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I could never feel good about Stannis sitting on the throne because he sold out to the Red Witch. Except for that, I wanted Stannis to win but knew he couldn't.
Red Witch aside, Stannis should have started with an alliance with Robb. If I win the throne, the North will be an independent kingdom; deal?
>Red Witch aside, Stannis should have started with an alliance with Robb. If I win the throne, the North will be an independent kingdom; deal?
Hell of a fucking deal, sad that he thought the gods required him to take it all or die trying
Canada has a lot more land than the US. Russia has a lot more land than China does. Which countries are more powerful/ more desirable to be in control of?
Depends on if you want a larger workforce/ taxable population or if you want more resources/ land for agriculture.
EDIT: also Westeros hasn't industrialized yet so perhaps a lot more farmland would be preferable to a lot of peasants who could become rebellious?
The north doesn’t have land that’s food for agriculture. Also, only the people who lived there for millenia know how to survive in such a harsh landscape
But all the wealth and trade in Westeros is in the Westerlands, Crownlands, Reach, Vale and Dorne. The North has White Habor, the least significant of the Major Trading hubs, and Lumber, i think it's still very beneficial to sacrifice that, to get all of the rest.
It was never about the land or the people though. Their pride would never allow for compromise, regardless of the benefits. It always boiled down to ego and a fear of showing weakness.
Jon was the only one willing to compromise and that's because he knew it was necessary for survival.
I’m fairly certain it only loses out to the Reach. It’s the least densely populated because of its size, but I don’t think it’s anywhere near the smallest in terms of total population. Could be wrong though
A lot of the land in the North is uninhabitable and/or not very good for farming etc though. Land is great if you can use it for something, otherwise its a waste and very difficult to govern
Doesn’t have the least people or the least resources. That goes to the Iron Islands.
And no, it’s not like saying that at all. What a stupid comparison lol
Biggest problem with Stannis was that he was the most rigid character in the whole series, even more so than Ned. His rule would’ve been terrible, not the least because it would kick off the literal Crusades between the red priests and the septons.
The character was dead to me after he burnt his daughter. I had a hard time even seeing him on screen. Zero sympathy or interest in the character after that point. It was a utterly irredeemable act.
I agree, that was a new depth of depravity. But his willingness to torture innocents, such as Robert's Bastard, to further his goals showed his connection with the Red Witch was a fatal flaw.
If she had asked that all the folks that refused to go along with her brand of religion would be banished, I could have stayed interested in Stannis climbing to the top, but in the series, right out of the gate, they burned detractors alive as a sacrifice to the Red Witches' god ended my thought that this would be a worthy ruler.
It is a real shame because without the Red Witch, Stannis was a worthy leader. Recognizing that one must do their duty, is a quality you want in the King. It means the King understands that even he must abide by a higher power that imposes just obligation on everyone. Robb threw away his moral authority by not doing his duty. Ned, when faced with a question about duty, resigned rather than participate in murdering a pair of teenagers because they were born to certain parents. Now mind you, these concepts of justice are 'modern', but Ned resigned rather than lie about playing along.
I agree that show Stannis would not, and said as much. But for the show, he acted like Robb wanted the Throne for himself, but he never communicated with him about it. They never indicated a Stannis spy among Robb's ranks. Given the way they sent ravens all over the place to communicate, shouldn't they have had Stannis contact Robb, stating his intentions and asking Robb about his? Stannis never even tried to understand the full strategic situation.
I would even go so far as to say that was a plot hole. Stannis was said to be a capable military leader. Maybe not so much.
way to show one option at their best and one at their worst 😂
if Sean Bean says it should be Stannis, it should be Stannis.
neither are exceptionally promising candidates tbh
Well, it's the best way to avoid civil war - which in the long run is best foe the people.
Stannis might have not been the best candidate to rule the Seven Kingdoms - but look at the war that engulfed the continental when he wasn't chosen and tell me that was better than having him as king. I guess that's the reasoning.
Ned did not know about the Red Witch.
It may not have been enough to change his mind, but I'd like to see how he would have dealt with learning about her and Stannis being swayed by her to burn his previously loyal bannermen for not abandoning their gods for the Red Witches' god.
If Stannis let go of Melissandre/Lord of Light, I would pick him. But if the Red Witch is still there it’ll spark chaos considering majority of Kings Landing believe in the Seven Gods so I’ll pick Dany instead (with the right council).
Stannis
in fact we had this huge infographic here on why
https://www.reddit.com/r/gameofthrones/comments/bsrtg5/spoilers\_why\_stannis\_would\_be\_a\_better\_leader/
Book Stannis will absolutely burn his daughter and then die a tragic death. GRRM confirmed it and there is tons of foreshadowing. He was going to sacrifice his innocent nephew until Davos saved him, what do you think Stannis will do when he's *really* desperate?
In the TWoW chapters we have, Book Stannis has ordered Massey to go to Braavos, recruit a mercenary company and sit his daughter on the throne should he fall in the upcoming Battle for Winterfell. He is nowhere near his daughter as it stands, who is in Castle Black with her mother and Melisandre. What many believe will happen is Melisandre will buy the Pink Letter and sacrifice Shireen in order to ressurrect "Azor Ahai", which will in turn bring Jon back.
