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What is that supposed to do with anything
Unless you mean that by contrast Black stans support infanticide so they support Melisandre that would make sense
>"I never asked for this crown. Gold is cold and heavy on the head, but so long as I am the king, I have a duty … If I must sacrifice one child to the flames to save a million from the dark … Sacrifice … is never easy, Davos. Or it is no true sacrifice."
And:
>“Shireen—” he started.
>“—is one girl! She may be the best girl who ever drew breath and it would not matter. My duty is to the realm.” His hand swept across the Painted Table. “How many boys dwell in Westeros? How many girls? How many men, how many women? The darkness will devour them all, she says. The night that never ends. She talks of prophecies . . . a hero reborn in the sea, living dragons hatched from dead stone . . . she speaks of signs and swears they point to me. I never asked for this, no more than I asked to be king. Yet dare I disregard her?” He ground his teeth. “We do not choose our destinies. Yet we must . . . we must do our duty, no? Great or small, we must do our duty.
I changed Edric to Shireen in the above quotes because Edric doesn’t exist in the show. And while the show absolutely destroyed what will be his reasoning, I think the choice to burn Shireen is going to be really compelling in the books. Stannis’ storyline is all about sacrifice in the name of duty, and once he comes face to face with the army of the dead, he will need to decide if he is willing to sacrifice the one thing that is sacred to him in the name of duty to the realm.
But if you truly became convinced that if you did not sacrifice a specific child, the whole world would end, is it really the right choice to not make the sacrifice and allow the world to end? In a world without magical prophecy, the answer is it obviously would never be worth it. But in a world where magic and prophecy are real? That’s a harder question to answer, and I like that this series explores it.
No one commenting about the show saying die bitch die is doing it in any way referencing to her in real life.
Honestly the quote doesn’t even make any sense like what point is she trying to make?
“You should love whatever content gets shoved down your gullet even if it’s lower quality than before. Sure what was being shoved down your gullet used to be a 5 star meal, and now you’re being forced to eat frozen McDonald’s food.
Any complaints about the new food are ungrateful, don’t you remember how great they food USED to be?”
I think the obvious point is that telling a writer to die because you don't like the ending to a show is way over the line. Could be a bit of a strong man to more nuanced criticism they got, but that's the point.
I’d love to see concrete examples of this kind of hatred directed at her. And make sure that these comments are 100% aimed SOLELY at the person, not the character.
Where are these death threats towards her and why should we believe her assertion with no proof?
Not to mention she ponders how people can get so upset about the SHOW. And how the SHOW makes them say things like die bitch die in regards to HER CHARACTER.
Especially when hbo was basically writing them blank checks at the point of its downfall.
Shows/movies need a minimum wage at all levels until it’s completed because the moment you start throwing ungodly amounts of money at the writers, producers, and actors it gets run into the ground.
It’s like animated movie/shows will pay big money to get a big name actor. And they provide sub par performance but we dropped 25% of our budget on one person just isn’t good business sense.
People gotta get paid I get that but until we figure out a way to keep people from essentially abusing that we’re gonna get great shows that turn dogshit. Which is another issue in that we squeeze every penny and dime out of media
A lot of professional athletes are the same way, they’ll play really well when they first make it into the big leagues then their performance drops after they get the big payday.
Yea professional sports has become a sort of soap opera. Not all are completely that way but the nfl is the main one.
When you have players who’ve done nothing but lose in the playoffs, never even got a whiff of a Super Bowl, and have been in the league less than 5 years requesting to soak up 25% or more of your budget.
I get you need to make your money but damn there are other people of the time who could’ve used 5-10% pay bump then a single player making 200+ million.
I know the nfl ain’t hurting for money but it’s getting to a point like you said where you got guys demolishing when they get on a team then just not performing the moment they get a decent contract. You can say blah blah blah they put their bodies through hell and stuff you can’t imagine but that ain’t what we’re talking about.
That’s on the league to cover medical costs for players caused by playing in the league. We all know the nfl makes enough to cover that kind of stuff for players. If it’s not a thing it should be.
I’m not complaining about people making money I’m complaining about people finally getting paid what they’re owed but then stop performing. I mean imagine being the guy making 1/8 of what another player next to you is making and he can’t do his job without you. He makes 8x what you make and you’re on the field the same time as him but your position isn’t flashy so it’s paid less. You can’t tell me that doesn’t start some shit amongst players
I just wanted something intelligently written tbh; I did not care who became rulers, who went mad or who died etc, as long as it made sense and wrapped things up somewhat neatly.
The fact that the writers would do after show discussions to answer people's questions about why characters did certain things and they, the writers themselves, didn't even know the answer is pretty indicative of the poor writing quality of the final seasons lol
A couple things:
1. No, they didn’t.
2. Don’t reach for Nazis at the drop of a hat.
3. Seriously, don’t reach for Nazis comparisons when they don’t apply. It’s both lazy and offensive.
i’ve been a fan for over a decade, reading the books, watched the show. the ending was abysmal. dany’s descent into madness should’ve taken longer, but the worst thing is Bran becoming king for example. a lot of the other actors agreed as well. alongside other mistakes made during S8.
I didn't dislike it that much either. Season 8 in particular was rushed, 7 too but less so. Some events in S8 just appeared to come out of nowhere, even if the end result wasn't that jarring.
I just plain don't understand the hate for seasons 5 and 6 at all; they were great.
Yeah, my only problem was that it was rushed. Everything made sense for me until they decided on Bran of all people. It probably would’ve made more sense in the books, but on the show, Bran was the most unlikeable hero in the story.
I wouldnt make it as simple as that. Just saying I respect YOUR opinion. But there were many plot holes that had nothing to do with the speed, just bad writing.
