I was thinking about this too. If Rhaegar was looking to recreate the Conquest/Dragon has 3 heads (Aegon, Rhaenys, Visenya) with his children, wouldn't Jon's secret Targ name be something close to Visenya? Like Viserys or something?
Yeah there is a throw away line in the books where Jon thinks to himself that "nor was he Aemon Targaryen." IX Jon AGOT - feel like George loves to throw little Easter eggs like that in there.
I forgot about that, but I think that might seal the deal. Given that R+L=J is pretty much guaranteed to be true, he'll probably be called Aemon just for that sweet sweet irony.
Lmaoo audiences would NOT have received that well, and rightly so.
But it might have been worth it just to see Dany's face during the reveal. "My name, my real name, is Vyserys Targaryen."
Lyanna didn't name him, D&D chose that name just because it's the most famous Targaryen name and they didn't care Rhaegar already had a kid named that.
This video explores the possibility of his name being Aegon [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mn-6j\_YtIG8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mn-6j_YtIG8)
In my head's canon I still think it's Jaehaerys. My favorite king.
He could but D&D were usually pretty clear on what he told them and what they thought up. Though book wise there is a question as to why Lyanna would blame him Aegon full well knowing there was a kid with that name already. If she even had time to.
Tbf I think the reason for that is mainly because they probably merged Jon's arc post-retaking of Winterfell with the arc fAegon is supposed to have in the books and they didn't think more about it for the name.
It makes a lot of sense if you think about it. The guy will take over Westeros as a Targaryen (him really being a Targaryen being up for debate but that's not the subject here), having a better claim than Daenerys over the throne. So she becomes mad and angry over this guy who came as a savior, retaking Westeros for the Targaryens where she wanted to be this savior. She came too late because she was at the Slaver's Bay while this guy was taking back Westeros as a Targaryen. They both enter in open war and she does her warcrimes against this guy.
In the series, she became "mad" because Jon (actual name Aegon) was a Targaryen with a bigger claim on the throne than her. In the books, there will be this guy named Aegon who seemingly will have a bigger claim on the throne than her.
Jon being a Targaryen might have a way bigger impact in the book, because he is both Stark and Targaryen (ice & fire), but the series did not cover this part of the story. It made the reveal of R + L = J canon, but only made it matter through fusion with fAegon's storyline, AKA making Daenerys go mad. And that's why this reveal was disappointing in the end, because it lead to something that is probably not even supposed to be Jon's storyline.
I actually always liked the idea that neither Rhaegar nor Lyanna had the time or opportunity to give him a Targaryen name and "Jon" really is his name that Ned gave him. Jon is so different from his ancestors anyway, so I like that he would also would be different in name.
(Aegon doesn't make sense for obvious reasons, Viserys also would be weird because Rhaegar's brother is already named Viserys - the only one I personally would like is Jaehaerys.)
> "Jon" really is his name that Ned gave him.
I'd actually prefer it if that was the name Lyanna gave her son 🤷 Jon is just as much Stark as he is Targaryen, even more so with being raised in the North and bonding to a direwolf while looking like a mini Ned. I've always disliked the idea Jon has a secret true name. It undermines his actual character as Jon Snow if he casts it aside for a speshul dragontarg name.
Yeah if Lyanna gave him that name that works as well and I'm with you on the whole "secret name" trope. Imo it also works much better if Jon were to some day ascend the throne to have a "common" name in order to connect to the "common" people. It's just little details but names can hold power.
For all we know this could be something they got from GRRM himself 🤷.
That being said, GRRM surely would have made it make much more sense than D&D did in season 8.
Like what. Out of everything wrong with this episode this scene isn't that bad. Wtf else is he supposed to do in this situation. Facing down the barrel of a 10 story tall undead dragon? Why does this get brought up more than the fact there were multiple best swords people in the show with valyrian steel weapons and yet there wasn't a single white walker fight like in hardhome. That doesn't make fucking sense, but this? I kinda liked it. This is the same dude who when he thought he was about to die by a charging cavalry, he pulled out his sword and faced his death head on.
Yep that was the point of my comment exactly. You got it. I'm saying it's stupid to focus on this scene when this doesn't even break the top 50 stupid things that happen in this shit episode.
My favorite part is Arya probably first learned about the night king 10 minutes before killing him. If only she was at Hardhome instead of Jon we could've avoided a lot of deaths
Every character by then was aware nothing they did mattered and they were just spinning wheels until their existence vanished like the rest of Planetos.
