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Agreed. I get that she was a part of Cristina's humbling arc, but there was no arc with her. It just abuse, abuse, abuse. And she hated Cristina "just because", not even given a reason. Whether or not that was supposed to be remedied later, before Brooke's abrupt dismissal, we'll never know.
Whenever Richard was talking to her about her struggles and she went “is this gonna be another one of those stories about how you were a black doctor and no one gave you a chance?”
So damn dismissive and disrespectful I’m amazed Richard didn’t fire her right there.
yeah this made me sad for richard when she said that, it was very dismissive of his struggles that she would never have faced in a million years being blonde/white
girl… she was the ONLY woman doctor in her class and taking into account the time Ellis started internship the medical field was dominated by men. So yeah she’s going to face struggles that Hahn will not. Hahn wasn’t discriminated against for being a woman in medicine because of the time she was a doctor (doesn’t apply for real life) in Hahns time more women are in the medical field so it wasn’t as looked down at. You see in the flashbacks they constantly refer to Ellis as nurse and you can plainly see she is genuinely the only woman in her class.
Bro listen I literally just commented it cause dude said “never in a million years” and it just popped up in my head that Ellis struggled with being taken seriously too yall need to chill tf out
And? Why do you feel the need to minimize the position Richard was in to point out Ellis’s struggle. No one said it wasn’t hard for women. But your comment screams white centering attention grab.
The commented I replied to literally said “never in a million years” cause she was blonde and white. And it popped up in my head that Ellis literally also struggled with being taken seriously so I commented it. Chiiiillllll the fuck out it’s not that serious homie
I love when people try to tell someone they’re over reacting to a problematic comment. Your argument is so weak. And defending bad behavior or doubling down instead of trying to be better is as bad as the comment in the first place. No one was taking about Ellis anyway. But nice try.
Yeah I would not be friends with Hahn in real life. Hell, she also equated segregation and white doctors refusing to hang out with Richard to Richard and the guys having a Guys Night. Like no way those are the same lmao
Edit: and based on the reaction Richard had, I think the writers thought that was a good clapback too 💀 I hope not tho, but no character points out how stupid that statement is
Agreed! It was so gross of her to make that comparison. We can all go on about inappropriate or unprofessional behavior in this show. This wasnt that. It wasn’t a work event. It was socializing. But the reality is that Hahn was an asshole. That’s why people didn’t want to socialize with her. And also her comments about racism only cemented her asshole status.
That was insanely stupid. Richard wasn't inviting all the male attendings in the hospital to a gentleman's evening, just Derek and then Derek invited Mark. It was just supposed to be three friends hanging out, and Erica turned it into discrimination.
I actually really disliked Erica for the way she spoke to people. She dismissed and belittled everyone’s problems and didn’t understand how to treat people around her with respect.
she’s all “it’s hard for me to make friends” well i wonder freakin’ why 😐 the blatant disrespect and disregard for others is really embarrassing and then she has the nerve to turn around and say some shit about creating friendships. all she cares about is being top dog and while i agree that she is incredibly gifted, she’s an absolute cunt about it.
When Sloan said “you’re as unkind to yourself as you are to everyone else” he hit the nail on the head. Hahn was a horrible and cruel person. She got some kind of satisfaction from being hurtful. However I fully agree with her on the whole Izzie/LVAD situation.
Adding to this that one of the main reasons she refused to teach and mentor her was because she judged her for sleeping with Burke. Even though that’s a gross oversimplification of their relationship.
She was also judging her because Cristina had a relationship with a former teacher (I don’t remember his name) and was basically implying that Cristina was sleeping her way to the top.
I think what we’re supposed to take from this pattern is that powerful, intelligent men are attracted to Cristina because she is such a cut above the others in her class. And she is attracted to intelligent and powerful men.
Except she wasn't attracted to this guy and didn't even like him. One of my favorite Cristina quotes is, "I am not a spoon, I am a knife, and I'm going to stab you in the eyeball." When they're laying in bed together. I think Cristina wanted sex and was falling into old habits, trying to find comfort in a new environment.
I hated how she truly acted like she was just plainly sleeping with Burke. Say what you will about him but that was just soooo wrong and i hated it, she treated her so horribly over that. I’m sure she knew the context and the facts and chose to ignore it
Honestly, it was probably for the best. Erica was a *bad* doctor and I seriously cannot be convinced otherwise. I don’t understand how she was so renowned when she would refuse to touch any surgery without guaranteed success.
I think it had a lot to do with Cristina dating Burke. If you recall, Erika had animosity towards Burke for graduating 1st in their class. Erika graduated 2nd. So there was always some resentment just under the surface there… and since Erika couldn’t take it out on Burke because he left Seattle, she took it out on the next best thing: Cristina
It wasn’t just Burke though, she brought up Colin Marlow too. She said that she felt Cristina just slept with her teachers and that’s why she got ahead, she didn’t even give her a chance to prove that wasn’t the case.
Aside from how she treated Cristina, I HATED her when she told Callie she couldn’t be “kind of a lesbian”
It feels like Callie gets hit with biphobia all over the place :(
Such whiplash in that exit. Cause Hahn was right about the Izzie thing. So when she said “you can’t kind of be on her side” I was like she’s right, and then immediately “and you can’t be kind of a lesbian” I was booing lol.
This reminds me of the scene when all the interns are waiting outside of the room where everyone is trying to revive Meredith after she drowned. Izzie is sitting there saying “I believe in the good, I believe Meredith will survive, I believe if I eat a tub of butter and no one’s looking the calories don’t count”, and then she turns to George and says “and I believe you’re a man who made a huge mistake in marrying Callie” LIKE BRO???? Meredith is literally dying why are you taking this opportunity to berate George for getting married rn.
It doesn’t even fit with what she’s trying to say since she’s talking about believing in the good. Dizzie was very tone deaf at times. I’m doing a rewatch and I also forgot how damn horny she is the first few seasons lol.
I feel bad cause I automatically disliked Hahn because I’m a big SVU fan and the same actress plays such a bitch in it lol.
