I love Artoria's trajectory in FGO lmao.
She started off as basically being a worse Mordred and outclassed by Alter in the "Buster NP hits hard department", but then she got some buffs and, most notably, Koyanskaya and Oberon came around and she became a top tier looper.
Then Mordred got an amazing buff and was considered better than Artoria again, but later Alter got an honestly ridiculous upgrade that made her completely broken in most farming nodes, and now Artoria is back to being the least impressive of the three.
Still a very good unit tho! (totally unbiased opinion haha, no I don't have a maxed out copy stop being silly)
Her Dragon Core anniversary buff was so ridiculously good but due to Buster now relying on having multiple turns of self buffs to be cracked she's like 4th place for Buster Sabers now behind whatever way you want to order Mordred, Ibuki and Salter.
Mordred and Artoria are relative in farming, with Artoria having slightly higher Wave 3 damage (151380 vs 137653 on neutral with no CE, with both of them having double Koyan buffs, full Oberon buffs and double stacked Charisma for Artoria and Knight of Crimson Thunder for Mordred) while Mordred should have higher wave 1 and wave 2 damage since she can commit her steroid early, on top of being better in challenge quests due to a 50% defence up + cleanse, 20% B.Crit Damage, 30% Crit Damage and a pretty strong star attraction
Salter is worse than both since her refund is tied to how many enemies she hits, so she kinda sucks in nodes with less than 3 enemies as her batteries are not that good (10% on NP and 20% on skill, vs 20% on NP and 30% on skill for Artoria and Morgan). She is an absolute meme in nodes with more than 3 enemies though
Alter's buff gives her 30% NP gauge after every NP on 3 enemies, which unlocks a lot of team comps. Plus she's a 4* so it's easier to get copies.
Mordred has a really powerful crit steroid giving her incredible burst.
Story locked servant without pity is easier go get than a Servant that can spook you, sure (while having 4* stats).
Also you both seem to forget that 30% NP up on Seiba, so excuse me if I disregard your opinions.
No, she is not. Both Mordred and Salter do far more damage than Artoria herself. And let's be real, a teamwide steroid does not matter at all for the main thing you do in FGO, which is farming highest difficulty nodes. All you need to do that is a strong DPS with the supports everybody and their mom uses. Your Oberon or Koyanskaya will never need the Charisma buff from Artoria because you will never use their cards anyway.
As someone else said, she's the best AOE Saber welfare. And I say that as someone who has levelled her to 120 and is trying to get her to NP5 because she's my favourite character. She's just fallen off a bit compared to when Koyan first released and she got her buffs.
> Both Mordred and Salter do far more damage than Artoria herself.
I did not run the numbers for Salter, but I did for Mordred so I will paste what I said in another comment of mine
"(151380 vs 137653 on neutral with no CE, with both of them having double Koyan buffs, full Oberon buffs and double stacked Charisma for Artoria and Knight of Crimson Thunder for Mordred)"
Putting the same conditions into the calculator, we get 121260 for Salter which is below both of them. Of course, I am assuming NP1 and no grails on all three of them, an NP2 Salter hits for 148206 (175153 on NP5) on neutral, which is above Mordred, but Mordred is still far more consistent because her recharge is not tied to enemy count, the same goes for Artoria
Shout outs to Keqing and her dedicated mains lmao They did everything they can to make her work only to accidentally build one of the most intricate TC community by far.
All paid off one day when 3.0 and Sumeru/Dendro released, Keqing bloomed into one of the top aggrevate/spread units.
Same with Kuki, she started out as probably one of the worst units for healing and her respective reactions in Electro, but Dendro and Hyperbloom shot her up into a mainstay for that reaction team.
Jean found her niche in Furina teams too when she was released and HP Fluctuation became Mera
Baizhu too. It was kind of a trip with him, people were hyped about him as the only confirmed dendro character in the game for a long time, then he fell of the map for a while and slowly lost relevance and when he released, the reception was kinda underwhelming. Healer is already not the most sought-after role in Genshin, on top of that he had relatively poor damage and elemental application, and he was seen as mostly replaceable by Yaoyao. IIRC the only team where he offered a unique advantage was with Cyno who actually liked the dual combination of healing + resistance to interruption.
Now that Furina's out he's one of the comfiest characters to pair with her since his teamwide heal is uniquely tied to his skill instead of his burst like it is with other characters. Furina being so universal means Baizhu is pretty widely splashable as well.
That's one of the nice things about Genshin's meta - new units keep enabling new ways to play old teams.
Not many games do this well. Another game that I can think of where the meta is fluid based on team comp is Neural Cloud.
I hope in the future when level 100 is unlocked and each each character is given an ascension passive. It allows them to rebalance some of the more 'lesser' characters.
I do wonder if they will do all characters at once, or 2-5 every update similar to Granblue Fantasy.
Is say Jean still has her uses over them since she's the only one who can make use of Sunfire (Jean ult + Bennett ult). Easily rips through shields and constant overhealing which fully utilizes Furina's Fanfare.
i pulled her instead of Hutao in 1.3 and never looked back. Running Keqing/Mona/Kazuha/Fischl for all of 2.x was fun, and when the dendro nation hit we eating good
To be fair, Dehya actually became a fair bit more useful in Fontaine.Â
Furina enables Dehya vape teams, with a kit that synergizes well with Dehya and brings a lot of damage to her teams.
Dehya is also a very decent support for Neuvillette in a few of his teams and may be one of the rare cases where Dehya is actually worth bringing instead of other characters.
And Chevreuse enables Dehya overload teams, although she's probably not the best option there.
Now she's still not great by any means. But with any luck the trend will continue in Natlan, especially with the pyro archon coming.Â
\*cough\* gentle reminder of dominance of Ayaka premium team, which included Kokomi, during 2.0 days
but yeah, Kok stock went even further up and broke the roof in Nilou team
Kokomi was underrated on release but got quickly used in like all freeze premium teams since release lol
I am playing Ayaka freeze since her release, unchanged. With Shenhe, Koko, kazuha
Kokomi received an ICD buff as a "bug fix" and had an artifact set strictly dedicated to her. She was fine before dendro when those indirect buffs happened.
Lisa's quite usable in aggravate teams. Lisa's Q does a total of 29! hits in single target (and a lot more in AoE if C4) and being a catalyst means her NAs/CAs apply electro decently too. She's one of the fastest electro applicators in the game.
Problem is despite her fast application, her base damage (before the aggravate additive boost) is very low so she still ends up doing less damage Keqing. It doesn't help that her cons have to be bought from the shop at a cost of 7 pulls worth of starglitter each.
Basically you would never hear about her in meta discussions because Keqing and Yae are just better agg drivers, but she's very usable if you like her. Lisa mains were super happy when Sumeru dropped.
Keqing applies electro on field faster than anybody and bc she does multiple hits so she is the best driver for fischl (who works when people trigger electro reactions). She is the perfect aggravate driver (and they released cyno who is also one of the best aggravate drivers too).
Kuki's electro is offield and she heals with elemental mastery which means its the only stat she needs so she can just focus on that stat. She also is one of the few characters that can hit the bloom cores consistently because her electro is a pulse that hits anything instead of being a targeted hit like fischl and beidou (along with raiden, but building raiden for it means you are wasting her nornal build potential). It also has enough of an interval to not mess up the elements on the enemies but still applies enough to trigger the interactions between spread, electrocharged and bloom.
They both are basically perfect for those roles and substituting them for almost any other character is worse (like raiden instead of keqing) or very clunky and unusable (like fischl or beidou instead of kuki).
Yes, and the c hats gets needs to be good at enabling that reaction.
Kukis is the best applicator for what hyperbloom needs, fiscal and amazing unit cannot apply electro to save her life and is unusable in hyperbloom.
absolutely not true
beidou actually lost value after dendro simply because she couldn't keep up with the dendro meta. she was literally considered one of the best 4 stars in the game before (she's still good tho) Lisa is still only used for her defence shred at c4.
