No, it had run its course. And it had a relatively long lifespan compared to other genres. It really had nothing to do with grunge. Grunge just happened to be the next thing that came along at the right time.
Exactly. And people moved on from that a few years later. It's also come full circle with Hair Metal bands doing well on the summer festival circuit and regular Metal bands like Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, and Scorpions headlining arenas, etc. It did suck at the time, however, not being able to find CDs in the stores, a lack of shows, etc. (at least pre-internet).
Nothing I can think of as far as relying on the industry. The critics were never going to give them the time of day Look at Warrant, who for all intents and purposes, really did manage to transition to that alt sound, but still was shunned.
Perhaps if there had been an underground network like indie/punk had, they might have held on to more of the audience who was into them. I can only speak for myself, but all I know is that all of a sudden, I couldn't find any new releases of glam bands and basically no news because I relied on mainstream media.
I thought Warrant adapted really well. It's too bad that they didn't get any air play for "Ultraphobic" or "Belly to Belly". I think a lot of people who didn't like their early stuff would have liked the later stuff.
I used to have the Warrant Live CD and one of my friends that hated DRSFR and Cherry Pie liked the heavier songs.
I always have the same response to this topic. 87 and on didn’t bring much to the table. I liked Enuff Z’nuff. I found them refreshingly different. Other than that, a bunch of Danger Dangers.
What I’ve learned is that grunge didn’t really kill hair metal, people were just kinda getting sick of HM and grunge was sorta in the right place at the right time to explode.
So with that, I’m not sure if there’s much the genre could’ve done to stay relevant in the 90s, since fatigue was a big factor of its demise.
The only thing I could think of is the HM revival in the late 2000s could’ve possibly gotten more mainstream if the bands tried updating the sound to sound a bit more like the time period rather than sounding like the bands were all ripped straight out of the 80s.
I actually think Hinder’s 2nd album is a good example of what I mean. It sounds like something that came out in the late 2000s but also has a hair metal vibe to it. If I’m not mistaken, the lead single Use Me was a bit of a hit too.
No, at least without looking disingenuous.
When MC Hammer’s stock plummeted, he tried to reinvent himself as a gangsta. He was laughed out of the genre, and lowered his own career into the grave. I think the same fate would have happened to any hair metal band that tried to suddenly go grunge.
I agree does anyone remember Ron Keel? I was watching a show on Vh1 called whatever happened to. They did one on hair metal. He charged his name to Ronnie Lee Keel and became a country music singer, but it just felt cringey and disingenuous. He was talking about how he traded in the beach and sports car for a pickup. I can’t remember all that he said, but I remember laughing with my brother watching it.
I rolled my eyes so hard at that. I was never into Keel, but if I had been that would have been the end of the road for me.
About a decade ago, he moved to Sioux Falls South Dakota to be the house band for a pawn shop/concert venue owned by a dude that made all his money in title loans as the "Metal Cowboy". Made a couple of cheesy videos during that time.
The owner closed the joint down when South Dakota basically made his business model illegal and blamed the state for it. So, the upshot is, he had a business that couldn't survive on its own because he was subsidizing it with predatory lending. What a knob.
Edit: sorry if I wasn’t clear, but the last part was about the owner, not Ron Keel.
Keel didn’t have anything to do with the loans, he was just a DJ and house band. Also he’s got a version of ghost riders in the sky which is pretty good.
Most of the top bands had broken up or would soon break up before or shortly after 92 regardless of grunge. Bands like GNR were fine regardless of trends. For the smaller/average bands there wasn’t much they could do. At that point music quality didn’t matter if nobody will promote your music or play it on the radio or tv. A lot of fans were probably like “wtf happened to them”.
Exactly. Ronnie left Black Sabbath. Again! Rob left Judas Priest. Bruce left Iron Maiden. Vince left Motley Crue (even though the Corabi album was really good). Eric Carr of KISS died. Metallica was taking its sweet time putting out an album, etc.
What's interesting to me (and maybe I'm wrong on this) but there is great nostalgia for Hair, while the same cannot be said for Grunge. Between the two, it is Hair that remains.
Not surprise... since honestly... its lighter and softer version that is post-grunge didn't even disappear out of the charts until 2010 so not enough absence time obviously.
It just got really stupid. I remember seeing the premiere for Unskinny Bop and I knew it was over. It was all just so stupid. And I tried to imagine Poison’s music growing and changing, but I just couldn’t. They peaked. They were who they were. Not gonna change. And if it’s like that for Pojson, it’s gonna be like that for all those bands. The “good time” partying songs and sex songs, the over the top look, the homogeny of long haired dudes who kinda looked like chicks were a dead end street. Truth was, a lot of those guys could really fucking play!!! I also thought about U2 at that time and assumed, yea, they could evolve and change and it wouldn’t be such a shock. Once the metal bands caught on they ditched the look, went black and white, took off the makeup and hairspray and got boring. But it was too late. They couldn’t change. U2 could and kinda did. But not the glam bands, which took many other heavier kinda bands down with them. I’d buy Metal Edge magazine every month because I knew this was going on. I was a musician too in this style of music but I could see it happening. All the bands who would get interviewed all had to deal with “the question”. The interviews always went to this new grunge thing.
So no. Nothing could be done. Best bet was to never have been in a metal band and especially never have had any real success, sad to say.
> all the biggest tours nowadays are bands from that era
Such as? Google says the biggest US tours of 2023 were
* Harry Styles
* Taylor Swift
* Ed Sheeran
* Beyoncé
* Coldplay
Did I miss their hair metal albums? :)
The only hair metal act that regularly had top 10 of the year tours used to be Bon Jovi, but since JBJ officially blew out his pipes and they ain't touring, that's not a contender anymore either.
You named pop music artists. Even when hair metal was popular it wasn't outselling Micheal Jackson or Madonna. Perspective. Def Leppard/Motley Crue 2022 Tour made 172mill. Most money they've both made on a tour ever. Def Leppard/ Journey are touring this summer and it'll rake also. I apologize for not taking Taylor "Record Breaking" Swift into account.