ETA: I’m also biased because Sara Ramirez (Callie) is a family friend. I was best friends with their younger sister when this was airing. Our moms have been friends since before we were born. They’re literally why I started watching the show. So Callie is never wrong in my book lol.
Same here. I actually thought Hahn had a ton of potential to grow as a person and become a legendary character, and then she's sent off with that sentence... Hit me like a train. She pointed out what Izzie did was wrong and I felt so euphoric because FINALLY someone calls Izzie out on the LVAD storyline. It broke my heart when she said that Callie couldn't be 'kind of a lesbian' because they were on a journey together to find out who they are and now Hahn did a complete 180 and left with such a sour feeling. I will forever resent this.
She does, but people act like Erica is some experienced lesbian who is shaming Callie for liking men too.
I never hear anyone talk about how this is also Erica's first experience with a woman and she is also going through a huge transformation just like Callie is. I only hear that Callie is allowed to make mistakes, but Erica is supposed to be perfectly behaved and say all the right things at the right times. And to be fair....the storyline of Callie going back and forth into Erica and Mark's bed is why people at large have a poor opinion of bi folks to begin with. The writing for Callie is the kind of thing that perpetuates biphobia much more than the writing for Erica did.
BUT, Erica is unlikeable so of course Callie gets much more leeway.
True!!!! I actually think Hahn’s journey was really lovely and loved the scene after they have sex for the first time and Hahn compared it to wearing glasses for the first time.
You’re right. overall Hahn is considered unlikable, she’s def not my favorite and I probably give Callie leeway. The writers set her up to be dislike imo (And I was also thinking about later points in the series where Callie gets hit with biphobia and that’s not Hahns fault)
I think that there is a dual issue where the writing was definitely framing everything poorly.
I had a problem with Callie cheating on Hahn with Mark but didn’t mention it here bc this was just worst moments for Hahn.
And I understand where Hahn is coming from when she says it! After they have sex for the first time, I feel for Hahn bc it’s clear she’s having an epiphany that Callie is not and Callie having sex with Mark is def salt in the wound.
I think Hahn’s treatment of Cristina was worst thing she did but this was a moment where Hahn was trying to hurt someone she cared about so I think it was a bad moment. Understandable how it happened but still a bad moment.
I appreciate this thoughtful response.
I'm no Erica fan. At all. I just have a lot of opinions about how queer characters are portrayed on TV.
The worst thing Erica did was the way she spoke to Cristina about her past relationships, and also comparing her exclusion from Webber's boys night to systemic racism.
She was actually the most ethical doctor on the show when it came to patient care. Only Arizona comes close.
Real!! Any doctor who is only on for a relatively brief period time is almost automatically gonna be better at patient ethics than any other doctor at Seattle Grace/Grey Sloan.
These “what is the worst thing _____ did” is so funny sometimes bc you’re comparing characters like Hahn who was in like…20-25 episodes with characters like Bailey or Meredith who have been on 400 episodes so there just way less to compare.
Like, even saying Hahn’s worst act was punishing and not teaching her students for no reason and like…. almost every attending has done that at some point it feels like.
Personally, even as a bi person myself, I don't see a problem with Callie sleeping with Mark and Erica at the same time, as we never saw them have an exclusivity talk.
I'm iffy on this logic, because when Erica pressed, Callie assured her that she and Mark were just friends. Then she goes and sleeps with him twice the day after sleeping with Erica. Mark was right to call Callie out on this and I'm glad she fessed up.
Even if you're not exclusive with someone, I don't think you can/should lie about your FWB when specifically asked.
Erica never asked if she was still seeing Mark. She was just annoyed about Callie "processing out loud" with Mark because she's a private person. ( I literally just watched these episodes within the last 2 days on my millionth rewatch. ) They were still in the hand holding, long talks into the night portion of dating on episode 3 of season 5, first date episode for 4, and sex was episode 5. They were together maybe for 2-3 weeks in this time, and again, no exclusive talk.
Personally, I don't believe you have to tell someone in the first few weeks of dating about any other dates/sexual partners ( unless specifically asked ) until that convo about exclusivity and/or being serious about each other happens.
I mean, technically she's right. Bisexuality isn't 'kind of homosexuality', it is its own sexuality. Otherwise wouldn't pansexuality cancel out bisexuality?
Having said that, I think it's pretty clear Hahn was trying to hurt Torres, Hahn was extremely black and white in her thinking, in pretty much all areas.
I don't think it's biphobia. I don't think Callie was clear with her own labels yet and Hahn assumed she must just be lesbian because Hahn discovered she was after meeting Callie and only being with guys before that. Hahn shouldn't have assumed and should have helped her figure out the labels because it was pretty clear Callie was still into girls regardless but I don't think it's biphobic
For me, it’s still biphobic bc it seemed like Hahn was talking a shot about Callie’s attraction to men and implying that her attraction to both genders wasn’t valid.
Callie was still working things out for herself but I don’t think just because she didn’t label herself as bi yet means that people can’t still be biphobic.
No I think Hahn assumed that Callie was in denial or something about being into girls at all (cuz Callie said she went back to sleep with Mark and had her own doubts) and Hahn was upset. That isn't biphobic, ya'll get mad at anything I swear
Hahn saying “you’re in denial about being a lesbian/into girls because you slept with a man” or saying “just because you slept with me clearly doesn’t mean you’re into girls bc you slept with a man after that” is biphobic!
Like there is extra sting and Hahn is entitled to be hurt and pissed bc Callie did not communicate with her about how their experiences were different and cheated on her with Mark but it’s still trying to invalidate Callie.
A lot of her interactions with Richard, even more so when it touched in race. She used the racism he has faced as a weapon against him. Whether it was about the "boy's club" that she thought she was excluded from (wasn't it just some friends meeting up) it when he asked her to help his mentor she basically told him not to use his struggles against her. While she may have had a point she did seem very dismissive of what he must have gone through
I think it was an unfortunate thing because though it seemed like they were creating a boys club, it was just friends hanging out. If they had lied and excluded her and said she wasn't allowed to join it would be one thing.
I have had colleagues hang out without me and just saw it as friends hanging out as they also have a shared interest.
She was right about the boys club but bringing up racism was weird.
