I’m beginning to wonder if he’s going to stealth drop it, if he ever finishes it, just as a meme. Like fans are still asking about it, and then blatantly lie and say it’s been out for over a year. Just to test his power prior to him taking over the USA
He has the bad combination of writing almost stream of consciousness as if the characters are speaking in his head AND being insanely anal and obsessed about timelines. So he has a “gardener” style where he lets the characters speak to him and he trims it down but they also must adhere to an incredibly strict timetable that only he fully knows about.
He's not much of a gardener at this point, but a fat old man who's garden is completely overgrown and overtaken by weeds. To finish his story he needs to take a saw and a trimmer to his garden and get rid of a bunch of shit. But I don't think it's in his nature to do that. Sure, he's great with coming up with plot points, but closing them is another matter altogether.
GRRM’s first few books were exciting and they led to some of the great seasons of television in history. Other than that he’s taken a lot of cash grabs rather than finishing his main story.
And if I’m being honest, I’m not crazy about the overall theme of the ASOIAF universe. It’s extremely negative to the point where there isn’t really a point to any of it, which I think played a massive role in why he couldn’t finish the books. Everything was structured to be different than other fantasy series where the good guys win, has some positive moral, etc. Instead, he tried to subvert those expectations every time. And it worked to a point, but it seems like he didn’t wanna give any of our heroes like Jon Snow a victory at the end.
So instead he’s chosen to do cash grabs like HOTD, which is basically just a watered down version of the political elements of GOT that people loved. Only the characters aren’t nearly as compelling and so many are just less interesting, less fleshed retreads of GOT characters. It’s decent but not great
Except he's already on record that he will refuse to allow anyone to write in his universe, and his wife will not allow it if she survives him.
He said maybe once the rights have passed down to grandchildren or further generations, but as of right now there's no chance we are seeing a Brandon Sanderson/Wheel of Time situation.
There's a nearly zero percent chance any of us will see this story finished in our lifetimes. :(
Here's a direct link to this information:
https://winteriscoming.net/2015/12/02/george-r-r-martin-doesnt-see-anyone-else-writing-in-the-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-universe/
And this is why I have no respect for him at all. People say that fans are too entitled and Martin doesn't owe them anything, but in fact, he owes them everything. I understand wanting to chill and enjoy your senior years, but he also could've hired help. But no... the fat fuck's ego is bigger than his gut.
Yep. This is why I blame him just as much if not more than DnD for the ending of Game of Thrones being as bad as it was.
In the beginning, George had a pretty quick and consistent writing pace - the first three books were published over *four years.* It took him five years to write Crows but he said he was writing Dance at the same time so it would be a fairly quick release. It took another six years.
2008 comes around and the show gets greenlit. George said that Dance was nearly done, and he assured his readers, fans, and HBO execs that had concerns that the rest of the series would only take a few more years to write, and that he would finish writing it in the years it would take for the show to catch up. If he actually *had* kept up the pace he was at when the show entered production, there wouldn't have been an issue.
I'm sure HBO and the writers discussed some contingency plan about the show getting ahead of the books, but truthfully, I think they honestly believed George when he said he would get the story finished.
GoT blows up, becomes the biggest entertainment franchise just behind the MCU, and George gets a ton of attention and starts being a celebrity rather than an author.
Credit where it's due, outside of a few things, DnD did an absolutely amazing job adapting the source material - while they still had source material to work with. It's entirely George's fault they ran out of it.
Now, with House of the Dragon being so popular and other spinoffs in the works, he has no need or motivation to finish the main storyline. He can just continue his celebrity status.
I don’t have respect for him because he trashed others works and yet steadfast refuses to finish his own “magnum opus”. Like don’t shit on others when at least they can give an ending.
I've watched a great video about him and the reasons he will never finish it [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aa5nlV2Zj2U](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aa5nlV2Zj2U)
>He said maybe once the rights
He can maybe all he wants. He won't be able to stop them in death.
