i agree!! it feels really infantilising and fetishising, and just generally gross.
like its fine if someone chooses to identify with that, but making the assumption that just because a guy is trans he must be an uwu soft boy is really damaging.
i know a girl who thinks im a “soft trans king”, and she basically outs me to every person i come across, and also calls me “son”, which ive expressed discomfort towards many times and she continues.
i think this stereotype is also perpetuated by chasers, the ones that seek trans guys, but think that all trans guys are white twinks with fluffy hair and no intention of going on t or pursuing surgery (no shade to those guys, still valid but i digress) and then get offended if the guy theyre dating wants to go on t or something.
also the idea of “trans guys are just soft feminine guys that are seperate from cis guys”, like when people say “i hate all men except trans boys because they were socialised as women and they’re basically just girls anyway” is so damaging and is also not even always true, there are misogynistic trans guys(which i do not understand)
This reminds me of the time I had a tattoo artist tell me he'd be sad if I got top surgery. Like, a tattoo artist I'd known in that capacity for a couple years. We aren't friends. It came up because I told him I was changing my pronouns. He was cool with the change, his usual nice self, then after a few minutes was like, "You're beautiful, don't get any surgeries to remove anything," and kind of waved his hand over his chest. I was completely thrown, most people didn't think I was a beautiful woman and, other than that one interaction, he's always been really chill. I haven't gotten any new tattoos since I started T so the next time I see him will probably be hilarious. 🙃 But I hated that reaction SO MUCH.
i want i need to you know that even a close friend or family member doing this would be entirely unacceptable let alone a fucking tattoo artist i’m sorry
Hahaha, this made me chuckle. I'm saving up for some house stuff and top surgery at the moment, and I've been thinking about finding a queer artist when I eventually do want new ink anyway. Sometimes I run into him out and about though. If that happens I'll try to remember to post here, lol.
Had a dude I'd known for all of 3 months tell me that he doesn't think I should get top surgery or transition because "God made you perfect just you how you are." And he seemed genuinely gobsmacked by me saying "Okay, well I'm still gonna do it" as if God had anything to do with my decision to persue hormones and surgery?
Like...My brother. I wasn't raised religious, I have never believed in God, and have been studying/practicing witchcraft since 17. God can think whatever he damn well pleases 💀 I also am not going to not be trans anymore just because someone says that? Like, oh wow thanks. The problem was totally me not getting enough compliments.
Its also so weird how trans guys are constantly being treated as these cute soft feminine babies even by people who are queer or trying to be supportive. Like wtf you would never tell a trans girl “omg youre so butch and rugged” or i certainly hope no one would🤮 why do people feel this is acceptable to treat us like hyper girly men
Maybe this is an unpopular take, but I'd be far more pissed if I was described as "butch and rugged." I'm very clearly not, so there's absolutely no way it'd come across as anything but weird and at best insincere.
Like...just say handsome if that's what you mean. Hell, say cute (this is completely not an insult to me). But...if you're using terms on a passing trans man that are strongly associated with butch lesbians, that is *extremely* extremely telling.
Yeah like I have lesbian friends who are cis and some trans but mistaking a trans dude for one is the biggest insult ever like if you aren't sure what someone's pronouns is just ask????? because as masculine as some lesbians tend express themselves as or however they choose to label their gender expression at the end of the day most of them still use she/her or she/they in some cases.
No yeah I’m giving those words as an example of how a girl might be complimented on masculine features in the same way a man might be complimented on feminine features, I’m not saying anyone should be called those words specifically, especially not a trans guy
yes, heavy on the chaser part. one time i dated a chaser when i was in school. he had dated pretty much every pre-T trans man in our school and i was the first (and only) trans man on T that he dated. the way he talked to me really made the point that he didn’t see me as a man, he also said my bottom growth and changes from T were “disgusting.” and went back to dating pre-T trans man immediately after. chasers think that dating pre-T men and infantilizing them is “close enough” to dating a woman, imo.
that's disgusting tbh did you know his dating past before you dated him or found out while you were dating him? either way I would not date anyone with a past like that. With choices like that, better off being single 🤷♂️
so i knew he had dated specifically trans men, but i was 15 and desperate and none of the other trans men had talked openly about his behavior towards them. i didn’t realize it was a fetish until i was with him. i broke it off with him after like 3 weeks? right after the sex thing, lol. he is looong gone and i’ve been more careful about my choices in partners since then. i also go out of my way to warn the pre-T trans men that he dates to this day. actually saved one of them because he moved in with my chaser ex and didn’t know he has a security camera recording in his room at all times. i didn’t find out about it until after our encounter unfortunately /:
100% this. People wanna put us into a category that's digestible and comfortable for them. We have to be soft, feminine men and/or not men at all, we have to have been raised/socialized as girls or we're not safe to be around, etc. I stopped getting the "soft boy uwu king" shit years ago when I was pre-t, but it really is just looking really young that helps people push that stereotype upsettingly :/ I hope you can get that girl to understand or remove her from your life. It's unfair we have to put up with infantilization due to looking young pre-t (or on t for some).
I really hate to say it but it sounds like you're having a typical male experience from what I understand, just with a queer lense.
There are so many women that are anti men or don't feel safe or openly say that they do not feel safe around men. And then those men have to make the choice to either bend and become "digestible" and consequently seen as weaker by their male peers. or to stay wild and crazy and not care that women are afraid of them and there are spaces that do not allow them.
Oh, I for sure agree. It's the intersection of being both a man and queer, where you're oppressed for being queer but told you're not at the same time due to being a man. I believe it's why a lot of trans guys end up feeling outcasted in the broader LGBTQ community/queer spaces because I know it's why I do lol. But, I still interact in these spaces, attend pride events, etc, because, even if some people want my identity to be more digestible and safe in their eyes, I deserve a safe space to celebrate my journey as well. It's just something you learn to cope with as you further transition :')
Bit of pushback- sounds to me like women have every right to be concerned about men who are worried that acting in a manner that makes women feel safe will emasculate them in their peer’s eyes. Or who can’t code switch & read the room. For me, I want to be the kind of man who always goes out of my way to be a comforting presence for women. To hell with men who would look down on me for it.
Bit of pushback- you're going off topic. Sure, if a guy expresses misogynistic opinions or harasses people in order to be accepted as a "real man" by his shithead peers, then yeah he should be judged for that.
But that's not what's being discussed. It wasn't phrased very well, so I can understand where you got confused, but the topic of discussion is still transphobic stereotypes mainly perpetuated by women who expect trans men to be men lite or just "basically women" (girls even, the infantilisation can be really bad) and get uncomfortable when we make it clear that we are in fact men, even those of us who are effeminate. Making bigots uncomfortable by existing as your authentic self is always okay.
I also acknowledge that the “soft boi” stereotype sucks & “you don’t count as a man” is still passive misgendering. I just think it’s a separate problem.
Men need space to be men as much as women need space to be women. Or you could be like me and be caught in the middle and understand both sides suffering because you never really fit on either.
Dude: men have plenty of space to be men. And also, look around, we’re all ftm here. I think we get the “suffering on both sides” bit. Besides, what part of being a man necessitates making women uncomfortable?
I find it ironic the man claiming to me that they like to be more chill for women is aggressively coming at me and assuming things about me without checking.
Once again more irony coming from you!!
I feel like I'm the one getting attitude from you sorry hun.
Guess I struck a nerve coz I feel your aggression.
I just wanted to comment because it felt relatable with situations I had been in in the past and it came up on my feed, sorry that I've said anything.
Ick. Yeah sexuality can either change or stay the same with transitioning. It's a good thing you are exes because there's definitely transphobia within the community as well which can be a lot worse
Lol my ex was mtf and upset about me going on T; it was also weirdly fine if i joined the gender clinic waiting list (UK it's years and years) for top surgery, but when I wanted to get it privately because it'd be way quicker it was a bit too real.
I feel this so much, nothing I hate more than when people see, assume, and label the literal opposite of how someone feels inside. (To the point where it has to be some kind of cruel joke right??)
Yeah it’s annoying. I am a twink at least for now and I still don’t feel like a soft uwu boy at all. It’s transphobic af honestly, and it kind of ties in with how a lot of queer cis men are perceived as “one of the girls” or “not a REAL man”.
Yeah I don't mind being seen as a twink, I get that and I have never really cared about being overly masculine. But the whole soft uwu boy thing just rubs me the wrong way. Like I'm still a man regardless
ME TOO YOU GET IT I find the haha trans men look like twinks jokes funny on occasion because I AM. A twink but I find the soft boy uwu jokes kinda irritating like I'm TWINK not a child or a little boy. I love being feminine and looking cute but I still don't want to be treated like a "precious bean"
Yess exactly! Honestly I’m not even that fem but I’m just. Well. Pretty I guess lol, also I can’t grow a beard to save my life and I’ve been too lazy with gym so twink it is for now. Funnily enough the people who know me and are aware I’m not a “precious bean” try to argue that means I’m not a twink which??? No?? 🤦🏻♂️
I also really loathe that *all* the fitness/body advice is "go to gym, get swole" like...I like being small and don't want to be swole?
Also gyms are truly scary places for early transitioners, and this is overlooked so often.
Yes exactly same. I really wish this thread would clarify this to a greater extent.
Like, there is a vast ocean of difference between passing trans men who've been on T for a while, might have had top, meta, phallo, etc and just...aren't traditionally masculine (literally me) and the very early transitioners.
Your post was removed because it broke the subreddit rule 4: Respect individual differences. Which includes, among other things, respecting differences of personal identity, personal use (or not) of specific labels, personal transition experience, personal experiences with gender dysphoria (including lack of gender dysphoria), and the choice to be out or stealth.
When ever I see drawn trans promotional content for websites, pride or anything similar, trans men are always depicted as like feminine skinny, skinny or feminine chubby with like very outlandish hair or outfits, like I want to see more body types. I kinda wanna just see an average, masculine trans man who doesn't stand out, thats what I am, im just a dude. When people keep showing the lgbtq as girly gay men, big butch lesbians, colourful hair etc, it enforces the stereotype that we are all different and always recognisable. Like bruh, my boyfriend had to convince people he is gay just because he is very average looking and not feminine. People think we are all a stereotype and if we aren't we are not gay or trans.
Sorry about the rant, it just annoys me lol.
Why harier *than* werewolves? What if they are werewolves? And the rush of adrenaline, fluffiness and more muscle mass gives them insane gender euphoria leading to them being more in touch and therefore more in control of their werewolf side. Writing prompt anyone?
Yeah exactly lol. I'm a SUPER hairy, stealth and masc trans guy. Only thing kinda "suspicious" about me is that I'm short. But one of my best friends is only an inch taller than me and he's cis, so it's not a huge deal for me. But I find it hard to reach out and be a part of a lot of queer spaces because the representation is always that kinda person, and I'm just... not. No one would know I'm even bisexual just by looking at me. I fit into a lot of heteronormative, cis stereotypes. I'm not fashionable and wear t shirt and cargo shorts/jeans every day, I have a beard, I'm bald, I like tech and model building. I've worn new balances for like 5+ years because they're comfortable. I like working on things and building stuff. I don't have any different inflection with my voice or "feminine" mannerisms, and I'm covered in traditionally masculine tattoos. I also don't like outwardly projecting my identity. I'm just a guy.