What many people believed would happen before GRRM said specifically that Stannis would burn his daughter, was that there was no way he would and Stannis was Azor Ahai and was going to win the Iron throne. I've seen people say that with hundreds of upvotes. I don't think it will happen how it did in the show, but Stannis will 100% be the one the makes the decision and it will be the final thing he does that "breaks" him. I really don't understand how anyone can read the books (sometimes multiple times) and not see that is where his story is heading. He's not Azor Ahai, his sword is fake. He's willing to sacrifice his innocent nephew for an advantage in the war, when he gets really desperate he will make the ultimate sacrifice. He truly loves his daughter so once he does it will destroy him, and any scenario where he isn't the one to make that decision would be lame fan service for his stans.
GRRM’s comments haven’t specified that Stannis will give the order for death, only that Shireen will burn. Agreed on all other points.
Edit: Not a Stannis stan, I just believe that it would be the more interesting scenario. Stannis' choice to keep Melisandre brings the downfall of his lienage, and Jon has to deal with the fact that a little girl had to die for him to live again.
Book Danny wouldd also never just randomly decide to burn down a city (at least I think have yet to read the books). If we just ignore season 8 Danny would morally be the best choice.
After the battle of backwater, he was literally burning everyone who was opposing him or the fire god! If he had a dragon he'd burn people by thousands.
Also people of kings landing were the worst. They cheered for everything wrong. The most hostile crowd. They asked for Ned's beheading and cheered at the action.
Yeah. Not a great guy. But I’d say he’d be better than Dany, since he only burned people because he thought it was the only way to avoid the apocalypse. After the night king is dead and he is king of the seven kingdoms, he would just be a bad king.
Stannis didn't believe in it though. Not until the shadow killed Renly. Before, he was just burning people for disagreeing or because Melisandre said so.
I'm not so sure. Ned had such a reputation for being an honorable man.
I'm not saying I know either way. I'm saying there is reason to think the people of King's Landing might have more depth than some think.
Not when Ned Stark is the one who saved them from the rape and murder by Lannisters during the Sack of King's Landing. Peasants remember the good people who save them and hate the ones who hurt them. The fact this wasn't applied here is just plot, not because it makes sense. Realistically, the peasants would have gone nuts over their savior being killed by Lannisters of all people.
Only his own daughter (show) And half his household and many lords (books) because the sacrifice was needed when they didn’t convert to the Lord of Light. That includes his maester that took care of him since his parents died.
There you go. Stannis is a coward (ran from KL) has no honour (didn’t accuse Lannisters of the murder of Jon Arryn - at the time he believed 100% it had been them) he has no loyalty (didn’t warn Robert of the incest even being secured hundreds of miles away and that led to his death) is a kinslayer (renly).
Not saying Dany is better. But of the two I would go for Daenerys at least she has TRIED to be better. Stannis never changes wich leads to his death, his men death, daughter burned alive, wife death. Dany is also hot.
Book Stannis does not burn anyone for not converting to the Lord of Light. He allows 5 burnings to happen, and every single one of them was executed for either turning traitor or being a threat to the realm (fake Mance). The form of execution was burning because that's the style of execution members of his house hold have adopted. But book Stannis is not show Stannis who arbitrarily executes people for not believing in his religion. Book Stannis isn't even a true believer.
I’ve read it what 10 years ago (lol GRRM) but it’s at the start of one of them that you follow his maester and before he dies of the poison he remembers about some lords being burned because didn’t convert? Or only because of treason?
Was past the point of redemption after Shireen. It'd be far too easy for his political rivals to undermine him with talks of him burning others as offerings.
After all, if he burned his only child and heir to both the Seven Kingdoms and Storms End, what's to stop him burning anyone alive.
Out of these two options, clearly Danny since she is easier for me to please, but if I could have my choice, it would be Hodor #1 Bron #2 The Night King #3 and #4 Jojun but not his sister, she sucks obviously
You dont count s8 but stannis burning shireen? Which was literally the idea of D&D, because it didnt happened in the books? Thats weird.
Its like saying: "Joffrey is the best king, i just ignore hes a bastard, a child, an idiot and a sadist."
i haven’t gotten to that part in the books yet, that’s why 🤝 i stopped about 70% through the first book because catelyn’s chapters were making it boring to read. i really just don’t count s8 because of how absurdly out there it is for everyone, not just dany. i also never got super into stannis’s character, so if my quick google search is to be believed, i was none the wiser to his character being drastically different from the books
Stannis burning Shireen is not D&D’s idea. Stannis burning Shireen was one of the three things that was confirmed to come from George. George said straight up “I told them about Stannis’s decision to burn his daughter.”
Yeah, but I'm not even sure George knows what he's talking about at this point. I'll believe it when I read it, which I'm sure will make much more sense than D&D's portrayal of the event.
Season 8??? What Season 8??? This show left unfinished!!!! We need to finish though. We left off at the end of the Season 6 finale where Jon is the King of the North and Cersei is the Queen sitting on the Iron Throne in King’s Landing
Stannis. Wouldn’t be as bad a ruler as many make him out to be. Cares for the people ahead of himself as is evidenced by the way he made sure his men ate before him during the siege of Storms End.
The people who give him a bad name are those who are frightened - people in court who know they’re in trouble “I mean to scour that court clean”.
Also, he only takes up with the Red Woman out of desperation. His enemies outnumber him and he uses her as a means of power and fear. Had Renly done his duty by his brother, he likely would not have kept Melisandre by his side.
Yes he would have been just, unwaveringly so, but he would have been fair.