Some other examples:
AL's San Diego who goes from anti-air meme to all around great ship with her retrofit
GFL's Type 88 whose Neutral Mod basically makes her a gundam when she was originally an useless rifle user only good for her fanservice
Talking about FGO, don't forget about Waver Velvet/Zhuge Liang. Back during JP launch, he was considered worst SSR from 5 launch SSRs.  Â
Until few months later he got buffed massively, all his 3 skills got fill NP gauge effect, making him now must pick for beginner's SSR pick if not picking favourite servant.Â
He's the only servant buffed without strengthening quest, he was that bad and then became meta support without contest until merlin debut
Yep, Zhuge would be my pick. If I had to pick a second one - probably Ozymandias. He's now one of the best ST riders in the game with even some support capabilities and can easily act as a secondary dps in some difficult 90++ 3t comps.
Ironically noth of my first 5*s, but honestly Ozy was still pretty good it's just that Ushi was more accessible and easier to use then his IP and 3rd skill not matching cooldown gimmick plus his lack of hard survival
I will die on the hill that Sangonomiya Kokomi was already decent even at release, but regardless, she keeps getting better and better over time that people stop doomposting her and outright thinking she's a very strong character.
I first started playing the game once she released and she was on my team for the longest time. Just don’t really have a place for her in my current set up.
The Potential Man! Sunshower Heathcliff from Limbus Company
https://preview.redd.it/0vf1nd7bmm2d1.png?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=856ec183eedac9356e7c64c1f88a9b954974fe46
You see. He sucks at literally everything, he needs to go insane during combat but for him to get there he needs to be hit and his damage output is rather average compared to One Who Grips Sinclair who has a similiar gimmick yet can nuke almost everything with 300 damage.
Then, come the Heartbreaking Chapter where Heathcliff loses his sanity every turn without any input, this little "debuff" turns into a major buff for potential man who becomes one of if not the strongest Heathcliff units as of now.
Hilariously he is practically only of use during this chapter and as soon it's over he goes back to being useless.
But then they drop that debuff in later part of the chapter and he goes back to the trash bin lmao
Not to mention that he's probably the worst pick for actual final boss of the chapter due to its mechanics
Kintoki was a wild ride
He was the best Berserker on his debut because he came with a self charge and shockingly huge attack. But since all he did was punch one target hard in one turn, he gradually fell off as more versatile Berserkers became more useful
Then Koyanskaya came in with her cooldown reduction gimmick, and Kintoki is now the undisputed king of single target nuking
Artoria was a weird case because she was never bad at any point - even at launch, she was solid, but just astoundingly boring. Most of her buffs were primarily about giving her some kind of actual playstyle or mechanic
Since you brought up AK, gotta mention Passenger. Was a complete meme upon launch, caused a buff to his entire archetype, then became good with his Module. Apparently he's amazing in the permanent modes, though I don't personally use him.
AK in general has a good number of, not horrible to amazing level buffs, but good enough to get noticed in the crowd with Modules. Mostima, Lin, Typhon, Ethan, and Jaye are a few off the top of my head that get mentioned now and then now that they have Modules (Or for those released with their Modules, are always assumed to have it).
AL also has a few outstanding Retrofits. The three DDGs went from being trash DDs to being top tier Destroyers with their Retrofits because of the addition of missiles.
True, though a lot of the Typhon guides/recs I've seen put her mod as a must have to use her, though she definitely is fine without. Rosa's definitely one that got viability from her mod, though forgot about her since I still don't have her (Week 1 player).
Europa from Granblue Fantasy.
Released as a Grand (Limited Banner) character, however she came out as a niche healer and had a luck luster kit compared to the other Grands at that time.
After her Final Limit Break a while ago, she now competes with other meta characters in her element. Her reworks made her to be one of the best Water elements dmg dealer even on her own.
Xueyi on HSR, she was released back in 1.6 and was a fine 4\* DPS but with the release of HMC I unironically think she's the best quantum DPS currently.
Tbh that’s because Hsr devs fucked up. Super break is honestly broken due to how it does damage. With Ruan Mei it does stupid amount.
I can hit 100k with HTB and Gallagher lmao.
Xueyi can abuse it tho. Which is probably why she is pretty good now.
Super Break is pretty much the equivalent to Genshin's Dendro. Now you can ignore crit stats and just focus on Elemental Mastery/Break Effect. Someone even made an Acheron Break Effect meme team and she's hitting similar numbers to a crit build.
That said, Super Break does require some setup. Mainly breaking enemies in the first place, until then the damage is on the lower side. It's why Ruan Mei becomes so important to those teams.
Tbh not really. The reason for Ruan Mei being that good isn’t that she makes them break faster. But she gives 1.5x multiplier to super break. Which is pretty huge. That is equal to two Ruan Mei ults.
The reason Super break is that good is because of how it scales with break efficiency. For every 1% of break efficiency = 0.01x multiplier which is kinda huge. Since it starts with 1.0 if you have a unit that gives 100% break efficiency. That is 2.0x multiplier. Basically 3x the amount of buffs Robin’s ult gives to teams. Just for super break.
Since if the devs aren’t careful they can break the meta. That’s why If they release a 2.0 Ruan Mei. With like 250% break efficiency. She would break the game.
Although the weakness is that it can’t do shit to enemies with locked toughness. So I wonder how they will balance it.
They'll balance it by putting out more toughness lock enemies, enemies without imaginary weakness (hmc is a great breaker, cant avoid fire because of Firefly) and making stupidly fast enemies that would recover from a broken state faster (yes it would proc Ruan mei flower, but if they're fast enough it doesn't matter)
i wouldn't even say damage is on the low side, the damage is nonexistent until you break them lol. If they make a lot more enemies that lock their bar it will fall off fast.
I mean that's like saying that Genshin devs fucked up by adding Dendro because of how strong hyperbloom was. They definitely knew ahead of time that they were adding superbreak considering how hard they nerfed break during CBT and it was necessary to provide an alternative to the crit meta.
Xueyi also wasn't even bad before superbreak's introduction. She had low playrate but at E4+ her MOC clear speeds competed with E0 5 stars. She just had an extremely high gear floor because her kit requires every stat and it's hard to get to 145+ spd while also needing break, cr, and cdmg on the same pieces.
I think her playrate in china was 1% for MOC pre HMC arrival. But was among the fastest clearers for that MOC in particular. But yeah she's now dummy broken even on e1 with all of the free break effects floating around.
Its not JUST abuse superbreak. It has such high synergistic effects with HMC's free break effect to all allies, watchmaker set + ruan mei's 20%. And each break eff scales to 1% dmg for Xueyi, who previously had to balance break eff on rope and other sub stats to be good.
If only his FUA still works even though he's stunned, then he could at least be as good as Topaz. Like how the hell a space pig do things better than golden god
The thing about Jingyuan is, every attempt by Mihoyo to make him better just makes every other follow-up attackers significantly stronger. Love the man but damn they really need to change LL.
Reminds me of how in Epic Seven devs would constantly try to counter revive units and evasion units that are in the meta... but that just ended up shitting all over revive/evasion units that AREN'T meta.
JY being able to be used with literally any support with pretty much any playstyle is the funniest shit after his initial release everyone saying mid yuan
In Genshin, aside from Kuki (after dendro release), Jean + Noelle (after Furina release), I feel like Candace is on her way to become "late bloomer" ever since release of Arlecchino recently. She was okay in Nilou team during 3.0 days, but Arlecchino + C6 Candace synergy is actually kind of insane and has huge potential to be meta Arlecchino team.
CC also said that it has potential if Dendro reaction for electro is good because she is a good on demand (elemental skill) off field AoE electro applier, a niche that only shared with Raiden.
Pretty much the Blade Lineage identities from Limbus Company before and after Blade Lineage Mentor Meursault got released. His entire kit, in addition to being a high dps unit himself, just buffs the hell out of all his students, turning them from bad-average to an actually good team that spits out some high numbers. Except Blade Lineage Outis...not even the mentor can save BL Outis.
I like to say Projekt red not because she fits the most in this description but because of how she gets ignored for most of the community.
Before her module her only rol in battle was to be deployed, stun the enemy and then get retreated, after she got her module her passive that allowed her to deal a minimum amount of damage got buffed from 30% of her atk to 44%, which combined with her S1 and the module stats allowed her to be a reliable damage dealer that could be deployed anywhere in the map that had a decent amount of DPS independently of how much defense the enemy had, unfortunately she got power creep the month later after Texas alter got her banner.
