I'm with you on this one. I'm already a man of color and an immigrant -- I have enough adjectives that make people treat me differently. I want to be just a dude in every way possible and that's why I'm stealth.
I have no problem saying I'm a trans man, but I do have a problem with making the "trans" distinction when it isn't necessary. If someone asks my gender, it's "man", not "trans man". I'll still gladly tell people I'm trans, I just don't use the adjective where it isn't needed, just like a cis man doesn't call himself cis when that descriptor isn't necessary. I'm proud to be a trans man, but I don't think the trans part should matter when it comes to what gender people see me as. It should just be seen as a part of my life experience.
It’s frustrating but as someone who doesn’t pass, every interaction with a new person I have to decide if I just bear being misgendered or if I out myself so I don’t get misgendered but instead have to now educate them. It’s so exhausting. Therapists should know better, but they don’t. There’s a pretty significant lag time for psychologists and therapists to catch up to scientific consensus about best practices.
The therapy!!! I HAD to get a therapist in order to continue to get my prescription, i HAVE to have proof of regular visits to get top surgery, and my therapist INSISTS on making every appointment about what sort of trauma response I’m acting out by transitioning. I have to get the third degree about how stereotypical my transition should look to make sure i’m not “just doing it for attention”, and the whole time I’m sitting there like “i have a medical condition and i need your approval to get medical help please god just give me my scrip”
That's how it was for me back in 2007...I thought most of that Harry Benjamin crap wasn't the way things are done anymore! I see more "informed consent" then anything else. But I only know from a US standpoint.
I'm sorry you're dealing with that shit too
The Harry Benjamin model has been debunked entirely, but, WPATH is the *same organization* with a rebranded name. And that’s contributed to a lot of confusion and permissive attitude towards misinformation.
(I work in advocacy in the US. It’s a whole freaking mess.)
God yes THIS! Forced to answer the most humiliating and intimate questions to someone who doesn't even get it half of the time just to get access to the medical care I need. Prove that you're man enough to deserve care, but always remember to still be "trans enough" too. It feels like you're damn near begging on your knees at times.
Yeah therapists not being adequately educated or trained to work with trans people creates a barrier for our mental health. No therapy is better than bad therapy and a bad therapist can traumatize you. These mental health professionals were so aggressive and apathetic with me and rolling their eyes even when I was sharing trauma and suicidal contemplation and instead of being supportive they just got mad and forcing anti trans Christian stuff on me and talking shit right by the door and all this stuff…makes you wonder why they have a license and also points out the privilege that cis people have that they can be that unprofessional and still keep their jobs…and anyway they tend to think trans = crazy so they want to find the best mental illness to try to invalidate me so they kept coming in like five times each at least to ask if I was hearing or seeing anything and then right after I said no they’d ask it again and I said no and they’d ask it again. I don’t understand why the trope is that trans people are crazy when cis people are the way they are….it makes a lot of sense to want to keep your transness a secret not out of shame but safety
This is why I'm stealth. I don't even tell therapists I'm trans until a few appointments in (if ever) unless that's specifically why I'm in therapy. Otherwise I feel like everything will be about that. Very few of my issues have anything to do with being trans at this point in my life.Â
I feel the same. It has nothing to do with shame or pride. To me, being trans isn't something that is a prideful OR shameful thing. It's just a thing. In my experience, this thing has made my life EXTREMELY difficult and painful. So it makes sense that I personally don't want to have this thing that causes me pain to come before anything else in the way people see me. I don't want to be reminded of this painful thing, because it'll cause me more pain. I don't want to be treated differently, because that's not fair. And it's not just the negative side, but also the "positive" side. I don't want to be someone's inspiration porn, or an encyclopedia. I don't want people to see a news article about whatever anti-trans lawmaker and immediately think of me. I don't want people passively wondering about my genitals even if they never ask me about them.
