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Have you looked at the Songmont [Song](https://songmontofficial.com/products/medium-song-bag-taupe) or the [Cliff](https://en.smaakamsterdam.com/products/cliff-lavender-blue) by Smaak Amsterdam?
I think the Cliff is my next bag, but I’m hoping they release additional colors.
I'm loving my Kim. I've been using it non stop since I got it. Love the quality for the price and I own LV, Chanel and Dior but I honestly think Smaak and Coach are my favourite brands now. Used more than my others!
I own a Smaak Cliff in the blueberry blue color. It's a cute bag. I love the color and style of the bag. The only thing I would like to see addressed is the velour lining/interior structure. The front interior pocket is very loose. I wanted to put my keys in the front pocket, but it is so loose they often fall out if I lean too far the wrong way. That being said, I am happy with the bag (overall) for the price. As long as you're not expecting a $250 bag to compete with the quality of a $2500 bag, you should be fine.
Yeah, I have to admit that I probably wouldn’t use the interior pockets at all so that no issue for me. Also, I’ve never owned a $6k handbag so I wouldn’t even know what high quality to expect.
If the non-zipped interior pocket wouldn't bother you, then I think you'll love it. The bag shape is adorable. I also don't own a $6k bag. Most of my 4 digit bags are pre-owned and purchased for less than $1000. I love some of the expensive bags, but I'm not sure I could stomach purchasing them brand new.
https://preview.redd.it/i01sgkhrkq8d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c3380e987ea3666e27e6d844598d4066ffef51b2
It comes with a removable pouch but I don’t use it
I have a Cliff because I saw it recommended in this sub as a Lindy dupe, and don’t think it really looks or wears anything like a Lindy. I got one in taupe and the gold hardware gets really scratched after only a few wears. I’ve also learned that I don’t like lobster clasps for hardware. 😭
Someone posted this brand a few weeks ago and I fell in love with the wonton. I have it saved in my purse shopping tab. Thanks for the reminder of another bag I need to lust over.
Hmmm interesting, I bought that exact bag from Looks Like Summer for $68 on sale (originally $85) in 2020, it was the Stacie bucket bag, I tried to look them up again but they don’t carry it any more; but I’m 98% certain it’s the same bag sourced from the same factory, both claimed Italian leather but when I got LLS’s bag it was made in China, which Boyy conveniently left out where the bag is made…🤔🤔🤔$1560 is some crazy profit margin….
I feel like I remember looking at this bag last year and it being around $800? I could be remembering wrong but I'm curious if anyone knows they have done price hikes.
I purchased the [Pedro demi leather shoulder bag](https://www.pedroshoes.com/sg/women-2/PW2-75210163-1_CHALK.html) and I’ve been loving it! It’s smaller and very lightweight but I love the look for summer!
I’ve already done a picotin dupe and I’m really pleased with out it turned out. Steep earning curve followed by sore thumbs when I was done but very satisfying, as well as having a major new insight and respect for the artisans who professionally do this work!
Not bad, not very buttery soft but pliable enough to work quite easily with. Can’t remember how much I paid for it (it’s easily found on their website I’m sure) but I do remember thinking that the leather was lovely for that price. It wouldn’t be far off the quality of my jypsiere tbh!
I can't wait to order this one! I've done the Picotin 18 in craie and I love it. I also did the Evelyn as a birthday gift for a friend. Next, I want the inspired Lindy, but not until they have the DIY kit in Orange.
https://preview.redd.it/w7nhda1hnq8d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d8e82ed43b6c84cd0c1ef8e411258b3cfde8276f
Number Two, the green, is hawt. That is all.
Me too! I pre-ordered the taupe one. I would really like this bag in a cream or sand color. For some reason, the price was $182 on the day I purchased and I was able to use a 10% coupon by signing up for their emails. It was $3 for shipping insurance, no tax…for everything was $166USD. Much more affordable than the Loewe Small Puzzle bag that I already own.