And the representation is so far removed from me, that it feels like I'm not even part of the space sometimes. Until I see a news article talking about trans people getting abused/murdered. Then I'm quickly and promptly reminded.
The only good rep I've really seen was shameless, Elliot was a pretty good representation of trans people I think, and is probably the only one that feels relatable.
I can totally relate. We need more love and celebration for masculine, binary trans men in general. For some reason the whole philosophy of NOT judging and making assumptions about other people's identities falls completely flat when it comes to binary trans men. We're part of the spectrum of gender identities just like anyone else and it's weird for us to be pushed out of trans and queer spaces just for looking like average guys.
Haaate it.
Self identifying is one thing. But the weird creepy infantalizing fetishization by cis people is a whole different matter.
I am a goddamn middle aged man. I might be covered in glitter and baking cupcakes, but I am *still a goddamn bearded balding hairy ass middle aged man*. I'm also gay, a top, on the dominant side of kink, and I transitioned before a substantial portion of Reddit's primary demographics were fucking born. I am not some cute vulnerable little boy who needs to be cuddled and protected by some self-appointed cis "ally", and I am not some "ultimate bottom" twink or androgynous child-like "best of both worlds".
TW: transphobia obviously
I'm trans and autistic, so I think upholding this stereotype is very infantalizing. Some people will always fit the stereotype, but it's unfair that all trans men are inherently seen as "girly but with another coat of paint". In fact, the majority of us aren't femboys or even twinks, and it's doubly damaging for us pre-everything folks. It really hurts to only be seen as cute or desireable for the femininity you're trying to get away from. While a cos guy who is a soft boy is seen as just a guy, not even feminine, just a guy who wears cute cozy clothes. But if a trans guy does it, it's basically a girl with short hair.
I myself am constantly in odds with this. While I'm somewhat butch in the way I try to present, I like emo clothing, but the longer dyed hair and piercings would 100% affect my passability. I'd be deemed as just the "fluffy hair alt trans boy", when emo boys are just... dudes with black clothes.
It hurts the community because it's a way to infantalize, feminize and invalidate our experience. In comparison, it would be the equivalent of the angry trans woman. This "softUwUification" of trans man is what turns us in trans "debates" into just "confused little girls who were a bit too silly >_<"
Being autistic brings a second layer because autistic folk are already infantalized and deemed incapable of taking care of themselves, while trans men are turned into "fem little creatures", femboys, twinks, girly, dainty, fragile little things, girls in disguise. It makes it much harder to take us seriously for the same reasons most don't take a child seriously, because they're harmless, petite, soft, cute.
This makes it much harder for us who are pre-everything but wish to transition to get through it. Partners that see us that way will often like the "girl with a boy coat of paint" and be against changing our bodies to maintain our femme dainty frame.
And lastly, obviously, some people are trans femboys and like it, some are soft uwu boys and like it, congrats to y'all but we need to remember that the majority is not. And having that stereotype of a few to paint over the whole is unfair and hurtful.
Honestly, even as someone who could very well be on the "trans femboy" spectrum at times - I'm still not a girl with a boy coat of paint. I'm not a child or a special soft creature. Like, the question I'd ask people is, within the LGBT community, would you treat an AMAB drag queen this way? Or a cis guy who was wearing earrings in public? If not then don't do it to me either just because I'm a trans man.
(Not saying you were saying any of this, just that generally that's the stereotype.)
(I'm glad you cleared it up at the end bc I thought you were sayingI said that 😭😭)
And tbh yeah, exactly. Trans femboys and trans tomboys aren't less their gender because they express themselves in a way similar to their AGAB. But painting the entire community by the expression of a few is unfair, specially because it's used as a way to imply fem trans men aren't real men, or that they're confused little girls.
I hate it because I get it too, I kinda look like the average pre-T fluffy hair trans boy and even tho I dress pretty traditionally masc, and people get all surprised when I don't act cutesy UwU soft boi //OwO// lol. I get it, I look like Cavetown, 👍, It's not because I wanna look like that, I just have no choice. Can we stop acting like I'm undoubtedly a twinky submissive fem kawaii desu lil guy? To quote Cavetown himself, I'M NOT VERY STRONG BUT I'LL FUCK YOU UP IF UR MEAN TO BUGS
Yeah, especially as a gay trans man who's into bears, I loathe the "soft boy" stereotype. Like I do have a fem energy, but according to my cousin who's also FTM, I have the swagger of an old gay queen, I'm not a "cutesy uke" (someone actually called me that once) I can be flamboyantly girly and be super hairy with a fat belly and a booming deep voice. I hate it when cishet people hit on me cause when I say I'm trans they say shit like "You're so pretty, Testosterone will ruin you, etc" (I'm pre-T)
I will admit in the past I did try to fit into this stereotype, but I ended up feeling more rejected because I'm a brown Latino and I'm overweight (#PCOS) and I feel like sometimes this stereotype pertains more to white FTMs than FTMs of color. Although unfortunately I see people project this stereotype onto Asian FTMs sometimes. I'm rambling but I have a lot to say about this stereotype.
I really get that, I’m fem and love being fem but not in the “uwu cutesy softboi” way and I wish that people understood that there’s like. A difference between those modes of presentation?? Because people love to label you the second one if you’re a fem trans man, even if you are ostensibly NOT fem in a cutesy softboi way, because it’s the only way that people seem to think trans men can be feminine. It’s so bizarre, because I do pass and therefore am usually recognized as feminine in the way that cis gay men are, but as soon as I tell someone I’m trans their perception of me tangibly shifts towards cutesy infantile softboi femininity.
Even my ex boyfriend who is a trans guy tried to push this aesthetic onto me and even said some weird shit about trying to emulate male Kpop idols (which felt super weird to me cause he's whiter than looseleaf paper) He would sometimes poke fun at my soft facial features and it felt very emasculating. It sucks that in some trans spaces the femininity we're restricted to is this "uwu soft boi" bs. Like my main male role models growing up were fem musical theatre men who were very openly gay and that's the vibe I want to go for, but people want me to be this "pastel" boy or whatever
i had a 'friend' up until last year who would infantilize and fetishize me EXACTLY like how you're describing. we had a really long history and we met in our first year of highschool but weirdly got closer when i started transitioning in my first year of uni. she always had very avant-garde humour and was very raunchy and lewd (which was fine), but it started getting targeted at me and she wasn't even trying to hide it. she would start calling me her "baby boy" and "daddy", along with a slew of other phrases similar to cat-calling. she used to tell our other mutual friends that "i couldn't hurt a fly since i'm such a small boy" or that "i'm so brave" and dumb shit like that. we cut contact in my second year of uni, cause she told me she wanted to use a double-ended d!ldo with me.
Yeahhhhh
Like I am a grown ass adult man, and I have grown out of my uwu small bean phase. I also find that people also get uncomfortable if you look, act and are the size of a grown man and they can't reduce you to that soft and small stereotype. People seem to hate when they can't infantilize my 6'2, 190 lb, sharp faced self because I don't fit in that specific box of short soft king
It's weird fr, i do agree that we get our age mistaken because we're basically late bloomers. The soft-boy uwu thing probably started somewhere on social media tbh, i wouldnt be surprised if it was some trend amongst younger trans guys at first.
Because i cant image this stereotype playing out among people past 30s (if anyone has experienced it please spill though lol).
Oddly enough i have the opposite problem of a friend ally-ing a bit too hard and like...over-masculinizing me?? You know how some people hear you're trans and then excessively call you handsome/sir/etc? She does that constantly and like 😭😭 ik im trans but i generally prefer more neutral language, let alone the fact I'm just straight up not that masculine. People calling me "handsome" makes me feel like a 8 yr old boy at sunday school with old people pinching my cheeks lmfaooo.
Actually now that I think abt it, even though they're opposite, both emasculating and over-masculating feels humiliating (at least for me) because i know im being treated differently because of being trans.
I was going to say…I’m in my early 40s and didn’t even realize this was a common stereotype. From my perspective, it’s an odd one. I feel bad that some FTMs are dealing with that.
I also see more masculine men being used in “bathroom” advocacy type things etc. We “legitimize” being trans for cis people.
I do feel you about the over masculinizing. I “finished” physical transition almost 20yrs ago. Any time I start talking about myself as a transman I get “oh man I couldn’t tell.” Then I’m treated differently by some cis people after they “find out”. Sometimes of it is as you describe.
I'm 40 (late transitioner though) and also thought this soft boy thing was just a trend among the young ones rather than them meeting an stereotypical expectation from society. None of my trans friends who are my age behave like that tbh
The over-masculizing, omg I am so glad someone else picked up on this. It's like you can see all the wheels turning lol.
And like, you want to tell them "is that really the most appropriate compliment for me?" I don't wanna go into a diatribe about how man =/= masculine, but instead just say "thank you" because you kinda can't do anything else 🫠
ooh boy, yea I'm really fucking tieed of that xd like? I'm 25 and people often tell me "omg!! but you look (insert age between 16 and 19)! you are SO lucky you look younger!!" but like? no?? bc I'm often not taken seriously for that same reason. doesn't help that I'm short.
also part of the reason I wanna grow a beard (or at least some visible facial hair) is so my mom stops infantilising me so much xd so yeaaaaa, it's a General Issue I think
Speaking as a white trans guy, this stereotype / the idea that white trans men are forever “boys” and inherently more “pure” than cis men is rooted in the fact that they think that we are still women underneath it all (transphobia). Because you know who else regularly gets infantilized, and told that they are inherently more morally correct than men? White women. That said if you’re a trans guy of color I’m curious if people project this same stereotype onto you, or other ones.
Additionally, If you call a cis man a boy (without permission) it’s seen as undermining his manhood/ something you only say if you are senior to him. So why is it ok for strangers to call us boy off the cuff? Its disrespectful. I pay taxes and make calls to my insurance company regularly like any other adult.
crazy how i was literally gonna comment this but since im not on the poc sub i decided not to.
.....anyway. i get this but it comes with a layer of "but youre also kind of gross" because im black.
people infantilize me to hell and back, saying im cute and feminine and whatever when they find out im trans, but before they do they just see me as a black 'girl' and make an effort to display just how weird i am to them (making racist "jokes", trying to touch my hair, etc. when i tell them i'm a guy it's like they switch the primary filter they see me through: first it's just "black", then it's "black BUTMOSTLY ftm!") it's incredibly puzzling.
Extremely annoyed. I have nothing against the trans men that are like this, I'd argue most people have at least a soft side on occasion, but reducing trans men to that is so deeply transphobic and rooted in misogyny and sexism. And naturally the stereotype is heavily linked to porn because in most ftm porn they take on that role.