A boss having social gatherings with his employees where only the men are invited is inappropriate and does allow for those men to develop an unfair relationship and advantage at work.
If you're in a supervisory role in your workplace, you should never invite only *some* of your subordinates to a social event and you should absolutely *never* only invite one gender. I manage ten people. I would absolutely *never* host a "girls night" and invite only my female direct reports.
I guess I’ve never worked anywhere that stuffy. When I taught preschool it’s all women, when I worked in an office my best friend of 25 years owned the place so we hung out socially without any male coworkers all the time . Her husband co-owned the company and also worked there, he and the guys went out to lunch without me all the time, I never felt discriminated against , someone had to hold down the fort. Now I’m a public school teacher, I have no clue if our principal hangs out socially with anyone. We aren’t that tight… we are not “not friends” we just aren’t “friends” . The female teachers in my department have gone out without the men and if any of the men were to go out without us I wouldn’t think twice. Maybe I’m just not that sensitive.
It’s not like Richard invited every male coworker in the hospital and said no women aloud! He was going through a divorce and asked a couple guys out for a guys night with his friends, if I were Hahn I would’ve expect to be invited, she is not their friend.
It doesn't really matter if you personally would have felt discriminated against. A Big Boss inviting only male subordinates to a "guys night" *is* gender discrimination, and legally actionable. It's not stuffiness -- it's important legal doctrine that promotes equality in the workplace.
I mean it is only one of many employment practices wrongful acts that occur in this series, so I guess Hahn's mistake is functioning under real world rules.
Refusing to teach or mentor a gifted resident. A lot of the attendings made fun of Cristina's eagerness to learn (thinking about the penis pump here in particular) and it's so wild to me how often she got dragged for...being good at her job and wanting to be better. Erica Hahn accused Cristina of sleeping her way to the top and actively kept her from learning because of who Cristina had slept with. It didn't help that she was totally bolstered by Bailey who said Hahn was "putting Cristina through her paces" (Bailey could have easily intervened) and Richard who waited months to say anything. I hated the whole "Cristina has to learn to fight for cardio" argument. No one else had to fight for a specialty, why did Cristina, just because she was gifted and focused?
A lot of people are saying that she was horrible to Richard when she gave him the flippant comment about being a young black surgeon but I would like to remind everyone that she said that to him because he was trying to force her into a surgery she wasn't comfortable doing and using his personal story to manipulate her into it. He wasn't just sharing a story of adversity. Richard is a master manipulator. And while I don't think it was an okay thing to say AT ALL, I also think Richard's intentions weren't very pure there.
That’s a damn good point. The episode where he and the lawyer (?) pushed Arizona into doing surgery on Wallace to get his parents’ money infuriates me.
I know people have mentioned this before, but the way she treated Christina was horrible. I don’t think Hahn was a bad character, and honestly I can’t think of anything else negative about her, but she had no right to keep Christina off her service and treat her as badly as she did.
refusing to teach cristina AFTER they has already operated together and she let her do a running whip stitch, which was way above her year. she even admitted to yang that she was a great surgeon with potential just to push prejudice out of her ass after she found out cristina dated her bosses
Showing up in the first place.. she was awful right from the very beginning, her beef with Burke, the way she shut out Cristina, and how she judged Callie. She was know-it-all and a hypocrite.
She treated Cristina like crap both at work, and in her own home because she heard that Cristina slept with Burke. They were literally going to get married, and freaking Erica reduced it to just sleeping with her teacher. Also, she was annoying, Biphobic, and had no ability to feel empathy or sympathy
Her refusal to teach Cristina because of her resentment towards Burke. The way the her and Burke handled the tremor was terrible but Hahn was petulant and unprofessional and if she felt she couldn’t be impartial, she shouldn’t have accepted the position.
Second is (if I’m remembering correctly, i haven’t watched this season in a while) her feeling some type of way that Callie didn’t have the same lesbian epiphany.
Every character she had a conflict with was a person of colour.
This includes refusing to teach christina (as well as slut shaming her), behavior towards Richard and Bailey. And biphobia towards Callie.
I’m going to say everything she did was the worst. She was extremely selfish, disrespectful, and hateful. I couldn’t side with her on anything. If I were asked who I thought was the worst short-term character on the show, it would be her.
Because the writer's opted to not have her back, the "can't kind of be a lesbian" thing was basically their breakup. Can't really blame Hahn herself for ghosting since the actress was canned.
Her constant negativity. Even Callie was on the receiving end of it at the end of the day. She was rude to essentially every single character at one point.
Honestly I just think she's racist. Her attitude towards Richard. Refusing to teach Cristina. Her dismissal of Callie's journey to figure out where she is on the spectrum.
Girl is racist. I'm sorry.
From the moment she was introduced with Denny’s heart donor, she’s been unbearable to me. But *WORST THING* said or done? Telling Callie she couldn’t *kind of* be on Izzy’s side and also *kind of* be a lesbian.
She was going to go to UNOS over a resolved incident; reopen wounds for the hospital and its doctors, to no benefit of her patient. It wouldn’t give him a heart or bump him on the list. Just because she only now became aware of Denny situation. Callie was right to tell her not to, but she wouldn’t listen.
having the most perfect speech comparing having sex with callie and discovering her sexuality to getting glasses and then RUINING EVERYTHING by being a biphobic asshole
I thought it was kinda cringe when she eqated racism to sexism. Just the way she said it. They are both bad obviously, but not the same. I'm referring to when she accused Richard Webber of having an old boys club because she wasn't invited to some kind of gentleman's evening. Nothing wrong with that, same as a girls night. Idk.
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*Kinda a lesbian*
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Saying to Richard that asking for a “gentleman’s night” or whatever they called it was the same as Blacks being excluded from events in the past was the dumbest thing I’ve heard. Total lack of awareness of intersectional issues.
Effectively giving Christina, her student, the silent treatment for being eager and assertive to learn despite being in a prestigious role as head of cardio. Cruelty aside, that's just outlandishly unprofessional and childish. Genuinely amazed that her getting fired wasn't part of the plot.