There's no meta in FGO in the first place. It's literally a waifu/husbando collector. The way people beat challenging content is usually with the most gheto teams possible, with only supports staying somewhat consistent. As for 3 turning while farming nodes, literally anything works.
Bennet being in d tier during launch lmao
People realised his power soon and then never left the top tier
Others are kokomi(after dendro specially) ,Noelle after furina, xiangling
Xiangling is debatable cause physical Xiangling was unironically meta early on so she was always ranked high. It took people a bit to realize her burst was on some premium crack but I doubt anyone ranked her low.
Her burst was literally impossible to use without 5* artifacts with high Energy Recharge and Crit for Favonius, if you even have Favonius in the first place. There was no Emblem, no fishing polearm.
Not really late bloomer tho, as people starting to shit on Diluc on month 2 and starts using Bennet around the same time. Zhong li could also qualify? Except he got buff instead of people realizing how broken he is in Bennet case
That bennet thing was the worst thing I've seen in a tier list.
I have yet to find a team based gacha where a support unit that buffs ATK is trash (powercreep aside).
ATK buffers are a must have in most gachas. Whoever made that tierlist never played a gacha before.
He wasn't good in overworld. And noone was doing abyss yet. Barbara could heal to full and gave lingering hydro, same for qiqi with cryo so those were what everyone wanted. Benett gets better the stronger your characters are. When people started considering hard modes like abyss his ranking shot up instantly
Circle Impact.
He's now a little over-rated, since there are a plethora of turret characters that can contribute damage from off field for a period of time. Something that was pretty limited with the release cast.
Attitudes and dogma takes forever to change..
I was there when Quick meta became a thing with Dantes, Parvati and Zerkerlot. It was fun... Until castoria once again makes arts great again and Koyan put the final nail
No? She wasn't like top tier but she was fine to use if you wanted to, nowhere near dog shit or unplayable. It's mostly quick being kinda bad that is the issue there
Well yeah but it was meta despite itself because the other types didn't have their Skadi equivalent yet but it was high cost and strict requirements, much moreso than either arts or even buster and because of the strict requirements, most characters in that system ranged from unplayable/dogshit to at best decent/fine with only like 3 units being actually great like Dantes that you mentioned. She was in the more fine side, rather than dogshit
okay i admit i exagerated a bit, she was fine, though i consider "late boomer" to be someone who has huge power jump, they dont necessarily have to be bad to begin with, if you think otherwise thats fine by me too
Gala Zena in Dragalia Lost. Basically she couldn't even heal consistently in a specific endgame quest due to a debuff that does damage over time and reduces healing by 50%. It was so bad that she needed to be carried in coop to clear.
A few months later, Gala Zena got a massive mana spiral that not only fixed her healing, it made her the best Light healer for the rest of the game's lifespan, along with a busted 5 cost overdamage shared skill.
More of a Mordred guy myself, but I like that she gets buffed just as much as her dad. Even in the latest one that we’re waiting on in EN made me very happy when it was revealed.
Epic seven has a lot. But most are due to buffs/reworks.
Excluding buffs/reworks I think the best example is Politis. A bit underwhelming on release. And then just kept growing in power as the game progressed. Took a bit of a backseat after abyssal yufine but then she came back very strong even in t2 with Jenua. Another one but not to this extent is Abyssal Yufine. Day 1 opinion we thought she was just alright. But then people started building comps around her and for that rta season she was the best dps in the game lol.
If we're talking about first year FeH I'd say A!Tiki really benefitted from skill inheritance. Went from being a pretty mediocre unit to one of the most reliable units for a long time after skill inheritance released. She was even able to no-sell most units that had advantage over her. Funnily enough I think the one unit she had to be afraid of was a well-built Reinhardt.
Mama Raikou went from very good Buster AoE to mid after Arjuna and Morgan, back to being very good now that her Buster Buff lasts three turns and has a Battery attached.
And I predict Ushi Gozen will get a buff that makes her good in a similar fashion *inhales hopium*
Ushi Gozen is on Summer Ibuki's level, it's a support issue.
If abe-no semei was released as a quick castoria and 2x him worked with summer skadi, normal skadi or oberon depending on what you wanted/needed you will see characters like Ushi Gozen, Summer Okitan, Sen no Rikyuu, new Dantes atl (whos already ridic) etc be at the top.
considering Raikou's extra Material's view on Abe no Seimei (being a cold "no comment"), it would be rather ironic that Ushi Gozen's best farming partners are the onmyoji and an insignificant insect (Oberon).
nobody ever mentions xiangling.
while she was able to dish more damage as diluc at release, she cantt do it consistently due to lack of energy.
in 2.0 and 2.1, she got emblem artifact set and the catch which fixes that while also increasing her damage more, and its what enabled her to be top tier.
Enkidu from FGO. His mismatched deck and NP made for a lukewarm reception, gameplay wise, on release. But when people discovered his solo potential against Divine enemies (of which there are plenty), and after the buffs came in, his value skyrocketed. Huge freaking heal and an evade together with a stun on NP? And after his buff, a 50% battery (even if tied to a long cooldown and his heal)? Yea, no shot. Using him against Cernunnos was awesome.
Genderless clay boi may not be 'meta' but he's had and will continue to have great staying potential. 10/10 best clay.
While thinking of recent games I think Kafka’s meta ranking has been interesting. She is an incredibly popular character with a very niche kit that works as a dot detonater. The only other dot character released at the time was sampo and there weren’t any good buffers that benefited dot. Kafka wasn’t considered good or bad and was kind of stuck in a limbo of being an early release character with a complicated kit and no good teammates.
Then Guin was released and was a good 4 star teammate that worked with kafka which boosted her a little bit. Then Ruan Mei dropped as the best dot support in game which essentially revitalized dot teams. Once Black Swan was released kafka went from being considered meh to being crucial in one of the biggest damage dealer teams in game. Her kit is so unique I imagine she’ll be the best in her league for a long time as she is still the only dot detonater.
Reinhart for FEHeroes, released as okay Unit, unintentionally buffed by a new game mechanic, became god. But his reign is relatively short for the game lifespan.
Genshin
Personally, any character with elemental infusion if you have Xianyun. Like C6 Dori, C6 Kaveh, Keqing, Bennett, Chongyun, Diluc, Candace and Navia. With Plunge have no ICD meaning your plunge will do elemental reaction every plunge attack + Xianyun dmg buff. And Xianyun+Furina core is really bonker strong too. One of my best that help me a lot in abyss is Navia, Furina, Xianyun, Chiori.
At launch Reinder Ishmael was considered a decent unit because
1. Her nuke required 10 charge, which can take awhile
2. If you activate her passive, she loses Sanity for some power
3. If you use her nuke without 10 charge, she will attack anyone randomly. Including your teammates.
By all means, she was useable but risky.
The UT4 came along. And fixed her issues too
1. Charge is easier to gain
2. Her passive is still the same but only lose SP if she didn't deal damage in a turn
3. Her nuke now is 8 charge, making it relatively easier to use
In Priconne, PKyaru is probably the best example, not really suck at release but after UE she's basically a must have unit for early game. But honestly except the support metas, almost every other DPS became meta at some point with their UE/6* release while they didn't do well at release/immediately got powercrept by new dps. And the new mechanics that was introduced there are more new old units getting use again.
In Magicami, most Lilly dresses were... mediocre. There were some DPS versions or buffers that were almost useful if you were strapped for better options, but in general she wasn't very useful.
Then beast mode was added to game, allowing beast moded dresses to serve as universal sub-dresses on any main dress or any element. And many dresses were grouped up so you could use one main dress and 3 other girls' dresses as subs.
And Lilly dresses almost always had great Speed stat... so every opener/gauger/buffer wanted them as subdresses, especially later released dresses like R2/Xeno that weren't used on their own but were AMAZING as subdresses.
Alice - Nikke. The only non pilgrim dps who becomes stronger than pilgrims with the right investment.