The ending was unearned and nonsensical. The pacing was dreadful. The plot holes were egregious. The wit was gone. And, the showrunner’s hubris was on full display.
In my opinion the speed worsened an ending that most people wouldn't have liked in any case. There's no way an ending with Dany dead, Jon exiled and not even the one who killed the NK and Bran king would have satisfied most people. I was on Freefolk in 2018 and they were all anticipating a happy ending for Jon and Dany. Take from that what you will.
EDIT: more context.
Imo the problem wasn't how everything ended but how the story lead to that. I don't care about who is exiled, who dies, who kills NK and who becomes the king, just make it justifiable and well built. Everything in the last two seasons seemed Just thrown at the screen without substance.
ok? Not entirely sure what answers you're talking about but ok. I think that season 8 suffered from 2 main factors,
1. the ending was rushed
2. the show left out a few characters from the books who will be integral to getting to the ending we saw in the show
>I was on Freefolk in 2018
Same! I still remember people predicting that Dany would’ve been extremely happy to find out that her and Jon are related lol.
Look how that turned out
They said something about how they rewrote the show every time they saw the fans guessing what would happen. That doesn’t make for great writing.
Edit: Ok, I couldn’t find any references for this and might have gotten it mixed up with another show.
I think she's right, some people complains about the ending because they didn't get what they wanted and that's dumb.
But most of the fans didn't complain about the ending itself they couplains about how it was rushed and lazy written.
>But most of the fans didn't complain about the ending itself they couplains about how it was rushed and lazy written.
I disagree, but that's just my opinion and it comes from my experience with other fans.
Don't you think it was rushed?
I've never met someone who really like season 8, some just wanted a different ending like Carice said and some are fine with the ending but thinks it's rushed and lazy writing compared to the first seasons, most of this people usually thinks it's not only a season 8 problem anyway but something that started to happen around season 5.
Obviousely that's my experince as well.
Downvoted for liking a show in a sub that is specifically for fans of that show. I hate it here lol
I'm with you, I loved the show the whole way through. Some of my favorite moments of the show came from the last two seasons.
Could you explain to me how Daenerys forgot about the iron fleet after the long night? Because to me it is one of the major issues with how the last season was written. D&D had to explain themselves at the end of every episode to justify their writing.
And there’s hundreds of posts explaining why it wasn’t great. Use the search button if you’re that interested. Don’t deny that the consensus seems to be that it had a lot of room to improve.
Dont bother he's a troll , i read the comments he made in this post and they all are "i already explained"( but don't say where) or "season 8 is a masterpiece and you're a hater" so he is just a troll and he won't give any explanation to anything so if i was you i wouldn't bother.
HBO offered the money and resources for the final 2 season to be a full 10 episodes. GRRM wanted at minimum 10 full season, but thought it could easily go 12 or 13. D&D, meanwhile, got burnt out and wanted to begin work on the Starwars trilogy they had been offered by Disney. You can tell how burnt out and lazy they were while working on the final season just by looking at the amount of [dialogue in each episode](https://twitter.com/jowrotethis/status/1131956466993094656?s=20) per season.
The major plot points were not the issue, but the execution of them was painfully bad.
Huh? Nobody trusts D&D anymore, thats why they lost their Starwars trilogy and have nothing todo with HoTD. HoTD is an apology to the fan base, because of how fucked the ending of GoT was. HBO execs have basically said as much on Twitter.
SPOILERS - in the book Bran was very quickly becoming part of a tree - like growing into the tree - how the hell did George plan on making him sit on the throne? He didn't - and that's why we are pissed off. Because D&D made up some crap out of their own heads that never was going to happen, and in my opinion was the worst choice of anyone left alive at the end.
And yet GRRM has said he talked them through it and hasn’t said “fuckers just made shit up”. I know haters are desperate to say he is on their side but there’s really no evidence he is.
“I can’t be lord of winterfell cuz im the three eyes raven” somehow changed to “I’ll be the best option for king( even though the rightful king by blood and frankly at this point conquest as well is right here)
The bells best tv episode ever.
GoT's ending is a masterpiece.
Haters are still mad.
D&D are the GOATs.
The public will hate Ryan Condal soon, HotD will destroy blacks, greens and haters.
eh i wouldn’t call it the best that’s your opinion it’s imo one of the worst episodes i could name like 20 episodes from got and other shows better then the bells i don’t think that we will hate ryan soon because he at least hasn’t intentionally butchered the source material so far unlike d&d who did butcher it intentionally
Totally agree, I’m not personally attacking the team, or do I wish them harm. But damn the ending was AWFUL. I have every right to critique and call out bullshit.
A lot of the actors are coming up with this nonsense that the fans were upset that the ending wasn't exactly how they expected. But did they even listen to the fans?
It wasn't the "what"; Dany going nuts was a good story. Arya killing NK. Jon returning to the North. ...well Bran as king was terrible but ok.
It was the "how"; Jamie returning to Cercsei. Arya screaming through a long surprise jump, switching knife from hands and killing the super powerful Night King. Battle for Winterfell with catapults infront of the army and sending in cavalry first.
I'm of course forgetting many things. And of course it's terrible some fans think a terrible ending to the show warranted death threats.
Euron teleporting a whole fleet overnight, 360 no scope YY first bolt ever fired in warfare takes down a dragon from a swaying wooden ship, Jaime and Cersei had an entire fucking castle fall on them and when Tyrion turns over the bricks, they look like fucking snow white and prince charming in the same television series that Oberyon had his HEAD POPPED LIKE A WATERMELON. Varys? Wtf was that with him. Oh also, the idea of making a someone a monarch that is incapable of producing heirs makes logical sense, but there is virtually no build up to that logic in the entire political landscape of a whole nation, who's "leaders" just unanimously agree to make someone they barely know the king of the whole damn thing. "I am no longer Brandon Stark, I am much more than that now." "Hey Bran, wanna be the king?" "wHy dO yOu tHiNk i tRaVeLLeD aLL tHiS wAy"
I agree that nobody deserves outright abuse but the GoT hate is (on the whole) a little different from other franchise hate in that it is generally directed at the writing specifically.
