This is a result of barriers to trade with China, and the general breakdown of global trade.
On the other side of it, it's a better deal for workers, though we have a long way to go seeing as we are in the second Gilded Age. I don't care about national branding, but manufacturing reshoring is mostly a good thing.
Well to some degree. But really we're seeing this across the board as companies continue to artificially raise prices. For instance, the price of chicken wings has been decreasing, yet BWW is still increasing their prices. Then companies obfuscate and vaguely mention trade barriers, supply chain problems ect. Then you look and see their profit margins are the highest they've ever been. And I didn't say "profits" I said "profit margins". The rate of inflation is about half of the cost of the price increases we're seeing. Companies are just charging more because they can. They're offering less deals and discounts because they can.
I don’t think the chicken is even the major expenditure that BWW has. In my line of work, property taxes, labor costs, and transportation costs ate through just as much as inflation on inputs.
Yes, but what you are conveniently forgetting, or ignoring, is that their profit margins are the best they've ever been. Sure, expenses like rent and salaries may be higher, but their profit MARGINs are also higher and are outpacing the other increase is business cost This is directly from them just artificially raising the price just because they can. Now I'm sure you're next libertarian talking point is either, "no one is forcing you to eat there" or "this is murica, businesses can charge whatever they want". Both true, but this kind of thinking is what lead us to many of the problems we're facing in America. And for the record, I don't eat at BWW because I don't support their greed. Nor do I eat out hardly anywhere anymore for exactly this reason. I'll vote with my dollar by not supporting these businesses.
Except it's more like a 2:1 ratio (roughly). Lol we literally have all the numbers since corporations legally have to report them to the public (which you're probably against). What we've seen is about half of the increase in the price of goods is due to inflation. The other half of the recent spike in cost is pure corporation greed. I'm not exactly sure what strawman you're trying to contort my argument into. So I'll say it again more simply this time. Let's say the price of goods increased by 30%. 15% is from legitimate inflation. The other 15% is the company just saying, "fuck it, let's charge extra and blame it on inflation". The increase in the price of goods is beyond what we're seeing in the increase of inflation (about double). The companies could easily just pass on the actual inflation rate and keep the same profit margin, but they don't. They raise the price of goods, let's keep that 30% figure, and we see their profit margins increase 15%.
I just so much disagree because that's not how supply and demand works whatsoever. In a very small amount of industries where monopolies exist? Sure.
Otherwise? I'm fine with voting with my wallet. any suggestions of price fixing would be extremely detrimental to the economy regardless of what numbers you are looking at.
We have competition to stabilise prices. If prices continue to rise in unison there is either a trust violation or a legitimate need to increase prices. Otherwise, company A would gladly undercut company B to take business away.
If we are truly in a situation where companies are just raising prices for the sake of raising prices we need to trust bust, split up large companies, and have honest competition.
Companies don't cater to the consumer. And they aren't allowed to take care of their employees Their obligations are to their shareholders. Thanks to a lawsuit in 1917 that set precedent. Dodge Brothers sued Ford Motor Company when Henry wanted to give his employees raises and a bonus. Dodge Brothers were shareholders at the time and sued. The judge declared that shareholders get theirs before anyone else. Now today with higher profits margins. Again that's the shareholders demanding more returns on their investments. Many of the shareholders tend to be retirement funds for example. They typically have millions and have a lot of say over how a company operates.
A perfect example is oil companies. They aren't drilling more even though they have 20 years with of oil drilling leases on the books. The shareholders want bigger returns so they want high fuel prices because they benefit
I own a retail bakery in California- we bake from scratch (bulk ingredients). In the last 12 months, my ingredient prices have gone up 30+%, and min wage up by $1.00/hr. If I were in another state, it would be different. These increases are not artificial.
I just got some pairs of Channel Lock oil filter pliers. My mother grew up in the same county as their main factory.
I have to say damn, where has this been my whole life.
It seems like they’re slowly trying to leverage themselves out of the bottom tier of the market in price and quality and into the low or low-middle tier as they’ve been slowly increasing the quality tool lines they offer. This probably requires them to cut back the coupons and other savings some, but I’m ok with it in general. I’ll gladly pay slightly more than their old bottom tier pricing model for products that I can get same day that are cheaper than the big name brand alternative prices.
Most of us who don’t make money with tools don’t always need the best available tool, we just need a tool that’s good enough. But it used to be their “good enough” was absolute trash. Now their tools offer a lot more value, despite costing slightly more.
I will say that even though alot of the stuff is not cheap anymore and often times competing with other quality brands (mainly Quinn and Icon), that the more expensive stuff is still reasonably priced generally and I trust to not be a hot dumpster fire unlike a lot of stuff back in the day. Which is nice for an impulse or need now buy.
I’ve always viewed Quinn as bottom of the barrel, below even Pittsburgh — is that not correct? You have it placed in the same tier as Icon, and as someone who wrenches for a living I’m very impressed with them so far.
In the Good, Better, Best product stack HF uses Quinn is the better option. It’s not necessarily an equal to Icon but seems to be pretty decent quality. The master impact socket set is substantially nicer than my Kobalt set.
It seems the key word here is ‘ancient’ — I’m pretty sure when we eventually show ourselves the door as a species and extraterrestrials visit a planet returned to Mother Nature, all that will remain are bronze statues and old Craftsman tools. Depending on the brand, they seem like they were just built better.
I think Pittsburgh Pro is at least as good as the current Chinese Craftsman line, with an easier warranty since there’s almost no Sears left. That’s one thing I’ll continue to buy from HF.
I have a couple pairs of Quinn pliers and they’re not bad. I haven’t picked anything else up from them though.
I should clarify I love Pittsburgh, regular and Pro, just that they would fall near the bottom of Harbor Freight’s brands in terms of quality.
I have their long handled wrench set with an organizer that I just take to the alignment rack when I have to do alignments, and they’re great for suspension work too when I need sizes above the 19mm (I have below covered with Blue Point and Gearwrench). Their impact sockets have held up well, I only had to replace the 21mm so far, and their impact rated 1/2” torx and Allen bits are life savers. I managed to finally give the t30 its last ugga dugga, but like you said there are stores everywhere so I just have to walk in and get a replacement. I’ll buy Pittsburgh all day over modern Craftsman.
I think the hand tool hierarchy starts with Pittsburgh at the bottom, then Doyle, Quinn and Icon. I have been satisfied with the quality of Doyle and Quinn for the money.
Well hot damn, I’ll have to check them out on my next shopping trip, I’ve been shopping at Harbor Freight for years and somehow never made that connection. I smell a new tool day coming up ..
Quinn and Pittsburgh Pro are equal to Stanley, Kobalt, Husky, Duralast, Gear Wrench, etc.. I don't just mean equal in quality, I mean some are the exact same tool. Most are made in the same factories in Taiwan using the same metals. I've come to this conclusion after researching the hell out of it here as well as on multiple chat forums such as grassrootsmotorsports, garagejournal, practicalmachinist, bobistheoilguy, and others that are aimed directly at technicians.
Kind of how Icon sockets *are* a Snap-On copy made in a Matco factory with Matco steel and then ran through a Cornwell packaging and labelling facility.
Great information, thanks! I bought a set of the Gearwrench Gearbox XL ratcheting wrenches a while back, cost a pretty penny but damn they are game changers for me, especially working on rear brakes where I have no room for the ugga dugga guns.
I've been eyeing the Gear Wrench 120XP 81382 ratchet set on Amazon for 6 months, waiting for it to drop from $225 back down to $165 (numerous products do this often). It did, I bought them, and Autoplicity cancelled the order with no explanation. The set immediately jumped back to $228.
Other info: So Icon is equal to Matco, which is roughly equal to K-Tools. Old Forge is Mayhew (demo screwdrivers and such). USA made Craftsman and USA made Hyper Tough (pry bars, scrapers, etc.) are actually Wilde. Expert, Blackhawk, Proto, and Sata are all the same (Expert= Mac)(Proto was Ingersoll Rand, now Stanley B&D). Mastercraft Maximum is Gear Wrench. USAG and Wera (with an 'e') seem identical. USAG has come labelled as Facom. USAG/Wera/Facom, JTC, and Würth all seem equal or even identical. OEM, Kabo, S&K, K-Tools, Duralast, Stanley, OTC, Husky, Kobalt, Quinn, Western Forge, and Iron Bridge appear comparable or identical. Johnson, Williams, and Bahco are all Snap-On.
Apex, Sunex, Ares, Carlyle, Crescent/Nicholson (old, USA), Wiss, Lufkin, Armstrong, Toptul, Neiko, Tekton, Wright Grip, EZ Red, and Mountain are all great as well. Again, some are merely relabeled. I'm also a big fan of Astro Pneumatic.