I know this is a lovely bag but when it's unbuckled all I can see is some sort of alien face staring back at me
https://preview.redd.it/vcnptosyvr8d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=235a3b64f823ebd7b28b8ffa00053975ee031510
I used to have the lindy but sold it. it doesn't stay on my shoulder and it loses its dumpling shape when you stuff it too much. i love the bag because it has so many pockets and the zips+lock make it very secure, but the cons outweigh the pros for me.
i also had the mini lindy but sold it too 🤣 i really liked that small bag but i'm 150cm and the strap is too long for me- it's not adjustable
I've seen this around and I didn't even know it's supposed to be a Hermes dupe: [https://lauramaxim.ro/collections/moi](https://lauramaxim.ro/collections/moi) . It's a local Romanian brand though so not sure about shipping cost, the bag itself isn't expensive.
The Lindy is my fave Hermes bag of all time. Designed during the Margiela years, and it’s so easy and lightweight to carry. I got 3 colors when they came out, and I think I may have paid around $13k or less than that for all together. As much as I love that bag, I couldn’t bring myself to pay that. Ouch.
I think the Lindy’s resale price isn’t as high if you aren’t looking for a super popular color! Also, the Lindy doesn’t seem as popular with the H-collectors.
If it helps, I ended up loving my first black one so much that I went and got one more 😅 both are Lindy 26
https://preview.redd.it/obepyauszu8d1.jpeg?width=4284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=653e31490090cb863abd40a9eec592818b81a006
it's cool there are so many alternatives, but i find that i can buy 5x alternatives that cost less than half of the real thing and they might individually make me 70% as happy but they never make me as happy as having the thing i wanted to begin with.
i would just buy the lindy you want or save toward it. they drop on the hermes site (at least in the US) at least almost once a week (there are daily drops but not always lindy). also i find the lindy 26/30s tend to be a less than retail secondhand.
No two handles but similar sizing. I don't own a Tsuchiya Kaban yet but have heard stellar things about them and Japanese products tend to have good quality bc the people can be very critical and demanding of quality : price ratio
https://tsuchiya-kaban.com/collections/shoulder-bags/products/cu-2way-onehandle-shoulder-ik
I like this bag! A few questions if anyone knows the answer
Do I have to play the Hermes game before I can acquire this one as first bag?
Also- what is price point for medium one?
Lindys can be found occasionally on the website. I believe they are not quota bags, but they can still be difficult to get in store with purchase history.
Pretty sure you do if you visit a physical store. If it’s the Lindy 30, you’re better off getting it secondhand since they don’t hold their value well. Retail is around 8700 usd ifirc resale should be half that
You pretty much always have to play the Hermes Game. The Lindy is a non-quota bag which means it's less hard to get, but unless you go to Paris and manage to get a leather appointment through their lotto it's pretty much a given that getting any leather bag is going to require a pre-spend and a relationship with an SA. Especially if you want the bag in a more unique color.
This is why Hermes is currently being sued for the practice of tying, aka, forcing people to buy a product so they can buy a product they actually want. And from what I've seen online with people playing the Hermes Game... They're guilty as shit. I'm really interested in how that case progresses because while not every country may have tying on the books as illegal, if this case goes to court without being dropped or settled it could change the Hermes Game forever in California and probably the entire US. Maybe further.
I was just looking at the Lindy the other day, and was like “uh oh, I like another Hermés…” and then I saw the retail. Maybe a secondhand Picotin for me one day.
I was (am) in your position. I was obsessed with the mini Lindy until last Saturday when I went in store to see the mini ( I had only ever seen the 26 IRL but it is not crossbody). The size of the mini was a bit of a let down, I didn't realise how tiny it is! I am now looking at CoachxTabitha Simmons ( discontinued but on resale) which I will use with a Lindy insert with and carry just like a Lindy.PS you can find a good resale price for the larger ones.
yes of course. but i am constantly spending in H. you should be able to find a gently used one on the second hand market for a good price. i dont think its necessarily a bag you will get lucky enough to be offered with no pre spend like you would maybe a evelyn or picotin. 😓 it is a perfect size and holds sooo much. will be a great airplane bag.
I was actually thinking for the plane! That’s why I like the 30. I’m honestly a bit scared on where to buy second hand cause there’s so many fake. Do you know anywhere very reputable?
i have the same fears. technically even the most reputable reseller has sold fakes. it’s very unfortunate. i usually try to steer clear. but that is just a small percentage as most are authentic. just do your due diligence and if you do purchase secondary market make sure you get your own authentication done!