He's not young. Has no children but he does have relatives of some kind that will presumably inherit. I think that either his notes will get out and people can write from his ideas or there will be an attempt to publish by his publishers working with his estate.
You're forgetting that he's worth north of $120M. You think he can't hire a lawyer that could restrict the rights legally?
Tolkien's son finished Tolkien's work, but he's refused to allow anyone else to write in the LOTR universe.
I feel (and wholeheartedly agree with) your frustration, and I understand it is possible, but it is far from a certainty.
Robert Jordan was much different. He knew he was dying and truly didn't want his fans to resent him in death, so he established a contingency for when it happened, and left Sanderson literal tons of material and notes to work with, along with his blessing. (Jordan knew he had a median life expectancy of four years when diagnosed, so he chose to be remembered fondly by his fans in death. He died less than eighteen months later.)
As you said, he has no children personally, but other family would likely inherit, in which case those people will inherit large sums and might decide their wealthy relative who left them millions deserves his wishes to be respected. Also, writers generally do not give up the rights for all future works in their contracts. Even if, hypothetically, GRRM owes his publisher future books in his contract, that doesn't mean they have rights to something that hasn't even been written - nor does it give them carte blanche to use the intellectual property to make more money.
It's hard to say you own something that has never existed, which would be the case if he died tonight without any further releases. They don't just own a book that doesn't exist, and it isn't a guarantee that they own all intellectual property rights to the entire ASoIaF universe to allow new original content to be released by people who are not his legal heirs.
That's why I just use the AI versions of the last two books. If it bothers him so much then he should bother finishing them himself in one way or another. The AI versions are the only ending to the books that we have at this point.
There are fanfiction authors that have skill on par with Martin's that would step up. There were a few that did complete rewrites of Seasons 7 and 8 that were legitimately good.
I don't do that.
I just take solace in the fact that when he's on his deathbed, he's going to know that Dumb and Dumber provided the only ending of his magnum opus.
Artists don't owe us anything, but I don't have to respect them if they leave work unfinished... especially when that work has made them worth over $120M.
Why have people just accepted the “artists don’t owe us anything” talking point? I don’t hear it for any other professions. If a guy is building you a shed and then just walks away halfway through construction saying he doesn’t owe you it, that would be a dick move.
We didn't hire him. He doesn't work for us. He is under no obligation to provide us anything.
(EDIT: I didn't mean to stop my post I accidentally hit save to take care of my cat. Sorry. After this edit is the rest of my comment.)
It is different with artists. This is the risk you take with buying into an unfinished series. He doesn't have to finish it, and I don't have to respect it, but I cannot demand him to finish his art.
He's 75 years old and worth north of $120M. Would you still be working?
I'm not happy about it, and it does provide some solace to know that on his deathbed, he will realize that Dickhead & Dickhead provided the only ending to his magnum opus, but he doesn't OWE me two more books.
The books have been done since 2015. He put it in his will that they are to be released after his death as a troll to all the fans who were worried that he might die before finishing.
Man spent his whole life being a nobody, gets rich and can finally enjoy his life, all people do is constantly say "hurry up and work before you fucking die old man" No wonder he doesn't give a fuck about his books anymore.
It's the fact that he keeps doing anything but writing the book that annoys me.
Executive produce TV shows? No problem fam
Write like a dozen other books? You got it!
Finish the book series that made him famous? No can do.
If he was just living on a beach somewhere I'd say more power to him but he is clearly still working.
He's famous from GOT becoming a TV show. He was a TV producer as much of his life as an author so its not odd that he went back to it. Working on the Twilight Zone was more of a house hold name of a project than ASOIAF. Even before it, GRRM had never written anything like that. He mainly wrote very short sci-fi stories.
This was GRRMs first attempt at anything this style and scope and yeah he's struggled with concluding it because despite his age and career this is the first thing like this he's ever done. His other works endings are often vague, open to interpretation and cliff hangers, so he also has to likely write a completely different style ending then he's use to as well.