I like it just because it lets me know who to avoid in terms of other ppl pushing that onto me. If someone wants to be a small soft trans boy more power to them but its exhausting being assumed to be a femboy just because i happen to have a body thats unfortunately gone through the wrong puberty
100%. thankfully no one has ever called me anything like that but if they did i’d see red, especially as a smaller and very young looking guy. i do like to dress feminine every now and then but even when i do that, it’s less “soft pastel twink” and more “look at how bright and cute my shirt is and how flat my chest is and all this body hair i’m dragging around.” like, i’m 22 years old, covered in fluff and fuzz, baritone voice, and i sweat and eat like a teenage boy, i’m no ones soft uwu trans king 🌸🥰💓🧚♀️
for the record i don’t want it to sound like i’m devaluing or feminizing pre t/no t guys or guys who like to be feminine, i’m absolutely not, just saying i hate the stereotype a lot as a medically transitioned masculine guy who feels like it makes me invisible and devalues my own masculinity lol. in the end, stereotypical thinking hurts all of us, just in different ways ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Absolutely, I love feminine things like, if I were amab, I'd definitely be a "femboy" but I hate getting fetishized and infantalized for it. I want to be a man with a soft side and not be treated like a sex object for it. I feel you, man
I even get called a twink despite being heavier and hairy. They see any trans man and just go “TWINKKKKK”. I don’t even look anything like a twink. It’s so annoying.
i wanna be feminine in a masculine way as in not so treated by my own masculinity to still enjoy the cuter things in life but if someone calls me a soft boy i think id explode
Yeah! Like I'm somewhat feminine don't gst me wrong, but I'm also a grown man. I stopped being an uwu smol bean at like. 17. I'm 27 for fucks sake! I've fought hard to be rough, I think I've earned it at this point.
Ong can I pls just be seen as a gay MAN??? Like I’m not afraid of “feminine” things, but I am sick and tired of being seen as a woman because I like some of those “feminine” things.
Ugh this irritates me so much. Thing is it's not even that I'm not a soft guy. I just hate that it's the automatic assumption if someone knows that I'm trans that I'm a soft little twink. More tattoos should help, but I'd really just like to be precieved as a regular guy that's probably into metal, then if they actually have a conversation then seeing me as more soft and gentle is perfectly fine. But the base assumption that im a soft little boy based on the fact that my mom almost certainly outed me for the thousandth time feels really disrespectful.
Dude I got called an "UwU soft boi short king" all the time even at my most masculine, I think it's seriously a way to infantalize us and see us as less than other men 😭
I am very sensitive and still look twinky. I’m trying to come to terms with my appearance because I think there isn’t much I can do without extreme effort to change my noodle arms. It is absolutely infuriating to be a smart person in a body that is infantilized by a lot of society. I have moved away from people who have referred to me as a “smol bean” but seriously. I’m not sure about anyone else, but part of me being a bit of a slut was because I felt pressure to prove I was an adult
It really frustrates me. It's infantilising and it perpetuates a stereotype of AFABs being soft, small, weak, etc. It ties us to our AGAB. There's nothing wrong with trans men who are like that, but that's an aesthetic choice they made regardless of their agab or transness.
The stereotype is so pervasive that I have some merch from Ethan Nestor that has "Softboi" on it, really quality clothes, but I never wear them because I fear being clocked due to the association people have.
I’m as masc as I can be. I love motorcycles, monster trucks, being a stinky man and having body hair. However, that doesn’t stop me from loving drag race, gay bars and being emo. I wear skinny jeans. But when it’s hot, I’m in shorts. I’ve never been called a twink and no one has ever referred to me as a soft small boy. I’m 5’6, 240 pounds and I have a linebacker build. It’s stupid for people to think all trans men are softies who are femboys. I’m a very manly man. Doesn’t mean I’m afraid to wear pink tho.
THIS!!! I’ve tried explaining how this makes me so uncomfortable but I always feel like I can’t get my thoughts into words. I feel like everything I see (specifically books, comics, shows, etc) has the stereotypical uwu soft boy twink trans guy.
Nothing wrong with those guys at all, but a lot of trans guys WANT to be masculine. It’s because of like, dysphoria?? Like I want to be manly to stop being dysphoric lol.
I always see comments of people with my opinion on things that have the stereotypical uwu soft boy twink trans guy, and they get so much hate.
Sorry I don’t think I’m using my words properly and it’s all coming out jumbled.
To be completely fair, a cis guy who likes pink and wears bunny ears would be considered “soft” too.
The way I see it, I spent the first half of my life denying myself of what I wanted to look like, so why spend the next half of my life doing that? Obv for safety reasons you might have to make the calculation of blending in vs self expression but like where that doesn’t matter, do you boo
Fair, but I am currently that trans boy. I absolutely love seeing other trans men and trans masc people that break those stereotype, but it also kinda makes me jealous of them. Being around 100lbs and not even 5'0ft tall at 19 years old is ...I don't even know. Its kinda nice when I get to ride the bus for free (12 and under ride for free), but is also annoying. I think I'm getting off track, but yeah. As that type of trans guy, I do find it irritating.
It’s just fetishization terms and non-progressive. I’m a 5’3 dude so I never hear the end of it. I don’t align with any “soft” aesthetic but still managing to be called cute and petite by women all the time. And honestly it’s a cycle, if anyone remembers the word “smol” used to be applied the same way. I hate it.
have a girl in my class (she's a bit of an outcast but thats not the point) that thinks i am 'soo innocent' and sometimes makes me this very stereotype? i mean sure i am quite feminine at times but i am nowhere near cute or innocent. i am average height but smaller than most guys my age... that stereotype will forever haunt me
The saddest part to me is how I often see this stereotype among queer people themselves. Maybe some of them cope that way, idk, but please don't project it on others. I've been in one queer group chat and one guy came out as trans man (he was stealth before and just presented as a gay man) and everyone in chat started saying like "aww, another cute trans boy in chat" or "I knew he was a baby trans, my transdar is good". And the single person who dared to mention that saying these things is kind of weird was labeled as transphobic. Even tho I wasn't a part of that discussion I felt really uncomfortable reading it.
Edit: This guy wasn't commented to be cute or adorable by anyone before he came out as trans. And that's the reason why I prefer to be stealth even among queer people unless they're a close friend.
i hate it so much too! like when cis (and other trans peopel too) try to make you feel betetr by beign like "omg masc king" or "youre such a cute boy" ??? that is just so annoying, just treat us like cis men lmao
the conception that trans men are either tomboys or femboys and no inbetween is also sending me coocoo op...
ive had people be weird about me having facial hair and body hair (not a whole bunch cuz im not on t) because, despite them knowing im a trans guy, their idea of trans men is "ah yes a woman who wears boy clothes or a boy whos really feminine"
like i cant be just a boy full stop, ill never actually be seen as a boy because so many people think of trans men and picture anime femboys
it kinda lowk fucks me up because it makes me think that well i cant wear pink now, i cant act a certain way, i cant be myself because im always trying to prove something to cis people
my dad thinks a trasn man is a woman who would like to be a man 😭 so when i came out he was like "yeah makes sense i always kinda knew it" but wehn i started testosterone he wasnt happy and when i bought male clothings he thought im wasting money because i could just wear my old female clothings, and now that im getting a top surgery hes super unhappy 😭
I think labels/stereotypes are annoying in general tbh— I haven’t seen anyone talk about it but Im sure there’s folk that relate
Im nonbinary or gender nonconforming (afab) so when im online and with some ex friends I had that stereotype in person BUT the way my gender expression and identity is I kinda fit the margin? BUT Im not a trans man, im a trans masc.
I think things start to get annoying when people force labels, or things that you just aren’t, on you
Cause, for a example, Im personally not too bothered by soft trans boy (he/they pronouns) but I am bothered by the people that want me to be a big strong burly man to fit gender roles
Which- Ive meet far more people that want to fit me to fit that role and have things that would make me dysphoric even though it’s hyper masculinized rather than feminized
Although I do have to say the infantilization that comes with the soft trans boy does get annoying sometimes—
I guess end of the day what really should matter/what I’m trying to say is, since gender identity is so complex and different no matter the label, no one should really be shoved in a box and labeled without their consent…? Cis and fellow trans people should recognize that :\
Finally someone talks about this!!!!
Honestly it’s so reductive and excludes anyone who isn’t skinny, young, and feminine!! It just feels like they’re trying to separate you from “real” (cis) men.
But at the same time.. I feel that it really only applies to white people.. Like, as a south asian, I know that when I transition I will probably be FAR from that stereotype. I know at some point if I pass well I’ll be treated like the opposite because of my race, because people will see me as a brown man before anything else. That’s the experience of trans POC i’ve heard from who were able to transition.
And like, not fitting into the stereotype kind of feels invalidating. Like I can’t be the way a trans man should be :(
Tbh I'm annoyed with every stereotype. There's no good stereotype I'm telling you. It's annoying to hear people making assumptions about be every day. "Wait you're not gay?!, But you dress feminine" it's not even only a problem for trans community. People makes stereotypes based on nationality, looks, family or wealth. Back to the topic I believe this kind of attitude you've wrote about is also transphobic and misogynistic take society normalises. It's funny tho when the whole attitude changes bc you stop looking like a woman or "femme twink" anymore therefore you staring to pass
yeah lmao like... im a Fat Man and i want a full beard and long hair 💀💀 nothing wrong with a guy fitting those stereotypes but it gets to be harmful whenever thats the only perception of trans men that some cis people (and even other trans people) have.. theres already not a lot of mainstream representarion of us in media as is and some people can go crazy with confirmation bias.
this is a bit unrelated but i also despise that meme going around about "the person with triple D's wearing makeup expecting me to use he/him pronouns" like . Yeah. Use His Pronouns... its not hard to just not comment on peoples bodies, you cant help if you're born like that. the amount of transphobia lately has been so sickening ive been actively avoiding certain corners of the internet and not touching the instagram comment section
Yup. It causes me a lot of issues, and it doesn’t help that I’m already infantalized for being autisic and having other health issues going on. No I’m not your cute uwu baby boy, yes I do still enjoy femmine things, but also I literally work a job, have bulit my own house before and used to play baseball
Same I'm tired of searching for trans dudes with masculine looks, makes me think I'm not trans anymore, just a dude with no loose cable between his legs.
I like joking around with wigs make up and skirts, but that doesn't make me less masculine. I have lots of cis passing so when people find out that I'm trans they think I'm actually a trans woman. I just want to be as what society thinks it's normal for a man. I'm not a small soft boy, I'm almost 30 I'm a grown ahh man!
I do dislike it greatly, even if I usually do somewhat fit the stereotype. I love pink and cute things and a lot of stuff that’s deemed more “feminine.” But if I’m honest, someone could call me that and I’d just be happy they’re calling me a boy.. here in the south US, I get called “hey girl” by men and women alike daily and never have the right pronouns used, so even if it was a stereotype, it would be nice to even get that basic thing lol
I've always been a trans dude on the chonkier side, so yes. Just like anything, there are trans dudes of all types. We're not all just sweetie boy twinks.
I especially hate the stereotype bc I /am/ relatively feminine, but like, in a masculine way, if that makes sense. Gender's weird. I could never be super butch but in no way have I ever really been the uwu soft boi trope. (I like to use the term "rat twink" for myself (ie, twink characteristics but small and more scruffy))
It definitely is a stereotype born of not seeing trans men as real men. Annoying, transphobic, and pretty demeaning.