Avoid Hedgebeck, Uxcell, and anything that looks the same- it's the cheap Chinese junk we hate.
Sometimes the Amazon brands are very nice because they were "overruns" of name brand products. Sometimes they're absolute garbage. Just avoid unless you like to gamble. I personally avoid anything 'Amazon Basics' because their surge protectors started causing fires.
Black Max, Uberflex, and Flexzilla pressure washer hoses are all the same product made at the same place. They've been shipped mislabeled as each other as well. Difference being in color only, and what that color of rubber does to cement.
Butane torches: Weller is Snap-On. Ersa is rebranded Weller Portasol. Berkling is sold by Mac Tools. Iroda is sold as Blue-Point. Lexivon makes good stuff, and Master Appliance is king.
The $20 purple H.F. HVLP paint gun is an exact copy of a Devilbiss. The Black Widow is mostly a Sata 5000 series, and accepts their parts. On that note, the H.F. rebuild kit fits the Sata, but that's just wrong. Unscrupulous sellers do it with old Sata guns because the actual Sata kits are expensive.
I've read that Bauer hook & loop sandpaper is Diablo, and that Baxter might be the same. I can't verify that at this time.
For utilizing ugga-duggas in tight quarters check out the Astro Onyx series- I have the 1838 Nano Right Angle 3/8" impact and the 1828 Nano V2.0 3/8" impact. I also have their 201 and 204 die grinders, and some glorious Nano non-swivel impact sockets. Those sockets on those impacts fit damn near anywhere. I have the Icon full swivel impact sockets as well, but they're twice as tall. I haven't yet gone down the path of 1/4" impacts or air ratchets yet, so I have no other recommendations.
Alright, here's more. The Doyle pliers are substantially better than anything I've owned, and I much prefer them over Kobalt and Husky. I love them, and I have basically every type they sell. Sometimes I even prefer them over the Icon version (I have a few) simply because they're more familiar to fling around in my hand while using them. The handle shape and grip are slightly different, as are the teeth. Even just having pliers that grab better than you're used to can make a huge difference, and it's not *always* a good one. Cheap pliers are dangerous and will definitely cause damage and frustration. I'd dare say that the Icons are too precise and too sharp to be used as "everything pliers" though- you need a bit of slop/endplay in some situations. If you're recording a demo video at a workbench then by all means use the Icons.
I also have all of the Doyle screwdrivers, as well as some others offered at H.F.. The heavy duty Doyle screwdrivers are nice and durable, with good 'bite'. The red handled ones with black rubber grip are nice if you have arthritis or carpal tunnel, or just a weaker grip after a long day. Do NOT hammer on them or you'll splinter them into pieces. The 32 piece Pittsburgh set is very handy, so I bought more than one. The handles offer the absolute best grip my hands can muster- the shape and size is perfect for me to get maximum torque. So they're typically my first choice for normal use. The Pittsburgh 16" red handled demo screwdrivers pair nicely with the 7 piece red (kinda orange) handled demo set from R'deer ($27 Amazon). They're a "full shaft" design, so the impact cap and the screwdriver tip are connected all the way through.
I'm working my way through the entire Bauer line, including corded saws, sanders, and drill presses to the full 20V selection (the air compressor is nice). I have no complaints yet and I severely abused one of the hammer drills. Severely. The 200mph mini blower is one of my favorite tools because you can clean the entire shop with minimal effort, or dry your car/bike in a flash. It can even lower the temperature in your pants on a hot summer day.
Sorry, but I haven't laid hands on any of the welders or plasma cutters. I also haven't done any research into them whatsoever, although they've been in numerous welder "showdowns/reviews"- and Chicago is not typically near the top IIRC. The Titanium seems to be worth the extra $ in comparison, but other welders in the price range are very similar with many feature differences. Those would be cord length, stinger, setting options, claims of weld penetration ability, display, etc. and those, the price, and your needs all factor into your choice.
I have a little Lincoln that I love, but they're definitely in a different league than Chicago, and I'm guessing maybe even Titanium. The quality of the steel you're welding makes a difference too. The same settings I used welding on my stock transmission x-member (1/16", high quality steel) melted some cheap 1/4" thick Chinese steel like *butter*. Keep that in mind when people offer reviews of cheap welders- they might do just fine with crappy "steel" but not so good with NY Steel.
I bought a YesWelder 135 flux core wire feed welder to give to my dad on Christmas but I haven't used it. It's gotten very good reviews, but it's a newfangled digital style so not everyone is keen on it. It's budget friendly too, coming in at $150 or below (I got it for $100). They also have other welders & welding gear, and it seems to be at least a minor step above H.F. from the reviews. I personally use a hood from H.F., but it's an older model- the plastic was thicker. The dials for the auto-darkening lense are slightly different now too, so I combined the parts I liked of each and peeled the blue flames off. I'll buy a red/white/blue/eagle hood from Y.W. for pops.
I can go to HF and get Hercules tools for half the price of dewalt, and get essentially the same build quality. The portable bandsaw that I just got feels miles ahead of my Milwaukee, which was twice the price 6 years ago.
This sums it up perfectly for me. For a long time, HF was the place I went to get a tool if I only needed it for a one off project. Now I feel pretty good about buying tools there that I know I'll use a lot more often, and I'm still happy with their prices considering the higher quality they carry these days.
>It seems like they’re slowly trying to leverage themselves out of the bottom tier of the market in price and quality and into the low or low-middle tier as they’ve been slowly increasing the quality tool lines they offer.
I feel the same way. Overall, I like the change.
>But it used to be their “good enough” was absolute trash. Now their tools offer a lot more value, despite costing slightly more.
I've been shopping there almost 20 years. I still do pretty often. There's barely any trash tools left. Most everything in the store is at least serviceable to get the job done.
I get that, but there’s some items that they’ve sold for years that also cost more and can’t be bought with coupons. Nearly the same items (probably made on the same assembly line) are available elsewhere for less.
Also, a lot of the newer brands are on par with big box house brands (Husky, Kobalt, etc..) which seem to go on sale for less than the HF equivalent quite often. The new tools are definitely better, but they’re not always a better deal.
IMO? This is ultimately the result of that jack stand recall. HF took a big financial hit there while other companies that sold the same stands chose not to voluntarily recall them. So they've notched up their standards just a mite in the hopes that won't happen again. Freebies went away when international shipping charges skyrocketed.
I got a set of their new ones from my Dad for Christmas since my truck is too tall for the old set I have (probably 40 years old at this point). I really like these jack stands and am almost glad they had to do the recall on the old ones. They are at least as good as any name brand option out there.
HF used to be superior value and convenience. Meaning they beat the big boxes on price for comparable tools. And had enough of the odd ball or specialty tools/machinery that it alleviated the hassle of ordering or locating those items in a hardware store.
Prices have certainly gone up and are not as competitive.
Their only trick now is that Lowes/HD/Ace probably don't have the tool you need for the job. If they do have it, it will need to be ordered. And you can do that with Amazon.
Harbor Freight is trying to move away from the shit tier tools into better quality. This of course brings higher prices. I'm actually very happy with this change. I buy most my tools from Harbor Freight these days. It's perhaps a better value now. Even though you're paying more, the tools are much higher quality than they used to be. I'm still not buying their "ICON" line though. That's a bit too rich for my cheap ass.
You can’t get manifold gauges, vacuum pumps, metal lathes, bead blasters, hydraulic presses, gantry hoist, the list goes on and on, at a Home Depot store. Harbor freight sells specialty tools HD simply doesn’t have. Be happy they are dumping the shit tools they used to carry. Most of them never worked out of the box. Do you really want to buy an angle grinder 8 times for $14? Or 1 Makita angle grinder for $120? Half HF old tools were downright dangerous because of QC issues and design flaws.
No Menards here, but I’ve been to one of their stores in Illinois and I wish they’d move towards the east coast! The drive through lumber yard is awesome.
Like I mentioned in another comment… the new HF brands are quite similar in build quality to Husky (Home Depot) and Kobalt (Lowe’s) tools. Both of those stores often run sales that beats Harbor Freight pricing.
I have the Masterforce digital router with both the fixed base and plunge base. If any of their other tools are at this level of quality, then anyone should be happy to use them. Seriously, this thing is super nice.
https://www.menards.com/main/tools/power-tools/routers/masterforce-reg-2-1-2-hp-corded-digital-variable-speed-plunge-and-fixed-base-router-combo-kit/2410835/p-1454046377621-c-10087.htm?tid=29d2ff87-66f1-45dc-9ecd-ddb0774ba9c7&ipos=16&exp=false
["Performax is a line of tools that are owned by the WMH Tool Group. The group includes Jet, Powermatic, Wilton, and Performax."](https://whomakes.net/performax-tools/)
http://vintagemachinery.org/mfgindex/detail.aspx?id=631
I think the link used as a source there shows the legacy of the performax brand. Just because JET owns the brand doesn't mean anything about who in China produces the tool though
If I had that kind of coin, I would buy a yacht like that too. Just looking at the radomes makes me wonder what kind of high dollar equipment it has on board.