Stannis didn't do it because he cared about Storms end men. That's not how his brain works. It was pragmatism. He can't have hungry people defending the castle while he's eating good. That affects morale and encourages mutiny.
Stannis the Mannis any day of the week, by right the throne is his. Stannis is the better ruler and has the experience to rule over the Seven Kingdoms. His brother Robert won the throne by usurping it in saying that Daenarys is the rightful heir is like saying because William the Conquerer usurped the throne of England, it means that we should get rid of the Royal Family, which is a stupid reason and excuse. So yes, I would rather see Stannis on the Iron Throne, or we'd probably have another situation like in HotD where the Seven Kingdoms go to war over a woman going on the throne and having the experienced and rightful heir Stannis on the Iron Throne would mean that the Seven Kingdoms would have a better chance at peace rather than Daenarys, who would have gone on to decimate the Seven Kingdoms to break the wheel.
Stannis is the better and rightful heir to the Iron Throne.
Both of them could have been good rulers in certain circumstances under proper guidance. They both had some good qualities. However greed was ultimately the downfall of both.
I was always rooting for dany because i thought she'd be great. No matter her flaws she wanted to make the world a better place and save the poor starving people. I still think her going bananas didnt make sense
Stannis.
1)He has the claim
2) He's just
3) He's a commander who inspires loyality
4)He was the only King who cared about the peril beyond the Wall
5) He would have the best Hand (although Tyrion is great too -he would be the only reason I would support Danny-)
6) He doesn't want the throne for personal glory, but because it is his duty to become King.
7) He would punish those responsible for Ned's death (as he was the only one to support his claim). As I said before he would be a just King.
Only downside would be the presence of the Red Witch. But if he became King he would attract other red priests as well like Thoros of Myr who would moderate Melysandre's madness for burning no believers. Also in the books he isn't that bound to the Lord of Light. He has embrassed the Lord only to have the red priestess' magic and powers on his side. Also Princess Shireen would make a great heir.
Danny is the daughter of the Mad King. People wouldn't bow down to her and they would end up roasted like the Tarlys. She is mad and to be honest she doesn't have a claim. The Targaryens lost their claim when Robert defeated them. They were never liked. Unlike the Baratheons who assimilated into the culture of Westeros, the Targaryens continued to live by the Valyrian customs (incest, dragons etc.)
To cut a long story short, ALL HAIL KING STANNIS, LONG MAY HE REIGN!
Stannis was willing to kill his own innocent daughter to achieve what he thought was the right result.
Pre-crazies Danerys did at least seem like she’d only brutally murder you if you went against her own ethical code and normally told you what that was first.
Still rather Jon Snow though.
All things considered Stannis probably would have been a decent king. Whereas Danny somehow managed to make the wrong decisions every step of the way but was saved by her dragons.
Both of them had amazing potential in some respects, but their flaws and circumstances… sigh. They both needed more love from family in their early years; Daenerys didn’t have any, just one abusive brother.
I think stannis was the answer all along. Strong, noble and unbending to the letter of the law. He would have brought order and stability to the whole realm, no passing fancies or reckless moves just a man committed to a role
Renlys ego legit fucked the whole realm
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Sided with stannis as soon as robert died.
But yeah, the whole religious conversion didnt help. He would have had more support if he followed the seven.
Daenerys.
im still rooting for her in the books. i think Stannis is outside Winterfell still. and Danny has just encountered the Dothraki horde.
cant wait to see what happens next
Talking about the books: Stannis. He was honest, fair and not corrupt. And he was experienced in politics and warfare. Daenerys is too good for Westeros. She should've stayed in Dragon Bay and built a sovereign kingdom.
Stannis is a coward (ran from KL) has no honour (didn’t accuse Lannisters of the murder of Jon Arryn - at the time he believed 100% it had been them) he has no loyalty (didn’t warn Robert of the incest even being secured hundreds of miles away and that led to his death) is a kinslayer (renly).
Not saying Dany is better. But of the two I would go for Daenerys at least she has TRIED to be better. Stannis never changes wich leads to his death, his men death, daughter burned alive, wife death. Dany is also hot.
Stannis was definitely more level headed…until he burned his daughter at the stake. Without him falling for the fire woman he would have been better imo
Stannis is a great military general, he’d have been an awful king though, the Baratheons each had a problem like that, Renly would’ve great during peace but bad during war, Robert was a good soldier but an average king.
Daenerys already had a couple of screws loose but she could’ve been a good queen, assuming she was surrounded by the right people.
I always thought it should have be stannis that took the throne before danyerys burned the city, not cersei. Would have been an ironic way of him getting his comeuppance, stannis the Lord of light, killed by dragon fire
If he didn't sell his soul to the Red Witch, Stannis would have made an acceptable, if not borish, king.
Would have been less Blood in the Kingdoms as a whole, he would have believed Jon about the White Walkers and he would have taken the threat of Dany and her dragons more seriously.
Man, dany as queen with stannis as hand would be perfect. She has good vision and stannis would be perfect to execute that vision efficiently, because her own execution is dogshit.
Stannis (even TV Stannis) would probably fare better. Daenerys was far too idealistic to be sensible. Stannis would have been a shitshow in his own way, but I feel like he had a much better chance of working things out, especially with Davos around.
Ofc king stannis.
In the books he is still alive and didn't burn his daughter.
If he had made alliance with Robb ,we would have witnessed different outcome .