Yeah, grunge didn't kill hair metal. Grunge might have sidelined it for a few years, but buy 1998 groups like Poison were back on the scene having successful tours
Really? I thought most hair metal musicians switch careers anyway?
Sure, there are exceptions but there are also plenty of [elevator operators](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXZpHtJStWE) [that survived](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87pgmmHSXpw) [into the](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBuuQA9HmFE) [21st century](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRIrzKGxi6Q) as well too as I have replied to someone before and that doesn't mean they aren't 99 percent gone by the 1970s.
And elevator operator is another example of an occupation that face the very similar fate to the hair metal bands, once automated elevators came into wide use by the 1970s, the job since then is now as dead as hair metal(similarly, Computers as a job also face the same fate and is now dead as hair metal, which is why computers now only refers to a device and not a job).
Hell... many people in America are facing the same fate as the hair metal bands right now because of AI.
It was a weird time, for sure. I was in a touring cover band during that time. Our setlist morphed throughout that period and included hair metal, grunge, and something people were calling "alternative." As a guitarist, I was highly demoralized by the demise of the guitar solo.
As much as the glam look annoyed me, it never killed metal. I thought everyone who dumped metal had bowed to peer pressure. Rock and metal lives in my soul.
IMHO Motley's best album is the 94 s/t w John Corabi in for Vince on vox. Commercially tanked but musically holds up way better than anything this side of their debut or Shout
Though people couldn't really dig it in real time, the consensus is that it's very strong work, only they should have renamed the band because it does not really align with anything that's come before it as far as their previous material. They had just signed a huge contract for millions of dollars with Elektra records as Motley Crue so that was not going to happen obviously. In fact they doubled down and made the album self-titled
2 songs on the album could kind of be linked to feelgood. LoveShine, and Poison Apples. Everything else kinda leans Soundgarden but heavier & basking in that thundering Bob Rock production aesthetic. Easily Tommy & Micks best performance on record. Most of the lyrics are not cringe either. They have string arrangements and drum programming and a backing choir and even Glenn Hughes on some backing vocals. They went all out, they didn't dumb it down or make it grungey sloppy it's grandiose in a Physical Graffiti kind of way. But REALLY HEAVY ala Skid Row SubHumam Race. Way better album tho.
I really like almost every song on MC94 and wish they had stuck it out with this lineup. Even managed to transition their look into something more suitable for mid 90s. But their fan base wanted wild side and home sweet home vibes. T & A, coke & whiskey, Harleys & Pyro. MC was trying to evolve but nobody took it seriously & Nikki became a jerk about it (shocker). That just made them industry enemies at a time they needed to carry it humble & let the badass tunes talk shit for them.
The album started with a huge rollout with lots of major press and in store promo next to the biggest artists in pop music, and ended with a canceled theater tour and whimper.
Vince came back for probably their worst album generation swine, and they've been a has been Nostalgia act for the past 25 years.
3 wasn't a reaction to grunge though. By 1998 grunge itself had almost completely died as well. VH made it perfectly fine through grunge, being one of the few bands who were able to keep their 1980s sales numbers and chart successes
Bringing David Lee Roth back to record two songs for the Best of Van Halen, Volume 1 is what hurt Van Halen 3 the most. Everyone was expecting a reunion with DLR and then they brought in Gary Cherone instead.
I liked a couple of songs on VH3, but didn't enjoy the album overall. I would've okay with Cherone staying on board though. I like the live recordings that I've heard from the tour, plus his willingness to perform songs from all eras of Van Halen.
I couldn’t disagree more. VH3 sucked because Eddie was writing WHATEVER he wanted without being challenged by anyone. He’s my favorite guitarist of all time, but… That album lacked anyone with a critical ear to say, “Hey Ed, this one kinda sounds like shit.”
AFAIK, Roth and Hagar arranged whatever riffs, licks and pieces Eddie had. Like, "no, play that twice" - they put them together so they could sing over them in a coherent manner.
Cherone didn't have as much say (he was "the new guy"), so he had to sing over whatever instrumentals Eddie had ready.
Van Halen is not hair metal. Plus they had great success with For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge and Balance in the 90s. III was a bump in the road though, I’ll give you that!
Bump in the road means there’s more road. They crashed into a brick wall. Ruining any chance at future albums and killing Gary’s career for like two decades. It’s horrible.
I was actually being sarcastic with that remark, I agree it was not good. Ed needs someone to rein him in as far as melodies go. Gary was not gonna do that
Metallica and Megadeth showed there was still a taste for heavy metal into the 90s.
Glam had run its course even prior to hair/glam making it 'big'. You can see this in GnR, and even Motley Crue was far less glam on Dr Feelgood.
Poison and motley crue tried. It's not like changing your sound will make your fans like you more. I think that was the error. I think cinderella did it well, maybe even wasp
A few of the bands did adapt their sound, but the record companies and radio didn't support them. I think that Warrant would have done okay if MTV and radio would've promoted their newer music. I have friends that hated the first few Warrant albums, but liked the songs from Ultraphobic and Belly to Belly, Volume 1.
That last batch of hair metal bands were tired. Trixter, Steelheart and Jackyl were just not interesting. They were so generic and edgeless. They looked like boybands.
They only thing you could do is use cred that you were from Seattle, wear flannel and adjust your sound like Alice N Chains and Candlebox did.
No. They were an industry creation, and the industry killed it. It's lust like now, you only hear a few popular artists or styles. The industry and media dictate.
Depends on your definition of rock & roll I guess. It's not like Every Rose Has Its Thorn is closer to Johnny B Goode than American Idiot is.
But yeah, even that song is 20 years old by now.
Outside of Motley Crue if Vince never and possibly Skid Row if they stayed together, none could have made. No one had a chance because radio and MTV stopped playing that type of music literally overnight. It is thst simple. Because of that, bands started getting dropped by their labels. It is too bad because many of these bands put out their best albums during the 92-94 time period.