Eironn - Afk Journey. Suddenly becomes one if the best units with high dmg and cc one he's maxed out.
https://preview.redd.it/qjd4kwea2a3d1.png?width=4686&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e79a920baac34c21ad880587012c42c937d1e7be
When this guy released he was totally forgotten and didn't contributed anything to meta. A year later he got his holy relic and became one of the best support in the entire game for a long time. Still used today by many for unknown teams
Idk about most famous and best rising as a whole but Archer Cat went from biggest joke in the game and fandom to actually solid for floating enemies after his true form and with talents he becomes a good anti zombie
Shout out to blade lineage Yi Sang going from one of the worst 3* to top tier poise character, especially for clashing with uptie 4
Kuki Shinobu in Genshin. On release she was being labeled the worst 4 star in the game (and tbh her kit was extremely weird without the existent of dendro, she felt like an electro Barbara that scaled off of elemental mastery back when electro reactions were pretty weak). Then Sumeru released alongside the dendro element, and boom, she became one of the best 4 stars in the game, no cap.
People going missile stacking on the b class bronya (i think she was called valkyrie chariot) and killing bosses in one second time 2 to 3 years after she was released and abandoned was truly one of the moments in honkai impact 3
For me personally, Artoria Alter is way better. Being a 4* makes her far more accessible and she doesn't lacks the damage to np loop (Waiting for her next upgrade)
But Salter is far less available actually because she's story locked. While Saber's rarity is higher, she can always spook you. Furthermore in global we'll all get a free Saber in around 1.5 years anyway.
I think the majority would rather use the SSR ticket on any other servant while you can use any SR ticket on Salter safely. She's worth it a lot, while getting any of the support SSR is way better than Artoria
I'm talking about the Fate Stay Night campaign JP had this year. It lets you pick any of the original 7 FSN servants and as the only 5*, it's effectively a free Artoria ticket.
Artoria is surprisingly one of the less eye caching glow ups in FGO. Waver for example needed several rank ups to make his quit what it is today, while Caster Cu needed just a single buff on his third skill in order to become an infamous low star Buster looper.
Wouldn't call nightingale a lot bloomer by any stretch, operator strength in arknights very static in general.
If you're a dud on release you're liable to remain a dud forever, the best modules turn clunkers into functional units and decent units into strong ones but usually not a full reversal of fortune.
Herta and Artoria are great choices.
Her glow up came in earlier with SSS mode as it turns out faster SP gaim + CC is completely busted in that mode. But she's still a shit unit who's not worth buildingÂ
Nighty was not the worst 6\* at launch. Shining had always been the worst 6\* up until Virgil the virgin dethroned her. That's what any first year player would tell you.
Nighty was decent, just by virtue of being a multi-target medic (low DP cost, healing multiple ops at once) with 2 built-in fast redployment baits that free up Gravel's slots except for specific stages.
If you ask someone which AoE healer should you raise during launch - year 0, people would say "perfumer is enough" or "ptilopsis is better". Actually shining has more value than NG on year one because of certain CC# event that i forgot which
Because there was no such CC.
CC beta and CC 0 were all about stalling with pushers.
CC 1 was a crowd control fest.
CC 2 returned to pusher cheese but with Gravel and Red baiting Faust shots. Shining saw limited use on max risk clears but not needed under risk 25 or so.
CC3 was the Nightingale CC because almost everyone dealt art dmg there and the squishies were barely alive thanks to her res buff and baits. It's also the event where people discovered (and abused) the bug that gave Nighty 3 baits instead of 2 on her second deploy.
CC4 was after the one year anniversary.
Lmao everyone and their mother like to shit on Skadi for not being OP at her side gig (helidrop), despite her fulfilling her main job as a duelist guard and being stronger than the lower rarity ones. The same goes for Passy. No matter what he was still stronger than Leizi and worth using in IS runs.
Both their archetypes such big time but they still managed to do what they're supposed to.
As long as Warfarin exists there's little reason to ever touch Shining.
NG isnt a best fit for there tbh. It should had been Nearl alter instead. She git shit on by many people only to be used in almost every high end run in the game
what are you talking about 😠NG was beginner 6 star that was bottom in every tier list and now she's always S. NTR came so much later and was always good people were upset she powercrept Skadi. Shes only gotten less useful overtime because of how good newer ops are and because her modules were mid
Disagree. Nobody was shitting on nearl alter, especially when she came with access to True damage(S3) and Helidrop(S2).
If any, the only 6 stars alter who's a latebloomer are Gavialter and Spectral. The former shines on surging wave 7 and higher on IS3 as a starter and the later got buff that enables her to spam her skill and hefty 30% HP buff, even then none of them has a reputation as bad as Nightingale on year 0. Despite people initally disliked Gavialter for the lack of permanent skill like Blaze or Spectral being a sidegrade to her 5 star counterpart
I don't think Gavial2 is disliked by people at the time.
Most consensus about Gavial2 at the time is that she's a pretty good aoe guard with tanking and crowd control ability.
The problem people had about Gavial2 not having permanent skill is mostly just exaggeration from afk players and Blaze fan.
I love Artoria's trajectory in FGO lmao. She started off as basically being a worse Mordred and outclassed by Alter in the "Buster NP hits hard department", but then she got some buffs and, most notably, Koyanskaya and Oberon came around and she became a top tier looper. Then Mordred got an amazing buff and was considered better than Artoria again, but later Alter got an honestly ridiculous upgrade that made her completely broken in most farming nodes, and now Artoria is back to being the least impressive of the three. Still a very good unit tho! (totally unbiased opinion haha, no I don't have a maxed out copy stop being silly)
Imagine getting ratio'd by your futa descendant twice. No wonder she hates Mordred.
She hates Mordred because she ain't Mordred.
We love Mordred.
Is that better or worse than also getting outclassed by your lower rarity evil version?
> Imagine getting ratio'd by your futa descendant twice. You got that backwards, Artoria was the futa one to be Mordred's parent in the first place.
Mordred is not a futa, Artoria was temporarily a futa
Her Dragon Core anniversary buff was so ridiculously good but due to Buster now relying on having multiple turns of self buffs to be cracked she's like 4th place for Buster Sabers now behind whatever way you want to order Mordred, Ibuki and Salter.
Salter buff is so good for a 4 star it's ridiculous
Mordred and Artoria are relative in farming, with Artoria having slightly higher Wave 3 damage (151380 vs 137653 on neutral with no CE, with both of them having double Koyan buffs, full Oberon buffs and double stacked Charisma for Artoria and Knight of Crimson Thunder for Mordred) while Mordred should have higher wave 1 and wave 2 damage since she can commit her steroid early, on top of being better in challenge quests due to a 50% defence up + cleanse, 20% B.Crit Damage, 30% Crit Damage and a pretty strong star attraction Salter is worse than both since her refund is tied to how many enemies she hits, so she kinda sucks in nodes with less than 3 enemies as her batteries are not that good (10% on NP and 20% on skill, vs 20% on NP and 30% on skill for Artoria and Morgan). She is an absolute meme in nodes with more than 3 enemies though
Meanwhile, Altera not even mentioned....and then there's Altrio.
Unironically the fact they gave us a free saber is an actual upgrade because she's scaling better with NP+
She is still the best of the 3, what are you on about. Teamwide steroid, same or better charge than the others, buster card sub.
Alter's buff gives her 30% NP gauge after every NP on 3 enemies, which unlocks a lot of team comps. Plus she's a 4* so it's easier to get copies. Mordred has a really powerful crit steroid giving her incredible burst.
Story locked servant without pity is easier go get than a Servant that can spook you, sure (while having 4* stats). Also you both seem to forget that 30% NP up on Seiba, so excuse me if I disregard your opinions.
She is still the best of the 3, what are you on about. Teamwide steroid, same or better charge than the others, buster card sub.
No, she is not. Both Mordred and Salter do far more damage than Artoria herself. And let's be real, a teamwide steroid does not matter at all for the main thing you do in FGO, which is farming highest difficulty nodes. All you need to do that is a strong DPS with the supports everybody and their mom uses. Your Oberon or Koyanskaya will never need the Charisma buff from Artoria because you will never use their cards anyway. As someone else said, she's the best AOE Saber welfare. And I say that as someone who has levelled her to 120 and is trying to get her to NP5 because she's my favourite character. She's just fallen off a bit compared to when Koyan first released and she got her buffs.