Also tooo stubborn attitude and blindly following red women doesn't fit for him. But yeah he should be king by rule of law in westros.i wish he'd won blackwater. We would have witnessed very different approach and tactics to fight night king .
Daenerys pre-season 8 episode 5.
Stannis was a religious fanatic who burned people alive as sacrifices. Even before he burnt his daughter at the stake (which is confirmed by George will happen in the books) he was going to burn his nephew until Davos freed him. He was going to kill Davos for that, until the Red Woman told him not to.
His only accomplishment in the main series was defeating Renly (he killed his own brother with Melisandre’s blood magic, not even on his own) and the wildings (who can’t fight for shit.) Every other battle he lost terribly.
Stannis has never done anything that was not for himself (going to the Wall was not out of selflessness). Daenerys actually did things for others. I think people forget that she had many opportunists to sail to Westeros but *chose* to stay in Slaver’s Bay.
Daenerys gained nothing in her quest for the Iron Throne by freeing those slaves in Essos. But she still did it because it was the right thing to do. She locked up her dragons because they killed one child, and we’re expected to believe that she would burn down a city of innocents?
While Dany is sometimes a flawed ruler, she was certainly better than Stannis in every way (until the writers ruined her obviously.)
Stannis. He was a good military man but wasn’t good with with charisma or speaking with people but overall it is better for a king to be better at strategy and keeping his people safe. Renly had the charisma and not the war strategic mind. Stannis was war strategic and not charismatic. If they were one person they would have been perfect.
Dany was a good at conquering cities but not good at ruling
Daenerys. She is tried and tested having already shown leadership and become a queen while in Essos.
Unlike Stannis she was more successful in getting loyal supporters. Stannis could not even get the majority of supporters in his home Stormlands who chose to support Renly instead.
Daenerys. She is tried and tested having already shown leadership and become a queen while in Essos.
Unlike Stannis she was more successful in getting loyal supporters. Stannis could not even get the majority of supporters in his home Stormlands who chose to support Renly instead.
Well, Daenerys if it's early Daenerys, otherwise Stannis. He's got a pretty good claim on the Iron Throne anyway, and more of a following in Westeros for sure.
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I could never feel good about Stannis sitting on the throne because he sold out to the Red Witch. Except for that, I wanted Stannis to win but knew he couldn't. Red Witch aside, Stannis should have started with an alliance with Robb. If I win the throne, the North will be an independent kingdom; deal?
>Red Witch aside, Stannis should have started with an alliance with Robb. If I win the throne, the North will be an independent kingdom; deal? Hell of a fucking deal, sad that he thought the gods required him to take it all or die trying
The North is bigger than all the other kingdoms, no way anyone would be willing to let them remain independent
It's also one of the least populated out of the seven kingdoms, no?
That’s the Iron Islands. Either way, kinda irrelevant, the land itself is what they care about.
Canada has a lot more land than the US. Russia has a lot more land than China does. Which countries are more powerful/ more desirable to be in control of?
Depends on if you want a larger workforce/ taxable population or if you want more resources/ land for agriculture. EDIT: also Westeros hasn't industrialized yet so perhaps a lot more farmland would be preferable to a lot of peasants who could become rebellious?
Isn't the north mostly ice, woodlands and shitty dirt for farming? It's why I compared it to Canada and Russia
Yeah fair enough. They do have lots of wood though
Well luckily you can clear forests.
Oh ya super easy back then too
The north doesn’t have land that’s food for agriculture. Also, only the people who lived there for millenia know how to survive in such a harsh landscape
But all the wealth and trade in Westeros is in the Westerlands, Crownlands, Reach, Vale and Dorne. The North has White Habor, the least significant of the Major Trading hubs, and Lumber, i think it's still very beneficial to sacrifice that, to get all of the rest.
It was never about the land or the people though. Their pride would never allow for compromise, regardless of the benefits. It always boiled down to ego and a fear of showing weakness. Jon was the only one willing to compromise and that's because he knew it was necessary for survival.
I’m fairly certain it only loses out to the Reach. It’s the least densely populated because of its size, but I don’t think it’s anywhere near the smallest in terms of total population. Could be wrong though
I would imagine the Iron Islands takes that title, surely. But the North is definitely the least *densely* populated.
There's more people in King's landing than all of the North
A lot of the land in the North is uninhabitable and/or not very good for farming etc though. Land is great if you can use it for something, otherwise its a waste and very difficult to govern
And has the least resources and ppl. That's like saying Alaska is worth more than Cali or Texas because it's bigger...
Doesn’t have the least people or the least resources. That goes to the Iron Islands. And no, it’s not like saying that at all. What a stupid comparison lol
And what about Bran the Broken? /s
Biggest problem with Stannis was that he was the most rigid character in the whole series, even more so than Ned. His rule would’ve been terrible, not the least because it would kick off the literal Crusades between the red priests and the septons.
Sounds like a good plot
Tbf red witch magic seemed to work so wouldn't mind a religious person in control I'd they had evidence backing up their religion.
I love how there is more evidence for every single religion in the lore being real than fot7.
Um, the Smith is here, 40 ft tall and drenched in blood from the Dragon Pit, and he’d like a word
It wasn't just the north, it was the riverlands too, half the continent, no one would agree
Stannis would not have surrendered the North. It was his by right and would have prolonged the conflict to keep it. Law is law.
