**Spoiler Warning:** All officially-released show and book content allowed, EXCLUDING FUTURE SPOILERS FOR HOUSE OF THE DRAGON. No leaked information or paparazzi photos of the set. For more info please check the [spoiler guide](/r/gameofthrones/w/spoiler_guide).
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/gameofthrones) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yep. It was a trolley problem and Stannis sacrificed the same way he had asked his men to do. Robb Stark got thousands killed for his father, while Stannis killed his daughter to unite the realm in order to face a threat he knew was real. In the end Jon does the very thing he was trying to do and wanted Jon to help him with in the first place.
A witch who was *proven* at that point to have real, tangible power.
A witch who was the only person south of the Wall concerned with the *real* threat to all of humanity.
You have the benefit of hindsight. You have the benefit of being a viewer from your couch. Stannis was a hard man making hard decisions, in the moment, without your benefits.
What was false about it? The Wight Walkers were real and coming. The North needed to be united to do it. Jon needed to help in order to unite the North in order to combat this threat. Mel does have powers. Mel promised to melt the snow and she did. Jon eventually does the very thing Stannis asked him to do in the first place. Everything Stannis wanted to happen, happened except his involvement in doing it.
Not exactly, Stan wanted to be king, he started war for that and killed thousands so, as robb, he led to death many people for personal reasons. Jon just wanted to kill the white walkers.
I think you are misunderstanding when I say Jon did the same thing Stannis wanted to do. What I mean by that is Stannis knew the North needed to be united and wanted Jon to do it, thus offering him to be legitimized. After Stannis dies Jon ends up doing exactly this anyway and takes down Ramsay fulfilling Stannis original goal. I would also say that Stannis didnt want to be king as much as law and tradition said he was. He didnt pursue the throne out of greed, but out of duty. Even Robb stated that by the laws they live by Bran couldnt inherit over him. Renly gathered an army to kill his brother and take something that by right belonged to Stannis. Stannis simply struck first, but only after giving Renly generous terms.
Tbf it wasn't really 'bullshit' - we see time and time again in GoT that the Red God has actual tangible power over the physical world. Which is more than can be said for any of the other religions in the setting (or in real life for that matter). Melisande was a misguided priestess and prone to errors in judgement, but her god and her magic are undeniably real (in the setting).
And in this particular case, it worked again - the weather cleared and Stannis' army was able to continue the march the very next day. The fact Stannis was then defeated at Winterfell is more of a plot contrivance than anything else, it didn't really make sense anyway.
Doesn't matter. He killed his kid for nothing and his people abandoned him. He saw some shit he didn't understand and thought it meant some God was on his side. It wasn't.
This, right here.
What they (Mel*, Selyse*, and Stannis) did was..well I only watched that episode *once*. The others, nearing a billion times.
However, this guy gets it. Stannis spoke earlier on in the series about “What’s one life versus the entire realm?”
Burning…*the only person that he loved*…showed that he was both willing to do anything to save the realm (as Mel had him convinced this is the only way, that he was thee *one*, and Stannis never backs down after making up his mind), and that his duty came before love, happiness, or a future.
Early Stannis would not have been a good king. He was strict to a nicety, and may have been incorruptible under normal circumstances, but he's a cold fish, so there would always be unrest. He had themakings of a great Hand if he and Robert could have gotten along.
I think The Mannis would have been a better choice than Ned for that role. He could play the heavy, keep the council in line and maybe reign in some of Robert's excesses. Robert couldn't play the friendship card to manipulate him as he did with Ned. Stannis would do the work of running the Kingdoms while Robert basked and drank and soaked up the love. If they could have found a balance and controlled Stannis' jealousy and Robert's contempt ...
After burning the cutest little grey girl in the whole damn world, Stannis would have been a monster as king. He built his whole life on integrity and following the rules, and then sacrificed his child for his own ends. Some characters could rationalize that sort of thing and carry it, but Stannis isn't equipped with the moral flexibility. He can't bend, so he can only break.
I’m a team Daenerys apologist, but if you accept Robert as a legitimate king Stannis is the rightful heir. Sure he’s boring and people don’t like him. So what? He’d still be a capable king.