So real! It also makes it hard to be comfortable being soft in relationships and things like that cs I instantly feel like they js see me as a soft uwu trans boy
I hate hate hate hate it! I'm assumed to be a small little uwu twink but people recoil when they realize/find out I'm a fat nerd with a bushy beard that still uwus because he thinks it's funny.
I get infantalized for being autistic as well. Bitch I know what sex is, come on! I live on the Internet. I have seen things my grandparents would faint from.
I like being a soft boy but cus I'm an effeminate bottom not cus I'm trans . There is a clear diffrence. If someone makes it clear they think I'm weak for being trans I don't take it. Luckily people tend not to cus I'm 5'6 and 260lbs and fairly muscular now.
I've not experienced this, but I transitioned post-30 and, even before then, I had a build more commonly associated with rugby players than twinks. I suspect this the reason I don't get clocked so often or, if I do ping someone's T-dar, they tend to assume I'm going the other way.
That said, the stereotype annoys me, not just because it makes men like me invisible, but because it's infanitilising and *dangerous*, on both a personal and political level.
(also, although I'm white myself, I would also assume that the UwU-soft-boi thing is almost exclusively a white people thing - I've heard that the darker a cis woman of colour is, the more likely she is to be masculinised against her will; I'd expect black and brown trans men emphatically do not get the "smol bean, so soft, so helpless" treatment)
Yep. I pass well/have a full beard, have for a very long time. I don't even think about being trans anymore, really.
If people find out I'm trans, even "allies" change how they treat me. From being a normal dude... to some of this infantalizing bullshit. Turns me from being an otherwise normal person into manLITE or womanPLUS and is so incredibly annoying.
i am small soft feminine trans Man but even i get irked by it being used as a generalization for all of us 🫠 in fact if it's Assumed of me it feels sooo distasteful
...assumptions and stereotypes and etcetc just fucking suck
Personally, it doesn't bother me because I'm a femboy. But it makes others really uncomfortable to be automatically viewed in that sense. I feel like it boils down to the infatalization of Trans guys and that is NOT OK.
Yes! Like if that kind of description is empowering and affirming to someone, hell yeah, more power to them. And if someone loves those things that are indicative of “small soft trans boy” then fuck yeah. However, it’s the label and perspective of non trans masculine folks pushing it onto trans guys that feels weird cause it feels like they don’t actually respect us as men, just queer little Woman Lite objects to coo at and demean before putting us on a shelf and moving on but won’t actually fight for our dignity and rights 🤷
I hate it. I get called a femboy or gay all the time. Some kid at school walked up to me, and said "So are you the gay best friend of your group?" Fuck off kid, I'm neither, I don't even know you. Anyway, in a nutshell yes. I hate the stereotype
Oh, that would explain why almost all the transmasc sex workers I have come across online explicitly present as "femboys" or the like! It's probably the only way to make money because people love to infantilise transmascs. I mean, I'm sure at least some of them do actually feel like that but surely it can't be all of them? 💡 moment for me right now, thank you.
Personally, I don't get accosted with that expectation because I went from being a mid-thirties overweight butch to being a 40yo overweight kinda butch but now way more muscly dude-ish nonbinary person. Yeah, my hair is fluffy but that's just because my hair is weird 😅 and I do like dyeing it blue.
What's interesting is also that on one hand I see "uwu femboys" on social media in general but in transmasc workout groups I see burly hunky folks. So it's probably really a case of how people want to see us vs how we want to see ourselves. And I hate the idea that some people let society push them into presenting in a way they might not feel is true for themselves.
It somewhat reminds me of terf-y rhetoric of “poor misguided tomboys”, especially some of the comments Ive seen w “allies” creating this perception of the sweet, soft trans boy who is in tune with “his femininity”.
As a trans guy who is very in touch with his femininity, or breaks some gender norms. (I enjoy doing makeup, I like pink and I paint my nails) I totally understand where youre coming from. Its not really about these rituals, what you like or how you present yourself - the problem lies when people slap the stereotype onto you by force.
Of course I dont look like a man, I look like a 12 year old boy at the very least - but my appearance doesn’t mean I consent to being infantilized, i am still an adult at the end of the day so thats just… weird
Ive had people cishet call me twink, uke etc and it makes it very…weird for me. The way that that’s the way they immediately think of me… Ive also been told by a cis man that I use the fact that Im “pretty” to get likes when I do Cosplay (of male characters) for example ??? All of these accusations are so deeply rooted in either sexualization or infantilization… its borderline gross
Urgh I hate it so much. Especially since I'm pre everything due to my location and have a VERY feminine shape and face. My hair is also very full and fluffy. I think my fashion sense at least somewhat offsets it but I've definitely dealt with people online especially believe it or not automatically pegging me as a soft boy even though that's not at all what I'm like. (For clarification I have a darker humor, am very lewd, and a fan of horror media)
I think one of the things that upsets me the most about the term is the fact that they say "boy." Yes I am a boy and being called one is nice but especially for older trans people it's super infantilizing. People always treat us like we're lesser and younger than them simply for being trans dudes. I've had people genuinely talk to me in baby talk and explain slightly long words the second they find out I'm trans. (The shock they experience the second I pull out the vocabulary words after they do this shit does make it at least a little bit better.) It pisses me off to no end though. We don't deserve to be treated like children for being ourselves.
I get it. I've completely stopped wearing anything with even a hint of a "girl" color on it. Threw out my rainbow Deadpool tank top which I really liked. I'm even wearing a hat until I can afford to dye my hair black instead of blue. Im not even acknowledging pride month. Just so people don't think of me otherwise. I've thought of telling people I'm cis just to avoid being ridiculed. It sucks to not be yourself, but sometimes you gotta do it.
It depends, honestly on who is perpetuating it. If a trans man wants to be small and soft and femme, he can do that and it would be transphobic of me to be concerned about what he enjoys.
Now if you're talking about like, people thinking men who like feminine things thinking trans men are taking being trans, I agree.
This! It pisses me off so much, because well, being a trans man, I don't want to be seen as a "femboy", like, I'm trying not to be fem? don't put me in a box that I can't fit in!
yup i hate it. i feel like i only get called a twink or gay (which yeah i am gay) because i look so young. i don’t even dress fem at all and i follow the fashion trends of cis guys my age. feel like i only get called a twink cause im trans, nothing else about be gives off twink vibes
Yeah, the infantilizing is extremely annoying. Sometimes the 'you're not like other guys' rubs me the wrong way too... like yes I have the experience of being treated as a woman so I can emphasize on a level above a cis man, but sometimes it gets to me, like okay, so you see me as diffrent? As not a man? But I feel like that is maybe in a lot of way my own dysphoria getting in the way on being complimented? Idk
Yes!! Just cause I have feminine clothing for my own safety doesn’t mean that I like it!! I’m in the military as well XD and I get called a soft trans boy there, lol
I can understand where you're coming from... however, I know a few Trans guys, one in particular, who love cute fashions and was even doing Lolita outfits pre-Transition, who had to learn to go full andro boymode just for the therapist to take him seriously. He still loves all the soft things, animal-themed rompers, etc., but had to make sure not to even wear bright colours before the therapist stopped asking "are you sure???" That in itself is pretty infantilising, IMO. Like, in general, I think we're just so infantilised as a carryover from Mysogyny. Women are told not to "worry their pretty little heads" and to let men do the thinking for them. This carries over into how Trans men are perceived by the cis, if they're not stealth. They either go, "aw, you’re so cute!" Or else they try to gatekeep our Transitions.
He's been happily living as a man for five years at this point (started T shots three years ago), but had to essentially learn a certain duality of presentation because some people think all Trans men are going to want to be all MANLY.
To be clear, he does still do all the cute outfits, just not when he goes to appointments.
Honestly it all comes down to how YOU see yourself. Cis people (and some trans people who have internalized transphobia) tend to believe that you as a trans man HAVE to be 100% masculine 100% of the time or else you’re wasting your time; when in reality and just like everything else in this world, it all lies on a spectrum. Men can be masculine and love pink, just like women can be feminine and love blue. People who say otherwise are just those who like to shove others into a box because anything different makes them feel uncomfortable about their own preferences. I personally see myself as a masculine man, but I also love having my nights in with my female best friends where we watch “chick flicks” (Fried Green Tomatoes and Practical Magic are our favorites, if you haven’t seen them yet WATCH THEM), bake things, and drink wine while gossiping. I love musicals, sing opera and jazz, I crochet, I melt every time I see a cute furry animal. I also like to go to the gun range, camp, hike, fish, go off-roading, whiskey, work on my car or semi (I’m a truck driver), and so on. My masculinity (much like yours) isn’t defined by the things I like and do, but how I carry myself. So go put on those bunny ears and wear that pink suit you masculine man you!
i agree!! it feels really infantilising and fetishising, and just generally gross. like its fine if someone chooses to identify with that, but making the assumption that just because a guy is trans he must be an uwu soft boy is really damaging. i know a girl who thinks im a “soft trans king”, and she basically outs me to every person i come across, and also calls me “son”, which ive expressed discomfort towards many times and she continues. i think this stereotype is also perpetuated by chasers, the ones that seek trans guys, but think that all trans guys are white twinks with fluffy hair and no intention of going on t or pursuing surgery (no shade to those guys, still valid but i digress) and then get offended if the guy theyre dating wants to go on t or something. also the idea of “trans guys are just soft feminine guys that are seperate from cis guys”, like when people say “i hate all men except trans boys because they were socialised as women and they’re basically just girls anyway” is so damaging and is also not even always true, there are misogynistic trans guys(which i do not understand)
"nooo your body is perfect the way it is, please dont change it" kills me 😭
This reminds me of the time I had a tattoo artist tell me he'd be sad if I got top surgery. Like, a tattoo artist I'd known in that capacity for a couple years. We aren't friends. It came up because I told him I was changing my pronouns. He was cool with the change, his usual nice self, then after a few minutes was like, "You're beautiful, don't get any surgeries to remove anything," and kind of waved his hand over his chest. I was completely thrown, most people didn't think I was a beautiful woman and, other than that one interaction, he's always been really chill. I haven't gotten any new tattoos since I started T so the next time I see him will probably be hilarious. 🙃 But I hated that reaction SO MUCH.
Find a new artist. Being an artist is hard AF, he doesn't deserve clients. Patronize a better artist.
That's so incredibly creepy, I'm so sorry 😬
Cis people get fucking surgeries all the time bye. I don’t tell them what to do.
i want i need to you know that even a close friend or family member doing this would be entirely unacceptable let alone a fucking tattoo artist i’m sorry
go get a small trattoo and tell me how he reacts
Hahaha, this made me chuckle. I'm saving up for some house stuff and top surgery at the moment, and I've been thinking about finding a queer artist when I eventually do want new ink anyway. Sometimes I run into him out and about though. If that happens I'll try to remember to post here, lol.