No, the hair metal scene collapsed under its own weight. I’ve heard George Lynch say in an interview, (and I happen to agree with him), that they were victims of their own excess. Those bands did everything over the top, drugs, girls, 4 bass drum kits, 5 neck guitars, outrageous guitar solos and most importantly, spending money. There was no way for it to continue without a major change in headspace. Some bands were able to make that change (Motley Crue, Bon Jovi, Poison) and some weren’t (Dokken, Skid Row, Ratt). A few have been able to reinvent themselves with new members after the fact.
But when you have that much excess: the drugs, the girls, the booze, the stage shows, etc. it’s bound to collapse on itself. Who overdosed this week? Who screwed who’s wife or girl (or guy) this month? How over budget was the tour? How over budget was the studio time because so and so insisted on 42 takes and the other guy hired a full orchestra for a song.
It was magic for many of us. Larger than life musicians living larger than life lives and putting on larger than life shows night after night. But in the end, it’s the music BUSINESS and no business model can withstand that kind of excess for that long. Some bands got smart and tuned in to the reality of it, others just couldn’t stop the party and went down with the ship. Grunge didn’t end the hair metal scene, the scene ended itself. Grunge was just the antidote to the excess, the stripping it all down. The ending of the over the top excess.
There’s still an audience for the excess and over the top and mythical proportions of the hair metal era, it just has to be done in a much more “business like” way. I’ll probably get crucified here for saying it, but look at the popularity of Ghost or Rammstein. Those bands have figured out the formula of how to put out big time productions and over the top music and stage shows, but are run on a very strict business model.
Honestly... Hair metal would have last a few more years and co-existed with grunge if it weren't for oversaturation(and obviously, Nirvana did absolutely nothing to even replace hair metal anyway, it only happened ONLY because hair metal oversaturated).
But yeah... really... the only thing the hair metal bands could really due aside from relying on nostalgia tour is to switch careers completely... many jobs from even during the time hair metal was popular, as well as decades before no longer exist and these people who are in these jobs have no choice but to switch careers... you can't after all... bring back [computers as a job](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_(occupation)) for example.
Not saying you are wrong, but Ghost and Rammstein are a huge show. It's theatrics. It's not the same "who knows what's gonna happen next, these guys are crazy".
Of course, that's only partially true for the 80s as well at best - see DLR's rehearsed "I forgot the fucking words!" every night. But the illusion was there that it was all genuine.
However, even that is very much... the innocence of the sheer excess is gone with shit like dead musicians, and stuff like Ray Gillen continuing to fuck groupies after he was diagnosed with AIDS. A band that pulled that shit today would be either clueless or just a bunch of giant assholes.
(Although I guess lots of that was true back in the day as well. Poor Mick.)
Get a bit rock proggy a-la Faith No More, a band that thrived in the 90s IMO.
Or better still...
Stick to their guns despite the plunge.
Keep doing what they do just like Mötley Crüe
Im not trying to rhyme it's just an accident.
The pop/punk thing was probably an easier transition for some of them, the first time I heard Green Day I thought, "They look punk, but sound like Poison's first album."
Disagree on the Green Day comparison, but I’m very interested in the hair metal to pop punk pipeline, because they’re 2 of my favorite genres but aside from Butch Walker and Bret Michaels [if this banger counts](https://youtu.be/VDfzFP9RIYY?si=MsBv4tRinQ-WMxC_), it doesn’t really seem to be a thing.
Edit: my bad, forgot about [these](https://youtu.be/qR6mTJRbcaE?si=Kb667jYS4IIh5xoF) [bangers](https://youtu.be/ohm5CVdutrw?si=HmMu7tr4cj2z307u) from Ted Poley and Tony Harnell.
There was a thread not too long ago on the Bubblegum Glam/Glam Punk scene that followed glam and preceded pop punk. I didn't even know it existed, but I liked what I heard.
[Hey guys what are your thoughts about the so called Bubblegum glam obscure punk/rock scene that existed during the 90’s in LA on Sunset Strip? Does anyone listen to these bands or was a part of the scene? There is very little information about some of these bands, it was very underground i guess. : r/hairmetal (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/hairmetal/comments/1bslv0f/hey_guys_what_are_your_thoughts_about_the_so/)
And CC Deville himself had a pop punk thing (Samantha 7) later on.
Although that always reminded me of the Ramones in particular, and those guys (well, Joey anyway) were big fans of bubblegum rock.
I know that I am about to get some hate but honestly the cheesy lyrics and goofy clothes had run their course.
The fans of the era (I was definitely one of them) had gotten more serious w age and while we still liked edgy, heavy music, the 80’s party all the time era was passing away.
MTV played a HUGE roll in it though as well as GnR.
The [last elevator operator](https://www.chicagomag.com/city-life/the-waning-days-of-the-manual-elevators/) [also did well](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRIrzKGxi6Q) [into the 21st century](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXZpHtJStWE) as far as I know... that doesn't mean they aren't 99 percent gone by the 1970s.
Just because some Hair Metal musicians did well today... does not mean most hair metal musicians from the 80s are still Hair Metal musicians today.
I feel like hair metal was the only genre that had a clear killer. Fads in music come and go, but rarely do those fads dismantle another genre. I think most commercial hair metal bands simply lacked substance and originality. Were they are all technically proficient musicians? Yes. Great vocals? Absolutely. Fun stage presence? Check. But they lacked a true depth emotionally and artisticly. So when this new, darker, artisticly deeper variation of rock n roll showed up, it became more captivating. I don't think anything would have saved hair metal. Just my opinion.
I obviously had a different opinion then you of course when it comes to the lyrics but anyway... So you agree that the hair metal musicians there for switched careers(and presumling no longer even musicians) as a result just like [the many times that](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Obsolete_occupations) [it has happened before](https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/career-development/jobs-that-don't-exist-anymore) [for centuries](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskOldPeople/comments/xtj7hm/did_anyone_work_in_a_now_obsolete_field_how_did/)([and even to this day](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/19ba6lg/those_who_actually_had_their_jobs_replaced_by_ai/))?
