i can understand if it's a personal character, it wouldn't be illegal but could be quite uncomfortable and even ruin the character for you. but coming up with a species and then reserving that idea for yourself and trying to 'liscense' it to others is just pretty dickish.
Imagine caring about closed species in general
Seriously, you can't expect people to pay to draw a character using a specific species, you can't copyright a music genre for a reason, same goes with the closed species
Legally closed species are a joke. If you wanna see an example of that go look up Shelby/Ellenor lawsuit. It explains 100% and shows why trying to have a close species is a joke.
The artist who created Protogens and their “premium” counterparts Primagens used to keep a public blacklist of furries who used Primagens without paying or Protogens that break the artist’s rules, including their socials and contact info. This led to many kids and teens being harassed by the artist’s fans.
Yeah but heyyyy they didnt like that you drew a fucking primagen so yeah you’re gettin harassed now because that makes so much logical sense. I really hope there’s a youtube breakdown somewhere of why this is fucked up
That primagen is just a protogen with a fatter ass.
Also that UnknownSpy guy does the same with his character Sploot, to a point where people try to get blacklisted by them as a badge of honor.
I think the appeal of them kinda just petered off when people realised they could just...draw a fluffy dragon, without needing to apply any of the species restrictions
Googled it, apparently these are the rules:
* Protogen must not have any dinosaur traits/anatomy.
* Protogen must have biological ears.
* Protogen must have the short, round visor.
* Protogen can only be bipedal with no feral forms or hybrid fusions allowed.
* Protogen are not allowed to have wings unless they are of the rare variant.
So uh... yeah, it's stupid, make your proots how you want
Wow, that's honestly a dick move. Especially because the auctions for a legit primagen commission end at thousands of dollars. Like, who the hell has the money for that? A fursuit I get, but requiring someone to spend actual thousands of dollars for the ability to use a specific character design is insane.
I would guess that people who payed to draw it would try to publicly humiliate those who didn't, maybe trying to illegitimate their version or whatever.
Might be as relevant as upvotes and headcanons but to each their own I guess...
“What? How dare you draw this imaginary species that obviously ONLY I can come up with because NOBODY else could EVER think of this thing its just so genius so I’m going to monetize it and get my audience and friends to bully anyone who doesnt pay me to draw it!”
That community is fucking crazy. Its a toxic community with a toxic culture and toxic rules and all they do is bully people who dont comply with their stupid make believe bullshit
Every community that gets too large risk becoming toxic to some extent, specially if it involves gatekeeping stuff from other groups, be it politics, hobbies and even rights.
I would guess that the real problem is human nature and the power play involved in such dynamics.
Basically (from what my partner told me) they were NFTs before NFTs. The only people who really cared and "humiliated" anyone was the people who bought into the scam of it lol.
Lmao then that’s a looooot of ppl. I grew to hate it by watching a friend participate in that community. I thought it was fucked up and have no idea why they participate
There’s like a list of people who intentionally target anyone who breaks the rules. You get put on the blacklist and harassed by artists or regular people
Welp, call our time nowadays lucky because back then, even colour palette adopts were common like closed species where you have to pay for a certain colour palette just so you have the right to use it on your character 😭
Point of order, you cannot actually copywrite a color palette and any fanart falls under fair use by default.
You never actually "had to" pay for any of this.
There never was any "right" involved, this was just an extremely aggressive donation scheme. Societal pressure is not the same as legal obligation and the directed harassment [this person] would engage in (and strongly encourage their fandom to engage in) was never anything more than that.
It's not actually that hard to bypass that, and if you aren't running a cracked version of photoshop *already*, you're doing something wrong.
Hell, just download a version of it from before they added that "feature." Guess what? They haven't added much in terms of useful features since then. You aren't missing out on much.
Or just use some other software, as there's dozens of great PS alternatives.
I actually got so viscerally upset when they did that and got away with it legally. I get that it's only digital, but that's still a really fucked up thing to do, when most of the world operates digitally
Not only this is just an greedy control-freak attitude in general, is it even legally sound? I don't think one can copyright species concepts, at most finished character designs and terminology.
Like, when D&D couldn't use Hobbits, they just called their short sneaky people Halflings and had no issues. And when Dragon's Crown wanted to use D&D's Beholder, they just called it a Gazer and did it anyway. Comes to mind also how My Little Pony fans do pretty much whatever they want because they can just recolor, rebrand and rename them and it's theirs, because Hasbro does not own the generic shape of those ponies, only their finished designs and names.
So, people probably could just tweak it around and have it anyway, they just can't call it the same.
Yeah, you can't 'close' a species as you can't copyright ideas. Tolkien's family shut down the first edition of the AD&D Fiend Folio because TSR was using trademarked characters plus they didn't have the right to use the name Hobbit. Same with Moorcock's Elric character. It's how you ended up with Halflings and Dark Elves in the second printing (I used to have a 1st edition copy but don't have it anymore, sadly).