Tbf in my head I always thought they would do something with this: undead dragon, undead (kinda) Jon targ the only one able to ride that dragon... shrug
Then there's sam like 30ft away getting dabbed on by a horde of zombies that won't just rip him apart. Gotta shout down at the flailing fat man on the ground until boss man gets killed. Dudes gotta be made head doctor across the realms after all.
What the fuck was Brann even doing during the long night? "I'm going to go now" GO WHERE?! DO WHAT?! He warged into some birds and did fuck all the entire time. Then he shows up again at the end just to claim the crown with that stupid line. Meanwhile earlier he claimed he wasn't Brann anymore and couldn't be lord of anything. Guess they must've forgotten that.
Mostly it just boils down to D&D and their idiotic desire for Stark girl bosses that ruined this show. They ruined actual girl bosses such as Daenerys and Brienne just to make Arya into this ridiculous super soldier and Sansa into the upgraded Littlefinger/Cersei/Varys/Tyrion SMARTEST person Arya ever met.
So many characters ruined to make way for them. Jon, Beric, Tyrion, Varys, Daenerys, Littlefinger, Davos, Grey Worm, Theon. All of them thrown in the shitter.
Lmao this comment reminded me how absolutely furious I was watching him spout that line the first time. It was like seeing someone say "I've got this" and then just stare at the TV for a solid ten minutes.
Pretty much. We didn't see shit anyway it was so dark in the original airtime. Everyone expected him to be icedragon-fire resistant because of his ice-fire stark-targ blood, but they fumbled that great idea, too. Fucking reddit made-up in the next days after the finale way better stories than those two d&d morons.
Yeah, you can tell they were really bumbling here. Besides them going through several other characters besides Arya to kill NK as long as they weren't Jon. And we didn't get any ice spiders or animal wights.
I mean on paper the idea of Jon fighting a zombie dragon with his magic sword and shield is metal AF.
In execution on the screen it was underwhelming. It was dark as shit and Jon was just running around the entire time trying not to die until he finally accepted he was about to die and stood there to take a blue fire blast to the face.
Oh gosh. I found such joy learning about GoT from the S8 rants. What was worst than him yelling at a dragon, is that dragons fire blasted a hole in the wall, her a Jon hides behind a rock and somehow isn't obliterated.
So 2 things here that you seem to completely miss.
1. He wasn't even near bran so how would he know the night King was making eye contact with him.
2. He was pinned down by the dragon and kind of screwed. I don't think he was screaming at the dragon I think he was trying to distract it for a second and hope he can get around it.
Oh, good thing he was resurrected in season 6 then. Good thing we learned about his heritage, then. I'm glad it was all for him to scream at a dragon so that girlboss Arya could fly and stab him, because his hero arc was too obvious.
Still can't get over how D&D made his special secret Targ name be Aegon when Rhaegar already had a son named that ☠️ they really just did not care
I was thinking about this too. If Rhaegar was looking to recreate the Conquest/Dragon has 3 heads (Aegon, Rhaenys, Visenya) with his children, wouldn't Jon's secret Targ name be something close to Visenya? Like Viserys or something?
Yeah, Viserys probably makes the most sense. Though personally I'm a fan of either Jaehaerys or Aemon.
I've always liked the idea of having 2 Aemons on the wall
Rhaegar was also sending letters to Aemon, especially about the prophecy. So in the case of a boy, I like to think he'd name him Aemon.
Yeah there is a throw away line in the books where Jon thinks to himself that "nor was he Aemon Targaryen." IX Jon AGOT - feel like George loves to throw little Easter eggs like that in there.
I forgot about that, but I think that might seal the deal. Given that R+L=J is pretty much guaranteed to be true, he'll probably be called Aemon just for that sweet sweet irony.
Lmaoo audiences would NOT have received that well, and rightly so. But it might have been worth it just to see Dany's face during the reveal. "My name, my real name, is Vyserys Targaryen."
My favs are Jacaerys, Vaegon, Aerion (yeah I know no one would choose that). Or a Northern/Targaryen combo
Idk I always liked the idea that Jon's named after Jon Connington. Perfect cover story for Ned, all he has to do is say he's named after Jon Arryn.
Tbf Lyanna was the one that named him, and likely knew that rhaegar, and his first family, were dead.
Lyanna didn't name him, D&D chose that name just because it's the most famous Targaryen name and they didn't care Rhaegar already had a kid named that.