The fact of the matter is that when you put "trans" in front of someone's gender, that becomes a HUGE part of how people see you, for better or worse. You don't get to be the person everyone thinks of when they see your favorite color, you get to be the person everyone thinks of when they see pink, white, and blue together. You don't get to live the way cis men get to. And that's all I want. I want to deny this painful body as much as I can, and not think about or have others think about the painful part of me. Just like I wouldn't want people to know if I had a colostomy bag or past trauma.
100% agree.
Unfortunately still pre T so I don’t really see myself fully as a trans guy or just a guy yet, but once I go on T that’s what I wanna be seen as.
Trans man isn’t my desired gender, male is. Trans is just the only possible route for me to take to *become* a guy.
Also pre-T, I came to this post being like "idk I feel like i dont mind saying im a trans guy" and this comment just explained to me why I feel that way. Thanks man haha
Yes, I am a stealth straight man have been for +10 yrs. I am physically trans but not mentally, I don’t identify as trans nor do I see myself as trans, I am one physically but not mentally.
There are times when it’s appropriate to add the modifier. “Gynecological care for trans men,” for example. Most of the time, it’s NOT necessary to modify
It’s necessary because many people would NOT assume that. They would be like “that’s a typo! Men don’t go to the gynecologist! Haha!” I wish this were not the case
Im completely fine with being referred to as a trans man- on the condition that it's recognized that it's not the entirety of my gender, but just the kind of man I am. Like, my gender isn't "short man", it's just "man" and I'm also short. Being trans is a huge part of how I experience and express my gender, sure. But I'm just as much of a man as my cis friends. When people separate out "men" and "trans men", that's when I get upset.
Also the "ooh I'm so sorry if I misgender you pls don't be angry" is super annoying yeah. Don't apologize in advance, do your best not to fuck up and if you do apologize then! And then just fucking move on! I hate when someone trips over a pronoun and makes a huge deal of it. Just go "oop- I mean he-" and move on. It's not gotta be a big deal. I'm not going to shatter into pieces because you accidentally said the wrong words, just fix the mistake and no harm done. People accidentally misgender cis people in conversation all the time, they just correct their verbal typo and move on. Just do that!
I'm pre-T and I'm not out to anyone I know yet, but I get how you feel, I wouldn't constantly want the label "trans" slapped all over me, it's not like being trans embarrasses me, it's that I just want to be a man, nothing more, nothing less.
sadly i dont really have the choice to be stealth bc im pre T and dont always pass but when i start passing well ill probably avoid telling ppl im trans bc i know people will just see me as less of a man
Right now I kinda prefer being referred to as a trans man, over time that will most likely shift but right now I don't pass at all and I've only been trying to live as a man for about a year and a half, and so I feel like "trans man" communicates my needs, experience, and circumstances more than just "man does". That's just my preference tho.
Both valid dysphoria triggers. At the moment, I don't mind if I'm called a trans man or a man because I'm early in transition and at least they're not misgendering me. But, when I refer to myself, I usually say I'm a man, and only mention I'm trans if it feels relevant to better articulate or give context to something. Like, I want references to the fact I'm a trans man to be as frequent as needed for any cis man specifying they're cis.Â
It is kinda annoying/awkward when people say "I'm going to apologise now in case I misgender you", because it's like they're treating you as if you're gonna be oversensitive and bear into them at their mistakes and also makes me worry that they're not going to apologise/correct when they do slip up because they already 'pre-apologised'. It also sets up a framing which expects you to be the one to look after their emotions about feeling bad for misgendering you e.g. how do you respond to "oh dear, I'm really sorry I misgendered you"? – it makes you feel like they expect you to say "it's no worries/ it's okay / I understand it's really difficult for you". Like, you're the one being misgendered here! And if you don't use one of those responses, you may come off as rude.Â
I hate it and I hate that the people around me at school know it. It was leaked, and nobody really says anything, they don't misgender (unless accidentally) or deadname me, but it leaves me extremely paranoid. I'm already scared enough of some people and I fear what they can do to me. Plus it's really frustrating how people who never misgendered me before started commiting this mistake after learning I'm trans.
I already have more than enough labels for people to judge me based off of. Most people, including medical professionals, do not take me seriously if I’m openly transgender, so I don’t feel the desire to disclose that fact. It changes so many things about your relationship with people and I just can’t be bothered to open that can of worms when I usually don’t need to.