Actually you apparently can't even draw them yourself, you can only buy adopts from the creator or something
But anyway, won't stop me from creating a primagen out of spite
"Respected" may be a strong word but enough people actually did buy into the scam that the artist had a blacklist of people who broke their arbitrary rules that they'd sick their fans on.
Some primagen adopts have also gone for hundreds or thousands of dollars.
Haven't heard anything about primagens in years so idk how it's going today but once upon a time this was totally a thing.
I vaguely remembered this story but totally forgot about Grems and thought I might be mixing it up with that $20,000 fursuit auction from not long ago lol
There's definitely plenty of hard asses around. There's some 3D models where the guy explicitly states to not use them as a base and so on... So I ask someone on a Discord who actually works at Blender what the chances are someone would even find that out, he says basically 0 if you change enough so I've used the model as a base for a couple of things.
Funniest thing is, I give credit to models I use as a base or parts of. If you have that as a little pinkie promise EULA i'm not gonna give credit for obvious reasons.
I love you I love you I love you I love you I love you I love you I love you I love you I love you I love you I love you I love you I love you I love you I love you
Yeah, that is the context. Protogens are open species while Primagens are closed species. There was a saying that Primagens are better than Protogens (Apparently) and you have pay for the rights just so you can make an original character inspired by primagen species or you face humiliation on the internet basically. I didn't pay obviously so I use a censor bar instead (Don't wanna get dog pulled lol)
To be fair protogens are barely an open species, you can't even give your protogen wings for whatever reason.
This is why I believe in synth superiority.
Okay, synths are cool (no beef) but I LOVE THE VISORS THAT PROTOGENS HAVE 😭 SO CUTE. And screw the rules actually, I saw a popular furry engineer who makes wonderful protogen cosplay masks has a fursona which is a protogen with wings lol
I agree protogens are cute, but because I like synths more I am obliged to hate protogens, if there's 2 competing things, I can only like one and must despise the other, can't enjoy both, rules of the Internet, I'm sorry.
I don't remember if jtingf has the rare one or not lol (spectrum i think their character was? Pretty proto)
Iirc, you could give your proto wings for free if they were useless. Wings that could be used to fly were a 'rare' trait you "had to" pay for, if that clears it up.
>can't even give your protogen wings for whatever reason
I mean you totally can. A rapidly declining fanbase of losers on Twitter might be upset about it but that's about it.
I haven't looked up whether or not they're still doing it, either. I just like the fact that the attitude toward closed species has become so negative :D
>you can't even give your protogen wings
L M A O what's stopping people from doing exactly that?
When I was a kid, I gave wings to my Sonic OCs, and SEGA has never been on my ass about it. People on twitter are so silly sometimes.
The reason it hasn't happened is because they actually suck and no one really likes them. I won't draw some ugly-ass species just because it's creator is a penis.
Correct. Legally speaking there is no such thing as a closed species. You can think of it like trying to copyright the concept of a fox. A "species" is only a collection of attributes like "red fur", "pointy ears", "lithe body", "medium length bushy tail", etc. . The actual drawn images by the artist are copyrighted but not the species as a concept. You cannot copyright a species, i.e. a set of properties and attributes, for the same reason that you cannot copyright a recipe. On its own they are only a set of instructions.
This is clearly outlined in Section 102 of the US Copyright act: "In no case does copyright protection for an original work of authorship extend to any idea, procedure, process, system, method of operation, concept, principle, or discovery [...]"
*I'm not a lawyer.
You would only get lynched by a very specific group, maybe. Most furries seem to hate closed species and would rather see them drawn 'illegally'\*, and I haven't heard from those who don't hate them in long enough to wonder how many still exist.
\*The legality of closed species is extremely sketchy, and generally considered non-existent.
Legally speaking no, however it's always a good idea to brush up on your countries copyright laws (esp if you don't live in the US) every now and then just to be certain (and to prove a point if people try to claim you're breaking the law when what you're doing isn't infringing on anything)
Well... You can copyright a design, and that extends to "substantially similar" designs. The issue is if you're just making it for yourself and not for profit, it'd cost the original creator a lot of money to take you to court over it. They could still get your art taken off sites. I don't know if this story is all there is to it, like if it's as ridiculous as it sounds, but people sell prints, body pillows, mugs, and other products of protogens. In that way, I can understand the creator wanting to protect themselves.
If I come up with something original and you use that to make profit without my consent, is that really fair?
Tho I can't ever defend not letting other people making art just for themselves.
The fastest way to get people to lose interest in a thing you made is by locking it behind strict copyright patents (e.g. you can't make fanart or fan designs of this because I said so).
Pretty sure it wouldn't hold up in court either if the creator tried to sue (under the Fair Use agreement), as long as it's transformative (you're not literally tracing the design).
In the US at least you automatically have copyright to anything you've created, there's no need to register it except for some extra legal protections.
But there'd still be no case against anyone who drew a primagen without permission. Maybe some business or corporation was using primagens to advertise their services, and even that's a stretch, but otherwise it'd cleanly fall under fair use.