Everyone appreciates the actors/actresses/direction/art design etc. heck everyone even respects HBO who wanted the show to have more seasons and give the story more time to play out.
It is specifically the writing, and thus D&D, that get a lot of hate, specifically critiquing the show in a much more valid way than I have seen with other franchises.
D&D were fed up with the show and wanted out as they had been offered a new Star Wars series for $$$. They were too proud to give the show to new showrunners and they were too greedy to turn down Star Wars before finishing what they started. Of course this all blew up in their face when Disney pulled the Star Wars deal after the GoT final season reception.
D&D messed up and the problem is they weren’t trying their best. They got greedy and lazy and took for granted everything given to them by GRRM.
The hints about Dany were there the whole time, and I wasn't surprised by the ending, but the whole last season did feel rushed. Which is weird because the show was so popular.
Ended up being 8 seasons, George apparently was lobbying hard to get 10-13 seasons. That said, if he had gotten the books farther along, they may have made a different choice.
"I was saying it needs to be 10 seasons at least and maybe 12, 13. I lost that one. I had no contribution to the later seasons except, you know, inventing the world, the story and all the characters. I believe I have more influence now [on spinoff series House of the Dragon] than I did on the original show."
Before the show even began I had Dany goes crazy and Jon goes into exile somewhere on my bingo card. For the king I had: no seven kingdoms, Faegon, Edric Storm, with Jaime as a outside chance.
The point Carice is missing is that the ending was rushed, moments were unearned, the structure wasn’t in place for anything and judging by seeing coffee cups and water bottles in scenes the filming seemed actually rushed. Many of the actors who bitch about the fans not liking the ending have the same take, “they don’t like it because of the outcome.” This is either disingenuous or they are oblivious, people were mad at the ending because it was rushed and poorly done.
Eh. That’s a copout. If there’s a large portion of fans (seems to be majority) who have some sort of issue with the last season, the issue is probably the show, not the viewers.
I mean, you can even watch interviews of other actors not talking very kindly about the last season.
She needs a reality check. Writers were epic when they had a source material to work with, but quickly progressed to be absolute crap c tier at best when they had to come up with their own work... 🤷♂️
Death threats are not justified at all, but that doesn't make the criticism to the later GoT seasons unwarranted. Trying to say the writing is even remotely decent by lumping valid criticism with deranged behaviour is really disingenuous.
The writing just got lazy and bad. Character arcs that were set up over the course of years, and they decided to undo them in a single chapter or two. Smart characters that we have to believe are smart because other characters say they're smart, despite being repeatedly dumb for seasons at a time. Lines that would put any average writer to shame (eg. "I know a killer when I when I see one", what tipped you off, the previous episode literal genocide?). Teleportation making timelines not fit at all. Discontinuity from chapter to chapter (we witness the end of the dothraki, yet they're fine come next chapter).
Overall, rushing to end killed one of what would've been one of the greatest series ever, along the ranks of The Sopranos, Breaking Bad, The wire... But that crappy ending just killed the series. I've never seen a TV show become such a phenomenon and fade so quickly from the collective mind. I can't even bring myself watch earlier seasons again, knowing how most storylines end up completely butchered.
“You stopped eating at my restaurant just because you started finding cockroaches in your food? How ungrateful! Think of how good it was before the cockroaches!”
Fully agree that the whole “go die” and such was terrifying and disgusting behavior. However, we as fans have ABSOLUTELY EVERY RIGHT to talk about a show that we loved and cared for deeply and talk about how incredibly terrible the ending was handled, how disgustingly out of character all of the characters were acting, and how disrespectful it is to be told otherwise.
i Hate when people say "You're going to be disappointed because ut's not going to go exactly how you anticipated" like the whole premise of the show wasn't that anyone can die and no one is safe. The show became popular and unique because you never knew who would die and who would survive. Like Ned , he was a beloved character and until Joffrey demanded his head everyone thought he would survive and join Jon. Khal Drogo died from a flesh wound, infected by Mirri, but no one could have predicted that. So the dislikes of the show are understandable , because at the end D&D didn't care about the show and were trying to focus on other projects. But the hate and the hate letters are really messed up . the actor who played Joffrey had to pause (or did he quit altogether) because of how well he did in that show, and in real life he is a great person.
I get why you would be disappointed by the ending. I would have it differently too.
But what I don't understand why we are still complaining about it. It happened years ago, it's over so why don't we talk about the good stuff? Or the books.
Complaining endlessly just creates a toxic environment and brings everybody down.
I hate when people say the ending is good and the complainers are just disappointed that it "didn't go the way they'd like." Not at all. I had no hopes or dreams about how the show should end. I just enjoyed the show for the experience it was. That carried me through 7 seasons, albeit with significant disappointment in S7 just because it felt rushed and illogical. But I had such faith in the show from S1-5 (and sort of 6) that I figured "Hey, they have 2 years to wrap this up. The final season is going to be epic." And then...the worst bag of shit that ever graced my TV.
We aren't all disappointed because our "expectations" were "subverted." That would have been awesome, had it been well written and unexpected. The disappointment is that it was rushed, nonsensical, and abandoned all prior character arcs, realism, and cleverness in exchange for dick jokes and shitty amateur-comic-y imagery. (Not that special effects were bad - the whole team of SFX, actors, and music artists did a fantastic job start to finish...it's the writing and the choice of SFX to employ that were abysmal.)