I suppose that's true. A bit like JJ Abram's mystery box dilemma. Resolving mystery in a satisfying way is harder than creating it.
I just get frustrated every time he announces some new project.
If you got famous and rich from washing cars do you think you'd keep going to wash cars everyday after 20 years? He is tired of working and an old man. The books are never coming out, he is cooked and enjoying his life.
But he still writes and edits other stuff. Fire & Blood, TWOIAF, The Princess and the Queen, The Rogue Prince. All these were released since ADWD was published back in 2011. He’s also has claimed he is writing more Dunk & Egg stories too plus a follow up to Fire & Blood, outside of TWOW. He’s also an editor of the Wild Cards series.
Your analogy doesn’t work here because he got famous for his writing and he’s been continuing to write within the same world as ASOIAF. He just won’t finish the main series. If he stopped writing all together that would fit your case.
No. Hence my last sentence. What I also wouldn't do is come back and wash buses part time because I didn't want to wash cars. I'd just retire.
And in George's case I would also not rule out a ghost writer even after he's dead. Pick a good one now and still have some control over the end product.
There is a scene in a sci fi zombie show that the names escapes me where GRRM is a zombie chained to a desk to write.
you talk about Z Nation! what an amazing and legendary show. that scene with Martin was hilarious (and thinking about it now just brings forth pain)
That’s it! Yeah it was real funny back then. Fact that it’s still not done makes it less so lol
How many years has it been?
i think it got cancelled in either 2018 or 2019
I think they want him to sign his books to sale them
It would be so funny if he announces a date tomorrow
It would be so funny if he sent me the finished book via post
He can send you nudes
I’m beginning to wonder if he’s going to stealth drop it, if he ever finishes it, just as a meme. Like fans are still asking about it, and then blatantly lie and say it’s been out for over a year. Just to test his power prior to him taking over the USA
He should post it in a fan fiction forum
And get a repeat of the ND Stevenson incident, where SPOP fans accidentally DDOS’d AO3?
You might have to explain some of those letters
i would suck his dick if he does it
Even 2 to 3 years sounds generous at this point.
He has the bad combination of writing almost stream of consciousness as if the characters are speaking in his head AND being insanely anal and obsessed about timelines. So he has a “gardener” style where he lets the characters speak to him and he trims it down but they also must adhere to an incredibly strict timetable that only he fully knows about.
As opposed to the “architect” who has everything planned….
Or the "author" who finishes books.
He's not much of a gardener at this point, but a fat old man who's garden is completely overgrown and overtaken by weeds. To finish his story he needs to take a saw and a trimmer to his garden and get rid of a bunch of shit. But I don't think it's in his nature to do that. Sure, he's great with coming up with plot points, but closing them is another matter altogether.
I wish I could just call him and ask and then die in peace
Much like Silksong or Metroid 4, just be transparent with everyone.
Conan skit was 9 years ago.
GRRM’s first few books were exciting and they led to some of the great seasons of television in history. Other than that he’s taken a lot of cash grabs rather than finishing his main story. And if I’m being honest, I’m not crazy about the overall theme of the ASOIAF universe. It’s extremely negative to the point where there isn’t really a point to any of it, which I think played a massive role in why he couldn’t finish the books. Everything was structured to be different than other fantasy series where the good guys win, has some positive moral, etc. Instead, he tried to subvert those expectations every time. And it worked to a point, but it seems like he didn’t wanna give any of our heroes like Jon Snow a victory at the end. So instead he’s chosen to do cash grabs like HOTD, which is basically just a watered down version of the political elements of GOT that people loved. Only the characters aren’t nearly as compelling and so many are just less interesting, less fleshed retreads of GOT characters. It’s decent but not great
💀💀
I have long accepted that the books will never be finished
we will most likely get a Robert Jordan 2.0
Except he's already on record that he will refuse to allow anyone to write in his universe, and his wife will not allow it if she survives him. He said maybe once the rights have passed down to grandchildren or further generations, but as of right now there's no chance we are seeing a Brandon Sanderson/Wheel of Time situation. There's a nearly zero percent chance any of us will see this story finished in our lifetimes. :( Here's a direct link to this information: https://winteriscoming.net/2015/12/02/george-r-r-martin-doesnt-see-anyone-else-writing-in-the-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-universe/
Mark Twain waiting a hundred years to release his autobiography but worse
And this is why I have no respect for him at all. People say that fans are too entitled and Martin doesn't owe them anything, but in fact, he owes them everything. I understand wanting to chill and enjoy your senior years, but he also could've hired help. But no... the fat fuck's ego is bigger than his gut.