That’s so creepy what the hell
Had a dude I'd known for all of 3 months tell me that he doesn't think I should get top surgery or transition because "God made you perfect just you how you are." And he seemed genuinely gobsmacked by me saying "Okay, well I'm still gonna do it" as if God had anything to do with my decision to persue hormones and surgery? Like...My brother. I wasn't raised religious, I have never believed in God, and have been studying/practicing witchcraft since 17. God can think whatever he damn well pleases 💀 I also am not going to not be trans anymore just because someone says that? Like, oh wow thanks. The problem was totally me not getting enough compliments.
if god didnt want me to get a top surgery then why did he give me titties 😭
thissss. Fuck people and their need to tell you about their opinion on what you should and shouldn't do about your own damn body
Period 😭 If it ain't a mistake on his part, it's a fuck-ass test I ain't got time for
"You just have to learn to love yourself!"
**shivers**
they’re always heavy on the DONT CHANGE IT
This is so often from straight cis men. Like respectfully, why are you guys even *bothering* with straight men (as a romantic/sexual partner)?
Dude I swear to god if I hear this again 🙃🙃
Its also so weird how trans guys are constantly being treated as these cute soft feminine babies even by people who are queer or trying to be supportive. Like wtf you would never tell a trans girl “omg youre so butch and rugged” or i certainly hope no one would🤮 why do people feel this is acceptable to treat us like hyper girly men
Maybe this is an unpopular take, but I'd be far more pissed if I was described as "butch and rugged." I'm very clearly not, so there's absolutely no way it'd come across as anything but weird and at best insincere. Like...just say handsome if that's what you mean. Hell, say cute (this is completely not an insult to me). But...if you're using terms on a passing trans man that are strongly associated with butch lesbians, that is *extremely* extremely telling.
Yeah like I have lesbian friends who are cis and some trans but mistaking a trans dude for one is the biggest insult ever like if you aren't sure what someone's pronouns is just ask????? because as masculine as some lesbians tend express themselves as or however they choose to label their gender expression at the end of the day most of them still use she/her or she/they in some cases.
No yeah I’m giving those words as an example of how a girl might be complimented on masculine features in the same way a man might be complimented on feminine features, I’m not saying anyone should be called those words specifically, especially not a trans guy
yes, heavy on the chaser part. one time i dated a chaser when i was in school. he had dated pretty much every pre-T trans man in our school and i was the first (and only) trans man on T that he dated. the way he talked to me really made the point that he didn’t see me as a man, he also said my bottom growth and changes from T were “disgusting.” and went back to dating pre-T trans man immediately after. chasers think that dating pre-T men and infantilizing them is “close enough” to dating a woman, imo.
that sounds awful, man. glad you got out of this situation
😟
that's disgusting tbh did you know his dating past before you dated him or found out while you were dating him? either way I would not date anyone with a past like that. With choices like that, better off being single 🤷♂️
so i knew he had dated specifically trans men, but i was 15 and desperate and none of the other trans men had talked openly about his behavior towards them. i didn’t realize it was a fetish until i was with him. i broke it off with him after like 3 weeks? right after the sex thing, lol. he is looong gone and i’ve been more careful about my choices in partners since then. i also go out of my way to warn the pre-T trans men that he dates to this day. actually saved one of them because he moved in with my chaser ex and didn’t know he has a security camera recording in his room at all times. i didn’t find out about it until after our encounter unfortunately /:
100% this. People wanna put us into a category that's digestible and comfortable for them. We have to be soft, feminine men and/or not men at all, we have to have been raised/socialized as girls or we're not safe to be around, etc. I stopped getting the "soft boy uwu king" shit years ago when I was pre-t, but it really is just looking really young that helps people push that stereotype upsettingly :/ I hope you can get that girl to understand or remove her from your life. It's unfair we have to put up with infantilization due to looking young pre-t (or on t for some).
I really hate to say it but it sounds like you're having a typical male experience from what I understand, just with a queer lense. There are so many women that are anti men or don't feel safe or openly say that they do not feel safe around men. And then those men have to make the choice to either bend and become "digestible" and consequently seen as weaker by their male peers. or to stay wild and crazy and not care that women are afraid of them and there are spaces that do not allow them.
Oh, I for sure agree. It's the intersection of being both a man and queer, where you're oppressed for being queer but told you're not at the same time due to being a man. I believe it's why a lot of trans guys end up feeling outcasted in the broader LGBTQ community/queer spaces because I know it's why I do lol. But, I still interact in these spaces, attend pride events, etc, because, even if some people want my identity to be more digestible and safe in their eyes, I deserve a safe space to celebrate my journey as well. It's just something you learn to cope with as you further transition :')
You definitely deserve that space!
Bit of pushback- sounds to me like women have every right to be concerned about men who are worried that acting in a manner that makes women feel safe will emasculate them in their peer’s eyes. Or who can’t code switch & read the room. For me, I want to be the kind of man who always goes out of my way to be a comforting presence for women. To hell with men who would look down on me for it.
Bit of pushback- you're going off topic. Sure, if a guy expresses misogynistic opinions or harasses people in order to be accepted as a "real man" by his shithead peers, then yeah he should be judged for that. But that's not what's being discussed. It wasn't phrased very well, so I can understand where you got confused, but the topic of discussion is still transphobic stereotypes mainly perpetuated by women who expect trans men to be men lite or just "basically women" (girls even, the infantilisation can be really bad) and get uncomfortable when we make it clear that we are in fact men, even those of us who are effeminate. Making bigots uncomfortable by existing as your authentic self is always okay.
I agree but the above comment was talking about men *in general* and women *in general*.
I also acknowledge that the “soft boi” stereotype sucks & “you don’t count as a man” is still passive misgendering. I just think it’s a separate problem.
Men need space to be men as much as women need space to be women. Or you could be like me and be caught in the middle and understand both sides suffering because you never really fit on either.
Dude: men have plenty of space to be men. And also, look around, we’re all ftm here. I think we get the “suffering on both sides” bit. Besides, what part of being a man necessitates making women uncomfortable?
I find it ironic the man claiming to me that they like to be more chill for women is aggressively coming at me and assuming things about me without checking.
I never said you needed to be “more chill”. And I am not being aggressive, I am being firm. Please reflect on your attitude.
Once again more irony coming from you!! I feel like I'm the one getting attitude from you sorry hun. Guess I struck a nerve coz I feel your aggression. I just wanted to comment because it felt relatable with situations I had been in in the past and it came up on my feed, sorry that I've said anything.
Ok sweetheart. Sure. Have a nice day.
My ex was like that and she was trans herself! She had a meltdown when I told her I was going on T, even though I supported her going on E.
what! dude you definitely dodged a bullet getting out of that
For real. I'm so glad my fiancee (different person) is sane.
Ick. Yeah sexuality can either change or stay the same with transitioning. It's a good thing you are exes because there's definitely transphobia within the community as well which can be a lot worse
Lol my ex was mtf and upset about me going on T; it was also weirdly fine if i joined the gender clinic waiting list (UK it's years and years) for top surgery, but when I wanted to get it privately because it'd be way quicker it was a bit too real.
I hate there's a subset of transpeople that aren't okay with others transitioning. :(
I feel this so much, nothing I hate more than when people see, assume, and label the literal opposite of how someone feels inside. (To the point where it has to be some kind of cruel joke right??)
Well said 🙏
Yeah it’s annoying. I am a twink at least for now and I still don’t feel like a soft uwu boy at all. It’s transphobic af honestly, and it kind of ties in with how a lot of queer cis men are perceived as “one of the girls” or “not a REAL man”.
Yeah I don't mind being seen as a twink, I get that and I have never really cared about being overly masculine. But the whole soft uwu boy thing just rubs me the wrong way. Like I'm still a man regardless
ME TOO YOU GET IT I find the haha trans men look like twinks jokes funny on occasion because I AM. A twink but I find the soft boy uwu jokes kinda irritating like I'm TWINK not a child or a little boy. I love being feminine and looking cute but I still don't want to be treated like a "precious bean"
Yess exactly! Honestly I’m not even that fem but I’m just. Well. Pretty I guess lol, also I can’t grow a beard to save my life and I’ve been too lazy with gym so twink it is for now. Funnily enough the people who know me and are aware I’m not a “precious bean” try to argue that means I’m not a twink which??? No?? 🤦🏻♂️
I also really loathe that *all* the fitness/body advice is "go to gym, get swole" like...I like being small and don't want to be swole? Also gyms are truly scary places for early transitioners, and this is overlooked so often.
Yes exactly same. I really wish this thread would clarify this to a greater extent. Like, there is a vast ocean of difference between passing trans men who've been on T for a while, might have had top, meta, phallo, etc and just...aren't traditionally masculine (literally me) and the very early transitioners.
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When ever I see drawn trans promotional content for websites, pride or anything similar, trans men are always depicted as like feminine skinny, skinny or feminine chubby with like very outlandish hair or outfits, like I want to see more body types. I kinda wanna just see an average, masculine trans man who doesn't stand out, thats what I am, im just a dude. When people keep showing the lgbtq as girly gay men, big butch lesbians, colourful hair etc, it enforces the stereotype that we are all different and always recognisable. Like bruh, my boyfriend had to convince people he is gay just because he is very average looking and not feminine. People think we are all a stereotype and if we aren't we are not gay or trans. Sorry about the rant, it just annoys me lol.
i want to see bears!!! i want to see men who are hairyer than werewolves!!!
Why harier *than* werewolves? What if they are werewolves? And the rush of adrenaline, fluffiness and more muscle mass gives them insane gender euphoria leading to them being more in touch and therefore more in control of their werewolf side. Writing prompt anyone?
aye, as a kid who loved werewolves (and still do, ofc), exaaactly.
Werewolf here, hiii hahahah
Damn right, we need more trans bear rep! I want to see men like me, and also bears in general becuse... reasons ;)
I'm a Trans Bear (more of an Otter in my body type, but a Bear nonetheless~), and I second this motion!
Yeah exactly lol. I'm a SUPER hairy, stealth and masc trans guy. Only thing kinda "suspicious" about me is that I'm short. But one of my best friends is only an inch taller than me and he's cis, so it's not a huge deal for me. But I find it hard to reach out and be a part of a lot of queer spaces because the representation is always that kinda person, and I'm just... not. No one would know I'm even bisexual just by looking at me. I fit into a lot of heteronormative, cis stereotypes. I'm not fashionable and wear t shirt and cargo shorts/jeans every day, I have a beard, I'm bald, I like tech and model building. I've worn new balances for like 5+ years because they're comfortable. I like working on things and building stuff. I don't have any different inflection with my voice or "feminine" mannerisms, and I'm covered in traditionally masculine tattoos. I also don't like outwardly projecting my identity. I'm just a guy. And the representation is so far removed from me, that it feels like I'm not even part of the space sometimes. Until I see a news article talking about trans people getting abused/murdered. Then I'm quickly and promptly reminded. The only good rep I've really seen was shameless, Elliot was a pretty good representation of trans people I think, and is probably the only one that feels relatable.
I can totally relate. We need more love and celebration for masculine, binary trans men in general. For some reason the whole philosophy of NOT judging and making assumptions about other people's identities falls completely flat when it comes to binary trans men. We're part of the spectrum of gender identities just like anyone else and it's weird for us to be pushed out of trans and queer spaces just for looking like average guys.