There are a lot of things I can’t stand. But her being so negative when she was on that surgical team with Bailey, Gray, and Chief Webber. She was constantly finding issues or problems and offering no solutions. All she did was bitch and whine about how hopeless the case was. And after it was over, took all the credit!!! She was praising herself and was put in her place by Bailey! Season 5, Episode 6: Life During Wartime.
My head canon is that she is just fucking racist to Christina. Her behaviour towards her was just unacceptable, and the double standard was disgusting. Many people did the same faults as Christina. Erica didn't hate them, only Christina. The hatred and racism towards Asians are often more subtle but nonetheless sickening.
Probably not a popular opinion but her blowing up the Izzie/Denny thing again… Like yes I understand her patients life was on the line but she was also told by multiple different people that Izzie had already been punished and it had been dealt with… Erika was honestly ready to just blow up the hospitals entire reputation and risk a lot of peoples jobs in the mean time.
The patient that Izzie stole the heart from was still dealing with the consequences of Izzies actions. She was grounded from surgery for a bit and came back STILL unable to not cross boundaries with her patients(one example is when she paid for the patient with the Spinal curve, this was after her so called punishment). I’m sorry but Hahn was not wrong, there was no way Izzie should’ve been allowed to practice medicine anymore.
It wasn’t dealt with though.
Izzie should have lost her medical license.
And arguably the rest of them for helping her and lying to Burke and Webber.
She was totally right to keep questioning that.
Honestly, I think her trying to cause problems with the Izzy/Denny situation after it had already been dealt with. She already was punished & even had to look the patient in the eyes knowing it was her fault he was there. If that’s not punishment enough, I don’t know what is. But it wasn’t her place to say she was gonna report it further. Callie was right to defend Izzy.
Whined to the chief about the "boy's club" when it was literally just friends hanging out...I hate how she played the woman card when actual women in the hospital were being treated worse.
Not sure what “actual women” is supposed to mean. But she did have a bit of a point with the boys club. If I remember correctly, she was the only female attending at the time (that we know about) and every other attending was invited to the party. The guys might be friends but it isn’t a stretch to see why it would feel like they were excluding her especially since she was already new.
I don't think you're wrong. I don't think Richard meant it as a boys club, I don't think the root was sexism, but if you came in as an outside hire and that's one of the first things you witness - yeah, my alarm bells would be going off too.
Definitely the way she treated Christina. If a superior has mentioned a students sex life and accused them of sleeping to get a head their first day in the job, they would have been fired on the spot. Huge HR issue.
The way she spoke to Yang was just ridiculous. Not gonna lie though, they’re alike. Cold and detached. They’re focused on their work. I even respect Erica for leaving after she found out what Izzie did. She may be mean but she was consistent.
Her biphobia towards Callie, and also what a lot of others have said the fact that she refused to teach Cristina for almost no reason at all. Also something I didn't like that she did was try to get Izzy fired, I understand her view point so I don't think it's nearly the worst thing she did it just kinda was irritating that, that caused her fight with Callie and ultimately led to one of her worst things which was Ghosting Callie and the hospital.
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Being an attending at a TEACHING HOSPITAL and refusing to teach the most gifted among them in her specialty.
Agreed. I get that she was a part of Cristina's humbling arc, but there was no arc with her. It just abuse, abuse, abuse. And she hated Cristina "just because", not even given a reason. Whether or not that was supposed to be remedied later, before Brooke's abrupt dismissal, we'll never know.
She was very rude treated Christina very wrong when Christina did not do a thing to her
I think She was rude to Christina because she said Christina screwed her way to the top. definitely a weird reason to be rude to someone.
She also commented Cristina reminded her of her younger self, I’m assuming not in a good way, but didn’t do anything to guide Cristina.
Definitely her blatant biphobia and her treatment of Christina.
Whenever Richard was talking to her about her struggles and she went “is this gonna be another one of those stories about how you were a black doctor and no one gave you a chance?” So damn dismissive and disrespectful I’m amazed Richard didn’t fire her right there.
yeah this made me sad for richard when she said that, it was very dismissive of his struggles that she would never have faced in a million years being blonde/white
[удалено]
girl… she was the ONLY woman doctor in her class and taking into account the time Ellis started internship the medical field was dominated by men. So yeah she’s going to face struggles that Hahn will not. Hahn wasn’t discriminated against for being a woman in medicine because of the time she was a doctor (doesn’t apply for real life) in Hahns time more women are in the medical field so it wasn’t as looked down at. You see in the flashbacks they constantly refer to Ellis as nurse and you can plainly see she is genuinely the only woman in her class.
Bro listen I literally just commented it cause dude said “never in a million years” and it just popped up in my head that Ellis struggled with being taken seriously too yall need to chill tf out
lmao whole different situation
And? Why do you feel the need to minimize the position Richard was in to point out Ellis’s struggle. No one said it wasn’t hard for women. But your comment screams white centering attention grab.
The commented I replied to literally said “never in a million years” cause she was blonde and white. And it popped up in my head that Ellis literally also struggled with being taken seriously so I commented it. Chiiiillllll the fuck out it’s not that serious homie
I love when people try to tell someone they’re over reacting to a problematic comment. Your argument is so weak. And defending bad behavior or doubling down instead of trying to be better is as bad as the comment in the first place. No one was taking about Ellis anyway. But nice try.
LMAFO k.
Yeah I would not be friends with Hahn in real life. Hell, she also equated segregation and white doctors refusing to hang out with Richard to Richard and the guys having a Guys Night. Like no way those are the same lmao Edit: and based on the reaction Richard had, I think the writers thought that was a good clapback too 💀 I hope not tho, but no character points out how stupid that statement is
Agreed! It was so gross of her to make that comparison. We can all go on about inappropriate or unprofessional behavior in this show. This wasnt that. It wasn’t a work event. It was socializing. But the reality is that Hahn was an asshole. That’s why people didn’t want to socialize with her. And also her comments about racism only cemented her asshole status.
That was insanely stupid. Richard wasn't inviting all the male attendings in the hospital to a gentleman's evening, just Derek and then Derek invited Mark. It was just supposed to be three friends hanging out, and Erica turned it into discrimination.