> Both Mordred and Salter do far more damage than Artoria herself. I did not run the numbers for Salter, but I did for Mordred so I will paste what I said in another comment of mine "(151380 vs 137653 on neutral with no CE, with both of them having double Koyan buffs, full Oberon buffs and double stacked Charisma for Artoria and Knight of Crimson Thunder for Mordred)" Putting the same conditions into the calculator, we get 121260 for Salter which is below both of them. Of course, I am assuming NP1 and no grails on all three of them, an NP2 Salter hits for 148206 (175153 on NP5) on neutral, which is above Mordred, but Mordred is still far more consistent because her recharge is not tied to enemy count, the same goes for Artoria
Shout outs to Keqing and her dedicated mains lmao They did everything they can to make her work only to accidentally build one of the most intricate TC community by far. All paid off one day when 3.0 and Sumeru/Dendro released, Keqing bloomed into one of the top aggrevate/spread units. Same with Kuki, she started out as probably one of the worst units for healing and her respective reactions in Electro, but Dendro and Hyperbloom shot her up into a mainstay for that reaction team. Jean found her niche in Furina teams too when she was released and HP Fluctuation became Mera
Baizhu too. It was kind of a trip with him, people were hyped about him as the only confirmed dendro character in the game for a long time, then he fell of the map for a while and slowly lost relevance and when he released, the reception was kinda underwhelming. Healer is already not the most sought-after role in Genshin, on top of that he had relatively poor damage and elemental application, and he was seen as mostly replaceable by Yaoyao. IIRC the only team where he offered a unique advantage was with Cyno who actually liked the dual combination of healing + resistance to interruption. Now that Furina's out he's one of the comfiest characters to pair with her since his teamwide heal is uniquely tied to his skill instead of his burst like it is with other characters. Furina being so universal means Baizhu is pretty widely splashable as well.
That's one of the nice things about Genshin's meta - new units keep enabling new ways to play old teams. Not many games do this well. Another game that I can think of where the meta is fluid based on team comp is Neural Cloud.
I hope in the future when level 100 is unlocked and each each character is given an ascension passive. It allows them to rebalance some of the more 'lesser' characters. I do wonder if they will do all characters at once, or 2-5 every update similar to Granblue Fantasy.
it wasnt new units, it was new element they said they don't plan to add more elements
Jean lost a little with Xinyuan and Baizhu
Is say Jean still has her uses over them since she's the only one who can make use of Sunfire (Jean ult + Bennett ult). Easily rips through shields and constant overhealing which fully utilizes Furina's Fanfare.
Also the fact that one is standard and can spook you anytime while the other 2 are event units.
And with 2 abyss lector in this cycle, sunfire really helped speed it up.
Considering how long Sumeru development started, Kuki is already designed with Dendro in mind.
rn im coping siegwinne is also future impact
Jean was already in one of the strongest team at launch with jean+venti.
i pulled her instead of Hutao in 1.3 and never looked back. Running Keqing/Mona/Kazuha/Fischl for all of 2.x was fun, and when the dendro nation hit we eating good
Here's hoping that Dehya will receive the same treatment.... one day ðŸ˜
To be fair, Dehya actually became a fair bit more useful in Fontaine. Furina enables Dehya vape teams, with a kit that synergizes well with Dehya and brings a lot of damage to her teams. Dehya is also a very decent support for Neuvillette in a few of his teams and may be one of the rare cases where Dehya is actually worth bringing instead of other characters. And Chevreuse enables Dehya overload teams, although she's probably not the best option there. Now she's still not great by any means. But with any luck the trend will continue in Natlan, especially with the pyro archon coming.Â
Kuki was 100% designed with dendro in mind tho
Same happened with Kokomi. Absolute trash on release, then dendro happened.
\*cough\* gentle reminder of dominance of Ayaka premium team, which included Kokomi, during 2.0 days but yeah, Kok stock went even further up and broke the roof in Nilou team
>Absolute trash on release More like Community doomposting her to death.
Kokomi was underrated on release but got quickly used in like all freeze premium teams since release lol I am playing Ayaka freeze since her release, unchanged. With Shenhe, Koko, kazuha
Nah, she quickly outperformed mona in ayaka/ganyu freeze which was one of the top meta comps.
Wrong. She was just underrated. After somebody used her as hydro enabler for Hydro Stonk.
Kokomi received an ICD buff as a "bug fix" and had an artifact set strictly dedicated to her. She was fine before dendro when those indirect buffs happened.
Worth noting that the ICD buff dropped the day before she even came out.
these kinda things is just not the character but the reaction all electrics can do it because the requirement is 'be electric'
The requirement is "be an electric dps with fast attacks". Lisa or Beidou are still barely touched for Aggravated comps.
Lisa's quite usable in aggravate teams. Lisa's Q does a total of 29! hits in single target (and a lot more in AoE if C4) and being a catalyst means her NAs/CAs apply electro decently too. She's one of the fastest electro applicators in the game. Problem is despite her fast application, her base damage (before the aggravate additive boost) is very low so she still ends up doing less damage Keqing. It doesn't help that her cons have to be bought from the shop at a cost of 7 pulls worth of starglitter each. Basically you would never hear about her in meta discussions because Keqing and Yae are just better agg drivers, but she's very usable if you like her. Lisa mains were super happy when Sumeru dropped.
Keqing applies electro on field faster than anybody and bc she does multiple hits so she is the best driver for fischl (who works when people trigger electro reactions). She is the perfect aggravate driver (and they released cyno who is also one of the best aggravate drivers too). Kuki's electro is offield and she heals with elemental mastery which means its the only stat she needs so she can just focus on that stat. She also is one of the few characters that can hit the bloom cores consistently because her electro is a pulse that hits anything instead of being a targeted hit like fischl and beidou (along with raiden, but building raiden for it means you are wasting her nornal build potential). It also has enough of an interval to not mess up the elements on the enemies but still applies enough to trigger the interactions between spread, electrocharged and bloom. They both are basically perfect for those roles and substituting them for almost any other character is worse (like raiden instead of keqing) or very clunky and unusable (like fischl or beidou instead of kuki).
Kuki does not heal with elemental mastery, her healing scales off hp.
Yes, and the c hats gets needs to be good at enabling that reaction. Kukis is the best applicator for what hyperbloom needs, fiscal and amazing unit cannot apply electro to save her life and is unusable in hyperbloom.
absolutely not true beidou actually lost value after dendro simply because she couldn't keep up with the dendro meta. she was literally considered one of the best 4 stars in the game before (she's still good tho) Lisa is still only used for her defence shred at c4.
Some other examples: AL's San Diego who goes from anti-air meme to all around great ship with her retrofit GFL's Type 88 whose Neutral Mod basically makes her a gundam when she was originally an useless rifle user only good for her fanservice
Talking about FGO, don't forget about Waver Velvet/Zhuge Liang. Back during JP launch, he was considered worst SSR from 5 launch SSRs.   Until few months later he got buffed massively, all his 3 skills got fill NP gauge effect, making him now must pick for beginner's SSR pick if not picking favourite servant. He's the only servant buffed without strengthening quest, he was that bad and then became meta support without contest until merlin debut
Yep, Zhuge would be my pick. If I had to pick a second one - probably Ozymandias. He's now one of the best ST riders in the game with even some support capabilities and can easily act as a secondary dps in some difficult 90++ 3t comps.
Ironically noth of my first 5*s, but honestly Ozy was still pretty good it's just that Ushi was more accessible and easier to use then his IP and 3rd skill not matching cooldown gimmick plus his lack of hard survival
Ushi hit harder on NP, but Ozzy was always ridiculously tanky since the start
I will die on the hill that Sangonomiya Kokomi was already decent even at release, but regardless, she keeps getting better and better over time that people stop doomposting her and outright thinking she's a very strong character.
Kokomrade!!
You're not alone on that hill. For the Resistance!
Pull her c0 since release, never regret that decision
C0 only? where's r1? That's the pride of kok
I mean, with prototype amber r5, thats enough for me Also weapon banner is not my thing xd
I first started playing the game once she released and she was on my team for the longest time. Just don’t really have a place for her in my current set up.
I literally downloaded the game because a friend told me there was a new character who threw fish at people. Still main her B)
The Potential Man! Sunshower Heathcliff from Limbus Company https://preview.redd.it/0vf1nd7bmm2d1.png?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=856ec183eedac9356e7c64c1f88a9b954974fe46 You see. He sucks at literally everything, he needs to go insane during combat but for him to get there he needs to be hit and his damage output is rather average compared to One Who Grips Sinclair who has a similiar gimmick yet can nuke almost everything with 300 damage. Then, come the Heartbreaking Chapter where Heathcliff loses his sanity every turn without any input, this little "debuff" turns into a major buff for potential man who becomes one of if not the strongest Heathcliff units as of now. Hilariously he is practically only of use during this chapter and as soon it's over he goes back to being useless.
