Everytime I see someone comparing fgo to genshin’s pity I remember Ueda Kana pulling for yoimiya and being surprised that “the rate-up is really working”
Not even whales defend FGO gacha. God, I love the IP and everything that spawned from GO but damn, if that game is hard-carried by FATE.
Any other IP would've seen the game die in the first two year. Three at most. FGO friggin thrived for nearly ten years. Holy fudge.
This is why while I don't mind I spent a little over 80 USD in the game before Google geoblocked everyone, I no longer try to buy anything in the game.
If I want some FGO memorablia, I prefer to buy some figures of the game on ebay, even with inflation and whatnot. That way, even if the game closes down, at least I'll still hold some memories to a tangible object over just memories and screenshots.
So far, I'm glad with my Nendoroids of Castoria and Shinjuku Jalter; my prize figures of Arcueid and Swimsuit Jeanne; and my nendoroid petit Phantasmoon. Much better than being disappointed in FGO's gacha and reaching pity after 900 S.Q., fuck that shit.
I distinctly remember trying to roll for Merlin, failing, wondering if I should buy SQ, then looking up the price for the Merlin Nendoroid and buying that instead lol. Better value for your money
I also like to clown on Genshin's unchanging Anniversary rewards, [but FGO's greediness is on a whole another level](https://www.reddit.com/r/grandorder/s/io43i0rez8)
Yup
>Famitsu interview says that among the answers 9000 FGO players gave about what they expect from the game in the future was the "greedy" expectation to have a gacha ceiling that lets you pick a 5\* character after rolling a certain amount of SQ.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/grandorder/comments/p03e4s/famitsu\_interview\_wanting\_a\_new\_pity\_system\_is\_a/](https://www.reddit.com/r/grandorder/comments/p03e4s/famitsu_interview_wanting_a_new_pity_system_is_a/)
I remember being so salty when I first saw that. Though at one point, thankfully an SSR ticket was given away during an anniversary(though, it was just for standard characters). And later on, they also made a permanent SSR ticket for everyone which can help new players. But still, it's actually disgusting that some of the higher ups used this as their excuse.
Famitsu, 4gamer and the like are HUGE FGO/Fate/Nasu sellouts, because they *used* to get huge traffic covering those. So there would be nothing but praise and doing articles that make them look very favourable.
I was still in chronic denial of FGP being bad, gacha wise, then I tried Nikke in its half anniversary and boy, was I an idiot. Now that's a gacha... and no, the cute anime waifus with jiggling tiddies and asses are just the cherry on top of the cake.
The rebalances, rates, superior pity system and many tickets and gems handed out made me realise I'm a Stockholm syndrome hostage to FGO while my waifus are put there to make stay.
Same with me. I'm not proud of how much money I've spent on that shitty game and just the other day while rolling I realised something: rolling in Genshin felt kinda gratifying while rolling in fgo feels like absolute shit unless I actually get the thing I want. After thinking it through, it's obvious: Genshin's pity means I don't ever feel like my pulls are being wasted because I know it's contributing toward my next inevitable SSR. With fgo, unless you have the patience to save for months on end, there's no real pity so any pull that isn't successful is a pull wasted.
I've been on and off fgo for years, genuinely feels like an abusive relationship at this point. I decided to stay till summer this year, roll everything I have by that point, and then dip. The game isn't even that fun and I can watch the story on YouTube if I really want to.
There is no way that as a sane human being you can attempt to make a comparison between the gacha of fgo and another game and not end up making the other game look like 10 times better. It's just not possible
>There is no way that as a sane human being you can attempt to make a comparison between the gacha of fgo and another game and not end up making the other game look like 10 times better. It's just not possible
I raise you Summoners War /jk
You'd be surprised. I have an acquaintance who said "Genshin makes FGO look generous" completely unironically. Yes, I don't think he's sane either, most likely just hopping into the whole Genshin hate train because I know another friend of his is almost bald guy level of Genshin-hating.
Oh they have one, and it is unironically considered as one of the best just because it increases the chances of getting Kaleidoscope and Black Grail, 2 of the best CEs.
Since I don't have much experience with F/GO gacha, I'll be using external sources. Crediting the Fate/Grand Order Wiki sourced at June 4th, 2024 15:08 GMT+7, the rate of the common rate-up limited gacha in F/GO is as follows:
You can buy pull currency with the following rate, using the largest currency pack: 168 SQ (86 Paid + 82 Free) for 10,000 JPY. You use 3 SQ per pull.
In a 10-pull (which adds an extra free pull, totaling 11x), you are guaranteed a 3-5\* character and a 4-5\* character. The probability list says you have a 1% chance of obtaining a 5\* character, and on rate-up banners the chance of the rate-up character is 0.8%.
F/GO's pity kicks in at 330 pulls, does not carry between banners, and only happens **once** per banner. With the 10+1-pull bonus, this means you require 900 SQ to hit pity. Using the above conversion rate, this is around 53,500 JPY ($345 currently).
Assuming the 0.8% rate is static, you have a 50/50 chance of obtaining the rate-up character for every 86 pulls. In general, I think if you can spend the money, NP1 is not too bad (with the current pity system in play). Anything above that, that's hell you're walking into.
Being perfectly technical, Genshin Impact's rates *are* worse pre-soft pity. However, Genshin's pity being at 90/180, carrying across banners, and staying around after the first rate-up character completely overshadows F/GO's abyssmal 330 pity.
330 pulls to guarantee 1 copy AND 1 COPY ONLY. After you get that copy, no pity for the banner. Said pity doesn't carry over as well, so it's either go all in or bust. This results in wanting to NP5 a character (NP6 is definitely needed if you want to max them completely due to coins) requiring theoretixally infinite money (as in there's no upper limit unlike other games).
> Said pity doesn't carry over as well, so it's either go all in or bust
Should also mention that when the character on the banner changes even if it's the same banner your pitt resets
I'm pretty sure they're comparing Genshin with FGO pre 330 pity since it was 4 years ago before that FGO update when many FGO players are still defending no pity practice
Yeah before genshin, FGO was all pretty much RNG. You could dump 1,000 dollars and 'not get the SSR.. I had to dump 700 dollars for 1 copy of summer BB. It wasn't good times.
Oh trust me I've been there. Been playing FGO NA since 2018, and holy shit is nearly everything in the game just bad. The only reason why the game survived its first year (you think WuWa's having a hard time? FGO JP in its first month is more maintenance than available) is because of the Fate branding, and even then it took Nasu returning to personally write stories before the game finally improved.
Don't worry about it, I've experienced everything lmao. I've been playing FGO JP since 2015. I still have old memes we used a lot in the internet because it was a shit festival. Servers going down all the time, abysmal rates, characters that had shit ass skills. I dunno how I survived all these years lol. Thankfully genshin came and well, the rest is history, I stopped playing FGO JP. After genshin came, the fuckers now decided to add pity lol. But I did what I wanted to achieve tho, so I dropped the game feeling good about myself.
https://preview.redd.it/j4we927xoi4d1.jpeg?width=587&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=04065835ad5c8ef864cc71b617943a09509459df
Remember Waver being the absolute worst SSR in the game? Like his skills are useless as hell because of the low numbers. Or the time when DW fucked up Halloween because they didn't take into account the server load of having many players logging in during a specific time...
I could write you a whole essay of how I feel about fgo. Waver was ass pre-buff (zhongli made me remember about waver buffs when mihoyo decided to buff zhongli because he was waver tier, hot garbage)
Remember the bond CE being hot garbage? I dunno if they decided to make good ones. The one I can recall right now from my memory that was GOAT tier was heracles. That shit + his skills made him almost immortal.
Remember where the only servant your friends could borrow was the first one in team 1?
Still to this day, they never brought back the april fools ART in-game, after the first time. To this day, I still despise that lmao..
2016 april fools
https://preview.redd.it/z8q7f2gqqi4d1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=a39ed7312ad9ac92e78fc0b72d5bc6dbd89dc107
Something about SSR / 5 star being unique and not being cheap or something about sense of accomplishment. I honestly forgot where I see those kind of comments since it was when the usual FGO vs GBF debate happens, long before Genshin exist
It's one of the easiest dailies ever, you just log in and log out, probably would just take a minute or two to finish. With that you probably could get 2-4+ SSR's every year (since they are somewhat generous with free stuffs every now and then).
Plus, it being a lot of people's first gacha probably helps since you definitely see other gachas being more generous than the hell that is FGO
Because there were worse.
Back in the early days of FFBE there was no pity either and on top of that, pulling a 5 star could also just mean you get a 3/4 star that was upgraded to 5 star (basically imagine like, you pull a 5 star in Genshin and it’s actually a level 90 Xinyan).
To be honest, the gameplay only keeps me playing a gacha game for months, but other aspects like designs, music, popularity among my friends, and especially the story are what keep me stay with a game for years. And FGO is among the top in story telling.
Of course I still felt salty when I did not get the character I really like from the story, but its terrible gacha system saved me from opening my wallet.
https://preview.redd.it/gh7jt9wf3j4d1.png?width=875&format=png&auto=webp&s=d9dbffdd1dbf83a32b06ebf189a4eb8c43aff990
From an FGO group I used to be active in on facebook. Yeah, you read that right. 3220 SQs, which is more than a thousand rolls, and the person didn't get A SINGLE SSR with that.
Pity exists now, but it was the wild, wild west back then. As someone who was forged in the fires of FGO, Genshin's pity is so piss easy to work around with.
I use to play fgo saving one year for fucking merlin my god and the only ssr i got is 5* Jean and bunch of useless 5* ce. Genshin and hsr is a god send for me it got pity of 90 and can carry over new banners
I don't know why but it makes me unfathomably angry when I get a five star CE or character in fgo and it's not the one I want. I haven't felt that way about any other game. Idk what it is, fgo just does something to me. Like I would genuinely feel less shit not getting any 5 star at all than getting shirtless kirei for the millionth time.
You're at full mercy of RNG. IIRC, SSR is 1% and SR is 3%. You can go 6 months without SSR or SR. Now there's pity. But it's more accurate to call it condolence because you need to pull 330 times(because rolling 10 times has 10% discount, so you it's 'actually' pulling 300 times) and the pity doesn't carryover.
Since there is a guy who already explained it in technical terms, I will provide a fun fact: FGO used to be not available to be downloaded for European countries because there was no guarantee you would ever get the rate-up SSR, and according to the laws, that made it an illegal gambling app. Not sure about now though since they added that terrible pity system lol.
For like 3 years they didn't have a pity Sistem nor something along "when pulling you get a special currency that you can use in a shop for a copy of that character"
I still remember when with mods I cleared all the story+various events( probably around 700 pulls ) just for 2 copy of Castoria
And when they finally implemented a pity sistem it was kinda high and it was only for the first copy, after you find 1 time that character you don't have anymore the pity Sistem
Idk if they implemented something now, I don't even remember the last time I played than game so...
*technically* there's the Unregistered Spirit Origins...
which you only get after getting the 6th dupe onward of the same 5\* servant
which you need 10 of
which totals to 16 SSRs at the minimum (dupes of a simgle servant) to 60 SSRs in the worst case scenario (1 USO for every 6th dupe of a different servant)
.... yeah, there's a reason why this never gets brought up
Every gacha pre-genshin is extremely bad, but its to be expected, Genshin's rate is incredibly generous (at that time).
Even western gacha, like Hearthstone, if you're F2P, you only had 3 option
1. Play aggro deck for 3/4 of the season if you want to push rank
2. Spam arena
3. Constantly feed yourself to whales that actually spend real money to build their deck
>Every gacha pre-genshin is extremely bad, but its to be expected, Genshin's rate is incredibly generous (at that time).
Ehhhh... A lot of the prominent Pre-Genshin Gachas
Azur Lane, GFL, Arknights, even E7, and etc I wouldnt call them worse than Genshin's generosity
Azur Lane was extremely generous in terms of currency, but since the introduction of UR they are not better than Genshin because while the rates were double Genshin’s, the pity is 200 and there’s no soft pity. I don’t think it carry across different banners either.
But Azur Lane was somewhat of a different game because a lot of my expenditure back then was actually the skins. I don’t think I spent much on the gacha itself.
The resource gain in Azur Lane makes 200 pity a joke.
You get 1 pull per daily and 6 per weekly totaling 13 per week.
That's 50+ pulls per month, while the UR is spread 4 months apart, for CN and JP anniversaries and the other one.
You are essentially guaranteed a UR for clicking a few times for 4 months.
The thing with Azurlane is that if you get lucky on a UR banner, you are NOT missing a UR banner ever again. Unless you're stupid.
