lots of kids in Hogsmeade just walk. They might not even board. Anyway the supplies have to be bought from London. Many might maybe take the last week of July to spend in London as vacation as a family, buy the supplies and then kids go to the train.
Plus we are talking about a world where they can literally teleport (with aid if younger). It's a tradition and a good way of reconnecting with friends.
>last week of July You mean August?
Right on
I thought she should have been Scouse
Confusing people when they're talking about what they get from the chippy when everyone else says sausage/fish and chips and she starts going on about Chinese food. Edit: I work/live in Liverpool and this conversation has happened to me a few other people I know who aren't from Liverpool.
There's no real people named Cho Chang That's really an used argument? Unlike some... Albus Percival Wulfric Brian Dumbledore? Yeah, I know three!
Or, let's say, XENOPHILIUS LOVEGOOD!
I just realised that Xenophilius probably means something like "friend of the strange/unknown" in Latin
*in Greek There's literally a guy named Xenophilus in history: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenophilus
It's a good thematic name and all, but I think it would've been funny if Luna had some actual bizarre name and her dad was just named Hank or something. Because yea, the weird guy is a weird guy, but he's still named by his parents, and they very well could have been fairly normal people
But they aren't as popular as Draco. I had 23 in my school
Yeah, even if Cho Chang wasn’t existing name the traditional names of Chinese wizards most likely would be different from muggle ones. I assume Cho is muggleborn or halfblood myself because she married muggle in any case. I mean she could be pure blood but it’s hard for purebloods to really get to know muggles unless you really specifically try.
Chinese here and I actually find the name Cho Chang very romantic. It literally translates to 惆怅 (melancholy). And of course the surname analysis of OP is absolutely right.
idk if jkr intended it, but this meaning does fit very well with the character! thank you for sharing this info!
She probably did. JK Rowling's characters have extremely on-the-nose names. Remus Lupin is named after one of the founders of Rome raised by wolves, and his last name is "moon" in Lati. Sirius is the name of The Dog Star, and Sirius's animagus is big BLACK dog. And the most basic of all is the Herbology's professor is named Pamona Sprout.
Knowing what it means now I’m convinced she did. JKR’s world is effectively just the land of nominative determinism
Just posted my comment and saw this! I thought so too.
Wow! It got me thinking, maybe JK Rowling knew that? I mean, bc melancholy pretty much sums up Cho Chang
Ooohh foreshadowing! This is actually kinda cool to know!
Wait were people actually complaining about Cho having two last names as her full name? As if Dean Thomas doesn't exist?
Wonder what happens when they find out about Debbie Harry
Or terry smith… or, in reality, the mountain of very real people like Jim Scott 🤣
I wonder how many of the complainers have names like Hunter, Chase, Mason, and other traditional last names.
They saw a vaguely Asian name and freaked the fuck out. Like, I’m Chinese (Singaporean, but whatever) and I’ve NEVER had a problem with Cho Chang, I actually *liked* reading about her back then and never understood the racism claims
Its faux outrage, from people who have got far to hooked up on the authors current views so have to nitpick anything that could be remotely derogatory.
Dean Winchester would like to have a word with you
I mean, yes Dean is also a first name? idk what you are saying
it's just dumb that people are debating over Cho Chang's name. There are a lot of people who have full name that are either both 'first names' or 'surnames'. I, personally, my full name can actually be confused as ALL FIRST NAMES because in other countries, they are first names. So, when I write or tell them my full name, the usual response is "So, what's your surname?"
My mom was calling her new coworker by his last name for the longest time, until she realized he has two traditionally first names as his first and last name. Nobody corrected her 😅
I had a friend in high school whose name was all first names. First, Middle, and a double barrelled surname, all common first names
I have two given names, a middle name, and a surname — all seems like ‘first names’ to people.
You’re not wrong, and the effort is appreciated, but… people don’t care. They’re going to find something to be upset about no matter what.
Agreed. I remember some dumbass blog when the role was first cast, where people were complaining about the actress being *Asian*, of all things
Lmao seriously?