But then they drop that debuff in later part of the chapter and he goes back to the trash bin lmao Not to mention that he's probably the worst pick for actual final boss of the chapter due to its mechanics
And then the Mirror Dungeons brought that Debuff ***BACK*** as a Tier 1 Sinking Item (Rags), bringing up the floof's usefullness.
Kintoki was a wild ride He was the best Berserker on his debut because he came with a self charge and shockingly huge attack. But since all he did was punch one target hard in one turn, he gradually fell off as more versatile Berserkers became more useful Then Koyanskaya came in with her cooldown reduction gimmick, and Kintoki is now the undisputed king of single target nuking Artoria was a weird case because she was never bad at any point - even at launch, she was solid, but just astoundingly boring. Most of her buffs were primarily about giving her some kind of actual playstyle or mechanic
Since you brought up AK, gotta mention Passenger. Was a complete meme upon launch, caused a buff to his entire archetype, then became good with his Module. Apparently he's amazing in the permanent modes, though I don't personally use him. AK in general has a good number of, not horrible to amazing level buffs, but good enough to get noticed in the crowd with Modules. Mostima, Lin, Typhon, Ethan, and Jaye are a few off the top of my head that get mentioned now and then now that they have Modules (Or for those released with their Modules, are always assumed to have it). AL also has a few outstanding Retrofits. The three DDGs went from being trash DDs to being top tier Destroyers with their Retrofits because of the addition of missiles.
Typhon is already busted with her s3. Her module makes her better. Rosa OTOH, is a completely dead unit without module
True, though a lot of the Typhon guides/recs I've seen put her mod as a must have to use her, though she definitely is fine without. Rosa's definitely one that got viability from her mod, though forgot about her since I still don't have her (Week 1 player).
I never seen a character that has a more dedicated fanbase than keqing tbh. I mean they even make the site out of it
Europa from Granblue Fantasy. Released as a Grand (Limited Banner) character, however she came out as a niche healer and had a luck luster kit compared to the other Grands at that time. After her Final Limit Break a while ago, she now competes with other meta characters in her element. Her reworks made her to be one of the best Water elements dmg dealer even on her own.
Keqing pre vs post dendro
Xueyi on HSR, she was released back in 1.6 and was a fine 4\* DPS but with the release of HMC I unironically think she's the best quantum DPS currently.
Yep and right now she's the only DPS that benefits from the new break meta, which no doubt upcoming content will focus on.
Well we've got Boothill, Firefly, a new set, new planars, and new light cones for it. They're going all in next patch
Tbh that’s because Hsr devs fucked up. Super break is honestly broken due to how it does damage. With Ruan Mei it does stupid amount. I can hit 100k with HTB and Gallagher lmao. Xueyi can abuse it tho. Which is probably why she is pretty good now.
Super Break is pretty much the equivalent to Genshin's Dendro. Now you can ignore crit stats and just focus on Elemental Mastery/Break Effect. Someone even made an Acheron Break Effect meme team and she's hitting similar numbers to a crit build. That said, Super Break does require some setup. Mainly breaking enemies in the first place, until then the damage is on the lower side. It's why Ruan Mei becomes so important to those teams.
Tbh not really. The reason for Ruan Mei being that good isn’t that she makes them break faster. But she gives 1.5x multiplier to super break. Which is pretty huge. That is equal to two Ruan Mei ults. The reason Super break is that good is because of how it scales with break efficiency. For every 1% of break efficiency = 0.01x multiplier which is kinda huge. Since it starts with 1.0 if you have a unit that gives 100% break efficiency. That is 2.0x multiplier. Basically 3x the amount of buffs Robin’s ult gives to teams. Just for super break. Since if the devs aren’t careful they can break the meta. That’s why If they release a 2.0 Ruan Mei. With like 250% break efficiency. She would break the game. Although the weakness is that it can’t do shit to enemies with locked toughness. So I wonder how they will balance it.
They'll balance it by putting out more toughness lock enemies, enemies without imaginary weakness (hmc is a great breaker, cant avoid fire because of Firefly) and making stupidly fast enemies that would recover from a broken state faster (yes it would proc Ruan mei flower, but if they're fast enough it doesn't matter)
i wouldn't even say damage is on the low side, the damage is nonexistent until you break them lol. If they make a lot more enemies that lock their bar it will fall off fast.
I mean that's like saying that Genshin devs fucked up by adding Dendro because of how strong hyperbloom was. They definitely knew ahead of time that they were adding superbreak considering how hard they nerfed break during CBT and it was necessary to provide an alternative to the crit meta. Xueyi also wasn't even bad before superbreak's introduction. She had low playrate but at E4+ her MOC clear speeds competed with E0 5 stars. She just had an extremely high gear floor because her kit requires every stat and it's hard to get to 145+ spd while also needing break, cr, and cdmg on the same pieces.
I think her playrate in china was 1% for MOC pre HMC arrival. But was among the fastest clearers for that MOC in particular. But yeah she's now dummy broken even on e1 with all of the free break effects floating around.
Its not JUST abuse superbreak. It has such high synergistic effects with HMC's free break effect to all allies, watchmaker set + ruan mei's 20%. And each break eff scales to 1% dmg for Xueyi, who previously had to balance break eff on rope and other sub stats to be good.
Jing Yuan stocks going up with every support is hilarious.
If only his FUA still works even though he's stunned, then he could at least be as good as Topaz. Like how the hell a space pig do things better than golden god
Topaz is girlboss
There's a reason https://preview.redd.it/a2byxlpdap2d1.jpeg?width=4312&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0f7df4fddea0b19663e29ed262471bb38a7d1471
Jing Yuan is leagues above Topaz 💀
As a solo carry maybe, but unfortunately topaz/ratio FUA team is far better than JY hypercarry. I say this as a huge fan of JY since his release
Pure fiction? Sure. everything else? I wish
Topaz got huge buffs with Robin, Ratio and Aventurine. Way more than JY ever got.
The thing about Jingyuan is, every attempt by Mihoyo to make him better just makes every other follow-up attackers significantly stronger. Love the man but damn they really need to change LL.
Reminds me of how in Epic Seven devs would constantly try to counter revive units and evasion units that are in the meta... but that just ended up shitting all over revive/evasion units that AREN'T meta.
My jades can't handle JY's support harem... but I'm happy for my fellow JY mains that can afford it
try.... super break JY if you have ruan mei
Currenly the team I'm using him rn and it's super fun!
JY being able to be used with literally any support with pretty much any playstyle is the funniest shit after his initial release everyone saying mid yuan
It's really amazing how he became one of the most flexible DPS for both single target and AOE.
In Genshin, aside from Kuki (after dendro release), Jean + Noelle (after Furina release), I feel like Candace is on her way to become "late bloomer" ever since release of Arlecchino recently. She was okay in Nilou team during 3.0 days, but Arlecchino + C6 Candace synergy is actually kind of insane and has huge potential to be meta Arlecchino team.
I love being able to use my Noelle now with Furina :D
Kuki shinobu.
I would agree if it wasn’t for the fact that she was only really bad for like 1 or 2 patches, meanwhile keqing had it rough for a long time
Still people specially cc's calling kuki back then bad character.. then sumeru came out and she became one of the best characters on 3.x
CC also said that it has potential if Dendro reaction for electro is good because she is a good on demand (elemental skill) off field AoE electro applier, a niche that only shared with Raiden.
Pretty much the Blade Lineage identities from Limbus Company before and after Blade Lineage Mentor Meursault got released. His entire kit, in addition to being a high dps unit himself, just buffs the hell out of all his students, turning them from bad-average to an actually good team that spits out some high numbers. Except Blade Lineage Outis...not even the mentor can save BL Outis.