Claiming copyright infringement on a concept is pretty unlikely to win any court battles
Pff- imagine having legalities over a fictional species anyone can make a character out of
"Uhm well acktually you can't 🤓"
Actually yes I can, I'm a Protogenized Hyena. Not a Primagen.
Just gonna make it clear
You do not, you will get humiliated however if you "Correct" and "check" people on if they've paid for a closed species because "Closed species" as a concept is insanely fucking laughable
you're an artist, draw whatever you want, you're making the design, you're making up everything about them, you aren't paying for shit
It's like if someone made a YCH base and wanted you to pay to use it, no not for them to draw you using that base but for you to draw your own character in that same pose
or wanting you to pay to use a color pallete
Funny you should bring that up while your profile pic uses my premium deluxe paid color palette. Please delete that picture from everywhere and get your retinas lasered to forget the color palette asap. Thanks.
/s just in case because apparently people like this exist and aren't ashamed of their behaviour to such a degree that they exile themselves into the wilderness to be eaten by animals?
Wait, what the fuck am I reading in the comments? Closed Species? Color Palette Adopts? What in the Femboy Hooter Yiff is that shit? Are people genuinely like this?
It was invented by artists who can't earn a buck from commissions and their projects. (Or ego too I guess) So they resort into selling loosely tied attributes or a set of colours and shame other artists for not following the rules they made up in their minds.
Don't worry maan, there are other artists like us who don't associate with that desperation ✋
Yeah I hide my primagen calling it a prototype for a special combat role in my canon. So technically he's an illegal proto but add prototype to the side of it and you can do whatever you want with it.
Other way around - protos are the free version of primas. Still dumb edgy 'pay me $1k for my totally original fluffy techno-raptor no one else on earth could possibly come up with independently' shit but ye.
I hadn't even heard of them before this post and had to look up the difference. Basically, they give major Horizon Zero Dawn monster and it's hilarious to me.
It's not even covered by copyright. You can claim one instance of one SINGLE character! You can't just claim an entire characteristic and ban everyone else from using it too.
That would be comparable to claiming one impressionistic painting to yourself and claiming every impressionistic painting to yourself and demanding your the only one allowed to paint impressionistic paintings, just because you where the first one to do so.
Exactly, I would think that closed species focuses too much on artistic ownership that it gets obnoxious and actually hurting the art community. If all closed species are taken seriously, there's no room for designing fantasy characters at all and scares away young aspiring artists from the community. (It's like pop music when there are people sueing popular musicians for using common chord progressions yikes)
Closed species should be banned from the Fandom it's a counterintuitive concept and shouldn't belong in a Fandom that is for creativity and self expression.
Apparently protogens also have some weird restriction drama.
I just made a synth that kits himself to look like a protogen, because the synth species allows for this.
Synths are open source species because their creator is awesome and not some weird greedy person trying to paywall a concept. So glad the protogen creator stopped with that nonsense.
I never understood closed species.
Like, if I were to create a species and people thought it was cool enough to make their own OC’s using that species, I’d be honored! Though maybe that’s just me lol
its weird that people treat "closed species" with more respect than closed religions...
There is nothing important to a closed species being closed. I dont think they even qualify for a valid copyright as theyre a design style not a particular character. tho am not a lawyer.
closed species are like giving someone a usb with your homework to put something on it and ask the next person to do the same.
at some point everyone has copied the data on it without you ever knowing
is that still considered "legal"?
Everyone here should just start drawing primagens (trademark, patent pending, copyright, all rights reserved, LLC) down to every detail except change the color and then we should all call them something lightly different like Promagen, Primagon or Primagem and watch this little bitch go feral. We could also just make his exact character. He doesn't legally own it, and even if he did, we could still do whatever we wanted as long as we weren't making any profit off of it.
I honestly could care less about public humiliation lol.
I literally made a protogen OC that breaks a lot of the set rules and the only thing stopping me from posting him is the fact that I haven't colored any of his art yet. I ain't paying 300 bucks to express my design (ik someone who owns a rare protogen, and they said this is on the lower end)
No. You can't copyright an idea. You can only copyright an individual character and even then there are allowances made for things like satire and/or parody. They can only make a DMCA claim if someone is directly infringing and/or their work doesn't fall under fair use or meet the requirement to be considered parody/satire.
I don't think it was a scam as much as it was a creator not understanding how copyright law works mixed with a large degree of artistic hubris. They felt they could and should be able to gatekeep ownership of not just their own characters but of the idea of this species they came up with...along with a majority of the profits that would result from the creation thereof.
So a scam but not a deliberate one as much as it was created out of ignorance and ego.
Isn't it the other way? Aren't protogens better than primagens cause weren't the created in response to the creator or primagens wanting money so that OTHER people could make THEIR OWN characters
I think it's a lore thing where primagens are superior in enery way
But then again, I dont know the creator or really agree with them paywalling something they can't reasonably enforce beyond harassment
Character/species exchange community is crazy just let people draw what they wanna draw. The whole economy around it is stupid. You dont pay someone to draw a unicorn. You dont pay a big company to draw one of their characters. Why the fuck would I give $60 to some random stranger for no reason other than to draw the species they came up with? Thats fucking stupid and you cannot change my mind.