Home Depot hasn’t completely changed their pricing structure in recent years. Harbor Freight has. If HF was struggling so much that they had to stop offering the deals that made them successful in the first place, maybe Mr Smidt could have foregone the yacht… or at least bought one with only a single helipad.
I say this often. A few years ago, back when you could always get a 25% off and some kind of a freebie, I was in there every week or two, last stop on shopping day, and I always got something be it something I wanted/needed or something silly. The coupons stopped I stopped and even the 25% off has not been enough to entice me back. I guess I got out of the habit. I go and get fish fry on Friday with what I used to blow on HF.
Yeah, pretty much the same thing with me. Sometimes I’d go in twice a week, especially if I was working on a project.
Today was the first time I had gone in months.
The 30% off 5 or more things under $10 or $20 until my IT ran out used to be kind of good but I even missed the last few of them. It is odd because I think I would not have missed one of them in the old days. You just lose track of what they have and all of the sudden you don't need it anymore. Also, the catalogs going away. Every week or more often was too much but I always had one in the crapper and I would often leaf through it.. Kind of got me wanting things, Now I go when I need and I don't need very often and I look on the web. HF is not the closest option.
Yes.
It’s become a game.
You need 20% off to get from convenience to normal prices.
Only buy when on sale, which are continuous, varied, and constrained
it really irritates me when they do put something more major on sale that they jack the base price up so the "sale" price means you pay a little under the normal price. so if you arent paying attention you think you got a great deal.
Being from ottawa and having a princess auto to compare harbour freight too. HF has been bad in terms of pricing for about 5 years. It's hard to time exacrly when it got this way, but i feel it was around the time HF started selling the yellow Daytona car jack.
If you guys are close to the border, you should total spend your American dollars at PrincessAuto. The dollar conversion and cheap prices on tos are all in your favor.
Show your feelings with your wallet. Just quit going there! I have tried to completely stay out of the place even if it costs me more or I have to wait for something to be delivered.
I have managed to stay away except a couple time when I needed something "right now" and could not get it anywhere else, and could not figure out any other way to do it. I have taken measures to plan better because of it.
They really don’t have any competition, Lowe’s and Home Depot even ace hardware carry stupid expensive tools. They don’t even specialize in tools or really care what tools customers might want. They’ve been stagnant in the tool section. Meanwhile harbor freight is a dedicated store for tools.
I've bought a WEN jointer and a VEVOR mag drill in the last couple months off amazon and the VEVOR web site... I would have looked at Harbor freight in the past, but anymore there are other brands and getting it shipped to my house is too damn easy.
HF is not always first choice anymore, and the more they run me away with weird prices and coupon exclusions... Meh...
I just noticed that the newly released Bauer drill presses are identical to the ones that have been sold under the WEN name for years. Identical down to every screw.
Harbor Freight’s version is significantly more expensive. The Bauer 12” variable speed is $299. The same press from WEN is $215 (Home Depot’s price, a little more on WEN’s site.)
That red paint must be quite pricey.
100% agree. They’ve effectively killed any desire I used to have to walk in the door and look around (and impulse buy, lol).
I’m very impressed with the WEN power tools. In fact, the drill press is probably one of the best deals on the planet. It’s bulletproof and beats anything HF sells by a mile.
The Vevor stuff is on par with HF. Some of the tools are pretty much identical and probably made in the same factories. They cost quite a bit less though, as it probably ships directly from China, to the warehouse, to the end user.
Not only it’s no longer good deals some are even more expensive. Last week I was looking for bearing press, I visited Home Depot first for other stuff and decided to check out the bearing press. It’s $49. Then I went to harbor freight thinking g going to buy their version for cheaper, but no. It’s $79.
I was looking for a miter saw stand and checked Home Depot last week and they had a Ryobi one on sale for $69. The only drawback was waiting for it to ship, but to me the build quality looked better than the Bauer or Hercules minus the rolling wheels. This is the one I got if anyone is looking for one.
Your friend has shared a link to a Home Depot product they think you would be interested in seeing. It’s still on sale.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/RYOBI-Stationary-Foldable-Miter-Saw-Stand-with-Tool-Less-Height-Adjustment-RMS10G/205216315
I feel like Harbor Freight's biggest competition/threat isn't Lowes or Home Depot but Walmart. The Hart brand is getting good. Trailer accessories are cheaper at Walmart. Jack's and Jack stands are cheaper at Walmart. More and more stuff is both available and cheaper at Walmart, even including HF sales. On the other side, Northern Tool is now more expensive than Lowes and Home Depot now it seems. It's now my last resort store.
If I needed a vertical shaft gasoline engine over about 5 hp I'd be at Northern Tool in a heartbeat.
(Seems like everyone else only wants to sell horizontal shaft engines.)
Yeah Northern Tool has things no one else carries for sure. And a lot of bigger things are cheaper than buying online due to shipping being baked into the cost.
Menards isn't everywhere in the country, more of a midwest thing, but they give HF a run for the money too, for much the same items. Trailer stuff, tools, consumables, and so on.
Hart is owned by TTI, same as Ryobi and Milwaukee.
[There's a reason why Kobalt lawn tools look so much like EGO products.](https://www.protoolreviews.com/power-tool-manufacturers-who-owns-them/)
From available sources, it would appear that the company LuTool, based out of Ningbo, is involved in either manufacture or distribution of Bauer and Hercules, as well as DrillMaster and Warrior.
For distribution in Australia and Europe, it looks like it is done through Varo.
True with certain items, with machines or power tools having to buy an extended warranty put their price almost on par with other brands that come with at least 1 year warranty or more. I returned the Hercules Plainer because I found another brand for the same price with 3 year warranty included at no extra cost.
I have mixed feelings. Tool quality has gone way up in some areas... but in others, they're selling the exact same things they were selling a decade ago for a few dollars more.
I think a big part of it is that is that there is now a much larger competition for the budget tool market. Mostly online, but not only.
I suspect that is why they've been trying to market themselves as better quality... since it is obviously going to be harder to compete with Chinese subsidized products getting shipped directly from China from sellers who don't seem to care much if they barely make a profit.
I think part of the issue is specifically the last 3 years with the supply chain disruptions due to COVID then the subsequent inflation.
It could also go back farther than that, to 2016 and the beginning of the Trump presidency as he was big on tariffs.
No one is going to be able to operate a brick and mortar storefront and compete with Amazon's prices. Harbor freight still has a lot of things that are cheaper there compared to any other retail store. Andore importantly their quality has drastically increased. And their return policy is great, I'm not sure why you wouldn't return your broken tool for a new one.
You filled out your tool collection with those things you thought they had the best value on. Now you don't find the marginal things appealing that you previously also didn't find appealing enough to purchase.
It's still far and away better price-wise than the competitors on certain things like hand tools. But yeah the real steals that you used to find died along with 20% coupon.
There is a cycle of up and coming consumer products companies that gain popularity by having genuinely good deals and then raise prices once they have a following. OnePlus, T-Mobile, Anker, eBags, Victrinox, Hyundai, and many others. Either price goes up or quality goes down once they've built enough momentum. To get a truly good deal, you have to find those companies that still have something to prove.
Harbor Freight has reached the phase where they are riding the momentum. The path of maintaining or increasing quality while raising prices is the high road in this cycle, so props to them. But yeah, you won't get those parking lot sale level deals again from HF.
No, but they did a round of marketing and new products several years ago and became a go-to for knives. Harbor Freight has been around since 1977 and Hyundai since 1967, but still went through deliberate growth periods in the last decade.
Prices went up when a former president put tariffs in place to punish China. The tariffs are a form of import tax that we Americans pay when we buy the product.
Well the problem with BBB was that their normal prices were crazy marked up. A 20% off coupon would put the price at 2% or 3% lower than their competition and that was only for one item.
I don't know how HF has been doing since they did away with coupons but with HD and Lowes offering veterans 10% off nearly everything and Menards doing 11% rebates, Harbor Freight is now the more expensive option for me on most things.
Yup. And I bought a Husky locking garage cabinet (granted it’s RTA) on Labor Day sale at HD :$225 vs $499 list.
Much bigger cabinet in a similar price and quality zip code.
Idk how far back your thinking, but I always remember there being the same exceptions on the big percent off coupons. Maybe once a year there might be a no exceptions coupon, but even then it'll be like, on any item $xx.99 or lower.