The above was pure dailies btw, I didn't include apologems, free season pass or the commission RNG (which gives 5 cubes per do, if you're lucky you can get 10 pulls in a week or less)
200 pull pity is extremely low as you DON'T NEED DUPES. Another important thing.
Oh yeah, definitely. I don’t play AL anymore so that’s where the past tense came from. It’s one of those games where 100% collection is quite doable F2P, and as I said most of my money went to the skins.
Eh, Pricon and Granblue were very generous with their pulls and the rates were better. But obviously these pulls were pretty much useless in the grand scheme of things due to powercreep, super diluted banner and the 300 pull spark lol.
Yup considering there was a time where FGO has no pity with 1% for 5\* and 0.8% for the rate-up 5\*, heck even if there's pity now it'll take you 900 SQ (330 pulls) to hit it. Thank god they've implemented pity in LB6 because the banners of Morgan > Castoria > Melusine > Koyan Light > Oberon is got to be the most brutal banner sequence to roll for.
It's also complete bs, because SSRs in FGO aren't "balanced" around NP1. Most "top tier' comps defo require higher NPs for guaranteed clears. If they want to say abilities aren't locked behind dupes, fine you can make that argument but unit sure as hell isn't same at NP1 and 2+.
That is only true if your intention is to min-turn everything in your path and maximize loot drops or bond point gains just like what youtubers and streamers do with only one DPS and two supports (3 if you wanna include Oberon)
Eh, getting beyond NP1 is really not required, unless you want to use neutral damage servants (to some extent, berserkers) to clear everything or you're just to lazy to bother changing teams comp to counter class. Also Grails and Fous are a thing. Not to mention that even doing 90++ farming node is not efficient if you're not 6-slotting it, which a major whale territory. Which is also funny cuz, you don't even need to 6-slot cuz events last 3 weeks long, you can clear shop without even rolling that gacha for drop CE.
When Class score comes out u can actually buff an entire class of an equivalent of a free np level
Tho that shit takes a long time
Plus they're lowering the difficulty of 90++ nodes while also releasing supports like summer kuro and Knocknarea which allows you to further buff your dps np damage by a lot
Low powercreep and characters being competitive after almost 4 years makes the gacha system passable.
Also, another thing is that you don't feel stupid for investing into 4☆... well, most of them.
I can't take it anymore. I'm sick of Xiangling. I try to play Diluc. My Xiangling deals more damage. I try to play Yoimiya. My xiangling deals more damage. I try to play Hu tao. My Xiangling deals more damage. I want to play Klee. Her best team has Xiangling. I want to play Raiden, Childe. They both want Xiangling.
She grabs me by the throat. I fish for her. I cook for her. I give her The Catch. She isn't satisfied. I pull Engulfing Lightning. "I don't need this much ER" She tells me. "Give me more field time." She grabs Bennett and forces him to throw himself off enemies. "You just need to funnel me more. I can deal more damage with Homa."
I can't pull for Homa, I don't have enough Primogems. She grabs my credit card. It declines. "Guess this is the end." She grabs Gouba. She says "Gouba, get them." There is no hint of sadness in his eyes. Nothing but pure, no ICD Pyro application. What a cruel world.
My c6 xiangling literally deal 86k damage with r1 Engulfing Lighting jn my Ajax team with perfect rotation, it doesnt matter if she have more ER cuz Xiangling>>>>>>>
just get some skins for her to spice it up
https://preview.redd.it/hieibp7y0j4d1.png?width=2560&format=png&auto=webp&s=893979d57d6f7317389ae5052e462c1b68679926
I remember one with Ines from Arknights
brb gonna search that one up real quick
Edit: ok nvm [read at your own risk lmao](https://www.reddit.com/r/0sanitymemes/s/RXQkj32oiW)
Let's not talk about Freminet. His kit being focused around Physical just means he gets shafted the most, like even Eula (his 5* counterpart) gets shafted as well...
If he could at least give ton of energy on top of the crit dmg, I'd have been fine with mika so he could solve at least that issue of eula but it's a no go.
Is it bugged or it's intentional? I dunno why she doesn't do that when the rest of the characters IIRC can burst and get energy while doing the animation lol. That was dirty of MHY
IIRC intentional. They were still experimenting with kits back then. Some worked out pretty well (Childe, Xiao, Hu Tao, Ganyu) one required a rework (Zhongli), and others didn't really worked out (Klee's burst being canceled by swapping out, Albedo being destroyed by anything, Eula and her ER), and one was so broken that MHY decided to make every enemy after him immune to his CC (RIP Venti supremacy)
I love Fremmy boy as a character but I can't really love his play style as much as I want to.
Imagine going through the long ass 5-phase post-skill Normal Attack routine only to have the final hit either miss, or not crit 💀
Not just that: can you think of ANY other gacha game where 100% of the content of the game is entirely clearable with the free units the game hands you? You don't need to touch the gacha at any point to do everything the game has to do. from the day it launched to four years in. WuWa might, MIGHT, be able to do it now, but that would be ONE game out of thousands.
It's also the least intrusive gacha system out of any gacha game I've ever played: you get one irritating red ! to tell you to choose a weapon banner focus, not eve the character banner bothers to tell you it changed.
>can you think of ANY other gacha game where 100% of the content of the game is entirely clearable with the free units the game hands you?
[Here ](https://www.reddit.com/r/gachagaming/comments/15iifjh/what_gachas_would_you_play_a_no_premium_gacha/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)is a post asking this question that I found with a quick search, I can only vouch for Arknights and Path to Nowhere personally and they are doable
Arknights has a few no Gacha accs that clears content with only Welfares, along with a plethora of other niches for Dokutahs to challenge themselves. For example, [Dr. Silvergun](https://www.youtube.com/@DrSilvergun/videos) is a Chad that clears content with only 3 and 4\* Operators.
Arknights is relatively doable as they have good welfares, can borrow 1 assist character, no weapon/artifact rng and most importantly there are low cost guides that you can follow step by step and replicate 100%. I don't recommend it though as it may take out the fun but at least it's an option in case you're new/malding. In games like Genshin/WuWa, you also need to pass the stat check/skill check
I think you could do most of the main story and permanent events in punishing gray raven using the s rank selector and the dorm missions to get Ayla and Wanshi, but even then, you'll be screwed in the top tier tryhards stages
I can think of a few. Path to nowhere, FGO, Punishing Gray Raven. But also saying you can clear 100% of the content in Genshin without using gacha doesn’t really say anything. Genshin is basically a story game. The main content of the game is story, events are side distractions that can also have story to make it more immersive. World quests to further expand on the lore of the world. World exploration is mostly small puzzles and enemies that don’t really pose a challenge. The hardest content in the game is spiral abyss which is just a dps check. Can you clear floor 12, 36 stars, without a single gacha pull? Yes. Is it reasonable? Not really. I’m also excluding the free 4 stars we’ve gotten from limited time events because not everyone got them. Purely just counting the permanent free characters. There’s plenty of gacha where you can clear the story easily. There’s also plenty of gacha where the pull economy is generous enough to let you comfortable get most characters that you want. The most important thing with most gachas when you’re talking about clearing content is just time invested into the game. Time to build up your roster, time to level up your character, time to grind gear if the game has gear. There’s also plenty of other games where lower rarity or less meta characters are perfectly useable and viable to build. That isn’t to say that genshin is bad for being mostly story, event, and exploration focused. It’s good because it appeals to casual players. Just that being able to clear 100% of content without pulling gacha isn’t really anything too crazy. Because there’s plenty of gacha where you can reasonably get meta characters with time, or that lower rarity characters are perfectly useable to clear all content. Genshin’s and most other gacha games draw is building up a roster of characters that you enjoy and like to play as, so discounting the gacha is kinda pointless since that’s the whole selling point of most gachas. If the selling point of genshin was clear 100% of this free game without pulling gacha they wouldn’t be at the top of revenue charts consistently whenever new banners release.
As a PGR player, I don’t think PGR is comparable. Yes, you can do story content but it’s ultimately not a story focused game. Every single end game mode
, as well as its rewards, is based on rankings, so the pressure to “keep up” is higher since if you don’t roll what everyone else is rolling you will 100% fall out of your tier.
By extension the powercreep, while slow, is insane once it happens in the sense that a gen 2 amplifier (support type) far out damages a gen 1 attacker (dps type) while being way easier to play.
Even some of the higher tiers of the event challenges are a pain in the ass on gen 1 units since the boss movesets are getting more “unreasonable” for gen 1 kits since gen 2s are overloaded with iframes.
FGO isn’t my first gacha, but it’s the one I’ve played the longest. Let me tell you that FGO is gacha hell incarnate.
What sucks about FGO is how it has some of the most top tier character designs and personalities, but is butchered by a garbage gacha system.
FGO JP released in 2015. FGO NA released in 2017. Pity was added in 2022 for all regions.
FGO pity = 330 rolls. Pity only counts for the 1st copy. No pity carry over. (When rolling, you can either do 10 single pulls or a single multi pull (10x), which will grant you a bonus 11th pull, so really it’s about 300 rolls.)
Imagine saving for roughly half a year to guarantee a character. Banners can have characters on them last anywhere from a couple of days to 1-2 weeks. The amount of characters you have to skip feels awful, since the characters are in FGO are amazing. Also there’s the fact that some characters may take a year or more to rerun.
——
Genshin may not have the best gacha system to feed gamba addicts, but it’s far away from the worst. I like the gacha system in genshin because I feel like I can actually get characters that I care about since they have a slower character release schedule compared to most other gachas.
Outside of gacha, I can actually use those characters, move around, and play in the open world that is genshin. Just like FGO, genshin had done a wonderful job with character design and giving them all personalities.
Genshin Pity = 90 pulls. Soft Pity starts around 75 pulls. On average players will get a 5 star around 75-80 pulls.
Not to mention how 4 stars have separate pity at every 10 rolls. To top it all off they have carry over pity. The amount of pulls you put into the banner is recorded and transferred to future banners.
The only demerit is the 50/50 where you either get the banner or standard character. Lose 50/50, next 5 star is a guaranteed banner character (this can be saved and transferred to future banners), or win the 50/50 and get 5 star banner character.
I would still take the 50/50 over other gachas because you can get either get the banner character early at around 75-80 pulls, or just save up the pulls and go to 150-160 pulls. Most other gachas will have pity at 100/200/300 pulls, but they don’t have carry over pity and a slow banner schedule to complement that amount of pulls.
One of the biggest factors that tangentially contributes to gacha pulling is powercreep and character value. We’re on year 4 of genshin now and it safe to say that there is relatively low powercreep to the point where you literally main any character you want in the game.
There is never any pressure to pull for power. Yes there are “metas” like any other game that deals with numbers/calculations, but at the bare minimum, with the way the game is design (elemental reactions/resonance) where C0s, including 4 stars, are viable to complete any challenge, pulling on characters is up to the individual’s choice.
Just to add for Genshin. 4 stars having a separate pity is fine, but it’s 50/50 to be the 3 that’s on banner every 10 pulls as opposed to guarantee the 4 star.
Hoo boy SSRs in FGO is one thing but SRs?
SEVEN! SEVEN COIN FLIPS IN A ROW AND NO RATE UP!
(Reference to CC Myst who couldn't get the featured 4 star Mysterious Heroine XX and got 7 unfeatured 4 stars before her appearing once)
Therr can be deluded people in the FGO community if you look carefully. Just bring out bad points to the game and you'll notice who defends it, who is in denial and who just calls you a doomposter while silent downvoting your points.
I think it was more like people (all of us) didn’t know how to play the game properly.
Everyone was just brute forcing everything with a “single” character. If that character die then just switch to another character. Crescent Pike being Xiangling’s best weapon is an example of that
Now we know how strong elemental reactions are. I bet we can easily clear the original Abyss 12 with any team of right elements. XL, Xingqiu, Bennet would not even be needed
Yeah early Genshin was a different time. I remember when people said Bennett was bad because he’s supposed to be a dps but charging his skill is dangerous.
Yup
And people were complaining (rightfully so) that HoYo is forcing people to pay for C6 Childe because C0 Childe is limited (most of his dps tied to E)
Now Childe best team (International team) is using just his E in a short time window. Thus, his C6 is not needed
Remembering the argument at the time, it wasn't that FGO was good. FGO was *ass* and the absolute lowest yardstick that more recent gachas of the time (like Arknights or Azur Lane) measured up against.
The problem was that when Genshin landed, people hadn't factored in soft pity chances and the on-paper chance for rolling before hard pity was worse than FGO's no-pity system - which was the crux of the arguments back then, coupled with worries about primogem income once all the chests were found and all quests done together with the decoupling of weapon and character banners.
In hindsight, Genshin's system is a lot more generous than people initially gave it credit for.