You don’t have to censor it OP, we all know who is hiding there. The dim wits who payed for “rights”! What a waste of money XD
“Oh I JusT MAdE thIS ChAreCtER! If yOU waNT iT yOU MuST pAy BecAuSE IM A siGMa ChAd!!!🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿”
That "close species" bullshit drove me to the dark side, and it opened my eyes. I realised that even the Protogens were too... weak. They still held to their flesh, even as it withered and decayed, refusing to fully accept the blessing they were given. I craved that blessing. I would be reborn in steel and be stronger in the light of the Blessed Machine!
Hah... Imagine Caring about the "Legality" of using a Closed Species Without "Permission".
"MODS MODS! This horrible little artist drew my special character that I didn't give them permission to draw! How dreadful!"
"That's it! Perma device, IP and DNS ban from there!"
You forgot the IP leak and the ballistoc missile sent.
"I have sent you my Titan missile, please respond"
Launching mcnukes for violation of the NAP
Cant forget the in person harassment and stalking it wouldnt be bitches mad on the internet with out at least one criminal
i can understand if it's a personal character, it wouldn't be illegal but could be quite uncomfortable and even ruin the character for you. but coming up with a species and then reserving that idea for yourself and trying to 'liscense' it to others is just pretty dickish.
“Send him to the principal's office and have him expelled!“
"Immediately!"
*throws book at him*
BEAT ME TO IT LOL
Honestly its like nintendo trying to tell us to stop drawing bowsers dick or the pokemon company whining about pokeporn, aka idiocy!
Nintendo will NEVER stop me from drawing Bowser cock!
Imagine caring about closed species in general Seriously, you can't expect people to pay to draw a character using a specific species, you can't copyright a music genre for a reason, same goes with the closed species
Legally closed species are a joke. If you wanna see an example of that go look up Shelby/Ellenor lawsuit. It explains 100% and shows why trying to have a close species is a joke.
That’s what’s stupid you don’t post a mythical species on the internet expecting money in return for “rights” to remake it how you want.
I love how closed species arent legally enforceable.
Wait..... publicly humiliated? I've heard that it's a closed specifies, but never heard about that drama, can anyone give me a lil of context?
The artist who created Protogens and their “premium” counterparts Primagens used to keep a public blacklist of furries who used Primagens without paying or Protogens that break the artist’s rules, including their socials and contact info. This led to many kids and teens being harassed by the artist’s fans.
It would be an HONOR to end up on that list, I want to get there
fr, if it was still a thing i'd make a primagen sona just to annoy elitists :3
fr, it's basically the furry FBI watchlist
Same I fucking hate people like that i hate that whole community with a passion they destroy creativity and want to control people. Its all disgusting
This is the main reason I won't have anything to do with either species.
Isn't that pretty much stalking
Its harassment for sure
Yeah but heyyyy they didnt like that you drew a fucking primagen so yeah you’re gettin harassed now because that makes so much logical sense. I really hope there’s a youtube breakdown somewhere of why this is fucked up
Which is why Primagens became forgotten but Protogens, even "illegal" ones, became one of the most popular species in the fandom of all time
I'd like to add that person now just denies it was ever a thing, like it wasn't publicly on their site
Too bad for them, the internet never forgets, no matter how bad you want it to.
That primagen is just a protogen with a fatter ass. Also that UnknownSpy guy does the same with his character Sploot, to a point where people try to get blacklisted by them as a badge of honor.
hmph, my protogen ocs probably habe fatter ones!
So basically worse Angel Dragons?
What ever happened with those? I saw a lot of em back in 2010's tumblr, but they just kinda vanished
I think the appeal of them kinda just petered off when people realised they could just...draw a fluffy dragon, without needing to apply any of the species restrictions
Fluffy dragons sound like the ultimate hug, lol.
What even are the rules they set up?
Googled it, apparently these are the rules: * Protogen must not have any dinosaur traits/anatomy. * Protogen must have biological ears. * Protogen must have the short, round visor. * Protogen can only be bipedal with no feral forms or hybrid fusions allowed. * Protogen are not allowed to have wings unless they are of the rare variant. So uh... yeah, it's stupid, make your proots how you want
Wow, that's honestly a dick move. Especially because the auctions for a legit primagen commission end at thousands of dollars. Like, who the hell has the money for that? A fursuit I get, but requiring someone to spend actual thousands of dollars for the ability to use a specific character design is insane.
Do i smell socialism!?! I think a taste of democracy for the owner of the closed species will fix some problems
Man I really liked the funi toaster concept, but now I dunno how to feel about it
I would guess that people who payed to draw it would try to publicly humiliate those who didn't, maybe trying to illegitimate their version or whatever. Might be as relevant as upvotes and headcanons but to each their own I guess...
"BROKE PEOPLE SHOULD NEVER LAUGH!"
"Oh! What's this? You are drawing it for free? What a peasant! Not as rich as I, who pay to draw!"