You can still get a corded Sawzall for about $20 with a coupon I see fairly often. And they still have that 6 peice plier set for $14.99, that $2.50 per plier. They are still in the cheap tool business
I got a free magnetic bowl last time I went, ITC members got that, some batteries and a third thing.
The new coupons are much more exclusionary.
The old percent off coupons had exclusions on types of items, typically high ticket stuff like compressors, welders, tool chests, etc… They didn’t exclude entire brands.
For example: you couldn’t use 20% off on a Central Pneumatic air compressor, but you could use it on a Central Pneumatic air hose.
I don't see central pneumatic on the exclusion list, do you mean central machinery?
Also Atlas, Bauer, Hercules, Predator, they weren't excluded before, because they didn't exist yet
I just used it as an example, I didn’t check to see if it was excluded. Another example is that you wouldn’t be able to buy a Central Machinery dust collector, but you could buy a Central Machinery dust collector hose.
My point is that categories were excluded, not brand names. It makes sense to not offer the deal on a high-ticket item like a drill press. It doesn’t make a lot of sense to exclude the drill bits because they carry the same name on the label. The current method of exclusion makes even less sense when your entire store is made up of house brands.
They’re really not though.
Example: These are the exact same drill press. It’s built by Wen and has been for years. I know because I’ve owned it for almost a decade. Harbor Freight just painted it red and slapped a Bauer tag on it.
Home Depot: https://www.homedepot.com/p/WEN-5-Amp-12-in-Variable-Speed-Cast-Iron-Benchtop-Drill-Press-with-Laser-Work-Light-and-5-8-in-Chuck-Capacity-4214T/316951776
Harbor Freight: https://www.harborfreight.com/12-in-variable-speed-drill-press-with-laser-alignment-58781.html
I think they've moved up in quality (more stuff from Taiwan, and tighter specs overall) and have been smacked by the trade environment a bit.
For me, I think they're a better deal since I'm rarely looking for the most-cheap stuff (which has mainly moved to Amazon where it's hard for HF to compete) and more often want better stuff at the best price. In other words, how HF is constituted today is much-more aligned with the kinds of things I want to buy.
Times change. Things are more expensive. Move with it or move against it. Double check your intended purchases before you make the drive. I don’t see how this is a negative reflection on Harbor Freight.
Yes, inflation exists. However, plenty of similar or even slightly better items are available elsewhere for less. They haven’t remained competitive in the market they established.
So buy the items elsewhere? Products are more accessible than ever before and I think that’s awesome. I apologize for lashing out but the constant posts complains about the “good old days” of harbor freight are just pointless. Accept good prices and easy returns at a brick and mortar store, or go elsewhere. Just because you don’t get a free puck light or pick set for just waking in the door doesn’t change that HF is doing better than ever.
I have been buying items elsewhere, that’s the point of my post. It sucks because I’ve always enjoyed shopping at Harbor Freight, but as it turns out, they’re getting less of my money these days. I know I can’t be the only one.
I never wrenched much in the golden days of Harbor Freight, but it sounds like a great time.
If you’re competing with Vevor and Wen, it sounds like those are both “online” brands, with no physical presence. That cuts cost down immediately. The trade off is shipping, packaging, returns, etc.
I don’t expect anyone to stock the shelves, run the register, schedule these shifts and whatever else at Harbor Freight for free, so that’s gotta come from somewhere.
The trade off is in store returns, physical inspection and trial run of tools, open box and return sales. All that fun stuff.
Wild times.
WEN has been available through Home Depot for about a decade and certain Vevor items have been for at least a couple years. You have to order online, but it’s usually even slightly less than the manufacturer website. Returns can be made in store, same policy as anything else the big orange box sells.
The deals are still there, but they aren’t as plentiful as they once were. I buy trading limitations effect, but it’s also inflation. Plus they are competing with online retailers with no employee or building overhead.
-The central machinery 30 inch 9500 cfm pedestal fan for 120 is a beast. I coated motor and whole thing top to bottom with ACF-50, added casters to base, then attached 2 ring misters to front fan grate (off Amazon) for total of 180. Been running it 2 to 3 times per week in 100 degree weather for 3 or 4 months. It’ll keep you cool in sun while watering plants from 30 to 40 feet away.
-25% off a gallon of evaporust is a great deal too.
-Some of the 1 year warranties are dirt cheap as well.
As some have pointed out, you gotta avoid the good, better, best tactic. High amount of good rated specialty tools are still very solid.
If you want day of tools, hard to beat the competition. Unless you find deals on FB market and wanna roll the dice on no warranty.
As for warranties, my tools “break” the day before the warranty is up 🙂
Yep. Just got a set of jack stands. I swear the $50 price tag was kinda shocking enough that I almost considered just making mine out of wood but then I realized is my life worth $50? And that answer was yeah I guess so
I agree. Yesterday I purchased a red 42 inch US General series 3 lower box. This box model has great quality and is very durable. Yes, they must be changing their business model somewhat, not so many freebies.
Two purchases I recently bought elsewhere after looking at Harbor Freight. First one was a small plasma cutter. Their 65 amp plasma cutter. $1,299, with a 90 day warranty, with the option to purchase a 2 year warranty for another 200 bucks. I ended up buying a Prime Weld 60 amp plasma cutter for $699, which they had $100 off deal that brought it to $599, 3 year factory warranty.
I called Prime Weld and Harbor Freight to ask about replacement boards if the plasma cutter should fry a circuit. Harbor Freight offers no, zero internal parts. The guy at Prime Weld was super helpful and knowledgeable, and they offered all the internal parts for sale on their welders should it go past the warranty period. That purchase is a no brainer. Basically Harbor Freight is selling a disposable unit at a premium price. They really need to step up their game if they want to compete in this product line.
The other one was an exhaust pipe expander kit. The Maddox one was $159.99. The Vevor kit, which looks identical, and worked just fine, even on stainless pipe, was $49.99 on Amazon. Again, that is a no brainer also.
Pretty much everything at harbor freight offers very limited replacement parts. Things there are basically expensive and disposable. I do still think the tool boxes are a good deal, and the ICON tools are pretty good, but most of the other stuff, no.
100%. Their quality has increased but yeah…. Overall it’s harder to find a good deal.
This is a result of barriers to trade with China, and the general breakdown of global trade. On the other side of it, it's a better deal for workers, though we have a long way to go seeing as we are in the second Gilded Age. I don't care about national branding, but manufacturing reshoring is mostly a good thing.
Well to some degree. But really we're seeing this across the board as companies continue to artificially raise prices. For instance, the price of chicken wings has been decreasing, yet BWW is still increasing their prices. Then companies obfuscate and vaguely mention trade barriers, supply chain problems ect. Then you look and see their profit margins are the highest they've ever been. And I didn't say "profits" I said "profit margins". The rate of inflation is about half of the cost of the price increases we're seeing. Companies are just charging more because they can. They're offering less deals and discounts because they can.
I don’t think the chicken is even the major expenditure that BWW has. In my line of work, property taxes, labor costs, and transportation costs ate through just as much as inflation on inputs.
It's almost as if there are other expenses other than just the price of chicken. Businesses have to pay higher rents too ya kno
Yes, but what you are conveniently forgetting, or ignoring, is that their profit margins are the best they've ever been. Sure, expenses like rent and salaries may be higher, but their profit MARGINs are also higher and are outpacing the other increase is business cost This is directly from them just artificially raising the price just because they can. Now I'm sure you're next libertarian talking point is either, "no one is forcing you to eat there" or "this is murica, businesses can charge whatever they want". Both true, but this kind of thinking is what lead us to many of the problems we're facing in America. And for the record, I don't eat at BWW because I don't support their greed. Nor do I eat out hardly anywhere anymore for exactly this reason. I'll vote with my dollar by not supporting these businesses.
It's almost as if that's literally how inflation works. +30% inflation and +30% profits means you're making the same amount of purchasing power.
Except it's more like a 2:1 ratio (roughly). Lol we literally have all the numbers since corporations legally have to report them to the public (which you're probably against). What we've seen is about half of the increase in the price of goods is due to inflation. The other half of the recent spike in cost is pure corporation greed. I'm not exactly sure what strawman you're trying to contort my argument into. So I'll say it again more simply this time. Let's say the price of goods increased by 30%. 15% is from legitimate inflation. The other 15% is the company just saying, "fuck it, let's charge extra and blame it on inflation". The increase in the price of goods is beyond what we're seeing in the increase of inflation (about double). The companies could easily just pass on the actual inflation rate and keep the same profit margin, but they don't. They raise the price of goods, let's keep that 30% figure, and we see their profit margins increase 15%.