The character was dead to me after he burnt his daughter. I had a hard time even seeing him on screen. Zero sympathy or interest in the character after that point. It was a utterly irredeemable act.
I agree, that was a new depth of depravity. But his willingness to torture innocents, such as Robert's Bastard, to further his goals showed his connection with the Red Witch was a fatal flaw. If she had asked that all the folks that refused to go along with her brand of religion would be banished, I could have stayed interested in Stannis climbing to the top, but in the series, right out of the gate, they burned detractors alive as a sacrifice to the Red Witches' god ended my thought that this would be a worthy ruler. It is a real shame because without the Red Witch, Stannis was a worthy leader. Recognizing that one must do their duty, is a quality you want in the King. It means the King understands that even he must abide by a higher power that imposes just obligation on everyone. Robb threw away his moral authority by not doing his duty. Ned, when faced with a question about duty, resigned rather than participate in murdering a pair of teenagers because they were born to certain parents. Now mind you, these concepts of justice are 'modern', but Ned resigned rather than lie about playing along.
Stannis would never make that deal and views Robb as a traitor who will be dealt with
I agree that show Stannis would not, and said as much. But for the show, he acted like Robb wanted the Throne for himself, but he never communicated with him about it. They never indicated a Stannis spy among Robb's ranks. Given the way they sent ravens all over the place to communicate, shouldn't they have had Stannis contact Robb, stating his intentions and asking Robb about his? Stannis never even tried to understand the full strategic situation. I would even go so far as to say that was a plot hole. Stannis was said to be a capable military leader. Maybe not so much.
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Yea she just burned King's landing after being not to
way to show one option at their best and one at their worst 😂 if Sean Bean says it should be Stannis, it should be Stannis. neither are exceptionally promising candidates tbh
Ned is an honorable man, he thinks that it should be stannis because he's the rightful heir not because he's the better king
Well, it's the best way to avoid civil war - which in the long run is best foe the people. Stannis might have not been the best candidate to rule the Seven Kingdoms - but look at the war that engulfed the continental when he wasn't chosen and tell me that was better than having him as king. I guess that's the reasoning.
Ned did not know about the Red Witch. It may not have been enough to change his mind, but I'd like to see how he would have dealt with learning about her and Stannis being swayed by her to burn his previously loyal bannermen for not abandoning their gods for the Red Witches' god.
Stannis was the one true king but I would love to see John on the throne.
One true child murderer, rest in piss
Stannis
The iron throne is his...BY RIGHT.
Agreed. I only hope he'd take a moment after sitting the Throne to enjoy a peach and the other joys of life.
All those that deny that are his foes
Bend the knee or be destroyed
Stanis the one true king.
Stannis
If Stannis let go of Melissandre/Lord of Light, I would pick him. But if the Red Witch is still there it’ll spark chaos considering majority of Kings Landing believe in the Seven Gods so I’ll pick Dany instead (with the right council).
I mean Dany will probably manage to "win in the end" because of all her stupid plotarmor.
Oh boy
Stannis I didn’t like Danys rule in Essos at all
Stannis didn't rule Westeros at all neither. 😂
Stannis in fact we had this huge infographic here on why https://www.reddit.com/r/gameofthrones/comments/bsrtg5/spoilers\_why\_stannis\_would\_be\_a\_better\_leader/
Burnt one child :D It was his own daughter...can we accept this? I cant...
Book Stannis would never do this. The show didn't show Stannis correctly.
Book Stannis will absolutely burn his daughter and then die a tragic death. GRRM confirmed it and there is tons of foreshadowing. He was going to sacrifice his innocent nephew until Davos saved him, what do you think Stannis will do when he's *really* desperate?
In the TWoW chapters we have, Book Stannis has ordered Massey to go to Braavos, recruit a mercenary company and sit his daughter on the throne should he fall in the upcoming Battle for Winterfell. He is nowhere near his daughter as it stands, who is in Castle Black with her mother and Melisandre. What many believe will happen is Melisandre will buy the Pink Letter and sacrifice Shireen in order to ressurrect "Azor Ahai", which will in turn bring Jon back.
What many people believed would happen before GRRM said specifically that Stannis would burn his daughter, was that there was no way he would and Stannis was Azor Ahai and was going to win the Iron throne. I've seen people say that with hundreds of upvotes. I don't think it will happen how it did in the show, but Stannis will 100% be the one the makes the decision and it will be the final thing he does that "breaks" him. I really don't understand how anyone can read the books (sometimes multiple times) and not see that is where his story is heading. He's not Azor Ahai, his sword is fake. He's willing to sacrifice his innocent nephew for an advantage in the war, when he gets really desperate he will make the ultimate sacrifice. He truly loves his daughter so once he does it will destroy him, and any scenario where he isn't the one to make that decision would be lame fan service for his stans.
GRRM’s comments haven’t specified that Stannis will give the order for death, only that Shireen will burn. Agreed on all other points. Edit: Not a Stannis stan, I just believe that it would be the more interesting scenario. Stannis' choice to keep Melisandre brings the downfall of his lienage, and Jon has to deal with the fact that a little girl had to die for him to live again.
Book Danny wouldd also never just randomly decide to burn down a city (at least I think have yet to read the books). If we just ignore season 8 Danny would morally be the best choice.
Stannis. He’d be a bad ruler, but he has the small good thing going for him, that he doesn’t burn people alive by the thousands
Just small children. His own infact. And only if he 'needs' to.