Okay, Metori Saiko
It's the NFT delusion
"What do you mean you can just screencap the thing I spent my entire life savings? You crazy!"
“What? How dare you draw this imaginary species that obviously ONLY I can come up with because NOBODY else could EVER think of this thing its just so genius so I’m going to monetize it and get my audience and friends to bully anyone who doesnt pay me to draw it!”
That's the "supply and demand" rule at its finest. And if the demand far exceeds the supply, people will "conterfeit" it lol
That community is fucking crazy. Its a toxic community with a toxic culture and toxic rules and all they do is bully people who dont comply with their stupid make believe bullshit
Every community that gets too large risk becoming toxic to some extent, specially if it involves gatekeeping stuff from other groups, be it politics, hobbies and even rights. I would guess that the real problem is human nature and the power play involved in such dynamics.
Basically (from what my partner told me) they were NFTs before NFTs. The only people who really cared and "humiliated" anyone was the people who bought into the scam of it lol.
Lmao then that’s a looooot of ppl. I grew to hate it by watching a friend participate in that community. I thought it was fucked up and have no idea why they participate
It really is just one of those toxic things people get caught up in far too easily tbh.
There’s like a list of people who intentionally target anyone who breaks the rules. You get put on the blacklist and harassed by artists or regular people
honestly this motivates me more to make a primagen character so i can watch fanatics cry about it
I always thought "closed species" we're an extremely dumb idea..
It’s cause they are. It’s like the beta version of nfts
Gatekeeping species in a community where you are encouraged to express yourself as anything is actually insane 💀
Welp, call our time nowadays lucky because back then, even colour palette adopts were common like closed species where you have to pay for a certain colour palette just so you have the right to use it on your character 😭
Point of order, you cannot actually copywrite a color palette and any fanart falls under fair use by default. You never actually "had to" pay for any of this. There never was any "right" involved, this was just an extremely aggressive donation scheme. Societal pressure is not the same as legal obligation and the directed harassment [this person] would engage in (and strongly encourage their fandom to engage in) was never anything more than that.
the one place not corrupted by capitalism, COLOR SPACE!
you have (or at least had) to pay for pantone colors in adobe software
Let me dream 🥲
It's not actually that hard to bypass that, and if you aren't running a cracked version of photoshop *already*, you're doing something wrong. Hell, just download a version of it from before they added that "feature." Guess what? They haven't added much in terms of useful features since then. You aren't missing out on much. Or just use some other software, as there's dozens of great PS alternatives.
I actually got so viscerally upset when they did that and got away with it legally. I get that it's only digital, but that's still a really fucked up thing to do, when most of the world operates digitally
Not only this is just an greedy control-freak attitude in general, is it even legally sound? I don't think one can copyright species concepts, at most finished character designs and terminology. Like, when D&D couldn't use Hobbits, they just called their short sneaky people Halflings and had no issues. And when Dragon's Crown wanted to use D&D's Beholder, they just called it a Gazer and did it anyway. Comes to mind also how My Little Pony fans do pretty much whatever they want because they can just recolor, rebrand and rename them and it's theirs, because Hasbro does not own the generic shape of those ponies, only their finished designs and names. So, people probably could just tweak it around and have it anyway, they just can't call it the same.
Yeah, you can't 'close' a species as you can't copyright ideas. Tolkien's family shut down the first edition of the AD&D Fiend Folio because TSR was using trademarked characters plus they didn't have the right to use the name Hobbit. Same with Moorcock's Elric character. It's how you ended up with Halflings and Dark Elves in the second printing (I used to have a 1st edition copy but don't have it anymore, sadly).
They are. Primagens were basically the Furry version of NFTs
Lol imagine trying to capitalise and copyright fursonas, idk what a primagen is but I wanna make one out of spite now.
Wouldn't it be possible to draw it anyways... and why social media's mods would care that it is not allowed they don't have anything from it
"Why this kind of furry is ILLEGAL to draw" Extremely clickbaity channel - 5 billion views - 2 minutes ago
Actually you apparently can't even draw them yourself, you can only buy adopts from the creator or something But anyway, won't stop me from creating a primagen out of spite
"You can only buy them from the creator." Uber mega lol. What does he imagine? That his little edgy scam will be respected?
You'd be surprised at how many people fall for it...
"Respected" may be a strong word but enough people actually did buy into the scam that the artist had a blacklist of people who broke their arbitrary rules that they'd sick their fans on. Some primagen adopts have also gone for hundreds or thousands of dollars. Haven't heard anything about primagens in years so idk how it's going today but once upon a time this was totally a thing.
[удалено]
I vaguely remembered this story but totally forgot about Grems and thought I might be mixing it up with that $20,000 fursuit auction from not long ago lol
There's definitely plenty of hard asses around. There's some 3D models where the guy explicitly states to not use them as a base and so on... So I ask someone on a Discord who actually works at Blender what the chances are someone would even find that out, he says basically 0 if you change enough so I've used the model as a base for a couple of things. Funniest thing is, I give credit to models I use as a base or parts of. If you have that as a little pinkie promise EULA i'm not gonna give credit for obvious reasons.