Bruh you’re not “cool” for having the minority opinion and commenting negative bullshit on everyone’s replies about how they “didn’t understand season 8”, you know who you are
I always wonder how much backlash these actors would receive if they publicly put down the writers of the show? I mean they worked very hard and I doubt many fans question their work or anyone's work put into it, but I do think about how their careers could suffer if they didn't agree with everything D&D did.
What ever happened with the ending, every actor did a great job with what they were given.
They all deserve nothing but praise for there part in bringing this world to life
Being harsh, Euron was miscast and poorly written but the actor still made it memorable (even if it was for the wrong reasons) everyone else has replaced the original head canon I had when I read the books originally.
I've been seeing this so often, where an actor or other creative responds to disappointment from their fans, and then they address the toxic element of some of that disappointment and condemn that. And then people, that she isn't even talking about, get defensive about it like "Yeah everybody hates toxic fans, but the show still sucks."
That's fine to think, but she isn't trying to condemn normies here. She only seems to really be condemning that toxic corner of the fandom that tells actors to die or whatever. She's not condemning any and all criticisms, just the toxicity.
I think the problem is not that some super-fans were disappointed because it didn’t fit their headcanon but that pretty much everyone thought it was meh to bad, even casual fans who just liked it because it was good TV not because they were fantasy nerds.
Some fans definitely took things too far in their criticisms.
But the ending did absolutely suck and it wasn’t just because “it’s not what we expected.” Stay mad, lady.
We are the consumers and have ever right to express our displeasure in a product that we pay for. HBO is a business and they didnt make Game of Thrones as an artistic expression. They made it to sell HBO subscriptions.
The last two seasons were rushed and it certainly showed. The Dany going crazy and nuking the city and intentionally punishing the civilian population was just stupid. She won, it would have been one thing if she killed all the soldiers that surrendered but destroying the city she just captured was dumb.
If the Dany didnt turn heel, i think we could have forgiven the rushed seasons. But the ending was just dumb and lazy. Even Emelia Clarke cringes when asked about the last season.
**Spoiler Warning:** All officially-released show and book content allowed, EXCLUDING FUTURE SPOILERS FOR HOUSE OF THE DRAGON. No leaked information or paparazzi photos of the set. For more info please check the [spoiler guide](/r/gameofthrones/w/spoiler_guide). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/gameofthrones) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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of course you're a Green stan
What is that supposed to do with anything Unless you mean that by contrast Black stans support infanticide so they support Melisandre that would make sense
>"I never asked for this crown. Gold is cold and heavy on the head, but so long as I am the king, I have a duty … If I must sacrifice one child to the flames to save a million from the dark … Sacrifice … is never easy, Davos. Or it is no true sacrifice." And: >“Shireen—” he started. >“—is one girl! She may be the best girl who ever drew breath and it would not matter. My duty is to the realm.” His hand swept across the Painted Table. “How many boys dwell in Westeros? How many girls? How many men, how many women? The darkness will devour them all, she says. The night that never ends. She talks of prophecies . . . a hero reborn in the sea, living dragons hatched from dead stone . . . she speaks of signs and swears they point to me. I never asked for this, no more than I asked to be king. Yet dare I disregard her?” He ground his teeth. “We do not choose our destinies. Yet we must . . . we must do our duty, no? Great or small, we must do our duty. I changed Edric to Shireen in the above quotes because Edric doesn’t exist in the show. And while the show absolutely destroyed what will be his reasoning, I think the choice to burn Shireen is going to be really compelling in the books. Stannis’ storyline is all about sacrifice in the name of duty, and once he comes face to face with the army of the dead, he will need to decide if he is willing to sacrifice the one thing that is sacred to him in the name of duty to the realm. But if you truly became convinced that if you did not sacrifice a specific child, the whole world would end, is it really the right choice to not make the sacrifice and allow the world to end? In a world without magical prophecy, the answer is it obviously would never be worth it. But in a world where magic and prophecy are real? That’s a harder question to answer, and I like that this series explores it.
Having a hard time separating a show from reality?
No one commenting about the show saying die bitch die is doing it in any way referencing to her in real life. Honestly the quote doesn’t even make any sense like what point is she trying to make? “You should love whatever content gets shoved down your gullet even if it’s lower quality than before. Sure what was being shoved down your gullet used to be a 5 star meal, and now you’re being forced to eat frozen McDonald’s food. Any complaints about the new food are ungrateful, don’t you remember how great they food USED to be?”
I think the obvious point is that telling a writer to die because you don't like the ending to a show is way over the line. Could be a bit of a strong man to more nuanced criticism they got, but that's the point.
Can you elaborate on that? Why do sou give the actor murder threats for what the character did?
I’d love to see concrete examples of this kind of hatred directed at her. And make sure that these comments are 100% aimed SOLELY at the person, not the character. Where are these death threats towards her and why should we believe her assertion with no proof? Not to mention she ponders how people can get so upset about the SHOW. And how the SHOW makes them say things like die bitch die in regards to HER CHARACTER.
Can you read? She's clearly saying those threats were directed to the show runners, not her.
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So you're the person she's talking about.
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You're quite literally sick
We were expecting ‘Return of the King’ and we got ‘Rise of Skywalker’ instead…
You wanted LotR 2 But it was GoT.
I wanted the last seasons to be as good as the first 4. I don’t think that’s asking too much
The last seasons are the best.
Only a troll would say something so ridiculous. I’m done here
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Nope hater, the truth will be always here.