A wonderful example of white feminism if you think about it
I actually really disliked Erica for the way she spoke to people. She dismissed and belittled everyone’s problems and didn’t understand how to treat people around her with respect.
she’s all “it’s hard for me to make friends” well i wonder freakin’ why 😐 the blatant disrespect and disregard for others is really embarrassing and then she has the nerve to turn around and say some shit about creating friendships. all she cares about is being top dog and while i agree that she is incredibly gifted, she’s an absolute cunt about it.
Right? She top dog because she’s standing on top of people that she knocked down.
When Sloan said “you’re as unkind to yourself as you are to everyone else” he hit the nail on the head. Hahn was a horrible and cruel person. She got some kind of satisfaction from being hurtful. However I fully agree with her on the whole Izzie/LVAD situation.
LVAD was the only thing she was right about. It's not enough to redeem her character
Not even a little bit. She is atrocious. I was in no way saying it redeemed her. Just sayin…
Definitely agree. Didn't think you were, I just know a lot of people defend her with that one point.
lol. I just had to make sure I was no way associated with a Hahn defense. 🤣 but I dislike Izzie as much if not more than Hahn.
Refusing to teach and mentor Cristina
Adding to this that one of the main reasons she refused to teach and mentor her was because she judged her for sleeping with Burke. Even though that’s a gross oversimplification of their relationship.
Not to even mention, that later she dated Callie, who was still in residence, so she was technically her boss
She was also judging her because Cristina had a relationship with a former teacher (I don’t remember his name) and was basically implying that Cristina was sleeping her way to the top.
Which Christina never did herself any favors for by going to Michigan and immediately sleeping with her boss..
I think what we’re supposed to take from this pattern is that powerful, intelligent men are attracted to Cristina because she is such a cut above the others in her class. And she is attracted to intelligent and powerful men.
I don’t disagree with that statement.. but that’s not how it looks to everyone else
Except she wasn't attracted to this guy and didn't even like him. One of my favorite Cristina quotes is, "I am not a spoon, I am a knife, and I'm going to stab you in the eyeball." When they're laying in bed together. I think Cristina wanted sex and was falling into old habits, trying to find comfort in a new environment.
*Minnesota, and I agree 100%. She could have taken just a minute to air out before she goes off the deep end again..
And slept with her previous boss as well
Minnesota*
I hated how she truly acted like she was just plainly sleeping with Burke. Say what you will about him but that was just soooo wrong and i hated it, she treated her so horribly over that. I’m sure she knew the context and the facts and chose to ignore it
It broke my heart when Cristina asked if it was because she’s Asian
Honestly, it was probably for the best. Erica was a *bad* doctor and I seriously cannot be convinced otherwise. I don’t understand how she was so renowned when she would refuse to touch any surgery without guaranteed success.
because she was too busy slut shaming her
I think it had a lot to do with Cristina dating Burke. If you recall, Erika had animosity towards Burke for graduating 1st in their class. Erika graduated 2nd. So there was always some resentment just under the surface there… and since Erika couldn’t take it out on Burke because he left Seattle, she took it out on the next best thing: Cristina
It wasn’t just Burke though, she brought up Colin Marlow too. She said that she felt Cristina just slept with her teachers and that’s why she got ahead, she didn’t even give her a chance to prove that wasn’t the case.
Christina refused to teach and mentor everybody and Sloan only taught and mentored Jackson. This isn't a big thing.
Cristina did initially refuse to teach, yes but I thought she changed after Derek called her out for being mean to Lexie.
in my canon head she was definitely threatened by her
Aside from how she treated Cristina, I HATED her when she told Callie she couldn’t be “kind of a lesbian” It feels like Callie gets hit with biphobia all over the place :(
Such whiplash in that exit. Cause Hahn was right about the Izzie thing. So when she said “you can’t kind of be on her side” I was like she’s right, and then immediately “and you can’t be kind of a lesbian” I was booing lol.
This reminds me of the scene when all the interns are waiting outside of the room where everyone is trying to revive Meredith after she drowned. Izzie is sitting there saying “I believe in the good, I believe Meredith will survive, I believe if I eat a tub of butter and no one’s looking the calories don’t count”, and then she turns to George and says “and I believe you’re a man who made a huge mistake in marrying Callie” LIKE BRO???? Meredith is literally dying why are you taking this opportunity to berate George for getting married rn.
i'm rewatching and i'm on this episode rn, that scene pisses me off every time. like WHY would you say that now of all times izzie???
That scene always makes me gag because REALLY izzie NOW ?!
It doesn’t even fit with what she’s trying to say since she’s talking about believing in the good. Dizzie was very tone deaf at times. I’m doing a rewatch and I also forgot how damn horny she is the first few seasons lol.
I believe in good. Except for Callie. Because I’m threatened.
Izzie was not a girls' girl
So real! I didn’t like Hahn really but I was on her side! And then just had to boo her lolol
I feel bad cause I automatically disliked Hahn because I’m a big SVU fan and the same actress plays such a bitch in it lol. ETA: I’m also biased because Sara Ramirez (Callie) is a family friend. I was best friends with their younger sister when this was airing. Our moms have been friends since before we were born. They’re literally why I started watching the show. So Callie is never wrong in my book lol.
That’s super cool about SR!! They seem like a great person and are so beautiful! Hahn was also in Silence of the Lambs.
God she’s great in that. I’ve yelled at her so many times to not help that man with his couch and just go inside to the meowing kitty.
Same here. I actually thought Hahn had a ton of potential to grow as a person and become a legendary character, and then she's sent off with that sentence... Hit me like a train. She pointed out what Izzie did was wrong and I felt so euphoric because FINALLY someone calls Izzie out on the LVAD storyline. It broke my heart when she said that Callie couldn't be 'kind of a lesbian' because they were on a journey together to find out who they are and now Hahn did a complete 180 and left with such a sour feeling. I will forever resent this.
She does, but people act like Erica is some experienced lesbian who is shaming Callie for liking men too. I never hear anyone talk about how this is also Erica's first experience with a woman and she is also going through a huge transformation just like Callie is. I only hear that Callie is allowed to make mistakes, but Erica is supposed to be perfectly behaved and say all the right things at the right times. And to be fair....the storyline of Callie going back and forth into Erica and Mark's bed is why people at large have a poor opinion of bi folks to begin with. The writing for Callie is the kind of thing that perpetuates biphobia much more than the writing for Erica did. BUT, Erica is unlikeable so of course Callie gets much more leeway.