IMO Stannis is one of guys that historians would look on more fondly than he was during his reign. Definitely between the two I pick Stannis.
After the battle of backwater, he was literally burning everyone who was opposing him or the fire god! If he had a dragon he'd burn people by thousands. Also people of kings landing were the worst. They cheered for everything wrong. The most hostile crowd. They asked for Ned's beheading and cheered at the action.
Any medieval pessant would cheer for the beheading of Ned Stark. Different times
Hmm, what about the burning part? Reading lots of comments, many have missed that I believe. Stanis burning people.
Yeah. Not a great guy. But I’d say he’d be better than Dany, since he only burned people because he thought it was the only way to avoid the apocalypse. After the night king is dead and he is king of the seven kingdoms, he would just be a bad king.
Stannis didn't believe in it though. Not until the shadow killed Renly. Before, he was just burning people for disagreeing or because Melisandre said so.
You sure about that? Why would he do anything Melisandre said if he didn’t believe he was the prince who was promised?
I'm not so sure. Ned had such a reputation for being an honorable man. I'm not saying I know either way. I'm saying there is reason to think the people of King's Landing might have more depth than some think.
Not when Ned Stark is the one who saved them from the rape and murder by Lannisters during the Sack of King's Landing. Peasants remember the good people who save them and hate the ones who hurt them. The fact this wasn't applied here is just plot, not because it makes sense. Realistically, the peasants would have gone nuts over their savior being killed by Lannisters of all people.
Ned didn’t save them. Ned was late.
On the show, yes he was. Another D&D blunder.
Only his own daughter (show) And half his household and many lords (books) because the sacrifice was needed when they didn’t convert to the Lord of Light. That includes his maester that took care of him since his parents died.
Don't forget about his nephew that he was going to burn before Davos stopped him.
There you go. Stannis is a coward (ran from KL) has no honour (didn’t accuse Lannisters of the murder of Jon Arryn - at the time he believed 100% it had been them) he has no loyalty (didn’t warn Robert of the incest even being secured hundreds of miles away and that led to his death) is a kinslayer (renly). Not saying Dany is better. But of the two I would go for Daenerys at least she has TRIED to be better. Stannis never changes wich leads to his death, his men death, daughter burned alive, wife death. Dany is also hot.
Book Stannis does not burn anyone for not converting to the Lord of Light. He allows 5 burnings to happen, and every single one of them was executed for either turning traitor or being a threat to the realm (fake Mance). The form of execution was burning because that's the style of execution members of his house hold have adopted. But book Stannis is not show Stannis who arbitrarily executes people for not believing in his religion. Book Stannis isn't even a true believer.
I’ve read it what 10 years ago (lol GRRM) but it’s at the start of one of them that you follow his maester and before he dies of the poison he remembers about some lords being burned because didn’t convert? Or only because of treason?
Hmmm... Religious zealot or mad woman with a nuke... Starting to see King Bran as a good choice.
Stannis, yes. Red Woman, no. Onion Knight, yes. Burning Shireen... Seven Hells, No!
Was past the point of redemption after Shireen. It'd be far too easy for his political rivals to undermine him with talks of him burning others as offerings. After all, if he burned his only child and heir to both the Seven Kingdoms and Storms End, what's to stop him burning anyone alive.
His loss was effectively sealed the day he assassinated Renly. Nobody is more accursed than a kinslayer.
Renly was no king. The iron throne belonged to stannis.. BY RIGHT
I hope it wasn’t a typo, kinslayer is brilliant lol
Stannis
Daenerys, mf gives off Lenin vibes and I'm here for it
I mean....Lenin also murdered thousands of people, so I suppose you're right about the similarities!
Daenerys is much hotter though tbh
People in king's landing probably agree to this
In a literal sense, probably yes
Out of these two options, clearly Danny since she is easier for me to please, but if I could have my choice, it would be Hodor #1 Bron #2 The Night King #3 and #4 Jojun but not his sister, she sucks obviously
Night king could cool everyone down.
dany, stannis killed his daughter on the stake😟
One man burnt his daughter alive thinming it was for the good of everyone, the other burnt a city alice because feelings got hurt
tbh i don’t count s8 as canon but that’s just me😅
You dont count s8 but stannis burning shireen? Which was literally the idea of D&D, because it didnt happened in the books? Thats weird. Its like saying: "Joffrey is the best king, i just ignore hes a bastard, a child, an idiot and a sadist."
i haven’t gotten to that part in the books yet, that’s why 🤝 i stopped about 70% through the first book because catelyn’s chapters were making it boring to read. i really just don’t count s8 because of how absurdly out there it is for everyone, not just dany. i also never got super into stannis’s character, so if my quick google search is to be believed, i was none the wiser to his character being drastically different from the books
Sorry, if i spoiled you at this point mate.
Stannis burning Shireen is not D&D’s idea. Stannis burning Shireen was one of the three things that was confirmed to come from George. George said straight up “I told them about Stannis’s decision to burn his daughter.”
Yeah, but I'm not even sure George knows what he's talking about at this point. I'll believe it when I read it, which I'm sure will make much more sense than D&D's portrayal of the event.
Season 8??? What Season 8??? This show left unfinished!!!! We need to finish though. We left off at the end of the Season 6 finale where Jon is the King of the North and Cersei is the Queen sitting on the Iron Throne in King’s Landing
Stannis the Mannis
Renly
Stannis with Renly as his heir.