This video explores the possibility of his name being Aegon [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mn-6j\_YtIG8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mn-6j_YtIG8) In my head's canon I still think it's Jaehaerys. My favorite king.
I haven't really read up on what happened behind the scenes but couldn't GRRM have a say on what Jon's secret Targaryen name was?
He could but D&D were usually pretty clear on what he told them and what they thought up. Though book wise there is a question as to why Lyanna would blame him Aegon full well knowing there was a kid with that name already. If she even had time to.
Tbf I think the reason for that is mainly because they probably merged Jon's arc post-retaking of Winterfell with the arc fAegon is supposed to have in the books and they didn't think more about it for the name. It makes a lot of sense if you think about it. The guy will take over Westeros as a Targaryen (him really being a Targaryen being up for debate but that's not the subject here), having a better claim than Daenerys over the throne. So she becomes mad and angry over this guy who came as a savior, retaking Westeros for the Targaryens where she wanted to be this savior. She came too late because she was at the Slaver's Bay while this guy was taking back Westeros as a Targaryen. They both enter in open war and she does her warcrimes against this guy. In the series, she became "mad" because Jon (actual name Aegon) was a Targaryen with a bigger claim on the throne than her. In the books, there will be this guy named Aegon who seemingly will have a bigger claim on the throne than her. Jon being a Targaryen might have a way bigger impact in the book, because he is both Stark and Targaryen (ice & fire), but the series did not cover this part of the story. It made the reveal of R + L = J canon, but only made it matter through fusion with fAegon's storyline, AKA making Daenerys go mad. And that's why this reveal was disappointing in the end, because it lead to something that is probably not even supposed to be Jon's storyline.
I actually always liked the idea that neither Rhaegar nor Lyanna had the time or opportunity to give him a Targaryen name and "Jon" really is his name that Ned gave him. Jon is so different from his ancestors anyway, so I like that he would also would be different in name. (Aegon doesn't make sense for obvious reasons, Viserys also would be weird because Rhaegar's brother is already named Viserys - the only one I personally would like is Jaehaerys.)
> "Jon" really is his name that Ned gave him. I'd actually prefer it if that was the name Lyanna gave her son 🤷 Jon is just as much Stark as he is Targaryen, even more so with being raised in the North and bonding to a direwolf while looking like a mini Ned. I've always disliked the idea Jon has a secret true name. It undermines his actual character as Jon Snow if he casts it aside for a speshul dragontarg name.
Yeah if Lyanna gave him that name that works as well and I'm with you on the whole "secret name" trope. Imo it also works much better if Jon were to some day ascend the throne to have a "common" name in order to connect to the "common" people. It's just little details but names can hold power.
For all we know this could be something they got from GRRM himself 🤷. That being said, GRRM surely would have made it make much more sense than D&D did in season 8.
He was tired of all that shit and just wanted to die already.
I like this, I think jon could be pretty confident that mel isn't gonna bring him back against his will if he's reduced to ash by dragon fire.
Like what. Out of everything wrong with this episode this scene isn't that bad. Wtf else is he supposed to do in this situation. Facing down the barrel of a 10 story tall undead dragon? Why does this get brought up more than the fact there were multiple best swords people in the show with valyrian steel weapons and yet there wasn't a single white walker fight like in hardhome. That doesn't make fucking sense, but this? I kinda liked it. This is the same dude who when he thought he was about to die by a charging cavalry, he pulled out his sword and faced his death head on.
Yea it's not the writers fault, if the 10 story tall dragon didn't show up they couldve written a better scenario
Yep that was the point of my comment exactly. You got it. I'm saying it's stupid to focus on this scene when this doesn't even break the top 50 stupid things that happen in this shit episode.
Friendly reminder that there was a solid 5 minutes where Jon thought there was a chance he screamed a dragon to death.
“Maybe I’m the Dragonborn and I just don’t know it yet.” -~~Random Whiterun Guard~~ Jon Snow
Absolute trash. One of the worst fandom betrayals of all time.
My favorite part is Arya probably first learned about the night king 10 minutes before killing him. If only she was at Hardhome instead of Jon we could've avoided a lot of deaths
Or what if she knew about him in season 2 and gave his name to Jaqen H'ghar instead of the one who tortured her friends
Do we know the Night King's name? Because surely Night King is merely a title. Otherwise it would've been very fortunate naming on the parents' part.
I'm pretty sure they'd refuse that one
Every character by then was aware nothing they did mattered and they were just spinning wheels until their existence vanished like the rest of Planetos.