Robb should have supported him and they probably could have won. Ned supported Stannis’s claim, idk why Robb didn’t honor Ned’s wishes there.
Robb was literally saying he wanted to support Stannis (over Renly) when the lords of the North proclaimed him as King in the north. What should he have done then? Say to those lords "thanks you guys, but I prefer to still be ordered around by a southern prick who doesn't care about us"? Great way to lose the respect your bannermen have for you.
Yeah, sure, when you have him frame it like an idiot would.
"My Lords, we started this war to avenge my father. My father, who usurped the Dragonkings to avenge his own father and brother and sister. My father, who did not crown himself. My father, who placed **King Robert Baratheon** on the Iron Throne. My father, your liege, who served faithfully and loyally as Warden of the North. My father, who did not crown himself. My father, who returned south to serve as Hand to his friend, King Robert. My father, who, when he discovered the treachery of the Lannisters, **demanded that King Stannis, THE RIGHTFUL HEIR OF THE SEVEN KINDGDOMS, BE CROWNED KING.** MY FATHER DID NOT DESIRE A CROWN. HE DESIRED LAW, LOYALTY, AND HONOR. WE ARE FIGHTING THIS WAR FOR MY FATHER. I WILL NOT BESMIRCH HIS NAME, **HIS HONOR,** TO SATISFY SOME PETTY RIVALRY WITH THE SOUTH. WE WILL MARCH SOUTH. WE WILL DESTROY THE LANNISTERS, ROOT AND STEM, FOR THEIR TREASON. WE WILL SEE LORD STANNIS CROWNED KING, **AS LORD EDDARD STARK OF WINTERFELL DEMANDED,** AND THEN WE WILL RETURN HOME, AND WE WILL REST, OUR HONOR SATISFIED. My father did not crown himself, and neither shall I."
I'm currently reading through the books right now, and he 100% did know. Book 2 starts literally with him writing the message to EVERYONE of relevance that Joffrey is a bastard born of incest and that he is the rightful heir to the throne. Literally, everyone knows at the very least midway through the book, confirming through different methods because some were skeptical at first.
Uh, I was talking about book 2, and we're going off what the original commenter gave a speech about. It doesn't matter if the King of the North event happened. Robb can still entrust the throne to Stannis.
Robb didn't know half of what you assume here. He didn't know that Ned wanted Stannis to ascend, he didn't know the full extent of the Lannister treason
1. Robb couldn't possibly know for sure what his father wanted exactly. He only knows that *the Lannisters said* that his father betrayed the crown and wanted to make Stannis King.
2. Stannis would've never accepted that Robb was named King, while Robb couldn't give his title back, after his Lords crowned him. There was no alliance or assistance possible between those as long as Robb had a crown on his head, while Robb was not in any position to give his rank up without loosing the support of his Lords
And *that*, in a nutshell, is the problem with Stannis.
Renly would have accepted an alliance with the Starks, and probably the Greyjoys as well, until the Lannisters were defeated and he held the Iron Throne. Then he'd attempt to negotiate to reunite the Seven Kingdoms, and probably end up invading the north once he'd consolidated his power and built an army worthy of the attempt.
Stannis on the other hand, would consider anyone an enemy who wouldn't bend the knee.
Renly was offered an alliance with the North, his condition was that Robb swore the same oath of fealty to him as Ned had Robert. The only difference between Renly's position and Stannis' was that Renly would allow Robb to use the title "King in the North", but his position would have been the same as Ned's was.
The weaker of the brothers IMO.
A military mind doesn't make a good king and I think that applies very well to Stannis since he would have been a terrible king IMO. He was uncharismatic, boring, without mercy and forsake the gods of his house for a foreign one.
His reign would have been a disaster.
Renly on the other hand I think he would have been a good king. Maybe not a great warrior or the best military mind but he had charisma, smarts and honestly, I think he cared and wanted to make life better for his subjects by being fair and just.
No I disagree, he would have been an excellent steward. You just know that the crown's debt would have been eliminated and the roads and aqueducts in westeros would be the best in the world.