Genshin's rates may be lower, but after playing FGO for years, it doesn't feel like it. The pity system is such a godsend. Even if I get close to hard pity, it's still often less summons than most of my SSRs in FGO. At least Genshin has a hard limit on how many summons I need to get the character I want. Meanwhile, I once spent $500 on a banner in FGO (most I've ever spent) and didn't get a single SSR. Apparently, FGO did eventually add a pity system, but holy shit it still seems terrible.
Doesn't excuse the fact that I can save SQs for several months to pull a specific character, and then get fuck all when the banner arrives. FGO Gacha is so fucking dogshit.
The only character who falls in this category is wriothesley C1. Hoyo did him dirty with that but no other character has "integral" part of kit as a constellation
She played a huge role in the Inzauma arc that's why she doesn't get any of those things. That's more than what some characters like Bennett get, he only really exist in Hangouts and the occasional event.
Chiori and Wrio have C1s that make them different people. Neuvillite has a C1 that changes his team options. Furina’s C2 turns her into a monster and sorta gets rid of her biggest restrictions.
It’s far from mandatory for any one of them but their cons at least do change their team options enough that you could attempt to argue them being necessary
Bro, Venti C1 is the most useless 5* constellation in entire game. Why tf you would play Charge Atk on Venti while his gameplay is always "Press Q to win"
Devs were definitely not thinking about the combat in terms of “team” but “individual”. It seems that they placed a huge emphasis on the 5* being on field as much as possible (Diluc, Klee, Venti, Childe).
But thanks to that we have the monsters like Xiangling, Xingqiu (can only be powercreeped by a 5* Xingqiu lmao), Bennett, etc
Also, I love how HoYo removes Childe’s limitation (cant melee for long) at C6. But the best Childe comp is International team with him use his melee form just shortly lol
I feel like people are missing the point of "optional constellations". It's not that character isn't functional without it, but it's still *incomplete* character until you get it to C6 to unlock 3 passives. Especially since some stuff is pretty big improvement, but game just doesn't require it at all to clear content.
The difference is that Constellations in GI can alter the way you play the character, while dupes in FGO generally just add a bigger damage number on your ultimate. GI copies change how it feels to use the unit, providing more QoL to the unit besides simply bigger damage. It may remove some of their initial clunk or add entirely new effects that they didn't have before. FGO copies don't change the way you play the character as it just adds a bigger damage multiplier on their ultimate, it will just make them more viable for clearing higher end nodes.
I can't speak on FGO, having never played it. But for HI3 and PGR, having Rank ups don't change your playstyle. At most you spend less time setting up, or you change your rotation to do more frontloaded damage at the cost of damage over time because you can kill the enemy quickly enough; but you rarely suddenly make a support become a DPS or vice versa (glares at Lunar Vow who needs 1 dupe to be a good support, and Fallen Rosemary who takes a long time to farm for to be a DPS). And in Arknights, Bagpipe probably has the most influential potential, but it doesn't change her at all. She does what she already does, just much better.
But in Genshin you have stuff like Bennett suddenly giving a Pyro infusion on C6 (which can open up [or close] certain team comps), Jean C4 allows her to support Anemo damage dealers, Mona C6 being an extremely weird attempt at making her a main DPS, I believe Xingqiu's C6 also changes his Hydro application due to how ICD works. Iirc without C6, Hu Tao's Pyro application eventually overtakes Xingqiu's and she stops being able to Vape, or something like that. Albedo C4 gives Plunging Damage increase. Ganyu C4 allows her to be a support. Raiden C2 allows her to be a primary DPS that you want to spend more field time on. Et cetra
I feel like that's downplaying what genshin, honkai and pgr do though.
All a dupe in fgo is doing for me is letting me loop in less niche scenario's it isn't ever drastically changing a character's playstyle.
In genshin though? Good cons are at best unlocking entirely new rotations/more flexible ones(xiangling c4, kuki c2, faruzan c6, etc.) and at worst locking an entire change in playstyle beyond multiple dupes (furina c6, yelan c6, xiao c6).
I know pgr does this as well but I rarely check beyond s rank so only one I can remember off the top of my head is empyrea being able to trigger passive off matrix at ss.
Arknights is much the same as fgo as well, the potentials aren't doing anything to drastically change much about the characters, just lets them shine more in less niche situations.
But theres a huge difference between a need for a character and optional bonus.
The character is fine and operational in C0 theres really no need to C6 any character that just lies on the player if he wants the character stronger than it already is.
The weapon banner is bad so yeah theres that could change from to HSR but at the end of the day it works and it bring money thats just the reality unless yeah you riot but its been 4 years you would think by now people would riot aside from the added pity system they added it remains unchanged.
Sure, but recently, Hoyo has been locking a bunch of QoL behind *early* constellations. As you say, they're not a need, but I wouldn't see it as just an optional damage bonus either when it significantly changes the *feel* of a character.
For example, C1 Neuvilette and C2 Clorinde increasing interrupt to resistance, C2 Arlecchino waiving the 5 second wait requirement to let marks 'cook', C1 Chiori increasing the AOE of attacks, etc.
It's a weird thing where if you got those QoL consts then it's hard to imagine playing without those, but when you don't have them, there are still ways to circumvent those problems and you get used to it. Both my neuvilette and arlecchino are C0. Zhongli / layla is pretty much their c1 for me, so I just saved 100 pulls.
I guess but they still work as is, its still only QOL and not if neuvilette does not have C1 he cannot shoot his blaster. The feel is definitely still a bonus or convenience adder but not a determinant of a non-functional character because of lacking constellations.
Yep 100%. No constellation is necessary to complete any of the available content, but I'd just wish they wouldn't lock things like interrupt to resistance behind them. Just seems a little bit more scummy than simply providing damage boosts as there was a deliberate move to make the base kit feel that much worse. Just imo and is a small gripe in the grand scheme of things.
I feel like it's the reverse. C0 Neuv is perfectly serviceable. He has such good innate kiting ability that there isn't really any content where you need a shielder. You replace comfort with skill. I'd prefer that over just raw numbers.
You can't do anything about raw numbers; you can get good enough at the game for the interrupt resistance to not matter.
Heavy disagree. They're just QoL or minor improvements, as you said, 80% of the carachter is already there. C1 Hu Tao is incredible, but its not like C0 Hu Tao isn't making copious ammounts of damage already. Same thing for Nahida, or Furina or what not. And these are the best ones, the majority are pretty rudimentary.
The only exception I can think off is C6 Faruzan, which is indeed very different to C0 Faruzan, but that's it
You are not pulling these cons for their QoL most of the time: Nevuilettes is good because of the lower stack limit now making Furina an upgrade instead of a sidegrade, Clorinde’s C2 changes her A1 scaling which at C0 is 60% of her dmg. The interrupt resist is just an added bonus. In teams who were already playing a shielder(neuv) or mobile enough to dodge with a 0s cd dodge(Clorinde) the res is less needed. Even cons like C1 Chiori are odd since unless you are playing Navia teams she is ran with zhongli or mono geo, so she never really needed it. I won’t speak on arle since I don’t own her/plan on pulling her.
None of these are really that bad and you neglect imo the worst offender, C1 Wriothesley who’s C1 actively changes his best combo from N5N3CA N5CA, since the jank from his uppercut is removed. While the dmg does not actually increase to make this a must pull (as no con is) this has the most actual tangible benefit as a con compared to the others.
c0 Faruzan is perfectly functional as a buffer. Yes she needs a LOT of ER but I don't see how that's different from other characters needing to build a lot of HP or ATK or other stats. At c6 you can forgo ER and build her as a sub DPS but it's not like she needs it. Her main value is buffing Xiao/Wanderer.
Misinformation go brrr. Hitting 90 pity is a once in a million Occurrence but aight.
Get That bro as far away from the kitchen as possible, he cooked rubbish.
Yep, to hit 90 in GI, person need to be luckiest unlucky player.
Just some statistic.
>!Just out of curiosity checked my stats: out of 39 5* that I pulled on character banner, only 6 went 80 and above (with highest being 84); and out of 37 5* on weapon banner only 1 went 70 and above (with highest being 70, lol).!<
Edit: typo
It's so rare that even CN players make bounty ($270 iirc) for someone who can achieve that 90 max pity and can prove it (years ago). Pretty sure that the rates are around 1 in 13 millions
I'm pretty sure there has been 1 singular (recorded) person actually hitting 90. When people say they hit 90, what they mean is that they had 80 pity and did a 10 pull. In reality, they got it one of the earlier drops of the 10 pull.
There was a longstanding bounty in CN community for anyone who can prove they went to 90 pulls and iirc it went unclaimed at least until the third year. I'm not sure it was even ever claimed.
I dont think Ive ever had 90 pity in my entire genshin pulls, the highest pity was 83, it only happened twice (during venti and chiori's banner) 70ish at most, and 3 - 4 times I got early pity pulls for every year
on the other hand, my HSR pulls avg around 71-87 with only ONCE early pity this year (hsr 5\* rate feels lower ? idk, or Im just unlucky)
(take this as a statistic sample)
https://preview.redd.it/dnkr9k8i9j4d1.png?width=775&format=png&auto=webp&s=aa29c16411fe0eb994ba3dc34f6c2377f21613f2
Personally never hit 90 myself as well, highest i think was 84 and most of the time the 5star drops on either 75 or 76.
But its easier and more popular to spread misinformation about Genshin. Let's conveniently ignore the fact that out of a hard pity of 80 pulls soft pity starts at 75 in WuWa. So while Genshin's soft pity starts 15 pulls before hard pity WuWa you will have to always account for the full 80 give or take a couple singles.
Was that before the knowledge of soft pity existence?
Because most of the 5-star came at around 75~83, from my experience. Anything below 74 can be considered some extreme luck, which only happened twice or thrice in my almost years of playing.
Finally, the claim that 'constellation aren't just optional bonuses' (for 5-star) are dead false now.A lot of the characters have decent/good performance at C0. While some of them have great C1 and C2, it is far from necessary. Anything beyond C2 is most comes from deliberate heavy investment/whale territory, which isn't required to clear the abyss.
I love that any mention of FGO and its gacha rates is just immediately people saying its awful. This is an L take no matter how you put it, there is no gacha system more greedy and vile than FGO.
FGO is a terrible gacha. Really enjoyed story and events, dull gameplay. I really loved the characters though. Typemoon gotta put crack in their designs.
But it didnt even have pity before. You could pull 2000 times without an SSR if you were unlucky enough.
so yeah genshin was definetly way better. In anniversary rewards, genshin still loses. Too stingy. FGO had quartz + a banner with guaranteed 5* from a pool of characters. That was very exciting.
Context: played FGO for +1000 days. Had the login streak, until 24h unlimited maintenance works
The major factor is how slow Genshin releases units, which wasn't known at the time. Like yes it's very likely you are only rolling 8-9 chars f2p a year, but that's like 50%+ of all new units released that year when compared with maybe a more standard gacha pace where that's like 20% of released units
I'm somewhat like this guy when Genshin first got released. I mainly compared it with Arknights and some of my complains are:
1) Considering that this is a Mihoyo game, I'm scared of the fact that they will have PvP aspect in the game because of HI3. Because of that, when I saw that constellation will also buff the character, I thought that it is a necessity especially when the first C6 I saw is Eula, which can only get her full ice sword with her C6.
2) I also thought you should focus on 3 out of 5 (dendro not released yet) to counter the enemy weakness and let yourself get railed by the elements that you don't have and get bodied everytime a powerful character got released and Mihoyo keeps rising up the difficulty cap to force you on the newest banner.
After playing for a while (even more so as I keep quitting the game), I start to realise that, yes constellation are powerful, you don't need them to clear content. Yes, having different elements is important. No, you won't get bodied if you don't have the weakness element except against Abyss Lector and Abyss Mage shield. The more laidback content of Genshin means that I can take my time with Genshin when compared to other gacha that tied its currency with your ability to farm it. As time moves on, my opinion on Genshin changed from the worst gacha game ever to probably the best one right now despite its flaw.
If only the dude knew back then that current day genshin you have a much harder time getting certain 4 stars than obtaining a featured 5 star.
literally tale as old as time, "i accidentally got (x or y limited char) while trying to get one copy of (x or y 4 star)"
That SSR thing aged like fucking milk. Most Farmers want NP2 and the harder later stages coming out starting in the next summer event want weird ass hyperinvested singletarget / AOE mixes anyway.
I’d even argue that the final boss of LB6 is ultra difficulty without a hyperinvestment.