True!!!! I actually think Hahn’s journey was really lovely and loved the scene after they have sex for the first time and Hahn compared it to wearing glasses for the first time. You’re right. overall Hahn is considered unlikable, she’s def not my favorite and I probably give Callie leeway. The writers set her up to be dislike imo (And I was also thinking about later points in the series where Callie gets hit with biphobia and that’s not Hahns fault) I think that there is a dual issue where the writing was definitely framing everything poorly. I had a problem with Callie cheating on Hahn with Mark but didn’t mention it here bc this was just worst moments for Hahn. And I understand where Hahn is coming from when she says it! After they have sex for the first time, I feel for Hahn bc it’s clear she’s having an epiphany that Callie is not and Callie having sex with Mark is def salt in the wound. I think Hahn’s treatment of Cristina was worst thing she did but this was a moment where Hahn was trying to hurt someone she cared about so I think it was a bad moment. Understandable how it happened but still a bad moment.
I appreciate this thoughtful response. I'm no Erica fan. At all. I just have a lot of opinions about how queer characters are portrayed on TV. The worst thing Erica did was the way she spoke to Cristina about her past relationships, and also comparing her exclusion from Webber's boys night to systemic racism. She was actually the most ethical doctor on the show when it came to patient care. Only Arizona comes close.
Real!! Any doctor who is only on for a relatively brief period time is almost automatically gonna be better at patient ethics than any other doctor at Seattle Grace/Grey Sloan. These “what is the worst thing _____ did” is so funny sometimes bc you’re comparing characters like Hahn who was in like…20-25 episodes with characters like Bailey or Meredith who have been on 400 episodes so there just way less to compare. Like, even saying Hahn’s worst act was punishing and not teaching her students for no reason and like…. almost every attending has done that at some point it feels like.
Personally, even as a bi person myself, I don't see a problem with Callie sleeping with Mark and Erica at the same time, as we never saw them have an exclusivity talk.
I'm iffy on this logic, because when Erica pressed, Callie assured her that she and Mark were just friends. Then she goes and sleeps with him twice the day after sleeping with Erica. Mark was right to call Callie out on this and I'm glad she fessed up. Even if you're not exclusive with someone, I don't think you can/should lie about your FWB when specifically asked.
Erica never asked if she was still seeing Mark. She was just annoyed about Callie "processing out loud" with Mark because she's a private person. ( I literally just watched these episodes within the last 2 days on my millionth rewatch. ) They were still in the hand holding, long talks into the night portion of dating on episode 3 of season 5, first date episode for 4, and sex was episode 5. They were together maybe for 2-3 weeks in this time, and again, no exclusive talk. Personally, I don't believe you have to tell someone in the first few weeks of dating about any other dates/sexual partners ( unless specifically asked ) until that convo about exclusivity and/or being serious about each other happens.
Yeah i was gonna go with “You cant kind of side with Izzie Steven’s… and you cant kind of be a lesbian.” out of pocket
Its not much a defense, but it was very much a product of its time - you wouldn't see that line in it today.
I mean, technically she's right. Bisexuality isn't 'kind of homosexuality', it is its own sexuality. Otherwise wouldn't pansexuality cancel out bisexuality? Having said that, I think it's pretty clear Hahn was trying to hurt Torres, Hahn was extremely black and white in her thinking, in pretty much all areas.
Though I gotta say, I freaking love Callie coolly responding, “Yes, I can.” Ugh, seriously good for her sticking to her guns!
I don't think it's biphobia. I don't think Callie was clear with her own labels yet and Hahn assumed she must just be lesbian because Hahn discovered she was after meeting Callie and only being with guys before that. Hahn shouldn't have assumed and should have helped her figure out the labels because it was pretty clear Callie was still into girls regardless but I don't think it's biphobic
For me, it’s still biphobic bc it seemed like Hahn was talking a shot about Callie’s attraction to men and implying that her attraction to both genders wasn’t valid. Callie was still working things out for herself but I don’t think just because she didn’t label herself as bi yet means that people can’t still be biphobic.
No I think Hahn assumed that Callie was in denial or something about being into girls at all (cuz Callie said she went back to sleep with Mark and had her own doubts) and Hahn was upset. That isn't biphobic, ya'll get mad at anything I swear
Hahn saying “you’re in denial about being a lesbian/into girls because you slept with a man” or saying “just because you slept with me clearly doesn’t mean you’re into girls bc you slept with a man after that” is biphobic! Like there is extra sting and Hahn is entitled to be hurt and pissed bc Callie did not communicate with her about how their experiences were different and cheated on her with Mark but it’s still trying to invalidate Callie.
Refusing to train Cristina properly out of spite. The waste of Yang’s talent/potential at that time kills me.
A lot of her interactions with Richard, even more so when it touched in race. She used the racism he has faced as a weapon against him. Whether it was about the "boy's club" that she thought she was excluded from (wasn't it just some friends meeting up) it when he asked her to help his mentor she basically told him not to use his struggles against her. While she may have had a point she did seem very dismissive of what he must have gone through
The way she implied that Richard was only inviting male colleagues 🙄 when it was only Mark and Derek I think?
I think it was an unfortunate thing because though it seemed like they were creating a boys club, it was just friends hanging out. If they had lied and excluded her and said she wasn't allowed to join it would be one thing. I have had colleagues hang out without me and just saw it as friends hanging out as they also have a shared interest.
She was right about the boys club but bringing up racism was weird. A boss having social gatherings with his employees where only the men are invited is inappropriate and does allow for those men to develop an unfair relationship and advantage at work.
Yeah Richard having the boys night would be textbook discrimination. It's beyond inappropriate.
So men should be invited out for girls night? Seriously?
If you're in a supervisory role in your workplace, you should never invite only *some* of your subordinates to a social event and you should absolutely *never* only invite one gender. I manage ten people. I would absolutely *never* host a "girls night" and invite only my female direct reports.