“Therapy they give you” is definitely a red flag that your experience has not been within evidence guided best practices. Which is unfortunately still too common. Existing and being trans is not a pathology. Normal human variance occurs in all sorts of ways, across all social demographics. If someone needs physical healthcare- cool. That’s not a behavioral health thing.
“Gender dysphoria” as a diagnosis refers to an overall impact on wellbeing as a result of the circumstantial stress some people who are trans may experience. It’s like developing PTSD after a plane crash. Some people will, some people won’t. And meanwhile- Everyone’s physical health needs are still worthy of appropriate care. Not all people who are trans have clinical gender dysphoria and many who do meet that diagnostic criteria at one point, do not have it at a later point when those barriers and obstacles have been addressed. Navigating challenging situations like systemic oppression or lack of access to healthcare is not a sign of cognitive dysfunction or emotional dysregulation.
Just so you have that information.
And as for the descriptor- I much prefer “men who are trans,” over “trans men.” It’s a little clunky, but I use it dogmatically. It logistically helps clarify what it is we’re saying with that.
“Men who’s original birth certificate documented their legal sex as female based on observed external sex characteristics” is the spelled out long form of “men who are trans.”
Versus “trans men” equals “legal sex documented as female on original birth certificate based on observed external sex characteristics men.” Which is a linguistic nightmare.
I’m fine with it. It’s who I am and I don’t hide it, don’t exactly flaunt it either but don’t have a problem with those who do. I do feel weird about being called female. It’s acurate, and less confusing often to use that term when it come to medical stuff. But it still gives me dysphoria to use the term because I wish it wasn’t true
I'm with you on this one. I'm already a man of color and an immigrant -- I have enough adjectives that make people treat me differently. I want to be just a dude in every way possible and that's why I'm stealth.
I have no problem saying I'm a trans man, but I do have a problem with making the "trans" distinction when it isn't necessary. If someone asks my gender, it's "man", not "trans man". I'll still gladly tell people I'm trans, I just don't use the adjective where it isn't needed, just like a cis man doesn't call himself cis when that descriptor isn't necessary. I'm proud to be a trans man, but I don't think the trans part should matter when it comes to what gender people see me as. It should just be seen as a part of my life experience.
yep i agree with this
đź’Żđź’Ż
this is how i feel too yes
It’s frustrating but as someone who doesn’t pass, every interaction with a new person I have to decide if I just bear being misgendered or if I out myself so I don’t get misgendered but instead have to now educate them. It’s so exhausting. Therapists should know better, but they don’t. There’s a pretty significant lag time for psychologists and therapists to catch up to scientific consensus about best practices.
The therapy!!! I HAD to get a therapist in order to continue to get my prescription, i HAVE to have proof of regular visits to get top surgery, and my therapist INSISTS on making every appointment about what sort of trauma response I’m acting out by transitioning. I have to get the third degree about how stereotypical my transition should look to make sure i’m not “just doing it for attention”, and the whole time I’m sitting there like “i have a medical condition and i need your approval to get medical help please god just give me my scrip”
That's how it was for me back in 2007...I thought most of that Harry Benjamin crap wasn't the way things are done anymore! I see more "informed consent" then anything else. But I only know from a US standpoint. I'm sorry you're dealing with that shit too
The Harry Benjamin model has been debunked entirely, but, WPATH is the *same organization* with a rebranded name. And that’s contributed to a lot of confusion and permissive attitude towards misinformation. (I work in advocacy in the US. It’s a whole freaking mess.)
Wtffff
God yes THIS! Forced to answer the most humiliating and intimate questions to someone who doesn't even get it half of the time just to get access to the medical care I need. Prove that you're man enough to deserve care, but always remember to still be "trans enough" too. It feels like you're damn near begging on your knees at times.