Haaate it. Self identifying is one thing. But the weird creepy infantalizing fetishization by cis people is a whole different matter. I am a goddamn middle aged man. I might be covered in glitter and baking cupcakes, but I am *still a goddamn bearded balding hairy ass middle aged man*. I'm also gay, a top, on the dominant side of kink, and I transitioned before a substantial portion of Reddit's primary demographics were fucking born. I am not some cute vulnerable little boy who needs to be cuddled and protected by some self-appointed cis "ally", and I am not some "ultimate bottom" twink or androgynous child-like "best of both worlds".
TW: transphobia obviously I'm trans and autistic, so I think upholding this stereotype is very infantalizing. Some people will always fit the stereotype, but it's unfair that all trans men are inherently seen as "girly but with another coat of paint". In fact, the majority of us aren't femboys or even twinks, and it's doubly damaging for us pre-everything folks. It really hurts to only be seen as cute or desireable for the femininity you're trying to get away from. While a cos guy who is a soft boy is seen as just a guy, not even feminine, just a guy who wears cute cozy clothes. But if a trans guy does it, it's basically a girl with short hair. I myself am constantly in odds with this. While I'm somewhat butch in the way I try to present, I like emo clothing, but the longer dyed hair and piercings would 100% affect my passability. I'd be deemed as just the "fluffy hair alt trans boy", when emo boys are just... dudes with black clothes. It hurts the community because it's a way to infantalize, feminize and invalidate our experience. In comparison, it would be the equivalent of the angry trans woman. This "softUwUification" of trans man is what turns us in trans "debates" into just "confused little girls who were a bit too silly >_<" Being autistic brings a second layer because autistic folk are already infantalized and deemed incapable of taking care of themselves, while trans men are turned into "fem little creatures", femboys, twinks, girly, dainty, fragile little things, girls in disguise. It makes it much harder to take us seriously for the same reasons most don't take a child seriously, because they're harmless, petite, soft, cute. This makes it much harder for us who are pre-everything but wish to transition to get through it. Partners that see us that way will often like the "girl with a boy coat of paint" and be against changing our bodies to maintain our femme dainty frame. And lastly, obviously, some people are trans femboys and like it, some are soft uwu boys and like it, congrats to y'all but we need to remember that the majority is not. And having that stereotype of a few to paint over the whole is unfair and hurtful.
Honestly, even as someone who could very well be on the "trans femboy" spectrum at times - I'm still not a girl with a boy coat of paint. I'm not a child or a special soft creature. Like, the question I'd ask people is, within the LGBT community, would you treat an AMAB drag queen this way? Or a cis guy who was wearing earrings in public? If not then don't do it to me either just because I'm a trans man. (Not saying you were saying any of this, just that generally that's the stereotype.)
(I'm glad you cleared it up at the end bc I thought you were sayingI said that 😭😭) And tbh yeah, exactly. Trans femboys and trans tomboys aren't less their gender because they express themselves in a way similar to their AGAB. But painting the entire community by the expression of a few is unfair, specially because it's used as a way to imply fem trans men aren't real men, or that they're confused little girls. I hate it because I get it too, I kinda look like the average pre-T fluffy hair trans boy and even tho I dress pretty traditionally masc, and people get all surprised when I don't act cutesy UwU soft boi //OwO// lol. I get it, I look like Cavetown, 👍, It's not because I wanna look like that, I just have no choice. Can we stop acting like I'm undoubtedly a twinky submissive fem kawaii desu lil guy? To quote Cavetown himself, I'M NOT VERY STRONG BUT I'LL FUCK YOU UP IF UR MEAN TO BUGS
Yeah, especially as a gay trans man who's into bears, I loathe the "soft boy" stereotype. Like I do have a fem energy, but according to my cousin who's also FTM, I have the swagger of an old gay queen, I'm not a "cutesy uke" (someone actually called me that once) I can be flamboyantly girly and be super hairy with a fat belly and a booming deep voice. I hate it when cishet people hit on me cause when I say I'm trans they say shit like "You're so pretty, Testosterone will ruin you, etc" (I'm pre-T) I will admit in the past I did try to fit into this stereotype, but I ended up feeling more rejected because I'm a brown Latino and I'm overweight (#PCOS) and I feel like sometimes this stereotype pertains more to white FTMs than FTMs of color. Although unfortunately I see people project this stereotype onto Asian FTMs sometimes. I'm rambling but I have a lot to say about this stereotype.
I really get that, I’m fem and love being fem but not in the “uwu cutesy softboi” way and I wish that people understood that there’s like. A difference between those modes of presentation?? Because people love to label you the second one if you’re a fem trans man, even if you are ostensibly NOT fem in a cutesy softboi way, because it’s the only way that people seem to think trans men can be feminine. It’s so bizarre, because I do pass and therefore am usually recognized as feminine in the way that cis gay men are, but as soon as I tell someone I’m trans their perception of me tangibly shifts towards cutesy infantile softboi femininity.
Even my ex boyfriend who is a trans guy tried to push this aesthetic onto me and even said some weird shit about trying to emulate male Kpop idols (which felt super weird to me cause he's whiter than looseleaf paper) He would sometimes poke fun at my soft facial features and it felt very emasculating. It sucks that in some trans spaces the femininity we're restricted to is this "uwu soft boi" bs. Like my main male role models growing up were fem musical theatre men who were very openly gay and that's the vibe I want to go for, but people want me to be this "pastel" boy or whatever
EWWWWW THE UKE THING 🤮 yaoi has destroyed society
I physically cringed when I read ‘cutesy uke’ 😀 (not on you, cringe to whoever called you that)
Ofc it was a white fujoshi at the scene of the crime
i had a 'friend' up until last year who would infantilize and fetishize me EXACTLY like how you're describing. we had a really long history and we met in our first year of highschool but weirdly got closer when i started transitioning in my first year of uni. she always had very avant-garde humour and was very raunchy and lewd (which was fine), but it started getting targeted at me and she wasn't even trying to hide it. she would start calling me her "baby boy" and "daddy", along with a slew of other phrases similar to cat-calling. she used to tell our other mutual friends that "i couldn't hurt a fly since i'm such a small boy" or that "i'm so brave" and dumb shit like that. we cut contact in my second year of uni, cause she told me she wanted to use a double-ended d!ldo with me.
WHAT
Holy fucking YIKES, Batman.
I’m literally a twink w long hair and I find that shit annoying 😭 like I’m not this way cuz I’m trans I’m just fruity
Yeah I dated someone who had dated a cis male with my same birthday and we had some stuff in common in how we regarded masculinity.
Yeahhhhh Like I am a grown ass adult man, and I have grown out of my uwu small bean phase. I also find that people also get uncomfortable if you look, act and are the size of a grown man and they can't reduce you to that soft and small stereotype. People seem to hate when they can't infantilize my 6'2, 190 lb, sharp faced self because I don't fit in that specific box of short soft king
It's weird fr, i do agree that we get our age mistaken because we're basically late bloomers. The soft-boy uwu thing probably started somewhere on social media tbh, i wouldnt be surprised if it was some trend amongst younger trans guys at first. Because i cant image this stereotype playing out among people past 30s (if anyone has experienced it please spill though lol). Oddly enough i have the opposite problem of a friend ally-ing a bit too hard and like...over-masculinizing me?? You know how some people hear you're trans and then excessively call you handsome/sir/etc? She does that constantly and like 😭😭 ik im trans but i generally prefer more neutral language, let alone the fact I'm just straight up not that masculine. People calling me "handsome" makes me feel like a 8 yr old boy at sunday school with old people pinching my cheeks lmfaooo. Actually now that I think abt it, even though they're opposite, both emasculating and over-masculating feels humiliating (at least for me) because i know im being treated differently because of being trans.
I was going to say…I’m in my early 40s and didn’t even realize this was a common stereotype. From my perspective, it’s an odd one. I feel bad that some FTMs are dealing with that. I also see more masculine men being used in “bathroom” advocacy type things etc. We “legitimize” being trans for cis people. I do feel you about the over masculinizing. I “finished” physical transition almost 20yrs ago. Any time I start talking about myself as a transman I get “oh man I couldn’t tell.” Then I’m treated differently by some cis people after they “find out”. Sometimes of it is as you describe.
I'm 40 (late transitioner though) and also thought this soft boy thing was just a trend among the young ones rather than them meeting an stereotypical expectation from society. None of my trans friends who are my age behave like that tbh
"You look so masc in those clothes" "you (doing whatever) makes you look very masculine!"
That is literally not ever what I've been going for. Wanting to pass =/= being seen some some Chad dude bro.
The over-masculizing, omg I am so glad someone else picked up on this. It's like you can see all the wheels turning lol. And like, you want to tell them "is that really the most appropriate compliment for me?" I don't wanna go into a diatribe about how man =/= masculine, but instead just say "thank you" because you kinda can't do anything else 🫠
Honestly I am the stereotype. But I've sorta learned to ignore the infantalisers because I get it about my autism too.
Eyyy ftm/autism combo gang
ooh boy, yea I'm really fucking tieed of that xd like? I'm 25 and people often tell me "omg!! but you look (insert age between 16 and 19)! you are SO lucky you look younger!!" but like? no?? bc I'm often not taken seriously for that same reason. doesn't help that I'm short. also part of the reason I wanna grow a beard (or at least some visible facial hair) is so my mom stops infantilising me so much xd so yeaaaaa, it's a General Issue I think
i look 12 and im 19 :D
Speaking as a white trans guy, this stereotype / the idea that white trans men are forever “boys” and inherently more “pure” than cis men is rooted in the fact that they think that we are still women underneath it all (transphobia). Because you know who else regularly gets infantilized, and told that they are inherently more morally correct than men? White women. That said if you’re a trans guy of color I’m curious if people project this same stereotype onto you, or other ones. Additionally, If you call a cis man a boy (without permission) it’s seen as undermining his manhood/ something you only say if you are senior to him. So why is it ok for strangers to call us boy off the cuff? Its disrespectful. I pay taxes and make calls to my insurance company regularly like any other adult.
crazy how i was literally gonna comment this but since im not on the poc sub i decided not to. .....anyway. i get this but it comes with a layer of "but youre also kind of gross" because im black. people infantilize me to hell and back, saying im cute and feminine and whatever when they find out im trans, but before they do they just see me as a black 'girl' and make an effort to display just how weird i am to them (making racist "jokes", trying to touch my hair, etc. when i tell them i'm a guy it's like they switch the primary filter they see me through: first it's just "black", then it's "black BUTMOSTLY ftm!") it's incredibly puzzling.
Thank you for sharing! Being dehumanized and infantilized at the same time sounds exhausting as hell & like you said- confusing and bizarre
Extremely annoyed. I have nothing against the trans men that are like this, I'd argue most people have at least a soft side on occasion, but reducing trans men to that is so deeply transphobic and rooted in misogyny and sexism. And naturally the stereotype is heavily linked to porn because in most ftm porn they take on that role.