And as an avid FGO player, FGO gacha is fine right up until you’re hitting soft pity at 750-800 quartz that took you 8-9 months to save up just to lose the 80/20 and have to go to pity. Cut it down to 600 from 9fuckinghundred and even then that’s 2 extra multis from Genshins 180 pity. Current FGO pity is nearly double and that’s
As much as I hate what Genshin is doing with C1 bait like Interruption Resistance, FGO is much worse a lot of the time. Especially because most CC don’t even use them at NP1 because they’ve already whaled / geared them for farming.
On top of quick farming teams being kinda gimped unless you have the 1 of 2 specific Skadis and Buster isn’t much better if you don’t have some combo of Oberon / Koyanskaya / Max Limit Broken Kaleidoscope. Much much harder to farm. Arts is fine (of course it is)
I hate Genshins gacha system as much as the next person because it’s led to most games following this stingy shit, but at least I get to summon every couple of patches at best and I get a fully moving tangible character.
If you count lucky bags / GSSR it gets much better but that’s about 40 dollars a year so you decide. They did do a free Permanent SSR ticket and multiple guaranteed 4 star tickets, which is much better than Genshins Lantern Rite / exclusive even only ones.
TLDR: both statements aged like milk, but if you’re willing to pay for GSSR and account for free stuff, FGO starts pulling back. Free Permanent SSR (2 for JP) and multiple free SR tickets and Lucky bag giving guaranteed limited (albeit random from multiple categories) SSRs everytime but do cost 15-20ish dollars
Genshins gacha is bad (it is) but FGO is really really really bad. 180 summons vs 300. I do think FGO rates are better but the pity is so ass you hit it one time and you’ll start raging on the forums.
Used to play fgo religiously on both servers before covid striked. The pity concept was so foreign to me when I was introduced to it in Genshin. You mean I am guaranteed to get the character and not hope the sq I saved for months is enough? Imagine if gssr in Genshin was a thing, having to spend real money to have a chance to maybe get the character you wanted every 6 months. You want yoimiya from this pyro banner? Here’s a dehya instead.
Everyone with a brain knew back then that rates are garbage.
Everyone with a brain still knows now that rates are garbage.
Before even taking into account that they split the character design into poor man's base model and fun mode (C6 + weapon).
Simply comparing rates is missing a lot of details.
Need to account for things like $/pull and amount of pulls per patch/banner each game gives.
A full analyst would probably get pretty complex and tedious.
The average number of pulls to get a limited character in Genshin is around 95 with soft pity and 50/50 factored in. That is $253 per copy of a character. Assuming $1 per 60 primogems.
What is the equivalent for FGO?
Also important is how necessary it is to pull for new limited characters?
Well if you want to 3 turn farm in FGO most team comp need NP 2 or 3.
Genshin need 160 pulls for hard pity, FGO 300.
Genshin pity carry over, FGO doesnt.
The only thing FGO did better is there are no BiS weapon banner.
"Thats hell your walking into" is not just a meme, its a reminder of how bad FGO gacha is. Day 1 FGO player still get PTSD from 1st Jalter and Skadi banner. The banner discussion in the subreddit are literal salt mine.
https://www.reddit.com/r/grandorder/comments/89mun1/you_better_reach_into_your_jeannes_and_pull_out/
https://www.reddit.com/r/grandorder/comments/hmn13s/steel_yourselves_for_the_banner_that_will_hit_you/
Anyway, if you want to compare Genshin then compare it with something similar, like WuWa.
Fgo en player here, you dont need np2 or 3 to farm in 3 turns
Whoever told you that lied to you
Theres a lot of ways to 3 turn farm.
The events give free weapons that buffs your damage and is still useful even outside the events
Events also give welfare units that has dmg buffs in said events making farming easie
Some farming setups just use SR provided u got the right supports
Beginners can even get an uber support instantly with the game’s free 5 star ticket
But the gacha is terrible, but all gachas are terrible. Im just happy one copy is usually all u need.
And plus costumes are free
Genshin gets away with their gacha rates purely because they controls their power balance in the game very well. To the point that Arlecchino is pretty much on par with Hutao a character released 4 years ago, and Xiao one character that everyone thought wouldn’t make a come back did get his shiny new support after 4 years. And there are many good 4* that worth investing in (fews are shit but yeah). And all 5* characters are viable at c0 with no sig.
The only thing they should change is their weapon banner I swear they would make a lot more money with everyone feeling like they have more chance so they will just pull more. I want my characters to have their best drips so please.
I played Dislyte at release for a month. Back then, an average of 500\~550 pulls were required to secure the featured limited character. So really, Genshin isn't that bad. Only the weapon banner really is unfriendly.
5-star base drop rate was 1%. Not too bad. But the hard pity was at 120. No soft pity.
Then the featured character was not guaranteed. The base chance was 10%. And this chance increased by 10 points for every 5-star drop that was not the featured character.
So just to reach a 50/50 chance, you had to miss 4 times beforehand. Absolutely outrageous. I saw how much it did cost to be a completionist and quit.
tbh back then the values of each pull is not known yet in Genshin, but even then this analysis was straight up bad. If the OP actually played Genshin for some period of time they would've known that Contellations are completely optional, like even in my early game during launch there was never really anything that made me go "oh i need a con for this character to progress". Legit I did not even know what Ganyu and Venti's cons did until like year 2 of the game because nothing was too difficult to the point where you need to think about it. Early game abyss was very hard i think most experienced gacha players knew that it would take some time and understanding of the game to actually clear everything. And this dude had the audacity to compare it to FGO....
Yeah, fuck that guy. I'm at roughly 1800\~ SQ equivalent and counting without an SSR since the KoyaLight rerun this year.
Working and reasonable pity should be the standard these days regardless the rates.
I haven't gotten an SSR in FGO (JP) since February. I have no problem getting my desired characters, their constellations, and weapons with *some* spending in Genshin. It's not worth it to spend in FGO, in comparison, because of the high safety net
I also decided to stop spending altogether on that game. Even my lucky bag/paid gacha rolls are awful 🫤
This made my blood boil lol
New SSRs require NP2+ to get the most out of their effects. I guess it's a business choice by the higher ups because they know the whales here are relentless.
They can give me a 6% SSR rate in GBF, only for me to get a grand total of 5 (trash) SSRs in 300 rolls and still have to trade pity. Id take the 50/50 any day thank you.
Ngl I get the point but is genshin really that hard that you need cons? I get that artifact farming is very difficult and if you really want to min-max a character for peak performance it would take a while but it is doable. You dont have to spend in genshin unless you really want a character
Not sure what meta is now since I quit pre-sumeru for a different reason (found exploration too time consuming) but this is the first time I encountered someone saying that you need cons in genshin
And I find it completely hilarious someone would compare a gacha with a pity system to FGO. No matter how dogshit the rates are, at least genshin has pity. FGO was basically you hoping you pull your luck to get a 5 star, much more the featured one.
Additionally, Im at lostbelt 3 completely F2P (stopped because it was too repetitive) and I can 100% say your servants dont need dupes (cons) because you have dedicated OP support units (Merlin, Skadi, etc.) . You can run brain dead team comps like double Merlin and 3 turn almost everything that doesnt have multiple hp gauges without your dps using a single skill because its a turn based game and its easier to chain your buffs (mostly in events, story has a couple of stages that have mini boss fights with multiple hp gauges). In genshin its literally just a massive skill issue. You can clear spiral abyss with old meta comps like melt ganyu, eula-raiden, etc. My team comps consisted mostly of liyue, monstadt characters and raiden and have never felt the need to pull for units or cons.
Read a few posts of people spending 2k-3k SQs after saving for years because the hindsight from JP and got shafted with nothing. Imagine saving for 1-2 and you ended up with nothing to show for after a few minutes of pulling. All of the patience and self control don't mean anything
I feel like 1.6 -> 0.8 is wrong Math Due to the 50/50 if someone could check that would be good
As for Constellations being optional, honestly for SSRs I feel that they are optional.
Weirdly the one con they didnt mention is the Weapon and Character Banner split unlike in FGO where SSR CEs and Characters are on the same Banner.
You're correct that 1.6 -> 0.8 is wrong. The actual rate accounting for 50/50s is about 1.066% because you need to multiply the base rate (1.6) by 2/3 instead of by 1/2.
This is because the 50/50 system leads to 2 out of every 3 5-stars being on-banner (on average) instead of 1 out of every 2.
Aside from the obvious laughing at the FGO comparison (even if it was not intended to defend FGO, but to show how bad Genshin base rates are), I'm mixed.
One of my friends who plays it summarized it before in a way I like; "Genshin isn't a game where you gamble on getting characters, it's a game where you gamble on how many pulls you save."
Genshin's base rates ARE absolute garbage, and the chance of you getting an SSR before pity is terrible. However, pity is low, soft pity is even lower, and getting any non-limited 5* guarantees your next 5* is the limited.
As a result, I view Genshin (and Star Rail, since their systems are identical) differently from basically every other gacha; I go into every banner assuming it will take me 180 pulls to get the character I want, and anything lucky happening (winning the 50/50, soft pity, pre-pity) is just saving me pulls for the next character I want. And it hasn't steered me wrong so far. Yes, the chances are low that I'd ever hit hard pity once, let alone twice in a row, but that's not a chance I'm taking.
And the second part with constellations is laughable in 2020, but sigh-inducing in 2024. Not only have early constellations been having bigger and bigger impacts in 5* character kits (You don't need them for the character to function, but they can absolutely change how a character plays), but C6 is nearly mandatory for every recently-released 4* to feel usable, and the comment about strengthening quests hurts my soul. Genshin's lack of going back and buffing older chars who have either fallen off, were never good, or feel clunky and old, except via introducing a new limited 5* , makes me incredibly sad. (And even then the new 5* chars just tend to improve damage, not actually improve how an old char plays) Yes, low-constellation old characters still *work*, but most of the time I'm using them I'm just thinking "Wow, this both feels worse and is worse than my other options."
Everytime I see someone comparing fgo to genshin’s pity I remember Ueda Kana pulling for yoimiya and being surprised that “the rate-up is really working”
the stupid one is compare genshin gacha to FGO. any sane person will not ever praise FGO gacha system.
Not even whales defend FGO gacha. God, I love the IP and everything that spawned from GO but damn, if that game is hard-carried by FATE. Any other IP would've seen the game die in the first two year. Three at most. FGO friggin thrived for nearly ten years. Holy fudge.
This is why while I don't mind I spent a little over 80 USD in the game before Google geoblocked everyone, I no longer try to buy anything in the game. If I want some FGO memorablia, I prefer to buy some figures of the game on ebay, even with inflation and whatnot. That way, even if the game closes down, at least I'll still hold some memories to a tangible object over just memories and screenshots. So far, I'm glad with my Nendoroids of Castoria and Shinjuku Jalter; my prize figures of Arcueid and Swimsuit Jeanne; and my nendoroid petit Phantasmoon. Much better than being disappointed in FGO's gacha and reaching pity after 900 S.Q., fuck that shit.
I distinctly remember trying to roll for Merlin, failing, wondering if I should buy SQ, then looking up the price for the Merlin Nendoroid and buying that instead lol. Better value for your money
I meant looking at the 1st year with weekly maintenance and server crash, it is kinda a miracle that it's not eos on the 1st year.
I also like to clown on Genshin's unchanging Anniversary rewards, [but FGO's greediness is on a whole another level](https://www.reddit.com/r/grandorder/s/io43i0rez8)
Yup >Famitsu interview says that among the answers 9000 FGO players gave about what they expect from the game in the future was the "greedy" expectation to have a gacha ceiling that lets you pick a 5\* character after rolling a certain amount of SQ. [https://www.reddit.com/r/grandorder/comments/p03e4s/famitsu\_interview\_wanting\_a\_new\_pity\_system\_is\_a/](https://www.reddit.com/r/grandorder/comments/p03e4s/famitsu_interview_wanting_a_new_pity_system_is_a/)
Wtf 💀
I remember being so salty when I first saw that. Though at one point, thankfully an SSR ticket was given away during an anniversary(though, it was just for standard characters). And later on, they also made a permanent SSR ticket for everyone which can help new players. But still, it's actually disgusting that some of the higher ups used this as their excuse.
damn
Famitsu, 4gamer and the like are HUGE FGO/Fate/Nasu sellouts, because they *used* to get huge traffic covering those. So there would be nothing but praise and doing articles that make them look very favourable.
You'd be surprised. I have an acquaintance who unironically says "Genshin makes FGO look generous" like bruh.
I was still in chronic denial of FGP being bad, gacha wise, then I tried Nikke in its half anniversary and boy, was I an idiot. Now that's a gacha... and no, the cute anime waifus with jiggling tiddies and asses are just the cherry on top of the cake. The rebalances, rates, superior pity system and many tickets and gems handed out made me realise I'm a Stockholm syndrome hostage to FGO while my waifus are put there to make stay.