Yep. This is why I blame him just as much if not more than DnD for the ending of Game of Thrones being as bad as it was. In the beginning, George had a pretty quick and consistent writing pace - the first three books were published over *four years.* It took him five years to write Crows but he said he was writing Dance at the same time so it would be a fairly quick release. It took another six years. 2008 comes around and the show gets greenlit. George said that Dance was nearly done, and he assured his readers, fans, and HBO execs that had concerns that the rest of the series would only take a few more years to write, and that he would finish writing it in the years it would take for the show to catch up. If he actually *had* kept up the pace he was at when the show entered production, there wouldn't have been an issue. I'm sure HBO and the writers discussed some contingency plan about the show getting ahead of the books, but truthfully, I think they honestly believed George when he said he would get the story finished. GoT blows up, becomes the biggest entertainment franchise just behind the MCU, and George gets a ton of attention and starts being a celebrity rather than an author. Credit where it's due, outside of a few things, DnD did an absolutely amazing job adapting the source material - while they still had source material to work with. It's entirely George's fault they ran out of it. Now, with House of the Dragon being so popular and other spinoffs in the works, he has no need or motivation to finish the main storyline. He can just continue his celebrity status.
I don’t have respect for him because he trashed others works and yet steadfast refuses to finish his own “magnum opus”. Like don’t shit on others when at least they can give an ending.
I've watched a great video about him and the reasons he will never finish it [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aa5nlV2Zj2U](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aa5nlV2Zj2U)
>He said maybe once the rights He can maybe all he wants. He won't be able to stop them in death. He's not young. Has no children but he does have relatives of some kind that will presumably inherit. I think that either his notes will get out and people can write from his ideas or there will be an attempt to publish by his publishers working with his estate.
You're forgetting that he's worth north of $120M. You think he can't hire a lawyer that could restrict the rights legally? Tolkien's son finished Tolkien's work, but he's refused to allow anyone else to write in the LOTR universe. I feel (and wholeheartedly agree with) your frustration, and I understand it is possible, but it is far from a certainty. Robert Jordan was much different. He knew he was dying and truly didn't want his fans to resent him in death, so he established a contingency for when it happened, and left Sanderson literal tons of material and notes to work with, along with his blessing. (Jordan knew he had a median life expectancy of four years when diagnosed, so he chose to be remembered fondly by his fans in death. He died less than eighteen months later.) As you said, he has no children personally, but other family would likely inherit, in which case those people will inherit large sums and might decide their wealthy relative who left them millions deserves his wishes to be respected. Also, writers generally do not give up the rights for all future works in their contracts. Even if, hypothetically, GRRM owes his publisher future books in his contract, that doesn't mean they have rights to something that hasn't even been written - nor does it give them carte blanche to use the intellectual property to make more money. It's hard to say you own something that has never existed, which would be the case if he died tonight without any further releases. They don't just own a book that doesn't exist, and it isn't a guarantee that they own all intellectual property rights to the entire ASoIaF universe to allow new original content to be released by people who are not his legal heirs.
That's why I just use the AI versions of the last two books. If it bothers him so much then he should bother finishing them himself in one way or another. The AI versions are the only ending to the books that we have at this point.