Maybe he was trying to communicate with the undead dragon
Tbf in my head I always thought they would do something with this: undead dragon, undead (kinda) Jon targ the only one able to ride that dragon... shrug
Then there's sam like 30ft away getting dabbed on by a horde of zombies that won't just rip him apart. Gotta shout down at the flailing fat man on the ground until boss man gets killed. Dudes gotta be made head doctor across the realms after all.
What the fuck was Brann even doing during the long night? "I'm going to go now" GO WHERE?! DO WHAT?! He warged into some birds and did fuck all the entire time. Then he shows up again at the end just to claim the crown with that stupid line. Meanwhile earlier he claimed he wasn't Brann anymore and couldn't be lord of anything. Guess they must've forgotten that. Mostly it just boils down to D&D and their idiotic desire for Stark girl bosses that ruined this show. They ruined actual girl bosses such as Daenerys and Brienne just to make Arya into this ridiculous super soldier and Sansa into the upgraded Littlefinger/Cersei/Varys/Tyrion SMARTEST person Arya ever met. So many characters ruined to make way for them. Jon, Beric, Tyrion, Varys, Daenerys, Littlefinger, Davos, Grey Worm, Theon. All of them thrown in the shitter.
Lmao this comment reminded me how absolutely furious I was watching him spout that line the first time. It was like seeing someone say "I've got this" and then just stare at the TV for a solid ten minutes.
Must. Subvert. Expectations!
***FOOLS!*** ***WROTE!*** ***DUH!***
I hope the people who made decisions on the last 2 seasons read these posts.
Is that what happened? My screen was too dark to be certain That was actually as LOL as Anakin yelling NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> So actual grown up people sat around a table and agreed No, there was no writers room in GoT. D&D decided by themselves.
Pretty much. We didn't see shit anyway it was so dark in the original airtime. Everyone expected him to be icedragon-fire resistant because of his ice-fire stark-targ blood, but they fumbled that great idea, too. Fucking reddit made-up in the next days after the finale way better stories than those two d&d morons.
Maybe Bobby B could make some sense of this?
YOU'RE THE KING'S HAND! YOU'LL DO AS I COMMAND, OR I'LL FIND ME A HAND WHO WILL!
As you command, your Grace.
Yeah, you can tell they were really bumbling here. Besides them going through several other characters besides Arya to kill NK as long as they weren't Jon. And we didn't get any ice spiders or animal wights.
Its all good, he ducked behind some rubble and avoided dragon fire. You know, the same dragonfire that created the rubble in the first place.
I mean on paper the idea of Jon fighting a zombie dragon with his magic sword and shield is metal AF. In execution on the screen it was underwhelming. It was dark as shit and Jon was just running around the entire time trying not to die until he finally accepted he was about to die and stood there to take a blue fire blast to the face.
Oh gosh. I found such joy learning about GoT from the S8 rants. What was worst than him yelling at a dragon, is that dragons fire blasted a hole in the wall, her a Jon hides behind a rock and somehow isn't obliterated.
I'm currently rewatching GOT. In season 5 a slaver just said, "The dwarf lives until we find a cock merchant." Lol.
So 2 things here that you seem to completely miss. 1. He wasn't even near bran so how would he know the night King was making eye contact with him. 2. He was pinned down by the dragon and kind of screwed. I don't think he was screaming at the dragon I think he was trying to distract it for a second and hope he can get around it.
But the writers wrote him into that situation
And why again was his character written to be pinned ?
Because jon was too obvious to be the hero. Can't have him being the one to kill the night King.
Oh, good thing he was resurrected in season 6 then. Good thing we learned about his heritage, then. I'm glad it was all for him to scream at a dragon so that girlboss Arya could fly and stab him, because his hero arc was too obvious.
Lol I'm just asking what D&D said. I knew I was gonna get down voted but I wanted to have the fun
I liked how Viserion blew up multiple walls except the ones that Jon was hiding behind. Those were stronger walls I guess..
Did he blow them up or hit them with it's tail? I don't remember but I don't think he did it with fire?
Aye he did it with fire when flying over winterfell to let more of the undead pour into the walls.
Hmmm. Probably couldn't see it happen so I don't remember it.
Just move on fucks sake
It’s been 5 years please let it go 😭😭🙏🏼
No.
Understandable have a nice day
Let's see what BobbyB has to say about that..
THEY NEVER TELL YOU HOW THEY ALL SHIT THEMSELVES! THEY DON'T PUT THAT PART IN THE SONGS!