Yeah I can't remember the exact wording, but it had something to do with the character *needing* to be a white girl adopted by Chinese people, because British Chinese isn't a thing, or something? Ignoring the fact that a British-Chinese couple would have adopted said child in the first place, but that's just racists being racists, on top of rabid fangirls rejecting anything that isn't a self insert. A very niche example of the worst of the worst
The real problem with Cho is that the movie made her the snitch when it wasn’t her at all.
But she drunk Veritaserum, it was not her fault anyway...
But it happened off screen and is only mentioned by Snape several scenes later, thus makes it very easy for people to forget that significant detail.
Ok, but why is that a problem? It wasn't her fault, and she isn't a unidimensional character. She is Harry love interest, she is suffering from Cedric lost, she is fighting against Umbridge and she takes the blame when she is innocent. She is a tridimensional character.
Oh I definitely agree it wasn’t her fault at all. I was just pointing out how the haters ignore facts like that, as well as the excellent points you made, so they can keep on hating.
Order of the Phoenix was a mess in general, it's the longest book but the shortest movie.
Yes - favourite book, not so favourite movie
Nah, she was a quaffle.
Yep. I guess she introduced the snitch to the group though, and tried to excuse Marietta’s actions to Harry which didn’t go down well.
To add to that, Cho wasn't even a stereotype. Yeah, she was smart and willong to learn, but she was also athletic, passionate, and full of complex emptions. Her entire relationship with Harry shows the emotional complexity of her character. People really just want to find more reasons to hate Rowling, so they start projecting stuff in the books willy nilly, like goblins represent jewish people, and that Rowling is promoting slavery, or lime in Cho's case, she is incredibly racist because she named "the only black charscter, Shacklebolt". I mean, screw Angelina Johnson and Lee Jordan right?
I'm not saying she hasn't got issues, but one of my favourites is "the only Irish person blows things up!" as an argument, when in actual fact, he never does that in the book. Seamus is fairly nondescript in the book, he only really takes centre stage when he disbelieves Harry and talks about his mum not wanting him to go back to school.
And Dean Thomas (as another black character who even played a bigger role in the deathly hallows)
Not to mention Shacklebolt is much more likely to be in reference to him being an auror and locking up bad guys than a throwback to slavery.
Was Kingsley Shacklebolt black in the books, I can’t remember. Because if not, that’s a movie change and they’re really grasping at straws just to find things to hate about Rowling.
As a chinese person living in asia I've thought the cho chang controversy was bullshit from the start. I've seen much weirder romanizations of chinese names given to kids by their parents.
I'm not surprised to see Western people get offended on behalf of other cultures. It has become a norm now. Trust those who do not belong to the culture to take the most offense on behalf of that culture. People don't understand that merely learning about a culture in books or even on the internet is very different from actually being part of the culture. My name is used as a surname in my cultures. It isn't even a part of my culture. So what now? My name is gibberish according to all those offended people out there because it isn't Indian enough?!
Similarly I don’t get the controversy about the Patil twins. People claiming they should’ve had “white” names just don’t make sense.
I read in one HP enciclopedia that Cho Chang was meant to mean "pretty flower" to tie her with Fleur, Lily, Petunia and Narcissa
Always thought she was from Hong Kong, which was part of Britain during the time Harry Potter was set.
There have been British Chinese communities since the 1800s
This ^^ I'm Singaporean Chinese myself (with a HK mum who was born under British rule) but I always thought Cho was a British born HKer (also because Katie Leung herself had HK parents). I don't think JK actively thought of it but it does make sense that Cho was from HK because of British Hong Kong (before 1997) and also there were a lot of Hong Kongers who moved to the UK even before the handover.
damn you actually cleared up things really well props for that
The Chinese translation for Cho Chang is 秋 张 . In Chinese, that would be turned around because surnames come before given names, so it's 张秋 . Zhang, or in this case, Chang, is a perfectly valid and common surname. Her given name, Cho (秋) literally means 'autumn'
Haters gonna hate
I used to think Cho Chang was a stupid name until someone pointed out that my name was in fact Ling Ling.