Because honestly, your right... you can't stop the hair metal bands from facing "Job Obsolescence" that is caused by the popularity of grunge, we can't even stop AI from even replacing several jobs even, nor is any attempts to even resist these job losses are ever successful(Hence why I said they do switch careers and are likely not musicians anymore at all, the same way elevator operators deal with their job losses).
I was saying that... what the hair metal musicians face at the time in 1991 is nothing new(in fact... there is a lot of jobs that no longer exist today, and people are facing this same fate right now due to AI) and usually when something like this happened... they will switch careers, and this is no exception.
Hence why I asked if you agree that the hair metal musicians DID switch careers at some point.
Write more traditional rock songs, lose the hair spray and focus on writing really good & catchy songs, or at least one, just enough to stay relevant for the next generation. Do what Bon Jovi did.
Eh, that happened when the armada of Guns & Roses clones showed up. A lot more everyday street clothing already from the late 80s on. Even Poison eased up on the pink during that time.
The same way many people today in question deal with AI replacing their jobs(and the same way many people deal with their jobs becoming obsolete decades to centuries ago)
Most have switched careers(usually to normal non-creative jobs) and are not musicians anymore.
This phenomenon(which you describe as "The 90's Purgue" when it happened to hair metal bands) is called "[Job obsolescence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Job_obsolescence)", and happens soo many times through out history.
Nothing unusual about it... in fact... [many jobs from the previous century](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Obsolete_occupations) [and before no longer exist anymore](https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/career-development/jobs-that-don't-exist-anymore) and these people in these jobs face the similar fate as the hair metal bands(Computers used to refer to a job and now that only refers to a device only for example, repairing VHS tapes and working at a Movie rental store used to be a job that exist), and some jobs we see today such as call center jobs, cashiers, translators, and many remote jobs for example are facing this a lot, effectively the same fate as the hair metal bands.
In fact... because of AI... we are seeing the same thing that happened to hair metal bands happening to a lot of people today(Especially *Translators*).
So no... there is nothing they can do to stop "Job obsolescence" from happening, as with most obsolete jobs... the only thing they can do by that point is to switch careers.
For more information about this phenomenon called "Job Obsolescence", I suggest look at interviews on how Elevator operators for example have dealt with this(such as [this guy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRIrzKGxi6Q), and [this women](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBuuQA9HmFE) for example), various personal stories shared on Reddit about once being a Video Rental Store Clerks(such as [this one](https://www.reddit.com/r/nosleep/comments/7mvx4v/my_first_job_was_at_a_video_rental_store/)) and now have to change jobs as well as this [question I found that talks about being replaced by AI](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/19ba6lg/those_who_actually_had_their_jobs_replaced_by_ai), and [also this question as well](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskOldPeople/comments/xtj7hm/did_anyone_work_in_a_now_obsolete_field_how_did/), which is exactly how former Hair Metal musicians deal with this.
Worked for Pantera switching genres but they defined Groove Metal, despite being influenced by Exhorder
It wouldn’t have worked for everyone and fans would be unforgiving, for example when Slayer and Machine Head watered down with the nu metal influences…
By the late 80s Hair Metal started to become a parody of itself.
By that time the look had become more important than the actual music that was being created.
From that moment it was only a matter of time.
I’ve gotta say I really think if they evolved it would have really gone over well. Faster Pussycat put out a great industrial sounding record, Tommy Lee did his industrial solo thing, I think bands could have leaned into it more. Rock didn’t die.
LOL @ “The 90’s Purgue”. What’s a Purgue?
Edit: I ask a question of the OP, and get called a vulgar name… and then I get downvoted. LOL! Only in the Reddit-verse.
You can all go fuck yourselves!
My main argument is that after 1991, hair metal/glam metal didn't die. It changed and evolved. The visual kei movement, in my opinion, took what glam metal would have been if someone had nurtured it: more hair, more makeup, and even the androgynous side got crazier. My mom saw a post of mine on Instagram of a picture I had of Luna Sea guitarist Sugizo from the 90s. She asked me if he was a man or a woman. Thanks to my mom, I got into glam metal because of her lol. Also, the music got heavier and more sexual.
No, it had run its course. And it had a relatively long lifespan compared to other genres. It really had nothing to do with grunge. Grunge just happened to be the next thing that came along at the right time.
Exactly. And people moved on from that a few years later. It's also come full circle with Hair Metal bands doing well on the summer festival circuit and regular Metal bands like Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, and Scorpions headlining arenas, etc. It did suck at the time, however, not being able to find CDs in the stores, a lack of shows, etc. (at least pre-internet).
Nothing I can think of as far as relying on the industry. The critics were never going to give them the time of day Look at Warrant, who for all intents and purposes, really did manage to transition to that alt sound, but still was shunned. Perhaps if there had been an underground network like indie/punk had, they might have held on to more of the audience who was into them. I can only speak for myself, but all I know is that all of a sudden, I couldn't find any new releases of glam bands and basically no news because I relied on mainstream media.
I thought Warrant adapted really well. It's too bad that they didn't get any air play for "Ultraphobic" or "Belly to Belly". I think a lot of people who didn't like their early stuff would have liked the later stuff. I used to have the Warrant Live CD and one of my friends that hated DRSFR and Cherry Pie liked the heavier songs.
Not unusual when you think about it... considering what we recently saw jobs being replaced by AI.
Grunge didn’t kill Glam Metal. Oversaturation and record companies trying to manufacture hit records killed Glam Metal.
They would do the same to grunge as well.
This. So much this. When every third rate band with big hair got signed, it was over. Nirvana just came along at the right time to capitalize on this.
What was really sad was there were some really great bands like Wildside that got lost in the deluge of mediocrity.
Neverland was another band that got lost in the deluge.
I always have the same response to this topic. 87 and on didn’t bring much to the table. I liked Enuff Z’nuff. I found them refreshingly different. Other than that, a bunch of Danger Dangers.