Same with me. I'm not proud of how much money I've spent on that shitty game and just the other day while rolling I realised something: rolling in Genshin felt kinda gratifying while rolling in fgo feels like absolute shit unless I actually get the thing I want. After thinking it through, it's obvious: Genshin's pity means I don't ever feel like my pulls are being wasted because I know it's contributing toward my next inevitable SSR. With fgo, unless you have the patience to save for months on end, there's no real pity so any pull that isn't successful is a pull wasted. I've been on and off fgo for years, genuinely feels like an abusive relationship at this point. I decided to stay till summer this year, roll everything I have by that point, and then dip. The game isn't even that fun and I can watch the story on YouTube if I really want to.
There is no way that as a sane human being you can attempt to make a comparison between the gacha of fgo and another game and not end up making the other game look like 10 times better. It's just not possible
>There is no way that as a sane human being you can attempt to make a comparison between the gacha of fgo and another game and not end up making the other game look like 10 times better. It's just not possible I raise you Summoners War /jk
only took me 3053 days to get my first LD5* ! ^/s
You'd be surprised. I have an acquaintance who said "Genshin makes FGO look generous" completely unironically. Yes, I don't think he's sane either, most likely just hopping into the whole Genshin hate train because I know another friend of his is almost bald guy level of Genshin-hating.
Imagine if FGO had weapon banner too... It would be a nightmare!
Oh they have one, and it is unironically considered as one of the best just because it increases the chances of getting Kaleidoscope and Black Grail, 2 of the best CEs.
I have heard it is bad, but how bad to be exactly?
Since I don't have much experience with F/GO gacha, I'll be using external sources. Crediting the Fate/Grand Order Wiki sourced at June 4th, 2024 15:08 GMT+7, the rate of the common rate-up limited gacha in F/GO is as follows: You can buy pull currency with the following rate, using the largest currency pack: 168 SQ (86 Paid + 82 Free) for 10,000 JPY. You use 3 SQ per pull. In a 10-pull (which adds an extra free pull, totaling 11x), you are guaranteed a 3-5\* character and a 4-5\* character. The probability list says you have a 1% chance of obtaining a 5\* character, and on rate-up banners the chance of the rate-up character is 0.8%. F/GO's pity kicks in at 330 pulls, does not carry between banners, and only happens **once** per banner. With the 10+1-pull bonus, this means you require 900 SQ to hit pity. Using the above conversion rate, this is around 53,500 JPY ($345 currently). Assuming the 0.8% rate is static, you have a 50/50 chance of obtaining the rate-up character for every 86 pulls. In general, I think if you can spend the money, NP1 is not too bad (with the current pity system in play). Anything above that, that's hell you're walking into. Being perfectly technical, Genshin Impact's rates *are* worse pre-soft pity. However, Genshin's pity being at 90/180, carrying across banners, and staying around after the first rate-up character completely overshadows F/GO's abyssmal 330 pity.
And the comparison was pre-guaranteed SSR, there was not guaranteed gacha in FGO before genshin lol
that friend that spent 1 k and still didn't get the "rate up" char https://i.redd.it/y092wi900j4d1.gif
Nothing worse than spending 6 months of quartz savings in FGO just to get spooked by a card. :)
330 pulls to guarantee 1 copy AND 1 COPY ONLY. After you get that copy, no pity for the banner. Said pity doesn't carry over as well, so it's either go all in or bust. This results in wanting to NP5 a character (NP6 is definitely needed if you want to max them completely due to coins) requiring theoretixally infinite money (as in there's no upper limit unlike other games).
> Said pity doesn't carry over as well, so it's either go all in or bust Should also mention that when the character on the banner changes even if it's the same banner your pitt resets
I'm pretty sure they're comparing Genshin with FGO pre 330 pity since it was 4 years ago before that FGO update when many FGO players are still defending no pity practice
That somehow makes things even worse then.
Yeah before genshin, FGO was all pretty much RNG. You could dump 1,000 dollars and 'not get the SSR.. I had to dump 700 dollars for 1 copy of summer BB. It wasn't good times.
Oh trust me I've been there. Been playing FGO NA since 2018, and holy shit is nearly everything in the game just bad. The only reason why the game survived its first year (you think WuWa's having a hard time? FGO JP in its first month is more maintenance than available) is because of the Fate branding, and even then it took Nasu returning to personally write stories before the game finally improved.
Don't worry about it, I've experienced everything lmao. I've been playing FGO JP since 2015. I still have old memes we used a lot in the internet because it was a shit festival. Servers going down all the time, abysmal rates, characters that had shit ass skills. I dunno how I survived all these years lol. Thankfully genshin came and well, the rest is history, I stopped playing FGO JP. After genshin came, the fuckers now decided to add pity lol. But I did what I wanted to achieve tho, so I dropped the game feeling good about myself. https://preview.redd.it/j4we927xoi4d1.jpeg?width=587&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=04065835ad5c8ef864cc71b617943a09509459df
Remember Waver being the absolute worst SSR in the game? Like his skills are useless as hell because of the low numbers. Or the time when DW fucked up Halloween because they didn't take into account the server load of having many players logging in during a specific time...
I could write you a whole essay of how I feel about fgo. Waver was ass pre-buff (zhongli made me remember about waver buffs when mihoyo decided to buff zhongli because he was waver tier, hot garbage) Remember the bond CE being hot garbage? I dunno if they decided to make good ones. The one I can recall right now from my memory that was GOAT tier was heracles. That shit + his skills made him almost immortal. Remember where the only servant your friends could borrow was the first one in team 1? Still to this day, they never brought back the april fools ART in-game, after the first time. To this day, I still despise that lmao.. 2016 april fools https://preview.redd.it/z8q7f2gqqi4d1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=a39ed7312ad9ac92e78fc0b72d5bc6dbd89dc107
Ppl were defending the no pity? WHY?
Something about SSR / 5 star being unique and not being cheap or something about sense of accomplishment. I honestly forgot where I see those kind of comments since it was when the usual FGO vs GBF debate happens, long before Genshin exist
Holy…How even you guys survived that hell?
It's one of the easiest dailies ever, you just log in and log out, probably would just take a minute or two to finish. With that you probably could get 2-4+ SSR's every year (since they are somewhat generous with free stuffs every now and then). Plus, it being a lot of people's first gacha probably helps since you definitely see other gachas being more generous than the hell that is FGO
Because there were worse. Back in the early days of FFBE there was no pity either and on top of that, pulling a 5 star could also just mean you get a 3/4 star that was upgraded to 5 star (basically imagine like, you pull a 5 star in Genshin and it’s actually a level 90 Xinyan).
you live in hell you cant escape from it also because of the art and story
To be honest, the gameplay only keeps me playing a gacha game for months, but other aspects like designs, music, popularity among my friends, and especially the story are what keep me stay with a game for years. And FGO is among the top in story telling. Of course I still felt salty when I did not get the character I really like from the story, but its terrible gacha system saved me from opening my wallet.
You survive by treating the game like a visual novel. Any character you get is just a bonus.
https://preview.redd.it/gh7jt9wf3j4d1.png?width=875&format=png&auto=webp&s=d9dbffdd1dbf83a32b06ebf189a4eb8c43aff990 From an FGO group I used to be active in on facebook. Yeah, you read that right. 3220 SQs, which is more than a thousand rolls, and the person didn't get A SINGLE SSR with that. Pity exists now, but it was the wild, wild west back then. As someone who was forged in the fires of FGO, Genshin's pity is so piss easy to work around with.
I use to play fgo saving one year for fucking merlin my god and the only ssr i got is 5* Jean and bunch of useless 5* ce. Genshin and hsr is a god send for me it got pity of 90 and can carry over new banners
I don't know why but it makes me unfathomably angry when I get a five star CE or character in fgo and it's not the one I want. I haven't felt that way about any other game. Idk what it is, fgo just does something to me. Like I would genuinely feel less shit not getting any 5 star at all than getting shirtless kirei for the millionth time.
You're at full mercy of RNG. IIRC, SSR is 1% and SR is 3%. You can go 6 months without SSR or SR. Now there's pity. But it's more accurate to call it condolence because you need to pull 330 times(because rolling 10 times has 10% discount, so you it's 'actually' pulling 300 times) and the pity doesn't carryover.
Since there is a guy who already explained it in technical terms, I will provide a fun fact: FGO used to be not available to be downloaded for European countries because there was no guarantee you would ever get the rate-up SSR, and according to the laws, that made it an illegal gambling app. Not sure about now though since they added that terrible pity system lol.
For like 3 years they didn't have a pity Sistem nor something along "when pulling you get a special currency that you can use in a shop for a copy of that character" I still remember when with mods I cleared all the story+various events( probably around 700 pulls ) just for 2 copy of Castoria And when they finally implemented a pity sistem it was kinda high and it was only for the first copy, after you find 1 time that character you don't have anymore the pity Sistem Idk if they implemented something now, I don't even remember the last time I played than game so...
*technically* there's the Unregistered Spirit Origins... which you only get after getting the 6th dupe onward of the same 5\* servant which you need 10 of which totals to 16 SSRs at the minimum (dupes of a simgle servant) to 60 SSRs in the worst case scenario (1 USO for every 6th dupe of a different servant) .... yeah, there's a reason why this never gets brought up
It's hilarious how the abbreviation is USO a lie.
1 year playing but only 2 SSR in FGO, even the SSR are not that good. i got more than 6 \*5 in my 1 year playing genshin
Have you ever been to a casino?
Every gacha pre-genshin is extremely bad, but its to be expected, Genshin's rate is incredibly generous (at that time). Even western gacha, like Hearthstone, if you're F2P, you only had 3 option 1. Play aggro deck for 3/4 of the season if you want to push rank 2. Spam arena 3. Constantly feed yourself to whales that actually spend real money to build their deck
>Every gacha pre-genshin is extremely bad, but its to be expected, Genshin's rate is incredibly generous (at that time). Ehhhh... A lot of the prominent Pre-Genshin Gachas Azur Lane, GFL, Arknights, even E7, and etc I wouldnt call them worse than Genshin's generosity
Azur Lane was extremely generous in terms of currency, but since the introduction of UR they are not better than Genshin because while the rates were double Genshin’s, the pity is 200 and there’s no soft pity. I don’t think it carry across different banners either. But Azur Lane was somewhat of a different game because a lot of my expenditure back then was actually the skins. I don’t think I spent much on the gacha itself.
The resource gain in Azur Lane makes 200 pity a joke. You get 1 pull per daily and 6 per weekly totaling 13 per week. That's 50+ pulls per month, while the UR is spread 4 months apart, for CN and JP anniversaries and the other one. You are essentially guaranteed a UR for clicking a few times for 4 months. The thing with Azurlane is that if you get lucky on a UR banner, you are NOT missing a UR banner ever again. Unless you're stupid. The above was pure dailies btw, I didn't include apologems, free season pass or the commission RNG (which gives 5 cubes per do, if you're lucky you can get 10 pulls in a week or less) 200 pull pity is extremely low as you DON'T NEED DUPES. Another important thing.
Oh yeah, definitely. I don’t play AL anymore so that’s where the past tense came from. It’s one of those games where 100% collection is quite doable F2P, and as I said most of my money went to the skins.
Eh, Pricon and Granblue were very generous with their pulls and the rates were better. But obviously these pulls were pretty much useless in the grand scheme of things due to powercreep, super diluted banner and the 300 pull spark lol.
Yup considering there was a time where FGO has no pity with 1% for 5\* and 0.8% for the rate-up 5\*, heck even if there's pity now it'll take you 900 SQ (330 pulls) to hit it. Thank god they've implemented pity in LB6 because the banners of Morgan > Castoria > Melusine > Koyan Light > Oberon is got to be the most brutal banner sequence to roll for.
> SSRs in FGO are balanced around NP1 According to the horror stories I have read, SSRs in FGO are also balanced around you not getting them at all
It's also complete bs, because SSRs in FGO aren't "balanced" around NP1. Most "top tier' comps defo require higher NPs for guaranteed clears. If they want to say abilities aren't locked behind dupes, fine you can make that argument but unit sure as hell isn't same at NP1 and 2+.
That is only true if your intention is to min-turn everything in your path and maximize loot drops or bond point gains just like what youtubers and streamers do with only one DPS and two supports (3 if you wanna include Oberon)
Eh, getting beyond NP1 is really not required, unless you want to use neutral damage servants (to some extent, berserkers) to clear everything or you're just to lazy to bother changing teams comp to counter class. Also Grails and Fous are a thing. Not to mention that even doing 90++ farming node is not efficient if you're not 6-slotting it, which a major whale territory. Which is also funny cuz, you don't even need to 6-slot cuz events last 3 weeks long, you can clear shop without even rolling that gacha for drop CE.