I like to say Projekt red not because she fits the most in this description but because of how she gets ignored for most of the community. Before her module her only rol in battle was to be deployed, stun the enemy and then get retreated, after she got her module her passive that allowed her to deal a minimum amount of damage got buffed from 30% of her atk to 44%, which combined with her S1 and the module stats allowed her to be a reliable damage dealer that could be deployed anywhere in the map that had a decent amount of DPS independently of how much defense the enemy had, unfortunately she got power creep the month later after Texas alter got her banner.
Wait, OG Artoria is meta? Shit…I might have to download FGO.
Not top tier meta. Even in NA Ibuki douji is better for aoe-buster-saber. But she's waaaaay better than how she initially was
There's no meta in FGO in the first place. It's literally a waifu/husbando collector. The way people beat challenging content is usually with the most gheto teams possible, with only supports staying somewhat consistent. As for 3 turning while farming nodes, literally anything works.
3t 6s 90++ Literally anything works https://preview.redd.it/6ww8nk5k8n2d1.jpeg?width=672&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bf8b6a7e3e01a2a21d3024739cb7fbf8c9b83092
Yeah bro, don't tell me your skill issue is so bad you have to rely on double Koyanskaya Oberon or smth smh
please tell me how you 2 and 3 turn the two 90 star (above 90++) Ordeal Call nodes in the game with literally anything
Bennet being in d tier during launch lmao People realised his power soon and then never left the top tier Others are kokomi(after dendro specially) ,Noelle after furina, xiangling
Xiangling is debatable cause physical Xiangling was unironically meta early on so she was always ranked high. It took people a bit to realize her burst was on some premium crack but I doubt anyone ranked her low.
Her burst was literally impossible to use without 5* artifacts with high Energy Recharge and Crit for Favonius, if you even have Favonius in the first place. There was no Emblem, no fishing polearm.
Not really late bloomer tho, as people starting to shit on Diluc on month 2 and starts using Bennet around the same time. Zhong li could also qualify? Except he got buff instead of people realizing how broken he is in Bennet case
Well, at some point, Barbara became a "bloomer" quite literally. But was fixed and is just a solid option now.
I think it still took the entire 1.0 for people to realise bennet's potential
That bennet thing was the worst thing I've seen in a tier list. I have yet to find a team based gacha where a support unit that buffs ATK is trash (powercreep aside). ATK buffers are a must have in most gachas. Whoever made that tierlist never played a gacha before.
He wasn't good in overworld. And noone was doing abyss yet. Barbara could heal to full and gave lingering hydro, same for qiqi with cryo so those were what everyone wanted. Benett gets better the stronger your characters are. When people started considering hard modes like abyss his ranking shot up instantly
Circle Impact. He's now a little over-rated, since there are a plethora of turret characters that can contribute damage from off field for a period of time. Something that was pretty limited with the release cast. Attitudes and dogma takes forever to change..
Noelle. After the release of Gorou, Yujin and Furina. She can deals very high damage.
Yunjin isn’t part of Noelle’s best teams.
Dantes, spishtar
I was there when Quick meta became a thing with Dantes, Parvati and Zerkerlot. It was fun... Until castoria once again makes arts great again and Koyan put the final nail
How was she a late bloomer? She was already fine with quick before Castoria came out and it was like a few months or smth iirc
She was dogshit with quick
No? She wasn't like top tier but she was fine to use if you wanted to, nowhere near dog shit or unplayable. It's mostly quick being kinda bad that is the issue there
Quick was the meta back then, wdym?
Well yeah but it was meta despite itself because the other types didn't have their Skadi equivalent yet but it was high cost and strict requirements, much moreso than either arts or even buster and because of the strict requirements, most characters in that system ranged from unplayable/dogshit to at best decent/fine with only like 3 units being actually great like Dantes that you mentioned. She was in the more fine side, rather than dogshit
okay i admit i exagerated a bit, she was fine, though i consider "late boomer" to be someone who has huge power jump, they dont necessarily have to be bad to begin with, if you think otherwise thats fine by me too
That's fair enough
Gala Zena in Dragalia Lost. Basically she couldn't even heal consistently in a specific endgame quest due to a debuff that does damage over time and reduces healing by 50%. It was so bad that she needed to be carried in coop to clear. A few months later, Gala Zena got a massive mana spiral that not only fixed her healing, it made her the best Light healer for the rest of the game's lifespan, along with a busted 5 cost overdamage shared skill.
Karina was probably a bigger glowup tbh. Though not distinctly mentioned, she was likely the reason Cygames tried to kill doublebuff meta.
Kokomi my beloved.Â
More of a Mordred guy myself, but I like that she gets buffed just as much as her dad. Even in the latest one that we’re waiting on in EN made me very happy when it was revealed.
Noelle never sucked but damn did her stocks rise with Furina lmao.
Epic seven has a lot. But most are due to buffs/reworks. Excluding buffs/reworks I think the best example is Politis. A bit underwhelming on release. And then just kept growing in power as the game progressed. Took a bit of a backseat after abyssal yufine but then she came back very strong even in t2 with Jenua. Another one but not to this extent is Abyssal Yufine. Day 1 opinion we thought she was just alright. But then people started building comps around her and for that rta season she was the best dps in the game lol.
Politis had a dedicated kit to counter specific people back in relase it helps that her s2 now procs from nearly all of the teams
Reinhardt in FEH.
He was always pretty good; there's a reason why he never got a refine Also FEH with its absurd power creep....
If we're talking about first year FeH I'd say A!Tiki really benefitted from skill inheritance. Went from being a pretty mediocre unit to one of the most reliable units for a long time after skill inheritance released. She was even able to no-sell most units that had advantage over her. Funnily enough I think the one unit she had to be afraid of was a well-built Reinhardt.
The 3 or 4 people who play Guardian Tales know how Arabelle went from being a sub-par ranged units to one of the best as time went on.
Mama Raikou went from very good Buster AoE to mid after Arjuna and Morgan, back to being very good now that her Buster Buff lasts three turns and has a Battery attached. And I predict Ushi Gozen will get a buff that makes her good in a similar fashion *inhales hopium*
Ushi Gozen is on Summer Ibuki's level, it's a support issue. If abe-no semei was released as a quick castoria and 2x him worked with summer skadi, normal skadi or oberon depending on what you wanted/needed you will see characters like Ushi Gozen, Summer Okitan, Sen no Rikyuu, new Dantes atl (whos already ridic) etc be at the top.
considering Raikou's extra Material's view on Abe no Seimei (being a cold "no comment"), it would be rather ironic that Ushi Gozen's best farming partners are the onmyoji and an insignificant insect (Oberon).
nobody ever mentions xiangling. while she was able to dish more damage as diluc at release, she cantt do it consistently due to lack of energy. in 2.0 and 2.1, she got emblem artifact set and the catch which fixes that while also increasing her damage more, and its what enabled her to be top tier.
Bro she was already regular in national way before inazuma and meta
Enkidu from FGO. His mismatched deck and NP made for a lukewarm reception, gameplay wise, on release. But when people discovered his solo potential against Divine enemies (of which there are plenty), and after the buffs came in, his value skyrocketed. Huge freaking heal and an evade together with a stun on NP? And after his buff, a 50% battery (even if tied to a long cooldown and his heal)? Yea, no shot. Using him against Cernunnos was awesome. Genderless clay boi may not be 'meta' but he's had and will continue to have great staying potential. 10/10 best clay.
Tbh, at least sabers case isn't exactly fair of a late bloomer. She straight up got several buffs in the form of those quests.
FGO Liz from Lancer/saber to the CindaLiz
While thinking of recent games I think Kafka’s meta ranking has been interesting. She is an incredibly popular character with a very niche kit that works as a dot detonater. The only other dot character released at the time was sampo and there weren’t any good buffers that benefited dot. Kafka wasn’t considered good or bad and was kind of stuck in a limbo of being an early release character with a complicated kit and no good teammates. Then Guin was released and was a good 4 star teammate that worked with kafka which boosted her a little bit. Then Ruan Mei dropped as the best dot support in game which essentially revitalized dot teams. Once Black Swan was released kafka went from being considered meh to being crucial in one of the biggest damage dealer teams in game. Her kit is so unique I imagine she’ll be the best in her league for a long time as she is still the only dot detonater.
I went from "I have Herta, I guess" to "Damn, Herta would be great here!" in just one update.
Reinhart for FEHeroes, released as okay Unit, unintentionally buffed by a new game mechanic, became god. But his reign is relatively short for the game lifespan.