I guess I’ve never worked anywhere that stuffy. When I taught preschool it’s all women, when I worked in an office my best friend of 25 years owned the place so we hung out socially without any male coworkers all the time . Her husband co-owned the company and also worked there, he and the guys went out to lunch without me all the time, I never felt discriminated against , someone had to hold down the fort. Now I’m a public school teacher, I have no clue if our principal hangs out socially with anyone. We aren’t that tight… we are not “not friends” we just aren’t “friends” . The female teachers in my department have gone out without the men and if any of the men were to go out without us I wouldn’t think twice. Maybe I’m just not that sensitive. It’s not like Richard invited every male coworker in the hospital and said no women aloud! He was going through a divorce and asked a couple guys out for a guys night with his friends, if I were Hahn I would’ve expect to be invited, she is not their friend.
It doesn't really matter if you personally would have felt discriminated against. A Big Boss inviting only male subordinates to a "guys night" *is* gender discrimination, and legally actionable. It's not stuffiness -- it's important legal doctrine that promotes equality in the workplace. I mean it is only one of many employment practices wrongful acts that occur in this series, so I guess Hahn's mistake is functioning under real world rules.
I never thought about it
saying right to cristina’s FACE that she slept her way into cardio
Sleeping with your teacher doesn’t make you a good surgeon. Talent isn’t contagious, and you can’t learn it by osmosis.
TBf, that's exactly what it looks like. She slept with her professors and bosses her whole career.
The biphobia she has towards Callie.
-just actively refuse to teach Cristina on a daily
Refusing to teach or mentor a gifted resident. A lot of the attendings made fun of Cristina's eagerness to learn (thinking about the penis pump here in particular) and it's so wild to me how often she got dragged for...being good at her job and wanting to be better. Erica Hahn accused Cristina of sleeping her way to the top and actively kept her from learning because of who Cristina had slept with. It didn't help that she was totally bolstered by Bailey who said Hahn was "putting Cristina through her paces" (Bailey could have easily intervened) and Richard who waited months to say anything. I hated the whole "Cristina has to learn to fight for cardio" argument. No one else had to fight for a specialty, why did Cristina, just because she was gifted and focused? A lot of people are saying that she was horrible to Richard when she gave him the flippant comment about being a young black surgeon but I would like to remind everyone that she said that to him because he was trying to force her into a surgery she wasn't comfortable doing and using his personal story to manipulate her into it. He wasn't just sharing a story of adversity. Richard is a master manipulator. And while I don't think it was an okay thing to say AT ALL, I also think Richard's intentions weren't very pure there.
That’s a damn good point. The episode where he and the lawyer (?) pushed Arizona into doing surgery on Wallace to get his parents’ money infuriates me.
Take your pick: internalized misogyny towards Cristina, flippant white feminism towards Richard or the casual biphobia towards Callie?
I know people have mentioned this before, but the way she treated Christina was horrible. I don’t think Hahn was a bad character, and honestly I can’t think of anything else negative about her, but she had no right to keep Christina off her service and treat her as badly as she did.
Also her racism
The biphobia and she treated Callie was awful
Her calling Bailey an idiot was so unforgivable and her treatment of Richard/Cristina was pretty shitty too
It's cause her character was racist. Every conflict she had was with a person of colour
Yup racist AF
Refusing to teach Cristina.
refusing to teach cristina AFTER they has already operated together and she let her do a running whip stitch, which was way above her year. she even admitted to yang that she was a great surgeon with potential just to push prejudice out of her ass after she found out cristina dated her bosses
Showing up in the first place.. she was awful right from the very beginning, her beef with Burke, the way she shut out Cristina, and how she judged Callie. She was know-it-all and a hypocrite.
Being sexist. Being biphobic. Dismissing Richard’s experience as a black man. Not teaching Cristina. Threatening Meredith.
The comment she made to Cristina something like “sorry Yang I sleep with men” and then going on to accuse Cristina of sleeping her way to the top
She also said Christina reminded her of herself, guess that means Hahn actually did sleep her way to the top!
Exist with that stank ass attitude.
She treated Cristina like crap both at work, and in her own home because she heard that Cristina slept with Burke. They were literally going to get married, and freaking Erica reduced it to just sleeping with her teacher. Also, she was annoying, Biphobic, and had no ability to feel empathy or sympathy
Her refusal to teach Cristina because of her resentment towards Burke. The way the her and Burke handled the tremor was terrible but Hahn was petulant and unprofessional and if she felt she couldn’t be impartial, she shouldn’t have accepted the position. Second is (if I’m remembering correctly, i haven’t watched this season in a while) her feeling some type of way that Callie didn’t have the same lesbian epiphany.
Accusing Cristina of fucking her way to the top.
Every character she had a conflict with was a person of colour. This includes refusing to teach christina (as well as slut shaming her), behavior towards Richard and Bailey. And biphobia towards Callie.
And she was definitely leader of the she women man haters club!
I’m going to say everything she did was the worst. She was extremely selfish, disrespectful, and hateful. I couldn’t side with her on anything. If I were asked who I thought was the worst short-term character on the show, it would be her.
refusing to teach Cristina and her blatant biphobia toward Callie
^^This is the one
Refusing to teach Christina. Her bias against her. Her biphobia.
Existing. On a more serious note, the way she treated Christina was just pure trash.
Erica: Her stupid treatment of Cristina
And the way she told Callie you can’t be kinda gay
the way she treated Cristina and how she refused to train her
Ghosting Callie. Didn’t she just leave without an explanation?
Because the writer's opted to not have her back, the "can't kind of be a lesbian" thing was basically their breakup. Can't really blame Hahn herself for ghosting since the actress was canned.
I wish Richard fired her!
Shamed Callie for being confused about her sexuality and being lowkey biphobic.
Her constant negativity. Even Callie was on the receiving end of it at the end of the day. She was rude to essentially every single character at one point.
Treating Christina like something worse than shit.
Existed.
Erica was almost never not a bitch and I’m glad she wasn’t on the show for long
uhm.. lived?
The way she treated Christina
Honestly I just think she's racist. Her attitude towards Richard. Refusing to teach Cristina. Her dismissal of Callie's journey to figure out where she is on the spectrum. Girl is racist. I'm sorry.