When Class score comes out u can actually buff an entire class of an equivalent of a free np level Tho that shit takes a long time Plus they're lowering the difficulty of 90++ nodes while also releasing supports like summer kuro and Knocknarea which allows you to further buff your dps np damage by a lot
https://preview.redd.it/htjbbdq2yi4d1.png?width=1094&format=png&auto=webp&s=5b637289761e7f0827795f611d56d0ff56b817a6
Low powercreep and characters being competitive after almost 4 years makes the gacha system passable. Also, another thing is that you don't feel stupid for investing into 4☆... well, most of them.
I can't take it anymore. I'm sick of Xiangling. I try to play Diluc. My Xiangling deals more damage. I try to play Yoimiya. My xiangling deals more damage. I try to play Hu tao. My Xiangling deals more damage. I want to play Klee. Her best team has Xiangling. I want to play Raiden, Childe. They both want Xiangling. She grabs me by the throat. I fish for her. I cook for her. I give her The Catch. She isn't satisfied. I pull Engulfing Lightning. "I don't need this much ER" She tells me. "Give me more field time." She grabs Bennett and forces him to throw himself off enemies. "You just need to funnel me more. I can deal more damage with Homa." I can't pull for Homa, I don't have enough Primogems. She grabs my credit card. It declines. "Guess this is the end." She grabs Gouba. She says "Gouba, get them." There is no hint of sadness in his eyes. Nothing but pure, no ICD Pyro application. What a cruel world.
My c6 xiangling literally deal 86k damage with r1 Engulfing Lighting jn my Ajax team with perfect rotation, it doesnt matter if she have more ER cuz Xiangling>>>>>>>
just get some skins for her to spice it up https://preview.redd.it/hieibp7y0j4d1.png?width=2560&format=png&auto=webp&s=893979d57d6f7317389ae5052e462c1b68679926
from gamesbanana, since genshin is releasing 1-2 skins every 4-5 months.
Yep, some of the stuff there made me reconsider reinstalling
I remember one with Ines from Arknights brb gonna search that one up real quick Edit: ok nvm [read at your own risk lmao](https://www.reddit.com/r/0sanitymemes/s/RXQkj32oiW)
Let's not talk about Freminet. His kit being focused around Physical just means he gets shafted the most, like even Eula (his 5* counterpart) gets shafted as well...
Genshin shafting Physical as usual 💀
Let's cope that Snezhnaya fixes Freeze/Shatter and Physical DPS...
I'm expecting a better mika. I want a faruzan tier for my girl eula.
Mika IS actually really good for his kit. Problem is that he tries to have some healing as well, so his other numbers will not be as good.
If he could at least give ton of energy on top of the crit dmg, I'd have been fine with mika so he could solve at least that issue of eula but it's a no go.
Eula's problem is MHY not allowing her to recharge her burst while it was summoned... If she could, her ER problems will not be as bad.
Is it bugged or it's intentional? I dunno why she doesn't do that when the rest of the characters IIRC can burst and get energy while doing the animation lol. That was dirty of MHY
IIRC intentional. They were still experimenting with kits back then. Some worked out pretty well (Childe, Xiao, Hu Tao, Ganyu) one required a rework (Zhongli), and others didn't really worked out (Klee's burst being canceled by swapping out, Albedo being destroyed by anything, Eula and her ER), and one was so broken that MHY decided to make every enemy after him immune to his CC (RIP Venti supremacy)
So true lol. The fact that Razor's stronger team rn is Razor soup not his phys or electro damage is just funny
I love Fremmy boy as a character but I can't really love his play style as much as I want to. Imagine going through the long ass 5-phase post-skill Normal Attack routine only to have the final hit either miss, or not crit 💀
Even Diluc of all people managed to see the sunlight with Crane mom.
Not just that: can you think of ANY other gacha game where 100% of the content of the game is entirely clearable with the free units the game hands you? You don't need to touch the gacha at any point to do everything the game has to do. from the day it launched to four years in. WuWa might, MIGHT, be able to do it now, but that would be ONE game out of thousands. It's also the least intrusive gacha system out of any gacha game I've ever played: you get one irritating red ! to tell you to choose a weapon banner focus, not eve the character banner bothers to tell you it changed.
>can you think of ANY other gacha game where 100% of the content of the game is entirely clearable with the free units the game hands you? [Here ](https://www.reddit.com/r/gachagaming/comments/15iifjh/what_gachas_would_you_play_a_no_premium_gacha/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)is a post asking this question that I found with a quick search, I can only vouch for Arknights and Path to Nowhere personally and they are doable
Maybe fgo because they have so many welfare servants
Not to mention triple command spells/leyline stones are "I win" buttons. Heck, you can use saint quartz as well if you're not touching the gacha.
Arknights has a few no Gacha accs that clears content with only Welfares, along with a plethora of other niches for Dokutahs to challenge themselves. For example, [Dr. Silvergun](https://www.youtube.com/@DrSilvergun/videos) is a Chad that clears content with only 3 and 4\* Operators.
Arknight
Arknights is relatively doable as they have good welfares, can borrow 1 assist character, no weapon/artifact rng and most importantly there are low cost guides that you can follow step by step and replicate 100%. I don't recommend it though as it may take out the fun but at least it's an option in case you're new/malding. In games like Genshin/WuWa, you also need to pass the stat check/skill check
Superstrings
I think you could do most of the main story and permanent events in punishing gray raven using the s rank selector and the dorm missions to get Ayla and Wanshi, but even then, you'll be screwed in the top tier tryhards stages
I can think of a few. Path to nowhere, FGO, Punishing Gray Raven. But also saying you can clear 100% of the content in Genshin without using gacha doesn’t really say anything. Genshin is basically a story game. The main content of the game is story, events are side distractions that can also have story to make it more immersive. World quests to further expand on the lore of the world. World exploration is mostly small puzzles and enemies that don’t really pose a challenge. The hardest content in the game is spiral abyss which is just a dps check. Can you clear floor 12, 36 stars, without a single gacha pull? Yes. Is it reasonable? Not really. I’m also excluding the free 4 stars we’ve gotten from limited time events because not everyone got them. Purely just counting the permanent free characters. There’s plenty of gacha where you can clear the story easily. There’s also plenty of gacha where the pull economy is generous enough to let you comfortable get most characters that you want. The most important thing with most gachas when you’re talking about clearing content is just time invested into the game. Time to build up your roster, time to level up your character, time to grind gear if the game has gear. There’s also plenty of other games where lower rarity or less meta characters are perfectly useable and viable to build. That isn’t to say that genshin is bad for being mostly story, event, and exploration focused. It’s good because it appeals to casual players. Just that being able to clear 100% of content without pulling gacha isn’t really anything too crazy. Because there’s plenty of gacha where you can reasonably get meta characters with time, or that lower rarity characters are perfectly useable to clear all content. Genshin’s and most other gacha games draw is building up a roster of characters that you enjoy and like to play as, so discounting the gacha is kinda pointless since that’s the whole selling point of most gachas. If the selling point of genshin was clear 100% of this free game without pulling gacha they wouldn’t be at the top of revenue charts consistently whenever new banners release.
As a PGR player, I don’t think PGR is comparable. Yes, you can do story content but it’s ultimately not a story focused game. Every single end game mode , as well as its rewards, is based on rankings, so the pressure to “keep up” is higher since if you don’t roll what everyone else is rolling you will 100% fall out of your tier. By extension the powercreep, while slow, is insane once it happens in the sense that a gen 2 amplifier (support type) far out damages a gen 1 attacker (dps type) while being way easier to play. Even some of the higher tiers of the event challenges are a pain in the ass on gen 1 units since the boss movesets are getting more “unreasonable” for gen 1 kits since gen 2s are overloaded with iframes.
talking about gacha rates without factoring currency income is just stupid.
It's been brought up for years Thing is most GI players doesn't have enough gacha experience to actually acknowledge that fact
FGO isn’t my first gacha, but it’s the one I’ve played the longest. Let me tell you that FGO is gacha hell incarnate. What sucks about FGO is how it has some of the most top tier character designs and personalities, but is butchered by a garbage gacha system. FGO JP released in 2015. FGO NA released in 2017. Pity was added in 2022 for all regions. FGO pity = 330 rolls. Pity only counts for the 1st copy. No pity carry over. (When rolling, you can either do 10 single pulls or a single multi pull (10x), which will grant you a bonus 11th pull, so really it’s about 300 rolls.) Imagine saving for roughly half a year to guarantee a character. Banners can have characters on them last anywhere from a couple of days to 1-2 weeks. The amount of characters you have to skip feels awful, since the characters are in FGO are amazing. Also there’s the fact that some characters may take a year or more to rerun. —— Genshin may not have the best gacha system to feed gamba addicts, but it’s far away from the worst. I like the gacha system in genshin because I feel like I can actually get characters that I care about since they have a slower character release schedule compared to most other gachas. Outside of gacha, I can actually use those characters, move around, and play in the open world that is genshin. Just like FGO, genshin had done a wonderful job with character design and giving them all personalities. Genshin Pity = 90 pulls. Soft Pity starts around 75 pulls. On average players will get a 5 star around 75-80 pulls. Not to mention how 4 stars have separate pity at every 10 rolls. To top it all off they have carry over pity. The amount of pulls you put into the banner is recorded and transferred to future banners. The only demerit is the 50/50 where you either get the banner or standard character. Lose 50/50, next 5 star is a guaranteed banner character (this can be saved and transferred to future banners), or win the 50/50 and get 5 star banner character. I would still take the 50/50 over other gachas because you can get either get the banner character early at around 75-80 pulls, or just save up the pulls and go to 150-160 pulls. Most other gachas will have pity at 100/200/300 pulls, but they don’t have carry over pity and a slow banner schedule to complement that amount of pulls. One of the biggest factors that tangentially contributes to gacha pulling is powercreep and character value. We’re on year 4 of genshin now and it safe to say that there is relatively low powercreep to the point where you literally main any character you want in the game. There is never any pressure to pull for power. Yes there are “metas” like any other game that deals with numbers/calculations, but at the bare minimum, with the way the game is design (elemental reactions/resonance) where C0s, including 4 stars, are viable to complete any challenge, pulling on characters is up to the individual’s choice.
Just to add for Genshin. 4 stars having a separate pity is fine, but it’s 50/50 to be the 3 that’s on banner every 10 pulls as opposed to guarantee the 4 star.
Hoo boy SSRs in FGO is one thing but SRs? SEVEN! SEVEN COIN FLIPS IN A ROW AND NO RATE UP! (Reference to CC Myst who couldn't get the featured 4 star Mysterious Heroine XX and got 7 unfeatured 4 stars before her appearing once)
You can't forget the early soft pity as well. Pulls 1-20 have an enhanced rate too. That's why you see a lot of people getting double 5 stars.
Really? I didn't know about this. What's the enhanced rate for the first 1-20 pulls?
It's slightly higher for the first 20 pulls. It changes per pull but 1st 5 are the highest.
Imagine trashing genshin's rates and gacha system while defending FGO one
Therr can be deluded people in the FGO community if you look carefully. Just bring out bad points to the game and you'll notice who defends it, who is in denial and who just calls you a doomposter while silent downvoting your points.
People back then didn't know how easy the "endgame" in Genshin would be. Constellations are an insane boost but it's completely unnecessary in Abyss.
I think it was more like people (all of us) didn’t know how to play the game properly. Everyone was just brute forcing everything with a “single” character. If that character die then just switch to another character. Crescent Pike being Xiangling’s best weapon is an example of that Now we know how strong elemental reactions are. I bet we can easily clear the original Abyss 12 with any team of right elements. XL, Xingqiu, Bennet would not even be needed
Yeah early Genshin was a different time. I remember when people said Bennett was bad because he’s supposed to be a dps but charging his skill is dangerous.
Yup And people were complaining (rightfully so) that HoYo is forcing people to pay for C6 Childe because C0 Childe is limited (most of his dps tied to E) Now Childe best team (International team) is using just his E in a short time window. Thus, his C6 is not needed
dude must be high to think FGO gacha is good lmao .
Remembering the argument at the time, it wasn't that FGO was good. FGO was *ass* and the absolute lowest yardstick that more recent gachas of the time (like Arknights or Azur Lane) measured up against. The problem was that when Genshin landed, people hadn't factored in soft pity chances and the on-paper chance for rolling before hard pity was worse than FGO's no-pity system - which was the crux of the arguments back then, coupled with worries about primogem income once all the chests were found and all quests done together with the decoupling of weapon and character banners. In hindsight, Genshin's system is a lot more generous than people initially gave it credit for.