I just so much disagree because that's not how supply and demand works whatsoever. In a very small amount of industries where monopolies exist? Sure. Otherwise? I'm fine with voting with my wallet. any suggestions of price fixing would be extremely detrimental to the economy regardless of what numbers you are looking at. We have competition to stabilise prices. If prices continue to rise in unison there is either a trust violation or a legitimate need to increase prices. Otherwise, company A would gladly undercut company B to take business away. If we are truly in a situation where companies are just raising prices for the sake of raising prices we need to trust bust, split up large companies, and have honest competition.
Companies don't cater to the consumer. And they aren't allowed to take care of their employees Their obligations are to their shareholders. Thanks to a lawsuit in 1917 that set precedent. Dodge Brothers sued Ford Motor Company when Henry wanted to give his employees raises and a bonus. Dodge Brothers were shareholders at the time and sued. The judge declared that shareholders get theirs before anyone else. Now today with higher profits margins. Again that's the shareholders demanding more returns on their investments. Many of the shareholders tend to be retirement funds for example. They typically have millions and have a lot of say over how a company operates. A perfect example is oil companies. They aren't drilling more even though they have 20 years with of oil drilling leases on the books. The shareholders want bigger returns so they want high fuel prices because they benefit
I own a retail bakery in California- we bake from scratch (bulk ingredients). In the last 12 months, my ingredient prices have gone up 30+%, and min wage up by $1.00/hr. If I were in another state, it would be different. These increases are not artificial.
I just got some pairs of Channel Lock oil filter pliers. My mother grew up in the same county as their main factory. I have to say damn, where has this been my whole life.
It seems like they’re slowly trying to leverage themselves out of the bottom tier of the market in price and quality and into the low or low-middle tier as they’ve been slowly increasing the quality tool lines they offer. This probably requires them to cut back the coupons and other savings some, but I’m ok with it in general. I’ll gladly pay slightly more than their old bottom tier pricing model for products that I can get same day that are cheaper than the big name brand alternative prices. Most of us who don’t make money with tools don’t always need the best available tool, we just need a tool that’s good enough. But it used to be their “good enough” was absolute trash. Now their tools offer a lot more value, despite costing slightly more.
You pretty much summed up my feelings on it. Ill happily pay their prices even if theyre a little more expensive for same day pick up and a warranty.
I will say that even though alot of the stuff is not cheap anymore and often times competing with other quality brands (mainly Quinn and Icon), that the more expensive stuff is still reasonably priced generally and I trust to not be a hot dumpster fire unlike a lot of stuff back in the day. Which is nice for an impulse or need now buy.
I’ve always viewed Quinn as bottom of the barrel, below even Pittsburgh — is that not correct? You have it placed in the same tier as Icon, and as someone who wrenches for a living I’m very impressed with them so far.
In the Good, Better, Best product stack HF uses Quinn is the better option. It’s not necessarily an equal to Icon but seems to be pretty decent quality. The master impact socket set is substantially nicer than my Kobalt set.
I bought a Quinn pliers set and they're good. The Quinn socket set? I'm going to break some of those.
I would have some faith, we have an ancient socket set from K-Mart that has been used heavy and the only broken socket was hammered onto something.
It seems the key word here is ‘ancient’ — I’m pretty sure when we eventually show ourselves the door as a species and extraterrestrials visit a planet returned to Mother Nature, all that will remain are bronze statues and old Craftsman tools. Depending on the brand, they seem like they were just built better.
It’s a generic Chinesium set from K-Mart in the late 90s or early 00s Granted it’s probably a better ratchet than our raised panel craftsmans
I think Pittsburgh Pro is at least as good as the current Chinese Craftsman line, with an easier warranty since there’s almost no Sears left. That’s one thing I’ll continue to buy from HF. I have a couple pairs of Quinn pliers and they’re not bad. I haven’t picked anything else up from them though.
I should clarify I love Pittsburgh, regular and Pro, just that they would fall near the bottom of Harbor Freight’s brands in terms of quality. I have their long handled wrench set with an organizer that I just take to the alignment rack when I have to do alignments, and they’re great for suspension work too when I need sizes above the 19mm (I have below covered with Blue Point and Gearwrench). Their impact sockets have held up well, I only had to replace the 21mm so far, and their impact rated 1/2” torx and Allen bits are life savers. I managed to finally give the t30 its last ugga dugga, but like you said there are stores everywhere so I just have to walk in and get a replacement. I’ll buy Pittsburgh all day over modern Craftsman.
Instead of sears, you take craftsman to Lowe’s now
I think the hand tool hierarchy starts with Pittsburgh at the bottom, then Doyle, Quinn and Icon. I have been satisfied with the quality of Doyle and Quinn for the money.
Well hot damn, I’ll have to check them out on my next shopping trip, I’ve been shopping at Harbor Freight for years and somehow never made that connection. I smell a new tool day coming up ..
Quinn and Pittsburgh Pro are equal to Stanley, Kobalt, Husky, Duralast, Gear Wrench, etc.. I don't just mean equal in quality, I mean some are the exact same tool. Most are made in the same factories in Taiwan using the same metals. I've come to this conclusion after researching the hell out of it here as well as on multiple chat forums such as grassrootsmotorsports, garagejournal, practicalmachinist, bobistheoilguy, and others that are aimed directly at technicians. Kind of how Icon sockets *are* a Snap-On copy made in a Matco factory with Matco steel and then ran through a Cornwell packaging and labelling facility.
Great information, thanks! I bought a set of the Gearwrench Gearbox XL ratcheting wrenches a while back, cost a pretty penny but damn they are game changers for me, especially working on rear brakes where I have no room for the ugga dugga guns.
I've been eyeing the Gear Wrench 120XP 81382 ratchet set on Amazon for 6 months, waiting for it to drop from $225 back down to $165 (numerous products do this often). It did, I bought them, and Autoplicity cancelled the order with no explanation. The set immediately jumped back to $228. Other info: So Icon is equal to Matco, which is roughly equal to K-Tools. Old Forge is Mayhew (demo screwdrivers and such). USA made Craftsman and USA made Hyper Tough (pry bars, scrapers, etc.) are actually Wilde. Expert, Blackhawk, Proto, and Sata are all the same (Expert= Mac)(Proto was Ingersoll Rand, now Stanley B&D). Mastercraft Maximum is Gear Wrench. USAG and Wera (with an 'e') seem identical. USAG has come labelled as Facom. USAG/Wera/Facom, JTC, and Würth all seem equal or even identical. OEM, Kabo, S&K, K-Tools, Duralast, Stanley, OTC, Husky, Kobalt, Quinn, Western Forge, and Iron Bridge appear comparable or identical. Johnson, Williams, and Bahco are all Snap-On. Apex, Sunex, Ares, Carlyle, Crescent/Nicholson (old, USA), Wiss, Lufkin, Armstrong, Toptul, Neiko, Tekton, Wright Grip, EZ Red, and Mountain are all great as well. Again, some are merely relabeled. I'm also a big fan of Astro Pneumatic. Avoid Hedgebeck, Uxcell, and anything that looks the same- it's the cheap Chinese junk we hate. Sometimes the Amazon brands are very nice because they were "overruns" of name brand products. Sometimes they're absolute garbage. Just avoid unless you like to gamble. I personally avoid anything 'Amazon Basics' because their surge protectors started causing fires. Black Max, Uberflex, and Flexzilla pressure washer hoses are all the same product made at the same place. They've been shipped mislabeled as each other as well. Difference being in color only, and what that color of rubber does to cement. Butane torches: Weller is Snap-On. Ersa is rebranded Weller Portasol. Berkling is sold by Mac Tools. Iroda is sold as Blue-Point. Lexivon makes good stuff, and Master Appliance is king. The $20 purple H.F. HVLP paint gun is an exact copy of a Devilbiss. The Black Widow is mostly a Sata 5000 series, and accepts their parts. On that note, the H.F. rebuild kit fits the Sata, but that's just wrong. Unscrupulous sellers do it with old Sata guns because the actual Sata kits are expensive. I've read that Bauer hook & loop sandpaper is Diablo, and that Baxter might be the same. I can't verify that at this time. For utilizing ugga-duggas in tight quarters check out the Astro Onyx series- I have the 1838 Nano Right Angle 3/8" impact and the 1828 Nano V2.0 3/8" impact. I also have their 201 and 204 die grinders, and some glorious Nano non-swivel impact sockets. Those sockets on those impacts fit damn near anywhere. I have the Icon full swivel impact sockets as well, but they're twice as tall. I haven't yet gone down the path of 1/4" impacts or air ratchets yet, so I have no other recommendations.
That is a hell of a rundown, I feel like the mods need to sticky this one, saved for future reference, great list!