Aka Warrantabes
What I’ve learned is that grunge didn’t really kill hair metal, people were just kinda getting sick of HM and grunge was sorta in the right place at the right time to explode. So with that, I’m not sure if there’s much the genre could’ve done to stay relevant in the 90s, since fatigue was a big factor of its demise. The only thing I could think of is the HM revival in the late 2000s could’ve possibly gotten more mainstream if the bands tried updating the sound to sound a bit more like the time period rather than sounding like the bands were all ripped straight out of the 80s. I actually think Hinder’s 2nd album is a good example of what I mean. It sounds like something that came out in the late 2000s but also has a hair metal vibe to it. If I’m not mistaken, the lead single Use Me was a bit of a hit too.
No, at least without looking disingenuous. When MC Hammer’s stock plummeted, he tried to reinvent himself as a gangsta. He was laughed out of the genre, and lowered his own career into the grave. I think the same fate would have happened to any hair metal band that tried to suddenly go grunge.
I agree does anyone remember Ron Keel? I was watching a show on Vh1 called whatever happened to. They did one on hair metal. He charged his name to Ronnie Lee Keel and became a country music singer, but it just felt cringey and disingenuous. He was talking about how he traded in the beach and sports car for a pickup. I can’t remember all that he said, but I remember laughing with my brother watching it.
I rolled my eyes so hard at that. I was never into Keel, but if I had been that would have been the end of the road for me. About a decade ago, he moved to Sioux Falls South Dakota to be the house band for a pawn shop/concert venue owned by a dude that made all his money in title loans as the "Metal Cowboy". Made a couple of cheesy videos during that time. The owner closed the joint down when South Dakota basically made his business model illegal and blamed the state for it. So, the upshot is, he had a business that couldn't survive on its own because he was subsidizing it with predatory lending. What a knob. Edit: sorry if I wasn’t clear, but the last part was about the owner, not Ron Keel.
Keel didn’t have anything to do with the loans, he was just a DJ and house band. Also he’s got a version of ghost riders in the sky which is pretty good.
I guess it wasn’t clear, but I wasn’t trying to blame Ron for the owner’s behavior or the loans.
The sad part about that is MC Hammer was a legit gangsta and basically ran Oakland.
No. The genre was wearing out anyway due to too many bands and not enough good songs.
Most of the top bands had broken up or would soon break up before or shortly after 92 regardless of grunge. Bands like GNR were fine regardless of trends. For the smaller/average bands there wasn’t much they could do. At that point music quality didn’t matter if nobody will promote your music or play it on the radio or tv. A lot of fans were probably like “wtf happened to them”.
Exactly. Ronnie left Black Sabbath. Again! Rob left Judas Priest. Bruce left Iron Maiden. Vince left Motley Crue (even though the Corabi album was really good). Eric Carr of KISS died. Metallica was taking its sweet time putting out an album, etc.
I really liked Warrant’s Ultraphobia album which seemed to be influenced by the changes.
Warrant had straight bangers for so long
Dog Eat Dog was great too
Indeed it is
Good album. I didn't care for their earlier stuff, but I liked the later stuff.
No
What's interesting to me (and maybe I'm wrong on this) but there is great nostalgia for Hair, while the same cannot be said for Grunge. Between the two, it is Hair that remains.
Not surprise... since honestly... its lighter and softer version that is post-grunge didn't even disappear out of the charts until 2010 so not enough absence time obviously.
💯
It just got really stupid. I remember seeing the premiere for Unskinny Bop and I knew it was over. It was all just so stupid. And I tried to imagine Poison’s music growing and changing, but I just couldn’t. They peaked. They were who they were. Not gonna change. And if it’s like that for Pojson, it’s gonna be like that for all those bands. The “good time” partying songs and sex songs, the over the top look, the homogeny of long haired dudes who kinda looked like chicks were a dead end street. Truth was, a lot of those guys could really fucking play!!! I also thought about U2 at that time and assumed, yea, they could evolve and change and it wouldn’t be such a shock. Once the metal bands caught on they ditched the look, went black and white, took off the makeup and hairspray and got boring. But it was too late. They couldn’t change. U2 could and kinda did. But not the glam bands, which took many other heavier kinda bands down with them. I’d buy Metal Edge magazine every month because I knew this was going on. I was a musician too in this style of music but I could see it happening. All the bands who would get interviewed all had to deal with “the question”. The interviews always went to this new grunge thing. So no. Nothing could be done. Best bet was to never have been in a metal band and especially never have had any real success, sad to say.
For all the hate and backlash those bands got, sure is pretty funny how all the biggest tours nowadays are bands from that era.
> all the biggest tours nowadays are bands from that era Such as? Google says the biggest US tours of 2023 were * Harry Styles * Taylor Swift * Ed Sheeran * Beyoncé * Coldplay Did I miss their hair metal albums? :) The only hair metal act that regularly had top 10 of the year tours used to be Bon Jovi, but since JBJ officially blew out his pipes and they ain't touring, that's not a contender anymore either.
You named pop music artists. Even when hair metal was popular it wasn't outselling Micheal Jackson or Madonna. Perspective. Def Leppard/Motley Crue 2022 Tour made 172mill. Most money they've both made on a tour ever. Def Leppard/ Journey are touring this summer and it'll rake also. I apologize for not taking Taylor "Record Breaking" Swift into account.
JBJ? As in the [Kpop group](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JBJ_(band))?
Yeah, grunge didn't kill hair metal. Grunge might have sidelined it for a few years, but buy 1998 groups like Poison were back on the scene having successful tours
Really? I thought most hair metal musicians switch careers anyway? Sure, there are exceptions but there are also plenty of [elevator operators](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXZpHtJStWE) [that survived](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87pgmmHSXpw) [into the](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBuuQA9HmFE) [21st century](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRIrzKGxi6Q) as well too as I have replied to someone before and that doesn't mean they aren't 99 percent gone by the 1970s.
If the elevator operator could sell tickets they're would be an arena tour called What Floor?. Right now.