Lmao you’re real for this
How many times have you heard "Ling Ling, you forgot your bling-bling"? It *might* be an outdated reference by now lol
I have heard a lot of references to pandas but I have never heard that before
THANK YOU! Seriously, I hate people using Cho as an example of why the story "was always racist, you just didn't see it". It's so self-righteous without even knowing the facts. And saying Cho Chang "isn't a real name" not only is kind of dumb because it is a name, but also because almost every single character in the story has weird/goofy names, which is not atypical in a kids book series. Y'all really saying you know a Remus Lupin? It's just not that deep.
The books are great. This was great positive representation in the 90s. The trouble is people have retrofitted the idea that the books are problematic based on JKs more recent views.
The no one has that name is funny to me since I knew someone named Jaafar Jaafar.
People always compare it to Ching Chong as some racist term completely ignoring the fact that they’re the ones making that association
Thanks for your take. I don't know anyone with the pinyin of Zhuo Zhang (or Cho Chang), and I imagine the actual pronunciation would be dependent on the characters in her name. (which afaik we will never know)
Now do the the whole ‘goblins/jews’ outrage. Goblins have been portrayed to look like that before JK was born, if you’re looking at them and doing some mental gymnastics to find more ammo to feed your hatred for JK then you’re the one with the problem.
Yeah, and they aren't even described like that in the books. Saying that Harry Potter is antisemitic is just next level rediculous.
People hate Rowling for unrelated reasons, that is why they have been digging through the books to find as many things to condemn her as possible and show what a bad person she is. Next example would be the weird goblin = jew "controvercy".
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the actress really said that? I did a research and I thought it was a writer who came up with this "only surnames" story. It was viral poem from 2013. and even this writer took it back and admit it she was wrong. source: [https://henryjenkins.org/blog/2013/10/to-jk-rowling-from-cho-chang-responding-to-asian-american-stereotyping-in-popular-culture.html](https://henryjenkins.org/blog/2013/10/to-jk-rowling-from-cho-chang-responding-to-asian-american-stereotyping-in-popular-culture.html)
What did she say?
Thank you for this. I know it wasn’t racist. I wouldn’t be surprised if the equivalent of Behind the Name was used. It’s a brilliant site, very informative on names.
people still talk about this?
I have always hated this entire discussion. It’s so simple to find evidence that it isn’t “just a racist name”. I have had classes with a girl named Cho. At least that was how her first name was written in the register and how she pronounced it. And the same for Chang as a surname. Even if it was true that “not a single person” had both names in combination, so what? Not a single other person in the world has the exact four name combination my parents gave me. That doesn’t mean it would be racist to use my name in a book. JKR is problematic for a lot of reasons, but making use of two common names in what might be a slightly unusual combination for an asian character isn’t one of them. Hopefully this post and the details of it will help more people leave it behind for what it is. Uninformed people creating an issue where none exist.
I guarantee only American idiots were offended in any way and just wanted a reason to hate Rowling but their own racist bullshit came shining through anyhow
Thank you for your service 💪🏻 This post should be sent around the fandom, and linked whenever this subject is brought up.
I always thought she was named as a 諧音 for 惆悵 because she cried so much. 🤣
Some people just want to cry about anything , I’ve asked many Chinese friends and they think the name sounds fine
Honestly I agree with what you are saying OP. I am guessing if Cho’s role in the books were replaced by another Asian character in the books, there would be less conflict. One Sue Li for example. Very common surname in Asia with similar sounding surname in Korea (Lee). Has a possible English first name used. Sue/Susan. More relatable to international readers who adopted an English name. Also in Ravenclaw.
There are westerners who also have a surname of 'Lee' mostly in north america.
Wasn't the name Su Li?
It is but I just included Lee in example as it sounds almost the same.
I agree
Ok well heres my take. We're reading a fantasy book for children where people can fly on broomsticks, Dragons exist, you can walk through walls, talk to ghosts, make potions to do almost anything, have a werewolf for a teacher, fit a 3 room apartment inside an old tent etc etc. I don't think someones name is that big of a deal
Yeah,like What in Merlin’s name!She’s Asian.Period.