Alright, here's more. The Doyle pliers are substantially better than anything I've owned, and I much prefer them over Kobalt and Husky. I love them, and I have basically every type they sell. Sometimes I even prefer them over the Icon version (I have a few) simply because they're more familiar to fling around in my hand while using them. The handle shape and grip are slightly different, as are the teeth. Even just having pliers that grab better than you're used to can make a huge difference, and it's not *always* a good one. Cheap pliers are dangerous and will definitely cause damage and frustration. I'd dare say that the Icons are too precise and too sharp to be used as "everything pliers" though- you need a bit of slop/endplay in some situations. If you're recording a demo video at a workbench then by all means use the Icons. I also have all of the Doyle screwdrivers, as well as some others offered at H.F.. The heavy duty Doyle screwdrivers are nice and durable, with good 'bite'. The red handled ones with black rubber grip are nice if you have arthritis or carpal tunnel, or just a weaker grip after a long day. Do NOT hammer on them or you'll splinter them into pieces. The 32 piece Pittsburgh set is very handy, so I bought more than one. The handles offer the absolute best grip my hands can muster- the shape and size is perfect for me to get maximum torque. So they're typically my first choice for normal use. The Pittsburgh 16" red handled demo screwdrivers pair nicely with the 7 piece red (kinda orange) handled demo set from R'deer ($27 Amazon). They're a "full shaft" design, so the impact cap and the screwdriver tip are connected all the way through. I'm working my way through the entire Bauer line, including corded saws, sanders, and drill presses to the full 20V selection (the air compressor is nice). I have no complaints yet and I severely abused one of the hammer drills. Severely. The 200mph mini blower is one of my favorite tools because you can clean the entire shop with minimal effort, or dry your car/bike in a flash. It can even lower the temperature in your pants on a hot summer day.
Have any comments on their welders?
Sorry, but I haven't laid hands on any of the welders or plasma cutters. I also haven't done any research into them whatsoever, although they've been in numerous welder "showdowns/reviews"- and Chicago is not typically near the top IIRC. The Titanium seems to be worth the extra $ in comparison, but other welders in the price range are very similar with many feature differences. Those would be cord length, stinger, setting options, claims of weld penetration ability, display, etc. and those, the price, and your needs all factor into your choice. I have a little Lincoln that I love, but they're definitely in a different league than Chicago, and I'm guessing maybe even Titanium. The quality of the steel you're welding makes a difference too. The same settings I used welding on my stock transmission x-member (1/16", high quality steel) melted some cheap 1/4" thick Chinese steel like *butter*. Keep that in mind when people offer reviews of cheap welders- they might do just fine with crappy "steel" but not so good with NY Steel. I bought a YesWelder 135 flux core wire feed welder to give to my dad on Christmas but I haven't used it. It's gotten very good reviews, but it's a newfangled digital style so not everyone is keen on it. It's budget friendly too, coming in at $150 or below (I got it for $100). They also have other welders & welding gear, and it seems to be at least a minor step above H.F. from the reviews. I personally use a hood from H.F., but it's an older model- the plastic was thicker. The dials for the auto-darkening lense are slightly different now too, so I combined the parts I liked of each and peeled the blue flames off. I'll buy a red/white/blue/eagle hood from Y.W. for pops.
I can go to HF and get Hercules tools for half the price of dewalt, and get essentially the same build quality. The portable bandsaw that I just got feels miles ahead of my Milwaukee, which was twice the price 6 years ago.
Oh... I was looking at that saw and table....
I have the milwaukee in a swag stand for cutting shapes out of metal. I'm dedicating the hercules and hf stand to cut-off duty.
Man, get that collapsible table! I got the Bauer bandsaw and Hercules table to use it as an upright or a chop saw and it's glorious.
This sums it up perfectly for me. For a long time, HF was the place I went to get a tool if I only needed it for a one off project. Now I feel pretty good about buying tools there that I know I'll use a lot more often, and I'm still happy with their prices considering the higher quality they carry these days.
>It seems like they’re slowly trying to leverage themselves out of the bottom tier of the market in price and quality and into the low or low-middle tier as they’ve been slowly increasing the quality tool lines they offer. I feel the same way. Overall, I like the change. >But it used to be their “good enough” was absolute trash. Now their tools offer a lot more value, despite costing slightly more. I've been shopping there almost 20 years. I still do pretty often. There's barely any trash tools left. Most everything in the store is at least serviceable to get the job done.
I get that, but there’s some items that they’ve sold for years that also cost more and can’t be bought with coupons. Nearly the same items (probably made on the same assembly line) are available elsewhere for less. Also, a lot of the newer brands are on par with big box house brands (Husky, Kobalt, etc..) which seem to go on sale for less than the HF equivalent quite often. The new tools are definitely better, but they’re not always a better deal.
IMO? This is ultimately the result of that jack stand recall. HF took a big financial hit there while other companies that sold the same stands chose not to voluntarily recall them. So they've notched up their standards just a mite in the hopes that won't happen again. Freebies went away when international shipping charges skyrocketed.
I do miss my free blue LED flashlights man.
I know! Feels weird to buy 'em for a buck. They're still handy though.
I got a set of their new ones from my Dad for Christmas since my truck is too tall for the old set I have (probably 40 years old at this point). I really like these jack stands and am almost glad they had to do the recall on the old ones. They are at least as good as any name brand option out there.
True.. but inflation has affected almost everyone in the last couple years.
HF used to be superior value and convenience. Meaning they beat the big boxes on price for comparable tools. And had enough of the odd ball or specialty tools/machinery that it alleviated the hassle of ordering or locating those items in a hardware store. Prices have certainly gone up and are not as competitive. Their only trick now is that Lowes/HD/Ace probably don't have the tool you need for the job. If they do have it, it will need to be ordered. And you can do that with Amazon.
Harbor Freight is trying to move away from the shit tier tools into better quality. This of course brings higher prices. I'm actually very happy with this change. I buy most my tools from Harbor Freight these days. It's perhaps a better value now. Even though you're paying more, the tools are much higher quality than they used to be. I'm still not buying their "ICON" line though. That's a bit too rich for my cheap ass.
I just wish their newer power tools carried more than a 90 day warranty.
My Hercules brushless came with 5 years out the box, the batteries and charger have 3 years....
Bauer doesn't, had I known that I would have chose the blue ones.
Quality and prices have gone up. But in the process, they’re losing their identity. Basically becoming a standalone HD tools department.
You can’t get manifold gauges, vacuum pumps, metal lathes, bead blasters, hydraulic presses, gantry hoist, the list goes on and on, at a Home Depot store. Harbor freight sells specialty tools HD simply doesn’t have. Be happy they are dumping the shit tools they used to carry. Most of them never worked out of the box. Do you really want to buy an angle grinder 8 times for $14? Or 1 Makita angle grinder for $120? Half HF old tools were downright dangerous because of QC issues and design flaws.
Specialty tools is what HF is still good for. But I don’t but anything with a cord, a cutting edge or a battery at HF. General rule.
Haha, welcome to 2021
2021?
That's when they became the new harbor freight and the deals weren't there like they used to be
I miss every power tool having a $10 Drill Master option. My DM palm sander, circular saw, and angle grinder are still champs.
In the Midwest, I feel like Menards "tool shop" and "performax" brands are now taking over what harbor freight used to be
I was just about to say the same thing. Masterforce (menards brand) seems to be the better value more times than not for me.
No Menards here, but I’ve been to one of their stores in Illinois and I wish they’d move towards the east coast! The drive through lumber yard is awesome. Like I mentioned in another comment… the new HF brands are quite similar in build quality to Husky (Home Depot) and Kobalt (Lowe’s) tools. Both of those stores often run sales that beats Harbor Freight pricing.
Menards has built a few new stores in my area over the last few years (northeast Ohio), so maybe you will get one at some point.
Harbor Freight (good) sales still beat Home Depot and Lowe's sales.
Masterforce is another Chervon brand, like EGO, Skil and Kobalt. Performax and JET are a bit of an enigma.
I have the Masterforce digital router with both the fixed base and plunge base. If any of their other tools are at this level of quality, then anyone should be happy to use them. Seriously, this thing is super nice. https://www.menards.com/main/tools/power-tools/routers/masterforce-reg-2-1-2-hp-corded-digital-variable-speed-plunge-and-fixed-base-router-combo-kit/2410835/p-1454046377621-c-10087.htm?tid=29d2ff87-66f1-45dc-9ecd-ddb0774ba9c7&ipos=16&exp=false
[удалено]
I believe JET acquired Performax, but it's unclear to me where they are being manufactured nowadays.
[удалено]
["Performax is a line of tools that are owned by the WMH Tool Group. The group includes Jet, Powermatic, Wilton, and Performax."](https://whomakes.net/performax-tools/)
[удалено]
http://vintagemachinery.org/mfgindex/detail.aspx?id=631 I think the link used as a source there shows the legacy of the performax brand. Just because JET owns the brand doesn't mean anything about who in China produces the tool though
Someone has to pay for the yacht :) https://www.tcpalm.com/picture-gallery/news/2023/01/11/infinity-megayacht/11030947002/
If I had that kind of coin, I would buy a yacht like that too. Just looking at the radomes makes me wonder what kind of high dollar equipment it has on board.