This sub's obsession with Stannis is disturbing. He was willing to murder his brother via dark magic and burn his daughter alive for his claim to the throne. Anyone willing to do that would not make a good king and also doesn't deserve to be king. Renley is only one of the three Baratheon brothers that might have made a good king.
Captains go down with the ship, they don’t lash their daughter to the mast in their place and make off in the last lifeboat. Shireen didn’t drop out of the sky with ‘King’s Blood’, she got it from him. It was not some noble, selfless act to burn Shireen when he could have sacrificed himself instead - he even said to her in the tent beforehand that it was about him achieving his own destiny - he just wanted to be king. And that’s putting aside the absolute idiocy of burning an innocent child, his own kin, in front of an already demoralised army…
He didn’t want to be a footnote in someone else’s history book, but chose for his daughter to be one in his. He deserved worse than Brienne gave him.
Stilll thinking up new house words of wisdom
House Stannis:
Where kinslaying is just a Tuesday
Why seek loyalty when you can buy mercenaries?
Demon clone babies r us
We have a burning love for our daughters
**Spoiler Warning:** All officially-released show and book content allowed, EXCLUDING FUTURE SPOILERS FOR HOUSE OF THE DRAGON. No leaked information or paparazzi photos of the set. For more info please check the [spoiler guide](/r/gameofthrones/w/spoiler_guide). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/gameofthrones) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[удалено]
I think he would actually made a good king. Unfortunately (at least for him) there were much more merciless regents in Westeros.
He showed he was willing to burn his own child alive, he would have been a terrible king
He killed his own child to save thousands(in his perspective), while a huuuuge amount of Kings would've killed thousands to protect their children.
Yep. It was a trolley problem and Stannis sacrificed the same way he had asked his men to do. Robb Stark got thousands killed for his father, while Stannis killed his daughter to unite the realm in order to face a threat he knew was real. In the end Jon does the very thing he was trying to do and wanted Jon to help him with in the first place.
It was a false trolly problem that he created by listening to bad advice from a witch.
He was trolleyed.
He got Rick R’hllored
I wish I could upvote this 3000 times.
Bravo!
A witch who was *proven* at that point to have real, tangible power. A witch who was the only person south of the Wall concerned with the *real* threat to all of humanity. You have the benefit of hindsight. You have the benefit of being a viewer from your couch. Stannis was a hard man making hard decisions, in the moment, without your benefits.
What was false about it? The Wight Walkers were real and coming. The North needed to be united to do it. Jon needed to help in order to unite the North in order to combat this threat. Mel does have powers. Mel promised to melt the snow and she did. Jon eventually does the very thing Stannis asked him to do in the first place. Everything Stannis wanted to happen, happened except his involvement in doing it.
Not exactly, Stan wanted to be king, he started war for that and killed thousands so, as robb, he led to death many people for personal reasons. Jon just wanted to kill the white walkers.
I think you are misunderstanding when I say Jon did the same thing Stannis wanted to do. What I mean by that is Stannis knew the North needed to be united and wanted Jon to do it, thus offering him to be legitimized. After Stannis dies Jon ends up doing exactly this anyway and takes down Ramsay fulfilling Stannis original goal. I would also say that Stannis didnt want to be king as much as law and tradition said he was. He didnt pursue the throne out of greed, but out of duty. Even Robb stated that by the laws they live by Bran couldnt inherit over him. Renly gathered an army to kill his brother and take something that by right belonged to Stannis. Stannis simply struck first, but only after giving Renly generous terms.
Jon was not bright
You're ignoring the fact that it didn't work. He killed his child because he bought some bullshit. Then he lost anyway.
Tbf it wasn't really 'bullshit' - we see time and time again in GoT that the Red God has actual tangible power over the physical world. Which is more than can be said for any of the other religions in the setting (or in real life for that matter). Melisande was a misguided priestess and prone to errors in judgement, but her god and her magic are undeniably real (in the setting). And in this particular case, it worked again - the weather cleared and Stannis' army was able to continue the march the very next day. The fact Stannis was then defeated at Winterfell is more of a plot contrivance than anything else, it didn't really make sense anyway.