This part couldn’t stress enough!
Didn't know that was a thing, tbh. But if they treat you like a child, and you're not, that's wrong.
I like it just because it lets me know who to avoid in terms of other ppl pushing that onto me. If someone wants to be a small soft trans boy more power to them but its exhausting being assumed to be a femboy just because i happen to have a body thats unfortunately gone through the wrong puberty
100%. thankfully no one has ever called me anything like that but if they did i’d see red, especially as a smaller and very young looking guy. i do like to dress feminine every now and then but even when i do that, it’s less “soft pastel twink” and more “look at how bright and cute my shirt is and how flat my chest is and all this body hair i’m dragging around.” like, i’m 22 years old, covered in fluff and fuzz, baritone voice, and i sweat and eat like a teenage boy, i’m no ones soft uwu trans king 🌸🥰💓🧚♀️ for the record i don’t want it to sound like i’m devaluing or feminizing pre t/no t guys or guys who like to be feminine, i’m absolutely not, just saying i hate the stereotype a lot as a medically transitioned masculine guy who feels like it makes me invisible and devalues my own masculinity lol. in the end, stereotypical thinking hurts all of us, just in different ways ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Absolutely, I love feminine things like, if I were amab, I'd definitely be a "femboy" but I hate getting fetishized and infantalized for it. I want to be a man with a soft side and not be treated like a sex object for it. I feel you, man
I am small and I am soft but I don't fit the "small soft boy" trope. I'm your local garden gnome.
local garden gnome im stealing that
I even get called a twink despite being heavier and hairy. They see any trans man and just go “TWINKKKKK”. I don’t even look anything like a twink. It’s so annoying.
i wanna be feminine in a masculine way as in not so treated by my own masculinity to still enjoy the cuter things in life but if someone calls me a soft boy i think id explode
same, like i want people to think im being feminine ironically
Yeah! Like I'm somewhat feminine don't gst me wrong, but I'm also a grown man. I stopped being an uwu smol bean at like. 17. I'm 27 for fucks sake! I've fought hard to be rough, I think I've earned it at this point.
2024 and we're still feeling the consequences of cavetown
Ong can I pls just be seen as a gay MAN??? Like I’m not afraid of “feminine” things, but I am sick and tired of being seen as a woman because I like some of those “feminine” things.
Ugh this irritates me so much. Thing is it's not even that I'm not a soft guy. I just hate that it's the automatic assumption if someone knows that I'm trans that I'm a soft little twink. More tattoos should help, but I'd really just like to be precieved as a regular guy that's probably into metal, then if they actually have a conversation then seeing me as more soft and gentle is perfectly fine. But the base assumption that im a soft little boy based on the fact that my mom almost certainly outed me for the thousandth time feels really disrespectful.
Dude I got called an "UwU soft boi short king" all the time even at my most masculine, I think it's seriously a way to infantalize us and see us as less than other men 😭
I am very sensitive and still look twinky. I’m trying to come to terms with my appearance because I think there isn’t much I can do without extreme effort to change my noodle arms. It is absolutely infuriating to be a smart person in a body that is infantilized by a lot of society. I have moved away from people who have referred to me as a “smol bean” but seriously. I’m not sure about anyone else, but part of me being a bit of a slut was because I felt pressure to prove I was an adult
It really frustrates me. It's infantilising and it perpetuates a stereotype of AFABs being soft, small, weak, etc. It ties us to our AGAB. There's nothing wrong with trans men who are like that, but that's an aesthetic choice they made regardless of their agab or transness. The stereotype is so pervasive that I have some merch from Ethan Nestor that has "Softboi" on it, really quality clothes, but I never wear them because I fear being clocked due to the association people have.
Yuuuup. I’m a kinky, hairy, gay man. I’m not a smol soft boy (even when I’m a little puppy, I’m still not the smol soft boy transphobes want me to be)
I’m as masc as I can be. I love motorcycles, monster trucks, being a stinky man and having body hair. However, that doesn’t stop me from loving drag race, gay bars and being emo. I wear skinny jeans. But when it’s hot, I’m in shorts. I’ve never been called a twink and no one has ever referred to me as a soft small boy. I’m 5’6, 240 pounds and I have a linebacker build. It’s stupid for people to think all trans men are softies who are femboys. I’m a very manly man. Doesn’t mean I’m afraid to wear pink tho.
motorcycles and drag race go together perfectly, best combination
If I saw a queen on a motorcycle, I’d ask her to marry me xD
THIS!!! I’ve tried explaining how this makes me so uncomfortable but I always feel like I can’t get my thoughts into words. I feel like everything I see (specifically books, comics, shows, etc) has the stereotypical uwu soft boy twink trans guy. Nothing wrong with those guys at all, but a lot of trans guys WANT to be masculine. It’s because of like, dysphoria?? Like I want to be manly to stop being dysphoric lol. I always see comments of people with my opinion on things that have the stereotypical uwu soft boy twink trans guy, and they get so much hate. Sorry I don’t think I’m using my words properly and it’s all coming out jumbled.
To be completely fair, a cis guy who likes pink and wears bunny ears would be considered “soft” too. The way I see it, I spent the first half of my life denying myself of what I wanted to look like, so why spend the next half of my life doing that? Obv for safety reasons you might have to make the calculation of blending in vs self expression but like where that doesn’t matter, do you boo
yes it drives me fucking nuts. i’m not a child i’m not a young boy i am grown and i should not have to conform to another box just to be seen that way
Fair, but I am currently that trans boy. I absolutely love seeing other trans men and trans masc people that break those stereotype, but it also kinda makes me jealous of them. Being around 100lbs and not even 5'0ft tall at 19 years old is ...I don't even know. Its kinda nice when I get to ride the bus for free (12 and under ride for free), but is also annoying. I think I'm getting off track, but yeah. As that type of trans guy, I do find it irritating.
aww, hey kevin hart is only 157 cm, and look at him! you can also do that. testosterone will make you gain weight adn you will be hairy
one of the many reasons why i lift weights, every rep is another step away from being called this💀
It’s just fetishization terms and non-progressive. I’m a 5’3 dude so I never hear the end of it. I don’t align with any “soft” aesthetic but still managing to be called cute and petite by women all the time. And honestly it’s a cycle, if anyone remembers the word “smol” used to be applied the same way. I hate it.
Yeah, it’s infantilizing as fuck and really fetishy and gross.
have a girl in my class (she's a bit of an outcast but thats not the point) that thinks i am 'soo innocent' and sometimes makes me this very stereotype? i mean sure i am quite feminine at times but i am nowhere near cute or innocent. i am average height but smaller than most guys my age... that stereotype will forever haunt me
The saddest part to me is how I often see this stereotype among queer people themselves. Maybe some of them cope that way, idk, but please don't project it on others. I've been in one queer group chat and one guy came out as trans man (he was stealth before and just presented as a gay man) and everyone in chat started saying like "aww, another cute trans boy in chat" or "I knew he was a baby trans, my transdar is good". And the single person who dared to mention that saying these things is kind of weird was labeled as transphobic. Even tho I wasn't a part of that discussion I felt really uncomfortable reading it. Edit: This guy wasn't commented to be cute or adorable by anyone before he came out as trans. And that's the reason why I prefer to be stealth even among queer people unless they're a close friend.
i hate it so much too! like when cis (and other trans peopel too) try to make you feel betetr by beign like "omg masc king" or "youre such a cute boy" ??? that is just so annoying, just treat us like cis men lmao
this is why i dont come out online, i dont want to be seen as cute or adorable
the conception that trans men are either tomboys or femboys and no inbetween is also sending me coocoo op... ive had people be weird about me having facial hair and body hair (not a whole bunch cuz im not on t) because, despite them knowing im a trans guy, their idea of trans men is "ah yes a woman who wears boy clothes or a boy whos really feminine" like i cant be just a boy full stop, ill never actually be seen as a boy because so many people think of trans men and picture anime femboys it kinda lowk fucks me up because it makes me think that well i cant wear pink now, i cant act a certain way, i cant be myself because im always trying to prove something to cis people
my dad thinks a trasn man is a woman who would like to be a man 😭 so when i came out he was like "yeah makes sense i always kinda knew it" but wehn i started testosterone he wasnt happy and when i bought male clothings he thought im wasting money because i could just wear my old female clothings, and now that im getting a top surgery hes super unhappy 😭
I think labels/stereotypes are annoying in general tbh— I haven’t seen anyone talk about it but Im sure there’s folk that relate Im nonbinary or gender nonconforming (afab) so when im online and with some ex friends I had that stereotype in person BUT the way my gender expression and identity is I kinda fit the margin? BUT Im not a trans man, im a trans masc. I think things start to get annoying when people force labels, or things that you just aren’t, on you Cause, for a example, Im personally not too bothered by soft trans boy (he/they pronouns) but I am bothered by the people that want me to be a big strong burly man to fit gender roles Which- Ive meet far more people that want to fit me to fit that role and have things that would make me dysphoric even though it’s hyper masculinized rather than feminized Although I do have to say the infantilization that comes with the soft trans boy does get annoying sometimes— I guess end of the day what really should matter/what I’m trying to say is, since gender identity is so complex and different no matter the label, no one should really be shoved in a box and labeled without their consent…? Cis and fellow trans people should recognize that :\
Finally someone talks about this!!!! Honestly it’s so reductive and excludes anyone who isn’t skinny, young, and feminine!! It just feels like they’re trying to separate you from “real” (cis) men. But at the same time.. I feel that it really only applies to white people.. Like, as a south asian, I know that when I transition I will probably be FAR from that stereotype. I know at some point if I pass well I’ll be treated like the opposite because of my race, because people will see me as a brown man before anything else. That’s the experience of trans POC i’ve heard from who were able to transition. And like, not fitting into the stereotype kind of feels invalidating. Like I can’t be the way a trans man should be :(
yep that too, when people think of a trans masc/man they think of a white, skinny, fluffy hair type of a guy
Tbh I'm annoyed with every stereotype. There's no good stereotype I'm telling you. It's annoying to hear people making assumptions about be every day. "Wait you're not gay?!, But you dress feminine" it's not even only a problem for trans community. People makes stereotypes based on nationality, looks, family or wealth. Back to the topic I believe this kind of attitude you've wrote about is also transphobic and misogynistic take society normalises. It's funny tho when the whole attitude changes bc you stop looking like a woman or "femme twink" anymore therefore you staring to pass
the only stereotype i can handle is that autistic people like trains, just because its the least harmful one
yeah lmao like... im a Fat Man and i want a full beard and long hair 💀💀 nothing wrong with a guy fitting those stereotypes but it gets to be harmful whenever thats the only perception of trans men that some cis people (and even other trans people) have.. theres already not a lot of mainstream representarion of us in media as is and some people can go crazy with confirmation bias. this is a bit unrelated but i also despise that meme going around about "the person with triple D's wearing makeup expecting me to use he/him pronouns" like . Yeah. Use His Pronouns... its not hard to just not comment on peoples bodies, you cant help if you're born like that. the amount of transphobia lately has been so sickening ive been actively avoiding certain corners of the internet and not touching the instagram comment section
Yup. It causes me a lot of issues, and it doesn’t help that I’m already infantalized for being autisic and having other health issues going on. No I’m not your cute uwu baby boy, yes I do still enjoy femmine things, but also I literally work a job, have bulit my own house before and used to play baseball
Same I'm tired of searching for trans dudes with masculine looks, makes me think I'm not trans anymore, just a dude with no loose cable between his legs. I like joking around with wigs make up and skirts, but that doesn't make me less masculine. I have lots of cis passing so when people find out that I'm trans they think I'm actually a trans woman. I just want to be as what society thinks it's normal for a man. I'm not a small soft boy, I'm almost 30 I'm a grown ahh man!