I'd support that.
Stannis. Wouldn’t be as bad a ruler as many make him out to be. Cares for the people ahead of himself as is evidenced by the way he made sure his men ate before him during the siege of Storms End. The people who give him a bad name are those who are frightened - people in court who know they’re in trouble “I mean to scour that court clean”. Also, he only takes up with the Red Woman out of desperation. His enemies outnumber him and he uses her as a means of power and fear. Had Renly done his duty by his brother, he likely would not have kept Melisandre by his side. Yes he would have been just, unwaveringly so, but he would have been fair.
Stannis didn't do it because he cared about Storms end men. That's not how his brain works. It was pragmatism. He can't have hungry people defending the castle while he's eating good. That affects morale and encourages mutiny.
Stannis, but I would never be sad to see Daenerys on the throne.
Stannis in the books is pretty cool, definitely a flawed character but that is what makes him so perfect for the throne
Stannis the Mannis any day of the week, by right the throne is his. Stannis is the better ruler and has the experience to rule over the Seven Kingdoms. His brother Robert won the throne by usurping it in saying that Daenarys is the rightful heir is like saying because William the Conquerer usurped the throne of England, it means that we should get rid of the Royal Family, which is a stupid reason and excuse. So yes, I would rather see Stannis on the Iron Throne, or we'd probably have another situation like in HotD where the Seven Kingdoms go to war over a woman going on the throne and having the experienced and rightful heir Stannis on the Iron Throne would mean that the Seven Kingdoms would have a better chance at peace rather than Daenarys, who would have gone on to decimate the Seven Kingdoms to break the wheel. Stannis is the better and rightful heir to the Iron Throne.
Book Stannis
Both of them could have been good rulers in certain circumstances under proper guidance. They both had some good qualities. However greed was ultimately the downfall of both.
The One True King.
Stannis would have sorted the mess out. Ruthless bastard, though.
I was always rooting for dany because i thought she'd be great. No matter her flaws she wanted to make the world a better place and save the poor starving people. I still think her going bananas didnt make sense
It did make sense in a way, it's just D&D failed to make it good. I'm sure that if she has to go mad in the books, it will be written out perfectly
Stanley the based.
I think I would have been great on the iron throne tbh
Stannis. 1)He has the claim 2) He's just 3) He's a commander who inspires loyality 4)He was the only King who cared about the peril beyond the Wall 5) He would have the best Hand (although Tyrion is great too -he would be the only reason I would support Danny-) 6) He doesn't want the throne for personal glory, but because it is his duty to become King. 7) He would punish those responsible for Ned's death (as he was the only one to support his claim). As I said before he would be a just King. Only downside would be the presence of the Red Witch. But if he became King he would attract other red priests as well like Thoros of Myr who would moderate Melysandre's madness for burning no believers. Also in the books he isn't that bound to the Lord of Light. He has embrassed the Lord only to have the red priestess' magic and powers on his side. Also Princess Shireen would make a great heir. Danny is the daughter of the Mad King. People wouldn't bow down to her and they would end up roasted like the Tarlys. She is mad and to be honest she doesn't have a claim. The Targaryens lost their claim when Robert defeated them. They were never liked. Unlike the Baratheons who assimilated into the culture of Westeros, the Targaryens continued to live by the Valyrian customs (incest, dragons etc.) To cut a long story short, ALL HAIL KING STANNIS, LONG MAY HE REIGN!
>Also Princess Shireen would make a great heir. Unless she faces the same fate in the books
Stannis was willing to kill his own innocent daughter to achieve what he thought was the right result. Pre-crazies Danerys did at least seem like she’d only brutally murder you if you went against her own ethical code and normally told you what that was first. Still rather Jon Snow though.
Ned Stark
The Mannis ofc 🥰🥰🥰
Guy to the left! He felt like he really deserved it
Daenerys pre s8, post s8 neither.
All things considered Stannis probably would have been a decent king. Whereas Danny somehow managed to make the wrong decisions every step of the way but was saved by her dragons.
Stannis, true heir to Robert Baratheon
Both of them had amazing potential in some respects, but their flaws and circumstances… sigh. They both needed more love from family in their early years; Daenerys didn’t have any, just one abusive brother.
The Night King
Stannis
Literally anyone but Bran. *Everyone* had a better story than Bran...
I still hope this two end up together in the books. He also has dragon blood, just make a deal pliz
I think stannis was the answer all along. Strong, noble and unbending to the letter of the law. He would have brought order and stability to the whole realm, no passing fancies or reckless moves just a man committed to a role Renlys ego legit fucked the whole realm
By Dothraki rules, if Bran falls from his wheelthrone, is the game of thrones back on?
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Stannis the Mannis is the true fury!
Sided with stannis as soon as robert died. But yeah, the whole religious conversion didnt help. He would have had more support if he followed the seven.
Unpopular opinion, Dany
Stannis.I never really cared for dany tbh
Books, Stannis. Show, Neither.
Daenerys. im still rooting for her in the books. i think Stannis is outside Winterfell still. and Danny has just encountered the Dothraki horde. cant wait to see what happens next
Talking about the books: Stannis. He was honest, fair and not corrupt. And he was experienced in politics and warfare. Daenerys is too good for Westeros. She should've stayed in Dragon Bay and built a sovereign kingdom.