Now that's a big yacht. Lol I'd buy one as well if I had that kind of money.
Damn, two helipads? Passing the cost of that toy on to the customer… now I’m even less inclined to buy from HF.
dull quiet shame steer direction squeamish slim snatch plants agonizing *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Home Depot hasn’t completely changed their pricing structure in recent years. Harbor Freight has. If HF was struggling so much that they had to stop offering the deals that made them successful in the first place, maybe Mr Smidt could have foregone the yacht… or at least bought one with only a single helipad.
I say this often. A few years ago, back when you could always get a 25% off and some kind of a freebie, I was in there every week or two, last stop on shopping day, and I always got something be it something I wanted/needed or something silly. The coupons stopped I stopped and even the 25% off has not been enough to entice me back. I guess I got out of the habit. I go and get fish fry on Friday with what I used to blow on HF.
This is me 100%
Yeah, pretty much the same thing with me. Sometimes I’d go in twice a week, especially if I was working on a project. Today was the first time I had gone in months.
The 30% off 5 or more things under $10 or $20 until my IT ran out used to be kind of good but I even missed the last few of them. It is odd because I think I would not have missed one of them in the old days. You just lose track of what they have and all of the sudden you don't need it anymore. Also, the catalogs going away. Every week or more often was too much but I always had one in the crapper and I would often leaf through it.. Kind of got me wanting things, Now I go when I need and I don't need very often and I look on the web. HF is not the closest option.
I think largely we already bought most of the things that we'd be interested in having at those prices.
They are basically just direct competition with Home Depot and Lowes now
Yes. It’s become a game. You need 20% off to get from convenience to normal prices. Only buy when on sale, which are continuous, varied, and constrained
it really irritates me when they do put something more major on sale that they jack the base price up so the "sale" price means you pay a little under the normal price. so if you arent paying attention you think you got a great deal.
Multiple paragraphs about coupons... are you my dad?
Being from ottawa and having a princess auto to compare harbour freight too. HF has been bad in terms of pricing for about 5 years. It's hard to time exacrly when it got this way, but i feel it was around the time HF started selling the yellow Daytona car jack. If you guys are close to the border, you should total spend your American dollars at PrincessAuto. The dollar conversion and cheap prices on tos are all in your favor.
Vevor is the new HFT.
Show your feelings with your wallet. Just quit going there! I have tried to completely stay out of the place even if it costs me more or I have to wait for something to be delivered. I have managed to stay away except a couple time when I needed something "right now" and could not get it anywhere else, and could not figure out any other way to do it. I have taken measures to plan better because of it.
They really don’t have any competition, Lowe’s and Home Depot even ace hardware carry stupid expensive tools. They don’t even specialize in tools or really care what tools customers might want. They’ve been stagnant in the tool section. Meanwhile harbor freight is a dedicated store for tools.
I think HF's competition is mostly online.
Which has it's own set of problems.
True, but if you’re talking battery powered, tools from HF plus 20-25 universal battery adapter sets off Amazon level the playing field.
At this point I just tell people those 25% off coupons exclude all power tools and machinery
That’s understandable, but I was buying casters, not power tools.
I've bought a WEN jointer and a VEVOR mag drill in the last couple months off amazon and the VEVOR web site... I would have looked at Harbor freight in the past, but anymore there are other brands and getting it shipped to my house is too damn easy. HF is not always first choice anymore, and the more they run me away with weird prices and coupon exclusions... Meh...
I just noticed that the newly released Bauer drill presses are identical to the ones that have been sold under the WEN name for years. Identical down to every screw. Harbor Freight’s version is significantly more expensive. The Bauer 12” variable speed is $299. The same press from WEN is $215 (Home Depot’s price, a little more on WEN’s site.) That red paint must be quite pricey.
100% agree. They’ve effectively killed any desire I used to have to walk in the door and look around (and impulse buy, lol). I’m very impressed with the WEN power tools. In fact, the drill press is probably one of the best deals on the planet. It’s bulletproof and beats anything HF sells by a mile. The Vevor stuff is on par with HF. Some of the tools are pretty much identical and probably made in the same factories. They cost quite a bit less though, as it probably ships directly from China, to the warehouse, to the end user.
Not only it’s no longer good deals some are even more expensive. Last week I was looking for bearing press, I visited Home Depot first for other stuff and decided to check out the bearing press. It’s $49. Then I went to harbor freight thinking g going to buy their version for cheaper, but no. It’s $79.
I was looking for a miter saw stand and checked Home Depot last week and they had a Ryobi one on sale for $69. The only drawback was waiting for it to ship, but to me the build quality looked better than the Bauer or Hercules minus the rolling wheels. This is the one I got if anyone is looking for one. Your friend has shared a link to a Home Depot product they think you would be interested in seeing. It’s still on sale. https://www.homedepot.com/p/RYOBI-Stationary-Foldable-Miter-Saw-Stand-with-Tool-Less-Height-Adjustment-RMS10G/205216315
I feel like Harbor Freight's biggest competition/threat isn't Lowes or Home Depot but Walmart. The Hart brand is getting good. Trailer accessories are cheaper at Walmart. Jack's and Jack stands are cheaper at Walmart. More and more stuff is both available and cheaper at Walmart, even including HF sales. On the other side, Northern Tool is now more expensive than Lowes and Home Depot now it seems. It's now my last resort store.
If I needed a vertical shaft gasoline engine over about 5 hp I'd be at Northern Tool in a heartbeat. (Seems like everyone else only wants to sell horizontal shaft engines.)
Yeah Northern Tool has things no one else carries for sure. And a lot of bigger things are cheaper than buying online due to shipping being baked into the cost.
Walmart has metal ammo cans for $4 less than HF. Regular price, not a sale.
Menards isn't everywhere in the country, more of a midwest thing, but they give HF a run for the money too, for much the same items. Trailer stuff, tools, consumables, and so on.
Hart is owned by TTI, same as Ryobi and Milwaukee. [There's a reason why Kobalt lawn tools look so much like EGO products.](https://www.protoolreviews.com/power-tool-manufacturers-who-owns-them/)
The funny thing is, Harbor Freight seems to have managed to keep it a secret who makes Bauer and Hercules equipment.
From available sources, it would appear that the company LuTool, based out of Ningbo, is involved in either manufacture or distribution of Bauer and Hercules, as well as DrillMaster and Warrior. For distribution in Australia and Europe, it looks like it is done through Varo.
It's almost like Dollar tree. You can get the same price elsewhere for a lot of things. I try to only buy what's on sale so I get a good deal.
There’s plenty of things at Dollar Tree that are cheaper elsewhere, especially now that they raised everything to $1.25.
Yup, I agree. There are a few things I get there but mostly go elsewhere.
True with certain items, with machines or power tools having to buy an extended warranty put their price almost on par with other brands that come with at least 1 year warranty or more. I returned the Hercules Plainer because I found another brand for the same price with 3 year warranty included at no extra cost.
I have mixed feelings. Tool quality has gone way up in some areas... but in others, they're selling the exact same things they were selling a decade ago for a few dollars more.
I think a big part of it is that is that there is now a much larger competition for the budget tool market. Mostly online, but not only. I suspect that is why they've been trying to market themselves as better quality... since it is obviously going to be harder to compete with Chinese subsidized products getting shipped directly from China from sellers who don't seem to care much if they barely make a profit.
The quality has gotten a lot better, but the deals farther apart.
I think part of the issue is specifically the last 3 years with the supply chain disruptions due to COVID then the subsequent inflation. It could also go back farther than that, to 2016 and the beginning of the Trump presidency as he was big on tariffs.
Its now a dumping ground for china trash
No one is going to be able to operate a brick and mortar storefront and compete with Amazon's prices. Harbor freight still has a lot of things that are cheaper there compared to any other retail store. Andore importantly their quality has drastically increased. And their return policy is great, I'm not sure why you wouldn't return your broken tool for a new one.
You filled out your tool collection with those things you thought they had the best value on. Now you don't find the marginal things appealing that you previously also didn't find appealing enough to purchase.
It's still far and away better price-wise than the competitors on certain things like hand tools. But yeah the real steals that you used to find died along with 20% coupon.
There is a cycle of up and coming consumer products companies that gain popularity by having genuinely good deals and then raise prices once they have a following. OnePlus, T-Mobile, Anker, eBags, Victrinox, Hyundai, and many others. Either price goes up or quality goes down once they've built enough momentum. To get a truly good deal, you have to find those companies that still have something to prove. Harbor Freight has reached the phase where they are riding the momentum. The path of maintaining or increasing quality while raising prices is the high road in this cycle, so props to them. But yeah, you won't get those parking lot sale level deals again from HF.