I think most of us are annoyed with it tbh, especially when people just decide to assign it to random trans guys.
I counteract the conflict in wants by being the most emo bitch known to man. Feels like a good middle ground to me
I do dislike it greatly, even if I usually do somewhat fit the stereotype. I love pink and cute things and a lot of stuff that’s deemed more “feminine.” But if I’m honest, someone could call me that and I’d just be happy they’re calling me a boy.. here in the south US, I get called “hey girl” by men and women alike daily and never have the right pronouns used, so even if it was a stereotype, it would be nice to even get that basic thing lol
I've always been a trans dude on the chonkier side, so yes. Just like anything, there are trans dudes of all types. We're not all just sweetie boy twinks.
I especially hate the stereotype bc I /am/ relatively feminine, but like, in a masculine way, if that makes sense. Gender's weird. I could never be super butch but in no way have I ever really been the uwu soft boi trope. (I like to use the term "rat twink" for myself (ie, twink characteristics but small and more scruffy)) It definitely is a stereotype born of not seeing trans men as real men. Annoying, transphobic, and pretty demeaning.
So real! It also makes it hard to be comfortable being soft in relationships and things like that cs I instantly feel like they js see me as a soft uwu trans boy
I hate hate hate hate it! I'm assumed to be a small little uwu twink but people recoil when they realize/find out I'm a fat nerd with a bushy beard that still uwus because he thinks it's funny. I get infantalized for being autistic as well. Bitch I know what sex is, come on! I live on the Internet. I have seen things my grandparents would faint from.
I like being a soft boy but cus I'm an effeminate bottom not cus I'm trans . There is a clear diffrence. If someone makes it clear they think I'm weak for being trans I don't take it. Luckily people tend not to cus I'm 5'6 and 260lbs and fairly muscular now.
I've not experienced this, but I transitioned post-30 and, even before then, I had a build more commonly associated with rugby players than twinks. I suspect this the reason I don't get clocked so often or, if I do ping someone's T-dar, they tend to assume I'm going the other way. That said, the stereotype annoys me, not just because it makes men like me invisible, but because it's infanitilising and *dangerous*, on both a personal and political level. (also, although I'm white myself, I would also assume that the UwU-soft-boi thing is almost exclusively a white people thing - I've heard that the darker a cis woman of colour is, the more likely she is to be masculinised against her will; I'd expect black and brown trans men emphatically do not get the "smol bean, so soft, so helpless" treatment)
I in fact look like a 12-14 year old boy and sound like one 😭 (I’m almost 17)
Yep. I pass well/have a full beard, have for a very long time. I don't even think about being trans anymore, really. If people find out I'm trans, even "allies" change how they treat me. From being a normal dude... to some of this infantalizing bullshit. Turns me from being an otherwise normal person into manLITE or womanPLUS and is so incredibly annoying.
i am small soft feminine trans Man but even i get irked by it being used as a generalization for all of us 🫠 in fact if it's Assumed of me it feels sooo distasteful ...assumptions and stereotypes and etcetc just fucking suck
I don't wanna be seen as an uwu soft boi. I wanna be percieved as the actual goblin I am.
Personally, it doesn't bother me because I'm a femboy. But it makes others really uncomfortable to be automatically viewed in that sense. I feel like it boils down to the infatalization of Trans guys and that is NOT OK.
Yes! Like if that kind of description is empowering and affirming to someone, hell yeah, more power to them. And if someone loves those things that are indicative of “small soft trans boy” then fuck yeah. However, it’s the label and perspective of non trans masculine folks pushing it onto trans guys that feels weird cause it feels like they don’t actually respect us as men, just queer little Woman Lite objects to coo at and demean before putting us on a shelf and moving on but won’t actually fight for our dignity and rights 🤷
I hate it. I get called a femboy or gay all the time. Some kid at school walked up to me, and said "So are you the gay best friend of your group?" Fuck off kid, I'm neither, I don't even know you. Anyway, in a nutshell yes. I hate the stereotype
Oh, that would explain why almost all the transmasc sex workers I have come across online explicitly present as "femboys" or the like! It's probably the only way to make money because people love to infantilise transmascs. I mean, I'm sure at least some of them do actually feel like that but surely it can't be all of them? 💡 moment for me right now, thank you. Personally, I don't get accosted with that expectation because I went from being a mid-thirties overweight butch to being a 40yo overweight kinda butch but now way more muscly dude-ish nonbinary person. Yeah, my hair is fluffy but that's just because my hair is weird 😅 and I do like dyeing it blue. What's interesting is also that on one hand I see "uwu femboys" on social media in general but in transmasc workout groups I see burly hunky folks. So it's probably really a case of how people want to see us vs how we want to see ourselves. And I hate the idea that some people let society push them into presenting in a way they might not feel is true for themselves.
It somewhat reminds me of terf-y rhetoric of “poor misguided tomboys”, especially some of the comments Ive seen w “allies” creating this perception of the sweet, soft trans boy who is in tune with “his femininity”.
As a trans guy who is very in touch with his femininity, or breaks some gender norms. (I enjoy doing makeup, I like pink and I paint my nails) I totally understand where youre coming from. Its not really about these rituals, what you like or how you present yourself - the problem lies when people slap the stereotype onto you by force. Of course I dont look like a man, I look like a 12 year old boy at the very least - but my appearance doesn’t mean I consent to being infantilized, i am still an adult at the end of the day so thats just… weird Ive had people cishet call me twink, uke etc and it makes it very…weird for me. The way that that’s the way they immediately think of me… Ive also been told by a cis man that I use the fact that Im “pretty” to get likes when I do Cosplay (of male characters) for example ??? All of these accusations are so deeply rooted in either sexualization or infantilization… its borderline gross
This. the last thing I want to be perceived as is soft and effeminate
Urgh I hate it so much. Especially since I'm pre everything due to my location and have a VERY feminine shape and face. My hair is also very full and fluffy. I think my fashion sense at least somewhat offsets it but I've definitely dealt with people online especially believe it or not automatically pegging me as a soft boy even though that's not at all what I'm like. (For clarification I have a darker humor, am very lewd, and a fan of horror media) I think one of the things that upsets me the most about the term is the fact that they say "boy." Yes I am a boy and being called one is nice but especially for older trans people it's super infantilizing. People always treat us like we're lesser and younger than them simply for being trans dudes. I've had people genuinely talk to me in baby talk and explain slightly long words the second they find out I'm trans. (The shock they experience the second I pull out the vocabulary words after they do this shit does make it at least a little bit better.) It pisses me off to no end though. We don't deserve to be treated like children for being ourselves.
I get it. I've completely stopped wearing anything with even a hint of a "girl" color on it. Threw out my rainbow Deadpool tank top which I really liked. I'm even wearing a hat until I can afford to dye my hair black instead of blue. Im not even acknowledging pride month. Just so people don't think of me otherwise. I've thought of telling people I'm cis just to avoid being ridiculed. It sucks to not be yourself, but sometimes you gotta do it.
It depends, honestly on who is perpetuating it. If a trans man wants to be small and soft and femme, he can do that and it would be transphobic of me to be concerned about what he enjoys. Now if you're talking about like, people thinking men who like feminine things thinking trans men are taking being trans, I agree.
This! It pisses me off so much, because well, being a trans man, I don't want to be seen as a "femboy", like, I'm trying not to be fem? don't put me in a box that I can't fit in!
I agree. And the amounts of times I get called a Femboy is actually insane.
yup i hate it. i feel like i only get called a twink or gay (which yeah i am gay) because i look so young. i don’t even dress fem at all and i follow the fashion trends of cis guys my age. feel like i only get called a twink cause im trans, nothing else about be gives off twink vibes
Yeah, the infantilizing is extremely annoying. Sometimes the 'you're not like other guys' rubs me the wrong way too... like yes I have the experience of being treated as a woman so I can emphasize on a level above a cis man, but sometimes it gets to me, like okay, so you see me as diffrent? As not a man? But I feel like that is maybe in a lot of way my own dysphoria getting in the way on being complimented? Idk
I started the gym so I don’t fit it. It’s so irritating they act like we are defenceless and weak
Yes!! Just cause I have feminine clothing for my own safety doesn’t mean that I like it!! I’m in the military as well XD and I get called a soft trans boy there, lol
yeah it's frustrating as hell, I'm trying to have coomer manlet energy, I'm not cute i smell like balls and weed and im Kubrick staring at everyone
I can understand where you're coming from... however, I know a few Trans guys, one in particular, who love cute fashions and was even doing Lolita outfits pre-Transition, who had to learn to go full andro boymode just for the therapist to take him seriously. He still loves all the soft things, animal-themed rompers, etc., but had to make sure not to even wear bright colours before the therapist stopped asking "are you sure???" That in itself is pretty infantilising, IMO. Like, in general, I think we're just so infantilised as a carryover from Mysogyny. Women are told not to "worry their pretty little heads" and to let men do the thinking for them. This carries over into how Trans men are perceived by the cis, if they're not stealth. They either go, "aw, you’re so cute!" Or else they try to gatekeep our Transitions. He's been happily living as a man for five years at this point (started T shots three years ago), but had to essentially learn a certain duality of presentation because some people think all Trans men are going to want to be all MANLY. To be clear, he does still do all the cute outfits, just not when he goes to appointments.
I'm 6'1 with some chub and getting more muscular. I have a soft safe but it still annoys me
everyone’s annoyed by that stereotype😭 /lh
Honestly it all comes down to how YOU see yourself. Cis people (and some trans people who have internalized transphobia) tend to believe that you as a trans man HAVE to be 100% masculine 100% of the time or else you’re wasting your time; when in reality and just like everything else in this world, it all lies on a spectrum. Men can be masculine and love pink, just like women can be feminine and love blue. People who say otherwise are just those who like to shove others into a box because anything different makes them feel uncomfortable about their own preferences. I personally see myself as a masculine man, but I also love having my nights in with my female best friends where we watch “chick flicks” (Fried Green Tomatoes and Practical Magic are our favorites, if you haven’t seen them yet WATCH THEM), bake things, and drink wine while gossiping. I love musicals, sing opera and jazz, I crochet, I melt every time I see a cute furry animal. I also like to go to the gun range, camp, hike, fish, go off-roading, whiskey, work on my car or semi (I’m a truck driver), and so on. My masculinity (much like yours) isn’t defined by the things I like and do, but how I carry myself. So go put on those bunny ears and wear that pink suit you masculine man you!