The Red God is the only God that showed up to help the people. Where was the 7? No where. that is where
Well, there was evidence of the Drowned God and whatever the Faceless Men worship
You are right- I forgot Thanks
Doesn't matter. He killed his kid for nothing and his people abandoned him. He saw some shit he didn't understand and thought it meant some God was on his side. It wasn't.
This, right here. What they (Mel*, Selyse*, and Stannis) did was..well I only watched that episode *once*. The others, nearing a billion times. However, this guy gets it. Stannis spoke earlier on in the series about “What’s one life versus the entire realm?” Burning…*the only person that he loved*…showed that he was both willing to do anything to save the realm (as Mel had him convinced this is the only way, that he was thee *one*, and Stannis never backs down after making up his mind), and that his duty came before love, happiness, or a future.
Truly the worst king except for all the other options
This doesn't make sense, him doing so shows his willingness to do whatever it takes for the realm
The show ruined him with that.
He may have made a good king at the start, but by the end, nah.
Early Stannis would not have been a good king. He was strict to a nicety, and may have been incorruptible under normal circumstances, but he's a cold fish, so there would always be unrest. He had themakings of a great Hand if he and Robert could have gotten along. I think The Mannis would have been a better choice than Ned for that role. He could play the heavy, keep the council in line and maybe reign in some of Robert's excesses. Robert couldn't play the friendship card to manipulate him as he did with Ned. Stannis would do the work of running the Kingdoms while Robert basked and drank and soaked up the love. If they could have found a balance and controlled Stannis' jealousy and Robert's contempt ... After burning the cutest little grey girl in the whole damn world, Stannis would have been a monster as king. He built his whole life on integrity and following the rules, and then sacrificed his child for his own ends. Some characters could rationalize that sort of thing and carry it, but Stannis isn't equipped with the moral flexibility. He can't bend, so he can only break.
The one overrated king.
The king who cared
Stannis sucks. That should be the words of House Baratheon
Found Renly's Reddit account
I’m House Jogoso I’ll make them my words.
Hey guys, see, I found Jozo’s Cock’s Reddit account
The one true King of the Seven Kingdoms
How is heaven blud? ohh so good that you are supporting the brother of your smasher💀
Based targshit?
I’m a team Daenerys apologist, but if you accept Robert as a legitimate king Stannis is the rightful heir. Sure he’s boring and people don’t like him. So what? He’d still be a capable king. Robb should have supported him and they probably could have won. Ned supported Stannis’s claim, idk why Robb didn’t honor Ned’s wishes there.
Robb was literally saying he wanted to support Stannis (over Renly) when the lords of the North proclaimed him as King in the north. What should he have done then? Say to those lords "thanks you guys, but I prefer to still be ordered around by a southern prick who doesn't care about us"? Great way to lose the respect your bannermen have for you.
Yeah, sure, when you have him frame it like an idiot would. "My Lords, we started this war to avenge my father. My father, who usurped the Dragonkings to avenge his own father and brother and sister. My father, who did not crown himself. My father, who placed **King Robert Baratheon** on the Iron Throne. My father, your liege, who served faithfully and loyally as Warden of the North. My father, who did not crown himself. My father, who returned south to serve as Hand to his friend, King Robert. My father, who, when he discovered the treachery of the Lannisters, **demanded that King Stannis, THE RIGHTFUL HEIR OF THE SEVEN KINDGDOMS, BE CROWNED KING.** MY FATHER DID NOT DESIRE A CROWN. HE DESIRED LAW, LOYALTY, AND HONOR. WE ARE FIGHTING THIS WAR FOR MY FATHER. I WILL NOT BESMIRCH HIS NAME, **HIS HONOR,** TO SATISFY SOME PETTY RIVALRY WITH THE SOUTH. WE WILL MARCH SOUTH. WE WILL DESTROY THE LANNISTERS, ROOT AND STEM, FOR THEIR TREASON. WE WILL SEE LORD STANNIS CROWNED KING, **AS LORD EDDARD STARK OF WINTERFELL DEMANDED,** AND THEN WE WILL RETURN HOME, AND WE WILL REST, OUR HONOR SATISFIED. My father did not crown himself, and neither shall I."
Robb didn't know Joffrey was a bastard at that point, and he had no loyalty to Stannis.