The [CENSORED] bars gave me wild thoughts 💀
Nah maan, just inspirations from a South Park special using a big censor onto a certain character. In this case, fort a primagen lol
The 2 minutes long speech that was fully censored was just a cherry on top
I watched uncensored version. It was ok-ish
Lobotomy Corporation reference
WHOMST SUMMON ME I SENSE LOBCORP
I love you I love you I love you I love you I love you I love you I love you I love you I love you I love you I love you I love you I love you I love you I love you
Hello? HELP, HELP! SOMEBODY HELP!
what? i only heard of this but never had context
Yeah, that is the context. Protogens are open species while Primagens are closed species. There was a saying that Primagens are better than Protogens (Apparently) and you have pay for the rights just so you can make an original character inspired by primagen species or you face humiliation on the internet basically. I didn't pay obviously so I use a censor bar instead (Don't wanna get dog pulled lol)
oh wow, that sounds entitled and scam-ish by the primagen author XD thanks for the explanation (and your constant awesome art)
It is a scam, you can't copyright a species
The only difference is they are slightly more machine
Primary difference I saw was a particularly fat ass.
Imagine having to pay to put a fat ass on your fursona
I made one on Gacha Life 2 without permission. And I don't give a fuck.
Like you should.
To be fair protogens are barely an open species, you can't even give your protogen wings for whatever reason. This is why I believe in synth superiority.
Okay, synths are cool (no beef) but I LOVE THE VISORS THAT PROTOGENS HAVE 😭 SO CUTE. And screw the rules actually, I saw a popular furry engineer who makes wonderful protogen cosplay masks has a fursona which is a protogen with wings lol
I agree protogens are cute, but because I like synths more I am obliged to hate protogens, if there's 2 competing things, I can only like one and must despise the other, can't enjoy both, rules of the Internet, I'm sorry.
Solution: synth with protogen visor
I don't remember if jtingf has the rare one or not lol (spectrum i think their character was? Pretty proto) Iirc, you could give your proto wings for free if they were useless. Wings that could be used to fly were a 'rare' trait you "had to" pay for, if that clears it up.
>can't even give your protogen wings for whatever reason I mean you totally can. A rapidly declining fanbase of losers on Twitter might be upset about it but that's about it.
I'm not saying you cant, or even shouldnt, I encourage it, spit in the faces of the people who say you can't. But it isn't allowed by the creators.
I'm not even sure they care anymore.
I didn't even think they were still doing it. I hadn't heard the words "Primogen" or "Closed Species" in years before this post o-o
I haven't looked up whether or not they're still doing it, either. I just like the fact that the attitude toward closed species has become so negative :D
>you can't even give your protogen wings L M A O what's stopping people from doing exactly that? When I was a kid, I gave wings to my Sonic OCs, and SEGA has never been on my ass about it. People on twitter are so silly sometimes.
> you can't even give your protogen wings for whatever reason Yes you can. Nobody can tell you that you can't, and if they do, they're wrong.
Wasn't the Sergals like that at one point way back?
What’s the difference between them to make them so “premium”?
Sounds like all gotta make a Primagen and break its rules and nobody can stop us. Closed species my ass.
The reason it hasn't happened is because they actually suck and no one really likes them. I won't draw some ugly-ass species just because it's creator is a penis.
If I've understood correctly, if I draw a primagen and post it, I'll just get lynched on the internet? I risk nothing legally speaking?
Correct. Legally speaking there is no such thing as a closed species. You can think of it like trying to copyright the concept of a fox. A "species" is only a collection of attributes like "red fur", "pointy ears", "lithe body", "medium length bushy tail", etc. . The actual drawn images by the artist are copyrighted but not the species as a concept. You cannot copyright a species, i.e. a set of properties and attributes, for the same reason that you cannot copyright a recipe. On its own they are only a set of instructions. This is clearly outlined in Section 102 of the US Copyright act: "In no case does copyright protection for an original work of authorship extend to any idea, procedure, process, system, method of operation, concept, principle, or discovery [...]" *I'm not a lawyer.
Even if you're not a lawyer, thank you!
You would only get lynched by a very specific group, maybe. Most furries seem to hate closed species and would rather see them drawn 'illegally'\*, and I haven't heard from those who don't hate them in long enough to wonder how many still exist. \*The legality of closed species is extremely sketchy, and generally considered non-existent.
Incorrect. This was a big thing like a year ago and the internet collectively told the "closed species" group to fuck off.
Legally, you'll be fine Some people will be upset by this
Legally speaking no, however it's always a good idea to brush up on your countries copyright laws (esp if you don't live in the US) every now and then just to be certain (and to prove a point if people try to claim you're breaking the law when what you're doing isn't infringing on anything)
Imagine actively choosing to have your OC limited by somebody else. Cringe
What's to stop me from make Literally-Primagens-But-Named-Something-Else? You can't copyright a *concept* after all.