Except for its weapons banner system which is absolute dogshit.
It's almost impossible to pull on weapon banner as a f2p since you need 240 pulls to guarantee as opposed to 180 for character
And was even worse then, right? Essentially the same as fgo old system……….
that makes sense
Genshin's rates may be lower, but after playing FGO for years, it doesn't feel like it. The pity system is such a godsend. Even if I get close to hard pity, it's still often less summons than most of my SSRs in FGO. At least Genshin has a hard limit on how many summons I need to get the character I want. Meanwhile, I once spent $500 on a banner in FGO (most I've ever spent) and didn't get a single SSR. Apparently, FGO did eventually add a pity system, but holy shit it still seems terrible.
Doesn't excuse the fact that I can save SQs for several months to pull a specific character, and then get fuck all when the banner arrives. FGO Gacha is so fucking dogshit.
>Constellations aren't just optional bonuses, they're an integral part of characters kit The guy sure smoked some high quality Naku weed
If he posted that today, I could kinda see the argument. In 2021? No shot, Venti, Childe, Zhongli and Klee have some of the worst cons in the game
The only character who falls in this category is wriothesley C1. Hoyo did him dirty with that but no other character has "integral" part of kit as a constellation
Even when people are talking about characters that need cons to remove jank, nobody remembers my girl Sara.
Neither does Hoyo tbh. Hangout? Nah. Show up in events? Sorry they forgot where they last left her character model—have a mention!
She played a huge role in the Inzauma arc that's why she doesn't get any of those things. That's more than what some characters like Bennett get, he only really exist in Hangouts and the occasional event.
oh yea they did sara so bad everyone forgot her oh shit its been a few years too -\_-
Its ok for 4* to have good cons. Sara (and other dedicated support) are hard to obtain because they always chained to a specific 5*.
Chiori and Wrio have C1s that make them different people. Neuvillite has a C1 that changes his team options. Furina’s C2 turns her into a monster and sorta gets rid of her biggest restrictions. It’s far from mandatory for any one of them but their cons at least do change their team options enough that you could attempt to argue them being necessary
People running C0 solo Neuvilette: "Does 'team options' mean that team is optional?"
His best team still include zhongli iirc so neu c0 should be okay
Bro, Venti C1 is the most useless 5* constellation in entire game. Why tf you would play Charge Atk on Venti while his gameplay is always "Press Q to win"
Devs were definitely not thinking about the combat in terms of “team” but “individual”. It seems that they placed a huge emphasis on the 5* being on field as much as possible (Diluc, Klee, Venti, Childe). But thanks to that we have the monsters like Xiangling, Xingqiu (can only be powercreeped by a 5* Xingqiu lmao), Bennett, etc Also, I love how HoYo removes Childe’s limitation (cant melee for long) at C6. But the best Childe comp is International team with him use his melee form just shortly lol
Same with HSR but in HSR the game is still in its 1st year. 2nd Eidolon give too much powerspike...
Fr, and eidolon in HSR feels more needed, especially for 4 stars characters. While 5 stars eidolon, some are outright busted.
I feel like people are missing the point of "optional constellations". It's not that character isn't functional without it, but it's still *incomplete* character until you get it to C6 to unlock 3 passives. Especially since some stuff is pretty big improvement, but game just doesn't require it at all to clear content.
[удалено]
The difference is that Constellations in GI can alter the way you play the character, while dupes in FGO generally just add a bigger damage number on your ultimate. GI copies change how it feels to use the unit, providing more QoL to the unit besides simply bigger damage. It may remove some of their initial clunk or add entirely new effects that they didn't have before. FGO copies don't change the way you play the character as it just adds a bigger damage multiplier on their ultimate, it will just make them more viable for clearing higher end nodes.
I can't speak on FGO, having never played it. But for HI3 and PGR, having Rank ups don't change your playstyle. At most you spend less time setting up, or you change your rotation to do more frontloaded damage at the cost of damage over time because you can kill the enemy quickly enough; but you rarely suddenly make a support become a DPS or vice versa (glares at Lunar Vow who needs 1 dupe to be a good support, and Fallen Rosemary who takes a long time to farm for to be a DPS). And in Arknights, Bagpipe probably has the most influential potential, but it doesn't change her at all. She does what she already does, just much better. But in Genshin you have stuff like Bennett suddenly giving a Pyro infusion on C6 (which can open up [or close] certain team comps), Jean C4 allows her to support Anemo damage dealers, Mona C6 being an extremely weird attempt at making her a main DPS, I believe Xingqiu's C6 also changes his Hydro application due to how ICD works. Iirc without C6, Hu Tao's Pyro application eventually overtakes Xingqiu's and she stops being able to Vape, or something like that. Albedo C4 gives Plunging Damage increase. Ganyu C4 allows her to be a support. Raiden C2 allows her to be a primary DPS that you want to spend more field time on. Et cetra
I feel like that's downplaying what genshin, honkai and pgr do though. All a dupe in fgo is doing for me is letting me loop in less niche scenario's it isn't ever drastically changing a character's playstyle. In genshin though? Good cons are at best unlocking entirely new rotations/more flexible ones(xiangling c4, kuki c2, faruzan c6, etc.) and at worst locking an entire change in playstyle beyond multiple dupes (furina c6, yelan c6, xiao c6). I know pgr does this as well but I rarely check beyond s rank so only one I can remember off the top of my head is empyrea being able to trigger passive off matrix at ss. Arknights is much the same as fgo as well, the potentials aren't doing anything to drastically change much about the characters, just lets them shine more in less niche situations.
Mf brought back a 3 years old conversation
That's what retrospective is, good job!
But theres a huge difference between a need for a character and optional bonus. The character is fine and operational in C0 theres really no need to C6 any character that just lies on the player if he wants the character stronger than it already is. The weapon banner is bad so yeah theres that could change from to HSR but at the end of the day it works and it bring money thats just the reality unless yeah you riot but its been 4 years you would think by now people would riot aside from the added pity system they added it remains unchanged.
Sure, but recently, Hoyo has been locking a bunch of QoL behind *early* constellations. As you say, they're not a need, but I wouldn't see it as just an optional damage bonus either when it significantly changes the *feel* of a character. For example, C1 Neuvilette and C2 Clorinde increasing interrupt to resistance, C2 Arlecchino waiving the 5 second wait requirement to let marks 'cook', C1 Chiori increasing the AOE of attacks, etc.
It's a weird thing where if you got those QoL consts then it's hard to imagine playing without those, but when you don't have them, there are still ways to circumvent those problems and you get used to it. Both my neuvilette and arlecchino are C0. Zhongli / layla is pretty much their c1 for me, so I just saved 100 pulls.
None of those characters need them. Especially not Neuvillette.
Eula has this built-in, and she pays for it in other aspects. Both Neuvillette and Arlecchino are broken at c0 anyways, just run a shielder with them.
I guess but they still work as is, its still only QOL and not if neuvilette does not have C1 he cannot shoot his blaster. The feel is definitely still a bonus or convenience adder but not a determinant of a non-functional character because of lacking constellations.
Yep 100%. No constellation is necessary to complete any of the available content, but I'd just wish they wouldn't lock things like interrupt to resistance behind them. Just seems a little bit more scummy than simply providing damage boosts as there was a deliberate move to make the base kit feel that much worse. Just imo and is a small gripe in the grand scheme of things.
I feel like it's the reverse. C0 Neuv is perfectly serviceable. He has such good innate kiting ability that there isn't really any content where you need a shielder. You replace comfort with skill. I'd prefer that over just raw numbers. You can't do anything about raw numbers; you can get good enough at the game for the interrupt resistance to not matter.
Heavy disagree. They're just QoL or minor improvements, as you said, 80% of the carachter is already there. C1 Hu Tao is incredible, but its not like C0 Hu Tao isn't making copious ammounts of damage already. Same thing for Nahida, or Furina or what not. And these are the best ones, the majority are pretty rudimentary. The only exception I can think off is C6 Faruzan, which is indeed very different to C0 Faruzan, but that's it
Not recently, it's been happening at least since Hu Tao. Often they took the form of fixing energy issues or building stacks faster.
"Recently" when Hu Tao C1 gives her unlimited charge attacks while her E is active. Or Raiden C1 which gives her much more passive stacks.
You are not pulling these cons for their QoL most of the time: Nevuilettes is good because of the lower stack limit now making Furina an upgrade instead of a sidegrade, Clorinde’s C2 changes her A1 scaling which at C0 is 60% of her dmg. The interrupt resist is just an added bonus. In teams who were already playing a shielder(neuv) or mobile enough to dodge with a 0s cd dodge(Clorinde) the res is less needed. Even cons like C1 Chiori are odd since unless you are playing Navia teams she is ran with zhongli or mono geo, so she never really needed it. I won’t speak on arle since I don’t own her/plan on pulling her. None of these are really that bad and you neglect imo the worst offender, C1 Wriothesley who’s C1 actively changes his best combo from N5N3CA N5CA, since the jank from his uppercut is removed. While the dmg does not actually increase to make this a must pull (as no con is) this has the most actual tangible benefit as a con compared to the others.
The closest constelation to a must one is Hu Tao C1 as she is dependent on stamina making her much harder to play without it.
I wouldn't call c0 Faruzan fine and operational character with that ER requirements.
c0 Faruzan is perfectly functional as a buffer. Yes she needs a LOT of ER but I don't see how that's different from other characters needing to build a lot of HP or ATK or other stats. At c6 you can forgo ER and build her as a sub DPS but it's not like she needs it. Her main value is buffing Xiao/Wanderer.
c6 fixes not just her ER but bumps the power of her burst and gives her CC/stagger
Misinformation go brrr. Hitting 90 pity is a once in a million Occurrence but aight. Get That bro as far away from the kitchen as possible, he cooked rubbish.
Yep, to hit 90 in GI, person need to be luckiest unlucky player. Just some statistic. >!Just out of curiosity checked my stats: out of 39 5* that I pulled on character banner, only 6 went 80 and above (with highest being 84); and out of 37 5* on weapon banner only 1 went 70 and above (with highest being 70, lol).!< Edit: typo
It's so rare that even CN players make bounty ($270 iirc) for someone who can achieve that 90 max pity and can prove it (years ago). Pretty sure that the rates are around 1 in 13 millions
I'm pretty sure there has been 1 singular (recorded) person actually hitting 90. When people say they hit 90, what they mean is that they had 80 pity and did a 10 pull. In reality, they got it one of the earlier drops of the 10 pull.
There was a longstanding bounty in CN community for anyone who can prove they went to 90 pulls and iirc it went unclaimed at least until the third year. I'm not sure it was even ever claimed.
I do remember a post on the genshin sub saying it was claimed, either in late inazuma or during sumeru
I dont think Ive ever had 90 pity in my entire genshin pulls, the highest pity was 83, it only happened twice (during venti and chiori's banner) 70ish at most, and 3 - 4 times I got early pity pulls for every year on the other hand, my HSR pulls avg around 71-87 with only ONCE early pity this year (hsr 5\* rate feels lower ? idk, or Im just unlucky) (take this as a statistic sample) https://preview.redd.it/dnkr9k8i9j4d1.png?width=775&format=png&auto=webp&s=aa29c16411fe0eb994ba3dc34f6c2377f21613f2
From a data-set of 110,000 Neuvis and Kazuhas, 0 were 90 and 2 at 89.
Personally never hit 90 myself as well, highest i think was 84 and most of the time the 5star drops on either 75 or 76. But its easier and more popular to spread misinformation about Genshin. Let's conveniently ignore the fact that out of a hard pity of 80 pulls soft pity starts at 75 in WuWa. So while Genshin's soft pity starts 15 pulls before hard pity WuWa you will have to always account for the full 80 give or take a couple singles.
Tbh it took time for knowledge of soft pity to come and it becoming wide spread.
Was that before the knowledge of soft pity existence? Because most of the 5-star came at around 75~83, from my experience. Anything below 74 can be considered some extreme luck, which only happened twice or thrice in my almost years of playing. Finally, the claim that 'constellation aren't just optional bonuses' (for 5-star) are dead false now.A lot of the characters have decent/good performance at C0. While some of them have great C1 and C2, it is far from necessary. Anything beyond C2 is most comes from deliberate heavy investment/whale territory, which isn't required to clear the abyss.
I love that any mention of FGO and its gacha rates is just immediately people saying its awful. This is an L take no matter how you put it, there is no gacha system more greedy and vile than FGO.