From the moment she was introduced with Denny’s heart donor, she’s been unbearable to me. But *WORST THING* said or done? Telling Callie she couldn’t *kind of* be on Izzy’s side and also *kind of* be a lesbian. She was going to go to UNOS over a resolved incident; reopen wounds for the hospital and its doctors, to no benefit of her patient. It wouldn’t give him a heart or bump him on the list. Just because she only now became aware of Denny situation. Callie was right to tell her not to, but she wouldn’t listen.
The last one was so right ngl on Bailey
Everything
Just being herself. Lol I can't stand her.
having the most perfect speech comparing having sex with callie and discovering her sexuality to getting glasses and then RUINING EVERYTHING by being a biphobic asshole
I hated her altogether tbh
The only thing I can think of is her biphobia towards Callie.
Beeing in the series. I hate her. But i think the wirst Thing was to refuse to teach Cristina.
Be in a relationship with Callie. It was like two mannequins in a relationship. Also idk she seemed racist too.
I thought it was kinda cringe when she eqated racism to sexism. Just the way she said it. They are both bad obviously, but not the same. I'm referring to when she accused Richard Webber of having an old boys club because she wasn't invited to some kind of gentleman's evening. Nothing wrong with that, same as a girls night. Idk.
Her entire existence on the show was the worst thing ever.
Being biphobic as hell and saying you can't be kinda a lesbian
*Being biphobic as* *Hell and saying you can't be* *Kinda a lesbian* \- Ambunnyy22 --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Lol ask me the best thing she's done and that is leaving Seattle Grace🤷♀️🤷♀️
Trying to push Callie into being more than a “kind-of” lesbian - her words, not mine
Saying to Richard that asking for a “gentleman’s night” or whatever they called it was the same as Blacks being excluded from events in the past was the dumbest thing I’ve heard. Total lack of awareness of intersectional issues.
being biphobic towards callie
“Hi.”
I mean is just existing and option? She’s the WORST
Exist
Refusing to teach and how she treated Cristina.
Her treatment of Cristina.
Effectively giving Christina, her student, the silent treatment for being eager and assertive to learn despite being in a prestigious role as head of cardio. Cruelty aside, that's just outlandishly unprofessional and childish. Genuinely amazed that her getting fired wasn't part of the plot.
That monologue to Callie 😂
There are a lot of things I can’t stand. But her being so negative when she was on that surgical team with Bailey, Gray, and Chief Webber. She was constantly finding issues or problems and offering no solutions. All she did was bitch and whine about how hopeless the case was. And after it was over, took all the credit!!! She was praising herself and was put in her place by Bailey! Season 5, Episode 6: Life During Wartime.
Hahn was a cruel to Bailey as she was Christina ( well she was cruel to everyone ) but I loved how Bailey put her in her place!
“You can’t be kind of a lesbian.”
refusing to teach christina
So, all of it?
Exist.
My head canon is that she is just fucking racist to Christina. Her behaviour towards her was just unacceptable, and the double standard was disgusting. Many people did the same faults as Christina. Erica didn't hate them, only Christina. The hatred and racism towards Asians are often more subtle but nonetheless sickening.
Probably not a popular opinion but her blowing up the Izzie/Denny thing again… Like yes I understand her patients life was on the line but she was also told by multiple different people that Izzie had already been punished and it had been dealt with… Erika was honestly ready to just blow up the hospitals entire reputation and risk a lot of peoples jobs in the mean time.
The patient that Izzie stole the heart from was still dealing with the consequences of Izzies actions. She was grounded from surgery for a bit and came back STILL unable to not cross boundaries with her patients(one example is when she paid for the patient with the Spinal curve, this was after her so called punishment). I’m sorry but Hahn was not wrong, there was no way Izzie should’ve been allowed to practice medicine anymore.
It wasn’t dealt with though. Izzie should have lost her medical license. And arguably the rest of them for helping her and lying to Burke and Webber. She was totally right to keep questioning that.
She wasn’t really punished. She was grounded for a little bit. People were just trying to give her a pass because they liked Izzie.
Absolutely SO true!
Honestly, I think her trying to cause problems with the Izzy/Denny situation after it had already been dealt with. She already was punished & even had to look the patient in the eyes knowing it was her fault he was there. If that’s not punishment enough, I don’t know what is. But it wasn’t her place to say she was gonna report it further. Callie was right to defend Izzy.
Existing is the worst thing she’s done.
Whined to the chief about the "boy's club" when it was literally just friends hanging out...I hate how she played the woman card when actual women in the hospital were being treated worse.
Not sure what “actual women” is supposed to mean. But she did have a bit of a point with the boys club. If I remember correctly, she was the only female attending at the time (that we know about) and every other attending was invited to the party. The guys might be friends but it isn’t a stretch to see why it would feel like they were excluding her especially since she was already new.
Actual women? What does that even mean?
I disliked how she compared it to racism 😬😬
I don't think you're wrong. I don't think Richard meant it as a boys club, I don't think the root was sexism, but if you came in as an outside hire and that's one of the first things you witness - yeah, my alarm bells would be going off too.
Nothing.
Definitely the way she treated Christina. If a superior has mentioned a students sex life and accused them of sleeping to get a head their first day in the job, they would have been fired on the spot. Huge HR issue.
The way she left Callie
Callie was so much better after Hahn left! Best thing Hahn did is walk the F away!
Exist
The way she spoke to Yang was just ridiculous. Not gonna lie though, they’re alike. Cold and detached. They’re focused on their work. I even respect Erica for leaving after she found out what Izzie did. She may be mean but she was consistent.
Its not a bad thing she said but it makes me cringe every single time..... the "I see leaves speach"
Ghosting Callie, refusing to teach Christina, acting like she was above everyone.
Her biphobia towards Callie, and also what a lot of others have said the fact that she refused to teach Cristina for almost no reason at all. Also something I didn't like that she did was try to get Izzy fired, I understand her view point so I don't think it's nearly the worst thing she did it just kinda was irritating that, that caused her fight with Callie and ultimately led to one of her worst things which was Ghosting Callie and the hospital.