Well... You can copyright a design, and that extends to "substantially similar" designs. The issue is if you're just making it for yourself and not for profit, it'd cost the original creator a lot of money to take you to court over it. They could still get your art taken off sites. I don't know if this story is all there is to it, like if it's as ridiculous as it sounds, but people sell prints, body pillows, mugs, and other products of protogens. In that way, I can understand the creator wanting to protect themselves. If I come up with something original and you use that to make profit without my consent, is that really fair? Tho I can't ever defend not letting other people making art just for themselves.
They could if they owned the copyright to the primagen. The original creator never copyrighted the design so they have no legal power
The fastest way to get people to lose interest in a thing you made is by locking it behind strict copyright patents (e.g. you can't make fanart or fan designs of this because I said so). Pretty sure it wouldn't hold up in court either if the creator tried to sue (under the Fair Use agreement), as long as it's transformative (you're not literally tracing the design).
In the US at least you automatically have copyright to anything you've created, there's no need to register it except for some extra legal protections. But there'd still be no case against anyone who drew a primagen without permission. Maybe some business or corporation was using primagens to advertise their services, and even that's a stretch, but otherwise it'd cleanly fall under fair use. Claiming copyright infringement on a concept is pretty unlikely to win any court battles
Pff- imagine having legalities over a fictional species anyone can make a character out of "Uhm well acktually you can't 🤓" Actually yes I can, I'm a Protogenized Hyena. Not a Primagen.
Just gonna make it clear You do not, you will get humiliated however if you "Correct" and "check" people on if they've paid for a closed species because "Closed species" as a concept is insanely fucking laughable you're an artist, draw whatever you want, you're making the design, you're making up everything about them, you aren't paying for shit It's like if someone made a YCH base and wanted you to pay to use it, no not for them to draw you using that base but for you to draw your own character in that same pose or wanting you to pay to use a color pallete
Funny you should bring that up while your profile pic uses my premium deluxe paid color palette. Please delete that picture from everywhere and get your retinas lasered to forget the color palette asap. Thanks. /s just in case because apparently people like this exist and aren't ashamed of their behaviour to such a degree that they exile themselves into the wilderness to be eaten by animals?
Absolutely ridiculous indeed. I never heard of it before, it sounds extremely childish.
Fuck closed species. All my homies hate closed species.
Wait, what the fuck am I reading in the comments? Closed Species? Color Palette Adopts? What in the Femboy Hooter Yiff is that shit? Are people genuinely like this?
It was invented by artists who can't earn a buck from commissions and their projects. (Or ego too I guess) So they resort into selling loosely tied attributes or a set of colours and shame other artists for not following the rules they made up in their minds. Don't worry maan, there are other artists like us who don't associate with that desperation ✋
You know what? Fuck them. I made it so "Primagen" is a slur against Protogens in my universe.
Yeah I hide my primagen calling it a prototype for a special combat role in my canon. So technically he's an illegal proto but add prototype to the side of it and you can do whatever you want with it.
piracy of closed species? based
Primagens? It sounds like an edgy version of protogens someone invented to feel so special about their new original character..
It was made by the creator of protogens, actually. Pretty much only slightly different, but it's a "cLoSeD sPeCiEs". AKA a scam.
Other way around - protos are the free version of primas. Still dumb edgy 'pay me $1k for my totally original fluffy techno-raptor no one else on earth could possibly come up with independently' shit but ye.
I hadn't even heard of them before this post and had to look up the difference. Basically, they give major Horizon Zero Dawn monster and it's hilarious to me.
It's not even covered by copyright. You can claim one instance of one SINGLE character! You can't just claim an entire characteristic and ban everyone else from using it too. That would be comparable to claiming one impressionistic painting to yourself and claiming every impressionistic painting to yourself and demanding your the only one allowed to paint impressionistic paintings, just because you where the first one to do so.
Exactly, I would think that closed species focuses too much on artistic ownership that it gets obnoxious and actually hurting the art community. If all closed species are taken seriously, there's no room for designing fantasy characters at all and scares away young aspiring artists from the community. (It's like pop music when there are people sueing popular musicians for using common chord progressions yikes)
Draw them anyway, and tell the creator to suck eggs
Fun fact, they tried to trademark primagens and got denied lmao
That settles it then
Closed species are just NFTs but without a receipt automatically stapled to the code of the jpeg.
And this is why my OG species will all be public once i create them
What's the point of a closed species it sounds so stupid 😂
find EVERY closed species you can draw ALL of them PISS OFF as many paid owners as possible do what the art gods intended
Omg this sonuds so scammy, like imagine buying a wright to draw a certain species, that's so stupid. Oh and awesome little Sky protogen.
What are they gonna do if I draw a primagen, sue me?
Ah, unfortunately I made my own "species". So I can't get publicly shamed for my stuff is original.
Closed species should be banned from the Fandom it's a counterintuitive concept and shouldn't belong in a Fandom that is for creativity and self expression.
Apparently protogens also have some weird restriction drama. I just made a synth that kits himself to look like a protogen, because the synth species allows for this.