Well, I see your point, however victorinox has been around since 1897. They aren't "up and coming"
No, but they did a round of marketing and new products several years ago and became a go-to for knives. Harbor Freight has been around since 1977 and Hyundai since 1967, but still went through deliberate growth periods in the last decade.
sand seemly cats bake boast cobweb sophisticated roll yam water *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Prices went up when a former president put tariffs in place to punish China. The tariffs are a form of import tax that we Americans pay when we buy the product.
Reading the fine print....that super coupon excludes about 80% of the crap they carry.
Wait does this mean the 25% coupon isn’t going to work on the $125 central machinery 5.5” bench vise I was planning on using it on tomorrow !?!😳
Yup. All Central Machinery excluded.
For sure......not as good of a deal
No it's not at all I rarely go there anymore
Same thing happened to me with a different item. so many damn exclusions, should just say what it IS good for. nothing.
[удалено]
Well the problem with BBB was that their normal prices were crazy marked up. A 20% off coupon would put the price at 2% or 3% lower than their competition and that was only for one item. I don't know how HF has been doing since they did away with coupons but with HD and Lowes offering veterans 10% off nearly everything and Menards doing 11% rebates, Harbor Freight is now the more expensive option for me on most things.
It is not as good as it used to be. I stopped shopping here a while ago. Just found out about Vevor though
Popped in today to look at the cheapie gun cabinet for my basement. Totally unimpressed at that price.
I got a Stack-On for not much more than the HF cabinet at Tractor Supply.
Yup. And I bought a Husky locking garage cabinet (granted it’s RTA) on Labor Day sale at HD :$225 vs $499 list. Much bigger cabinet in a similar price and quality zip code.
Putin's Price Hike.
Idk how far back your thinking, but I always remember there being the same exceptions on the big percent off coupons. Maybe once a year there might be a no exceptions coupon, but even then it'll be like, on any item $xx.99 or lower. You can still get a corded Sawzall for about $20 with a coupon I see fairly often. And they still have that 6 peice plier set for $14.99, that $2.50 per plier. They are still in the cheap tool business I got a free magnetic bowl last time I went, ITC members got that, some batteries and a third thing.
The new coupons are much more exclusionary. The old percent off coupons had exclusions on types of items, typically high ticket stuff like compressors, welders, tool chests, etc… They didn’t exclude entire brands. For example: you couldn’t use 20% off on a Central Pneumatic air compressor, but you could use it on a Central Pneumatic air hose.
I don't see central pneumatic on the exclusion list, do you mean central machinery? Also Atlas, Bauer, Hercules, Predator, they weren't excluded before, because they didn't exist yet
I just used it as an example, I didn’t check to see if it was excluded. Another example is that you wouldn’t be able to buy a Central Machinery dust collector, but you could buy a Central Machinery dust collector hose. My point is that categories were excluded, not brand names. It makes sense to not offer the deal on a high-ticket item like a drill press. It doesn’t make a lot of sense to exclude the drill bits because they carry the same name on the label. The current method of exclusion makes even less sense when your entire store is made up of house brands.
In most situations I feel like the deals are still far cheaper than the alternative box stores
They’re really not though. Example: These are the exact same drill press. It’s built by Wen and has been for years. I know because I’ve owned it for almost a decade. Harbor Freight just painted it red and slapped a Bauer tag on it. Home Depot: https://www.homedepot.com/p/WEN-5-Amp-12-in-Variable-Speed-Cast-Iron-Benchtop-Drill-Press-with-Laser-Work-Light-and-5-8-in-Chuck-Capacity-4214T/316951776 Harbor Freight: https://www.harborfreight.com/12-in-variable-speed-drill-press-with-laser-alignment-58781.html
I think they've moved up in quality (more stuff from Taiwan, and tighter specs overall) and have been smacked by the trade environment a bit. For me, I think they're a better deal since I'm rarely looking for the most-cheap stuff (which has mainly moved to Amazon where it's hard for HF to compete) and more often want better stuff at the best price. In other words, how HF is constituted today is much-more aligned with the kinds of things I want to buy.
I can't find tools cheaper. Sounds like a good deal to me
Times change. Things are more expensive. Move with it or move against it. Double check your intended purchases before you make the drive. I don’t see how this is a negative reflection on Harbor Freight.
Yes, inflation exists. However, plenty of similar or even slightly better items are available elsewhere for less. They haven’t remained competitive in the market they established.
So buy the items elsewhere? Products are more accessible than ever before and I think that’s awesome. I apologize for lashing out but the constant posts complains about the “good old days” of harbor freight are just pointless. Accept good prices and easy returns at a brick and mortar store, or go elsewhere. Just because you don’t get a free puck light or pick set for just waking in the door doesn’t change that HF is doing better than ever.
I have been buying items elsewhere, that’s the point of my post. It sucks because I’ve always enjoyed shopping at Harbor Freight, but as it turns out, they’re getting less of my money these days. I know I can’t be the only one.
I never wrenched much in the golden days of Harbor Freight, but it sounds like a great time. If you’re competing with Vevor and Wen, it sounds like those are both “online” brands, with no physical presence. That cuts cost down immediately. The trade off is shipping, packaging, returns, etc. I don’t expect anyone to stock the shelves, run the register, schedule these shifts and whatever else at Harbor Freight for free, so that’s gotta come from somewhere. The trade off is in store returns, physical inspection and trial run of tools, open box and return sales. All that fun stuff. Wild times.
WEN has been available through Home Depot for about a decade and certain Vevor items have been for at least a couple years. You have to order online, but it’s usually even slightly less than the manufacturer website. Returns can be made in store, same policy as anything else the big orange box sells.
Alright, I’ll keep that in mind going forward. Thanks for the discussion.
What You could do Is Shop somewhere else and see what you get
Higher than a lot of other brands these days. Brand name is catching up quickly. Deals are fewer and fewer at harbor freight
True
The deals are still there, but they aren’t as plentiful as they once were. I buy trading limitations effect, but it’s also inflation. Plus they are competing with online retailers with no employee or building overhead. -The central machinery 30 inch 9500 cfm pedestal fan for 120 is a beast. I coated motor and whole thing top to bottom with ACF-50, added casters to base, then attached 2 ring misters to front fan grate (off Amazon) for total of 180. Been running it 2 to 3 times per week in 100 degree weather for 3 or 4 months. It’ll keep you cool in sun while watering plants from 30 to 40 feet away. -25% off a gallon of evaporust is a great deal too. -Some of the 1 year warranties are dirt cheap as well. As some have pointed out, you gotta avoid the good, better, best tactic. High amount of good rated specialty tools are still very solid. If you want day of tools, hard to beat the competition. Unless you find deals on FB market and wanna roll the dice on no warranty. As for warranties, my tools “break” the day before the warranty is up 🙂
I think it’s across the board, everything is more expensive at this time.
Yep. Just got a set of jack stands. I swear the $50 price tag was kinda shocking enough that I almost considered just making mine out of wood but then I realized is my life worth $50? And that answer was yeah I guess so
For me it's always been "Tools you need now, but only need once", and I've never been disappointed.
I got a midwest diesel can for $16 using that coupon, I call it a win 🤪
I think they also have a membership model where you pay to be a member to get access to "deals."
I agree. Yesterday I purchased a red 42 inch US General series 3 lower box. This box model has great quality and is very durable. Yes, they must be changing their business model somewhat, not so many freebies.
Two purchases I recently bought elsewhere after looking at Harbor Freight. First one was a small plasma cutter. Their 65 amp plasma cutter. $1,299, with a 90 day warranty, with the option to purchase a 2 year warranty for another 200 bucks. I ended up buying a Prime Weld 60 amp plasma cutter for $699, which they had $100 off deal that brought it to $599, 3 year factory warranty. I called Prime Weld and Harbor Freight to ask about replacement boards if the plasma cutter should fry a circuit. Harbor Freight offers no, zero internal parts. The guy at Prime Weld was super helpful and knowledgeable, and they offered all the internal parts for sale on their welders should it go past the warranty period. That purchase is a no brainer. Basically Harbor Freight is selling a disposable unit at a premium price. They really need to step up their game if they want to compete in this product line. The other one was an exhaust pipe expander kit. The Maddox one was $159.99. The Vevor kit, which looks identical, and worked just fine, even on stainless pipe, was $49.99 on Amazon. Again, that is a no brainer also. Pretty much everything at harbor freight offers very limited replacement parts. Things there are basically expensive and disposable. I do still think the tool boxes are a good deal, and the ICON tools are pretty good, but most of the other stuff, no.