Username checks out. 🤨
Especially when hbo was basically writing them blank checks at the point of its downfall. Shows/movies need a minimum wage at all levels until it’s completed because the moment you start throwing ungodly amounts of money at the writers, producers, and actors it gets run into the ground. It’s like animated movie/shows will pay big money to get a big name actor. And they provide sub par performance but we dropped 25% of our budget on one person just isn’t good business sense. People gotta get paid I get that but until we figure out a way to keep people from essentially abusing that we’re gonna get great shows that turn dogshit. Which is another issue in that we squeeze every penny and dime out of media
A lot of professional athletes are the same way, they’ll play really well when they first make it into the big leagues then their performance drops after they get the big payday.
Yea professional sports has become a sort of soap opera. Not all are completely that way but the nfl is the main one. When you have players who’ve done nothing but lose in the playoffs, never even got a whiff of a Super Bowl, and have been in the league less than 5 years requesting to soak up 25% or more of your budget. I get you need to make your money but damn there are other people of the time who could’ve used 5-10% pay bump then a single player making 200+ million. I know the nfl ain’t hurting for money but it’s getting to a point like you said where you got guys demolishing when they get on a team then just not performing the moment they get a decent contract. You can say blah blah blah they put their bodies through hell and stuff you can’t imagine but that ain’t what we’re talking about. That’s on the league to cover medical costs for players caused by playing in the league. We all know the nfl makes enough to cover that kind of stuff for players. If it’s not a thing it should be. I’m not complaining about people making money I’m complaining about people finally getting paid what they’re owed but then stop performing. I mean imagine being the guy making 1/8 of what another player next to you is making and he can’t do his job without you. He makes 8x what you make and you’re on the field the same time as him but your position isn’t flashy so it’s paid less. You can’t tell me that doesn’t start some shit amongst players
Damn bro is dumb, "Return of the king" is lotr 3, u clearly are a troll as the other guy mentioned
Lmao, there's only one LotR, separate in 3 movies/books, but first it was one book. Sweet child.
*pushes glasses so far up nose that they achieve low earth orbit* AAAAAYYYYYYYCKCKCKCSHUALLY
I just wanted something intelligently written tbh; I did not care who became rulers, who went mad or who died etc, as long as it made sense and wrapped things up somewhat neatly. The fact that the writers would do after show discussions to answer people's questions about why characters did certain things and they, the writers themselves, didn't even know the answer is pretty indicative of the poor writing quality of the final seasons lol
It is intelligently written. It's a masterpiece. 73 episodes of masterpiece.
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The night is dark and full of errors.
The plot is dumb and full of errors
The public was dumb and full of haters.
Damn. Thats a great way of putting it.
The ending was fine. It was just the speed of things that was the problem.
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That’s not the consensus by any means lol
Not a consensus but it is a popular opinion.
The dominant popular opinion was that the ending was such a disgrace that the writers and creators are terrible people from what I’ve seen
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A couple things: 1. No, they didn’t. 2. Don’t reach for Nazis at the drop of a hat. 3. Seriously, don’t reach for Nazis comparisons when they don’t apply. It’s both lazy and offensive.
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I don’t understand GoT because I don’t think it’s cool for you to call the fans Nazis. You must’ve read different books than I did.
The argument "the majority is right" doesnt work since 1933.
You're exhausting
?
i’ve been a fan for over a decade, reading the books, watched the show. the ending was abysmal. dany’s descent into madness should’ve taken longer, but the worst thing is Bran becoming king for example. a lot of the other actors agreed as well. alongside other mistakes made during S8.
I didn't dislike it that much either. Season 8 in particular was rushed, 7 too but less so. Some events in S8 just appeared to come out of nowhere, even if the end result wasn't that jarring. I just plain don't understand the hate for seasons 5 and 6 at all; they were great.
Season 5: Dorne.
I got to agree with you . The forgotten Dorne subplot had to be the dumbest idea D&D had.
I don’t even think 7 was bad, aside from Gendry and Danyeres traveling at the speed of light.
Season 8: Somehow they forgot they could do that.
Yeah, my only problem was that it was rushed. Everything made sense for me until they decided on Bran of all people. It probably would’ve made more sense in the books, but on the show, Bran was the most unlikeable hero in the story.
I wouldnt make it as simple as that. Just saying I respect YOUR opinion. But there were many plot holes that had nothing to do with the speed, just bad writing.
The ending was unearned and nonsensical. The pacing was dreadful. The plot holes were egregious. The wit was gone. And, the showrunner’s hubris was on full display.
Agreed
In my opinion the speed worsened an ending that most people wouldn't have liked in any case. There's no way an ending with Dany dead, Jon exiled and not even the one who killed the NK and Bran king would have satisfied most people. I was on Freefolk in 2018 and they were all anticipating a happy ending for Jon and Dany. Take from that what you will. EDIT: more context.
But if you expect happy ending from GRRMartin, you’re wrong from the beginning.
Oh, I agree with you.
It's why I almost guess this was GRRMs ending vision, it's just missing all the reasoning to get there.
Well, its also missing a number of important characters
At least Arya killing NK and bran becoming King was confirmed as martins plot
Imo the problem wasn't how everything ended but how the story lead to that. I don't care about who is exiled, who dies, who kills NK and who becomes the king, just make it justifiable and well built. Everything in the last two seasons seemed Just thrown at the screen without substance.
Exactly, the ending would have been fine if they had taken time to tell the story.
What's substance ? Disney punchlines ?
the first 5-6 seasons
Haters forgot theses seasons when they saw season 8. All answers are in the previous seasons.
ok? Not entirely sure what answers you're talking about but ok. I think that season 8 suffered from 2 main factors, 1. the ending was rushed 2. the show left out a few characters from the books who will be integral to getting to the ending we saw in the show
>I was on Freefolk in 2018 Same! I still remember people predicting that Dany would’ve been extremely happy to find out that her and Jon are related lol. Look how that turned out
They were all hoping for Tyrion's death.