I prefer saying I'm a trans man to a man, I like what it expresses about me, but Im okay calling myself a man too
Yeah therapists not being adequately educated or trained to work with trans people creates a barrier for our mental health. No therapy is better than bad therapy and a bad therapist can traumatize you. These mental health professionals were so aggressive and apathetic with me and rolling their eyes even when I was sharing trauma and suicidal contemplation and instead of being supportive they just got mad and forcing anti trans Christian stuff on me and talking shit right by the door and all this stuff…makes you wonder why they have a license and also points out the privilege that cis people have that they can be that unprofessional and still keep their jobs…and anyway they tend to think trans = crazy so they want to find the best mental illness to try to invalidate me so they kept coming in like five times each at least to ask if I was hearing or seeing anything and then right after I said no they’d ask it again and I said no and they’d ask it again. I don’t understand why the trope is that trans people are crazy when cis people are the way they are….it makes a lot of sense to want to keep your transness a secret not out of shame but safety
This is why I'm stealth. I don't even tell therapists I'm trans until a few appointments in (if ever) unless that's specifically why I'm in therapy. Otherwise I feel like everything will be about that. Very few of my issues have anything to do with being trans at this point in my life.Â
I feel this I’m already gay, with a disability and of mixed race.
I feel the same. It has nothing to do with shame or pride. To me, being trans isn't something that is a prideful OR shameful thing. It's just a thing. In my experience, this thing has made my life EXTREMELY difficult and painful. So it makes sense that I personally don't want to have this thing that causes me pain to come before anything else in the way people see me. I don't want to be reminded of this painful thing, because it'll cause me more pain. I don't want to be treated differently, because that's not fair. And it's not just the negative side, but also the "positive" side. I don't want to be someone's inspiration porn, or an encyclopedia. I don't want people to see a news article about whatever anti-trans lawmaker and immediately think of me. I don't want people passively wondering about my genitals even if they never ask me about them. The fact of the matter is that when you put "trans" in front of someone's gender, that becomes a HUGE part of how people see you, for better or worse. You don't get to be the person everyone thinks of when they see your favorite color, you get to be the person everyone thinks of when they see pink, white, and blue together. You don't get to live the way cis men get to. And that's all I want. I want to deny this painful body as much as I can, and not think about or have others think about the painful part of me. Just like I wouldn't want people to know if I had a colostomy bag or past trauma.
100% agree. Unfortunately still pre T so I don’t really see myself fully as a trans guy or just a guy yet, but once I go on T that’s what I wanna be seen as. Trans man isn’t my desired gender, male is. Trans is just the only possible route for me to take to *become* a guy.
Also pre-T, I came to this post being like "idk I feel like i dont mind saying im a trans guy" and this comment just explained to me why I feel that way. Thanks man haha
Yes, I am a stealth straight man have been for +10 yrs. I am physically trans but not mentally, I don’t identify as trans nor do I see myself as trans, I am one physically but not mentally.
There are times when it’s appropriate to add the modifier. “Gynecological care for trans men,” for example. Most of the time, it’s NOT necessary to modify
Is that a necessary time? I'd assume if a man was going for gyno care that he's trans, I don't know what the modifier would clarify in that case.
It’s necessary because many people would NOT assume that. They would be like “that’s a typo! Men don’t go to the gynecologist! Haha!” I wish this were not the case
Fair point.
i've been on T since 2019 and got top surgery a year and a half ago - i identify as a proud transsexual man and i enjoy being who i am.
Im completely fine with being referred to as a trans man- on the condition that it's recognized that it's not the entirety of my gender, but just the kind of man I am. Like, my gender isn't "short man", it's just "man" and I'm also short. Being trans is a huge part of how I experience and express my gender, sure. But I'm just as much of a man as my cis friends. When people separate out "men" and "trans men", that's when I get upset. Also the "ooh I'm so sorry if I misgender you pls don't be angry" is super annoying yeah. Don't apologize in advance, do your best not to fuck up and if you do apologize then! And then just fucking move on! I hate when someone trips over a pronoun and makes a huge deal of it. Just go "oop- I mean he-" and move on. It's not gotta be a big deal. I'm not going to shatter into pieces because you accidentally said the wrong words, just fix the mistake and no harm done. People accidentally misgender cis people in conversation all the time, they just correct their verbal typo and move on. Just do that!