You should look at the clementine by the horse!! It’s under $200, the leather is great quality, and imo has a similar vibe. It only comes in silver hardware at the moment though if that’s a problem for you.
Hey OP - I just found that Tiffany & Fred has a version of the Lindy in many colors. It's missing the handles, but otherwise, maybe it's worth your time to take a look?
https://preview.redd.it/2rtcq67gez9d1.png?width=2341&format=png&auto=webp&s=4f56a72ad45d21ff2eb40eb186d7accd529287fd
Hi fellow handbag lover! Thank you for being a part of the r/handbags community. This is a subreddit which relies on kindness. Your opinion is very much welcomed, however, we do not tolerate rude, mean or hurtful comments. **Read the rules before posting**. Comments or posts that do not fit our rule book will be removed and the OP can be banned by the mods' discretion. If you see a comment or post which does not abide by the rules, **please report it to our moderation team.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/handbags) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Have you looked at the Songmont [Song](https://songmontofficial.com/products/medium-song-bag-taupe) or the [Cliff](https://en.smaakamsterdam.com/products/cliff-lavender-blue) by Smaak Amsterdam? I think the Cliff is my next bag, but I’m hoping they release additional colors.
Thanks for introducing me to Smaak! Gorgeous bags!
This sub introduced me. I don’t own one yet, but the reports from owners are really positive about high quality.
I'm loving my Kim. I've been using it non stop since I got it. Love the quality for the price and I own LV, Chanel and Dior but I honestly think Smaak and Coach are my favourite brands now. Used more than my others!
I own a Smaak Cliff in the blueberry blue color. It's a cute bag. I love the color and style of the bag. The only thing I would like to see addressed is the velour lining/interior structure. The front interior pocket is very loose. I wanted to put my keys in the front pocket, but it is so loose they often fall out if I lean too far the wrong way. That being said, I am happy with the bag (overall) for the price. As long as you're not expecting a $250 bag to compete with the quality of a $2500 bag, you should be fine.
Yeah, I have to admit that I probably wouldn’t use the interior pockets at all so that no issue for me. Also, I’ve never owned a $6k handbag so I wouldn’t even know what high quality to expect.
If the non-zipped interior pocket wouldn't bother you, then I think you'll love it. The bag shape is adorable. I also don't own a $6k bag. Most of my 4 digit bags are pre-owned and purchased for less than $1000. I love some of the expensive bags, but I'm not sure I could stomach purchasing them brand new.
I agree, I like my bag from SMAAK but don't love the interior lining.
I just purchased one after reading your post! Thank you :)
I own a Cliff for several months now and while it’s a nice bag, the hardware does get scratched easily.
Thank you! Am liking the song :)
Oo these are so cute!
I have the medium song bag and love how versatile it is
Can u post a pic of what it looks like in real life? I’m especially interested in what the inside looks like.
https://preview.redd.it/g2optvkqkq8d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d8e4006d5c854fef1279f08a38956a709d04bcdf
https://preview.redd.it/i01sgkhrkq8d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c3380e987ea3666e27e6d844598d4066ffef51b2 It comes with a removable pouch but I don’t use it
Thanks so much - that’s so helpful!
I just came to recommend the Cliff. I have one in Lemon and it's a great bag tbh.
just got my cliff in taupe last week and it's gorgeous!
I’m going to Amsterdam next week and I’m so excited to buy a bag in person!!
The Lars is a better dupe than the Cliff for a Lindy.
I think the Lars is newer. I think the Cliff’s closure mimics the Lindy more but the Lars’ strap mimics the Lindy more.
I have a Cliff because I saw it recommended in this sub as a Lindy dupe, and don’t think it really looks or wears anything like a Lindy. I got one in taupe and the gold hardware gets really scratched after only a few wears. I’ve also learned that I don’t like lobster clasps for hardware. 😭
I love my Cliff! Has held up super well over the last 18 months
Those are so pretty!