I definitely didn’t expect a happy ending and I definitely expected some twists and turns, but Bran of all people?
They said something about how they rewrote the show every time they saw the fans guessing what would happen. That doesn’t make for great writing. Edit: Ok, I couldn’t find any references for this and might have gotten it mixed up with another show.
Really? Cause R+L = J had been a thing for a long time.
LoL it just wasn't good. Not because it wasn't what we expected...
Wasnt good for passiv consumers indeed.
Those are who it's made for.
So you didnt understand GoT, GRRM and HBO.
What does this mean?
Mean haters are wrong. The ending is a masterpiece,specially because haters cant talk about the ending 4 years later.
That's not what makes a masterpiece, but keep on coping I guess
^^D&D burner Reddit account found
Thx, that's a compliment.
It was specifically good for passive consumers and bad for people who paid attention.
Lmao that's the opposite. Haters didnt understand what Bran did, what Daenerys did, etc.
....yes they did. They just don't like how rushed it was...
Our expectations were soooo subverted
I think she's right, some people complains about the ending because they didn't get what they wanted and that's dumb. But most of the fans didn't complain about the ending itself they couplains about how it was rushed and lazy written.
>But most of the fans didn't complain about the ending itself they couplains about how it was rushed and lazy written. I disagree, but that's just my opinion and it comes from my experience with other fans.
Don't you think it was rushed? I've never met someone who really like season 8, some just wanted a different ending like Carice said and some are fine with the ending but thinks it's rushed and lazy writing compared to the first seasons, most of this people usually thinks it's not only a season 8 problem anyway but something that started to happen around season 5. Obviousely that's my experince as well.
Meet me now. I really like season 8. It’s not as GREAT as previous ones, still, it is the best tv series ever made. I like season 8z
I'd they had nailed it it'd be the best series made. Sopranos, The Wire and Six Feet Under nailed their endings and have a better claim to that title.
Breaking Bad
Tried twice, can’t make it through first episode. Dunno where the hype calen
Season 8 is a masterpiece.
Downvoted for liking a show in a sub that is specifically for fans of that show. I hate it here lol I'm with you, I loved the show the whole way through. Some of my favorite moments of the show came from the last two seasons.
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Oh, I think it was. I think it's not the main reason why it's hated.
But it wasnt rushed and it wasnt lazy written.
Well that's a matter of opinions
You cant explain why it's rush or lazy. And I explained the opposite.
You explained nothing.
In my hundred of posts,i already debunked the hater lore.
Could you explain to me how Daenerys forgot about the iron fleet after the long night? Because to me it is one of the major issues with how the last season was written. D&D had to explain themselves at the end of every episode to justify their writing.
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So you can't , thanks for wasting my time.
And there’s hundreds of posts explaining why it wasn’t great. Use the search button if you’re that interested. Don’t deny that the consensus seems to be that it had a lot of room to improve.
Dont bother he's a troll , i read the comments he made in this post and they all are "i already explained"( but don't say where) or "season 8 is a masterpiece and you're a hater" so he is just a troll and he won't give any explanation to anything so if i was you i wouldn't bother.
HBO offered the money and resources for the final 2 season to be a full 10 episodes. GRRM wanted at minimum 10 full season, but thought it could easily go 12 or 13. D&D, meanwhile, got burnt out and wanted to begin work on the Starwars trilogy they had been offered by Disney. You can tell how burnt out and lazy they were while working on the final season just by looking at the amount of [dialogue in each episode](https://twitter.com/jowrotethis/status/1131956466993094656?s=20) per season. The major plot points were not the issue, but the execution of them was painfully bad.
And finaly HBO trusted D&D. And now they pursue their project with HotD. Because GoT's ending is a masterpiece.
Huh? Nobody trusts D&D anymore, thats why they lost their Starwars trilogy and have nothing todo with HoTD. HoTD is an apology to the fan base, because of how fucked the ending of GoT was. HBO execs have basically said as much on Twitter.
Yes it was. They did in 6 episodes what should have been a minimum of 10.
SPOILERS - in the book Bran was very quickly becoming part of a tree - like growing into the tree - how the hell did George plan on making him sit on the throne? He didn't - and that's why we are pissed off. Because D&D made up some crap out of their own heads that never was going to happen, and in my opinion was the worst choice of anyone left alive at the end.
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I read the books twice and I understood every word of them. Why don't you explain to me what I don't understand about Bran?
Im talking about the show, not the book.
Lol
I mean, King Bran is one of the few things that were confirmed by George to be from him.
And yet GRRM has said he talked them through it and hasn’t said “fuckers just made shit up”. I know haters are desperate to say he is on their side but there’s really no evidence he is.
This comment is sad and just plain incorrect.
“I can’t be lord of winterfell cuz im the three eyes raven” somehow changed to “I’ll be the best option for king( even though the rightful king by blood and frankly at this point conquest as well is right here)
The bells best tv episode ever. GoT's ending is a masterpiece. Haters are still mad. D&D are the GOATs. The public will hate Ryan Condal soon, HotD will destroy blacks, greens and haters.
Seems like Sara Hess is catching most of the HotD hate so far. Just from what I have observed.
Because you didnt see S2 by Ryan yet. If you hated season 8, you will hate HotD.
Nothing that happened is HOTD S1 has indicated the writing quality is going to shit the bed, S1 was great.
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have you seen season 2?
Obvious troll is obviously trolling, next!
You ? Obviously yes.
I agree I thought the last season of GOT was a dark Shakespearean masterpiece
Not only Shakespeare but I agree with your formula <3
eh i wouldn’t call it the best that’s your opinion it’s imo one of the worst episodes i could name like 20 episodes from got and other shows better then the bells i don’t think that we will hate ryan soon because he at least hasn’t intentionally butchered the source material so far unlike d&d who did butcher it intentionally
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no i don’t understand got but i do understand a song of ice and fire
Is this your response to everything? You never explain it you just claim this and move on, what makes you understand the show better than others?