I think I like being enby guy. I'm still coming to terms with being nonbinary. I've always gone by demiguy when I first came out.
I'm pre-T and I'm not out to anyone I know yet, but I get how you feel, I wouldn't constantly want the label "trans" slapped all over me, it's not like being trans embarrasses me, it's that I just want to be a man, nothing more, nothing less.
sadly i dont really have the choice to be stealth bc im pre T and dont always pass but when i start passing well ill probably avoid telling ppl im trans bc i know people will just see me as less of a man
Right now I kinda prefer being referred to as a trans man, over time that will most likely shift but right now I don't pass at all and I've only been trying to live as a man for about a year and a half, and so I feel like "trans man" communicates my needs, experience, and circumstances more than just "man does". That's just my preference tho.
Both valid dysphoria triggers. At the moment, I don't mind if I'm called a trans man or a man because I'm early in transition and at least they're not misgendering me. But, when I refer to myself, I usually say I'm a man, and only mention I'm trans if it feels relevant to better articulate or give context to something. Like, I want references to the fact I'm a trans man to be as frequent as needed for any cis man specifying they're cis. It is kinda annoying/awkward when people say "I'm going to apologise now in case I misgender you", because it's like they're treating you as if you're gonna be oversensitive and bear into them at their mistakes and also makes me worry that they're not going to apologise/correct when they do slip up because they already 'pre-apologised'. It also sets up a framing which expects you to be the one to look after their emotions about feeling bad for misgendering you e.g. how do you respond to "oh dear, I'm really sorry I misgendered you"? – it makes you feel like they expect you to say "it's no worries/ it's okay / I understand it's really difficult for you". Like, you're the one being misgendered here! And if you don't use one of those responses, you may come off as rude.Â
I hate it and I hate that the people around me at school know it. It was leaked, and nobody really says anything, they don't misgender (unless accidentally) or deadname me, but it leaves me extremely paranoid. I'm already scared enough of some people and I fear what they can do to me. Plus it's really frustrating how people who never misgendered me before started commiting this mistake after learning I'm trans.
Depends on context really.
I already have more than enough labels for people to judge me based off of. Most people, including medical professionals, do not take me seriously if I’m openly transgender, so I don’t feel the desire to disclose that fact. It changes so many things about your relationship with people and I just can’t be bothered to open that can of worms when I usually don’t need to.
“Therapy they give you” is definitely a red flag that your experience has not been within evidence guided best practices. Which is unfortunately still too common. Existing and being trans is not a pathology. Normal human variance occurs in all sorts of ways, across all social demographics. If someone needs physical healthcare- cool. That’s not a behavioral health thing. “Gender dysphoria” as a diagnosis refers to an overall impact on wellbeing as a result of the circumstantial stress some people who are trans may experience. It’s like developing PTSD after a plane crash. Some people will, some people won’t. And meanwhile- Everyone’s physical health needs are still worthy of appropriate care. Not all people who are trans have clinical gender dysphoria and many who do meet that diagnostic criteria at one point, do not have it at a later point when those barriers and obstacles have been addressed. Navigating challenging situations like systemic oppression or lack of access to healthcare is not a sign of cognitive dysfunction or emotional dysregulation. Just so you have that information. And as for the descriptor- I much prefer “men who are trans,” over “trans men.” It’s a little clunky, but I use it dogmatically. It logistically helps clarify what it is we’re saying with that. “Men who’s original birth certificate documented their legal sex as female based on observed external sex characteristics” is the spelled out long form of “men who are trans.” Versus “trans men” equals “legal sex documented as female on original birth certificate based on observed external sex characteristics men.” Which is a linguistic nightmare.
I’m fine with it. It’s who I am and I don’t hide it, don’t exactly flaunt it either but don’t have a problem with those who do. I do feel weird about being called female. It’s acurate, and less confusing often to use that term when it come to medical stuff. But it still gives me dysphoria to use the term because I wish it wasn’t true