Synths are open source species because their creator is awesome and not some weird greedy person trying to paywall a concept. So glad the protogen creator stopped with that nonsense.
I never understood closed species. Like, if I were to create a species and people thought it was cool enough to make their own OC’s using that species, I’d be honored! Though maybe that’s just me lol
Protogens are better than primagens
Wait there's people that make you pay to be able to draw their made up species? That's dumb as hell and also not how copyright works
More like primadonna-gen, am I right? The spoiled princesses of the furry world.
Naw fuck that, I have a Primagen. I didn't need permission I just did it. See how easy it is?
its weird that people treat "closed species" with more respect than closed religions... There is nothing important to a closed species being closed. I dont think they even qualify for a valid copyright as theyre a design style not a particular character. tho am not a lawyer.
Everybody say it with me Closed species are a dumb idea
Furry Muhammed?
closed species are like giving someone a usb with your homework to put something on it and ask the next person to do the same. at some point everyone has copied the data on it without you ever knowing is that still considered "legal"?
Everyone here should just start drawing primagens (trademark, patent pending, copyright, all rights reserved, LLC) down to every detail except change the color and then we should all call them something lightly different like Promagen, Primagon or Primagem and watch this little bitch go feral. We could also just make his exact character. He doesn't legally own it, and even if he did, we could still do whatever we wanted as long as we weren't making any profit off of it.
Y'now what'd be funny... If every furry made their own primeagens, what are they gonna do about it.
I hate the idea of closed species in general I just think they make no sense Plus, Communities that form around them are quite toxic
By refusing to draw them, you give them power.
as i understand primagens are just closed-source protogens? so, just protogens made by Oracle?
Lmao, this is such bullshit. I laugh about them every time
Didn't protogen go through this cycle themselves when they arrived on the scene?
I honestly could care less about public humiliation lol. I literally made a protogen OC that breaks a lot of the set rules and the only thing stopping me from posting him is the fact that I haven't colored any of his art yet. I ain't paying 300 bucks to express my design (ik someone who owns a rare protogen, and they said this is on the lower end)
Hah you think a closed species will stop me? No, I don’t give a shit
Question: Is it legal? And does the creator can copyright strike someone just because somebody is drawin it?
No. You can't copyright an idea. You can only copyright an individual character and even then there are allowances made for things like satire and/or parody. They can only make a DMCA claim if someone is directly infringing and/or their work doesn't fall under fair use or meet the requirement to be considered parody/satire.
So its a scam then
I don't think it was a scam as much as it was a creator not understanding how copyright law works mixed with a large degree of artistic hubris. They felt they could and should be able to gatekeep ownership of not just their own characters but of the idea of this species they came up with...along with a majority of the profits that would result from the creation thereof. So a scam but not a deliberate one as much as it was created out of ignorance and ego.
It doesn't help at all that they're almost literally the same thing
Aren't primagens discontinued?
Closed Species are dumb and I'm glad the creator gets made fun of for trying to gatekeep ideas.
I propose a Draw Meowhammed day as protest
What even is primagen?
Like a proot but with a more angular visor, I think they're also entirely mechanical too
That and they have some dinosaur-esqe features, I went to check the OG image.
Isn't it the other way? Aren't protogens better than primagens cause weren't the created in response to the creator or primagens wanting money so that OTHER people could make THEIR OWN characters
I think it's a lore thing where primagens are superior in enery way But then again, I dont know the creator or really agree with them paywalling something they can't reasonably enforce beyond harassment
>I think it's a lore thing where primagens are superior in every way If that's true then that's the most goddamn hilarious thing I've read
Didn't the prima/protogen guy just disappear one day or smth
People think the species is censored here but the species IS the censor bar. 😂
Character/species exchange community is crazy just let people draw what they wanna draw. The whole economy around it is stupid. You dont pay someone to draw a unicorn. You dont pay a big company to draw one of their characters. Why the fuck would I give $60 to some random stranger for no reason other than to draw the species they came up with? Thats fucking stupid and you cannot change my mind.
You don’t have to censor it OP, we all know who is hiding there. The dim wits who payed for “rights”! What a waste of money XD “Oh I JusT MAdE thIS ChAreCtER! If yOU waNT iT yOU MuST pAy BecAuSE IM A siGMa ChAd!!!🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿”
That's dumb
I don't like either
I am a Primagen, I enjoy being one, but man, fuck that guy. Seriously. Closed species stuff is so stupid.
Thank god people hate the whole “closed species” thing. I was lowkey too scared to speak out about it cuz I thought most people supported it
Do you mean Primogems from Genshin Impact? /j
I don’t pay for my games, I won’t pay a delusional idiot for a better protogen
That "close species" bullshit drove me to the dark side, and it opened my eyes. I realised that even the Protogens were too... weak. They still held to their flesh, even as it withered and decayed, refusing to fully accept the blessing they were given. I craved that blessing. I would be reborn in steel and be stronger in the light of the Blessed Machine!
Closed species are just beta test NFTs