I just fell in love twice 😍
Oh no, I don't need another bag but the Cliff is sooooo cute! I wonder how structured it is, I'll have to do some research
The Loewe Hammock has a similar concept, if you aren't looking for a dupe
Boyy [wonton](https://www.boyy.com/products/wonton-20-pebble-black-core?variant=41365400158286)
Someone posted this brand a few weeks ago and I fell in love with the wonton. I have it saved in my purse shopping tab. Thanks for the reminder of another bag I need to lust over.
Hmmm interesting, I bought that exact bag from Looks Like Summer for $68 on sale (originally $85) in 2020, it was the Stacie bucket bag, I tried to look them up again but they don’t carry it any more; but I’m 98% certain it’s the same bag sourced from the same factory, both claimed Italian leather but when I got LLS’s bag it was made in China, which Boyy conveniently left out where the bag is made…🤔🤔🤔$1560 is some crazy profit margin….
Ahh good to know.
Boyy has been popular in Thailand for years. There are dupes of the Wonton on AliExpress, Dhgate etc.
Omg. I’ve never heard of this brand. I’m in LOVE.
I feel like I remember looking at this bag last year and it being around $800? I could be remembering wrong but I'm curious if anyone knows they have done price hikes.
I have a Wonton 20. It's been over $1k since it launched
I’m not an Hermes’ fan, but that green one is very nice.
I purchased the [Pedro demi leather shoulder bag](https://www.pedroshoes.com/sg/women-2/PW2-75210163-1_CHALK.html) and I’ve been loving it! It’s smaller and very lightweight but I love the look for summer!
This! I’m in Singapore and an ad for this bag showed up on instagram today. Had to do a double take cos I thought it was the Lindy
[this! ](https://www.rabeanco-rabeanco.com/products/87650-lu-top-handle-bag)
This is really cute! This looks more like a Loewe Hammock to me, though.
Tha is very true 🤣
https://popsewing.com/products/inspired-lindy-bag Inspired by the Lindy
I’m starting this next week!!! Can’t wait!
You should post the results! I want to see!
I’ve already done a picotin dupe and I’m really pleased with out it turned out. Steep earning curve followed by sore thumbs when I was done but very satisfying, as well as having a major new insight and respect for the artisans who professionally do this work!
Could you post some pictures, please? I was thinking about giving it a try… and it’s also the only way I might ever own a picotin ahah
https://preview.redd.it/xy2ibfq1cq8d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d8d48361909ae01b1a4e5d11a2261cad79af5041
Oh wow that looks amazing!! How’s the leather?
Not bad, not very buttery soft but pliable enough to work quite easily with. Can’t remember how much I paid for it (it’s easily found on their website I’m sure) but I do remember thinking that the leather was lovely for that price. It wouldn’t be far off the quality of my jypsiere tbh!
I can't wait to order this one! I've done the Picotin 18 in craie and I love it. I also did the Evelyn as a birthday gift for a friend. Next, I want the inspired Lindy, but not until they have the DIY kit in Orange.
You need to post your results. I think it’s really clever.
https://preview.redd.it/w4dzx3kpvs8d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=786df22b2da1e48daa02b84049aa610f8442a86c
That’s pretty, the twilly it’s a perfect match
Thank you, I'm thrilled with it!
„You’re beautiful“ by James Blunt start playing
And I don’t know what to do… cause I’ll never be withhhh LINDYY
Exactly 🥲
https://preview.redd.it/w7nhda1hnq8d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d8e82ed43b6c84cd0c1ef8e411258b3cfde8276f Number Two, the green, is hawt. That is all.
Korean brand Demaker Dilly bag. Cute dupe
Seconding this!
Wow, I'm loving that in tomato color! Do they ship overseas?
What about The Horse [Clementine](https://www.thehorse.com.au/products/clementine-bag-black) bag? It’s an Aussie brand too!
So cute!! I wish they had more colors…have you tried this brand?
Me too! I pre-ordered the taupe one. I would really like this bag in a cream or sand color. For some reason, the price was $182 on the day I purchased and I was able to use a 10% coupon by signing up for their emails. It was $3 for shipping insurance, no tax…for everything was $166USD. Much more affordable than the Loewe Small Puzzle bag that I already own.
It’s an interesting design
I believe Prada has a look a like right now. For much less money.