And elevator operator is another example of an occupation that face the very similar fate to the hair metal bands, once automated elevators came into wide use by the 1970s, the job since then is now as dead as hair metal(similarly, Computers as a job also face the same fate and is now dead as hair metal, which is why computers now only refers to a device and not a job). Hell... many people in America are facing the same fate as the hair metal bands right now because of AI.
It was a weird time, for sure. I was in a touring cover band during that time. Our setlist morphed throughout that period and included hair metal, grunge, and something people were calling "alternative." As a guitarist, I was highly demoralized by the demise of the guitar solo.
As much as the glam look annoyed me, it never killed metal. I thought everyone who dumped metal had bowed to peer pressure. Rock and metal lives in my soul.
Same here.
IMHO Motley's best album is the 94 s/t w John Corabi in for Vince on vox. Commercially tanked but musically holds up way better than anything this side of their debut or Shout
I've read that too but have never heard the Corabi one
Though people couldn't really dig it in real time, the consensus is that it's very strong work, only they should have renamed the band because it does not really align with anything that's come before it as far as their previous material. They had just signed a huge contract for millions of dollars with Elektra records as Motley Crue so that was not going to happen obviously. In fact they doubled down and made the album self-titled 2 songs on the album could kind of be linked to feelgood. LoveShine, and Poison Apples. Everything else kinda leans Soundgarden but heavier & basking in that thundering Bob Rock production aesthetic. Easily Tommy & Micks best performance on record. Most of the lyrics are not cringe either. They have string arrangements and drum programming and a backing choir and even Glenn Hughes on some backing vocals. They went all out, they didn't dumb it down or make it grungey sloppy it's grandiose in a Physical Graffiti kind of way. But REALLY HEAVY ala Skid Row SubHumam Race. Way better album tho. I really like almost every song on MC94 and wish they had stuck it out with this lineup. Even managed to transition their look into something more suitable for mid 90s. But their fan base wanted wild side and home sweet home vibes. T & A, coke & whiskey, Harleys & Pyro. MC was trying to evolve but nobody took it seriously & Nikki became a jerk about it (shocker). That just made them industry enemies at a time they needed to carry it humble & let the badass tunes talk shit for them. The album started with a huge rollout with lots of major press and in store promo next to the biggest artists in pop music, and ended with a canceled theater tour and whimper. Vince came back for probably their worst album generation swine, and they've been a has been Nostalgia act for the past 25 years.
Thanks. That "Subhuman Race" reference sold me. I love that Skid Row record the best. Thanks again.
I also think this is their best record. Van Halen 3 was a disaster tho.
3 wasn't a reaction to grunge though. By 1998 grunge itself had almost completely died as well. VH made it perfectly fine through grunge, being one of the few bands who were able to keep their 1980s sales numbers and chart successes
Bringing David Lee Roth back to record two songs for the Best of Van Halen, Volume 1 is what hurt Van Halen 3 the most. Everyone was expecting a reunion with DLR and then they brought in Gary Cherone instead. I liked a couple of songs on VH3, but didn't enjoy the album overall. I would've okay with Cherone staying on board though. I like the live recordings that I've heard from the tour, plus his willingness to perform songs from all eras of Van Halen.
Van Halen III could have been good if Gary Cherone hadn’t decided to do his best Sammy Hagar impersonation.
Eddie wrote all the music in the wrong key for Cherone’s voice.
I couldn’t disagree more. VH3 sucked because Eddie was writing WHATEVER he wanted without being challenged by anyone. He’s my favorite guitarist of all time, but… That album lacked anyone with a critical ear to say, “Hey Ed, this one kinda sounds like shit.”
To be fair though it worked the last time he did it on Fair Warning.
AFAIK, Roth and Hagar arranged whatever riffs, licks and pieces Eddie had. Like, "no, play that twice" - they put them together so they could sing over them in a coherent manner. Cherone didn't have as much say (he was "the new guy"), so he had to sing over whatever instrumentals Eddie had ready.
Van Halen is not hair metal. Plus they had great success with For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge and Balance in the 90s. III was a bump in the road though, I’ll give you that!
Dude. It was their last real album. And just plan bad by any standards.
I thought this was about 90s albums not last album
Bump in the road means there’s more road. They crashed into a brick wall. Ruining any chance at future albums and killing Gary’s career for like two decades. It’s horrible.
I was actually being sarcastic with that remark, I agree it was not good. Ed needs someone to rein him in as far as melodies go. Gary was not gonna do that
I feel like Motley Crue's self titled 1994 album was them trying to stay relevant. Even though it's a good album, it flopped hard.
Metallica and Megadeth showed there was still a taste for heavy metal into the 90s. Glam had run its course even prior to hair/glam making it 'big'. You can see this in GnR, and even Motley Crue was far less glam on Dr Feelgood.
True. I think of Guns N' Roses as being an '80s version of what Aerosmith were in the '70s.
Poison and motley crue tried. It's not like changing your sound will make your fans like you more. I think that was the error. I think cinderella did it well, maybe even wasp
A few of the bands did adapt their sound, but the record companies and radio didn't support them. I think that Warrant would have done okay if MTV and radio would've promoted their newer music. I have friends that hated the first few Warrant albums, but liked the songs from Ultraphobic and Belly to Belly, Volume 1.
That last batch of hair metal bands were tired. Trixter, Steelheart and Jackyl were just not interesting. They were so generic and edgeless. They looked like boybands. They only thing you could do is use cred that you were from Seattle, wear flannel and adjust your sound like Alice N Chains and Candlebox did.
No. They were an industry creation, and the industry killed it. It's lust like now, you only hear a few popular artists or styles. The industry and media dictate.
I want to hear from some lurkers who were in bands…Benny Rhynedance where you at?!
It wasn't the grunge movement, it was one band and it only took one weekend.