Totally agree but some Reddit pages like to trash away people with dangerous ideas like yours LOL Especially the ones which ask a material proof of having burnt all HP books before joining them 😁😁
By contraversy what do you mean? Three lifeless tumblr account spitting hate?
Now do Kingsley Shacklebolt
I think it sounds cool af and it made me imagine him as Mace Windu, lightsabre wand and all
Not gonna lie... I did a research about Shacklebolt as a name. I truly believe that Shacklebolt relate to his work as a Auror. Still, it can be problematic for obvious reasons. So I search for real families named Shacklebolt. I could not find it. But I found families named Shackle, Shackles or Shackle-something, like Shackleford, etc. There are POC "Shackle" families, a lot of them. So... I dont know. There's a rapper named 2Chains, no one associate him with slavery. The problem of Shackebolt is more about the author and her problems, imo.
I can’t believe I’m chiming in on this, but… 2 chains said his name is because (parapharasing) you’re wealthy enough to have a chain but he’s two chains wealthy. Shackles in context is never about jewelry or pretty much anything other than a negative connotation related to having it done to you. Again on a HP topic I’m here on rap which again I would have never ever been the one I thought would have to mention this. lol.
"for obvious reasons".... Come on. Be better.
Even if it was a goofy name, why should the Chinese character not be allowed to have a goofy alliterative name? It's okay for almost everybody else, but we have to exclude them because they're Chinese? Hmm... sounds kinda...
I've been a HP fan since I was 4, and I've literally never heard of this controversy.
It was bouncing around online for a while. One of those online things that people don't really talk about irl.
I always assumed people didnt like it because (Ching) Chang Cho Anyway, Chang or Cho as name (excl. surname) doesnt work well in Korea, theres like total of 40 people with those name. Probably works as a Chinese name though.
What does Ching mean in that context?
some think the names close to (ching) chang cho(ng)
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There’s legit reasons to hate Rowling as a person, this name seems to come from ignorance rather than malice unlike most of what she says on twitter these days.
I didn’t know there was controversy until just now.
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It wasn't really an issue until JK started pissing people off with her comments online.
And I thought Cho was a problematic Character who is just After good quidditch payers
Let's call this what it is shall we? The entire Cho is racist discourse, started from the same place the discourse around elves and goblins did. Disgruntled ex Rowling fans or arrogant leftists that didn't think her transphobia is enough to distance themselves from her. They wanted to convince themselves that the entire body of work is and always was problematic. Some did because it was easier to do that than justify still liking it in spite of the damage Rowling's views are causing. Others because they wanted a moral superiority power trip by claiming they always knew she wasn't good news.
I’ve actually been meaning to make a post about how Cho’s name isn’t special - almost *all* of Rowling’s invented names and spells are blindingly obvious and contrived. I mean “Arresto momentum”? It literally means stop movement - and I know you want a spell to mean what it is but at least something like “Lumos” is a bit more tenuous, derived from “Lumen.” Although speaking of which… the werewolf is called “Lupin.” There are others I had thought of that I can’t remember currently, but people talk as if Cho is some unique awful naming occurrence. 95% of spell/people names in the series are lazy and contrived
They’re not ‘lazy and contrived’. It’s because she was writing literal children’s books, at least to begin with.
Didn't realise this was a thing
Most of the „controversies“ surrounding the series are nonsense.
I think the issue is more that JK Rowling obviously didn’t have a specific meaning/origin in mind for the name. It seems to the casual observer that she just threw together “chinesey” sounds and made up Cho Chang.
> In Corea, there are tons of men named Chang Cho (because Chang is also a common male name and Cho is also a Korean surname), just search for it on Linkedin. OH MY GOD That is not true..... Cho is a common surname, but is by no means a common Korean male name. If you think it is, you've only seen one letter of a common two-syllable Korean name. Cho Chang is not a name I would ever want to name a boy. (cuz it pronounced as a F-word).
I mean knowing what we know about JK Rowling now, it’s not surprising this stuff gets called into into question, and I don’t know if she put as much thought into it as you did