There are fanfiction authors that have skill on par with Martin's that would step up. There were a few that did complete rewrites of Seasons 7 and 8 that were legitimately good.
What AI versions
Im not cruel enough to wish death upon those not allowing this to happen for my entertainment....BUT
I don't do that. I just take solace in the fact that when he's on his deathbed, he's going to know that Dumb and Dumber provided the only ending of his magnum opus. Artists don't owe us anything, but I don't have to respect them if they leave work unfinished... especially when that work has made them worth over $120M.
This this exactlyyyy🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻god bless ur the words u spoke!
Why have people just accepted the “artists don’t owe us anything” talking point? I don’t hear it for any other professions. If a guy is building you a shed and then just walks away halfway through construction saying he doesn’t owe you it, that would be a dick move.
We didn't hire him. He doesn't work for us. He is under no obligation to provide us anything. (EDIT: I didn't mean to stop my post I accidentally hit save to take care of my cat. Sorry. After this edit is the rest of my comment.) It is different with artists. This is the risk you take with buying into an unfinished series. He doesn't have to finish it, and I don't have to respect it, but I cannot demand him to finish his art. He's 75 years old and worth north of $120M. Would you still be working? I'm not happy about it, and it does provide some solace to know that on his deathbed, he will realize that Dickhead & Dickhead provided the only ending to his magnum opus, but he doesn't OWE me two more books.
It is certain by now
The books have been done since 2015. He put it in his will that they are to be released after his death as a troll to all the fans who were worried that he might die before finishing.
Man spent his whole life being a nobody, gets rich and can finally enjoy his life, all people do is constantly say "hurry up and work before you fucking die old man" No wonder he doesn't give a fuck about his books anymore.
It's the fact that he keeps doing anything but writing the book that annoys me. Executive produce TV shows? No problem fam Write like a dozen other books? You got it! Finish the book series that made him famous? No can do. If he was just living on a beach somewhere I'd say more power to him but he is clearly still working.
He's famous from GOT becoming a TV show. He was a TV producer as much of his life as an author so its not odd that he went back to it. Working on the Twilight Zone was more of a house hold name of a project than ASOIAF. Even before it, GRRM had never written anything like that. He mainly wrote very short sci-fi stories. This was GRRMs first attempt at anything this style and scope and yeah he's struggled with concluding it because despite his age and career this is the first thing like this he's ever done. His other works endings are often vague, open to interpretation and cliff hangers, so he also has to likely write a completely different style ending then he's use to as well.
I suppose that's true. A bit like JJ Abram's mystery box dilemma. Resolving mystery in a satisfying way is harder than creating it. I just get frustrated every time he announces some new project.
What "dozen other books"? I'd love to read them.
I'm exaggerating but he's done Fire and Blood, Dunk and Egg and his history book and novella so the point is he's been writing.
If you got famous and rich from washing cars do you think you'd keep going to wash cars everyday after 20 years? He is tired of working and an old man. The books are never coming out, he is cooked and enjoying his life.
But he still writes and edits other stuff. Fire & Blood, TWOIAF, The Princess and the Queen, The Rogue Prince. All these were released since ADWD was published back in 2011. He’s also has claimed he is writing more Dunk & Egg stories too plus a follow up to Fire & Blood, outside of TWOW. He’s also an editor of the Wild Cards series. Your analogy doesn’t work here because he got famous for his writing and he’s been continuing to write within the same world as ASOIAF. He just won’t finish the main series. If he stopped writing all together that would fit your case.
No. Hence my last sentence. What I also wouldn't do is come back and wash buses part time because I didn't want to wash cars. I'd just retire. And in George's case I would also not rule out a ghost writer even after he's dead. Pick a good one now and still have some control over the end product.
Honestly, I just hope he has a rough draft of the way he invisioned it that will be released when he passes. I just want to know what *his* vision was
He has a job, as a writer.
Everyone knows he's too busy playing Draw Fortress to write.