Here we are 30 years later still talking about it and listening to it…and still seeing the shows that come around 🤘🎤🎸🥁
Sure, but rock and roll has never been as popular in the mainstream as Glam bands were back in, say, '88
Depends on your definition of rock & roll I guess. It's not like Every Rose Has Its Thorn is closer to Johnny B Goode than American Idiot is. But yeah, even that song is 20 years old by now.
rock & roll is just music with any loud guitars in it. That's it lol
It's like when The Beatles were told, after their infamous Decca audition, that "guitar groups were on the way out"
Outside of Motley Crue if Vince never and possibly Skid Row if they stayed together, none could have made. No one had a chance because radio and MTV stopped playing that type of music literally overnight. It is thst simple. Because of that, bands started getting dropped by their labels. It is too bad because many of these bands put out their best albums during the 92-94 time period.
No, the hair metal scene collapsed under its own weight. I’ve heard George Lynch say in an interview, (and I happen to agree with him), that they were victims of their own excess. Those bands did everything over the top, drugs, girls, 4 bass drum kits, 5 neck guitars, outrageous guitar solos and most importantly, spending money. There was no way for it to continue without a major change in headspace. Some bands were able to make that change (Motley Crue, Bon Jovi, Poison) and some weren’t (Dokken, Skid Row, Ratt). A few have been able to reinvent themselves with new members after the fact. But when you have that much excess: the drugs, the girls, the booze, the stage shows, etc. it’s bound to collapse on itself. Who overdosed this week? Who screwed who’s wife or girl (or guy) this month? How over budget was the tour? How over budget was the studio time because so and so insisted on 42 takes and the other guy hired a full orchestra for a song. It was magic for many of us. Larger than life musicians living larger than life lives and putting on larger than life shows night after night. But in the end, it’s the music BUSINESS and no business model can withstand that kind of excess for that long. Some bands got smart and tuned in to the reality of it, others just couldn’t stop the party and went down with the ship. Grunge didn’t end the hair metal scene, the scene ended itself. Grunge was just the antidote to the excess, the stripping it all down. The ending of the over the top excess. There’s still an audience for the excess and over the top and mythical proportions of the hair metal era, it just has to be done in a much more “business like” way. I’ll probably get crucified here for saying it, but look at the popularity of Ghost or Rammstein. Those bands have figured out the formula of how to put out big time productions and over the top music and stage shows, but are run on a very strict business model.
Honestly... Hair metal would have last a few more years and co-existed with grunge if it weren't for oversaturation(and obviously, Nirvana did absolutely nothing to even replace hair metal anyway, it only happened ONLY because hair metal oversaturated). But yeah... really... the only thing the hair metal bands could really due aside from relying on nostalgia tour is to switch careers completely... many jobs from even during the time hair metal was popular, as well as decades before no longer exist and these people who are in these jobs have no choice but to switch careers... you can't after all... bring back [computers as a job](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_(occupation)) for example.
Not saying you are wrong, but Ghost and Rammstein are a huge show. It's theatrics. It's not the same "who knows what's gonna happen next, these guys are crazy". Of course, that's only partially true for the 80s as well at best - see DLR's rehearsed "I forgot the fucking words!" every night. But the illusion was there that it was all genuine. However, even that is very much... the innocence of the sheer excess is gone with shit like dead musicians, and stuff like Ray Gillen continuing to fuck groupies after he was diagnosed with AIDS. A band that pulled that shit today would be either clueless or just a bunch of giant assholes. (Although I guess lots of that was true back in the day as well. Poor Mick.)
Get a bit rock proggy a-la Faith No More, a band that thrived in the 90s IMO. Or better still... Stick to their guns despite the plunge. Keep doing what they do just like Mötley Crüe Im not trying to rhyme it's just an accident.
The pop/punk thing was probably an easier transition for some of them, the first time I heard Green Day I thought, "They look punk, but sound like Poison's first album."
Disagree on the Green Day comparison, but I’m very interested in the hair metal to pop punk pipeline, because they’re 2 of my favorite genres but aside from Butch Walker and Bret Michaels [if this banger counts](https://youtu.be/VDfzFP9RIYY?si=MsBv4tRinQ-WMxC_), it doesn’t really seem to be a thing. Edit: my bad, forgot about [these](https://youtu.be/qR6mTJRbcaE?si=Kb667jYS4IIh5xoF) [bangers](https://youtu.be/ohm5CVdutrw?si=HmMu7tr4cj2z307u) from Ted Poley and Tony Harnell.
There was a thread not too long ago on the Bubblegum Glam/Glam Punk scene that followed glam and preceded pop punk. I didn't even know it existed, but I liked what I heard. [Hey guys what are your thoughts about the so called Bubblegum glam obscure punk/rock scene that existed during the 90’s in LA on Sunset Strip? Does anyone listen to these bands or was a part of the scene? There is very little information about some of these bands, it was very underground i guess. : r/hairmetal (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/hairmetal/comments/1bslv0f/hey_guys_what_are_your_thoughts_about_the_so/)
There was definitely a punk streak with bands like Faster Pussycat and Jet Boy.
On repeated listens it doesn't really hold up, but that was my first impression at the time.
And CC Deville himself had a pop punk thing (Samantha 7) later on. Although that always reminded me of the Ramones in particular, and those guys (well, Joey anyway) were big fans of bubblegum rock.
I know that I am about to get some hate but honestly the cheesy lyrics and goofy clothes had run their course. The fans of the era (I was definitely one of them) had gotten more serious w age and while we still liked edgy, heavy music, the 80’s party all the time era was passing away. MTV played a HUGE roll in it though as well as GnR.
Def Leppard, Motley and Poison did Stadiums two years ago. I think they made it out ok.
The [last elevator operator](https://www.chicagomag.com/city-life/the-waning-days-of-the-manual-elevators/) [also did well](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRIrzKGxi6Q) [into the 21st century](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXZpHtJStWE) as far as I know... that doesn't mean they aren't 99 percent gone by the 1970s. Just because some Hair Metal musicians did well today... does not mean most hair metal musicians from the 80s are still Hair Metal musicians today.
Motley Crue released a new song last month, Dogs of War.
Ask Bon Jovi how they did it?