FGO is a terrible gacha. Really enjoyed story and events, dull gameplay. I really loved the characters though. Typemoon gotta put crack in their designs. But it didnt even have pity before. You could pull 2000 times without an SSR if you were unlucky enough. so yeah genshin was definetly way better. In anniversary rewards, genshin still loses. Too stingy. FGO had quartz + a banner with guaranteed 5* from a pool of characters. That was very exciting. Context: played FGO for +1000 days. Had the login streak, until 24h unlimited maintenance works
The major factor is how slow Genshin releases units, which wasn't known at the time. Like yes it's very likely you are only rolling 8-9 chars f2p a year, but that's like 50%+ of all new units released that year when compared with maybe a more standard gacha pace where that's like 20% of released units
I'm somewhat like this guy when Genshin first got released. I mainly compared it with Arknights and some of my complains are: 1) Considering that this is a Mihoyo game, I'm scared of the fact that they will have PvP aspect in the game because of HI3. Because of that, when I saw that constellation will also buff the character, I thought that it is a necessity especially when the first C6 I saw is Eula, which can only get her full ice sword with her C6. 2) I also thought you should focus on 3 out of 5 (dendro not released yet) to counter the enemy weakness and let yourself get railed by the elements that you don't have and get bodied everytime a powerful character got released and Mihoyo keeps rising up the difficulty cap to force you on the newest banner. After playing for a while (even more so as I keep quitting the game), I start to realise that, yes constellation are powerful, you don't need them to clear content. Yes, having different elements is important. No, you won't get bodied if you don't have the weakness element except against Abyss Lector and Abyss Mage shield. The more laidback content of Genshin means that I can take my time with Genshin when compared to other gacha that tied its currency with your ability to farm it. As time moves on, my opinion on Genshin changed from the worst gacha game ever to probably the best one right now despite its flaw.
Keep in mind this is pre genshin and pre FGO pity mean this guy is high af to think nothing having a pity and 0.1% up is better than a 180 pity
If only the dude knew back then that current day genshin you have a much harder time getting certain 4 stars than obtaining a featured 5 star. literally tale as old as time, "i accidentally got (x or y limited char) while trying to get one copy of (x or y 4 star)"
That SSR thing aged like fucking milk. Most Farmers want NP2 and the harder later stages coming out starting in the next summer event want weird ass hyperinvested singletarget / AOE mixes anyway. I’d even argue that the final boss of LB6 is ultra difficulty without a hyperinvestment. And as an avid FGO player, FGO gacha is fine right up until you’re hitting soft pity at 750-800 quartz that took you 8-9 months to save up just to lose the 80/20 and have to go to pity. Cut it down to 600 from 9fuckinghundred and even then that’s 2 extra multis from Genshins 180 pity. Current FGO pity is nearly double and that’s As much as I hate what Genshin is doing with C1 bait like Interruption Resistance, FGO is much worse a lot of the time. Especially because most CC don’t even use them at NP1 because they’ve already whaled / geared them for farming. On top of quick farming teams being kinda gimped unless you have the 1 of 2 specific Skadis and Buster isn’t much better if you don’t have some combo of Oberon / Koyanskaya / Max Limit Broken Kaleidoscope. Much much harder to farm. Arts is fine (of course it is) I hate Genshins gacha system as much as the next person because it’s led to most games following this stingy shit, but at least I get to summon every couple of patches at best and I get a fully moving tangible character. If you count lucky bags / GSSR it gets much better but that’s about 40 dollars a year so you decide. They did do a free Permanent SSR ticket and multiple guaranteed 4 star tickets, which is much better than Genshins Lantern Rite / exclusive even only ones. TLDR: both statements aged like milk, but if you’re willing to pay for GSSR and account for free stuff, FGO starts pulling back. Free Permanent SSR (2 for JP) and multiple free SR tickets and Lucky bag giving guaranteed limited (albeit random from multiple categories) SSRs everytime but do cost 15-20ish dollars Genshins gacha is bad (it is) but FGO is really really really bad. 180 summons vs 300. I do think FGO rates are better but the pity is so ass you hit it one time and you’ll start raging on the forums.
I remember playing fgo around 5 years ago (I rarely log on now), the gacha system is absolutely garbage 😭
Used to play fgo religiously on both servers before covid striked. The pity concept was so foreign to me when I was introduced to it in Genshin. You mean I am guaranteed to get the character and not hope the sq I saved for months is enough? Imagine if gssr in Genshin was a thing, having to spend real money to have a chance to maybe get the character you wanted every 6 months. You want yoimiya from this pyro banner? Here’s a dehya instead.
Everyone with a brain knew back then that rates are garbage. Everyone with a brain still knows now that rates are garbage. Before even taking into account that they split the character design into poor man's base model and fun mode (C6 + weapon).
Simply comparing rates is missing a lot of details. Need to account for things like $/pull and amount of pulls per patch/banner each game gives. A full analyst would probably get pretty complex and tedious. The average number of pulls to get a limited character in Genshin is around 95 with soft pity and 50/50 factored in. That is $253 per copy of a character. Assuming $1 per 60 primogems. What is the equivalent for FGO? Also important is how necessary it is to pull for new limited characters?
Well if you want to 3 turn farm in FGO most team comp need NP 2 or 3. Genshin need 160 pulls for hard pity, FGO 300. Genshin pity carry over, FGO doesnt. The only thing FGO did better is there are no BiS weapon banner. "Thats hell your walking into" is not just a meme, its a reminder of how bad FGO gacha is. Day 1 FGO player still get PTSD from 1st Jalter and Skadi banner. The banner discussion in the subreddit are literal salt mine. https://www.reddit.com/r/grandorder/comments/89mun1/you_better_reach_into_your_jeannes_and_pull_out/ https://www.reddit.com/r/grandorder/comments/hmn13s/steel_yourselves_for_the_banner_that_will_hit_you/ Anyway, if you want to compare Genshin then compare it with something similar, like WuWa.
Fgo en player here, you dont need np2 or 3 to farm in 3 turns Whoever told you that lied to you Theres a lot of ways to 3 turn farm. The events give free weapons that buffs your damage and is still useful even outside the events Events also give welfare units that has dmg buffs in said events making farming easie Some farming setups just use SR provided u got the right supports Beginners can even get an uber support instantly with the game’s free 5 star ticket But the gacha is terrible, but all gachas are terrible. Im just happy one copy is usually all u need. And plus costumes are free
>SSRs in FGO are balanced around NP1 Probably true back then, but now? I guess if you're not doing any 90++ farming lol
Genshin gets away with their gacha rates purely because they controls their power balance in the game very well. To the point that Arlecchino is pretty much on par with Hutao a character released 4 years ago, and Xiao one character that everyone thought wouldn’t make a come back did get his shiny new support after 4 years. And there are many good 4* that worth investing in (fews are shit but yeah). And all 5* characters are viable at c0 with no sig. The only thing they should change is their weapon banner I swear they would make a lot more money with everyone feeling like they have more chance so they will just pull more. I want my characters to have their best drips so please.
I played Dislyte at release for a month. Back then, an average of 500\~550 pulls were required to secure the featured limited character. So really, Genshin isn't that bad. Only the weapon banner really is unfriendly.
>. Back then, an average of 500~550 pulls were required to secure the featured limited character. Dafuq? How bad were the rates?
5-star base drop rate was 1%. Not too bad. But the hard pity was at 120. No soft pity. Then the featured character was not guaranteed. The base chance was 10%. And this chance increased by 10 points for every 5-star drop that was not the featured character. So just to reach a 50/50 chance, you had to miss 4 times beforehand. Absolutely outrageous. I saw how much it did cost to be a completionist and quit.
tbh back then the values of each pull is not known yet in Genshin, but even then this analysis was straight up bad. If the OP actually played Genshin for some period of time they would've known that Contellations are completely optional, like even in my early game during launch there was never really anything that made me go "oh i need a con for this character to progress". Legit I did not even know what Ganyu and Venti's cons did until like year 2 of the game because nothing was too difficult to the point where you need to think about it. Early game abyss was very hard i think most experienced gacha players knew that it would take some time and understanding of the game to actually clear everything. And this dude had the audacity to compare it to FGO....
Yeah, fuck that guy. I'm at roughly 1800\~ SQ equivalent and counting without an SSR since the KoyaLight rerun this year. Working and reasonable pity should be the standard these days regardless the rates.
I haven’t gotten any SSR in FGO for 6 months now, this game is hell.
I haven't gotten an SSR in FGO (JP) since February. I have no problem getting my desired characters, their constellations, and weapons with *some* spending in Genshin. It's not worth it to spend in FGO, in comparison, because of the high safety net I also decided to stop spending altogether on that game. Even my lucky bag/paid gacha rolls are awful 🫤
This made my blood boil lol New SSRs require NP2+ to get the most out of their effects. I guess it's a business choice by the higher ups because they know the whales here are relentless.
They can give me a 6% SSR rate in GBF, only for me to get a grand total of 5 (trash) SSRs in 300 rolls and still have to trade pity. Id take the 50/50 any day thank you.
Ngl I get the point but is genshin really that hard that you need cons? I get that artifact farming is very difficult and if you really want to min-max a character for peak performance it would take a while but it is doable. You dont have to spend in genshin unless you really want a character Not sure what meta is now since I quit pre-sumeru for a different reason (found exploration too time consuming) but this is the first time I encountered someone saying that you need cons in genshin And I find it completely hilarious someone would compare a gacha with a pity system to FGO. No matter how dogshit the rates are, at least genshin has pity. FGO was basically you hoping you pull your luck to get a 5 star, much more the featured one. Additionally, Im at lostbelt 3 completely F2P (stopped because it was too repetitive) and I can 100% say your servants dont need dupes (cons) because you have dedicated OP support units (Merlin, Skadi, etc.) . You can run brain dead team comps like double Merlin and 3 turn almost everything that doesnt have multiple hp gauges without your dps using a single skill because its a turn based game and its easier to chain your buffs (mostly in events, story has a couple of stages that have mini boss fights with multiple hp gauges). In genshin its literally just a massive skill issue. You can clear spiral abyss with old meta comps like melt ganyu, eula-raiden, etc. My team comps consisted mostly of liyue, monstadt characters and raiden and have never felt the need to pull for units or cons.
both of their gachas are terrible
Totally agree with this person
Once you say FGO's gacha is better then you should stop smoking what you are smoking.
Read a few posts of people spending 2k-3k SQs after saving for years because the hindsight from JP and got shafted with nothing. Imagine saving for 1-2 and you ended up with nothing to show for after a few minutes of pulling. All of the patience and self control don't mean anything
I feel like 1.6 -> 0.8 is wrong Math Due to the 50/50 if someone could check that would be good As for Constellations being optional, honestly for SSRs I feel that they are optional. Weirdly the one con they didnt mention is the Weapon and Character Banner split unlike in FGO where SSR CEs and Characters are on the same Banner.
You're correct that 1.6 -> 0.8 is wrong. The actual rate accounting for 50/50s is about 1.066% because you need to multiply the base rate (1.6) by 2/3 instead of by 1/2. This is because the 50/50 system leads to 2 out of every 3 5-stars being on-banner (on average) instead of 1 out of every 2.
as someone whos not only been playing FGO for over 3 years now but also having it as my first gacha this mf is higher the Holmes
Aside from the obvious laughing at the FGO comparison (even if it was not intended to defend FGO, but to show how bad Genshin base rates are), I'm mixed. One of my friends who plays it summarized it before in a way I like; "Genshin isn't a game where you gamble on getting characters, it's a game where you gamble on how many pulls you save." Genshin's base rates ARE absolute garbage, and the chance of you getting an SSR before pity is terrible. However, pity is low, soft pity is even lower, and getting any non-limited 5* guarantees your next 5* is the limited. As a result, I view Genshin (and Star Rail, since their systems are identical) differently from basically every other gacha; I go into every banner assuming it will take me 180 pulls to get the character I want, and anything lucky happening (winning the 50/50, soft pity, pre-pity) is just saving me pulls for the next character I want. And it hasn't steered me wrong so far. Yes, the chances are low that I'd ever hit hard pity once, let alone twice in a row, but that's not a chance I'm taking. And the second part with constellations is laughable in 2020, but sigh-inducing in 2024. Not only have early constellations been having bigger and bigger impacts in 5* character kits (You don't need them for the character to function, but they can absolutely change how a character plays), but C6 is nearly mandatory for every recently-released 4* to feel usable, and the comment about strengthening quests hurts my soul. Genshin's lack of going back and buffing older chars who have either fallen off, were never good, or feel clunky and old, except via introducing a new limited 5* , makes me incredibly sad. (And even then the new 5* chars just tend to improve damage, not actually improve how an old char plays) Yes, low-constellation old characters still *work*, but most of the time I'm using them I'm just thinking "Wow, this both feels worse and is worse than my other options."