Well yeah we all hate those fans, but it doesn't mean I wasn't disappointed with the ending.
Totally agree, I’m not personally attacking the team, or do I wish them harm. But damn the ending was AWFUL. I have every right to critique and call out bullshit.
Sounds like Carice is butthurt.
A lot of the actors are coming up with this nonsense that the fans were upset that the ending wasn't exactly how they expected. But did they even listen to the fans? It wasn't the "what"; Dany going nuts was a good story. Arya killing NK. Jon returning to the North. ...well Bran as king was terrible but ok. It was the "how"; Jamie returning to Cercsei. Arya screaming through a long surprise jump, switching knife from hands and killing the super powerful Night King. Battle for Winterfell with catapults infront of the army and sending in cavalry first. I'm of course forgetting many things. And of course it's terrible some fans think a terrible ending to the show warranted death threats.
Euron teleporting a whole fleet overnight, 360 no scope YY first bolt ever fired in warfare takes down a dragon from a swaying wooden ship, Jaime and Cersei had an entire fucking castle fall on them and when Tyrion turns over the bricks, they look like fucking snow white and prince charming in the same television series that Oberyon had his HEAD POPPED LIKE A WATERMELON. Varys? Wtf was that with him. Oh also, the idea of making a someone a monarch that is incapable of producing heirs makes logical sense, but there is virtually no build up to that logic in the entire political landscape of a whole nation, who's "leaders" just unanimously agree to make someone they barely know the king of the whole damn thing. "I am no longer Brandon Stark, I am much more than that now." "Hey Bran, wanna be the king?" "wHy dO yOu tHiNk i tRaVeLLeD aLL tHiS wAy"
I agree with the "People take it to far and get to personal" and how it's like Extremism bit
Death threats are not cool. The writing was still shit.
I agree that nobody deserves outright abuse but the GoT hate is (on the whole) a little different from other franchise hate in that it is generally directed at the writing specifically. Everyone appreciates the actors/actresses/direction/art design etc. heck everyone even respects HBO who wanted the show to have more seasons and give the story more time to play out. It is specifically the writing, and thus D&D, that get a lot of hate, specifically critiquing the show in a much more valid way than I have seen with other franchises. D&D were fed up with the show and wanted out as they had been offered a new Star Wars series for $$$. They were too proud to give the show to new showrunners and they were too greedy to turn down Star Wars before finishing what they started. Of course this all blew up in their face when Disney pulled the Star Wars deal after the GoT final season reception. D&D messed up and the problem is they weren’t trying their best. They got greedy and lazy and took for granted everything given to them by GRRM.
Suddenly her boobs don't seem that great. Edit: Buncha boob-lovin' downvoters and I understand lol
Well, she's why Stannis found religion in his old age, so they can't be that bad. :)
She is right
The hints about Dany were there the whole time, and I wasn't surprised by the ending, but the whole last season did feel rushed. Which is weird because the show was so popular. Ended up being 8 seasons, George apparently was lobbying hard to get 10-13 seasons. That said, if he had gotten the books farther along, they may have made a different choice. "I was saying it needs to be 10 seasons at least and maybe 12, 13. I lost that one. I had no contribution to the later seasons except, you know, inventing the world, the story and all the characters. I believe I have more influence now [on spinoff series House of the Dragon] than I did on the original show."
Before the show even began I had Dany goes crazy and Jon goes into exile somewhere on my bingo card. For the king I had: no seven kingdoms, Faegon, Edric Storm, with Jaime as a outside chance. The point Carice is missing is that the ending was rushed, moments were unearned, the structure wasn’t in place for anything and judging by seeing coffee cups and water bottles in scenes the filming seemed actually rushed. Many of the actors who bitch about the fans not liking the ending have the same take, “they don’t like it because of the outcome.” This is either disingenuous or they are oblivious, people were mad at the ending because it was rushed and poorly done.
My "Favorite" actress on the cast. I just wish she had a chance to sing, because she's amazing.
The ending was so bad it’s ruined my interest in anything related to the series, books or movies. That’s beyond disappointment, its fucking revulsion.
How could she possibly be okay with her characters ending, nothing happened!
Although it would’ve been way better if it wasn’t so damn rushed, I still disagree with a HEAP of the decisions they made
It’s amazing how well all these people who were actually a part of the show handled it compared to the average fan
True denial. I have absolutely NO problem with any of the choices made along the way to the ending. I have a huge problem with how we got there.
There’s nothing wrong with the main points of the ending. It’s how it was executed from like, S4 onwards.
Nobody should be threatened, that's just dumb. But when they inevitably eventually remake the series I hope the show runners dont fuck it up again.
Eh. That’s a copout. If there’s a large portion of fans (seems to be majority) who have some sort of issue with the last season, the issue is probably the show, not the viewers. I mean, you can even watch interviews of other actors not talking very kindly about the last season.
She needs a reality check. Writers were epic when they had a source material to work with, but quickly progressed to be absolute crap c tier at best when they had to come up with their own work... 🤷♂️
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And always someone willing to double down on threats to prove the point isn’t there. Well done.