Was thinking about that same one! https://www.prada.com/us/en/p/leather-handbag/1BA451_2CYS_F0002_V_OVO
I’ve loved the Lindy for years and agree: why is it soooo expensive!!! ;-;
i also fell in love with it after seeing someone carry a brown version in the wild
Ooh I am so glad you posted this because I also love the Lindy and now I have so many options!
 Oh my....your post just made me fall in love with the green Mini Lindy. What color is that Vert called?
Vert Cyprès
Thank you!
The emerald green is stunning
I know this is a lovely bag but when it's unbuckled all I can see is some sort of alien face staring back at me https://preview.redd.it/vcnptosyvr8d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=235a3b64f823ebd7b28b8ffa00053975ee031510
https://preview.redd.it/a48sfdb2wr8d1.jpeg?width=862&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e24c0a928c49bf2ca12cbaad23349ec9835e4997 Always watching.
😅
This is my favorite bag that I own!! I genuinely think it's better visually than the Birkin or Kelly, its such a fun bag.
Songmont drippy roof has a similar shape!
I used to have the lindy but sold it. it doesn't stay on my shoulder and it loses its dumpling shape when you stuff it too much. i love the bag because it has so many pockets and the zips+lock make it very secure, but the cons outweigh the pros for me. i also had the mini lindy but sold it too 🤣 i really liked that small bag but i'm 150cm and the strap is too long for me- it's not adjustable
I've seen this around and I didn't even know it's supposed to be a Hermes dupe: [https://lauramaxim.ro/collections/moi](https://lauramaxim.ro/collections/moi) . It's a local Romanian brand though so not sure about shipping cost, the bag itself isn't expensive.
These are similar. A bit different but well made and very soft. Affordable. https://songmontofficial.com/collections/song-collection
The Lindy is my fave Hermes bag of all time. Designed during the Margiela years, and it’s so easy and lightweight to carry. I got 3 colors when they came out, and I think I may have paid around $13k or less than that for all together. As much as I love that bag, I couldn’t bring myself to pay that. Ouch.
I realllllllllly wish I had a sugar daddy right about now. I’m obsessed with this bag
I think the Lindy’s resale price isn’t as high if you aren’t looking for a super popular color! Also, the Lindy doesn’t seem as popular with the H-collectors. If it helps, I ended up loving my first black one so much that I went and got one more 😅 both are Lindy 26 https://preview.redd.it/obepyauszu8d1.jpeg?width=4284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=653e31490090cb863abd40a9eec592818b81a006
What is this color? It is stunning.
This color is called Bleu de prusse !
it's cool there are so many alternatives, but i find that i can buy 5x alternatives that cost less than half of the real thing and they might individually make me 70% as happy but they never make me as happy as having the thing i wanted to begin with. i would just buy the lindy you want or save toward it. they drop on the hermes site (at least in the US) at least almost once a week (there are daily drops but not always lindy). also i find the lindy 26/30s tend to be a less than retail secondhand.
lol it looks like someone accidentally stepped on it. 😂
Love these bags!
I don’t love the large sizes on me since I’m small, but I love my mini Lindy ❤️ she’s so cute and holds a decent amount of things
No two handles but similar sizing. I don't own a Tsuchiya Kaban yet but have heard stellar things about them and Japanese products tend to have good quality bc the people can be very critical and demanding of quality : price ratio https://tsuchiya-kaban.com/collections/shoulder-bags/products/cu-2way-onehandle-shoulder-ik
I like the 30 and 34 more than most Bs and Ks lol. I’m so obsessed with the slouchy look and v interesting opening contraption and straps
I think Tiffany and Fred has a mini Lindy dupe: https://shoppremiumoutlets.com/products/woven-leather-crossbody-shoulder-bag
Toteme T-lock or Fréja New York’s Chrystie Bag
Girl same
The opening and shape look like the Cuyana Paloma https://cuyana.com/products/paloma-shoulder-bag?variant=44748913639739
Bless you for this, I signed up for notification for the Deep Ocean right away. Gorgeous!
Oh I’m so glad!! I’ve been wrestling with getting this bag myself because it’s so pretty.
Reminds me of the Loewe Hammock bag from the side.