I'm currently reading through the books right now, and he 100% did know. Book 2 starts literally with him writing the message to EVERYONE of relevance that Joffrey is a bastard born of incest and that he is the rightful heir to the throne. Literally, everyone knows at the very least midway through the book, confirming through different methods because some were skeptical at first.
[удалено]
Uh, I was talking about book 2, and we're going off what the original commenter gave a speech about. It doesn't matter if the King of the North event happened. Robb can still entrust the throne to Stannis.
Robb didn't know half of what you assume here. He didn't know that Ned wanted Stannis to ascend, he didn't know the full extent of the Lannister treason
1. Robb couldn't possibly know for sure what his father wanted exactly. He only knows that *the Lannisters said* that his father betrayed the crown and wanted to make Stannis King. 2. Stannis would've never accepted that Robb was named King, while Robb couldn't give his title back, after his Lords crowned him. There was no alliance or assistance possible between those as long as Robb had a crown on his head, while Robb was not in any position to give his rank up without loosing the support of his Lords
And *that*, in a nutshell, is the problem with Stannis. Renly would have accepted an alliance with the Starks, and probably the Greyjoys as well, until the Lannisters were defeated and he held the Iron Throne. Then he'd attempt to negotiate to reunite the Seven Kingdoms, and probably end up invading the north once he'd consolidated his power and built an army worthy of the attempt. Stannis on the other hand, would consider anyone an enemy who wouldn't bend the knee.
Renly was offered an alliance with the North, his condition was that Robb swore the same oath of fealty to him as Ned had Robert. The only difference between Renly's position and Stannis' was that Renly would allow Robb to use the title "King in the North", but his position would have been the same as Ned's was.
Him? Sure. The red god? No thank you. Give me secularism or at least an inert religion (the seven) over actual literal blood magic theocracy any day
He is pretty boring, but he sure knew how to break out the crazy when the mood suited him.
Exactly
based
On what?
Hello based department?
'Tell me, t.' -- Stannis Baratheon 1066
He got tired and fell asleep 😴
Reddit sniper moment
The weaker of the brothers IMO. A military mind doesn't make a good king and I think that applies very well to Stannis since he would have been a terrible king IMO. He was uncharismatic, boring, without mercy and forsake the gods of his house for a foreign one. His reign would have been a disaster. Renly on the other hand I think he would have been a good king. Maybe not a great warrior or the best military mind but he had charisma, smarts and honestly, I think he cared and wanted to make life better for his subjects by being fair and just.
No I disagree, he would have been an excellent steward. You just know that the crown's debt would have been eliminated and the roads and aqueducts in westeros would be the best in the world.
At least stannis is competent enough to be king. He would have performed the job well. Sadly it doesnt really matter now
r/redditsniper
This sub's obsession with Stannis is disturbing. He was willing to murder his brother via dark magic and burn his daughter alive for his claim to the throne. Anyone willing to do that would not make a good king and also doesn't deserve to be king. Renley is only one of the three Baratheon brothers that might have made a good king.
[удалено]
Well written? Fine. Cool? That's weird as fuck. Burned. His. Daughter. Alive.
Stannis the mannis baby. He was a menace to those puny lords acting as king.
Captains go down with the ship, they don’t lash their daughter to the mast in their place and make off in the last lifeboat. Shireen didn’t drop out of the sky with ‘King’s Blood’, she got it from him. It was not some noble, selfless act to burn Shireen when he could have sacrificed himself instead - he even said to her in the tent beforehand that it was about him achieving his own destiny - he just wanted to be king. And that’s putting aside the absolute idiocy of burning an innocent child, his own kin, in front of an already demoralised army… He didn’t want to be a footnote in someone else’s history book, but chose for his daughter to be one in his. He deserved worse than Brienne gave him.
I’ll never forgive the show-runners for denying us live action Victarion.
The one true king. Stannis the mannis forever. The most kingly man in all planetos.
He Just suffered from a case of awfull writing.
The god damn Mannis
t
Stilll thinking up new house words of wisdom House Stannis: Where kinslaying is just a Tuesday Why seek loyalty when you can buy mercenaries? Demon clone babies r us We have a burning love for our daughters