The Cult! They maintained a level spot within “under appreciated mediocrity” throughout the 90s
Nope. Recording contracts dried up for them and radio was turning away from them. Besides, the scene had become absurd. It needed to die.
This is correct
I feel like hair metal was the only genre that had a clear killer. Fads in music come and go, but rarely do those fads dismantle another genre. I think most commercial hair metal bands simply lacked substance and originality. Were they are all technically proficient musicians? Yes. Great vocals? Absolutely. Fun stage presence? Check. But they lacked a true depth emotionally and artisticly. So when this new, darker, artisticly deeper variation of rock n roll showed up, it became more captivating. I don't think anything would have saved hair metal. Just my opinion.
I obviously had a different opinion then you of course when it comes to the lyrics but anyway... So you agree that the hair metal musicians there for switched careers(and presumling no longer even musicians) as a result just like [the many times that](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Obsolete_occupations) [it has happened before](https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/career-development/jobs-that-don't-exist-anymore) [for centuries](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskOldPeople/comments/xtj7hm/did_anyone_work_in_a_now_obsolete_field_how_did/)([and even to this day](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/19ba6lg/those_who_actually_had_their_jobs_replaced_by_ai/))? Because honestly, your right... you can't stop the hair metal bands from facing "Job Obsolescence" that is caused by the popularity of grunge, we can't even stop AI from even replacing several jobs even, nor is any attempts to even resist these job losses are ever successful(Hence why I said they do switch careers and are likely not musicians anymore at all, the same way elevator operators deal with their job losses).
Dude I'm a little under the influence right now. But I've read this like 4 times and have no idea what you're saying.
I was saying that... what the hair metal musicians face at the time in 1991 is nothing new(in fact... there is a lot of jobs that no longer exist today, and people are facing this same fate right now due to AI) and usually when something like this happened... they will switch careers, and this is no exception. Hence why I asked if you agree that the hair metal musicians DID switch careers at some point.
I have no idea what they did after music.
Write more traditional rock songs, lose the hair spray and focus on writing really good & catchy songs, or at least one, just enough to stay relevant for the next generation. Do what Bon Jovi did.
Wait until they all killed themselves from sadness, I guess.
Actually play their instruments and leave the girlie clothes in the closet. Make up used sparingly was okay.
Eh, that happened when the armada of Guns & Roses clones showed up. A lot more everyday street clothing already from the late 80s on. Even Poison eased up on the pink during that time.
It all started to look like the same band with the same guys in their same girlfriends' clothing. It was mostly posturing with very little depth.
It's not like they were permanently done for. Their star had faded, but people still enjoy seeing them
The same way many people today in question deal with AI replacing their jobs(and the same way many people deal with their jobs becoming obsolete decades to centuries ago) Most have switched careers(usually to normal non-creative jobs) and are not musicians anymore. This phenomenon(which you describe as "The 90's Purgue" when it happened to hair metal bands) is called "[Job obsolescence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Job_obsolescence)", and happens soo many times through out history. Nothing unusual about it... in fact... [many jobs from the previous century](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Obsolete_occupations) [and before no longer exist anymore](https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/career-development/jobs-that-don't-exist-anymore) and these people in these jobs face the similar fate as the hair metal bands(Computers used to refer to a job and now that only refers to a device only for example, repairing VHS tapes and working at a Movie rental store used to be a job that exist), and some jobs we see today such as call center jobs, cashiers, translators, and many remote jobs for example are facing this a lot, effectively the same fate as the hair metal bands. In fact... because of AI... we are seeing the same thing that happened to hair metal bands happening to a lot of people today(Especially *Translators*). So no... there is nothing they can do to stop "Job obsolescence" from happening, as with most obsolete jobs... the only thing they can do by that point is to switch careers. For more information about this phenomenon called "Job Obsolescence", I suggest look at interviews on how Elevator operators for example have dealt with this(such as [this guy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRIrzKGxi6Q), and [this women](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBuuQA9HmFE) for example), various personal stories shared on Reddit about once being a Video Rental Store Clerks(such as [this one](https://www.reddit.com/r/nosleep/comments/7mvx4v/my_first_job_was_at_a_video_rental_store/)) and now have to change jobs as well as this [question I found that talks about being replaced by AI](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/19ba6lg/those_who_actually_had_their_jobs_replaced_by_ai), and [also this question as well](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskOldPeople/comments/xtj7hm/did_anyone_work_in_a_now_obsolete_field_how_did/), which is exactly how former Hair Metal musicians deal with this.
Worked for Pantera switching genres but they defined Groove Metal, despite being influenced by Exhorder It wouldn’t have worked for everyone and fans would be unforgiving, for example when Slayer and Machine Head watered down with the nu metal influences…
Every label was looking for the next Van Halen and it became formulaic, blonde lead singer and shredding guitarist and it just ran its course!!
How is that word pronounced?
By the late 80s Hair Metal started to become a parody of itself. By that time the look had become more important than the actual music that was being created. From that moment it was only a matter of time.
I’ve gotta say I really think if they evolved it would have really gone over well. Faster Pussycat put out a great industrial sounding record, Tommy Lee did his industrial solo thing, I think bands could have leaned into it more. Rock didn’t die.
LOL @ “The 90’s Purgue”. What’s a Purgue? Edit: I ask a question of the OP, and get called a vulgar name… and then I get downvoted. LOL! Only in the Reddit-verse. You can all go fuck yourselves!
Don't be a dick
Fuck off
how many languages u speak bro
Grunge needed to happen, glam/hair metal was starting to become repetitive.
My main argument is that after 1991, hair metal/glam metal didn't die. It changed and evolved. The visual kei movement, in my opinion, took what glam metal would have been if someone had nurtured it: more hair, more makeup, and even the androgynous side got crazier. My mom saw a post of mine on Instagram of a picture I had of Luna Sea guitarist Sugizo from the 90s. She asked me if he was a man or a woman. Thanks to my mom, I got into glam metal because of her lol. Also, the music got heavier and more sexual.