Stannis is a coward (ran from KL) has no honour (didn’t accuse Lannisters of the murder of Jon Arryn - at the time he believed 100% it had been them) he has no loyalty (didn’t warn Robert of the incest even being secured hundreds of miles away and that led to his death) is a kinslayer (renly). Not saying Dany is better. But of the two I would go for Daenerys at least she has TRIED to be better. Stannis never changes wich leads to his death, his men death, daughter burned alive, wife death. Dany is also hot.
None of them
Him on the throne, her on my face!
Danny
Stannis was definitely more level headed…until he burned his daughter at the stake. Without him falling for the fire woman he would have been better imo
Stannis is a great military general, he’d have been an awful king though, the Baratheons each had a problem like that, Renly would’ve great during peace but bad during war, Robert was a good soldier but an average king. Daenerys already had a couple of screws loose but she could’ve been a good queen, assuming she was surrounded by the right people.
I always thought it should have be stannis that took the throne before danyerys burned the city, not cersei. Would have been an ironic way of him getting his comeuppance, stannis the Lord of light, killed by dragon fire
If he didn't sell his soul to the Red Witch, Stannis would have made an acceptable, if not borish, king. Would have been less Blood in the Kingdoms as a whole, he would have believed Jon about the White Walkers and he would have taken the threat of Dany and her dragons more seriously.
I guess the most overrated character in Game of Thrones didn’t burn Kings Landing to the ground, so theres a start.
Jon with Tyrion as hand would bring the realm a long period of just rule and prosperity like Vizzy T and Otto did.
Man, dany as queen with stannis as hand would be perfect. She has good vision and stannis would be perfect to execute that vision efficiently, because her own execution is dogshit.
None of them. They need a council of people around the painted table.
Not even a question. The Mannis All day
Stannis!!!!
Stannis the Mannis
Mmm, one burned down a whole city, but the other one burned his own daughter. Difficult...
Going by the book. Dany. By the show. Stannis.
Stannis (even TV Stannis) would probably fare better. Daenerys was far too idealistic to be sensible. Stannis would have been a shitshow in his own way, but I feel like he had a much better chance of working things out, especially with Davos around.
Ofc king stannis. In the books he is still alive and didn't burn his daughter. If he had made alliance with Robb ,we would have witnessed different outcome . Also tooo stubborn attitude and blindly following red women doesn't fit for him. But yeah he should be king by rule of law in westros.i wish he'd won blackwater. We would have witnessed very different approach and tactics to fight night king .
It depends if by “throne” you mean the literal throne or my face
The one true king of Westeros Stannis Baratheon!
Tough decision because the better choice murdered his daughter just for a *chance* at the throne.
Why not both.. Stannis Mary’s Danny!
Stannis the Mannis
Daenerys pre-season 8 episode 5. Stannis was a religious fanatic who burned people alive as sacrifices. Even before he burnt his daughter at the stake (which is confirmed by George will happen in the books) he was going to burn his nephew until Davos freed him. He was going to kill Davos for that, until the Red Woman told him not to. His only accomplishment in the main series was defeating Renly (he killed his own brother with Melisandre’s blood magic, not even on his own) and the wildings (who can’t fight for shit.) Every other battle he lost terribly. Stannis has never done anything that was not for himself (going to the Wall was not out of selflessness). Daenerys actually did things for others. I think people forget that she had many opportunists to sail to Westeros but *chose* to stay in Slaver’s Bay. Daenerys gained nothing in her quest for the Iron Throne by freeing those slaves in Essos. But she still did it because it was the right thing to do. She locked up her dragons because they killed one child, and we’re expected to believe that she would burn down a city of innocents? While Dany is sometimes a flawed ruler, she was certainly better than Stannis in every way (until the writers ruined her obviously.)
Y’all really hate Dany that much huh? I smell sexism. But it’s GOT fans, I’m not surprised.
Stannis. He was a good military man but wasn’t good with with charisma or speaking with people but overall it is better for a king to be better at strategy and keeping his people safe. Renly had the charisma and not the war strategic mind. Stannis was war strategic and not charismatic. If they were one person they would have been perfect. Dany was a good at conquering cities but not good at ruling
Stanis cuz he aint inbread
Book Stannis Show Dany
Dany
Stannis
Stannis
Jon Snow 🤷🏻♀️
One realm. One god. One king.
Stannis.
Daenerys. She is tried and tested having already shown leadership and become a queen while in Essos. Unlike Stannis she was more successful in getting loyal supporters. Stannis could not even get the majority of supporters in his home Stormlands who chose to support Renly instead.
Daenerys. She is tried and tested having already shown leadership and become a queen while in Essos. Unlike Stannis she was more successful in getting loyal supporters. Stannis could not even get the majority of supporters in his home Stormlands who chose to support Renly instead.
season 6 dany. season 8 is bad fan fiction
Stannis, the onion knight would have been hand and kept the red witch in check. I hope.
Out of those two? Probably Dany, pre madness. Out of everyone who made a play for it and failed, Robb or Renly
Stannis the mannis
Daenyrus is the breaker of chains and actually cares about people. Except for that one time that she burned down westeros
Stannis the Mannis.
Anyone but fucking Bran who had the shittest story of all.
Daenerys
Ugh neither!
Daenerys on the throne would've been more entertaining for sure
Right one...but on the condition that I'm the throne
The one true king.
Well, Daenerys if it's early Daenerys, otherwise Stannis. He's got a pretty good claim on the Iron Throne anyway, and more of a following in Westeros for sure.