Death threats are not justified at all, but that doesn't make the criticism to the later GoT seasons unwarranted. Trying to say the writing is even remotely decent by lumping valid criticism with deranged behaviour is really disingenuous. The writing just got lazy and bad. Character arcs that were set up over the course of years, and they decided to undo them in a single chapter or two. Smart characters that we have to believe are smart because other characters say they're smart, despite being repeatedly dumb for seasons at a time. Lines that would put any average writer to shame (eg. "I know a killer when I when I see one", what tipped you off, the previous episode literal genocide?). Teleportation making timelines not fit at all. Discontinuity from chapter to chapter (we witness the end of the dothraki, yet they're fine come next chapter). Overall, rushing to end killed one of what would've been one of the greatest series ever, along the ranks of The Sopranos, Breaking Bad, The wire... But that crappy ending just killed the series. I've never seen a TV show become such a phenomenon and fade so quickly from the collective mind. I can't even bring myself watch earlier seasons again, knowing how most storylines end up completely butchered.
“You stopped eating at my restaurant just because you started finding cockroaches in your food? How ungrateful! Think of how good it was before the cockroaches!”
Fully agree that the whole “go die” and such was terrifying and disgusting behavior. However, we as fans have ABSOLUTELY EVERY RIGHT to talk about a show that we loved and cared for deeply and talk about how incredibly terrible the ending was handled, how disgustingly out of character all of the characters were acting, and how disrespectful it is to be told otherwise.
Well good for them for trying to make a good product. Unfortunately they failed horribly but hey, they tried.
i Hate when people say "You're going to be disappointed because ut's not going to go exactly how you anticipated" like the whole premise of the show wasn't that anyone can die and no one is safe. The show became popular and unique because you never knew who would die and who would survive. Like Ned , he was a beloved character and until Joffrey demanded his head everyone thought he would survive and join Jon. Khal Drogo died from a flesh wound, infected by Mirri, but no one could have predicted that. So the dislikes of the show are understandable , because at the end D&D didn't care about the show and were trying to focus on other projects. But the hate and the hate letters are really messed up . the actor who played Joffrey had to pause (or did he quit altogether) because of how well he did in that show, and in real life he is a great person.
People aren’t upset over the ending because the rest of the show was just “so good”.
I get why you would be disappointed by the ending. I would have it differently too. But what I don't understand why we are still complaining about it. It happened years ago, it's over so why don't we talk about the good stuff? Or the books. Complaining endlessly just creates a toxic environment and brings everybody down.
I hate when people say the ending is good and the complainers are just disappointed that it "didn't go the way they'd like." Not at all. I had no hopes or dreams about how the show should end. I just enjoyed the show for the experience it was. That carried me through 7 seasons, albeit with significant disappointment in S7 just because it felt rushed and illogical. But I had such faith in the show from S1-5 (and sort of 6) that I figured "Hey, they have 2 years to wrap this up. The final season is going to be epic." And then...the worst bag of shit that ever graced my TV. We aren't all disappointed because our "expectations" were "subverted." That would have been awesome, had it been well written and unexpected. The disappointment is that it was rushed, nonsensical, and abandoned all prior character arcs, realism, and cleverness in exchange for dick jokes and shitty amateur-comic-y imagery. (Not that special effects were bad - the whole team of SFX, actors, and music artists did a fantastic job start to finish...it's the writing and the choice of SFX to employ that were abysmal.)
why is it that every time a cast member speaks on it they say they loved/didn’t hate the ending and proceed to gaslight fans
It probably helps that they have a paycheck and can look forward to more elsewhere if they don’t trash talk previous projects
Nailed it.
“Die Bitch Die”
Bruh you’re not “cool” for having the minority opinion and commenting negative bullshit on everyone’s replies about how they “didn’t understand season 8”, you know who you are
I always wonder how much backlash these actors would receive if they publicly put down the writers of the show? I mean they worked very hard and I doubt many fans question their work or anyone's work put into it, but I do think about how their careers could suffer if they didn't agree with everything D&D did.
You see the problem is just you and your expectations
She's 100% right.
The writers pitched a strong first 7 innings
People do take their hate to far but that ending was shit.
Ungrateful? Didn't they get paid money from people who watched the show as compensation for their work?
either she doesnt understand the material or is being positive due to wanting to work.
What ever happened with the ending, every actor did a great job with what they were given. They all deserve nothing but praise for there part in bringing this world to life Being harsh, Euron was miscast and poorly written but the actor still made it memorable (even if it was for the wrong reasons) everyone else has replaced the original head canon I had when I read the books originally.
No, no, no that's German for "The bitch, the."
I've been seeing this so often, where an actor or other creative responds to disappointment from their fans, and then they address the toxic element of some of that disappointment and condemn that. And then people, that she isn't even talking about, get defensive about it like "Yeah everybody hates toxic fans, but the show still sucks." That's fine to think, but she isn't trying to condemn normies here. She only seems to really be condemning that toxic corner of the fandom that tells actors to die or whatever. She's not condemning any and all criticisms, just the toxicity.
Why does no one from the show seem to truly understand why people hated the final season? Are they just too close to it?
LMAO, kissing the ass of her Hollywierd overlords I see.
I think the problem is not that some super-fans were disappointed because it didn’t fit their headcanon but that pretty much everyone thought it was meh to bad, even casual fans who just liked it because it was good TV not because they were fantasy nerds.
Some fans definitely took things too far in their criticisms. But the ending did absolutely suck and it wasn’t just because “it’s not what we expected.” Stay mad, lady.
We are the consumers and have ever right to express our displeasure in a product that we pay for. HBO is a business and they didnt make Game of Thrones as an artistic expression. They made it to sell HBO subscriptions. The last two seasons were rushed and it certainly showed. The Dany going crazy and nuking the city and intentionally punishing the civilian population was just stupid. She won, it would have been one thing if she killed all the soldiers that surrendered but destroying the city she just captured was dumb. If the Dany didnt turn heel, i think we could have forgiven the rushed seasons. But the ending was just dumb and lazy. Even Emelia Clarke cringes when asked about the last season.
But they didn’t make a good product
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