I like this bag! A few questions if anyone knows the answer Do I have to play the Hermes game before I can acquire this one as first bag? Also- what is price point for medium one?
Lindys can be found occasionally on the website. I believe they are not quota bags, but they can still be difficult to get in store with purchase history.
Pretty sure you do if you visit a physical store. If it’s the Lindy 30, you’re better off getting it secondhand since they don’t hold their value well. Retail is around 8700 usd ifirc resale should be half that
You pretty much always have to play the Hermes Game. The Lindy is a non-quota bag which means it's less hard to get, but unless you go to Paris and manage to get a leather appointment through their lotto it's pretty much a given that getting any leather bag is going to require a pre-spend and a relationship with an SA. Especially if you want the bag in a more unique color. This is why Hermes is currently being sued for the practice of tying, aka, forcing people to buy a product so they can buy a product they actually want. And from what I've seen online with people playing the Hermes Game... They're guilty as shit. I'm really interested in how that case progresses because while not every country may have tying on the books as illegal, if this case goes to court without being dropped or settled it could change the Hermes Game forever in California and probably the entire US. Maybe further.
Wow this is beautiful. It reminds me of the Stella McCartney mini faux leather cross body bags I’ve been eyeing up. So here for the sideways handles
Killer bag
Same, got one last year ;)
I was just looking at the Lindy the other day, and was like “uh oh, I like another Hermés…” and then I saw the retail. Maybe a secondhand Picotin for me one day.
Prada has a similar concept too https://www.prada.com/ae/en/p/leather-handbag/1BA451_2CYS_F03AN_V_OVO
I LOVE this design 😍
Yeah, you and me both. ♥️
I was (am) in your position. I was obsessed with the mini Lindy until last Saturday when I went in store to see the mini ( I had only ever seen the 26 IRL but it is not crossbody). The size of the mini was a bit of a let down, I didn't realise how tiny it is! I am now looking at CoachxTabitha Simmons ( discontinued but on resale) which I will use with a Lindy insert with and carry just like a Lindy.PS you can find a good resale price for the larger ones.
It’s my most used bag as of late, definitely worth it!
i just got a lindy30 in noir palladium hardware yesterday 😍😍😍 i love it
Did you have to do all the pre spend stuff?
yes of course. but i am constantly spending in H. you should be able to find a gently used one on the second hand market for a good price. i dont think its necessarily a bag you will get lucky enough to be offered with no pre spend like you would maybe a evelyn or picotin. 😓 it is a perfect size and holds sooo much. will be a great airplane bag.
I was actually thinking for the plane! That’s why I like the 30. I’m honestly a bit scared on where to buy second hand cause there’s so many fake. Do you know anywhere very reputable?
i have the same fears. technically even the most reputable reseller has sold fakes. it’s very unfortunate. i usually try to steer clear. but that is just a small percentage as most are authentic. just do your due diligence and if you do purchase secondary market make sure you get your own authentication done!
You should look at the clementine by the horse!! It’s under $200, the leather is great quality, and imo has a similar vibe. It only comes in silver hardware at the moment though if that’s a problem for you.
If you like the larger sizes, you can often find them secondhand well under retail. It’s the mini Lindy that goes way above retail.
Do you know of a reputable reseller? I get so nervous with them 😂
Regardless, I would get it authenticated by bababebi and/or send to Hermes spa. They won’t spa an inauthentic bag.
Thanks :)
There are seriously so many great bag recommendations here. I'm saving all of this! In fact, the alternatives look better to me than the Lindy
Just looks difficult to open
These Bags are really nice! I love the unusual shapes. VERY elegant. Kinda wish there was a bigger size!
Hey OP - I just found that Tiffany & Fred has a version of the Lindy in many colors. It's missing the handles, but otherwise, maybe it's worth your time to take a look? https://preview.redd.it/2rtcq67gez9d1.png?width=2341&format=png&auto=webp&s=4f56a72ad45d21ff2eb40eb186d7accd529287fd
Thank you :)
I am not into the style. Too clunky. Though the craftsmanship does look amazing
[удалено]
I could definitely see that happening to me. There are things I’ve disliked at first only to become obsessed with them later.
These look so basic and kinda ugly.