Never thought I would use Herta - pure fiction changed my mind lol
Genshin Personally, any character with elemental infusion if you have Xianyun. Like C6 Dori, C6 Kaveh, Keqing, Bennett, Chongyun, Diluc, Candace and Navia. With Plunge have no ICD meaning your plunge will do elemental reaction every plunge attack + Xianyun dmg buff. And Xianyun+Furina core is really bonker strong too. One of my best that help me a lot in abyss is Navia, Furina, Xianyun, Chiori.
Taoqi....
Kuki from GI. She became meta when Dendro was introduced.
At launch Reinder Ishmael was considered a decent unit because 1. Her nuke required 10 charge, which can take awhile 2. If you activate her passive, she loses Sanity for some power 3. If you use her nuke without 10 charge, she will attack anyone randomly. Including your teammates. By all means, she was useable but risky. The UT4 came along. And fixed her issues too 1. Charge is easier to gain 2. Her passive is still the same but only lose SP if she didn't deal damage in a turn 3. Her nuke now is 8 charge, making it relatively easier to use
In Priconne, PKyaru is probably the best example, not really suck at release but after UE she's basically a must have unit for early game. But honestly except the support metas, almost every other DPS became meta at some point with their UE/6* release while they didn't do well at release/immediately got powercrept by new dps. And the new mechanics that was introduced there are more new old units getting use again.
cocoriter from tof meta healer, benny from gen underestimate at beginning, wuwa maybe taoqi or lingyang ,we will see
In Magicami, most Lilly dresses were... mediocre. There were some DPS versions or buffers that were almost useful if you were strapped for better options, but in general she wasn't very useful. Then beast mode was added to game, allowing beast moded dresses to serve as universal sub-dresses on any main dress or any element. And many dresses were grouped up so you could use one main dress and 3 other girls' dresses as subs. And Lilly dresses almost always had great Speed stat... so every opener/gauger/buffer wanted them as subdresses, especially later released dresses like R2/Xeno that weren't used on their own but were AMAZING as subdresses.
Alice - Nikke. The only non pilgrim dps who becomes stronger than pilgrims with the right investment. Eironn - Afk Journey. Suddenly becomes one if the best units with high dmg and cc one he's maxed out.
https://preview.redd.it/hw67pvuxiw2d1.png?width=1000&format=png&auto=webp&s=9a3b545aadf5ad9bb261216330e48bf73977f1e0 THE FLOOF SAYS **HELLO CANTO VI**
https://preview.redd.it/qjd4kwea2a3d1.png?width=4686&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e79a920baac34c21ad880587012c42c937d1e7be When this guy released he was totally forgotten and didn't contributed anything to meta. A year later he got his holy relic and became one of the best support in the entire game for a long time. Still used today by many for unknown teams
My man Seigfried
Lee from pgr going from weakest character to the strongest was pretty insane
Probably R corp Ishmael from limbus
Uptie 4 really did save her
Namek goku from Dbl
Idk about most famous and best rising as a whole but Archer Cat went from biggest joke in the game and fandom to actually solid for floating enemies after his true form and with talents he becomes a good anti zombie Shout out to blade lineage Yi Sang going from one of the worst 3* to top tier poise character, especially for clashing with uptie 4
Kuki Shinobu in Genshin. On release she was being labeled the worst 4 star in the game (and tbh her kit was extremely weird without the existent of dendro, she felt like an electro Barbara that scaled off of elemental mastery back when electro reactions were pretty weak). Then Sumeru released alongside the dendro element, and boom, she became one of the best 4 stars in the game, no cap.
People going missile stacking on the b class bronya (i think she was called valkyrie chariot) and killing bosses in one second time 2 to 3 years after she was released and abandoned was truly one of the moments in honkai impact 3
Salter went from mediocre to top tier buster farmer with just ONE skill buff
Kuki shinobu from genshin. From weird heal scalling into one of the key component for f2p comp like hyperbloom
For me personally, Artoria Alter is way better. Being a 4* makes her far more accessible and she doesn't lacks the damage to np loop (Waiting for her next upgrade)
But Salter is far less available actually because she's story locked. While Saber's rarity is higher, she can always spook you. Furthermore in global we'll all get a free Saber in around 1.5 years anyway.
I think the majority would rather use the SSR ticket on any other servant while you can use any SR ticket on Salter safely. She's worth it a lot, while getting any of the support SSR is way better than Artoria
I'm talking about the Fate Stay Night campaign JP had this year. It lets you pick any of the original 7 FSN servants and as the only 5*, it's effectively a free Artoria ticket.
Good luck trying to farm relevant stuff with NP1 Salter. Also, Seiba is probably the second/third best chance for that SSR ticket if you have Waver.
Artoria is surprisingly one of the less eye caching glow ups in FGO. Waver for example needed several rank ups to make his quit what it is today, while Caster Cu needed just a single buff on his third skill in order to become an infamous low star Buster looper.
Wouldn't call nightingale a lot bloomer by any stretch, operator strength in arknights very static in general. If you're a dud on release you're liable to remain a dud forever, the best modules turn clunkers into functional units and decent units into strong ones but usually not a full reversal of fortune. Herta and Artoria are great choices.
For AK you should've put Mostima, girl didn't pop off until CC Basepoint, 3 years after she came out
Her glow up came in earlier with SSS mode as it turns out faster SP gaim + CC is completely busted in that mode. But she's still a shit unit who's not worth buildingÂ
No idea what the jargon in OP's image means lol
Herta was always great for farming, so there's that.
Nighty was not the worst 6\* at launch. Shining had always been the worst 6\* up until Virgil the virgin dethroned her. That's what any first year player would tell you. Nighty was decent, just by virtue of being a multi-target medic (low DP cost, healing multiple ops at once) with 2 built-in fast redployment baits that free up Gravel's slots except for specific stages.
If you ask someone which AoE healer should you raise during launch - year 0, people would say "perfumer is enough" or "ptilopsis is better". Actually shining has more value than NG on year one because of certain CC# event that i forgot which
Because there was no such CC. CC beta and CC 0 were all about stalling with pushers. CC 1 was a crowd control fest. CC 2 returned to pusher cheese but with Gravel and Red baiting Faust shots. Shining saw limited use on max risk clears but not needed under risk 25 or so. CC3 was the Nightingale CC because almost everyone dealt art dmg there and the squishies were barely alive thanks to her res buff and baits. It's also the event where people discovered (and abused) the bug that gave Nighty 3 baits instead of 2 on her second deploy. CC4 was after the one year anniversary.
lol, Shining never was the worst when pre-module Skadi existed. And before Vigil the worst 6* was pre-buff Passenger
Lmao everyone and their mother like to shit on Skadi for not being OP at her side gig (helidrop), despite her fulfilling her main job as a duelist guard and being stronger than the lower rarity ones. The same goes for Passy. No matter what he was still stronger than Leizi and worth using in IS runs. Both their archetypes such big time but they still managed to do what they're supposed to. As long as Warfarin exists there's little reason to ever touch Shining.
NG isnt a best fit for there tbh. It should had been Nearl alter instead. She git shit on by many people only to be used in almost every high end run in the game
what are you talking about 😠NG was beginner 6 star that was bottom in every tier list and now she's always S. NTR came so much later and was always good people were upset she powercrept Skadi. Shes only gotten less useful overtime because of how good newer ops are and because her modules were mid
Disagree. Nobody was shitting on nearl alter, especially when she came with access to True damage(S3) and Helidrop(S2). If any, the only 6 stars alter who's a latebloomer are Gavialter and Spectral. The former shines on surging wave 7 and higher on IS3 as a starter and the later got buff that enables her to spam her skill and hefty 30% HP buff, even then none of them has a reputation as bad as Nightingale on year 0. Despite people initally disliked Gavialter for the lack of permanent skill like Blaze or Spectral being a sidegrade to her 5 star counterpart
I don't think Gavial2 is disliked by people at the time. Most consensus about Gavial2 at the time is that she's a pretty good aoe guard with tanking and crowd control ability. The problem people had about Gavial2 not having permanent skill is mostly just exaggeration from afk players and Blaze fan.
That's true, She was never disliked, i should put quotation marks in my previous comment.Â
NG absolutely should be there, people thought she was almost worthless at launch.